Sitka Mountain Gear
Digital currency
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
spike78 26-Dec-20
Cornpone 27-Dec-20
Pat Lefemine 27-Dec-20
BTM 27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
Ollie 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
keepemsharp 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
Dpat 27-Dec-20
altitude sick 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
Bowbender 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-20
Dpat 27-Dec-20
c3 27-Dec-20
Dpat 27-Dec-20
Dpat 27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-20
altitude sick 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
Bowbender 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
Highlife 27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
lewis 27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
Glunt@work 27-Dec-20
Woods Walker 27-Dec-20
Medicinemann 27-Dec-20
Scoot 27-Dec-20
Bowbender 27-Dec-20
spike78 27-Dec-20
OneBooner 27-Dec-20
Glunt@work 27-Dec-20
AZ8 27-Dec-20
altitude sick 28-Dec-20
Bob H in NH 28-Dec-20
goyt 28-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 28-Dec-20
Jackaroo 28-Dec-20
altitude sick 28-Dec-20
StickFlicker 28-Dec-20
spike78 28-Dec-20
Jaquomo 28-Dec-20
goyt 29-Dec-20
Bob H in NH 29-Dec-20
Will 29-Dec-20
Jackaroo 29-Dec-20
spike78 29-Dec-20
goyt 29-Dec-20
JohnMC 29-Dec-20
Jaquomo 29-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 29-Dec-20
goyt 29-Dec-20
spike78 30-Dec-20
goyt 30-Dec-20
Jackaroo 30-Dec-20
spike78 30-Dec-20
Sitting Bull 31-Dec-20
spike78 31-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-21
goyt 11-Jan-21
eBike John 11-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-21
Medicinemann 11-Jan-21
BigOzzie 11-Jan-21
BigOzzie 11-Jan-21
Medicinemann 11-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-21
redheadlover 11-Jan-21
spike78 11-Jan-21
spike78 11-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-21
Medicinemann 12-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-21
Medicinemann 12-Jan-21
StickFlicker 12-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-21
Medicinemann 12-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-21
StickFlicker 12-Jan-21
Medicinemann 12-Jan-21
Pat Lefemine 12-Jan-21
Medicinemann 12-Jan-21
Pat Lefemine 12-Jan-21
eBike John 13-Jan-21
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-21
Candor 13-Jan-21
Buffalo1 13-Jan-21
x-man 13-Jan-21
From: spike78
26-Dec-20
I know this does not have anything to do with bows but honestly maybe it does as this can be the future. I’m sure Pat is well aware of digital currency in his job. So what say you is this the future? Do you own any?

From: Cornpone
27-Dec-20
Wasn't aware of it but looked it up. Sounds great but like anything digital I'm sure hackers are working on it as I type. What can't be hacked these days...just a matter of time.

From: Pat Lefemine
27-Dec-20
While there’s many types of Digital currency, bitcoins are the most popular and widely used. They are highly speculative and unlike other currencies including the dollar, euros, etc. they are unregulated and are not backed by any country, institutions or precious metals. They are the currency used by criminals because of that reason. By themselves bitcoins are not necessarily unsafe, or illegal to own but they are risky since if you are a victim of fraud or they got hacked out of your BTC wallet or through an exchange there is zero recourse. Nobody can help you recover them or make you whole. So I always tell people that if you decide to invest in BTC treat it like an investment at the casino. In other words don’t put your life savings into it. People have made tons of money on digital currencies and others have lost tons of money. Just be careful and make sure you understand the way digital currencies work before you jump in.

From: BTM
27-Dec-20
"People have made tons of money on digital currencies and others have lost tons of money. Just be careful and make sure you understand the way digital currencies work before you jump in." Amen to that!

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-20
Too volatile and too little regulation for me. I think I'll stick with gold and regular government backed currencies.

Matt

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
Been looking into adding a thousand or two in my portfolio. But honestly, I just don’t understand how it all works. I’ve done my research, but it’s all confusing....haha. I can sell my stocks and have the cash in my bank within hours. But how to you sell something that isn’t fiat? If I sell 10 shares of Bitcoin @ $1000.....do I actually receive $10,000 in real cash I can transfer to my bank account or $10,000 in Bitcoin cash that sits in my crypto wallet?........maybe I’ll just continue with stocks, mutual funds and precious metals! haha

From: Ollie
27-Dec-20
Why would you want to invest any of your hard earned money in an investment that you do not understand?

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
Ollie. I won’t invest UNTIL I do understand. That’s why I responded to this thread. It’s called research and due diligence. I didn’t understand a lot of things in my early investment years, but I research and make a decision. My portfolio is doing A-ok!....$x,xxx,xxx.00. :)

From: keepemsharp
27-Dec-20
Sounds like a big drug dealers dream for laundering.

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
AZ8 it works same way as stocks when you sell it goes into your exchange account then when you want to put the money in your bank account you withdraw it same exact way as a stock exchange. It is definitely not for the faint of heart but the way it’s looking is it will be the future and I think eventually it will be insured like a bank account. Big institutions are just starting to realize they are missing out on big gains so they are slowly getting into it do your research and you will see that. You have to realize Gold is manipulated read about that, bonds are now junk, bank accounts pay nothing, and stocks are all over valued. A crypto like Bitcoin has a lot of room to go higher as it’s still young and not very well known about. When it becomes well known about then you better get in quick.

From: Dpat
27-Dec-20
Bitcoin can be used to buy houses, cars, gold and silver just about anything. Once you buy Bitcoin or any other Crypto it can be stored very secure in a crypto wallet.

Coinbase the largest American crypto exchange has an IPO in the works on the stock exchange. You will soon (if not now) be able to buy crypto on Paypal and transfer to others via Paypal. Im sure more sites to follow.

I was blessed to have a teenager son who was into this stuff back in 2016 & 2017 (He explained it to me) and made a good chunk of money. He believed in it more than me and is worth more than most grown adults at the end of a good career. It is worth looking into. The U.S. and other country just keep printing more and more money and devauling their paper money. Crypto will become more commonly used. In most of Asia and Africa the majority of people dont have bank accounts but do have phones and crypto can be bought, sold and used with a phone. It is here to stay IMHO.

27-Dec-20
Dpat, to your point. People are also Growing more and more concerned with the ever tightening laws and banking controls on what you can and can’t do with your own cash. With cash your guilty without being charged. It won’t be long before you won’t be able to store over a certain amount of cash. And you will need to report why you need a certain amount of cash. From what I understand their are sources of Crypto currency that can be moved around and converted to cash without the MAN knowing your every move. They already control how much you can move around under the guise of controlling crime. It will eventually be illegal to own any form of currency the government can’t monitor completely. I know, I know it’s a wacko conspiracy theory

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
Crypto went from unknown years ago to being talked about and bought by institutions, China will be going to crypto currency, MassMutual just bought 100million worth, Elon Musk says he would like to put Tesla’s assets into it, companies are now adding it to 401k, Facebook wants to launch a coin. Now just wait until Apple, Google, Microsoft, the list goes on Invest’s in it.

From: Bowbender
27-Dec-20
"The U.S. and other country just keep printing more and more money and devauling their paper money. "

And digital currency is nothing but 1's and 0's created in a computer backed by the full faith of..........................................................

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
spike78: that’s good to hear. Might try to convince myself to get in soon.

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-20
Had you bought Bitcoin 3 years ago this month, your investment would be down 30% right now. No thanks.

And Tom brings up a good point. What are you actually buying when you purchase a cryptocurrency? It's nothing but a computer generated asset. It doesn't create jobs. It doesn't generate earnings. It's not a physical asset with tangible value, like gold or other commodities. And it's backed by nothing if it's hacked and stolen from you.

No thanks.

Matt

From: Dpat
27-Dec-20
Bowbender I don't disagree at all the value for any crypto is set by what people think its worth.

The main difference is you don't have 50 different country's putting out currency that all differ in value. Some countrys you kinda trust in backing their currency others not at all. The more they print the less i trust the backing. What is gold but a shiny metal you get from the ground with a value assinged to it.

I feel better with a pocket full of 100 bills but i have figured out that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily feel that way and the younger generation looks at it completely different than i do.

From: c3
27-Dec-20
Don't know where you get those numbers Matt, but on Dec 27th 2017, bitcoin was $16,000. It went down to as low as $3500 in 2018 though. Today it is trading at $27,000

Cheers, Pete

From: Dpat
27-Dec-20
Gray Ghost, It's worth over 27,000 today and right at 20,000 3 years ago both at the time all time highs. In December of 2016 it was less than 1,000 I think any currency in history has fluctuated from year to year never just going up.

From: Dpat
27-Dec-20
double

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-20
Sorry guys, I failed to factor in the recent spike in price. So basically, a $20K investment 3 years ago would be worth $27K today. All of that gain would have been realized this year. And there's a strong likelihood that it will crash again, soon. If I were considering investing, it surely wouldn't be right now.

Maybe I'm just old school, but if the all of the fiat currencies in the world crashed, I'd rather have a bar of gold in my safe than a bitcoin in my cyber wallet.

Matt

27-Dec-20
As John Wayne said. “ Nope just lead”

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
You can either have cyber money or pieces of paper called the US dollar ha.

From: Bowbender
27-Dec-20
"What is gold but a shiny metal you get from the ground with a value assinged to it."

Yes, it has a value assigned to it. Since man first dug it from the ground. When the SHTF lemme know how "Pssst hey buddy, want some digital currency?" works out vs precious metals, like gold, silver, copper and lead.

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
Lol........If we truly see a real, full blown SHTF scenario, the only thing that’ll matter is how many bullets you have.

From: Highlife
27-Dec-20
So ya think all the out of the USA outfitters going to cyber money? ;)

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-20
Gold and other precious metals are used to make many products in many industries. What can you make from a bitcoin?

Matt

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
I do find it amusing that a damn mineral has all that value. If the S really hit the fan I’m thinking gold or money won’t matter. What is more valuable in a desert gold or water?

From: lewis
27-Dec-20
Bought it sold it made money what can I say maybe not buy it again good luck Lewis

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-20
So a “mineral” that you can actually make useful stuff from is worth less than a computer generated commodity that does what...?

Matt.

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
Grey Ghost as far as I know Gold is off the monetary standard in the U.S. but yes it does have value along with silver to make products so I get that. I just find it amusing that a one ounce coin goes for the price it does around $1800. Oddly silver is only $25ish per ounce and it is used for more industrial applications and is not mined for but just a by product of gold mining. It is a known fact that gold and silver prices are manipulated read about it. Digital currency has X amount of coins set to combat inflation. Once it gains a foothold then buying something with it will be as simple as transferring money from your bank account.

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
Matt, your opinion on Bitcoin is clear. Move on if it’s not your cup of tea. But for some of us that wouldn’t mind testing the waters, this thread is informative. If a guy has an extra $1,000 to throw at a possible investment opportunity and it crashes with a 100% loss, so be it. No different than buying stock in XYZ company and having them bankrupt 16 months down the road. Some investments are safer than others.....risk vs reward. Besides, we aren’t using your money...lol.

From: Glunt@work
27-Dec-20
I only know a little about digital currency but I do know that the guy who lives next my buddy's farm was involved in creating one and when he's not in Asia he drives his Lamborgini up and down the county road.

From: Woods Walker
27-Dec-20
I have a friend who got ripped off by Bite Me coins for 30K. No thanks.

If someone's going to rob me, I prefer that they do it face to face. This way I have the option of shooting them.

From: Medicinemann
27-Dec-20
PM sent...

From: Scoot
27-Dec-20
AZ8, his opinion is clear, but he hasn't fully made clear you are immoral and an idiot if you don't think just like him. That's where all his posts end up...

From: Bowbender
27-Dec-20
"No different than buying stock in XYZ company and having them bankrupt 16 months down the road."

Like an actual brick-n-mortar company that has an actual product or service with tangible assets, VS 1's & 0's on a server? That kind of risk? Maybe one with an actual 10-K....That risk?

27-Dec-20
Really the only thing that gives fiat currency, as opposed to commodity money, value, is our willingness to accept it. If Central banks world wide, including our Federal Reserve, keep expanding the money supply, crypto currencies will continue to increase in popularity, and invite regulation IMO.

From: spike78
27-Dec-20
No doubt crypto’s will be regulated. And to touch upon above I invested $600 in a helium company due to the huge helium shortage so that gamble costed me almost every penny. I don’t even know if the company is still operating.

From: OneBooner
27-Dec-20
I’m just amazed that you buy Bitcoin with money. Why would somebody take money in exchange for digital currency

From: Glunt@work
27-Dec-20
"Why would somebody take money in exchange for digital currency"

Reminds me of a buddy when we were in our 20's on his first time in Vegas. We got back to the hotel and he a had a $100 chip from a casino in his pocket. His initial reaction was "Whoops, is it ok to leave with these?" ...

"Um, yes. You paid $100 for a piece of plastic, I'm sure they would like you to leave with as many as you wish."

From: AZ8
27-Dec-20
Bowbender: Your individual risk profile will determine how you proceed with any investment opportunity. You either like it or you don’t. The only thing in life that is guaranteed is death.

28-Dec-20
It’s a pretty standard rule. The “safer” the investment, the lower the return. Most “investments” are us handing our money over to other people for them to pool together and then they really make money with the funds that we actually pay them to use.

So in essence, most retirement funds are people handing their cash over to someone they don’t know. Paying that stranger to take their money.

That stranger then makes a boat load of money by pooling the loans they get from all the chumps and we pay them a fee to loan them the money. What a scam.

then they pay us a paltry return on investment.

I include myself in the Chump column because I am in the stock market also.

28-Dec-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
China moving towards a digital currency.

From: Bob H in NH
28-Dec-20
Pat hit the nail on the head, it's real, it has value, but its unregulated and you have no recourse over fraud.

Bitcoin is one version of crypto-currency, the laugh is that it was actually started to test/prove block-chain technology, it wasn't supposed to actually carry on and be worth something! Paper money will soon be gone in favor of all on line. Paper/physical money is expensive and actually has a short life-span. Look at the average persons finances, how often is paper money used? How often does a "younger person" actually have cash? It's all done via on line transfers now, direct deposit, pay bills on line, transfer money with all the apps etc. Heck even Credit cards. Like it or not, within, oh say, 20 years cash will be gone.

As for investing it, well it's no different than any investment in the market, you don't actually "hold" anything, you have "shares" in something that go up/down, sometimes seemingly randomly. Crypto is no different, except, for backing and support for fraud.

Yes, people made MILLIONS on it, and lost too. Same as getting in EARLY on anything. People who worked for Microsoft before it was well known? Heck they got paid in stocks rather than money at one point. The risk was HUGE but it paid off.

From: goyt
28-Dec-20
I have researched bitcoins a number of time including just now. I can appreciate the value of them as a currency however if they can fluctuate up to 10% a day that would make them risky to use as a currency. If I want to buy a car for $50,000 and buy bitcoins for $50,000 only to have them worth $45,000 when I go to spend them on a car I would not be happy. Clearly for any International purchase there is some risk in the change in exchange rates but it seems to be excessive with bitcoins. Plus there are fees to buy and sell bitcoins so unless we go to just a bitcoins currency I do not see the benefits. Being paid in US$s and buying stuff with bitcoins does not seem to make any sense to me unless I want to hide something. As an investment I just do not see it. As others have pointed out there is no underlining value and no underlining country or organization backing it. What would cause it to go up in value? What would stop other digital currencies from replacing it? Bitcoins were created from nothing so there is nothing there but a network. The China link from Habitat For Wildlife shows that China is trying to create their own digital currency which is a threat to bitcoins. I understand that a lot of people have made a lot of money trading bitcoins. The bitcoins in circulation have gone up a lot in apparent value. I am certain that I would not be comfortable having my future financial needs based on an account made up of bitcoins. It seems more like a pyramid scheme than an investment strategy. At best I feel it as gambling. I can see how companies would be willing to accept bitcoins as payment so long as they can sell the bitcoins immediately and cover their transaction fees to sell them. If someone can explain what would make bitcoins a reasonable, long term investment I would love to hear it. The fact that they have gone up in the past is not a reason to me unless we understand what will cause to to continue to rise. Currencies only rise and fall in relationship to each other as their relative buying power changes. What would impact the buying power of bitcoins? Will they have any buying power in the future?

28-Dec-20
"What would impact the buying power of bitcoins? Will they have any buying power in the future?"

Supply and Demand.

From: Grey Ghost
28-Dec-20
"As for investing it, well it's no different than any investment in the market..."

Yes, it is different. When you buy stock in a company, the value is based on current and projected future earnings of the company, among other metrics. There is no way to value cryptocurrency other than investor's sentiments. That's why it's so volatile. Sentiments can and do change rapidly and randomly. I expect the price of bitcoin will plunge drastically in the near future, as it has after previous spikes like this one.

Matt

From: Jackaroo
28-Dec-20
Chinas digital currency is no different than an electronic dollar. Bitcoin is simply a bet that it will go up after you buy it. No more no less. The electronic dollar or digital currency is being pushed by governments for tax collection purposes. If you use digital currency every transaction is then taxable. If you sell something on Craigslist or at a garage sale they can tax it.

28-Dec-20
Jackaroo, Exactly, they already control how much of your own cash you can move in and out of your account. How may online transactions per month without letting them know what your doing with your own money. They say it’s to impact criminals. BS! Its a way around due process. Your presumed to be breaking the law and have to inform the government where and when you move cash. Im not sure how that hasn’t been challenged in court. Hey Gman is it ok if I drive my car to Florida. I could break the law with my car. :^)

From: StickFlicker
28-Dec-20

StickFlicker's Link
I think goyt makes some very good observations. I do think that crypto currency is likely the future, but it may not necessarily be Bitcoin that wins in the end. There are a number of different currencies out there already, although Bitcoin is the one that is becoming the most recognized and accepted currently. Apple announced that they were creating a crypto currency a year or so ago, many others are out there, and there will be many more. I'm sure that banks will eventually come up with their own as well as perhaps governments. That may kill Bitcoin at some point, but for the short foreseeable future I think it will go higher. I have purchased small amounts, but I consider it as money gambled rather than invested. I understand you can now buy Bitcoin using Square and Paypal, see the link, and it can be easily sold and converted back to cash when desired, at the current market value.

From: spike78
28-Dec-20
In regards to it rising and dropping quickly I have been playing with this stuff for three years now and I can tell you Bitcoin is volatile but seems to be getting less and less and I believe in the future it will be more stable to use to buy things. I asked the same questions when I first started researching this stuff. As far as I’m concerned stocks are not much different just look at Apples market cap in the Trillions now unreal. I do believe the next 10 years are already priced in with earnings. I think all these markets are due for a huge correction as everything stocks, crypto, gold, copper, housing market, etc are at over or close to all time highs and oddly in supposedly in one of the worst times in our history.

From: Jaquomo
28-Dec-20
Back before the tech bust people were investing hundreds of millions in companies with no revenue, risky operating plan, being built to sell. Basically 8 guys in a room. I was principally involved with a couple of dot com startups, as a VP. Lots of money made on paper or during the runup by smart traders, lots of money lost for those who held on too long or picked the wrong bet.

I see many similarities in cryptocurrency. If I wasn't retired I might try to time some just for the hell of it.

From: goyt
29-Dec-20
This is more interesting the more I think about it. Bitcoins are to be capped at 21 million. As time goes on if bitcoins become a worldwide currency used by all the value of each bitcoin has to increase as wealth increases. Instead of the products costing more they have to cost less because there are more products or wealth and a fixed amount of currency. Therefore a bitcoin has to have more value. Or maybe not. We really only have enough hard money in circulation to cover what everyone needs in their pockets for spending money. The rest is just a digital record!! We each get to decide how much money we want in our possession within our financial capability and the rest is just digital record. Of course stores, banks and the like have cash on hand to service costumers. We can access and use our money with credit cards, automatic payments, transfers, direct deposits ectara. The US dollar could become a digital only currency just by doing away with the metal and paper forms but then we would not be able to buy stuff when there is not a convenient way to make a digital transaction. A dollar bill probably cost the same to produce as a hundred dollar bill and they are all provide by the federal government out of tax dollars. Therefore their value is based their buying power. I would argue that the US$ is a digital currency that can be represented in physical form. Plus I can use it without having to buy it. Easy, flexible and accepted all over the world! I personally have no need for bitcoins which is probably true for most people in the world right now. What will create and maintain a demand for bitcoins?

29-Dec-20
“ What will create and maintain a demand for bitcoins?”

Monetary policies like we have witnessed since the Great Recession.

From: Bob H in NH
29-Dec-20
"Yes, it is different. When you buy stock in a company, the value is based on current and projected future earnings of the company, among other metrics."

No, you are buying stock that is at the mercy of supply/demand. You HOPE that investors are logical and follow the metrics you mention, but they often make no sense. MAJOR swings in the market happen when people THINK something will happen, not when it does. If LOTS of holders decide to sell over some random speculation the price drops and your held value drops.

bitcoin is no different, if people think it will go up, the demand goes up, so the price goes up. If some major institution/government etc suddenly says they will use bitcoin, it's value goes up. Company stocks can go DOWN when the company makes a profit, just not what people though it should have been, and value can go up when the company looses money, just didn't loose as much as people thought.

Day traders equally can tank or rise a stock. Logic need not apply.

From: Will
29-Dec-20
Spike, I'm curious... But, with the long term history of stocks (very positive), and my modest investing knowledge, they (e currencies) are to risky for me.

I can still diversify really well via stocks or similar, so I'm just not willing to get to risky yet.

From: Jackaroo
29-Dec-20
Bitcoin is valued in dollars. It only works as an alternate to money if everyone converts to it. Stock and housing prices are up because money is essentially free thanks to ZIRP.

From: spike78
29-Dec-20
Well we should find out soon enough what is going to happen. Here we are with every single financial asset through the roof including housing so something has to give especially with the virus going on and the debt, zero interest rates, and money printing. I’m guessing the near future ain’t gonna be pretty.

From: goyt
29-Dec-20
Bitcoins are synchronized over thousands of computers for every transaction. The last I heard was that the system could only handle about 3 transactions a second. The only reason it works is because no-one uses it very much as a currency. Additionally the system is supported by the mining for bitcoins which may become less attractive as the number of bitcoins awarded drops with time. It appears that the computing costs are extremely high. These costs will have to be covered some how. It is doubtful that it can be scaled up to be a leading currency.

No one is responsible for the accounts. If you have a million dollars in bitcoins in your account and lose your password there does not appear to be any way to recover it. You lose your bitcoins. If you die without leaving someone your access information your bitcoins are lost. If the system gets a virus does everyone loses their bitcoins?

From: JohnMC
29-Dec-20
Can you short sell them?

From: Jaquomo
29-Dec-20

Jaquomo's Link
Binance had more than $40 million stolen in one single hack.

From: Grey Ghost
29-Dec-20

Grey Ghost's Link
Here's an interesting read about some cryptocurrency horror stories.

From: goyt
29-Dec-20
It seems to me that most of the discussion on bitcoins is directed toward capital appreciation and not on it's value as a currency. Either way I would like to see some input on how it provide protection from monetary policies. If interest rates go up or down how do bitcoins protect us? I can not see where we will be financing homes, cars, land, and the like with bitcoins. If we were it would be scary due to the value fluctuation. Changes in tracking and reporting requirements are not at first glance going to affect bitcoins and if there is a tax on assets a hidden asset like bitcoins may have some advantages but I would guess that there would be a requirement to report them so we would have to decide if we want to break the law. It is possible that certain countries would pass a law that bitcoins can not be used as a currency in their country and that no transactions can be based on bitcoins. Quebec has a law that some official records have to be in French so why not make the $C the only legal tender in Canada.

From: spike78
30-Dec-20

spike78's Link
NFL player to be paid in Bitcoin love it.

From: goyt
30-Dec-20
spike78, thanks for sharing that. This is interesting! I wonder what is motivating the player? I assume that sales tax has to be collected and paid by the vendors who sell him things. Clearly the NFL owner has to withhold the appropriate taxes.

From: Jackaroo
30-Dec-20
Okung left the Seahawks and became his own agent. He promptly negotiated one of the worst contracts in the history of the NFL. At a time when offensive linemen were bringing a premium he had zero guaranteed money, if he got cut he got nothing if he was injured he got nothing. So emulate Russell Okung at your own peril.

From: spike78
30-Dec-20
Goyt, Bitcoin is predicted to go to anywhere from 250,000 to 300,000 which honestly if you take the amount of trillions out into the stock market and move a chunk of that to Bitcoin it is possible. He honestly can’t lose. Even if he loses half his salary he still makes millions. If Bitcoin goes to even just 50k he makes a boatload. Nice to have money to play with!

From: Sitting Bull
31-Dec-20
Law of Supply and Demand tells me that if Bitcoins are so expensive to purchase that somebody and perhaps many somebodies will create their own crypto currencies thereby decreasing the value of all crypto currency. A bit like the Fed printing money... only nobody is regulating it. Will need centralised regulation before I would trust it with any thing more than money I can afford to loose.

From: spike78
31-Dec-20
Sitting bull their are already a ton of different coins out there but you won’t see big institutions trusting any buy the top 2 being Ether and Bitcoin. Bitcoin is $9,000 above it’s all time high and back when it first hit $20k their were way less crypto’s then now.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-21
Bitcoin down over 25% since the highs last week.

If it seems too good to be true.......

Matt

From: goyt
11-Jan-21
Matt, I saw that too. The price went up about $8,000 since I became aware of this thread and has now dropped that $8,000 in about 2 days! I see no real value in bitcoins so as they say on the Shark Tank "I am out!". However I am fascinated by them.

From: eBike John
11-Jan-21
I have been interested in bitcoin and crypto in general for sometime and reading up on it more and more. I decided recently to buy a small amount, small enough that if it implodes and goes away it won't hurt but enough that if it explodes it will be rewarding.

My store now is set up also to accept bitcoin as a payment method, not that anyone is parting with theirs these days. One platform called Coinbase is one where you can buy/sell crypto and hold it there is attempting to play both sides. It's trying to be decentralized and ungoverned but at the same time working with JP Morgan to get legitimized and rumor has it Coinbase will go public this year. It certainly is interesting. Only time will tell..

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-21
John,

You said your store is accepting Bitcoins as payment. How does that work? Do you take a spot price at the time of the transaction? And what happens when the price suddenly drops over 25% like it has lately? In other words, if I purchased an e-bike from you using Bitcoins last week, wouldn't your profit margin be drastically reduced today?

Matt

From: Medicinemann
11-Jan-21
Remind me to always visit Bowsite for my future financial investment decisions........and yes, I have made a LOT of money on cryptocurrencies, and I have never even owned one. Talk to people that know what they are talking about.....

From: BigOzzie
11-Jan-21
So trying to keep with the topic but broaden it a little. We have a local here in town that put in a facility that they call a BitCoin mining facility. It is a decent sized building full of computers, with cooling systems on the roof to cool it and etc.

What the @#$ is he doing? Mining? I really don't get it.

oz

From: BigOzzie
11-Jan-21

From: Medicinemann
11-Jan-21
There is considerable information on the internet about this process. That might be a good starting point. For starters, try "How does Bitcoin mining work?" on investopedia.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-21
BigOzzie,

As I understand it, cryptocurrency miners are basically auditors who verify crypto transactions. Once they've verified 1 megabyte (aka: a "block") of transactions, and they solve some sort of "numeric problem" they receive a reward, paid in newly "minted" cryptocurrency. It's basically how new cryptocurrency is created. It takes a huge amount of computing power to mine, hence all the computers in the facility you mentioned.

Clear as mud?

Matt

From: redheadlover
11-Jan-21
666

From: spike78
11-Jan-21
Grey Ghost you do realize Bitcoin has gone parabolic from $3500 to 45000 since April so a 25% correction is totally healthy. If that did not happen then you could call it to good to be true or bogus. Even the Dow Jones has a correction every once in awhile.

From: spike78
11-Jan-21
Forgot to mention I made 4K last year and $2500 since Jan 1st just got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. I’ve been in this for going on 3 years and know it’s volatile nature so I’m usually prepared. Setting stop losses and knowing charts and assuming a dump is very important in this game.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-21

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-21
Spike78,

I'm glad you've made a little money on it, and hope you continue to do so.

Bitcoin has proven it will never be a widely used currency until it becomes less volatile. It's an imaginary asset with no way to value it, and with no governmental or institutional backing. It's only value lies in the minds of the people who invest in it. As we've just seen, its price can irrationally soar and crash for no apparent reason.

Like Goyt said, it's not an investment that will get any of my money, at least for now, but it is intriguing.

Matt

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-21
No government or institutional backing? Are you kidding? Many governments back cryptocurrencies....hell, you better not get caught talking poorly about Cryptos in China. No institutional backing? LOL Paypal and Square offer bitcoin. Banks have been given the green light to hold crypto on behalf of their customers. There are billion dollar companies (i.e. -Microstrategy) that have converted half of their cash reserves to bitcoin. There are banks in California that use digital currencies to gather new forms of deposits. Sounds like some "fact" checks are in order.....

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-21
Jake,

Per Pat above: "They are highly speculative and unlike other currencies including the dollar, euros, etc. they are unregulated and are not backed by any country, institutions or precious metals. They are the currency used by criminals because of that reason. By themselves bitcoins are not necessarily unsafe, or illegal to own but they are risky since if you are a victim of fraud or they got hacked out of your BTC wallet or through an exchange there is zero recourse. Nobody can help you recover them or make you whole"

Is this not correct?

Matt

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-21
I have seen you berate Pat in the past on various topics. Now that it suits your needs, he is your expert? Pat is a damn good friend of mine, and he was offering his thoughts. Nothing more..... Did you ever hear of a company called Enron? There's a company with your institutional backing....how'd that turn out? Bernie Madoff had quite a bit of institutional backing, as well. There are cryptocurrency-related ETFs ....more institutional backing, if that's what you prefer....

From: StickFlicker
12-Jan-21
"There are cryptocurrency EFTs ...."

Actually, Jake, there are no true cryptocurrency ETFs. The government has not approved them, although there have been a lot of brokerages that have tried to start one. They are hoping that with the new president, and the likelihood he will put new people in the positions of oversight on this, that one will be approved in the coming year. There are some workarounds, like Grayscale's Bitcoin Trust (GBTC), but there are no actual ETFs at this time.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-21
You didn't answer the question. Is Pat's comment not correct? It's an honest question. I've read a ton of articles about crypto, and they all echo basically what Pat said.

So, instead of making this personal, educate me. I'm truly trying to learn.

Matt

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-21
Marvin, I consider BLOK, BLCN, KOIN, etc to be ETFs. That is how they are listed.

Matt, No harm, no foul. My point is that you are focusing on the negatives of cryptos....I get it. They DO have risks. However, so do stocks, bonds , and any other legitimate form of investing. You stated that they have no government backing.....in the US, that is true. It is not completely true, globally. You felt that they have no institutional backing....again, I submit that is not accurate....per my mention of corporations and banks. Even it was true, institutional backing isn't bulletproof either (hence the mention of Enron, WorldCom, and Madoff). I hope that this helps.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-21
Fair enough, Jake. Thanks.

I do believe there are uses for the blockchain technology, so I'd be more inclined to invest in an ETF like BLCN, rather than actually buy Bitcoins or some other cryptocurrency. But then, I already own shares in most of the top 10 companies those ETFs hold, so it would be redundant.

Matt

From: StickFlicker
12-Jan-21

StickFlicker's Link
Jake, there certainly are ETFs that have an "exposure" to the cryptocurrency world, in that they hold companies that are used in the blockchain software or computing for mining, but they don't hold any actual cryptocurrencies in them. All of those that you mention hold the stock of semiconductor, software and other companies - not actual currencies. For example, the top 5 holdings of KOIN are: Nividia, Taiwan Semiconductor, Paypal, Microsoft and Amazon, see the link. I think the purest play ETF for cryptocurrencies is probably RIOT, which invests in crypto mining.

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-21
Marvin, Cool link.....I edited my previous post to "cryptocurrency-related" ETFs for a more accurate description.

From: Pat Lefemine
12-Jan-21
You guys are more fun when you’re debating bowhunting over corn.

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-21
Go back to your bratwurst.....it's probably on the kitchen table.....right next to your hunting clothes.

From: Pat Lefemine
12-Jan-21

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pretty close

From: eBike John
13-Jan-21
Matt, Yes I accept bitcoin now. And as a payment gateway I can choose to hold it in bitcoin or immediately (automatically converts to usd the same day so the usd amount is what arrives. Although I am tempted that when someone uses bitcoin to checkout, to hold it and see what happens.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-21

Grey Ghost's Link
Two more chances, or it's pixie dust.....

Matt

From: Candor
13-Jan-21
My father used to say "if we ever have nuclear fusion the only thing that will be worth anything is land."

While that isn't necessarily today, the good old US $ makes me nervous going forward. We have increased money supply by ~20% in the last 12 months. I don't know what that means but I know two things - it means something and it isn't good.

Short term I like currency. Long term and I don't like US currency or having a high amount of worth tied to the US $ without inflation hedges.

From: Buffalo1
13-Jan-21
Warren Buffett said if you don't understand a stock, you don't need to be investing in it. What is Buffett's word worth? What does he know about investing?

From: x-man
13-Jan-21
Heard on the radio today...some guy in San Fran forgot his password for his BC Wallet. He gets 10 tries and has already used 8. The current value of his BC is 220 million US dollars!!!! DOH!

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