Sitka Mountain Gear
Yes or no making P&Y #2
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
pav 20-Dec-20
Charlie Rehor 20-Dec-20
Scooby-doo 20-Dec-20
Drnaln 20-Dec-20
Chief 419 20-Dec-20
BR 20-Dec-20
John in MO / KY 20-Dec-20
Jaquomo 20-Dec-20
petedrummond 20-Dec-20
sticksender 20-Dec-20
Kurt 20-Dec-20
kentuckbowhnter 20-Dec-20
SteveB 20-Dec-20
pav 20-Dec-20
sticksender 21-Dec-20
pav 21-Dec-20
Jasper 21-Dec-20
Lee 21-Dec-20
Kodiak 21-Dec-20
NY Bowman 21-Dec-20
t-roy 21-Dec-20
lewis 21-Dec-20
IdyllwildArcher 21-Dec-20
midwest 22-Dec-20
ohiohunter 22-Dec-20
BULELK1 23-Dec-20
pav 23-Dec-20
sticksender 23-Dec-20
KSflatlander 23-Dec-20
njbuck 23-Dec-20
sticksender 23-Dec-20
Shawn 23-Dec-20
12yards 23-Dec-20
papadeerhtr 24-Dec-20
Tonybear61 27-Dec-20
pav 05-Jan-21
altitude sick 05-Jan-21
Charlie Rehor 05-Jan-21
t-roy 05-Jan-21
Chief 419 05-Jan-21
Kurt 05-Jan-21
midwest 05-Jan-21
Drnaln 05-Jan-21
pav 05-Jan-21
Drnaln 05-Jan-21
From: pav
20-Dec-20

pav's embedded Photo
pav's embedded Photo
My son killed this buck on November 3rd in Indiana. Typical six point on the left and 8 scoreable points on the right...including a 3rd main beam. Does this buck make P&Y (typical or non-typical) or not? FYI, if I understand the P&Y scoring system correctly, this is NOT a joke...

20-Dec-20
What a great buck. Smile says it all.

Perhaps he had two Dads:) Dad on left antler was a typical, blue blood, educated at Harvard buck. Right antler Dad was a fighter and left high school before graduating to pursue a career in MMA.

PS: My guess is it has more than 15” of abnormal points so scores as a NT and sneaks in. The NT minimum is high at 155” so we’ll see. I think I know where you’re going with this one.. it’s a buck I would love to have on my wall.

From: Scooby-doo
20-Dec-20
I think it will make it either way and I thought(??) the person who took the animal can choose how they want it entered but not sure of that. Thats 14 points so I bet it scores better as a NT than a typical although the 2 extra points seem like the NT points! Shawn

From: Drnaln
20-Dec-20
Great buck.....I hope it makes P&Y. Probably only chance would be as a NT. All depends what the typical main frame nets. I hope it isn't one of those bucks that slip thru the system cracks.

From: Chief 419
20-Dec-20
I think this buck makes it as a non-typical. It appears to have 15"+ and should make the book. Regardless, hell of a buck and one most guys would love to have.

From: BR
20-Dec-20
He will make it!!!

20-Dec-20
Awesome buck either way!

From: Jaquomo
20-Dec-20
What a nice buck!

From: petedrummond
20-Dec-20
Great buck

From: sticksender
20-Dec-20
Great buck. Need side view pic of right.

From: Kurt
20-Dec-20
He should be close to being a NT net P&Y buck. My guess is 130” of typical net plus over 20” of NT points but really can’t see the right antler to make a decent estimate. A heck of a lot of typical deductions as he doesn’t match up well. That left antler is something as a typical and the right is a heck of NT.

Great deer! Heck who cares what he scores!

20-Dec-20
just score him out gross and call it good, great buck.

From: SteveB
20-Dec-20
Gonna be close as a non-typical...but even if not, a buck most guys would love to have a chance at!

From: pav
20-Dec-20

pav's embedded Photo
pav's embedded Photo
This is the best photo of the rack I have. The right side is a 4pt frame with a split brow tine, extra main bean with one longer point and a shorter point coming off the back (not visible). To be clear, I'm just posting this for fun....piggybacking off Teeton's thread, but from a different angle.

From: sticksender
21-Dec-20
Ahhhhh......yeah a 4 pt frame, with asymmetry, won't do any favors to the net score. But those big bases and decent carry of mass should help. If the shorter beam is 23 and the shorter-side matching tines are 5-9-6, and he has 16 inches of net mass per side, and the spread is say about 18, that gives you a net typical frame of roughly 136. Those are all complete guesses, but if that's anywhere close, then adding the 4 abnormal tines might put him over 155 net.

Would be curious if this buck got injured in a prior year, distorting the growth of his rack in that way.

From: pav
21-Dec-20
We've hunted the same farm pushing 30 years. Have seen some 3rd beam genetics in the past, but nothing like him. Found out after the fact, this buck grew up and lived on a neighboring farm. We had him on a trail camera four days before my son shot him. That was our only knowledge of this deer. Neighbors aged him at 6-1/2, possibly 7-1/2 years old...with a similar rack configuration since maturity. They had lots of trail cam photos and a few close calls over the years. He was actually bigger a year ago.

From: Jasper
21-Dec-20
Great buck either way it’s scored! Congratulations to you and your son!

From: Lee
21-Dec-20
Regardless that is a cool bucks! Be happy to shoot one just like him!

Lee

From: Kodiak
21-Dec-20
Great deer regardless of score.

From: NY Bowman
21-Dec-20
Awesome deer Paul. Congratulations to your son.

From: t-roy
21-Dec-20
Non typicals can be kinda tough. Typical vs non typical points can be subjective sometimes. I’m gonna guess he grosses plenty high enough, but won’t net it. Totally just a guess, though.

From: lewis
21-Dec-20
Great buck he makes it in my book congrats to the hunter Lewis

21-Dec-20
Cool looking buck

From: midwest
22-Dec-20
What a great buck, Paul. Cool factor is off the charts. Congrats to your son!

From: ohiohunter
22-Dec-20
Did Ed Waite score this deer for buckmasters? I can’t make out the picture well enough to confirm.

From: BULELK1
23-Dec-20
What a dang nice buck Paul

Congrats to your Son,

Robb

From: pav
23-Dec-20
Thanks everyone! My son is absolutely ecstatic with this buck, regardless of score. He's hoping the buck makes P&Y...probably due his old man's long term affiliation with the club more than anything. :^)

To date, the only person to put a tape on the rack is me. I've never scored a NT whitetail before, so the confidence level in my measurements is not great. I have the buck at 183"+ gross green antler, no chance at net typical and net non-typical too close to call. The buck is scheduled for official measurement the first week in January.

From: sticksender
23-Dec-20
That's such a fantastic buck! A guy could always kill a small 3 Y-O clean typical 5x5 and get one in the book, but I'd gladly take a gnarly & old NT buck like him every time, regardless of the potential score.

From: KSflatlander
23-Dec-20
Nice buck. It would make it.

From: njbuck
23-Dec-20
That is an amazing buck and would love to have one just like that on my wall. Congrats! I am a long time pope and young member and will continue to support them, that said I don't agree with deductions, in my mind if the deer grows it, it should count. Nothing is perfect in this world.

23-Dec-20
Nice buck, and makes my book.

From: sticksender
23-Dec-20
FWIW, the Pope & Young system records and accounts for every inch of antler, including side-to-side asymmetry and all score-able abnormal tines. Members can do an on-line records search for any species, such as WT deer, and sort all entries by "gross score" from high to low if you wish. For official all-time records ranked by "score", the B&C/P&Y system rewards perfection & symmetry for typical class heads, and rewards abnormal growth for NT class heads. IMO that seems fair enough for any record-keeping system. But you can also see the all-time ranking of every P&Y entry by "gross score", if you want to.

From: Shawn
23-Dec-20
So he looses 50 inches as a typical? I have one that lost 35 inches when scored as a typical. Still think it sucks that they lose anything. Shawn

From: 12yards
23-Dec-20
If that one don't make it, something is wrong with the scoring system. LOL. That's a beautiful buck.

From: papadeerhtr
24-Dec-20
Yep hes in the book either way typical or non typical. That is a awesome buck congrats

From: Tonybear61
27-Dec-20
If P &Y doesn't take it try SCI, either way a great buck. Some folks like weird antlers, plus the story thats behind it that counts anyway.

From: pav
05-Jan-21
The verdict is in....my son's buck did indeed qualify for P&Y with an official net non-typical score of 161-0/8ths (his first P&Y qualifier). Better score than we were expecting due to an incorrect assumption on my part. Official measurer spotted my error right away. Just goes to prove, official P&Y measurers are certified to score animals for a reason!

05-Jan-21
Sticksender was very close for a not so easy to guess photo.

05-Jan-21
pav: Great news and your comment about “official measurers” is right on. Most deer can be estimated (by hunters) by following the score sheet directions and using the proper tools but when abnormal points occur you need to know the proper procedures.

Congrats to your son and the guy that mentored him.

From: t-roy
05-Jan-21
Good deal, Paul. Congrats to your son!

From: Chief 419
05-Jan-21
Congrats to your son and thanks for following up with the official score. Great looking deer.

From: Kurt
05-Jan-21
Heck of a buck! Congratulations!

From: midwest
05-Jan-21
Sorry it didn't make P&Y #2 but still a great deer! ;-)

Congrats again to your son, Paul!

From: Drnaln
05-Jan-21
Congratulations to your son.....Did the scorer call any tines on left antler Non-Typical?

From: pav
05-Jan-21
Yes, that was my scoring error. The left side tine I scored as a G3 was actually a non-typical point originating at the base of the G2 rather than off the main beam. Wasn't even on my radar. The measurer pointed it out right away. Made sense after he explained it.

From: Drnaln
05-Jan-21
Pav....Good news. When I looked at the photo the tine spacing & angle off the beam looked like it could go NT. It's a judgement call by the scorer but I'm glad it worked out. Congratulations again on a really nice buck.

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