Summit Treestands
Interesting Outfitter Review/Response
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 05-Apr-21
Novembermadman 05-Apr-21
t-roy 05-Apr-21
KY EyeBow 05-Apr-21
70lbdraw 05-Apr-21
Ward's Outfitters 05-Apr-21
greg simon 05-Apr-21
Old School 05-Apr-21
Dale06 05-Apr-21
Hancock West 05-Apr-21
Rob Nye 05-Apr-21
Highlife 05-Apr-21
APauls 05-Apr-21
Iowa_Archer 05-Apr-21
Kydeer1 05-Apr-21
ki-ke 05-Apr-21
Highlife 05-Apr-21
Guardian hunter 05-Apr-21
Buffalo1 05-Apr-21
Bake 05-Apr-21
Bou'bound 05-Apr-21
drycreek 05-Apr-21
Mike Ukrainetz 05-Apr-21
Brotsky 05-Apr-21
RK 05-Apr-21
GF 05-Apr-21
KHNC 06-Apr-21
Missouribreaks 06-Apr-21
Pete In Fairbanks 06-Apr-21
JohnMC 06-Apr-21
SteveB 06-Apr-21
IdyllwildArcher 06-Apr-21
Bowfreak 06-Apr-21
Thornton 06-Apr-21
ki-ke 06-Apr-21
Slate 06-Apr-21
RK 06-Apr-21
Spiral Horn 06-Apr-21
JL 06-Apr-21
Pat Lefemine 06-Apr-21
Jaquomo 06-Apr-21
Colin76 07-Apr-21
BigEight 07-Apr-21
sticksender 07-Apr-21
Pop-r 07-Apr-21
JL 07-Apr-21
Hancock West 07-Apr-21
Spiral Horn 07-Apr-21
From: Pat Lefemine

Pat Lefemine's Link
This is a perfect example why we always send the review to the outfitter so they can respond. Judge for yourself.

People never cease to amaze me anymore, in a bad way that is! This outfitter sounds legit and I agree with his stance. In the world we live in and social media having the power to ruin a person's business and reputation quickly I would demand any negative rhetoric from this hunter/whiner be removed immediately (and never be invited back).

From: t-roy
Social media (reviews, comments, etc) can be a two edged sword. It’s great to be able to get feedback on products, outfitters and such, but it sucks that there’s no real way to filter out what is legit vs what is sour grapes or just plain slander.

That’s one of the great things about Bowsite, especially if you’ve been on here for awhile. You can usually get a pretty good feel for who’s opinions to trust, who to ask for their thoughts/advice on various subjects and who is just blowing smoke.

From: KY EyeBow
Unfortunately, this is very reflective of our current society. Sad indeed. If you or your business has ever been targeted by someone like this, you will understand how mad and frustrated this makes you feel and it CAN negatively affect your business. The social media platforms/internet have given "credibility" to anyone wishing to spew information about you, whether it is true or not................ I do appreciate Pat taking the review back to the business owner and getting his side of the story. Too bad other platforms won't do the same thing.

From: 70lbdraw
Too many folks think that hiring a guide is a guarantee to a successful hunt.

It's Crazy how people will misconstrued the facts.

From: greg simon
I mean who wouldn't be pissed about a hunt where they kill a 140 inch whitetail buck in the first hour?

From: Old School
t-roy x2

From: Dale06
I’d kill a 140” any time, any day. So, someone in the outfitter review and outfitter response is lying. Who is it?

From: Hancock West
Bogus review.. I know Colin Paly and he is a top notch guy. I was supposed to bear hunt with him last year. Waited 2.5 years for that trophy bear hunt to only have covid back it up. But he's rolling it over for his clients which is all we can hope for. He's been tagging some giants too. In my opinion he's the real deal. All calls & texts returned promptly. Hate to see a good guy ran thru the mud like this.

From: Rob Nye
It is good that the outfitter gets a chance to respond to reviews before they are posted. Well done Pat.

From: Highlife
Thought this was going to be another Cody Carr review lol

From: APauls
Food - Good

Quality of Hunt - Very Good

Quantity of animals - Good

Trophy care - Good

Logistics - Good

Would I recommend outfitter? After tagging out first morning on a 140"? Heeeeeeeell no. Understandable. Might I recommend some light reading on the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.

I don't care if the outfitter shoots a 200" every single year. If what he is selling is what he is delivering what does it matter what he does on his own time?? Matters dick all that's what. Whiney entitled attitude. Classic.

From: Iowa_Archer
I agree with the sentiment that online reviews can be great and very useful OR they can be terribly unfair and misleading and it is hard to tell the difference many times. That said, I think it is very good that the outfitter can reply and square the record here on Bowsite.

From: Kydeer1
Reviews give some good insight on outfits and things for people to consider. They can be misleading in many ways however I really like that bowsite will notify both parties to give their side of the story. If the outfitter doesn't respond I feel like you have your answer and they don't care. If they do reply we all know what type of client they were dealing with.

From: ki-ke
I believe there should be a chat room attached to each review, so the BS internet army can weigh in and give the "live or die" thumbs up or thumbs down sign. Imagine how fun this one would be!!

Your honor Lefimeneninem, for the defense:

"So the jackwad, I mean, "hunter", books a hunt, kills his target buck, his biggest, btw, in the 1st hour of his hunt, sticks around for the rest of the week, eating the outfitters "ok" food and sleeping in the "ok" accommodations, drives around with the guide every day, asking him all kinds of questions"....Sidebar your honor? Your honor, does Alberta allow Canadian residents to hunt outside their province without a guide? If so, if the outfitter in question is hunting Crown land, couldn't the tool bag.....sorry your honor, "hunter", return on his own and hunt the same lands after gathering intel for a week?

Later, on day 3 of BS deliberations; "Your honor Lefininemeeaux, we the BS jury find the offendant, guilty of being a dooshnozzle of the wormy kind and order him banished to hunting public land whitetails in Ct for 10 years. In addition, we ask that you obligate him to post each hunt as a live hunt on Bowsite, so he may face additional scrutiny and more well deserved beratement over his feeble attempts at bowhunting. He also needs to buy a non resident alien all around Sportsmans license and have his car emptied and searched by Border Services upon entry into the US. Upon exit from the US, he must be strip and cavity searched, but only at every other exit from the great US of A.

The outfitter in question must be cleared of all charges. Pat L. will visit the outfitter next November, kill a 218-3/8 NT and restore the outfitters well deserved excellent reputation.

Thank you, your honor.

From: Highlife
Math iis off brother 218- 7/8 ;)

Sounds like Dabba ought to say something or be presumed one who omits material facts. Aka liar.

From: Buffalo1
"The client made his own call on the deer he harvested and was very pleased with it as he said it was the biggest whitetail he ever killed."

Client could have just had a knee-jerk reaction and killed the "only" deer he had ever killed in his life. Therefore, it would quality for the "biggest" he had ever killed. Darren is putting forth a good effort to be on an official "unwanted client" listing.

From: Bake

From: Bou'bound
People are the best entertainment available. Just sit back and watch them be people. it's great.

From: drycreek
ki-ke, while I agree with your assessment, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Nobody should have to run live hunts in CT ! :-)

It’s complete bogus but good press for the outfitter since everyone will be looking this outfitter up online to see how he does. I’ve heard he runs an excellent operation! The hunter is also actually accusing the outfitter of doing something illegal in Alberta. Guiding and hunting in the same day. If it’s legit, have him charged... oh yeah it’s not!

From: Brotsky
A guy that never posts here comes here to do a review about a rifle hunt. I’m believing the outfitter here.

From: RK
Great response from the outfitter. Pointed out the reality and then offered up the legal challenges that were ahead of the client if he did not right the wrong

In 40 years we have had two bad reviews. Both in the Hunting Report. Which was the holy grail before the Internet and sites like the Bowsite.

One was our fault completly and we made good on it before the review was even posted. The other was similar to this one, pure BS. Retraction was printed after we pointed out how wrong the review was

Bowsite method is the perfect way of doing these reviews

From: GF
“ while I agree with your assessment, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Nobody should have to run live hunts in CT ! ”

And those of us who have to hunt here shouldn’t be forced to share the woods with him....

From: KHNC
In this case, the hunter readily admitted to killing the 140" buck that he knew was coming to the stand site. At that point, he shouldnt have been upset with what the outfitter did on his own time. Especially if he killed the buck on the first hour of the first morning hunt! He didnt give the area a chance to produce anything larger, if that was his goal in the first place. A personal best buck in the first hour would have satisfied 95% of the hunters out there. I believe in giving honest reviews, good or bad. I especially appreciate an honest response from an outfitter. In my opinion, it does sound like the outfitter gave an honest reply to the review.

I don’t understand the motivation to write a false narrative when you admit to being happy with your success. Why?

The mature buck the outfitter harvested, was he aware of that buck while his client was hunting? If so was the client offered the opportunity to hunt it? Just don’t understand why he would be upset unless the phone call revealed info he wasn’t given before? But, I guess he could have made it all up.

I am guessing there is more to this story.

This underscores what I said for many years while in the outfitting business. Guides and outfitters should maintain a list of HUNTING CLIENTS one should never accept a deposit from... much less have in camp!

Pete Alaska Master Guide #79 (retired)

From: JohnMC
I believe what the guy is claiming and upset about is the outfitter held out on him and put him on a lesser buck so that he the outfitter could hunt a larger one. From the outfitters response I doubt that was the case. However I believe the hunter truly believe that and for that reason it probably was bad idea for outfitter to hunt with a hunter in camp even if he has filled his tag. There is always a decent chance the hunter would be upset if the outfitter kills a bigger one.

From: SteveB
I usually find that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Who shoots whitetails with a rifle?

From: Bowfreak
I'm glad this guy reported this travesty! An outfitter who puts you on a 140" deer the first hour of the first day. Guys would like up for this kind of a hunt.

From: Thornton
The wording indicates the hunter was happy until he realized there was a bigger one that could have been hunted and the outfitter got it. The outfitter put emphasis on the fact his wife did not get one in an attempt to make the hunter feel better and convince him he was a priority. As stated, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

From: ki-ke
Wait....This was a rifle hunt??!! And we're still talking about it??

Now I have to have down another 5 fingers of Jameson for the inspiration to rewrite the nonsense in my last post.

Ike, you suck. Why didn't you tell me that sooner??

From: Slate
Will never know the actual truth.

From: RK
Very true Slate. The best thing is does not matter if any of us ever know the truth

From: Spiral Horn
Think John is pretty much on target with this case. This is the client’s very first guided hunt so it’s pretty clear he really doesn’t have much frame of reference and expectations are a bit inflated. But certainly taking a 140 class buck in the first hour of the hunt is not typical and nothing to complain about. On the other hand, most of us who’ve been to a rodeo or two have witnessed or heard stories of outfitters or guides “sandbagging” that truly exceptional buck for themselves. Not saying that’s what happened here, but it is not all that uncommon, and it upsets anyone paying for a hunt. It could be that the outfitter didn’t know the buck was there and just lucked into him, but as John said - if he’s running a hunting business he shouldn’t be hunting himself while he has hunters in camp. Nothing good can come from that.

From: JL
I think it's a great idea to let the outfitter provide a rebuttal to good/bad reviews. After all....he/she has skin in the game.

In this case, it looks like this was the hunters first guided deer hunt. He likely doesn't know each outfitter operates a little different or what exactly to expect once he arrives in camp. HFW does offer an alternative thought above. Was the outfitter holding back the big buck he harvested for his own hunt while knowingly putting the paying first time hunter on the 140" buck? If I was an outfitter....I think it would be great PR if my clients shot the biggest bucks that year.

Maybe a broader question.......should outfitter/guides be hunting while clients are still in camp?? In all the guided hunts I have done.....caribou, moose, deer, bear, antelope....I never had the guide or outfitter go hunting while I was there. Maybe at the end of the season?? I don't know....maybe that is a normal thing at the end of the season??? Anyone else ever see that?? Maybe the resident outfitters here can offer a perspective or policy on that?

From: Pat Lefemine
I have no issue with an outfitter hunting after my hunt is over. I also have no issue with the outfitter keeping a big buck for himself to hunt later. Where it gets sticky is if your hunt is constrained in some way because the outfitter doesn't want to disturb a particular buck he's holding for himself. That's not cool.

From: Jaquomo
More often, we hear about the outfitter sandbagging a big animal (and the area where it lives) for the TV hunting celebrities coming in later. In this case, sounds like the hunter was upset at himself for shooting his PB in the first hour, and somehow tried to deflect the blame for his decision toward the outfitter.

Maybe he suspects the outfitter was holding out on the location of the buck he finally killed. Or being somewhat of a newbie (it seems) somehow thought the outfitter's buck was tied to a tree. It's deer hunting. Guy could have held out all week, but couldn't pass on the one he killed. I don't feel sorry for him. Life is about decisions.

From: Colin76
I happen to be the outfitter in this discussion. As an outfitter you are never going to make everyone happy. You strive to but there are going to be individuals that are always going to look to put blame anywhere but on themselves. What I have a problem with is when someone makes up false accusations of me breaking the law. It is Illegal for a guide or outfitter to hunt the same day as a client in Alberta. Darren shot his deer in the first hour of the first day of his 8 day hunt. The one other client in camp harvested her deer the same day late in the afternoon. I spent the entire day with Darren , took field pictures, field dressed his deer , brought it back to lodge , skinned , quartered and hung it. Caped it and prepared shill plate fo transport. Along many other things that day before I went to pick up the other client and her deer. I would like him to explain at what point during the day did me or my wife who was watching my 4 year old and 1 year go out hunting??? Darren was put in a great spot where I had 3 mature deer on camera. And being the rut who knows what else could show up. He saw pictures of all 3 deer , the one he shot was the smallest of the three. No body sat with him , he made his own call . It was a very nice mature deer. I think a better deer than what it scored because of its age. As an outfitter you try to put your clients in a position to succeed. Darren was not comfortable shooting past 150 yards. Which is why he was placed where he was so you don’t put him in a position that he is not capable of handling and end up wounding an animal. He chose to remain in camp for the rest of his trip where we did our best to entertain him during that time. Me and my wife took turns sitting over the course of the week . I was fortunate to harvest a buck . A old mature deer that I never knew was in the area! In a spot where Darren never hunted because he never held out long enough to get there! If someone has a problem with an outfitter going hunting once his clients are done shame on them!! This is my livelihood , look at the deer my clients harvest on our website and see if you think we are holding out on them! I have no problem with forms like this but when accusations of illegal activities are put on here the person in charge of the form should maybe think twice about letting it be posted and let the law sort it out.I am well within my rights to take legal action if I chose against this client!

From: BigEight
Colin76, I feel this review might back fire on him. I think a lot of people have probably checked out your website since this thread went up. I'd be upset if somebody said I was doing something illegal as well. I think you'll get the last laugh. I know I checked out your website and I've never done a guided hunt my entire life!

From: sticksender
This outfitter review will most likely be a net positive for the outfitter, even though this is an archery hunting site. Free advertising really. OTOH the lawsuit stuff that he keeps bringing up sounds far-fetched. IMO if you're actually taking legal action, you don't keep threatening it, you just do it. People are free to talk about their experiences, and some may even lie about it. In this case it seems clear what happened, and the drive-by reviewer seems to have been outed.

From: Pop-r
I can't imagine having an imagination like some and then to be willing to actually write their thoughts. Smh.

From: JL
Colin76....good explanation of Alberta law WRT to outfitters hunting the same day as the client. I suspect that was put there for a reason. I also suspect many non-Alberta folks didn't know that.

"If someone has a problem with an outfitter going hunting once his clients are done shame on them!!"

WRT to the above....I would humbly suggest that depends on the particular situation. I wouldn't say that with a broad brush. If an outfitter has a break in between hunters departing/arriving in camp, goes hunting and shoots the deer....I can see where you could have a conflict of interest and upset some of the incoming hunters if they found out about it. If all the booked/scheduled hunters are gone and it's near the end of the season....have at it. Optics and perceptions are everything.

Thanks for explaining the Alberta law....that's good to know.

From: Hancock West
Classic ego problem. His buck was big & just fine until someone killed a bigger one. Look at the smile on his face in the trophy pick.

From: Spiral Horn
Agree with JL. Didn’t know that particular Alberta law either but it is very good to know.

However, the outfitter, family, friends or guides hunting the same properties as the clients, even if not on the same day, will undoubtedly create some doubt about whether the team was completely focused on getting clients on the biggest bucks. That’s especially true when one of the team takes a real whopper. It can be completely innocent but it’s just not a good optic.

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