Piebald button buck pic, same area. Unsure of when exactly pic is from, at least 4-5 years ago. Different color pattern, could a piebalds color change over time, or is this a different deer?
Piebald button buck pic, same area. Unsure of when exactly pic is from, at least 4-5 years ago. Different color pattern, could a piebalds color change over time, or is this a different deer?
Pretty much just sharing a great looking piebald buck from upstate NY. He is completely free range, but lives on a campus where you can't hunt. Ironically there is quite an expanse of public hunting land within a few hundred yards of where this was taken. I have seen the pics & videos pop up online and say it was from other states, not correct as i am the one who took them. Lots of local folks have seen him, a local legend.
Anyway two questions: 1) Does a piebald's coloration change over the years? A friend sent me a picture of a beautiful piebald button buck on same campus 4 or 5 years ago, but it has alot more white on it than this buck. Could it be the same deer? I will say piebalds are not more common here than anyplace, so they definitely stand out and there are no other piebald bucks running around that we have seen.
2) We are debating score, range from high 140's to high 160's. Issue is that he is like a mainframe 8pt. So great main beams and mass, but other than G2's lacks tines and tine length to score high.
Gorgeous buck! My guess would be the fawn is a different deer. Like you stated, lots more white on the fawn. Total WAG on my part, though. I’d say he will score a lot closer to 160s” than 140s”. What’s the legality on shooting piebalds in NY? I believe they cannot be more than 50% white in Iowa. I would have no hesitation shooting that buck!
I’ve seen a lot of multi colored dogs change this significant in color from puppy to adult hood. I had a dog that was 90% black as a puppy end up 70% tan.
I think that is a bit more likely statistically than it being two different deer . Just my guess, could be a bad comparison
i know for a fact that at least in fish the piebald pattern can change over time. Working on my thesis project in Alaska I caught a piebald Dolly Varden char about 5 inches long. It had a wonderful palomino pattern over its whole body. I kept it and raised it up in a tank in the lab. It ate well and in the next two years was about 12 inches or so but its color changed dramatically. By that time it only had about 5 percent of its buddy was while Initially more than half of its body was white. I also trained it to jump through hoops - bad that is another story.
Might be totally different in mammals. Aren't palomino horses piebald? I don't think they change?
I’m not expert but normal fawns have spots and get darker. Is it possible the fawn got darker. I would think the odds of two piebald deer on the same area are astronomical. I’d says he’s a solid 150s. I’ll officially guess 157”.
I’ve seen a lot of multi colored dogs change this significant in color from puppy to adult hood. I had a dog that was 90% black as a puppy end up 70% tan.
I think that is a bit more likely statistically than it being two different deer . Just my guess, could be a bad comparison
In the picture that buck is every bit 160. Lots of mass inches there. Beautiful animal. In the videos he is definitely not 160. Maybe 145. But cool buck nonetheless.
For some strange reason piebalds and white deer seem to have a thing for me since catching a wild white piebald fawn as a young man (photo attached) and have seen quite a few over the years both wild and captive... Years ago wrote an article for North American Whitetail Magazine's special edition "Weird Whitetails" and researched "albinism".... Anyhow, piebalds may change a few hairs or maybe a small patch or two here and there each coat shedding season, but highly doubt that fawn and mature buck are the same deer, too much difference... If they are from the same area, it's highly likely they are geneticly linked though... Short legs, Roman noses, and overbites along with other deformities are common with piebalds... A big B&C class piebald I chased for a year over a decade ago had a long overbite...
Ollie.....piebald deer ARE legal game in Iowa, as long as less than 50% of their coloration is white. The hard part would be getting close enough to measure;-)
Really sad that some states give piebalds and albinos “sacred cow” status. Biologists have long concluded they are genetically inferior. Unfortunately the coloration often isn’t the only defect, some also have - deafness, scoliosis, short/deformed legs and/or hooves, severe overbite, etc. They’re cool to look at but letting them breed is not good for the health of the herd.
The recessive piebald gene is definitely taken root on that campus. You’ll see more of them there over time unless they are taken out. In answer to whether that fawn could be the same deer = no. While there may be some minor changes in hue throughout a deer’s life, no study I’ve seen documents deer “growing out of” overall pigment patterns.
Score = he’s a shooter for certain. That’s a NY Deer, so he has a big body to go with that rack. Long main beams, spread way outside of his ears, good mass and tine length. As an 8-pointer I think he’ll break 150, but from this pic really can’t tell if he’s a straight-8 or has more going on. Hunt the land around the campus and post his trophy pic.
I killed One with a 2 " overbite and short knock knees. One of the Wensels told me the overbite and piebald ism is called Micrognathia. I had it mounted with the overbite. I guess the big Missouri monarch was an overbite buck. Cool stuff
2021 Update- same buck is still kicking, body wise looks bigger than ever. I look every day, he didn't show up till earlier this week and is only 200 yards from where i filmed him last year. Antler wise is a cleaner 8pt this year, maybe on a decline? The video is one i took myself. The picture is one someone else took that made some rounds. I would say his pattern is pretty much the same no changes. He runs like i do- slow and not too graceful!
I'd never guess that was the same buck because of change in rack from one year to the next if was not for the pattern of piebaldness on him. Cool stuff!
Shot this guy last season it was close to dark & didn't see the horns. Had I known it was a buck I'd have passed. Have this hide & another piebald being soft tanned now.
