Sitka Mountain Gear
Level on sight
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
Robert2968 06-Jan-21
skookumjt 06-Jan-21
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
wyobullshooter 06-Jan-21
WapitiBob 06-Jan-21
greenmountain 06-Jan-21
Bowboy 06-Jan-21
Tonybear61 06-Jan-21
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
WapitiBob 06-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Jan-21
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 06-Jan-21
Rsquared 06-Jan-21
WapitiBob 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rocky D 07-Jan-21
rooster 07-Jan-21
EMB 07-Jan-21
sticksender 07-Jan-21
skookumjt 07-Jan-21
WapitiBob 07-Jan-21
x-man 07-Jan-21
wyobullshooter 07-Jan-21
x-man 07-Jan-21
Bob H in NH 07-Jan-21
Cornpone 07-Jan-21
Drahthaar 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Buffalo1 07-Jan-21
WapitiBob 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 07-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 07-Jan-21
skookumjt 07-Jan-21
Bob H in NH 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
Rsquared 07-Jan-21
x-man 08-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 08-Jan-21
WV Mountaineer 08-Jan-21
lewis 08-Jan-21
Rsquared 08-Jan-21
WapitiBob 08-Jan-21
Sand man 08-Jan-21
Rocky D 08-Jan-21
Rsquared 09-Jan-21
stringgunner 10-Jan-21
From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21
How important is it to make sure the bubble is in the center on your sight? I bow hunted as a teenager and never had a level on my sight. I stopped hunting for awhile and just got back into it this past year. Got a new bow and just never payed attention to the level on it at all. This evening I was shooting and realized the bubble is all the way to the right when I shoot. I tried to center it and it just feels so awkward. I also will have arrows that fly inconsistent. The same arrow will fly like a dart and then next shot, fly a little awkward. Could the not having it level be the cause ?

From: Robert2968
06-Jan-21
yes

From: skookumjt
06-Jan-21
The bubble makes a huge difference in consistency. The arrows flying differently, not so much. That's you.

From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21
U think it's my grip causing the inconsistent arrow flight? I will admit that my grip and hand position arent consistent. It doesn't matter where I have the bubble I still hit the same spot on the target tho, hit inside a softball at my max range right now at 25 yards. It's just that sometimes an arrow will fly like a dart but then sometimes that same arrow will fly a little wonky. I can see it with my bare eyes. I'm guessing it would have to be my inconsistent grip?

06-Jan-21
A bubble absolutely helps , especially on sidehill shots. As far as your arrow flying “‘wonky”, that could be caused by a myriad of things...untuned bow, hand torque, face or cable interference, etc, etc.

From: WapitiBob
06-Jan-21
The only function of a level on a bow site is to show when the sight bar or pin stack, is vertical. Doesn’t matter how the bow is sitting. If you have a natural cant of the bow, set the level to be centered at that bow angle. Most new sights have an adjustment that moves the whole housing.

06-Jan-21
I would put the level of the bow low on the list of arrow flight problems. I would look at arrow spine , Rest position, anchor point variation all closer to the top of the list. Consistent cant would not be a problem but something or things have to be inconsistent to get different arrow flight out of the same bow in the same shooting session.

From: Bowboy
06-Jan-21
The problem is you didn't tune your bow 110%. :)

From: Tonybear61
06-Jan-21
I have levels on two of my compounds. If I shoot my recurve or even logbow I cant them slightly as full vertical would be uncomfortable and reduces my accuracy.

From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21
I took the bow to a pro shop when I got it and it was paper tuned. I realize now that I should have been the one to shoot it through paper instead of the guy at the shop. I have a cheap whisker biscuit style rest and I have done alot of shooting in the last 6 months. I think maybe the whisker biscuit is wearing out. I just don't understand why an arrow will fly like a dart and then I'll shoot that SAME arrow again and it will fly a little strange. It very very minimal, but I can notice it . Then I'll shoot it again and it will fly like a dart. And so on and so on... i use a kisser button, so my anchor point is consistent.

From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo
That's looks pretty good, don't it? My draw weight is 60 lbs, 29 inch draw, 340 spine... 413 grain arrow

From: WapitiBob
06-Jan-21
Paper tune is great if the goal is pretty holes in paper. Face contact with a kisser button can be problematic.

06-Jan-21
Shorten your draw length a bit if you are consistently torquing the bow.

06-Jan-21
And, any light that isn’t consistent can make perfectly flying arrows look like the are proposing. It catches your eye as the cock vanes goes through rays of light. Just some food for thought.

But, if you know it’s not consistent, shorten that draw length and see what you got.

From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo
I gonna go to my local pro shop, I got a new block target and look at this. My dang inserts are popping out from the impact of hitting my new block target

06-Jan-21
While you are there, get them to shorten that draw length. Assuming everything else is right, I’m betting you are torquing the bow because you are stretching to far to remain anchored properly and consistently. You can almost literally take that to the bank if everything is as you’ve said it is.

Obviously, I’m not there in person. And, I am not being a wise guy. And, it’s not nearly as bad a phenomenon as it was 15 years ago. But, I’m betting 25% or better of today’s bow hunters are shooting a draw at least a 1/2” inch too long for the most consistent results possible.

Remember, a lot of Pro shops want to sell it as long as they can because it helps the chrono sell it. And, a lot of the guys at a pro shop are not pros at anything other then punching a time clock. And, standing at a line shooting a target is way different then in the woods when you are cold, or winded, or jacked up on adrenaline, or with heavy clothes on, or shooting at a steep angle, etc...,

It won’t take 20 minutes to verify if that’s your problem. Do it now. You got 8 months and Lord Willing it’ll be here before you know it. But, I’m betting this will fix it for you. If it don’t, pm your address. I’ll reimburse you the fee to have it changed if that isn’t your problem. I’m only this convinced because 20 years ago a bunch of pro shops didn’t know any better. Therefore, you may not have been taught to recognize the error. Good luck and let me know how it works out for you.

From: Rsquared
06-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo

From: WapitiBob
07-Jan-21

WapitiBob's embedded Photo
WapitiBob's embedded Photo
WapitiBob's embedded Photo
WapitiBob's embedded Photo
don't draw a bow without an arrow, seriously

That steep string angle bow has you all scrunched up.

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21
Ya I know I shouldn't pull it back without an arrow but I was indoors so I just made sure I was careful. U say I'm all scrunged Up, so what do I do to fix that problem. At the bow shop I whent to they said it looked good so idk?

From: Rocky D
07-Jan-21

Rocky D's Link
First of all I do not think that the level is your problem but typically a slight cant has more to do with accuracy at distance. I would focus form. In the picture yours seems a little loose and it seem that your draw length may be a little long. All archery shops are not created equal so I would begin to educate yourself. A a good place to start is with the John Dudley beginners video below. The the next video that I would watch is his video on follow through. It sounds to me that you are coming a little undone after the shot.

From: rooster
07-Jan-21
Draw to your anchor with your eyes closed and your head up. Once at anchor open your eyes. Can you see through the peep or do you have to move your head to align the peep. In your photo it looks like you are dropping your chin to see through the peep. It also looks as though you are trying to bury the kisser into the corner of your mouth.

From: EMB
07-Jan-21
Looks like you're looking down to get into the peep. So, the peep is too low. And, you've got a lot of face contact with the string at your anchor point which could affect arrow flight. The whole point of an anchor point is consistency. If you need to "make your mouth" fit the point, it will be difficult to achieve that consistency. Relax and pull the kisser to your anchor point and stop. If you need to adjust the draw length so that you are not pulling so far into your face, then shorten the draw length. As stated above the level is to make sure that your pins are vertical. If you're not level, it will cause left or right misses at different yardages. For example if you're canted left \ and sight in at 20 yards, you're going to be left at longer yardages. The level also needs to be square to the bow. I use a door frame. Lay the riser or limb pockets against the door frame. If the bubble is not level, adjust it or shim the sight. As for paper tuning only you should do that. If you have form/grip issues, have someone line you up, relax, close your eyes, and trigger the shot. Sometimes that works-at lest to paper tune. Good luck

From: sticksender
07-Jan-21
If the bow's draw length is adjustable, reduce it in 1/2-inch increments until you can draw with the same relaxed, head-upright, arm-straight form, as those girls in WB's pictures. Then re-position the peep. You may be able to preserve a little draw length by shortening that string loop.

From: skookumjt
07-Jan-21
I agree with the above. Draw back with your head up and face relaxed. Adjust the peep so you can see it without moving. Get rid of the kisser and relax your face/mouth. Even with all that, I would think the problem is just as likely your grip or collapsing.

From: WapitiBob
07-Jan-21
Shortening the draw will just make it worse. With a short axle bow you can't get the string to your nose without dropping your head. The head needs to remain relaxed and level. Increase the bow draw length to get the string to the nose with your head up, your upper torso needs to be expanded not compressed, and shorten the loop to get your release arm back into alignment. Paige, pictured above, is the best wrist release shooter on the planet. Her head is up, she's relaxed, and everything just fits.

From: x-man
07-Jan-21
Lose the kisser. You have a peep, ya don't need that stupid kisser. D-loop should be directly below your eye as viewed from the side. I can't see your bow arm so,... can't say much about that.

07-Jan-21
Agree with WB, but I want to emphasize 4 points.

1. NEVER draw a bow without an arrow on the string...especially when using a release. It doesn’t matter how careful you are, the release or string loop could fail, etc.

2. To execute a good shot, you need to be relaxed. In your photo, your pinky and ring finger look like they’re in a death grip and your index finger resembles an iron rod.

3. I’d recommend getting rid of the kisser (x-man and I were typing at the same time), but either way, you have WAY too much facial contact with the string. Your bow could be perfectly tuned but you’ll still have flight issues due to that contact.

4. I’d find another bow shop.

From: x-man
07-Jan-21
Shorten your release too (if you can). In your picture, the trigger should be one more knuckle farther back. When I'm coaching I tell my shooters, never use the tip of your finger on the trigger, put the trigger in the second "crease".

From: Bob H in NH
07-Jan-21
1) Ditch the kisser, you have a peep 2) Do as above says, close eyes, keep head held high, draw and anchor. Are you looking through the peep? If not, move the peep, not your head.

If the same arrow is flying great, then bad, it's not the level, it's not the tune, its you

From: Cornpone
07-Jan-21
Trust your brain...when you draw a bow you can see if it's "relatively" plumb. If it is, you'll be okay. Shoot a group of five arrows with it plumb. Now shoot a group of five arrows with it canted left or right a bit. I don't think you'll see much difference. Now...if you're shooting 3D or spot where 1/8" is the difference between 10 or X that's different. I used to have a level on my bow but removed it. It was just another "confusing" detail I didn't need for hunting. Quite frankly just trust your brain to what's plumb and what isn't.

From: Drahthaar
07-Jan-21
Put a jersey glove on your left hand it will help with hand toque . Forrest

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21
Well the bow is 31-1/2 inches or maybe 32 inches and I'm just a tad under 6 foot . I actually think it's my whisker biscuit style rest going bad. It's a cheap one that came with the bow. I put alot of arrows through it, and every arrow flew like a dart the first few months I had the bow . u can see the whisker biscuit hole is starting to have a hole ingraved in the bottom right of it where I'm guessing the arrow has been riding( tried to explain that the best way I could through typing) but that doesn't explain why I'll have 3 darts and then an awkward flying arrow( same arrow) so that's why I was thinking it's something I'm doing. It's just messing with my head bcs I'll go outside just to shoot a handful of shots and the first 4 will be darts and I'll be confident and say to myself ," just one more shot and I'm done" and that last shot will fly a little strange ( same arrow) and it messes with my confidence. Especially when I'm trying to identify my kill arrows and mark them

From: Buffalo1
07-Jan-21
I have a bubble sight on my bow.

I have a bubble level on mounted scope of every rifle I own, even my .22

From: WapitiBob
07-Jan-21
If it’s the same arrow maybe it’s bent.

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21
I don't think, it's literally any arrow I pull out of my stash of arrows. It's has to be something im doing. That's the only explanation for it. I was just trying to narrow down what it could be. Could it be the whisker style biscuit wearing out?

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo
No more archery in the house

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Nice looking bow rang haha
Rsquared's embedded Photo
Nice looking bow rang haha

07-Jan-21
Yeah, increase the draw length and lock those arms in like that. Then, next fall you can come back and start a thread about how your bowstring hitting your sleeve cost you an animals. SMH

Your head position scrunching isn’t caused by your draw length. It’s caused by your peep being too low.

07-Jan-21
How about a picture of you at full draw.

From: skookumjt
07-Jan-21
It's not the rest either.

From: Bob H in NH
07-Jan-21
You can replace the whiskers in the rest

Also it sounds like draw is long if you are 31+ and you are under 6 feet. I am 6 foot 2 and shoot under 31 inches and I have long arms

For short money you can replace the whisker insert. I've shot 1000s through mine and its going strong

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21
My draw length is 29 inches, when I said 31-1/2 I was referring to the length of the bow. And I'll eventually get a pic up if me at full draw I just don't have anyone to take the pic at the moment. Gf is at work. I think I'm aiming towards the ground in that picture. I was just trying to show how far back the string came on my face.

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21
And it's not the actual trophy ridge whisker biscuit that I have on my bow . It's a cheap one that came with the bow and I probably have 400+ arrows through it. .. I did just buy the trophy ridge kill shot rest tho

From: Rsquared
07-Jan-21

Rsquared's embedded Photo
Rsquared's embedded Photo
Take it easy on me. I got into archery on mine own. My dad didn't bow hunt so Its not like I ever had anyone to teach me the right way. So I just whent with what felt right. So if my form is terrible, take it easy on me.

From: x-man
08-Jan-21
We're not knocking you, just trying to help. Typing sucks so, short to the point answers can seem harsher than they are meant to be.

Shorten the DL at least a half inch, shorten the release an inch and LOOSEN that grip. No muscles at all from the wrist down! Bone on bone without muscles will hold the bow in place just fine.

08-Jan-21
Your palmingbthe bow. Because your draw is to long to place the handle in the web of your hand. It should fit there loosely. There is nothing wrong with slightly touching your fingers on your bow hand when at full draw. However? You should never full grip anyone.

The bow is plastered in your palm because you bow arm is fully extended. If you’d shorten it up enough, you could place the grip in the web of your hand. Which will slightly bend the bow arm while kicking your wrist angle to the accommodate the web of your hand.

Try it. It’s the only way to keep from engaging the whole palm of your hand.

08-Jan-21
X-nan, we were typing at the same time. RSquared, he did a better job of explaining it then I did. Good luck. And, no one was trying to be harsh. I’m just not good with words.

From: lewis
08-Jan-21
You are getting some great information on here and I hope you pay close attention. I just can’t believe that anyone on this site would be hard on you lol ?? Good luck Lewis

From: Rsquared
08-Jan-21
Ok, I wanna thank everyone for the help, I'm going to a pro shop here in the coming weeks and I'll do as many of u have said. I'm also going to bring up how when tuning the bow they whent ahead and shot it through paper instead of having me be the shooter( at the time I didn't know any better) also, they did the tuning before even cutting my arrows and checking my draw length. I dropped my bow off and they tuned it and when I came back they checked my draw length and cut the arrows. Wouldn't u want to know the length of the exact arrow I would be shooting first? Wouldn't u need to know this to properly tune the bow or isn't it a big deal?

From: WapitiBob
08-Jan-21
Yes, you should have been shooting the bow but you can only get a basic tune from a shop. If you want the best possible for you, you need to do the tuning but you also need to know what you're looking for and what it should feel like. That takes time and is a rabbit hole you may not want nor need to go down.

From: Sand man
08-Jan-21
I got a new sight with a bubble this year. Found it distracting and taped over it. Lots of practice and limiting my shot at an animal to what range I know I’ll be effective. I don’t like to have to “think through” my shots while in the field. To be completely honest, I don’t think I would be able to. Does this result in a shorter range I’m limited to? Absolutely...that’s where stand prep and habitat improvement/modification comes into play. JMO...that what makes the difference between hunting vs. shooting game.

From: Rocky D
08-Jan-21
“ Shorten the DL at least a half inch, shorten the release an inch and LOOSEN that grip. No muscles at all from the wrist down! Bone on bone without muscles will hold the bow in place just fine. ”

Xman , excellent analysis. I was being nice when I said he was coming loose at the shot.

From: Rsquared
09-Jan-21
I loosend my grip and started consistently shooting bullet holes through paper. Before I was shooting a bullet hole, then a right tear, then a high right tear and then a bullet hole and so on and so on.. I haven't had a chance do any shooting from a distance yet. The paper tuning I can do in my house and the advice to loosen and relax my grip seems to have really helped.

From: stringgunner
10-Jan-21
This is a great thread. Thanks to all posting advice.

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