Contributors to this thread:
How Does The X-bow Season Work
For those advocating for a "crossbow season of it's own" how does that work. What days do they get in your plan? What existing seasons are truncated to allow just X-bowers into the woods in a dedicated season.
There is a finite number of days. There is a finite period of time that hunting is effective and biologically sound for a species. How is this special season plugged in without adversely impacting others.
Here in Wyoming the crossbow season is the same as the archery 1-30 Sept for deer & elk. Antelope and other species start Aug 15th. For elk and deer I think they should move then to 1 Oct after special archery season. In my opinion that would be more than fair.
The 2 days in-between Iowa's December gun seasons.
Here in Ohio it runs with our bow season, firearms season, and muzzleloader season. Our deer season this year was from the last weekend in September until February 5/6 I believe. 4 full months plus a few days to use a crossbow.
Midwest X2 that would be the absolute perfect time for a crossgun season.
In some states the crossbow season runs concurrent with the main general archery season. In these states, most who hunt what once was the "bow and arrow" season, now use the scoped and cocked crossbow. Bow and arrow hunting declines further every year as the crossbows are so much easier and more efficient to use. Michigan and Wisconsin are two states where there are less than half of the bowhunters left,.... and as a percentage their numbers decline every year.
Any season you like, as a lesser weapon, and subject to comparable restrictions. CO says no optical sights for ML season, so no scopes for crossbows either.
NOT during archery because NOT a lesser or equivalent weapon...
But I’ve been twitting the Compound Crowd about that for 30 years... Now the shoe’s on the other foot and you guys all complain about not having enough toe room. ..
They get half of gun season. ;)
Season should run February 30-31.
On a serious note Oklahoma’s archery season is Oct 1- Jan 15. If they were to create a season for arrow guns I’d say Dec 1-Jan 15 is really generous. Like I’ve stated if they would lower the limit from 2 bucks to 1 then I don’t care when they hunt. Most would kill their buck with a gun and wouldn’t have a use for an arrow gun.
I “””””””””LOVE””””””””” Midwest’s option !!!!! Also, to piggyback on Brotsky’s idea...I’d even throw in Feb 29th, every few years.
If that option isn’t chosen, I would be fine with them designating our first shotgun season (5 days) as x-gun only season, or, better yet, first season, gun only, & the second shotgun season (9 days), as x-gun only. That way they get extra days.
In the state's current gun season is the only viable option.
I'm ok with them for the entire archery season,............... for those who have a proven disability.
Proven disability is the key. That is not at all what happens.
I enjoy hunting with big bore, open sighted pistols which are only legal during rifle season here. Range is similar to a muzzleloader but I wouldn't dream of trying to wedge my way in to muzzleloader season which already has limited tags.
Ya have to look at enforceability from the state's perspective. They're going to go with what is the easiest to manage and enforce.
Does a bow season or the opportunity to hunt with a bow need to be 1 to 3 months long each year?
Why not have a straight primitive season? No compounds or crossbows allowed.
It doesn't matter what weapon season configuration is used....someone(s) isn't going to be happy.
Give it it's own separate but concurrent season with firearms.... subject to it's own rules and regulations
Let’s just fight amongst each other so the liberals can continue to rule the planet!
There are Liberals among us, that is part of the problem.
Spot on Rocky! Who cares what others use as long as it's legal. I still remember the Jackwad who couldn't help hisself commenting on my first deer taken with a bow in the parking lot. It wasn't a bowkill cause I used a compound. Every now and then I wonder if he ever found his tooth ;)
We can all be on the same team and still have differing opinions on how the specifics of our team should be managed. Crossbow hunter, rifle hunter, muzzleloader hunter, bow hunter, or spear hunter we are all hunters. Those who would take hunting away from us are most definitely on the other team. Liberals are on that team.
The way I see it is the liberal way is just to include everything, the hell with rules. Marriage lets let men marry men. Sports lets let the boys play with the girls if they wear a wig. Lets call a crossgun a bow because it find of sorta looks like a bow. The conservative thing to do is to have some believes and stick to them and don't be a push over.
Sometimes I think Bou' just starts these crossbow threads to see how many posts it takes for Missouribreaks to respond. I wonder if Jimmy has nightmares each night about them... I can see that vein popping out already.
What JohnMC said. To think that we must agree with everything another hunter believes in or does, simply because he/she’s another hunter, is complete nonsense.
Maybe it could start September 31st and end November 31st on odd years that have 366 days in the year.
Bou is good at gettin clicks. Sometimes im positive he is paid by the powers that be...;^)
Maybe bou should try a cat hunt there and not worry about dik dik?
It's shouldered like a gun. Aimed like a gun. So, here in WI. the 9 day gun season would be perfect !
Here in CO the month of September used to be archery-only (recurves and longbows). Then compounds came along so they let them in too. Fast forward and now we have high country rifle deer, rifle bear, and muzzleloaders all crammed into the same time. Crossbows keep trying but so far the Commission has said no, although the new Commissioners might reverse that. Hell, might as well include bombs, poison, and hand grenades too. Sure, let's all stick together.
Crossbows rule the world it’s just that way now. Kinda like the Democrats
I say maybe go ahead and open a crossbow season that runs from Christmas to New Years And you can only hunt cow elk. That would be perfect.
What are you guys smoking?
What are you guys smoking?
And you can only hunt private land and you can only hunt within 100 yards of a haystack that is being destroyed by those cow elk. It’s called the crop damage hunt.
It should be modeled exactly like method of take that Wisconsin uses for bearhunting. Compgun hunters would get certain days one year like nov 1-15 and Crossgun hunters would get nov16-30. Next year it reciprocates and crossguns get first go at it. Better yet every year throw in harvest on a pure quota system for all weapons except those using firearms, they can have their own quota!
half bow, half gun, sounds like all seasons
“Hell, might as well include bombs, poison, and hand grenades too. Sure, let's all stick together.”
Currently this thought process has not been effective across the the nation. Crossbows hunting in the East is not the same out West. IMHO, we need to focus on capabilities in order so we don’t attack the method or the individuals that use crossbows. Many states in the East are not meeting their management objectives so game managers are going to embrace additional hunters. Believe me, I am totally against crossbows for a lot of different animals and locations. Colorado is one state that has used other techniques to limit certain weapons by choosing to use rules that limit technology. If we continue to use the us versus them attitude we are going to continue to lose ground. If we don’t stick together then we will eventually fail in the end.
We are failing, and unfortunately will continue to fail. Remember, we have many hunters who actually voted against hunting in the last presidential election. I am sure many are in government jobs, teachers, auto and trade unions, etc, etc. Although a novel idea, there is no way to stick together. Enjoy it while you can.
You manage herd numbers with more doe tags or take a doe to get a buck tag like some states do. The same hunters killing more bucks does virtually nothing to decrease herd numbers.
Here we go again, hunters crapping on hunters. It's a bit ridiculous that compgun shooters are bitching about crossbow shooters. I have a great idea to solve the entire problem. Let's have the first 2/3 of the season for archery, you remember pure archery, longbow and recurves. Then the last 1/3 of the seasonhI open it up to guys who shoot high tech guns, you know, the horizontal and vertical guns. That would solve the issue with the high tech problem. Let the archers have the majority of the season and the wannabes the last clean part. Fair?
Not a bad idea LBshooter.
Wannabes ? What the hell are you smoking LB ? Matter of fact I think most of the rest of you are on something. Can’t you see yourselves ? Just because you think you’re the tip top of the apex of hunters, THE REAL HUNTERS, you think you should have most of the hunting season to yourself. The stickbow guys hate the compound guys, and vice versa, and both of them hate the crossbow guys. I’ll swear, you act like spoiled little kids.
I like Link's late season recommendation but since I'm also from Oklahoma I know that will never happen. Our wildlife department admits they manage deer for maximum opportunity rather than quality so basically anything goes. Any management for quality is suggested to the hunter: Don't shoot young bucks, kill more does; but nothing is mandated. If I had one suggestion it would be to get rifle season out of November but that would probably increase crossbows even more.
Drycreek, I'm not smoking anything, I was simply pointing out the absurdity of compguns shooters crapping on crossbow shooters. If you as a compgun shooter and your going to say a weapon that's more similar to what you shoot is or should be banned or given less time in the field is a joke, laughable. If trad guys took the same attitude towards every other weapon then we would advocate that you as a compgun shooter don't deserve equal time in the field do to the high tech, easier shooting/killing of game and therefore should have less time to hunt. Let's face it, a compgun has a trigger release, sights, let off making it easy to hold the bow in a cocked position, and weights to counter balance the bow and less vibrations. Your shooting a vertical compgun as oppose to a hirizontal xbow. Not much difference , therefore you have an advantage and therefore should have less time in the field with high tech gear, yes? How about everyone shoots what they want as long as it's legal and don't worry about what the other guy is doing. Hunt the way you like to hunt, and just because someone chooses a different type of weapon shouldn't bother you one bit, and if it does, then you need to work those problems out , because it's your problem. And to your last point, I as a trad shooter don't hate compgun shooters or xbow shooters, why would I? I hunt public land and I'm the only guy shooting trad, everyone else is shooting compguns and xbows. But I am curious why compgun shooters hate trad guys? Is It jealousy that you as a handicapped shooter need high tech? That you lack the skill or commitment to try and master the traditional bow? Or is it that compgun shooters hate all the high tech gadgets that they need to be successful? What is that makes you hate traditional archers?
"It's shouldered like a gun. Aimed like a gun. So, here in WI. the 9 day gun season would be perfect !"
I agree, but I'll raise the bet and toss in the muzzleloader season, too. I just don't see how anybody can still call them a "bow"...you CRANK the damn things to full draw, they stay fully armed until you pull the TRIGGER, and other than a working index finger it takes zero effort to master or shoot one. But, not that I agree, I also realize half of society is all about ZERO EFFORT. (Probably more..)
I cannot speak for the whole state of PA, but here in NE PA, the inclusion of crossbows has not had the negative impact that so many complain about. I think we got full inclusion into archery season in 2012, so 8/9 seasons. Our deer herd has not been decimated. Our public land has not been over run with hunters. We have had no loss of opportunity due to the increase in technology. Our opportunity for deer and bear has been greatly expanded during that time frame. I do not know what percentage of archery deer are now shot with a crossbow in PA. The reason I don't know is that I don't care. Makes no difference to me what somebody else uses. I'm only concerned with the tag that is in my pocket, nobody else's. I shoot a compound and never cared what anybody else thought about that either.
I know a handful of guys that hunt with crossbows. They are not low-lifes based on their weapon choice. They are not launching 80-100 yard shots as the norm. Quite frankly many of them aren't any more successful than vertical bow hunters.
Our tags are unlimited, and that makes the difference. Where tags are limited is a whole different situation and should be handled differently. In the case of IA and CO, I hope they don't get included in archery season.
LB, I stand corrected ! I had to go back and re-read your post. I gotta stop rolling my own......
Good post Jethro. I've had similar experience with crossbow hunters.
Some of you folks just don't get it. Two point to make.
First it not about in fighting with other hunters. It is about policing our own. If we don't stand up and set limits for ourselves. Someone else is going to do it. I live in Colorado we don't allow crossguns in archery season. Any of you have hunted here know that OTC units are too crowded as it is without allowing crossguns. If you want to hunt a draw unit it is take many more years than it use to. Gun hunter that want to hunt in CO have four season to do that and they can use a rifle or a crossgun in any of those season. It about standing up for archery seasons we currently have and not watering down what it is to bowhunt.
Second point is the point of a trad bow vs a compound vs crossgun. No doubt a compund is easier than a trad bow. Also a crossgun is easier than a compound. With that said I am 44 I started bowhunting in my teens. So I have been bowhunting roughly 30 years. 30 years ago my first bow was compound. 30 years ago there were very few bowhunters. We were not stepping all over each other. I am sure that was even more the case when compounds first came out. That is not the case today. If bowhunters today were far and few between the crossbow probably would be a nonissue. That is not the case. I am all for intruding new hunters to the sport. But the crossgun is not the answer to that. I like most bowhunters started hunting with a rifle and we wanted either more of a challege or more chances to hunt probably both. If newer rifle hunters want a chance to hunt more pick up a real bow. If they want more of challenge I would not think the crossgun is the answer. IMHO many of you are missing the point of what it is to be a bowhunter.
I will need some time to digest that one.
I love how proponents always try to claim "recruitment" as a valid reason. There is not one person in this country who is sitting there thinking, "Gee I would love to take up hunting, if only they would allow crossbows in archery season".
“ First it not about in fighting with other hunters. It is about policing our own. If we don't stand up and set limits for ourselves.”
JohnMC, I think that you are missing the point. I don’t think that the crossbow guys want you to be policing their ranks and I don’t think that they want to be bowhunters or they would have bought a bow instead of a crossbow.
The point is that we have to reframe the discussion or bowhunters will lose ground. Many times it is not the question but how the question presented.
As bow hunters we’ve been privileged to be able to hunt the rut with archery gear - in some states exclusively. Look at Iowa - no guns in the rut and it’s the premier whitetail spot. Makes me wonder what adding crossbows to archery season will do - I see no advantages for the bow hunter.
Here in VA crossbow season coincides with bow season. Additionally, they can be used in black powder and rifle season.... so, basically anytime you can use a compound or real bow. I have all three, and do not discriminate. I find my compound to be only slightly less effective than the crossbow. This is mainly due to my experience of not having a lot of longs shots over the last 12 or so years (different story during modern gun). I think I'm done hunting crossbow hunting now that my shoulder is healed. On to something newer. I recently got into traditional archery... who knows, If I practice enough what could be possible. Also, I think "airbows" have been brought into the fold here in VA as well, but I'm not sure they qualify as archery tackle. I do disagree with that..... considering there is nothing "bow like" about it. Airbows are airguns which shoot a arrow or bolt like projectile. I think some of them will also shoot bullets.
“ Just because you think you’re the tip top of the apex of hunters, THE REAL HUNTERS, you think you should have most of the hunting season to yourself.”
Or maybe it’s just that the season was conceived as a low-participation, low-success opportunity for those who either loved archery (as defined by the equipment of the day) or who craved solitude to such a degree that they were willing to trade the lethal potential of a scoped rifle for that of a Stickbow in order to gain access to the low-pressure opportunity.
“I think that you are missing the point. I don’t think that the compound guys want you to be policing their ranks and I don’t think that they want to be bowhunters or they would have bought a Stickbow instead of a compound.”
See, you just had two little words wrong there. Fixed that for you.
"I don’t think that the crossbow guys want you to be policing their ranks and I don’t think that they want to be bowhunters or they would have bought a bow instead of a crossbow."
Why do they want to hunt in bowseason if they don't want to be bowhunters? Your probably right. They just want an easy way to hunt with as close to a rifle as they can get away with.
This is super easy really. Stick em in any firearm season via lesser weapon laws. Done.
I have zero issue with folks who "need" to use them due to health/injury using them (special permit - easy breezy) during archery.
But they remove the thing that to me (as you can see, this is entirely opinion based) is the biggest differentiation between gun and bow... or bow and Xbow. Having to draw the weapon in the presence of game.
It's a losing battle though. I'm guessing in a few years they are legal most places as a weapon to use during archery season.
When I did look at data it looked like the initial few years after inclusion you had a small number of bowhunters swap, and a lot of gun guys take advantage of the longer season and buy a crossbow and start to hunt with them. But then I think it started to settle and a lot of those folks bailed after like 3-5 years or so. I want to say that data was from Wisco or Ohio... Been a while since I looked at it.
I'm still stuck on the drawing in presence of game thing though. Compound, long bow, recurve... You have that same skill - game is close and in range, and you have to draw the bow. That's not the case with the crossbow.
It's not a "no you cant hunt with crossbows" issue. It's just a "put em with various gun seasons vs bow seasons" issue... To me.
I agree. Letting xbow hunters in the archery season because they identify as "bow" hunters is like letting dudes in the lady's room at Target because they identify as "girls". We gotta bring common sense back and draw a line or else we will forget what it is any more, and the only way I can see allowing xbows in the regular archery season is as a medical exemption allowing it...and even then some guys have to push the envelope and try and sneak in.
You all realize that a crossbow was around way before a compound, right ?
Croixbaby x2, I have been calling it the transgun. Living in Wi. know doubt you have seen what it has reaped, the buck kill has definitely increased.
The modern scoped crossbow machine was not around before the compound bow. Yes there were more primitive versions, but nothing like exists today.
I think it should run concurrent with all current gun season. Since you cant find ammo these days might be all you can hunt with lol
You could say the same thing with today's compound bow and stick bows with modern technology and materials
Yes, most weapons have evolved and are more efficient, I agree with that. As far as numbers go, the midwestern whitetail deer can largely take the increased pressure from technology, I do not believe the mule deer, elk and other more fragile species can. Point creep and quota seasons will have to become more restrictive, and they will.
"You all realize that a crossbow was around way before a compound, right ?"
Yea...I guess....So were rifles, but I prefer not to have them in an archery season either.....
allready working on advanced modles, compounds are going be old school,
Policy Statement Bowhunting Seasons:
The CBA will promote seasons and season structures that strengthen and enhance the opportunities for bowhunting with the hand held, hand drawn bow and actively oppose seasons and season structures that diminish or degrade those opportunities without evidence of overriding wildlife management goals.
Legal Bowhunting Equipment:
The CBA will develop and promote bowhunting regulations with thresholds that limit hunters to using only the hand held, hand drawn bow and that emphasize archery and bowhunting skills.
The CBA categorically rejects crossbow technology as being legal archery equipment for use during any archery season in Colorado, and will actively oppose the use of crossbows or implementation of crossbow seasons under any circumstance, where such use will diminish or degrade the bowhunting experience, opportunity and/or quality with the hand held, hand drawn bow
Here in CO crossbows are allowed in rifle seasons. Seeing someone hunt with one is about like seeing bigfoot.
The reason they are being allowed in State's bow seasons more and more isn't because there was some big group of dedicated crossbow hunters using them during rifle who wanted to enhance their opportunity. Crossbow sales/users come after inclusion. Then, many Bowhunters switch weapons and some rifle hunters switch seasons.
In Mississippi a crossbow can be used by anybody from the opening of Archery Season, Oct. 1, to the end of gun deer season.
I would have to say there have been on real issues with crossbows and they have not cleaned the woods out as originally projected.
Concurrent with muzzle loader season and shotgun/rifle. It is a loaded shoulder fired weapon so those would work.
Big dog whatever that thing is in the picture it certainly isnt a bow, looks like a arrow gun. LB shooter I’m with you. I shoot a compound but I wish all archery seasons were no cam(primitive). I’d gladly go that direction instead of the direction arrow season is heading.
"In Mississippi a crossbow can be used by anybody from the opening of Archery Season, Oct. 1, to the end of gun deer season. I would have to say there have been on real issues with crossbows and they have not cleaned the woods out as originally projected."
With the new airbow bill cruising through the legislature, maybe all the crossbow did was provide a convenient transitional step....as we all projected it would
Mississippi has always been a one-off with bowhunting. They still allow poison pods, as far as I know, and that hasn't wrecked the archery seasons.
Went hunting with a customer in Mississippi. He used pods. We met before dawn at his house and he couldn't find them. Ran to his toddlers room to check on her worried that he left them sitting out on the kitchen counter. She was fine, we found the pods and he stopped using them after that.
Sounds like the CBA has it right. Wish WI would look at that.
Bigdog21 that thing don't look nothing like my Longbow. I shot Compounds for 30 years and wanted more of a Challenge so I started shooting Longbows and Recurves and having a lot more fun,(That was my choice, you shoot what you want) BUT No Crossbows in Archery season UNLESS you have a Definate Handicap or you are under the age of 12 or there abouts.
Absolutely zero need for a 12-year-old to be bow hunting, IMHO… They have plenty of years ahead of them to figure it out. No sense setting them up for a high probability of failure at an early age…
IMHO, age is not the deciding factor and "need" is not even a consideration. If the youngster can physically draw a state's legal definition of a bow ...and puts in the time to shoot accurately, why not take him/her bowhunting? That "high probability of failure at an early age" isn't that much different from an adult if Dad does his job.
The photo is my son's first bowkill....15 yard shot and a 50 yard recovery. He was thirteen years old and one of the smallest kids in his class. He earned the right to bowhunt at age twelve. That year, he got busted twice drawing his bow and missed his only shot opportunity of the season. It was a pretty nice buck, he had to wait for the right shot angle and buck fever got the best of him. Those are learning curve moments in my book....not failures.
In some states kids can begin hunting much younger, the diaper brigade. The gun or crossbow is generally held in a shooting vice while the mentor lines up the crosshairs on the animal. The child then pulls the trigger. This actually happens and is supported by hunters in some states.
Make room because it’s the future weather you so called purists like it or not.
MIssouribreaks - "In some states kids can begin hunting much younger, the diaper brigade. The gun or crossbow is generally held in a shooting vice while the mentor lines up the crosshairs on the animal."
Absolutely. The son of a female co-worker killed his first deer last fall....with a crossbow...at age seven! Said her husband used a pop up blind and a tripod setup for their young son. Rifles are legal during youth season here, but they were concerned about the young man's reaction to noise and recoil.
The dad is an avid bowhunter, so hopefully the young man will graduate to a vertical bow in a few years.
I'm not sorry, but 7 years old is too young. I'll just leave it like that and not preach.
I don’t disagree with you, Pav; if the kid can draw a legal bow and has demonstrated actual proficiency with it, that’s a whole ’nother conversation....
Should be the same as muzzle loader
I didn't read all the posts right now, so this may of been cover if so sorry.
First, I don't know why so many have to throw left vs right into so many thread. I bet that there is more from the right that hunt than the left, so I'd say there's more folks that are on the right that hunt with xboxs. Maybe I'm just venting here as I'm finding myself looking at Facebook and even hunting sites much less anymore. . Because I'm just people throwing politics in to everything you read.
Now why a xbow season and not a archery season. My take. When 80 % of the folks are hunting in archery season with xbow and they cut the season from say 8 weeks to 4 weeks that means the hand bows and xbows season get cut the same. With a hand bow season thats 8 weeks and a xbow thats 8 weeks and run at the same time. You can cut the one season back, but still keep the other season at 8 weeks. Again this may of been covered by some one else, if so sorry. Ed