Bowsite.com

So she starts declaring all public lands are stolen lands from the Indians ohhh private land too....in our PC environment who will call her out... Nobody will.

When I first became aware of the green new deal I thought it was from the Onion ..this has to be parody...nope they are that dumb

To teach him a lesson, people voted in folks with terrible policies who are arrogant jerks that sometimes pretend not be.

It makes perfect sense to some. Given the options, I was fine with the arrogant jerk who's policy moves I agreed with.

Sorry for the language but I’m sick of it.

You couldn't even weave in a White Claw reference? Would have been too easy to tie it all together. ;-)

One thing is for sure, Life won’t always be ok if the average American is too dumb and lazy to neglect responsibility of electing people who have the best interest of America in mind. Joe Biden ain’t that guy. And, this nomination is proof of it.

That depends on whether it's more of recycled talking points that someone else created or if you're actually going to post proof that you're capable of original thought and some critical thinking.

Given your limited history I'd say the former is all you've got offer and frankly, I just as soon pass; regurgitation, while having a vital role in the avian community has no appeal to me in discussion.

"Have a nice day."

Every day above ground is a nice day; I get to marvel at the beauty of a god that can create spectacular wonders along with run-of-the-mill mediocrities who imagine themselves exponentially more intelligent than their works indicate.

Have a nice day with your fellow mediocrities.

If you don't understand that, you deserve what we are about to get.

If you’re going to call me out at least have a good foundation to do so. Go back to high school and learn to read.

Matt

To paraphrase Leon Trotsky, who was also a "democratic socialist", "You may not be interested in politics, but politics is very interested in you"

He could talk to a few on bowsite maybe get some pointers on lowering the male testosterone level.

The “Journalists” can all go back to sleep.

The sleazy politicians are all oozing back into Washington.

The mere commoner peasant has been defeated. How dare someone from the public think they can come out of nowhere, to be President. without whoring themselves for 40 years first.

Everything can get back to “Normal”. People that have never worked a day in their life getting rich from deals with Iran and China. Joe Biden started out 47 years ago at around 30k per year. Maxed out at what, 180k per year. But yet some how has 3 mansions. And flys everywhere on private jets while lecturing us on global warming. The Swamp is back!

Stix for the win again.

By the way, this thread reminded me that it’s time to renew my BHA membership.

Adventurewriter- nice straw man. The only valid point I see on this thread is Stix and GG. It would be a great improvement to see more truth here and in politics. It’s would sure beat most those idiotic memes.

That can’t be argued. Though I am sure it will be. Nor can the irony that the “non political” BHA finds great support in her nomination. National is nothing more then a political tool. I don’t care who’s the members are or who says different. That’s what they’ve proven to be. Over and over again.

I’m just excited to hear the next 4 years of public land scares the average BHA member is going preach since the office of choice for their club, now has the reins. BHA cronies talk about scare tactics of the conservative. Well get ready, even though we are finishing up a 4 year term with the most public land friendly, pro hunter the White House has seen in a half a century or more, we are going to get to hear all the bad they can scare up if the dems don’t win the senate.

From the OP.

“As in every debate, liberals or master debaters like to change the topic to fit a narrative.“

Who’s changing the topic?

This woman is so left-leaning that she can't see the middle. Rather than doing the research for you, study her core values of "Envitonmental Justice". She co-sponsored the "Thirty by Thirty" initiative, as well as the Green New Deal. She is in favor of choking public lands with gigantic wind and solar farms. You can bet your bottom dollar she will relist wolves.

Name one thing progressives have done to benefit hunting in the past 30 years, besides locking the public out of public lands all over the West by abuse of the Antiquities Act. You can bet your house she will convince Biden to take that to levels never seen before, even worse than Obama.

She will also overturn the ruling that allowed the State of Alaska to manage predators as the biologists see fit.

The fact that Backcountry Hikers and Anglers is so excited about her nomination raises red flags, as well. They hate Trump, hated his nominees, had to grudgingly give him a sliver of credit for finalizing the LWCF, which Obama wouldn't do.

Otherwise, she will be a GREAT choice! Can't wait for the confirmation hearings!

Haha sounds like every fish and game department in the nation. Wink wink

Thanks for the clarification that it was just a presumption.

Merry Christmas everyone.

“ Environmental justice is the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people, regardless of race, color, national origin, or income, with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies. Fair treatment means that no population bears a disproportionate share of negative environmental consequences resulting from industrial, municipal, and commercial operations or from the execution of federal, state, and local laws; regulations; and policies.”

The federal government has been doing environmental justice reviews as a part of the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) since 1994. It’s has been federal policy for over 25 years.

Perhaps it’s called deductive reasoning.

Actually this isn't true; Associate Justices Alito and Thomas were in favor of hearing the TX lawsuit the other justices were opposed. I know, it's a moot point in the grand scheme of things but it's embarrassing when (rightly or wrongly) you reference respondents IQ's and post something inaccurate.

"That's why the Trumplicans lost their court cases." I'd suggest checking into how many cases were lost on policy versus merit; this one's not a moot point as the distinction is significant. On a personal note I find the term "Trumplicans" to be as valueless to any discussion as "libtards" or any other juvenile sobriquet; why anyone would feel any such term fosters effective communication is beyond me.

Now to the actual question of the day; I don't see any glaring threat to hunting, just a few caution signs, one that immediately springs up is her position on gun control. When the conversation moves towards "assault weapon" bans, magazine restrictions , etc I see her as another potential voice in the Biden choir that would attempt to put onerous taxes on firearms and ammunition to place burdens on sportsmen that do nothing to promote public safety.

Her stance on stripping the power of the NRA are also hypocritical given the vast reservoirs of funding her colleagues have no trouble accepting contributions from. If you feel there's too much money in political campaigns then be consistent and push for universal, not targeted reform.

I can see where some of her positions, if they were to become law could be detrimental, but not just to sportsmen; moving away from fossil fuels is likely to lead to higher prices and a push for a national $15 minimum wage will also add to the cost of doing business which of course is passed onto the consumer. As these impacts would be universal it's hard to feel singled out as a sportsman; we'd all be in the same boat.

Environmental justice became federal policy by executive order. It could be removed with one. There a reason why no president (including Trump) has rescinded the order. It’s not figure out why.

You don’t like the DOI nominee and you have your reasons. I see your logic but environmental justice isn’t what you claim it is regarding federal policy.

And oh yeah, your not forced to read any thread on this site. If you don’t like a thread don’t click on it. Your job to have self control (another character trait most Democrats lack).

Stix, I detailed the expected impacts based upon her leftist philosophies in posts above. Why don't you describe for us how she will be GOOD for hunting. Let's start there.

Words mean nothing. She could give a hundred speeches on how awesome hunters and hunting was, completely meaningless. Actions. What has this lady signed onto in the past? Her actual voting record. What was her stance on wolves, delisting... guessing you guys will be holding your breath wondering her stance on grizzly delisting. Did she support national monument listing (antiquities act. see: loss of public hunting land and public input) States rights on wildlife and land management, etc. For me just the Green New Deal is enough. That's a deal breaker. Big time. But go ahead and try to argue she will be good for sportsmen and hunters. Maybe you also think Betto will be great for gun owners and the 2nd..... I mean, he hasn't done anything YET against us......

One of the things I liked about Trump. He'd tell you what he was thinking, like it or not. Not what he thought you wanted to hear, he really didn't care. Called the media what they are. Called out a good many of the swampy public sector who worked for themselves, entrench themselves and their careers, not for the good of the actual public, much less for the county. The enemies of the people. Hurt their lil' feewings he did.....Swamp was getting drained, on their way out..... and now Biden is just filling it right back up with the very people made it a swamp.

Cankles for SOS! I mean...... what has she actually done to hurt us.... well, lately.....

Stix, the public land transfer scare is another straw man. Trump was against it as well, but that didn't stop your Backcountry Hikers from vilifying him and his appointments.

Once again, I will advise all of you to watch Michael Moore's excellent documentary, Planet of the Humans if you care about the damage her public lands energy policy will do to wildlands amd wildlife under the guise of "saving the earth".

I’m just waiting to see the police defunded. I fully expect to see a game of cowboys and liberals break out. It will be the Wild Wild West all over again

"The administration’s critics could not point to any major sales of federal lands to outside entities in the 19 months since the Republican took office. Interior Department spokeswoman Molly Block said two of Pendley’s initial acts involved land acquisitions, not sales: the first piece of a planned 20.3-square-mile (52.6-square-kilometer) purchase near Montana’s Lower Blackfoot River and 17.4 square miles (45.1 square kilometers) along Oregon's John Day River.

Pendley's nomination wasn't "pulled". An Obama-appointed liberal judge ruled to remove him. Another hole in the narrative.

The day Haasland says her former positions are irrelevant on the Green New Deal, Climate Justice, 30 by 30, construction of massive solar and wind farms and thousands of miles of transmission lines on our precious public lands, is the day I will buy a life membership to BHA. Deal?

Dated a woman who was a Manager for windmills power and such once I got to know her better she explained EVERYONE in the know knows they use way more power to create and run and install than they create. So I said what are they good for She smiled and said...it makes people feel better... A classics Dem move if it doesn't work double and triple down on it

“Researchers have carried out an environmental lifecycle assessment of 2-megawatt wind turbines mooted for a large wind farm in the U.S. Pacific Northwest. They conclude that in terms of cumulative energy payback, or the time to produce the amount of energy required of production and installation, a wind turbine with a working life of 20 years will offer a net benefit within five to eight months of being brought online.”

"In two papers — published in the journals Environmental Research Letters and Joule — Harvard University researchers find that the transition to wind or solar power in the U.S. would require five to 20 times more land than previously thought, and, if such large-scale wind farms were built, would warm average surface temperatures over the continental U.S. by 0.24 degrees Celsius."

"For wind, we found that the average power density — meaning the rate of energy generation divided by the encompassing area of the wind plant — was up to 100 times lower than estimates by some leading energy experts,” said Miller, who is the first author of both papers. “Most of these estimates failed to consider the turbine-atmosphere interaction. For an isolated wind turbine, interactions are not important at all, but once the wind farms are more than five to 10 kilometers deep, these interactions have a major impact on the power density.”

This is fun!

Have you watched Michael Moore’s Bowling for Columbine documentary? Do you believe everything in that movie about guns? There a pattern with Michael Moore that requires some healthy skepticism no matter what he produces.

The amount of energy that goes into building a wind tower is very high. I have seen studies where it’s bigger then coal or natural gas plants.

I build wind farms for a living. I know first hand the amount of energy it takes to erect a wind farm. I get a kick out of the anti oil crowd but there pro wind. We are wrapping up a project in Michigan as I type this. To ship out equipment and materials used to build this wind farm we are up to 408 semi loads.

I don’t want to see wind turbines on public land. However on private land I believe in private land owner rights whether I like the view or not.

The one site I helped develop it took us a couple years to get things hashed out and dialed in for construction. We had to take into account wind turbulence, environmental and non participating land owners and there wind rights.

We would have chaos if the green new deal went through. Manufactures can not keep up now with what is being built. Experienced help is spread very thin as well. I see it in the manufacture site teams and there lack of knowledge. I find it funny that a contractor has to tell the supplier how to build there tower.

For wind it is true that they are spread out. However, if you look at the land use within the wind farm they only convert 1-2% of the land for turbine pads and access roads. I don’t have a source link for this but I’ve done the calculations myself on over 50 wind projects in the U.S. Why do you think ranchers and farmers even entertain wind projects? They get paid and they lose little in the way of ranching and farming. Yes, that is not possible with solar. Which relates to your second point. Why do you think they spread the turbines out. To prevent air disturbance interaction to maximize efficiency. There are engineers and meteorologists that specialize in this. Every wind company pays close attention to turbine efficiencies.

Wind turbines causing global temperature increases vs fossil fuel estimates. 0.24...I’ll take it. If 0.24 is even correct. See link.

Oh that’s right...you all believe burning fossil fuels has no effect. I hate to break it to you but there will always be an effect when it comes to energy production. Renewables have less of an overall impact and help conserve our fossil fuel reserves. And they are getting more efficient and cheaper every year.

I think one thing all hunters can agree on is that we don't want to see millions of acres of public land spoiled by massive wind farms, gigantic solar farms, and mazes of new transmission lines. Which is why I'm puzzled by hunters who vote for someone who promises to do exactly that..

And Forbes is not a left wing source.

Some of the new turbines we are building kick out over 4 megawatts per turbine. So you have a site road that is 16’ wide and a pedestal with a beauty ring consisting of a 45’ circle. That is a long ways from consuming 15 to 20 acres of land for a single turbine that can almost produce the same amount of energy.

But back to the original theme of my post. If every major anti-hunting organization and AOC are "over the moon!" with her appointment, then I guess she's an awesome choice! You lefties can put a poster of her on the ceiling over your beds and go to sleep knowing she's looking out for our best interests.

That photo says or doesn’t say much of anything since the source does not say anything about it. Is it from the U.S.? Did a tornado hit it? Was it abandoned and left to rot? Who knows?

I do know that wind turbines pay for themselves quickly compared to the life of the turbine. That’s an easily provable fact and it’s in the numbers.

Here is another credible source for you.

BTW, there are several companies developing ways to recycle or re-purpose the fiberglass wind turbine blades. See link.

Matt

Technology in today’s wind towers is night and day different from 20 years ago.

Blade lifespan has grown considerably over the years. Performing maintenance every other year goes a long ways in trying to get 30 years out of a set of blades. One of the hardest things on blades is lightning.

The tower itself can stand considerably longer then the nacelle, hub and blades. There is a lot of repower going on in our country at this time. Basically remove the rotor and nacelle. Install new updated units and there good to go.

The blades, which make up about 10 percent of a wind turbine’s total material, are made of fiberglass, a tricky material that can’t be recycled or easily repurposed."

Just got off the phone with a client in Calgary

Please document your trip today while traveling to BC. Especially the Canadian customs part

LMAO. you Libs are ALL the same.

Matt

How many liberal judges have stopped legal hunting in a given state? How many conservative judges? Everything that is bad in this country comes from a liberal activist court. Expecting that that will change under Biden is idiocy.

Stix, that has to be the saddest thing I've heard a hunter say all year.

We've been so conditioned to hate oil that we refuse to acknowledge the life changing benefits it has given us. In contrast, we've been so conditioned to believe that wind and solar are the answer that we refuse to acknowledge the failings of that industry.

One well sight can have as many as 64 gas wells on one location (probably more). A footprint about the same size as one wind generator. An entire wind farm is an environmental catastrophe.

Fossil fuel emissions are a problem but they are not the end of the world. Every second of every day that we live is made better by the cheap energy we get from fossil fuels. Look around, we live in the cleanest, safest, healthiest environment in the history of mankind. Why? Fossil fuels.

First, The border is closed for non-essential travel, but open if you or your spouse have family in Canada. I believe the person traveling here mentioned something about family.

Second, even with all the talk of gun confiscation etc. up here, you can still buy ammo at any local sporting goods store that sells it. I have never seen such fear that the shelves are wiped clean by mindless people who have OCD and panic. Up here, clear minds prevail.

Third, and I admit I don't have all the details, the backcountry hunters sent out emails to all their followers asking for testimony and email writing campaigns to stop the spring bear hunt initiatives in a couple of provinces. It was successful, as they were dropped in the various ministries due to the public response.That's the way the backcountry hunters work, boots on the ground, grassroots campaigns.

I cannot believe that some folks would let one conniving man as your president, be the catalyst for such vitriol, and aggressiveness towards brother sportsmen. You folks should be ashamed of yourselves.

I am going to post this on the other thread also, since people seem to be going back and forth. I am so glad my work transferred me up here, living in peace of mind, not fear and panic.

The world is laughing at you.

There is another word for willful ignorance.

Retraction: Between adventurewriter’s ex-girlfriend, Old School’s “locals”, Rupe, now bb’s wind turbine techs it’s settled. Wind turbines don’t pay for themselves and don’t have a net positive energy production. I was totally misled by science, engineering, accounting, mathematics, and investment returns.

Carry on

Yeah it’s “Ksflatlander”

Good stuff though

And not one of you can dispute what I said with any credible information.

RK, Rupe, bb please post a credible source that shows that today’s wind turbines do not pay for themselves and are not net energy producers. No straw man arguments or opinion pieces from fake right wing news. A peered reviewed scientific article that states that I’m wrong. Plainly, back up your statements to the contrary.

I do love though, when the FREEDOOOOOOM crowd says any and all regulation on capitalistic strategies are bad... But then says solar/wind/green energy production is horrible and shouldnt happen and any miss-step shows it's stoopud. There is a fix, think with foresight, plan, regulate while also encouraging new technology and deploy it responsibly.

But that requires regulation (BAD), new technology (BAD), independent oversight - aka, actual experts likely government funded (BAD - both oversight, and experts).

It's funny, we have a guy on the board with DECADES of work in the field, dealing with issues directly related to the OP's topic and later in the thread the off shoots of green energy etc, and the idea is that he's only purveying BS because it's not party line... Denial of expertise is a legit issue in the US today.

Trump would like Sydney Powell appointed SP to look at the election?

Trump was advised by Flynn and others to consider Marshall Law and told its not that big of a deal?

Trump was advised to consider federally confiscating the Dominion voting machines in states he lost?

If any of this is true, I hope you freedom loving small government guys reject it forcefully.

Will, I think you are on to something about rejection of science, whether that be COVID or energy etc. OTH, I am not in favor of government incentives favoring one industry over another. Investors should be forced to look at the long run, if the return is not there, tough.

Prove the cost of carbon emissions, tax the spillovers and then let all alternative sources of energy compete on an equal footing...no incentives to build, operate or tear down competing structures. The market is much better than government in figuring these things out IMO.

I do t know the return on wind farms or solar fields. I do know that they aren’t what the Democratic Party makes them out to be. And, I too believe we need progress and innovation in alternative power sources. I think everybody agrees with that.

What’s not agreeable is doing so at the cost of the tax payer. What’s not acceptable is partisan BS in order to handicap free markets in order to progress it. And, what’s not acceptable is spreading lies as the Green Party does, in order to brain wash people.

If wind farms were what some fought, there be no more fossil fuel energy. If solar was the same, it’d be the same. The problem most here and, anyone with an ounce of sense realizes, is fossil fuels are still the most affordable, efficient way to make power. And, it’s dumb to surrender our public access to an agenda contrary to best interest for all of America.

Never mind the horrific impact on our public lands, it HAS to be done and you all have to suffer because our religion - oops, I mean, "some" scientists who are grant funded to develop unproven models with predetermined outcomes by cherry-picking selective data have been used in the media narrative to scare half the country into believing that anthropogenesis is the ONLY cause of this particular warming cycle that graphs exactly like the past three nearly identical warming cycles, and if we all don't agree to play this unbelievably expensive and explosively disruptive game, civilization as we know it will end in 30 years.

I agree. So, can I assume you were also against the taxpayers subsidizing the oil and gas industry for decades, and continue to do so? The amount of subsidies we've paid for renewable energy pales in comparison based on annual averages over time.

Matt

I get that there are those that don’t think the government should incentivize one energy source over another. I believe it is acceptable to do so because we are on the clock. Energy is a part of national security and investment in alternative energy sources and ideas helps drive innovation. Yes, some ideas will crash and burn but there are some that are net positive and spawn other ideas. I think this is what Will was referring to. For National Security sack we better keep innovating and looking for ways to improve and conserve our energy sources. Societies that do will be in a better position than those that don’t.

We are all not still driving Model A’s but Henry Ford’s idea has led to competition and building upon his ideas. Cars a much cheaper and energy efficient than a Model A.

The alternative is to remain static and just keep relying of fossil fuels which we know without a doubt will get more expensive over time and eventually run out. Is there a long term energy solution out there...we don’t know unless we look for it and test ideas.

That’s not what I’m referring to. I’m referring to policy and regulations set up to limit fossil fuel procurement and development on government property to favor solar and wind. Let economics decide. Not politicians and their sponsors.

I'm talking subsidies in all forms. If you think oil and gas hasn't benefitted from favorable regulations on government property, you haven't been paying attention over the years, or you just ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Matt

I get that you are willing to allow government incentives because of "national security", but honestly, that excuse can be abused. Allowing for government incentives forces taxpays to pay for the bureaucracy that will be needed to manage those incentives.

A better way IMHO, is to use market incentives, i.e. zero capital gains taxes so when venture capitalists and others place "bets", when they hit home runs they keep it all. That will attract enough capital IMHO.

Of course, this will be attacked as a source of increased wealth disparity by the left, which is only a concern as we have moved away from meritocracy IMHO. Help those that can't help themselves, not anyone else. Tough Love!

Matt

From above: One way is that wind and solar bypass paying the state and directly pay landowners. Often times they pay fees to the local communities too. I’m not sure about payments to states or payments on public land.

Frank- you make a good point and I’m out of my depth on best way to incentivize innovation without picking winners or rewarding dead end ideas. We can chew that fat sometime over a beer. I would like to hear your take.

To be upfront, I’m also that someone that somebody knows so please please don’t simply rely on my word alone. Check it against credible sources.

The last project I did in Texas they payed landowners $4,500 per turbine and had a $1,500 increase every 5 years.

Depending on negotiations I have seen landowners get as much as $2,000 for just letting collection go through there land 5’ below the surface.

Feel free to PM me.

Please don't misunderstand me about believing my approach is the best way to incentivize innovation. Rather it was offered as it is consistent with my own personal belief that markets are the best approach for coordinating economic activity in general.

Recognizing nothing is perfect, government involvement should be minimized except in rare cases, such as market failure. My definition of market failure though would need something stronger than beer to convince you we don't need more regulation, LOL.

Where some of the more conservative folks would not have an affinity for my philosophy is sharing my belief that carbon based fuels do have spillovers, i.e. negative effects on the environment. (I grew up on the shores of Lake Erie remember? ) Spillovers, costs in this case, do allow for an entity to force payment for those spillovers. Typically government has been the only agency with power to do this, usually thru taxes...In this case a carbon tax, which you know is controversial.

I say this questioning my own beliefs as we have seen the miraculous "partnership", for lack of better terminology, between government and Big Business that resulted in a vaccine in record breaking time. So, not sure I can win any debate, but would consume enough Crown Royal to make it interesting.

With the cost of hardware, installation, infrastructure and the maintenance of all of that.... they are never going to be cost effective with the only offset of fuel and wear and tear. They are in use because of tax CREDITS as opposed to deductions and government MANDATES that force utilities to buy and use X amount of "renewable" energy from these systems.... an increasing amount every year.... but still must maintain full on demand systems for the real world when the sun goes down or the wind stops blowing. They are very much a "feel good" stopgap to when a real cost effective on demand replacement may come available.

It has been said above, that people resist them because they "don't like change" is demonstrably false. If you can show me such a system that is stand alone, on demand, more cost effective I will guarantee you it will take over in very short order, as pretty much ALL technology that show such advantages have done and will do in the future. Nothing on earth moves faster at such things than our system of freedoms and free enterprise. Nothing.

Right now it's not. It has some justified cost effective uses, such as off grid low volume personal use where conventional sources are not readily available. Even those normally require an evil fossil fuel generator for on demand back up. (A state of the art $5000 generator to back up a $20-30,000 system, go figure) If such fuels as hydrogen are developed for common use, they could be excellent for that type of production.... essentially a form of cost effective energy "storage" that doesn't currently exist.

One can make up many reasons (excuses?) for the use of "renewable" or "alternative" energy..... cost effective is not one. Not currently.

Interesting bringing up the forecast costs. Have any actually been accurate, much less under in their budgets for construction or maintenance? Or are overruns and, lets call it "optimism" more the rule?

I know our utility is mandated to purchase a certain percentage of "alternative" energy from producers. They had quite an aggressive campaign to get to that level or face fines. Private individuals could install systems and the company was required to purchase that power.... for a residence it essentially runs your meter in reverse, you don't get a check in the mail, but aren't charged for use if you produce more than you use. I have a 10KW system (largest that can be permitted on a residence, at least at the time. About 80 panels if I recall? Was over $20,000. But with tax credits, state and federal (public funded for essentially personal use) combined with the electric bill it covers ($700+ some peak months with fuel price adjustments), it made economic sense for us. I think we pay around $30 now as a base fee? We've produced more than we ever use since it was fired up. Couple more years of payments and it's paid for. Worked out well for us. But I'm not about to be hypocritcal and say it's some great success for everyone and for the solar companies it's bought a bunch of boats and put kids though college for sure. Ain't America great?

For the utility..... not so much. They are going under water with the program, no longer offering the buy back. You can install solar etc. but only supplement your actual use in real time. i.e. it can halt your meter at best, but not sell and bank the power, run it backwards. They were trying to sell the company a couple years ago..... but all buyers bailed out when courts ruled the potential new owners could not void the contracts (30 years I believe) with the utility. We are under contract. WE personally have benefited. The company..... yeah, not so much. The rest of their customers not so much. But it's playing out like this because it was a state mandate. Not because someone in the state said it would be cost effective, save anyone any money (don't forget the state and fed taxpayer money essentially funding a good deal of it) Or that the mandate was based on anything but WAGs.

And also take into account this is in an area it probably makes the greatest sense in the nation. We have to import ALL of our fuel. Electric rates are the highest in the nation last I looked, so it makes more economic sense where energy "necessarily skyrockets". Nearest to the equator so sun angles are best for all year round, and the weather.... well, we get a lot of sun in most places.

Also have had solar hot water since the 80s. That's a great system, relatively inexpensive and pays for itself quickly. I'm not an enemy of alternative energy. But honesty is required as to it's value and implementation, not unicorn farts, dreams and feelings. All "green" is not good, nor makes real economic sense. Some is, some isn't. Just as all hunting, fishing, gardening may or may not make economic sense, but in some cases it can and does. You'll get far more bang for your buck with a good job of sealing and insulating your home, etc and while not glamorous or as big a virtue signal as a Prius (Tesla?) is likely more cost effective and "green" dollar for dollar.

Hey, looky there we agree on nuclear...being a part of the energy solution that is.

Sincerely

the talking Donkey.

But... they can't really tell you how. Because, well, they don't know. The adaptable, economically feasible solution doesn't currently exist. They are banking on..... something, someone, somehow.... coming up with the magic technology to make it happen. Someday. Soon maybe. They may be right.... American ingenuity and tech.... something could happen and may not even involve solar or wind. Or not. But hey, those brave folks are willing to take that chance with..... well, with us.

Those contracts to purchase power are the reason the MECO sale blew up. New buyers (mainland utility companies) could not void the contracts. Bailed out as the numbers were then a hot mess. Writing on the wall was clear, they were gonna lose their azz.... see ya. So we are stuck with it once again.....

They also promised a mass transit rail system, construction of the 20 mile project started in2012 at a projected cost of 5 billion and was due to open in 2019. Awesome. As is, I don't believe a single mile is open, they are 10 billion over budget (set a record I hear for most over budget of any public project in the US) and are proposing to open in.... 2033. Runs on electric too I think......

Gotta love the Socialist Republic of Hawaii......

100% renewable by 2050 does not mean that there are no fossil fuel energy sources or products. It means the renewables have the capacity to supply enough electrons to power what we need. However, we must have a traditional power source to counter act renewables intermittency.

go ahead and use that bear spray,

I will be laughing at you.

If you actually think that's what happened, your IQ can't get much lower.

Matt

That is almost word for word how Tulsi Gabbard described the process when explaining why she voted against it.

As with most bills, this one was first introduced almost 2 years ago and has been revised and added to ever since. The final version was a collection of many smaller bills that our legislators have been working on for months. Every Congress member has a small army of hired staff to keep track of the progress of each piece of legislation that reaches the House and Senate floors.

To think that one of the largest bills of our nation's history was printed up the night before, and voted on without any knowledge of what's in it, shows complete ignorance of our legislative process.

Matt

Agreed. Along those same lines, how many sleepless nights do you think Trump spent reading every word of this bill, or any bill that he's signed? I'm betting he spent more time on Twitter.

Look, I'm not happy with the out of control Federal deficit spending, either. But, if you think Trump did anything to change that, you're sadly mistaken. Now, he's advocating to add to a bloated bill, without offering any real solutions to where that money should come from. Targeting foreign aid is nothing but a political ploy. They could eliminate all foreign aid, and it wouldn't scratch the surface of what he's proposing to add to the relief package on this bill.

Matt

He wants to more than triple the amount that goes to people who qualify for social subsidies.

Matt

In the meantime lose your hunting land to vast solar farms, and sight pollution with those stupid wind towers.

Don't forget who co-authored the New Green deal and who passed the Wild Lands Act.

The proof will be when we move forward into 2021 and beyond.

USA political history is full of "volatile politics",,, it isn't anything new

There's currently $166 billion in the bill for "direct checks" to qualifying recipients, also known as welfare. That's about $600 per person. Trump wants $2000 per person. So, the direct checks budget would have to climb to $553 billion. That's $387 billion more that he'll need to pull from some other budgets in the bill, or just add that amount to the overall bill.

Is that clear as mud?

Matt

Merry Christmas !!

FYI, the bill they are currently working on to increase the $600 checks to $2000 is in addition to the previously passed $900 billion relief bill. It adds over $400 billion to the overall number. So, yeah, I'll stick with what I said earlier.

Matt

OTH, my campus has built two new, energy efficient buildings that just opened two years ago. They use 20 percent less energy per volume to heat than our “conventional” structures and have a 20 year max payback even adjusting for time values of cash flow. Life expectancy is 100 years. Decisions like that I support.

When we built the home we live in now we did double wall construction and other reasonable efforts. Our home is very efficient and also super quiet. I think these are approaches that should be looked at from a cost/benefit analysis and undertake the ones that will provide positive net benefits.

Meaning if their dreams come true, hunting will be dramatically affected. Think Tesla pickups with ebikes in the back and charging stations at every trailhead. The good news is that nobody has to work to earn money, so we'll have lots of time to hunt! :-)

Too many think all people are only binary in their politics which is not true and will never be true. It’s just not that simple.

Rocky- I noticed you didn’t answer the question.

Right.

Remember what the swamp creatures did to Trumps Appointment. Retired Seal team six officer, Montana representative Ryan Zinke?

The same thing the corrupt POS did to anyone that came to town that wasn’t part of the oligarchy.

He resigned because he couldn’t afford to defend himself against all the environmental lobbyists behind furniture gate. And oh he was in a real estate deal in Montana.

All while Beijing Biden and his whole family are making millions selling out the US.

Most of the greaseballs in Washington have similar deals all over the world.

And Zinke has to resign because his office desk was too expensive and how dare he be in real estate in his home town in Montana

He should have gotten into Ukrainian or Chinese real estate to get along with the sleaze factory eco terrorists.

Some of you people amaze me. It’s as if you forget how this democracy works. It was one man. Who openly talked of his ideas and goals. Which were geared to make American lives better. Against the whole corrupt bunch.

Yes he voted for bills he shouldn’t have. And openly said as much. He did so because old and young alike feel as if the government is their babysitter. People medicate to lifespans well beyond sustainable, then get angry at any president if their government provided insurance takes a hit. When in reality, that hit has come from a bill sponsored by our legislative branch. President aside. Same with the young. They want everything free. To dumb to realize it’s just political banter. Yet vote against those who point that out.

No president has ever been elected on the promise of raised taxes. No president has ever been elected with such a small campaign effort. No president has ever been elected that was shown and known to take foreign money for personal gain. No president has ever been elected campaigning against the 2nd amendment. Until now.

Yeah, let's save these comments for the BHA thread where they belong! LOL!

I am really surprised that there are people easily duped by someone like Trump who spoke the words people wanted to hear, but lied through his teeth.

Proof: He said in a address to reporters that Covid will be just like the flu and gone in a couple weeks, all while he admitted knowing that he was briefed by aides that the virus was severe. His response: " I didn't want to cause a panic". Now 300,000+ deaths later... I wish I would have known then that that it was so serious. Let me be the judge if I should panic.

The smoke and mirrors Trump used showed that you were duped, and you were too indifferent to even know it. SAD....

Also, with Trump's insistence on the $2000(us)/person payment. He has put conservative members of your congress in a tough spot, especially the 2 in a runoff election in Georgia. They have to go against their conservative principles in order to get elected. In doing so, he may have just tilted the special election towards the liberal party. Trump is selling out the conservative party out of spite because the leaders are unwilling to continue his charade over the election. It seems he is willing to take anyone down with him that does not do or say what he wants. It's called BEING DUPED!

Fauci said back then that COVID was no big deal, Proof: he said, "this is not a major threat to the United States, and is not something people should be worried about". He also said, "there's no reason to be walking around with a mask".

So Tate, your guy is a big fat liar too. Trump was trying to be positive and reassure people, instead of the typical liberal response of running around with their hair on fire screaming, "We're all going to die if you don't do what I say, right NOW!" (See: climate change..)

Forgot to mention that back in the spring when Trump promised we would have a vaccine "by the end of the year", and then rejiggered regulations to make that happen, all you hateful, lying liberals scoffed and ridiculed him. Now we have three vaccines, which under Barry Soetero's regulations would have taken 3-5 years to bring to market.

Lou, someone has to say this...if you believe that, you are not too bright or maybe not honest. And the rest of us are not dumb enough to believe it. He said it simply not to tank the economy with his eye on the election.

I voted for the man so quit with calling everyone who doesn’t genuflect a liberal. We went nuts when Obama told us we could keep our doctors, this is no different. Quit making excuses, use the same standards. Integrity demands it!

Tate, on the BHA thread, you openly said you didn’t trust the death count of Covid reported deaths in this country. Yet, took another sucker punch at a guy that isn’t even your countries leader. By acting as if they are credible for this argument. Which is it butter cup? It can’t be both ways.

Get it, liberal minded folks don’t like brash in your face personalities. It hurts their feelings. I also get it that a lot of Canadians don’t like Trump. His policies saw to that. I do understand he rubs people wrong. M

But, truth be known, I don’t like Justin either. I also don’t care if America first policy levels the playing fields of markets that gives American labor a fighting chance against the most absurd trade policy ever devised. And, some sources are stating the Covid counts are 40% inflated in their own states. That is coming from liberal land Minnesota.

It is what it is. Other wise pretty intelligent men incapable of an in your face guy telling it like it is. SMH.

Is it as surprising to you that people accused Trump of trying to convince them to inject Clorox, or drink fish tank cleaner, in an effort to cure COVID? Seems that your team was the one that tried to push that tripe. Yeah, You libs sure are savvy when it comes to sniffin' out the truth! Lol!

It is clear that for many of you it is about your god, and not conservative ideology. And I don’t have a problem with that, just embrace the truth. Trump and everyone else is just a messenger to be used to advance the cause of freedom, nothing more.

Going to be a lot of liberals and liberal politicians in hell too.

Frank, I do believe Trump was trying to calm the waters to prevent panic, for many reasons, including the economy. Even Fauci was telling him it wasn't a big deal. The Left and their media obviously wanted to instill panic to assert control while praying for the economy to tank before the election. Most politicians panicked, shut down the country (except for liquor and pot - because liberals love their weed..). That's a flashing billboard to anyone capable of objective reasoning.

The Left won the idea battle and look what happened. The economy has been destroyed, life savings and businesses permanently lost, people still died by the hundreds of thousands despite all the draconian measures. But hey, Biden was elected so it was all worth it.

There is a sickness in this country that's far worse than COVID. And unfortunately it will be around long after COVID is under control.

Sorry, but guys our age have to fight ‘old man syndrome’. Trump is motivated by what’s in it for him, period. Any other National figure who had the marital experiences he has, the bankruptcies etc. you guys would be raking over the coals.

What we need to be concerned about is the lack of rational thought that now allows for the full embrace of every radical conspiracy theory. History will show what a sham Trump’s proclamation of a stolen election was really about... a complete narcissist unable to cope with losing. And all of you who bought into it I hope will one day realize you embraced it because deep down you know you were taken by a con artist.

Conservative philosophy remains supreme, in spite of a narcissist who is willing to sell off everything he said he believed in.

That’s a pretty tough one. They chose one day. Election Day to not be corrupt. Unless you think those cities are not corrupt.

WRT covid, while Trump was shutting down International travel and assembling a covid response team..... while at the very same time, every one of those you support, including the brain dead sellout traitor who you just elected, was calling him racist and xenophobic for his actions. Leftists from Pelosi on one coast to Cuomo on the other were telling people to ignore the virus and literally.... word for word.... go downtown and party. Ignore Trump and his travel shutdowns. Actions? International shutdowns are legally about the only shutdowns available to the Executive under federal law. And Trump is the fascist dictator? Think about that. Think about the reality and what is the real lie. Folks wouldn't know a fascist dictator if they had one's rope around their neck. It's just a factually ignorant derogatory term to them.... like Nazi. Or you're ugly. Clueless as to it's real meaning. And blind as to the real actions of those they are supporting.

These same politicians screamed they had no ventilators.... Trump assembled private industries and hands them ventilators by the truckload, which they never used. "We have no hospital beds!" Here's a few navy medical ships..... which they never used. Fast tracked vaccines, which these same people claimed was impossible. huh. News "released" just a couple days AFTER the election... well, look at this, we have 3 vaccines.... how did that happen? Crickets. Why? Completely dishonest bastages is why. Evil.

Trump DIDN'T put covid patients in rest homes, increasing the death toll by the thousands. Dem run states with not only the strictest lock downs as well as the highest infection rates.... they have the highest DEATH rates as well. Then writing books and hailed by the left as heroes for how they handled things so awesomely..... yes.... literal insanity. What else would explain such cognitive dissidence, denial of reality. Only other option is just simply evil. You know.... that uncomfortable right and wrong thing again....

He handled it EXACTLY as he should have. His team made recommendations with the best info available (which the best "science" by the top experts changed week to week. so much for "following the science"...) and he followed them. States manage themselves in emergencies. Need some help, ask and you shall receive. But legally, constitutionally..... each state determines their own actions and responses. Feds cannot (and should not) order such actions. He did all that he had available..... and more, removing costly and time eating regulations to fast track needed medical innovation.

But covid is all Trumps fault..... Yup, you people are flippin' nuts.

You talking about me or Lou? I am willing to bet you are only critical of the one you disagree with, and that’s exactly what I am pointing out... the vast hypocrisy with you trumplicans.

TD... I don’t even bother reading your posts any more...too lengthy and always say the same...trump is great.

Altitude, none of the crap you list has been proven. I wii take the word of the AG, our security specialists, scores of judges from both sides and the SC over another whiny trump conspiracy. Seriously, in school if a guy whined as much as he does for being picked on, he would have been given something to really whine about.

Get over it, your god lost. Start fixating on how we minimize the damage and turn it around in 2022 and beyond. Please don’t become a bunch of whiners like trump, too many of you I have held respect for as tough guys...up until now.

Nothing I can even imagine is positive about this leftist/socialist WRT hunters and hunting, much less for the country. Although there may be a bunch more bowhunters after she and her party takes away your guns.... if they let you hunt on fed land after it's all national parks. The intentional blindness to these political agendas is breathtaking. Truly amazing the knots and pretzels folks will twist into to avoid "being judgemental". Well, unless you're orange.....

It was stated how most folks are politically "neutral" and that may be somewhat true.... for the general public. But it may come as a shock, politicians.... are political. THEY have ideologies. Agendas. Nature of the beast, like it or not. Some are clearly driven by them. These people are the ones who are running for office. You have..... a vote. Pick one, yes, pick a side. Neutral is rarely a given option. Neutral and neutered share a base origin.

Quite interesting.... some here claim to hate the "black and white" ideological politics.... and those politicians. Yet hate one of the only non-politicians to ever be elected to high office. As well as one of the least ideological WRT party, which made him hated by both. He just wanted to get things done, to hell with the feel good BS. Loved personal freedom and rights. And the country. America First. Americans First. But there is one group, one party, America First is bad. The American flag is bad, patriotism is bad.

Globalism is good. Ruled by consensus of global interests is good. Global Corporate rule is good. No more American Companies, now to them there are only American Consumers whose money (and military power) they want and need. Literally our highest offices openly bought and paid for (and slept with even) by Global interests (yeah, the Chinese) and those Globalist corporations/interests like Google, Facebook, Apple, NBA, Academia, etc. stand quietly by as those entities that own them literally commit/support genocide and slavery on massive scales. Crickets from Corporate Media, Academia and Tech. And anyone standing up to them and calling them out (like Trump) will have the full force of their power against them in opposition.

Only in this party of Globalist worship is there no black and white, right or wrong. Just what we tell you to think.... what makes you feel good and not have to face up to what makes you feel bad. Anything which gives them and keeps them in money and power. Whatever that thing may currently be. Right and wrong? Seriously? You'd need morals and ethics for that.....

I write for myself.... often just for therapy.... talking out loud so to speak (write?) try to make sense of the blind or insane.... and sometimes because I believe lies as well as those who promote them (for your own good of course) need to be challenged. Like a high fast ball, just can't lay off em. If they can't defend the stuff they push with any kind of reality or facts.... then are offended anyone challenged them at all in their safe space.... maybe commenting on a public internet forum is likely a bit too much for their high strung selves......

The WSJ stated today that Trump is killing the Republican Party. I say good if that’s the case. It needs restructured. To get back to its roots.

I’ll say it again. Most of Trumps supporters don’t align with him because he is a Republican. They do so because he is America first. To the bone. And, makes zero apology about it.

I don’t know why anyone would be so arrogant to suggest his supporters liken Trump to God status. It’s absurd, ignorant, and misguided. Not to mention a direct route to assigning the problem lies with the accuser.

He tells it like he sees it. If that chaps your sensitive backside, sobeit. It really isn’t a debate that many feel that way. The only thing in question is why? I’ll leave that to the individual. Because whatever caused it, I’m certain it’s a personal problem. Because it’s simply impossible to declare anything except that Trump’s motivation was making America Great Again.

It was a question followed by an ‘if’. Thanks for not understanding English.

Do you have a short memory? We just discussed his lying about the severity of COVID. It doesn’t matter what is pointed out Justin, you will make up another justification in your mind. Lou keeps using a common argument for justifying poor ethical behavior which is someone else displayed worse behavior. It doesn’t hold water. And a typical response from you will be to use a Bible passage “proving” your justification is on solid Christian ground. It is not. Here’s the difference between us, I don’t expect any human to be without faults, so I can readily admit my own and all of his. Many of you cannot find fault with trump without qualifying it.

If we can ever focus on the ideology and how to pitch it inclusively, we will make progress. If we continue with ‘Orange man god’ we all lose.

And I did mean small g god, not good.

Term limits were built into our democracy anyways. We exercise that right every single time we cast a vote for the House.

And your wrong. Incumbents average like 90% re-election. If the electorate was truly sick of career politicians they would vote the bastards out.

Lying to you American citizen about the severity of Covid, rationalized by "I don't want to cause a panic".

Chaotic administration, Firing and hiring folks so quickly that they don't get a chance to get confirmed by your senate. Most cabinet secretaries have (acting) in their title. Important department head coming and going with no stability...defense dept, attorney general, secretary of state, head of cia, there are many more, but me not being akin to your govt, I may leave many out.

Bible photo op at church after using tear gas to disburse protestors. Tries to look sacred but say things like "Jon Bon Jovi kisses my ass when he sees me". Stormy Daniels hush money. He can grab girls by the Pussy because when your famous they let you do it.

One of his supporters who he pardoned has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. Want to do a pre-emptive pardon on himself and his family.

Holds up your covid relief bill for really distressed American's, but then signs it after unemployment benefits expire. There was no explanation for this one.

Consistently over inflating the facts on just about every subject.

It's true, populists say what the masses want to hear to gain their approval, but then look out for the madness they cause. Similar to Castro, Lenin, Ho Chi Min, Mao, Hitler, Mussolini.

He needs to go away before he does any more damage to your country.

The easy way to tell if Biden is lying is his mouth is moving.

You want to be anti Trump knock yourself out. I just wouldn’t want to die on the Trump lies hill when all politicians lie including Sleepy Joe.

Does your, my, or anyone else’s vote mean a damn thing?

Apparently not.

Especially with the voting machines programmed, built and paid for to be corrupted...

All driven by the Globalist Agenda!

Now, back to Lou’s original premise... If any of you think this libtard hack will do anything whatsoever to improve access for hunting, you are sadly mistaken. The left has been very clear, they want your guns, they want retributions, they want to control you. Anyone that thinks that they should be able to do anything remotely resembling self reliance is the enemy. Bow to the all powerful Government or PERISH!

Hitler, Lenin, etc. Who is it again who wants guns outlawed? (first step, take away firearms, personal defense) Free speech censored? Control of the media? (second step) Higher taxes? A foreign policy that creates and literally funds wars and terrorist groups like ISIS and Iran? (4 major middle east peace deals on table right now) Who is funding/supporting organized rioting and looting across the country? Literal book burning/banning and tearing down historical monuments, attacking organized religion? Yep, Hitler, Lenin all over, to the letter..... damn those facts.....

Trump reformed the justice/criminal system for the first time in DECADES where as those just those two people "elected" are personally responsible for more POC being imprisoned than anyone alive. That's a fact. But obviously, if your feelings dictate, facts can be ignored.... Go Beijing Biden and Heels up Harris! Orange Man Bad.....

Trump lead the deregulation on private business and individuals along with encouragement of personal freedoms and responsibility. Reduced reliance on government support in nearly all ways, not increased it. His actions have been the polar opposite of Lenin, Hitler, etc. but he did speak mean and hurt snowflakes around the globe.... (winks eye.....) so that makes him like, a bad man.... you know, Hitler or something..... good grief....

If you will look with open eyes.... this is the American Left doing and supporting all this. And all those actions were the exact actions taken by Hitler and those you mentioned to take power from their opposition, take power from the citizens. And as history shows.... the left ate it up, the power and control, and the violent mobs and thoughtless masses brought those people to power. Millions of souls died at their hands. Millions.

You just literally accused Trump of the exact actions and motives of his leftist opposition, he has done none of that. But leftist like to toss around terms they think are just derogatory and have no historical knowledge of, much less any proof or action of. That's what they want you to think because if they say it enough the weak minded start to believe the lie. It's as dishonest as it gets. Total loss of intellectual integrity. But, you know.... Orange Man Bad.... and dammit we do what we are told.....

Was that too many words? Yeah likely..... I know, I know, feelings matter more than any facts or reality.....

The American political machine is far to complicated and shall I say corrupt for the injection of my opinions as an outsider. I will no longer contribute my opinions on this thread. Happy New Year fellow bowhunters.

Yes, you have proven this statement accurate. Your different approach is everyone else lies, trump does not or if he did it is for the greater good. Some day you will find out you don’t get to define what is an untruth.

And Justin, the electorate did exercise term limits on Trump, they said, “well, bye.”. Everyone says they want term limits until their god is limited.

Stop and think, the majority cast a vote for the other terrible choice. Trump is mainly responsible for that, he could have prevented it. The good news IMHO is this means the majority of Americans still expect decency and respectful behavior from those who want to lead. We can build on that if we can quit whining about what the other side gets away with. But, I think most here would rather whine and see more gun restrictions to be able to say “see, I told you”.

(Let me preface my comments. Although I support most of President Trump's policies, I am not a fan of his behavior)

Voters have short attention spans and selective amnesia. I remember when Trump was elected in 2016, the pundits/experts were telling us the economy will never recover with the zest of previous economic recoveries. It was just a function of the "new" economy. (Read "World Economy"). In the weeks after the 2016 election, the stock market went on a good run leading up to inauguration. The Obama defenders claimed it was the recovery finally kicking in. (And taking credit). Almost no credence was given to the psychological affect the 2016 election had on businesses and investors. As someone who owns a small business, lives in a state with significant revenue from fossil fuels, and watches his retirement funds, the economic fresh air was palpable.. The 8 year wet blanket was being lifted.

As I witness the preparation for President elect Biden (Agency/ Cabinet Appointments ), I have very little doubt we are entering at least 4 years Obama 2.0. Greater government regulation and bureaucracy. The current cadre of elected and appointed officials have zero connection to the small businesses or folks who have to balance a bank accounts or have any idea of revenue/expenses which impact most working folks. If someone lists previous work experience as "Community Organizer", this should automatically disqualify that person from any govt position (local, county, state, federal) which has fiscal decision making within the job description. President Trump has been a great disappointment when it comes to fiscal responsibility. But it appears as the Democratic new mantra is to support institutional fiscal irresponsibility. (Check out Link). I do not fear for myself. I have economic fear for my kids, grandkids, and our country.

Love or hate President Trump, my retirement plan has NEVER experienced a 2 year return like this. (Which includes a once in a century pandemic) . I have been contributing to a retirement for 35+ years. I am sure the Biden supporters will be blaming Trump and the pandemic when the economy returns to Obama era "recovery" rates.

Back to thread title, Biden's nominee for Dept of Interior sucks!

My take on the difference between Trumpublicans and Democrats is that Trumpublicans believe, without ANY proof, what a confirmed pathological liar says, and any number of ridiculous conspiracy theories that fit their narrative of an alternate reality. They defend him and his party above even the country. They are NOT Patriots in any way. Trump would never be satisfied until you place a crown on his head. Real Republicans were smarter than that, but FINALLY even most current Republican senators can no longer deny that Tump is for Trump first last and always, above everything else, including the Country. Unfortunately, the party was taken over by nut-jobs led by a deranged narcissist. And the result is they turned it ALL over to the Democrats. Thank you Trump!

Libs burn down cities for a year and it's called peaceful protest. Trumpers riot and it is the worst day in american history.

Media bias is alive and well.

Trump is a National disgrace and international embarrassment.

Then you as a hunter are partly to blame for poaching? Got it...

I figured the "Hunters?" that support the party that would love to take away our second amendment rights would be here waving their banners today and I was right. Just remember to reap what you sow.

The left's hypocrisy is astounding. I couldn't believe the double talk I heard on what limited mainstream media I listened to yesterday. The left spent millions of taxpayers money on Russia gate, for quite a long time, years. All based on 2 individual informants statements. But now there are hundreds of signed affidavits from people claiming fraud. And we are told too bad, you lose, shut up and go home. Hypocrisy. We are not children, and being told "because I said so" is not ok. By the way, why is anyone questioning this election an evil conspiracy theorist? But they went on for years on much less? And the investigation shows that the Russiagate informers were paid by the DNC. Nothing to see here folks. Go home and shut up.

If Biden won fair and square, fine. Well not really, but I, and most others will deal with it.

It's not even about Trump, it's about stealing this country. And then they say "Trump" did this. No, they did it. Shut up and go home, we don't answer to you.

The problem here is that there are too many unanswered questions. If he won, be transparent. Shove it in our faces, gloat, whatever. But when you outright lie, and omit infomation to fit a narrative, it will make people angry. If there is no integrity of our election process, this country is lost. Don't ever bother voting again, it doesn't matter. It has all been decided ahead of time, just like the WWE.

Even if there were no antifa provocateur's there, maybe this was a shot over the bow. This is our country, everybody citizens country. It's about time our representatives start fearing the people. I for one am tired of fearing my government. They are elected to represent us. Not to rule over us.

And then they, and the BS media says this is an attack on the constitution? Maybe they look at it as defending the constitution. After all, state and the Fed's have performed quite a few unconstitutional acts this year alone.

Our government has done this all over the world, to many countries. Creating insurrection, so they can topple an existing government, and put the government that they want in place. And now they did it on our own turf.

Maybe I am a little jaded living under King Cuomo. I should have probably ask him to approve this post, as he wants to dictate just about every aspect of lives here in NY.

By Ziek's logic, he and KSflatlander are partly to blame for all that.

I supported Trump's policies, and because the only other choice was a senile, lying, plagiarizing, incompetent, corrupt swamp dweller who has done absolutely nothing in 47 years in Congress, and who is bought and paid for by foreign interests, there was only one choice.

That's hilarious. DC would be burned to the ground by now had Trump won.

It’s funny to me that people like the liberals in this thread, talk of inciting violence by Trump. Totally arrogant in the reality that each of those who broke into the capital were totally responsible of their own decisions and actors. It’s typical though. Because anybody who’d support Trump is deplorable and dumb anyway. Right?

I got news for you guys. The best thing to do is call it what it is. Because it was people like you who enraged that mob. You talk of things as if you are above it all. Yet, are so ignorant of reality you can’t see the vitriol your kind has created over the last 4 years. All the broad brush name calling, insinuations of ignorance, the biased bs the msm put out. Then, to have these obvious discretions in our elections receive zero attention, we are lucky they didn’t chase down every senator and congress person and kill them on the spot.

It’s funny to me we get senators from both sides saying we need to look into the rule changes that made fraud a possibility. Yet, they wanted to do it all after Trump was gone. Sounds like they have a problem with something. But, it isn’t half of America being degraded for the last 4 years. Or, a possibility of a fraudulent election.

Anyways, it’s probably best for all of America that we find some common ground. But, as always, it’s going to have to be on your terms. Or, those that disagree with you will be racists, homophobic, ignorant pony faced blah, blah, blah.

If there is a riot, I don’t care who it is they should be arrested and prosecuted. Antifa, proud boys, I really don’t care. Storm the Capitol...that’s next level and the prison sentences will reflect it.

However, those of you that consume Newsmax and Oann with your breakfast and eat dinner with Hannity every night assume because I’m a liberal that I’m a socialist, Antifa sympathizer, communist because right wing fake news and Trump feed you that crap. That’s your problem for listening to that crap.

I’m for the 2nd Amendment, think blue lives matter, and have did an honest days work for honest days pay all my life. But I believe my own eyes and ears and am loyal to no man. I’m loyal to the Constitution and the institutions/branches of government it creates.

I stand by my vote and my words in the previous post.

NOT TRUE but awesome. Golf clap and kudos.

You could not possibly have Those opinions and voted the way you did.

I'm sure you are a good dude. Just misguided.

The left has no leg to stand on when it comes to criticism of yesterday. They covered up the rioting that took place all summer.

The next four years were a constant organized attack on a duly elected president with one purpose, overthrow Trump.

We suffered through the Russia hoax, the impeachment bs and all summer we watch cities burn. The dems and their media lap dogs never made a peep. They actually encouraged it. Now they steal elections.

The assault on our democracy started long before yesterday. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

If you look at down ballot races, especially at the state level (legislatures and governorships), R did exceedingly well. Some of the analysis of the election I have read said this happened because of a repudiation of Trump personally, not policy wise. Offered as proof is that he actually increased his percentages in Democrat strongholds like metropolitan areas, but this was offset by significant percentage losses in suburbia, especially with female voters turning their backs on him. I am still amazed at the number of trump supporters who seem incapable of understanding likability matters to most people. Not saying it should, just saying it does and hopefully we get that before the next nomination process.

Go ahead an tell yourself that it must be that I have done bio work for renewables and my vote is only self serving. Does it make you feel better? FYI I also have worked on the keystone XL, coal plants, etc. I have also worked on natural gas oil pipelines this year.

Maybe my vote can simply be explained because I thought a senile old man who leans left was better than a conspiracy theorist fascist.

FWIW, the capital building are chambers of the government OWNED by the people. Not the legislative branch. I do t condone tearing it up. But, I have no problems with making elected officials accountable.

I for one gladly accept a democracy with temporary weak (hopefully temporary) leadership over a dictatorship.

The debates you are trying to settle will be unending, and you are engaging with a mindset in folks that will never end. I applaud you for your passion in trying to make the US a better place from the deep divides that have been caused, especially in the last 4 years.

At this point you would be better off getting on with the prospect of a more peaceful and hopefully adventurous life in the outdoors. Let the arrogance continue on amongst themselves. The energy they are expelling on this thread would be so useful if channeled in the right direction. Don't let yourself be dragged down with the ignorant vitriol and circular logic these people using. They are better off arguing amongst themselves. let them have an audience of themselves.

The time to walkaway is now, in the victories you have achieved, and let the defeated wallow in their own mud.

You could substitute "Trump" with "democrats" and this statement would describe the last four years.

We agree on one thing, we better start moving to the middle. And the electorate confirmed most Americans are centrists with our most recent election.

I acknowledge and accept the fact that the dems in Congress attempted to overthrow a legitimately elected president. I also acknowledge that our president's behavior made this effort much easier than it should have been.

Mr. Trump is a narcissist incapable of receiving sound advice. If he could have acted with the decency expected of the office, he would have won in an actual landslide instead of the imaginary one he cannot let go of. Too bad for the nation, but especially we conservatives who actually believe in a limited government, one not driven by populist trends as Mr. Trump was/is prone to do. $2K checks is not conservatism, no matter what the ACU says.

What else can I say about the left that other than their opportunism has left them morally bankrupt IMO.

Rocky, thank you for your service! What is important now is Republicans agree upon an actual right of center platform that takes a big tent approach, and finds a spokesperson that can be embraced by the majority because they recognize their role is as a servant to the people, not to themselves.

Getting America back on track will not be done quickly, but will require time and effort to win the hearts and minds of those still learning. It will require accepting some temporary setbacks, it will require a uniter, not a divider. I am a teacher, and I try to do my part by explaining to my students why I believe in economic freedom (markets) and that requires political freedom, democracy to function as efficiently as possible. And that there are no perfect solutions, markets may create challenges such as inequity at a level a moral populace may find untenable, yet no doubt they have raised standards for more by far than any other system.

Rocky, both sides have fringes that are not acceptable or tolerable today. And both sides seem incapable of admitting those fringes exist, and then having the courage to distance themselves because they might need their votes. I am almost 62, too old to be threatened as I have been that the fringe right knows who I am and I will not last. I continue to speak out, just as I do when folks want identity politics to dictate how and what I can think.

Yes, let's move to the middle, I am with you on that!

Obama and the Dems created the wide divide which in turn created Trump.

Just wait a couple months when the charges are dropped against the police in the George Floyd fentanyl overdose case. Ziek, Ksflatlander, and all their people will be burning cities again, and the media and Left will call it "righteous indignation".

I'll take it.

And let me state unequivocally, nor should all of the charges be dropped IMO. I am not a criminal attorney, but kneeling on a man's neck for almost 9 minutes, several of those with no movement observed, while said individual was face down in handcuffs ought to be recognized as egregious government behavior. That said, I support the use of deadly force when life is threatened, and even property, can reasonably be expected to occur such as what we observed this week in our Nation's Capitol.

'TD, RK, Jaquomo, BC, WV Mountaineer, Rocky D, Trapperkayak and many many others. It's apparent that this and the other threads are saturated in a deep political divide that has become the essence of life in the US. The debates you are trying to settle will be unending, and you are engaging with a mindset in folks that will never end. I applaud you for your passion in trying to make the US a better place from the deep divides that have been caused by the Obama years and Democrats in general.

At this point you would be better off getting on with the prospect of a more peaceful and hopefully adventurous life in the outdoors. Let the arrogance continue on amongst themselves. The energy they are expelling on this thread would be so useful if channeled in the right direction. Don't let yourself be dragged down with the ignorant vitriol and circular logic these people are using. They are better off arguing amongst themselves. Let them have an audience of themselves.

The time to walkaway is now and let the clueless Leftwing nut jobs wallow in their own mud and the destruction they have insured for this Nation”

*FIXED

On a common ground note, I did some treestand maintenance recently and took some of my older half platform stands and made them full platform with flip up seats. I added a foot rest and painted them with bedliner from a rattle can. How did I do?

I’m good with meeting in the middle without all the name calling and vitriol.

Hey, Trax. I enjoyed reading the rundown of your season via PM. Sounds like you and your boys had a fun year hunting.

I have condemned all that you refer to and at times in person.

I prefer the market place undo Zucker and his virtual monopoly, we need a conservative leaning social media platform. To me at least, this last election showed not all is lost to liberal causes.

I agree on not giving up Constitutional Rights, unless done so through the process allowed for in the Constitution itself, such as giving women the right to vote.

I am pro-life, but the Libertarian in me doesn't care about civil unions/marriages or other social issues that seems to bother some. I want to move to less regulation, lower taxes and portability of health care coverage. In that regards, especially on the last issue, flexibility from both sides is necessary. And deficits/debt!

Buckle up, those peaceful protesters harris keeps bailing out are going to ramp up and burn down a town near you.

Darn. I was under the impression that you were a Trump supporter

My wife's brothers lives outside of Fairbanks, Alaska, quite isolated and living a subsistence lifestyle since 1990. He is isolated enough that he has no contact with current events except when he travels to town. every 3-4 months. He makes it a point of restocking his hunting ammunition after the end of hunting seasons as it is quite expensive there and the retailer usually sells extra ammo at the end of the season at a discounted price.

In 1992 during and after the presidential election, there was no ammo available as the folks in the lower 48 were hoarding ammo because of the threat of Bill Clinton coming for your guns, and extensive taxes on ammo. This never materialized.

In 2008 he had acquired enough hunting ammo, so he never went into town til later. He had no idea that there was a new president. But finally when he did go to town in February 2009, the ammo shelves were empty again. He said to the clerk, a democrat must have been elected. The folks once again in the lower 48 were hoarding ammo because of the threat of Barack Obama coming for your guns, and extensive taxes on ammo. This never materialized.

I haven't heard from him since late October, but I am sure once again the ammo shelves will be cleared once again in the lower 48 were hoarding ammo and know a Democrat was elected because of the threat of Joe Biden coming for your guns, and extensive taxes on ammo. This again will never materialize.

It's a selfish attitude, taking away ammo from folks who are truly in need for their survival.

The human logic of the right wing in your country is amusing to watch. Hoarding, Anxiety, etc. When do you all have time to enjoy life?

Bingo. The Russians are coming!!!!!

(New catch phrase when you get kicked off Twitter)

You’re welcome ESPN

Any Trump supporters have lost any credibility when this video went public.

And the Blue Lives Matter Flag with that group didn't apply to the officer that was killed after being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher

I guess now you will blame it on Antifa wearing maga hats

That discusses them but they don't come from paper or other people.

You can decide who/what you believe the creator is. God, mother nature, aliens, Allah, Waheguru, etc.. They don't need to be written down as they exist regardless of what man writes down. They are inherent and self-evident. Even if people aren't allowed to exercise them by other people, they still exist.

FTR, I accept unequivocally they are rights from birth and therefore guaranteed by my Creator, but this is Faith that others do not share.

Oh....and to stay on topic...go Red team, boooo Blue team.

Matt

Perhaps you missed the 1994 Assault weaon ban.

Or perhaps this one floated by Feinstein in 2013. Failed to move because the republicans controlled the House. Please note that under this proposed bill, it didn't apply to hunting. Because the 2A is all about hunting?

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary#:~:text=Rifles%3A%20All%20AK%20types%2C%20including,AKS%3B%20All%20AR%20types%2C%20including

This assault weaon ban was proposed in 2019. It applies to semi-auto assault weapons. Which is ironic because an assault rifle by definiton is capable of full auto. But hey, let's make shit up as we go, because the media won't call us out on it. 34 co-sponsors. All democrats.

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/f/d/fdca734c-4855-49f3-aa1d-2ed02e791d6d/E5ECBD1B1D722D5C4AEDAEBB6276AB36.awb-bill-text.pdf

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/66

It's not because they haven't tried. They have. And will keep doing so.

Coward, where was he when this happened? Definitely not with the protestors.

Warning: Graphic

Things I'm confident in:

America will survive as an amazing and independent Nation on this earth.

You can be an amazing human being, a great community member, and a proud citizen of your nation if you are Left or Right.

The opposite is also true.

The more extreme one's views, the more one feels ease with vilification of those they disagree with or do not understand, the more one needs to step back, and deeply assess how they are viewing things and consider if there is a better approach. That's L or R.

Peak performers, be the individuals or enterprises, never stop seeking way's to improve. They never try to stay the same. If they do, they lose "peak performer" status pretty quickly. America has done just that for all of it's years on earth, always sought out ways to meet the moment and exceed it. It's failed and faltered and risen and changed and grown. That started from when America started and has and will continue past all of us.

Those are just things I've been thinking about, with the chaos and craziness of current events. Carry on with the more targeted political debate.

It’s call making sh#% up.

The fact don’t care what you believe.

This event fed the left and made it harder on republicans to do anything of substance. Now traditional conservative values will held suspect. This was a large loss for conservative values and a huge gain for the socialists, higher taxes, support justified unemployment, unchecked immigration, especially firearm regulations. On the fence politicians will now support further firearm restrictions because of the threats being made against them.

He has single handedly handcuffed your republican party from doing anything. Remember when I said he's gonna take down everyone with him?

If I were his supporter, I would feel let down, and BTW, your president has command over the secret service. You see this with him exiting cars during inaugural parade, etc. He could have put himself in jeopardy with his supporters. Pence would have assumed command. That's the heroics of a true patriot.

FTR, I accept unequivocally they are rights from birth and therefore guaranteed by my Creator, but this is Faith that others do not share."

I get it. Some people believe all rights come from decisions made by other people, usually a government. "How do we know God ordained them?" - I don't. But they are self-evident. When you hit your thumb with a hammer, it hurts because you hit it with a hammer. The cause is self-evident. My explanation was complete even though some may not accept it. The level of faith in a deity varies from 100% convinced to 100% sure there isn't one and every level in between. That doesn't change the fact that hitting your thumb with a hammer hurts.

self-ev·i·dent /?self ?ev?d?nt/ adjective adjective: self-evident not needing to be demonstrated or explained; obvious.

;-)

Matt

And I only want to clarify, once again, my position. Too many of you create your own narrative and argue/attack others on that narrative instead of what was actually said.

While I had never voted a straight ticket until 2020, I had been a registered Republican, and voted for the Republican nominee for President my entire life, until I didn't have that choice. (I'm now unaffiliated) My problem was/is with Trump, (and so should yours by now if you ever want to see Republicans regain a majority) not a love of Democrats, although I do agree with them on some issues. If it wasn't clear, my thanking Trump in my previous post for turning power over to the Democratic Party wasn't actually thanking him. It was sarcastic blame.

When I hear people say, it was a choice between Hillary or Trump, while that was true, It should have NEVER come to that. The failure of Republicans was nominating him in the first place. It was clear before, during and, after he ran that he was unsuitable. I cheered when Clinton was impeached. But he was impeached for less than what Trump bragged about during the primaries, as only one example. While I couldn't have known how bad it would finally get, it wasn't all that surprising. And it doesn't matter how badly you think he was treated. He incited a violent overthrow of a LEGAL election. Any other narrative is fake news. And anyone who still supports him can only be considered anti-American. Even most of his staunch supporters and enablers in government finally put their political interest behind those of the country. Those few that haven't openly denounced him, will likely regret it. My guess is, behind the scenes Pence has his figurative knee on Trump's neck, commanding him to behave, or else.

It's also true that our government doesn't work as it should. That is not the fault of elected officials. It's the fault of all of us, or at least too many of us. I say it again, politics is NOT a winner take all proposition. Those that think it is, or should be, are at fault. That approach can only lead to failure, chaos, and anarchy. We should be electing people who run on compromise and shared allegiance to EVERYONE. I only hope the Dems don't try to overreach, and do a better job at that than the recent, failed administration. They sure can't do any worse. Hopefully, Republicans can get back to being Republicans. If not, get ready for a LONG Democratic reign.

So to be clear, I am NOT a left wing liberal! I am also not a far right, nut job believing it idiotic conspiracy theories and white supremacy.

Here is reality. In case you are ever capable of recognizing it again. I nor many here cares not one ounce about party politics. While republicans might be the lesser of the two evils currently, they surely aren’t worth setting up base camp with. Currently, I understand you see them as the less of two evils. Totally content to accept it in the name of party politics yet, so ignorant you lecture others of the dire consequences of doing so. By admitting you’d rather the party win versus fixing what ails the system.

For the last time on this thread, let me explain that what people saw in Trump wasn’t his achievement of the Republican platform issues. Because in case you missed it, they were against a good bit of his goals too. Instead, people found solace in a guy willing to POINT out and FIGHT against the problems that party politics 100% created.

More importantly , he did so while giving up great personal wealth to do this. Because he truly feels that is what was ailing this country.

It was that commitment alone that so many will accept what he was, to try and fix what this country was becoming. A group of elite class that was stomping on the backs of those that make this republic possible.

These elected people aren’t our superiors. They work for us. And both parties have forgotten that as a whole.

So, you can sell out for the Republican Party. That’s your choice. But, it in no way is going to fix the abuse the party is handing the American people.

I too vote likely the same way as you. I’ve never doubted that. The only thing I doubt about you is your ability to see the problem. Because currently you are the problem.

Good post Ziek.

I unfortunately believe that average American does not posses enough responsibility to see it through though. Because it was human nature that got us here. It’s going to take an honest effort to get us out. People don’t like that. They like blissfully ignorant. Until it bites them in the butt.

Do you agree/disagree with it?

Kind of the same if you kneel during the National Anthem while working during company time you can be fired for it.

If I walk into a bass pro and insight a riot I can be banned indefinitely. I see no difference.

The government didn’t shut down all of Twitter nor could they. They can’t shut Bowsite down. However, Pat can shut it down and he can kick me off for pretty much whatever reason he wants. It’s his private company and his rules.

I support private companies running there companies how they want as long as they are not discriminating a protected class.

Trump is the POTUS. He has the largest communication platform in the World regardless of Twitter. In addition, he has other alternatives for social media platforms.

Nothing could be truer, WV, and no one understands that less than Trump. If you believe that, how can you countenance Trump not fulfilling his remaining responsibilities and preparing to leave when he was fired?

I DO understand the problem. Too many people think Democracy is enforcing one set of political ideology on everyone. I've lived long enough to have lived under both parties occupying the White House. We had good, and not so good Presidents from both parties. And nothing much changed in my life. Some things I agreed with, and some things I didn't. But like most, I never thought I would see a President of the United States, deliberately incite an insurrection in order to seize power. It's intolerable, and should infuriate every American. Some of us saw the threat he imposed sooner than others, but no one can deny it now.

Regardless of the team anyone supports,...are you comfortable with the current voting laws/options/oversight?

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

Sometimes the people responsible for bad things are the ones who actually do the bad things. That's not a popular view these days, I know.

However, I do not believe that there is no widespread voting fraud that would change this election. The courts (democrat and republican judges alike) have ruled. In addition, I do not believe there was a widespread conspiracy because simply...too many people would have to be involved and NOBODY can keep that kind of secret. But that’s my made up sh#% just like TrapperK’s. The facts don’t care what I believe.

Trump lost and that’s that. Get’em next time if his platform was so good...and there will be a next time just as there have been over 200 years.

Screw Trump but if you believe in his platform then find someone to push it who isn’t a destructive narcissist.

But, I’m anxious to hear your response to 70lb draws question. It’ll be interesting to say the least.

TDS is more dangerous than COVID.

By the way, Please provide some evidence showing that our Vice-President elect and Speaker of the House urging riots this summer. I must have missed that. Seriously, I’m not defending them...I just want to see where they said that. I wasn’t aware they were in Portland at all during the riots.

There goes Justin straying from his right/wrong...black/white world again. You just bend your self professed morals to fit your needs. Rocky’s words “show me a man who will stand for anything and I will show you a man who stands for nothing” come to mind. Were the Capitol riots right or wrong?

Totally staged like a bad B flick.

Planned by one “faction” to make sure to make our President look like he incited an “attempted coup”.

Someone bussed in Antifa dressed like Trump supporters... The police opened the barricades, opened the doors, stood to the side, and led the “rioters” to the rotunda. There were cameras running from multiple angles to get the “cops getting overrun” by “Trump supporters”.

If this would have been any kind of real attack, or defense, there would have been at least a lot of knocked heads. Probably a lot of dead bodies...

Made for TV BS..

Wake UP.

He had to end his presidency with one last lie: "I'll will be right with you walking to the capitol"

How can you in all common sense believe him and his assertions regarding the election or any other topic. I'd like to know.

Depends what you mean by "current". Colorado, and other states, have been doing mail in ballots for years, and it works great, especially if you think increased participation is good. It also provides an actual paper trail of the votes. There may have been some minor issues with states that didn't have the time they would have liked to set it up for the volume there was. Some Republicans doing their best to sabotage it ahead of time, didn't help, including Trump's attempt to hamstring the USPS. But I don't think it affected the results, and all the audits support that.

Jaq, the Capital is the peoples' house. Mine, yours, everyone's. So I guess if I come into your house, uninvited and tear it up, your response would just be "Woooo"?

Treeline. Prove it instead of just making up your own reality.

Nice try Glunt, but there was a lot more said than that, and he and his team have been firing them up with lies since before the election. They knew what he meant when he told them "...to fight harder...". I guess Trump was right back when he said he could gun someone down in broad daylight in Times Square, and his base would still love him. He knows suckers when he sees them.

For the record, John Sullivan should go to prison for what he done.

Why did apple warn parler they’d remove them from the App Store?

"That's right," Harris replied. "But they're not gonna stop. They're not gonna stop, and this is a movement, I'm telling you."

"They're not gonna stop, and everyone beware, because they're not gonna stop," she added. "They're not gonna stop before Election Day in November, and they're not gonna stop after Election Day."

"Everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they're not going to let up — and they should not. And we should not," she concluded."

A “rogue” officer, did you say publicly the same about Chauvin? I am asking because I don’t remember. If not, that lack of consistency is why so many believe trump supporters are racists no doubt.

Still waiting for your response on the bet.

By the way - what happened in Portland, Seattle and all across the country should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - as should what happened this past week.

KS - you crack me up. Stating “I back the blue, I’m pro second amendment, I’m for a hard days work for a days pay” - blah blah blah - yet your great disconnect is that you vote for people who are exactly the OPPOSITE of what you supposedly stand for. They back the thugs not the blue, threaten the 2nd amendment and are not for law and order or a hard days work.

The fact don’t care what you believe. So KS, the fact is the Secret Service WOULD have allowed the President to go out into the crowd of protestors, some of whom may have been Antifa, etc? Tell me the facts please, I must be uninformed.

A wise old owl sat on a Oak

The more he saw the less he spoke

The less he spoke the more he heard

I wish more were like that wise old bird.

The DA overcharged him to appease her constituents. After the body cam footage is shown in court and the coroner evidence is presented (5X the lethal dose of fentanyl, plus enlarged heart, cocaine, meth, and other health issues), second degree murder won't stick. Third degree murder charges were already dropped.

There are bad cops, no question. But the Democrats made Floyd out to be a hero and worth burning cities over, when he was a drug addict, woman abuser (he threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the belly) criminal.

Perhaps more disturbing is how some of you attempt to distinguish between the riot at our nation's capital and those in Portland and other cities. As if the right has a better, less violent breed of rioters, with a more noble cause. I swear, it's almost as if some of you actually support what happened in DC last week. That's disturbing.

Matt

Regardless, that doesn’t give me or anyone to now say all Trump supporters are represented by Capitol rioters. Flip side, I don’t answer for Antifa and any stupid riot that happened this summer. You want to use violence to press a political agenda you should go to jail for it.

You all could just simply call out the wrong that was done by some at the Capitol instead of falsely blaming BLM or Antifa. You excuse a police officer kneeling of a neck of an unconscious man for 3 minutes. Based on the video I can see the cop went to far. He will get his day in court and a jury of his peers will judge him. The Capitol rioters will also be judge by their peers and if found guilty the deserve to go to prison.

You all just can’t believe that someone who voted for Biden and against Trump is a gun owner, has police and first responders in their family, and works for what they have, is a bowhunter because you listen to the President and right wing media news propaganda who try to demonize any who disagrees. The left...the liberals, etc. You just sink further into the Trump/alt right cult. If you know anything about history we have an idea how that means got turn out.

I think Tate did a pretty good job explaining the fear tactics used every time a Democrat is in power and it never comes to fruition. I believe my own eyes and ears over NRA fear tactics. If there are future limitations on the 2A the SCOTUS will decide if it’s constitutional or not. I’m good with that.

Funny how all the dems called it the same thing. What’s even more ironic is the word play used to set the narrative for her to say that. A very direct threat that you vote for us or we will continue this. It would take a complete horses rearend to dismiss that.

The rioters in DC were wrong. Yet, you gotta ask, over statues and such, they were able to stop much higher numbers and violent rioters. They even shot people earlier in the summer that broke onto the White House grounds. And you can’t stop these people from entering the capital?

Anyways, wrong is wrong. Everyone here has said that. But, in true libtard fashion, That has been glazed over. Totally dismissed.

You gotta have a narrative in order for liberals to feel justified and righteous. The truth is never enough. So, it keeps getting dismissed in Recognition so they can accuse others of things that aren’t true. You see it here when the sheeple lap it up like gravy bone.

"Screw Trump but if you believe in his platform then find someone to push it who isn’t a destructive narcissist."

"There may have been some minor issues with states that didn't have the time they would have liked to set it up for the volume there was. Some Republicans doing their best to sabotage it ahead of time, didn't help, including Trump's attempt to hamstring the USPS."

KS, Ziek, my question never mentioned Trump. I'm referring to future election integrity. But since you mentioned it, I'm curious to see how this conversation would be going if the election had been overturned and Trump was reelected. I'll bet 5 bucks, that you wouldn't be saying, "eh, maybe next time!?"

I feel as though our election process needs to be overhauled, not mention, overseen by a non bias entity. I felt this way when my guy won, AND I felt this way when he lost. So, am I just off my rocker, and off my meds for thinking that way?

One officer is holding the door...

At least 6 standing back against the wall and watching them file through.

Willing to call China to the carpet on unfair trade.

Worked to further secure the border.

Continued to positive market and job trends.

He did work to fulfill his campaign promises better than most president (some I did not agree with but regardless he did push his agenda).

Improved some trade deals.

Improvements on generic drugs.

I’m sure there are others but those are off the top of my head. I don’t praise him for the tax cuts because the deficit issue and my net effective taxes actually went up under Trump because of the deductions that were wiped out. My tax rate did go down but I actually paid more in the end.

However, it is my opinion the further increase in the divide in this country grew greatly under Trump which is evident by the riots. I can’t get behind a leader who pushes conspiracies and doesn’t listen to his appointed experienced experts (many who came out against him). The lying (even the insignificant ones) was a red flag that Trump is an ineffective and dangerous leader. I think the Capitol riots were proof positive and reaffirmed my fears.

70lbs (or any Trump voter here)- Please prove me a list off the top of your head on any positives of the Obama administration. Can you and will you say anything positive about the last Democrat president?

You are full of crap and know better.

The officers had the same training and two of them tried to have Chauvin let him up.

I did not expect such BS from you. If you are so confident, take the bet. You know it was wrong and you are just playing to the crowd. Do you think your rogue officer’s training was to use lethal force if attacked and fearful of his safety. Your inconsistency speaks volumes of your mindset.

The hard right in this country is as big as a concern as the Squad and other leftist commies. Neither of you will be satisfied until you destroy this country.

I’ll just part by saying that I’m not your enemy and you are not mine. We disagree but I’m thankful we are in a country where we can disagree. Regardless of what any media tells you the “left” or the “right” do not fit in the nice little boxes they define. They, nor you, get to define me. They, nor I, define you. People are more complex than that as most things are shades of gray and not black and white.

Lastly, I’m still amazed at the forethought of our founding fathers with the genius of our Constitution. I just hope we keep leaning on it with the 3 branches of our government. If we do we will make it through this.

Take care.

By the way, none of the “Biden picks” for anything have ever been for the people.

Take a hard look at what has been done to censor free speech, destroy businesses, and impose restrictions to freedom. And by whom.

Certainly not the orange man.

This is authoritarian totalitarianism Marxist communism. Hope those who refuse to see it for what it is are happy with their decisions...

I did the same thing and erased it also. Carter, not sure how you could make money in that era. LMAO

Frank. Not sure how the GF Trial is going to come out due to politics but I have a good friend and client that is a Minneapolis Police LT and you owe Lou an apology

Not my worries but truth is truth. And if it prevails in MN the city will be completely burned down by peaceful protesters.

Off to watch football. All my picks won yesterday so I am a little up on money!! Maybe I won’t lose it all today

I didn't vote for Obama, but, (and of course I can't prove it) I did step back with a positive attitude, and see what he had to offer. My opinion is that Obama had the unique opportunity to throttle back the nation's racial tensions by starting a new dialogue and including everyone in the country. Obviously the opposite happened, and it only greased the rails of a rapid decline in civil unity.

My point here is the big picture. It has nothing to do with the candidates as much as the process. The lack of election clarity from either side of the isle is ruining this country. I can't imagine ever having to take up arms against my fellow countrymen. But it seems we inch closer to it with each election. I just don't understand the willingness to have your voice muffled, and life interrupted, in the name of identity politics.

Trying to justify the killing of Floyd while calling an officer under siege by a mob a “rogue” will make people ask why. Is it because the latter is a Trump supporter? Is it because of race?

Numerous employers are firing people who have come out in support of these riots. They get it, violence is never the answer to disagreement over political discourse, it is unacceptable.

I say those that lack the moral conviction to condemn Wednesday’s action owe an apology to all Americans.

Understanding why it happened is a big stretch from supporting it.

Ziek obviously can’t read the tweets that Trump sent out telling everyone to not he violent or break the law. None of us can because Twitter removed his account.

I asked a question quite a few posts back about Parker being dropped by google. And, the ramifications of doing so. With no warning. Only because it has become the outspoken home of unbiased speech. No answer on that from the “fair and just” bunch. Just more babble.

Yep, you Lefties and sell out for the party republicans sure are a level headed bunch. Silence who you can’t beat. Lie until you believe it to be the truth. Then type words of how you rationalize it.

All the while blaming a guy for what you all are in personality and nature. Maybe that’s why you guys hate trump so much. You are just like him.

Justin, did you see 60 minutes tonight? Your thoughts?

Regarding social media private censorship...I am very concerned. Is there any chance that behind the scenes this is being coordinated to prevent as much as possible the coordination and organizing of a more violent protest on January 20th? If not, even though I am a small government guy, I would invite government to establish some regulatory oversight with a board comprised of equal balance.

I appreciate being asked questions instead of having accusations tossed around.

Frank, I didn’t see it.

What is your point? That because the left was there, it's ok? Are you now agreeing with the Left? Or are you admitting that those who did this are the enemy of the United States?

What would your thoughts be if it was BLM protest that broke into our Capitol during a session changing "Hang Pence" with gallows setup outside? Would you guys be ok with it? I know for certain I would be as furious as I am now. It's sickening. They used an American flag to beat a Capitol police officer and then paraded the flag of a failed rebellion/confederacy in the halls of our Capitol. There were hundreds more MAGA and Trump flags than there were United States flags. They were not fighting for the USA, they were fighting for one man. This is not how the USA works. It is shameful.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It was shut down for spreading incendiary lies, supporting a criminal President! Just like it's illegal to yell fire in a crowded area when there isn't any.

But your rhetoric is counter productive to YOUR goals. Trump didn't win the popular vote in 2016, and he didn't win it in 2020. And many of the votes he got were from domestic terrorists that he courted. There has been a movement to drop the electoral college in favor of the popular vote, and that will surely gain momentum now. Trump and all his enablers are losing more and more support even among Republicans. We can debate Trump's "accomplishments" all day long. But his legacy is as the ONLY American President to try to remain in power by force. That is the fact. The only way forward is to accept that, do what's right and required, and move on. The alternative is to be painted with the same brush, and move farther into an ever increasing minority.

Many of us put up with the nightmare of Trump for four years. But we respected the system and our Country. All we ask is that you do the same.

Almost all the members on here are hunters, both with bows and guns. Biden has said numerous times ( on video ) he's for strict gun control and gun confiscation in America. Let that sink in. Believe what you want to believe I really don't care. Like I said before I'm not democrat or republican.

I wander if libtards are capable of absorbing the news.

I saw where MTV reporters released videos of the Trump mob ousting vandals for doing it. Trying to help the police. Calling the looters Antifia. Then I saw where police unlocked and met the mobs in. Something really doesn’t make sense here.

Anyways, I think it’s important to note that while many of the accusations thrown around here are rants to relieve emotions, we also have to remember that what the MSM is feeding us, is likely what they e been doing for the last couple decades. Only showing you what fits their agenda.

There are tons of info coming through every hour that says there is more to this then appears. While Trump supporters are no better then Antifia if they resort to the same tactics, I wouldn’t hang my hat on this being what the media is pitching. Yet anyways.

And, you hypocrites now believe Trump when he says he will 'try to remain in power' after inauguration, but,have never believed on word he uttered or tweeted up until now? NONE of you thinking this way have any credibility with anyone smart enough to see right through it.

Senator Kamala Harris applauded the rioters. In June, amid the burning and looting of large swaths of Minneapolis, she said the riots were "not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not." Then she raised money to bail rioters out of jail.

Seattle mayor Jenny Durkan called Seattle's Antifa autonomous zone a "summer of love" before five people died. Two months after the riots began, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley called for more "unrest in the streets." Vice President Joe Biden did not condemn the rioting for weeks.

Along the way, "progressive" district attorneys have avoided prosecuting rioters. "Insignificant" crimes like arson, looting, and assaulting a police officer will not land a rioter in jail. Often, D.A.s refuse even to charge them. When serial rioters commit more serious crimes, such as throwing a Molotov cocktail at a police officer, charges are reduced or dropped.

In short, Democrat politicians have condoned, rationalized, or ignored rioting by their supporters. It's no surprise that these riots continue. On the night of January 6, Antifa punched the Portland mayor, attacked a county courthouse, and smashed local businesses for the third time this year.

The BLM/Antifa riots are important context for the Capitol riots and the response of Republican leadership.

On the morning of January 6, many thousands of President Trump's supporters gathered near the Capitol. After a speech by the president, they marched to the Capitol grounds. Many stayed there, protesting outside. But several hundred people (including some with Antifa links) pushed past barriers and into the Capitol itself. Along the way, they assaulted dozens of police officers, smashed windows and cabinets, and looted several pieces of property, including a podium and a laptop.

Police officer Brian Sicknick died of injuries after a clash with a rioter. An unarmed Trump-supporter, Ashli Babbitt, died after an officer shot her in the neck. That shooting was questionable — a barrier separated the officer from Ms. Babbitt, and other officers were only a few feet behind her when he fired.

It's worth noting that while some Trump-supporters were rioting, others were merely protesting. Capitol police officers recognized this fact and opened the doors to the Capitol, saying they respected Trump-supporters' "right [to protest]."

The occupation of the Capitol led Congress to evacuate its chambers, interrupting the certification of Electoral College votes. When police cleared the Capitol several hours later, Congress reconvened and completed the certification that same night.

The Capitol riots were serious and violent. But by any measure — death, injury, destruction, criminality — the BLM/Antifa riots were much worse.

The left avoids direct comparisons between the riots and instead implies that Trump-supporters are particularly despicable because they occupied a government building during a formal electoral ceremony.

The problem is that BLM and Antifa often attack public buildings. In June, leftists celebrated reports that rioters near the White House forced Trump into a bunker. Democrats also stormed the Senate building during Justice Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings and occupied the Wisconsin capitol in an attempt to block legislation. Finally, the Capitol riots were not particularly disruptive. Trump-supporters delayed the electoral certification for a few hours. It was, at most, a symbolic gesture.

Now, after months of encouraging and rationalizing BLM and Antifa riots, Democrats condemn Trump-supporters and the Capitol riots in the harshest possible terms. "Treason," "coup," "insurrection," "sedition," "terrorism" — there has been plenty of hysteria.

This is wild hypocrisy. But hypocrisy is normal. Bias or bad faith often leads partisans to condemn opponents for the same behavior they excuse in their supporters.

What is more interesting — and concerning — is Republican leadership's own hysterical response. Borrowing from Democrats, Ted Cruz called Capitol rioters and protesters "terrorists." Tom Cotton and Mitt Romney said they were insurrectionists. Lindsey Graham called for the arrest of everyone who entered the Capitol and raised the possibility of sedition charges. The RNC's communications director called the riots "domestic terrorism."

These statements are overbroad and melodramatic. They fail to distinguish between rioters and protesters. They also falsely imply that anyone who smashed a window is a terrorist, cheapening the term.

What explains Republicans' eagerness to join the left's hysteria? It stems, at least in part, from a basic failure to identify with their voters.

Many Democrats identify with BLM/Antifa rioters and see their violence as, at worst, justifiable anger that goes a step too far — in other words, a matter of bad tactics.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez explained rising violent crime in New York by citing parents' need to "shoplift bread" for their children. As for the BLM/Antifa riots, the congresswoman said that "[i]f you are calling for an end to this unrest ... but you are not calling for the end of the conditions that created the unrest, you are a hypocrite." In a similar vein, Congresswoman Pressley justified BLM/Antifa riots by explaining that "unrest in our lives" caused "unrest in the streets."

Many Republican leaders seem incapable of relating to their supporters' anger. Based on video and initial arrest reports, most protesters were white, and most were from outside D.C. Some were contractors, some owned small restaurants, others were low-level employees — all people whom lockdowns have harmed.

Most people at the Capitol were normal Americans with legitimate questions about election irregularities. These people have a deep loyalty to a president who is not ashamed to call them his supporters and has consistently put working- and middle-class Americans first on issues of immigration, international trade, and foreign policy.

These Trump-supporters are rightly fearful that Democrats — and many Republicans — are eager for a return to the pre-Trump era in which both parties joined in selling out to China, flooding America with foreign workers, and draining our treasury to fight for someone else's democracy.

Trump-supporters' fears do not justify riots. But they do justify vocal protest. Perhaps that's why a snap poll on the night of January 6 found that a plurality of Republicans approved the "storming" of the Capitol.

After four years of the president's record-setting popularity with rank-and-file Republicans, leaders like Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, and Lindsey Graham still cannot grasp Trump's appeal and his supporters' concerns. Perhaps it's because they spend too much time in the D.C. bubble. Perhaps it's a class issue.

Whatever their issue, they need to fix it. Quickly. A good first step is working to understand the Republican base. A good second step is refusing to echo the left by calling everyone at the Capitol "terrorists."

Republican leaders must do the following with respect to the protests and riots at the Capitol:

First, condemn violence and call for the prosecution of anyone who attacked police or damaged property.

Second, describe the riots and protests in sane, measured tones. Point out that Capitol Police recognized many of those on the Capitol grounds as legitimate protestors. Object to the prosecution of anyone who did nothing more than walk through the building. Stop labeling protesters "domestic terrorists." Demand an investigation into the killing of Ashli Babbitt.

Third, acknowledge Trump-supporters' anger and assure them that the Republican Party will fight for its base. People are suffering and scared — scared of never-ending lockdowns, a changing economy, an all-powerful Democrat party that calls them deplorable, and a weak Republican party that seems eager to abandon them.

Fourth, constantly point out the difference between Republicans' and Democrats' responses to political violence. Republicans issued quick and forceful denunciations of their supporters' rioting. Many Democrats still refuse to do likewise.

There is a big difference between investigation and insurrection. The investigation into Russian interference in 2016 election was warranted and that’s why the special counsel was appointed by the TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. Manaford, Stone, Flynn, Cohen all should be in prison for lying to investigators. Instead most of them got a crony pardon.

It appears to me that the system worked. I wonder why nobody has been prosecuted for the FISA warrant? Likely because the TRUMP AG knows he would never get a conviction.

Like it of not Russia did interfere in the 2016 election.

Some of you are delusional on this thread. You think you stand on higher ground on intelligence when you’re the ones who fall for the ridiculous conspiracy theories and Trump lies. Over 50 courts and the SCOTUS said there was no credible evidence of widespread election fraud but you still gobble up Trumps lies based on BS. He and you can repeat the same BS over and over but it’s the same ole lie in the end. Only the weak-minded fall for the mental reprogramming through the repeated lie. Trump has done this time and time again from the birther crap to election fraud lies in 2016 & 2020.

Trump lost a fair election and the 3rd branch (courts) of our democracy backed it up. He lost over 50 court cases and yet you all follow the demagogue lies. That plainly is just weak mindedness.

“Thou shalt not bear false witness” - Jesus Christ

You forgot to also mention the lack of credible evidence too. Also the blistering from Republican appointed judges on the Trump “legal” team for lack of evidence.

That’s the problem with lies that have legal implications...eventually they go to court where lies and hearsay are not evidence. This is exactly what happened with Trumps voter fraud lies. He can’t back it up with credible evidence.

That’s the problem with lies that have legal implications...eventually they go to court where lies and hearsay are not evidence. This is exactly what happened with Trumps voter fraud lies. He can’t back it up with credible evidence.”

Utterly dishonest comments!

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court violated the Pennsylvania Constitution and all your lying will not change that fact. Only a complete idiot would believe Joe Biden legally received 80 Million votes.

I absolutely believe Biden beat Trump in the popular vote and electoral vote. But it doesn’t matter what you or I believe. Biden will be inaugurated as our next president regardless of what you believe.

Elkmtngear- that was from 2019. I’d say that is the system at work. It appears an appeals court did not agree though (See link). The courts interpret the constitution. Not the legislative or executive branch. Seriously, it’s in the Constitution...I assume it’s the same in the Pennsylvania constitution.

Talk about lack of intelligence. Colorado's 3rd Congressional district sent a completely unqualified, high school drop out, Trumpublican to congress. Her ONLY qualification was that she wore a pistol on her hip while campaigning. She's only been in Washington for a couple of weeks, and is already under investigation for helping the mob.

When are you going to understand that you are NOT helping your/our cause?

Do you believe it's "OK" for unidentified people to flood the State with over 200, 000 ballots, because a Liberal Governor changed the rules ? Wisconsin needs to pull their Electors.

Her job is to offset AOC and her constituents. What was AOC's qualifications? Oh yeah, bartender? or something like that...LOL...

Nor are those that masquerade as conservatives or republicans and are basically an echo of all things democrat.

I'm constantly told the people have spoken and time to accept Biden and unite. Well the people in Boebert's district spoke as well. So far not much accepting and uniting from the other side in her case.

What is worse than the trolls on this forum???

The ones thar feed them. Just food for thought guys. The trolls are sitting back and pushing you guys buttons and laughing out loud at you.

Simply put, it does not support there agenda. They are pushing for massive insurrection, so they can shred the constitution, and take total control. They have already attacked the 1st. The second is next.

For all the lefties here, touting how much better we will be under these 2 clowns and the swamp, why don't you lead by example and line up to surrender your firearms now?

Practice what you preach!

I don't remember anything like this happening to the antifa thugs who trashed our cities last summer. Many were not even prosecuted. All were given a nod and wink by the MSM and those same dems who are in power now. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

One certainty is for sure though. Things change. And the ramifications of this stolen election is going to have severe consequences. The party with the violent, biased, one way only outlook is bent on getting further gun restrictions. Further taxes on EVERYTHING. They were shown over the last 12 years every law and government entity will bend the rules to allow them to fulfill their agenda. With absolutely zero recourse. And there is not one check in place to stop them over the next two years.

Yes, there is some huge money being thrown around by worldwide interests to ensure this country shifts away from more freedom individually to more control by government. To Keep us common folk inline so we can pay our taxes and make them richer and more dominate. It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s human nature at play.

You are either working towards that or standing against it. China, Iran, Russia, and your legislative branch are working hard to get you to conform. Find solace in the redneck conspiracy theorists who refuses to jump in line with what is considered proper action by our beloved government. Because every single person responsible for the founding of this country was considered a radical by their government and the sheeple who ate from their trough.

We are rounding the corner. Somethings going to change. It has to. We are either going to get in line or, get on the line as a country. Because living like a slave ain’t for a lot of us. God put me here for a reason. Just like you. And, it wasn’t to fulfill agenda contrary to his commandments or teachings. Give Caesar what is his but, there was in no way a message that we are to be enslaved by doing so.

By the way...check out the latest comments from China regarding our current situation. Then, you tell me if the timing of this f'n virus isn't way too convenient?!

C’mon man.

The virus started this whole new arena of voting by mail. In places there never was voting by mail. Which prompted rule changes in elections. Many of which violated state statue. Which allowed for a known fraud in ballots post dated. Which involved eye witness testimony of voter fraud being directed by bosses of mail handlers. Which involved videos of boxes of ballots that appeared out from under tables after counting stopped for the night.

Ironically none of the court cases developed from these issues, would be addressed by the US Supreme Court. Because of error procedures needing to be addressed by the states in question first. Which led to a guy that is a personable as a brick, except to women of all ages that he can fondle under the disguise of being a touchy feely kind of guy, who campaigned on raised taxes and attacking the 2nd amendment, who couldn’t put more then 600 people at any rally, getting more votes then any candidate in history. When at any other time in history, this approach for the office of POTUS, has proven to be a failing attempt.

The courts in states didn’t hear the cases. It’s impossible to prove anything fishy about the voting. Except the eye witness testimony, in such a short order. So, we were told to suck it up, you get Joe. We will fix the voting issue after Trump is gone.

And knowing all this, which isn’t just my opinion, except on the origin and reason for the virus, we’ve got people that see no problem with it. I can’t imagine anyone not urging all judicial appointees to get to the bottom of this elections discrepancies regardless of who you voted for. Nope, They’ll take Joe and what he promises gladly over Trump. Because he hurt their feelings. SMH. And these people still call themselves relevant. My feelings. Wouldn’t want to hurt ‘em.

But the President of the United States of America and those (American or not) who want justice and speak against a certain party or person(s) have been banned.... Let that sink in.......

There’s a contradiction in terms. Facts can be proven true or false. Opinions are feelings that are unproven. This is exactly the root cause why we are where we are today in my OPINION.

Trax, exactly my feeling of the whole mess and how I have felt and stated to others. Demo's are the biggest cry baby, snot nosed little kid whiners I have ever seen. It made me sick enough that I had to stop watching any media TV, especially any of the big "news" shows.

January 12, 2021 5:19 PM The following is the Jan. 12, 2021 message to U.S. troops from the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.

[signed]

Mark A. Milley General, U.S. Army Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

John E. Hyten General, U.S. Air Force Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

James C. McConville General, U.S. Army Chief of Staff of the Army

David H. Berger General, U.S. Marine Corps Commandant of the Marine Corps

Michael M. Gilday Admiral, U.S. Navy Chief of Naval Operations

Charles Q. Brown, Jr. General, U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff of the Air Force

John W. Raymond General, U.S. Space Force Chief of Space Operations

Daniel R. Hokanson General, U.S. Army Chief of the National Guard Bureau

If we lose free speech, we lose the only peaceful tool to get it back. Having to hear something that is wrong or against my values is far better than people not having the right to say it.

Trump needs to fade away. The divide began widening during Obama’s terms and Trump did nothing to bring the country closer together, in fact he made it worse and I didn’t think that was possible. I voted for the egotistical slime ball because the alternative seemed worse. History will prove if this turns out to be true but I’ll be voting red in two years for sure with hope the Congress can be flipped.

If you voted against them, It’s went from being bitter over race, guns and religion to being so dumb you can’t possibly choose what’s best for America. Yet, you say Trump’s made it worse. Because the half that was alienated got a voice? What friggin’ planet do you live on?

Maybe Trump didn’t do anything to resolve the issue by refusing to cower. Maybe him calling people names didn't defuse it. But, saying he made it worse is woefully ignorant of cause and effect in my opinion.

Hmmmmm...sounds a lot like the Federal Constitution process to me.

What happened was, the governor didn’t think the Legislature went far enough. He went to the legislature and he said, you know the signature requirements, we really shouldn’t have that, the postmark requirements, we really don’t need that, these other requirements that it has to be in by election day, there ought to be a few more days after election day where we can count the ballots, and the legislature said, no, no, we’re not going to do that. He said, oh yes you are.

So he winds up going to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania.

The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania has seven justices. A couple of years ago they had an election for three justices, the republicans really weren’t paying attention to it, the democrats were, and they backed three hardcore leftists for the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. Among other things, they were thinking of 2020.

The labor unions poured in a fortune, the teacher unions poured in fortune, the usual groups poured in a fortune, and they won all three seats. And now the makeup of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court is, as I said the members are elected, is five to two Democrat. And the Democrats, when it comes to election law, those five stick together. Much like the three Democrats and John Roberts on the US Supreme Court.

So, what did the Democrats do? They said, well you know what, we have a good idea, a few months before the election, they said, yes, no signatures required, you don’t need signature comparisons, you don’t need a postal date, and if the postal date is smudged, you are to count it anyway, oh and yes, even though election day ends on Tuesday at 8pm ET, we are going to extend it to 5pm ET on Friday.

They had no legal or constitutional basis for doing any of that.

So they violated Article II Section 1 Clause 2 of the United States Constitution which leaves the power to the state legislature to make the election laws.

Now let’s circle back, stay with me here, the reason why reporters don’t cover this is either they are left-wing, or they’re too stupid to follow this.

The moment the state legislature in October 2019 passed the change to its election laws with mail-in voting as the base, they violated the state constitution of Pennsylvania. Now, why is that?

Under the constitution of Pennsylvania, if there are to be any election law changes, you have to amend the constitution. Did they amend the constitution? No. What’s required to amend the constitution of Pennsylvania? It’s very complicated.

There needs to be a majority vote of both houses of the state legislature, not once, but twice. Then there needs to be a respite. Then there needs to be ads in at least two papers in every county in Pennsylvania, all 67 counties, then there needs to be a respite.

Then, finally, the citizenry of Pennsylvania get to vote on whether or not they want the amendment, it has to be on the ballot. Did that happen? No, it didn’t happen. The citizenry of Pennsylvania, we talk about disenfranchisement, they weren’t asked to vote on this change in election laws for mail-in ballots let alone all these other changes that the supreme court made, they weren’t asked at all, they were utterly disenfranchised.

So the state legislature in October 2019 acted unconstitutionally. The governor, by signing it, acted unconstitutionally. The state supreme court by changing even the unconstitutional law acted unconstitutionally, plus violated Article II.

Those are the facts!!!

1.) Constitution clearly states it must be amended to Change election laws.

2.) there’s a specific intricate process to do this.

3.) the Constitution was not amended as prescribed by law

4.) only the Pennsylvania legislature can change laws

5.) none of these steps were taken, this means Constitution was illegally violated.

Trublucolo and WvMountaineer. You guys nailed it.

Please provide the exact language in the Penn constitution that says this.

I have searched to find any where the U.S. SC found what happened in PA a violation of their Constitution. I have only found where the Justices had no dissenters in their refusal to hear challenges. I admit that I am no law school graduate like you must be, or never passed the Bar as I am sure you have.

Where did you go to law school? Kind of curious if the name calling is part of their curriculum?

Here is the problem. A debate on these issues in this setting is like trying to build a sky scraper with a pocket knife - frustrating as heck.

I can not bring facts: because information not ordained by Trump or hyper partisan far right R's is considered invalid. I can not bring facts: because they dont matter (see previous statement). We can not discuss nuance: because the media form is difficult for that, and the last two points.

I thought there were more, but each I wrote I deleted because it's summed up above.

In the end I've been losing the desire to debate on these topics, because it's not a debate. Since Trump has created an environment where by only he knows the "Truth" and one must be fully committed to his truth or be branded a moronic democommiedolt... Well, there really isn't a debate to be had.

A few times I've glanced and thought of all sorts of fun things to discuss. Then just stopped, closed that browser window or hit the back button and went to look for fun hunting stuff to learn about or talk about.

But, I agree on something. Lets just get on with deciding Biden is illegitimate if that rationalization lets people move on with life. I do that with Marjorie Taylor Green all the time. I mean, hey, if all those ballots are invalid, I can enjoy believing she's illegitimate too. That feels good.

If you guys are right and things go horridly then in 2 years the Legislature is going red and in 4 you likely get the white house back.

Suggested title. Biden’s first 100 days success and failures.

If he does nothing like the last 47years of public service then we should be good .

FWIW, you don’t have to be a zealot to distinguish that our election process has to have the faith and support of the people. And, while it’s easy to suggest the political side an individual stands on will determine whether they believe the election was accurate, it’s just not true.

The 2019 Pennsylvania vote-by-mail law violates Article VII, sec. 14 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, which lists only four classes of voters entitled to vote absentee: those who cannot vote in person because of work, physical incapacity, religious obligation, or (in the case of county employees) election-related duties. In violation of this constitutional provision, the Pennsylvania vote-by-mail law (Act 77), as described by a 2019 press release from the Pennsylvania governor’s office, “creates a new option to vote by mail without providing an excuse.” Whatever the benefits of such a change in voting law, it could not be legally accomplished without an amendment to the Pennsylvania Constitution.

Secondly the Pa. Supreme Court illegally extended voting, removed signature validation, postmark mandates, and so on.

Kind of like 100 people witness a man shoot someone and kill them and your position is well a judge hasn’t found him guilty yet so it didn’t happen.

“1.) Constitution clearly states it must be amended to Change election laws.”

Please provide the exact language in the Penn constitution that says this.

The SC refused to hear that the PA Constitution was violated, by anyone. I read just fine. Your objectivity has proven time and again to be the same as the guy you worship.

It’s actually the other way around. The left are the ones canceling anyone or anything they don’t agree with. MSM only reports the party line with the intend on political advantage. They twist the narrative to achieve an end (remember the peaceful protests). If anyone differs they are a racist subject to job loss, ridicule and scorn. Big tech companies are now censoring any opinion or fact that opposes liberal dogma and have stated that this is just the beginning.

Anything outside of leftist orthodoxy we are told is invalid.

To blame Trump and Republicans exclusively for the sad state our country is in is not accurate. It’s actually part of the left wing narrative.

Thankfully half of the country can see right through it.