Seeder or No Till Drill
Whitetail Deer
On my Farms in Southern Oklahoma I have a little over 10 acres of food plots to plant and I have been using the throw and mow method or maybe it should be called spray and pray method for the last couple of years and it works okay but I have never gotten great results. There are several problems with this method, one is that the seeds are on the surface and with larger seeds like Wheat, Oats and Rye the hogs can just hammer the seed. Second is that since the seeds germinates close to the surface and the hot weather that we often get through September can kill the plants. Last year we had good rains mid-September but then it turned hot and dry and didn’t rain for over a month. My plots started out good but then wilted in the hot/dry weather with only edges of the plots that were shaded grew very well. The local farmers who plant wheat for cattle grazing disk the fields and then drill the seed had much better results.
I have been researching food plot equipment and there seems to be two groups, the all in one seeders like the Woods Food Plot Seeder or the Firminator which have a disk, a seeder, and a cultipacker all in one and the No-Till-Drills like Genesis, Great Plains, and Landpride.
Seeder:
Advantages: Less Expensive, can disk/seed with one implement , can emulate a no till drill, lighter weight.
Disadvantages: Typically at least a two pass planting process, turns the soil over and opens the soil to drying and erosion.
No-Till -Drill:
Advantages: One pass planting, minimal soil disturbance, can drill annuals into perennial plots, better for building soil
Disadvantages: Expensive, will likely need to Spray to kill, Very Heavy.
My question for those who have experience, if you could buy either piece of equipment regardless of the price difference what would you purchase and why?
If you say price doesn't matter, no-till drill all day long. Opening the ground with a disk opens everything up to so much competition from weeds and every other seed thats present. Spray and kill everything, then drill. Some are even putting sprayers on the front of their tractors and doing it all in one pass. Expensive setup but it sure seems like the way to go.
JM,
It really depends on what you are planting. If you are planting beans and corn, then I really like row planters over drills and precision seeder/one pass devices. If you are planting brassicas, clover, or alfala it's hard to beat the one-pass units like Woods. If you are planting rye, oats, wheat, peas, etc then the drill is best.
For the acreage you're planting I would have a hard time justifying a drill. They are really expensive unless you get a beat up drill on auction or through craigslist but understand that if you need to fix them, they are a bitch.
I am now planting about 40 acres of plots between my 3 properties. I don't own a drill. I just can't justify it. For the things I would need a drill for, I disk, broadcast, and then run a cultipacker over it. Works perfectly fine for me. It's not no-till but for the acres you are managing, disking should be Ok. I know that one of the habitat guys' tells everyone to use no-till drills. He's also sponsored by a drill manufacturer. .
I've been doing this for over 20 years and if I was starting out with a 10k budget this is what I'd buy:
1. Used JD 4-row 7000 planter (4k)
2. Used 10' cultipacker ($1500)
3. Used 10' travel disk harrow ($1500)
4. ATV mounted seeder/spreader ($500)
5. A good quality boom sprayer ($1000)
6. A good quality rotary cutter ($1500)
Thanks for the responses!
I have a ten acre field and a five acre field I would love to plant in corn but I suspect the hogs would destroy it.
I definitely don't want an old beater drill I don't have the time for one, the main reasons I have considered a Drill is to preserve the soil moisture an minimize the time to plant.
I probably should give disk, spread, cultipack a try before jumping into a drill.
Look for an old John Deere 71 planter with coulters. It will no till if it has coulters. They are good old planters and parts are still available. I use mine for soybeans, corn, rye, egyptian wheat, sorghum, lab lab, chufas and diakon radish. I still disk/till for the small seeds and cultipack. Mine has three planters on a 3 pt hitch, which is slow, but I plant small acreage and cant justify a drill.
Look for an old John Deere 71 planter with coulters. It will no till if it has coulters. They are good old planters and parts are still available. I use mine for soybeans, corn, rye, egyptian wheat, sorghum, lab lab, chufas and diakon radish. I still disk/till for the small seeds and cultipack. Mine has three planters on a 3 pt hitch, which is slow, but I plant small acreage and cant justify a drill.
I plant wheat and medium red clover in the fall, and sometimes daikon radish mixed in. In the spring it’s buckwheat in some plots and iron clay peas in others. A spray rig, a disk, a seeder, and a homemade tire drag is all I use. I don’t disk very deep and I get great results. The wheat in this pic that I just terminated was four feet tall.
Looking at the JD Planters it looks like they are all 30 inch spacing, are you making a second pass between the rows to get down to 15inch rows when planting Soybeans or wheat?
Drycreak your plot looks great, when are you planting Buckwheat?
30" rows at my Ohio ground last year.
30" rows at my Ohio ground last year.
I plant both beans and corn at 30" rows. Unless you are planting for production and trying to max out your tillable ground for the biggest yields, 30" rows are fine. GMO seeds are pricey and you will x2 your seed buy for 15" rows with no real benefit for a plotter - IMO.
I would disagree (a little) with Pat’s assessment of no real benefit of narrower spacing of rows (on soybeans) With 15” spacing of your rows vs 30”, you will get quicker canopy with 15” rows, which can help some with weed suppression. Also, you can set your planting rate lower to adjust for less seeds planted per foot, then double row them. You will still probably plant more seeds per acre this way, but not terribly bad. There are also still quite a few 38” row spacing planters out there, as well. Double rowing with it, you will end up with 19” spacing vs 15”. I have a 30” 6 row planter, and overall, I’d say going with 30” spacing, the advantages of it, (planting, spraying, etc) far outweigh any benefits of narrower rows, for soybeans at least.
JM, I’m hoping to plant this week if it stops raining in time. Iron clay cowpeas in some plots and buckwheat in others. My main spring plot is the peas, but I plant buckwheat in all new plots for the first two years. Helps the soil and knocks down weeds. The bees love it too !
RAIN? what the heck is that? Bone dry in north Idaho. Nothing significant since March. Worst I’ve seen in 25 years.
Spray, disc, broadcast & cover is all you need to do. And if it's a small seed like clover or turnips, don't cover it. That's all I do & it works great. I made a drag out of some old tires.
Genesis 5 light
Genesis 5 light
After considering everyone's advice I just went ahead and did what I wanted :) Actually the input was very helpful. I considered a 4 row planter and looked around but there was not much available and what was was fairly expensive. I would like to be able to plant corn but I think the wild hogs would destroy it. I also don't think I have a plot big enough to plant soybeans so I think I am going to be mostly planting rye, oats, wheat, and peas. Well it took a little while but attached you can see my new toy. One thing I can tell people from hooking up the Genesis 5 light no till drill that the drill is very heavy and it is all my Kubota L6060 wants to handle.
That’s a sweet little unit. Looks brand new? Ouch!
If it’s too heavy for your 60 then you’ll need to convince yourself (and wifey) that you need a bigger tractor. ;-)
Pat, It's brand new, came in a little late to plant the fall food plots. I might need a bigger tractor anyway :)
John, HUGE congrats as you will love it.
I have a 3 pt Landpride No Till drill and love it for turnip, rape, kale rhutabaga, radish (one mix all at one time), alfalfa, clover, rye and oat plantings. I have a sandy loam and love to plant the day after a rain (assuming I’ve already sprayed Gly on the cover crop to kill it)
Make sure you’ve got plenty of weight on it (I added 780lbs of weights to my drill ) and you’ll love it!
I have a Woods FPS7200 and a Genesis 3. No question in my mind the no till drill is way more important. In fact I haven’t even used the woods since I got the Genesis. Wish I never bought the Woods. I’ll be selling it this spring. Only used it 2 seasons. Yes the Woods is better for small seed legumes but a hand spreader on tilled soil with a cultipacker works just fine and I only do that every 5 years or so. Genesis drills into anything. In fact I drilled Rye into my lawn and it’s coming up great. I drill all sorts of cereal grains into alfalfa and clover.
Thanks for the input I hope to put it to some use on some spring plots to learn how to use it. I am hoping to improve my plots in more the more marginal locations.
One thing I can tell from my initial inspection is the the drill looks to be made very well nothing looks cheaply made. We will have to see how it performs.
What part of southern OK are you in? If your close, your more then welcome to come over to my place and put a few test plots in! :)
There are two Medicnemans! can't be possible :) My farms are in Love county.
Mark with 780 ponds added your drill must be north of 3000 ponds.
I'm looking for a seeder as well. I don't have Genesis money, plus I have a disc, Woods 72" tiller and a 7' old, heavy cultipacker that came with the property (PO had no way to move it). Using a Kubota L4300DT I purchased new (43HP; 37 PTO with R1s). Planting 3-5+ acres. And I have the time to go slowly. I would consider the Tar River, but there doesn't seem to be much of a dealer network at all. Would like to stay under $4K, so that leaves out all the more popular names. Any other ideas I'm missing?
A company called LMC carries the exact same drill as the Tar River Saya under the LMC BRAND Just a different color. I bought one a few months ago from A SUNSOUTH john Deere dealer for $7000. Used it so far on about 15 acres and have been delighted. It is lighter and lighter duty than the models costing twice as much but did a great job in planting my fields through a variety of stubble and weeds after spraying roundup. It weighs 1400 pounds empty and i added 300 pounds on the weight trays. No problem on a variety of soils although i did have some moisture in the soil. I do not intend to till again
As you would expect, the LMC or Tar River is not nearly the machine that a Great Plains or Genesis no till drill is but for the 20 acre food plotter who takes care of his equipment i see it as a great way to enter the no till arena. In my opinion it saves time, helps with weed control, conserves moisture, and builds soil
As you would expect, the LMC or Tar River is not nearly the machine that a Great Plains or Genesis no till drill is but for the 20 acre food plotter who takes care of his equipment i see it as a great way to enter the no till arena. In my opinion it saves time, helps with weed control, conserves moisture, and builds soil
Check out the thread on allthingshabitat.com they have guys with all these drills
All of the above conversations are great but the cost of these fancy new machines is just too much. If you are mainly planting wheat and rye you can get by perfectly fine with an older model 16 or 20 row drill. They are sitting in the weeds all over wheat country and you can probably get one for little more than scrap price. Some may be rusted beyond repair but many will work just fine. Add $200 for new tires and a gallon of WD40 and some grease and you are good to go. A 16 row disc drill can be pulled very easily with a 40 HP tractor. They aren't no till but they worked for about a hundred years just fine.
I'm new to this type of equipment but don't need a no till. I plant soy beans, alfalfa, clover, peas, radish, etc. Have never planted corn but wouldn't mind trying a little at some point. My maximum amount of land I could turn into food plots is maybe 12 acres total. I've been planting 3 or so total in scattered micro plots the last few years.
I don't mind buying used, but am in no way a mechanic so no hope of getting something cheap and reconditioning it myself. Whatever I end up with has to work from day 1. I can do simple maintenance (oil changes, hydraulic fluid/filters and grease joints) but am not gifted with other more complex mechanical skills. Nice looking fields above. I've been using a Land Pride 3 point broadcast spreader and have been wasting a lot of seeds but getting good growth. I estimate it's worth investing now at my price point and expanding the land I plant more effectively.
Loprofile, I was considering the LMC or Tar River drills but there were not any dealers near me. It looks like it is working well for you.
JSW, You are right a no till drill is expensive and not necessary and there are definitely cheaper options such as an old grain drill as you suggested. When I assessed my situation I felt the no till drill would minimize the time it takes me to plant and give me the best opportunity for success. While the cost was high it is no more expensive than a base Polaris Ranger SXS and I bet 10years from now the drill will be worth a lot more than the SXS.
