Hopefully Corn Piles Become Illegal In K
Whitetail Deer
This popped up on my feed recently. Hopefully they outlaw this ridiculous practice that disrupts the natural movement of deer and contributes to CWD transmission.
It’s terrible. I think they should not allow farmers to put out salt licks for cattle or even water tanks where water is scarce. How else will we ever get rid of this horrific disease. Let’s see if we can mandate that deer get no closer than 6’, not eat from the same buffet. Next we need to outlaw cars, after all if it saves just one life it’s worth it. ;)
I wouldn’t mind seeing corn outlawed but CWD doesn’t even make the list of reasons why.
If they intend to outlaw corn because of CVD transmission, I sure hope they outlaw food plots, scents, scrape drippers, mineral blocks, watering system, etc. All of them can cause some concentration of deer and or transmission of fluids that could cause CWD, if it’s caused by corn pile.
If they would just shut the rut down for a couple of years, that would go a long ways towards getting this CWD thing under control, as well!
Thorton = GF west
or
Thorton = GF yourself west
Why would anyone care about the health of the herd, CWD, or any transferrable disease among cervids...as long as you don't have to actually hunt and you can still get yerself a big'ol buck over a failure pile yee-haw!
If all deer would just double mask, problem solved!!
"If they would just shut the rut down for a couple of years, that would go a long ways towards getting this CWD thing under control, as well!"
Good one T-roy! Flatten the curve!
If the weather patterns continue as they are and we have a hot dry summer EHD will be the bigger concern.
This is the driest spring I can remember in years. All of Lower Michigan, Southern Wisconsin and the majority of Iowa is already in a moderate drought. The Dakotas are already cooked and it isn't even summer yet.
I have an 8 inch outlet tile on my farm that connect to over 20000 feet of field tile, In a normal year it would have 2 to 3 inches of water coming out of it at this time. Right now it is dry.
I hope so too, Nebraska set a good example we should follow. And I’d add the struggling turkeys to the this of no bait animals
1. I would say the theory deer do not congregate outside of family groups is a false one.
2. Is it ok for family groups to congregate on a bait plot?
3. IMO....it's the same old false analysis between bait piles and bait plots. Bait piles are easy feel-good targets.
4. Does Kansas have a high deer per mile concentration? If so....thinning the herd would seem like the first thing to deal with.
buckhammer,
I fear you are correct sir, driest spring I've ever seen in NE IA.
I love it. Just one Rut to slow the spread
Illinois banded bait piles, feeders and mineral licks years ago to stop the spread of CWD. Course we also banded shooting hogs to stop their spread. Duh, makes prefect sense. Oh ya, walk into any Rural King or Walmart in the state and look at all the bags and blocks of deer attractant on the shelves.
Lol, same old song and dance. Guys who hunt over the totally unnatural concentration of deer at food plots can't stand the thought of a guy shooting a deer over bait. Hunt however you want, but don't waste my time with the b.s. nonsense that banning baiting is going to do a damn thing to prevent deer from spreading disease. I'd at least respect your stance if you just say I don't want other hunters using bait because I don't use bait.
Still waiting for someone to post evidence that chronic wasting disease has done any long term damage to any heard of big game animals on the planet.
The reality is, multiple small areas of broadcast bait actually spreads the herds out. Limiting food sources to private land food plots concentrates deer there. Ever wonder why private land QDM hunters are against baiting for all, which keeps the herd spread out over public lands? Anything one does to LIMIT food sources concentrates the deer. Expanding the available food sources will spread out the deer herd. A third grader could figure that one out.
Missouribreaks is spot on.
Last year I planted 30 acres of food plots in Ohio. Baiting is legal but I chose not to bait.
I was competing with every small parcel owner and their corn piles.
I killed nothing. Many of them did. Baiting works and that’s why they’re so popular.
I’m not against baiting and am unapologetic about that. However, if it’s banned I won’t lose any sleep over it. It will definitely result in less deer being killed. Food plots will definitely see an uptick in activity.
IMO there is no comparison between a bait site and a food plot.
^...X2
I think most reasonable and honest folks can look at the topic and see there is not much difference in the primary goal of hunting over a bait pile, a bait plot, a bunch of acorns under the oak trees or maybe a water tank/hole. I don't have any problem with that type of hunting over food sources. What I do not like.....IMO, is DNR's and F&G Depts basically picking winners and losers by banning baiting and allowing bait plots. Notably pitting public land folks against private land folks. It is dishonest to say one concentrates deer and the other does not and I think most honest folks can see that.
Gotta love the "arm-chair" biologists. Baiters have all the excuses lined up, and they run in packs...patting each other on the back for justifying their shortcomings.
Lol sitO. All hunters find ways to increase their chances of killing an animal. Bait, food plots, scents, decoys, funnels, etc.. I'm just honest enough with myself to admit it. And I've used all of the above methods at one time or another. Some hunters ego's are too fragile to handle that fact. Explain to me again how spreading some apples around to attract a deer is any different than planting and never harvesting food to attract a deer has a different outcome? A deer attracted to the ideal spot for a hunter to shoot it. Keep on trying to convince yourself you don't have any shortcomings when it comes to out smarting whitetails.
Oh I have plenty of shortcomings, but I don't cheat. If you can't see the difference between training an animal to come to a predetermined area I'm afraid I can't help you.
Wonder if they plan to ban licking branches over scrapes next? Talk about concentrating deer...they all work the EXACT same branch tip. SMH...
How many baiters keep their feeders full during Jan, Feb, and Mar?
Ha ha I'm pretty confident I have it figured out. Bait trains deer to a spot, food plots train deer to a spot , mock scrapes train deer to a spot, mock licking branches train deer to a spot, all achieve same goal of killing a deer. Ban all of these methods and wild deer will still transmit disease within the population. Pretty easy to understand
^^maybe implement a mask mandate for deer?
Moose I think you're getting closer. They can do without licking branches, scrapes, decoys, rattling horns, etc...but they can't do without sustenance. I don't think anyone would presume that they could prevent deer, or any cervid, from natural tendencies...but we can certainly eliminate artificial congregation. Folks just have to be willing to actually hunt.
Sito. Have you ever tried “training” deer. Sure if you want to kill deer corn is much easier. If you want to kill a certain deer that’s not necessarily so. Most bucks come into corn in the dark and if anything are “trained” to avoid corn in daylight.
Pat....I’m curious as to your reasoning for choosing not to bait in Ohio?
Just another excuse Link, I'd go out on a limb and predict that some of the larger bucks you've killed were over corn? Also that you had them on camera at said pile? Riddle me this...if it doesn't work on mature bucks then why do it?
Prediction: Next excuse will be "I only throw out a little corn here and there to keep the doe's around"
So I guess my question is , hunting over a strategically placed never harvested food plot is hunting, but throwing a few bags of apples out to kill a deer isn't? Unless we all go back to stalking deer with homemade wooden bow and arrows we all rely on modern day crutches. Some people just don't want others to use bait to kill a deer and claiming it will prevent cwd or any other disease in whitetail deer is a nice conveint reason to justify it.
From my small experiences hunting in midwest farm country you don’t have to train deer because they already are. Lots of open crop fields and few woods, usually where you can’t plant. The deer follow the fingers of woods right to the hunter. I guess if you want to “not cheat” you’d set up in a naked tripod in the middle of a field. ;-).
And yes I have feeders and I feed corn from September until the middle or end of March. I grow year ‘round food plots because I’m interested in feeding all the deer all the time. I feed many more deer than I ever kill. I don’t think that makes me a cheater, I think it just makes me not like you self-proclaimed ethical hunters. I have a license and I have five tags. I rarely fill more than two, how is that cheating ?
Illinois banded bait piles, feeders and mineral licks years ago to stop the spread of CWD. Course we also banded shooting hogs to stop their spread. Duh, makes prefect sense. Oh ya, walk into any Rural King or Walmart in the state and look at all the bags and blocks of deer attractant on the shelves.
The Pope & Young Clubs Official Position on “Eligibility for Entry” includes:
“ Complete compliance with the controlling state/province hunting regulations.”
Currently, 28 states do not allow baiting and 22 do allow baiting. State laws can change if State DNR’s decide to change. Every state has their own reasons for their fair chase rules. I have hunted Whitetails in 14 states and 2 Provinces and have enjoyed each one.
PS: Hunting a water hole or using a decoy now that’s a horrific crime. Deer/Antelope can find food in many places but can not live without water or reproduction.
Enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think....
I wonder where the Kansas parks and wildlife will make up for the revenue lost if that happens.
We'd just hunt the good old fashioned way we did before you came along Forest.
There is some inaccuracies in all statements, including the KDWPT. Bachelor groups will actually hang out in close proximity all summer, and often preen each other like monkeys. Eating out of the same trough like hogs though, that is literally swapping spit
Bait should be broadcast.
Great bait debate
Great bait debate
What lost revenue Forest? Older and bigger bucks are going to drive folks away? If you’re that addicted to sitting over a pile of corn I feel sorry for you. Hell of a lot more fun and fulfilling ways to hunt.
What the KDWP really needs to do is have Outfitters pay for a license, and also pay taxes, so then you'd be helping instead of hurting...novel idea huh.
I've always said that Kyle. Unless they actually own the property, they should also be given concessions like they do in Canada. This stops overlap of every redneck and his cousin guiding in the same area and evens out the numbers of deer killed in an area.
Rocky, in my opinion, this is not so much about biology as it is about other things. Some people don’t like baiting because if they don’t bait, and their neighbors do bait, they say it pulls the deer off their property to the baiters property. Some people think their methods of hunting are superior to baiting and shooting a deer over bait. And those that shoot deer over bait are immoral and inferior to “real hunters”. And baiting by outfitters increases their success rate for high paying non resident hunters. So the outfitters get paid more and their clients kill a lot of deer that other people think they should kill. I hunt my own land in west central Kansas, and I run feeders from Sept 1 till late in January. I hunt it 3-5 days during the rut. This property is 640 acres, and has a few dozen trees on it, the tallest being 8-10 feet. The nearest tree stand size tree is a few semi dead elms about one mile away. The property is flat and is CRP grass that’s inches to four feet tall. It’s surrounded on 2.5 sides by pastures with short grass. The other 1.5 side is either wheat or milo. There are no deer trails or any way to pattern deer. My trail cams show zero deer over about 125”, but a few does and basket rack bucks. The density of deer in this area is pretty low. I kill a buck or sometimes a doe most years with my bow. If I don’t, I’ll go during rifle season and kill one with my 257 weatherby. If I didn’t bait this property, the success rate for bow hunting would be close to zero. That’s why I’m an advocate for baiting.
As a point of clarification Forest currently owns a beautiful farm house and 300 acres in Kansas which he pays taxes to own. Additionally, he pays Kansas Ranchers/Farmers around 30k each year for his archery deer leases. He also spends about 10k per year at local businesses. I’d say he’s invested in Kansas.
Kansas People around there actually like him. I know that because I’m there each year and see the folks in town and at the local church we attend.
Even though he barely breaks even In return for that investment he hosts about 12-14 hunters each year at the Hunt Club. He has exclusive archery leases to around 5,000 acres. The Non-Resident draw application period is over for this year but if anyone out there would like to join us we have a blast, occasionally shoot some great Bucks and really enjoy Kansas and it’s people.
As I stated above Kansas is one of 22 states where it’s legal. Change the Kansas law if you think that will make things better.
My point is that to outfit in KS you should have to have a license and pay taxes on that business, it's no fault of anyone's but the state that this isn't taking place.
I take several folks hunting each year, on family owned ground, folks that have nowhere else to hunt...no charge...not outfitting.
The biggest difference is that we actually hunt. The state has it's own prerogative, if they wish to eliminate baiting they will...and then all will get to hunt.
Dale, do the deer not come through the property to access your standing corn, or pond, or neighbors crops? Seems like there'd be an opportunity to ambush from the ground or a cedar patch/row if no tall trees are available?
sitO, your question is logical but I have not seen that to be the case, and I’ve owned and hunted it for 12 years. I do bowhunt deer here in Mn where baiting is not legal. I hunt farm land (corn and beans) surrounded by mature forests. I have pretty good success finding trails, inside corners and funnels where deer travel. It’s night and day compared to my Ks land.
I agree Kansas outfitters should be licensed and pay taxes.
They used to be licensed, the outfitters and leesors did not like it so it's gone.
I agree with Rocky D. To much infighting! Opinions are great but, I were no respect for others. To bad! Greg
I never understood how a business could be immune to the same taxation and regulations as any other business. Makes no sense to me to allow free reign for some but not others.
Are you saying outfitters are not taxed on their profits? Please explain.
Rocky and GLP, I understand your concern. I'm not buying the "infighting is ruining hunting" argument, or I should say I'm not concerned. There are plenty of hunters in my area, and though not as many as some years past nationwide, the "sport" is growing in areas. Baiting is not hunting, and it's ruining a heritage I care deeply about preserving. I realize that many may have differing opinions, I can only speak to what I see and experience myself.
"Baiting is not hunting, and it's ruining a heritage I care deeply about preserving.
That is your opinion and I can respect that. Calling hunters who bait "lazy", "don't know how to hunt" etc is immature and makes me tune you guys out. Many traditional guys say the same thing about you because you use a compound.
I don't care what you, or any of the other anti-baiting zealots think about baiting. I make no apologies for enjoying a variety of hunting techniques. I have bigger issues in life to focus on.
If Kansas bans it, no worries for me. Most hunters will be a little less successful but most will still go there every year. Me included. Baiting is illegal in Iowa and I killed a great buck. There are no shortage of non-resident bowhunters killing great bucks. My guess is many of them hunt Kansas too. Are they "lazy" hunters when they hunt Kansas and suddenly become "exceptional" hunters when they hunt Iowa?
This argument has been silly and tiring for 25 years.
I think broadcast baiting is a good way to keep the deer herd spread out, and to allow some to keep an interest in hunting. Hunters should have an option, especially public land hunters who cannot plant food plots (like I do on my private lands).
Pat, there are bigger issues in all of our lives no doubt. Calling names is immature...I'd agree...like "anti-baiting zealots". We can both be passionate about our beliefs, maybe we don't always make the right decisions when espousing?
I know many traditional archers who also sit over bait, it's mindboggling to me. I guess I just think about the first time I picked up a bow, and the challenge I knew awaited me. The skills and knowledge it takes to learn the habits of my quarry, and to "outsmart" that animal. Baiting negates all of that, it conditions these animals most of us respect, it trains them to come to a predetermined spot on a map. Not to mention the original direction of this thread, that it could lead to the possible demise of these herds...why even take that chance? I believe the biologist's have a better grasp of the long term effects than you or I.
It's not hunting, and in my opinion fighting against it isn't silly either.
Sito you might not realize it yet because they haven't focused on Kansas yet. But make no mistake with guys like you worried about baiting the anti's are coming for all of us. Seems like every day I read about something they want to ban. Trapping in various states, California banned selling any sort of fur by 2023, hunting with dogs is attacked somewhere every year. Keep worrying about your fellow hunter throwing a few apples out while they systematically work to elimate all hunting. And to the point of this thread, I have yet to see any scientific evidence that baiting spreads wildlife disease one second faster than without baiting.
Sito I won’t make excuses and I don’t throw just a little corn out. I corn from sept 15 to February most winters. Most of the places I hunt have little to no trees and little to no deer. Corning those places makes them huntable. When I tell friends where I shot a deer they can’t believe I pull good deer out of those spots. Would be next to impossible without corn. In northwest OK there are literally corn feeders on every 160 acres. In this open country 160 acres probably feels about like 30 acres of what you hunt. If you don’t have corn out, the deer are at the neighbors corn. Sometimes that means a buck is hitting 10-20 corn piles in a 16 square mile area. Sure they come in to eat corn, just as they come in to eat beans or wheat or clover in farm country. Just when you think you have them figured out the neighbor kills them on his corn. Mature bucks will literally stage up in an area 100-200 yards away waiting for dark to come into corn. Once you’ve been picked off over corn they know where you stand is. I’m not saying it’s tougher than hunting public land in NJ but to suggest the deer are “trained” is at the least a little obtuse. This is what the terrain looks like in most of my hunting spots. You could walk straight and not hit a tree for 3 miles. If you missed that small tree belt it would be another 5 miles until you hit a tree on the river. Without the “kill plot” and “failure pile” patterning a deer and getting inside of 50 yards on the ground would be pretty tough. This little kill plot is about 70 yards to the other side and 130 yards long. In hunting it 3 years it has produced a 140” ten for me and my brother wounded a 170 in 11 with a drop. Those deer were each shot the one and only times they showed in daylight. In three years the mature deer sightings in daylight by my eyes and cameras have been about 2 a season. But these bucks are on camera nightly. The drop that was wounded was killed a month later by a rifle hunter over corn. I wish I had “trained” him better.
… better outlaw scrapes & licking branches as well.
What good comes from baiting? Lots of perceived negatives from folks against baiting. Could someone who baits or is pro-baiting explain what reasons there would be for it to remain legal?
Rocky and Moose, I also fight for what I believe. Have been to many a KDWP meeting, sent emails, and made calls to our biologists and legislators not just on the baiting issue. This particular practice needs to be banned...and if that happens it will be for the betterment of all hunters. I'm not worried about anti-hunters opinions in the least, but those who don't know much about hunting, and aren't dead set against it, most likely don't see baiting as a "sporting" practice. I've asked several myself, and none consider the practice of baiting as hunting.
They aren't just "throwing out a few apples" down here, there are piles you can see from space, and just like in Links' comments they are everywhere. They all say "I have to bait to keep animals from going to the neighbors corn pile"...it's a vicious circle. As for the original topic, If you can't see the association with baiting and disease you need to read more.
You guys get to choose your own path, as do I. I hunt for the challenge, and the thrill of pursuit. We may not agree, we probably won't change each others minds, but I think we all know what's right and what's wrong.
If we’re worried about not ruining hunting why don’t we ban baiting and give young bowhunters who can’t afford the best leases and biggest piles a better experience in the woods. If I was an aspiring Kansas bowhunter today, as I was 20 some years ago, I don’t think I’d bother. Populations are down, some of my better family ground sold to a fellow from North Carolina, it’s almost impossible to find permission without connections, the biggest and best feeders hold the does through the rut, and the list goes on. Talk about ruining hunting. A bunch of fellows from other states think it’s their right to sit over a big pile of bait in order to acquire some large antlers while detracting from their neighbor’s experience. But espousing how it’s a lame practice on an internet forum is putting us all in danger?
Link, the area you hunt sounds similar to where I hunt in west central Ks. No trees, low deer density, and near zero chance of a bow shot at one unless you use a food plot or bait. Good luck on your hunts on Oklahoma.
I am not a baiter all though my in laws property in OK sometimes have corn on it if my nephew put some out. I’d be fine if it was not legal but don’t carry one way or another.
With that said I don’t buy the in fighting between hunters is all bad. Or a better way to say it is I believe we need to do a better job of policing our selves. I think the fight over crossbows in archery season is worth fighting to keep them out at least were they currently not allowed. I think e-bikes are not the same as a bicycle and should be allowed were motorcycle are allowed but not were you are not allowed to take a motorized vehicle. Over all I believe we should and need to take a hard look at all tech before just allowing it into hunting. Especially when taking about season such as archery which has traditionally been more primitive.
These issues sometime put hunters on opposite sides but that is ok and better than just saying everything is ok to be allowed.
I shouldn't be made illegal because it butt hurts someone only if science proves it can harm wildlife. It sure as heck can't harm the deer herds as much as going in and killing every deer in a county so they don't die from CWD. Makes alot of sense?
Cherney12, does spreading corn and protein pellets in the late spring into early summer help the does that are carrying fawns(decrease mortality) or help the bucks with early antler growth? Asking for a friend because I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any statistics to back this up other than pictures which we all know can be photoshopped and taken from anywhere then we say on our property.
What about use to assist in managing the overall size of the deer herd that visit your hunting property? Corn feeders definitely bring in the does so could it be a tool for assessing the deer quantity to keep numbers in check with what the surrounding habitat can support?
All of this said, there's really no "valid reason" for us to plant food plots nor have feeders - deer and other wildlife have survived just fine without it over hundreds of years. But, that opinion will get you strung up by the "it's legal" police after you get strung up by the "elitist bowhunter" police for talking about your compound shooting great out past 60 yards.
No more corn fields in the mid west would fix the problem
I don't bait, but, have no issue with it - wherever legal. Corn is not what is ruining hunting. Population explosion w more people and less green space along with technology that makes hunting easier (crossbows for ex) and of course TV. Everybody is a bowhunter now. And the TV guys are always hunting "with their good friend" as long as you have money or influence we can be friends. "Friend" has them patterned on his camera - hunter rolls in and shoots him - pitches his business then off to hunt with their another good "friend" and lead you to believe you too will have a great hunt - if only you were a tv star or lots of money then you would. Hunting is a not so pretty business. Seasons are so long guys can hunt many states vs 1 or 2. Residents don't want you coming to their state, but, want you to welcome them as a NR when in your state. No hot spots/secrets - can find them on internet maps and or phone. Less supply vs the demand causes higher prices and crowding and not as good an experience as what was available in the past - whoever has the most money wins. Baiting with Corn is far down on the list IMO. Thanks.
KB: On your trophy photos page your 2019 buck is pictured in a picked corn field and your 2018 buck was shot in a standing Milo field. I don’t consider that as wrong. You get to hunt some fine farm land with lots of food. Great bucks.
Ok....Russ, I don't care if they ban food plots if that's what it takes to get rid of baiting. Don't think many guys that hunt care about out of staters that come in and actually hunt. Kind of frustrating that so many come in, pay $5,000 to sit by a feeder that someone else places and fills in a stand that someone else hangs so they can get a nice trophy to take home. It's legal, I get it, and a lot of good comes from it for those folks, I'm sure. I just think it's been detrimental to deer hunting here and if continued I don't think it's sustainable. I know a lot of residents make a living off the practice, and or supplement their income. I think the good ones could keep getting guys to come in and hunt without bait if they are willing to put work in.
I have thought and thought, but I’m damned if I can see how a deer eating corn is ruining hunting. Hunters have been slinging corn here for fifty years or more and we kill more deer than just about any other state that I’m aware of, and it just keeps getting better. If that’s ruining hunting, gimme some !
^^^ If you had a corn pile around here you'd likely have a grizzly on it before too long. No thanks!
So Rocky if baiting is legal you believe in it?? If it's legal, then it's a legal hunting method?
Gets complicated doesn't it??
How does feeding deer corn, have anything to do with CWD? not buying it.......
this right here is what ruins hunting is that people think what they do is so much better or they are so much better than what someone else does, if you use a stick bow your a better hunter, but not as good as the guy that made it himself and his own arrows, he's better than you! Or if you use fixed blades your better, get off your horse and leave people alone, do what you like and want, no need to think your god over it by putting people down for what they do, you know that just makes you a real Dface or Dbag or Dhead. The death of hunting or sitting in the woods over a food source will come from with in, the antis don't need to do anything, we do it to ourselves with god complexs that we are soooooo much better then the next guy, your not your better at being a DHEAD and looking like one. Have a wonderful day! PS I use trail cameras, maybe I'm lazy, but what if i made them myself, HMMMMM:)
Lance, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you didn't choose your own "handle"?
Charlie, I’ve been pretty lucky indeed. I have family and friends that farm and ranch all across the state. Both of those bucks came out of very similar country to what Link and Dale are talking about. Not far from Dale at all actually. The one you say is in a corn field was killed in a large CRP draw. I’ve killed a handful others in that area and been part of quite a few more. None were over a corn pile and quite a few were even on public ground. The guys who think corn is the only option in that country are missing out big time. You’re right, those deer probably wouldn’t be there without production ag. Certainly not in very significant numbers. However a 400 acre standing milo field or 80 acre patch of CRP and kochia jungle are a far cry from a 100 pound corn pile.
Numbers are down significantly in portions of the state from what I grew up with. In some areas it’s quite easy to hold a large percentage of the nearby herd with bait. I think the quality of the hunt would increase for everyone if corn was banned. Corn guys don’t realize it but they’d probably observe new bucks they’re not even aware of and more natural interactions. I hunt nomadically, rarely tied to a property or buck. The unknown is a big part of the intrigue for me. That doesn’t mean I think it’s the only way or better than the next. But Forest and the rest of the crew would still have a killer camp with or without corn piles. That’s not what it’s about at all.
Sito, If you "go out on a limb" that means your in a tree, which to some isn't hunting if your not doing it from the ground in a plad shirt, cause wearing any type of camp is cheating and the frontiersman never did it. So be careful so the real hunters don't go to there legislatures to ban u from being in a tree on a limb, that is unethical and such, and you have a unique name as well, "Adams" never heard that before, pretty awesome, wish I had just one name!
Interesting. I'd guess for the most part we go out to kill a deer, thus it's called deer hunting, etc. Then.... we must put layers and levels of difficulty applied to it. Then it "means" something more special. My level is good. Yours is bad because, well, it's too easy, you didn't "earn" it. You know, like I did. Didn't invoke the right mantras at the alter. Those making it harder make sure everyone knows how they do it is harder.... therefore better, right? huh. Virtue Signaling isn't just for.... ah, never mind. Off topic. But only slightly.
Sorry. I quit worrying and obsessing how someone else put game in their freezer a long time ago. My Give A Chit is still waiting on parts I guess. IMO game management is a numbers thing and if take needs to be regulated that's why there are tags allotted somehow and seasons. What you take and how you take it I really don't care, we all have different goals, reasons why we hunt. PERSONAL reasons that don't need anyone's validation or stamp of approval. Use a snare over bait for all I care, that's up to you. Only thing I'd care is how you cooked it if I came to dinner.....
Just go out and kill something as you see fit and hopefully don't go to jail because of someone's arbitrary rules they justified to themselves and anyone else that will listen. That act of hunting alone puts you in good company, nice DIY protein to feed people and a connection of sorts to a genetic human history and survival. If not then I guess leave the killin' stuff in the closet at home and go commune with nature. Lots of folks out there will do most anything to not have to deal with dead animals.... for their own PERSONAL reasons of course, as it should be.....
Rocky, I do love a good cigar.......
WRT CWD.... I'm not really up on it..... does it exist in states where baiting is illegal? How would that be? Or is this classroom theory kind of like covid with reality showing not much difference all said and done between states with draconian lock downs and those far more open? Bidin calling for double masks while many states masks few and far between and doing fine? Reality not respecting the lab experiments and "scientists" predictions? More "compliance" driven than reality driven?
Inquiring minds and all..... =D
Nose Jammer and Corn should be illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lots of people say guns should be illegal too? What about killing hogs? The scope on your gun, how about no sight on your bow, only rages are legal cause Dbag magoo says so. Its funny to me how many people want to make hunting illegal that think every animal is a person with feelings and friends and stuff and its even more funny to me how many hunters think parts of hunting should be illegal, its a slippery slope. There are more deer now then there ever has been look it up don't take my word for it, just like people.
Lance....Maryland has a ton of deer. You live in the same county I did when I was stationed in DC. In fact...one of your deer pics looks like it was taken at Brandywine (B2).
In dry country, water is the ultimate bait. Most guys wouldn't let that stop them. If a farmer accidentally spills a pile of grain, would you consider that as baiting...if you hunted near it? Is this all about situational or conditional ethics? Baiting turkeys is socially on par with child molestation, while baiting bears is generally agreed to be necessary in many areas. You can run a cat up a tree with hounds and kill him at your leisure after plenty of perfect selfies. If someone could do that with a 6x6 elk would we congratulate them for a great hunt? My point is simply that we don't and won't ever agree (as a group) on what is acceptable and what isn't....including baiting in Kansas. Or any state.
I don't bait deer. I won't hunt baited deer. But I don't belittle those who do. Would I make it illegal in Ohio? Probably not...there are so many deer here that it matters not to the overall herd population. It's more of a social thing...how guys choose to go about hunting. The property next to ours is leased to some NJ guys. They bait the absolute living hell out of that place...you'd think they're addicted to baiting and know little other ways of hunting. Which maybe brings me to a point I sometimes consider....
Reliance on artificially baiting deer: Is this a pathway that leads some hunters away from greater dedication to woodsmanship and those hard-to-develop skills necessary for success without artificially manipulating or conditioning deer?
Sorry, I have to chime in here. The worst thing that happened in Wisconsin to hunting deer and having actual real deer movement is baiting. Pat and others say we have other things to fight? Yes we do, but as far as when you are hunting, it is a problem. I hunt all over the North half of the state and mainly large forest area's. I have witnessed the progression of it and the decrease of deer activity to where it is basically 0 movement during high baiting times. We have early bow (now basically gun, different story), 9 day rifle and then Muzzle Loader and back to late bow. I can go and hunt the national forest area during all seasons and see deer except for 1, the rifle season and late early bow. Why, all the F'n bait piles scattered around. They just do not want or need to move. I can go hunt every day of the rifle season and not see a single deer. But, go right back to the same area a week after the rifle closes and see a lot of deer just moving normal. Again, I watched it from the beginning. Now some hunt, and some bait. The baiting screws hunting up for both.
^....Wisconsin has similar seasons as Michigan. Michigan banned bait piles but still permits bait plots on private land....that is supposed to help with CWD containment! I can't speak for all of Michigan but where I'm at in Northern Michigan...the deer run a similar pattern and that is with/without bait piles. They vanish or go nocturnal as folks start walking thru the woods scouting, small game hunting, bear hunting or the gun shooting starts. That happens every year and is predictable. I have a suspicion the bait pile ban is also causing problems with the deer herd based on what the DNR is now doing. The DNR is trying to thin out the growing antlerless population by changing the regs a few of years ago to allow does to be shot with the buck tag in all seasons. It started with archery only and now expanded to all weapons. The DNR is already allowing folks to buy antlerless tags this year. Since I have been here...I never seen that before this early. Again....that is in my area in northern MI. The antlerless harvest is how the DNR controls the herd population. We've also had some mild winters so I think that hurts...or helps depending on how you view it. I think we will eventually see bait piles come back to get the herd population back in check.
JL, I used to hunt B2 which is a prime example. MD is baiting heaven and the B2 place baiting is not allowed and giants are killed out of there every year, they do not leave cause of baiting, maybe late at night but for the most part that is the perfect experiment. I used to hunt there, not anymore. I hunt a lot of public now mostly. I could go back there but its a hike now from where I live.
Never had issues seeing deer before baiting, just after. Just a coincidence?
idk man... could shoot squirrels off the bird feeder all day... doesn't really seem like squirrel hunting to me.
Cherney12. Trust me it’s hunting. You could also verify that with tour local game warden :)
Sometimes I wonder if hunter arguments are such a bad thing when the issue debated involves ethics. If we all agreed on practices that made us more effective as hunters; yet in the process exacerbate an already negative public perception, then instead of standing together; we probably will just fall together....
Sounds like a couple of you fellas are really jealous of out of staters killing big deer over corn. I’d guess if you could kill big deer too you wouldn’t be so worried about what others are doing.
Rocky.....I'm speculating based on what I see and read. I have the 2019 MI DNR Hunter Survey results that were put out last year in 2020. In the broader picture, I can't draw a conclusion about the whole state because I only hunt locally as I alluded to....NWLP to be exact. However we can infer what maybe taking place based on the regulatory actions of the DNR and what the survey says. If the herd numbers were in bad shape....the DNR would not allow more doe harvest opportunities. The DNR is allowing more doe harvest opportunities. The logical inference is the herd is growing and/or hunter numbers are declining (both are true). Last year was unique in that we had more license sales due to the virus keeping folks in-state. That herd's up - hunter's down profile is why I'll speculate some type of baiting will be coming back in the future to help manage herd numbers. Plus I'll also speculate the DNR wants to get some of the hunter satisfaction numbers higher. Of interest and for another thread....we've had MAPR's in place for the last 8 or 9 years and since the question was first asked in 2016, hunter satisfaction with horn size is only 28%. That isn't a ringing endorsement for MAPR's.
A lot of public/private folks hunted over bait piles here. The chances to see and possible harvest something is higher. If it wasn't....a lot of folks are wasting their money on corn and beets. So....if the DNR removed bait piles, the harvest opportunity (and actual) tends to decrease....especially on public land. That would be counter to DNR herd mgt goals. That is the correlation between baiting and herd numbers.
I attached a couple of pages from the MI DNR Hunter Survey report to chew on.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2019DeerHarvestSurveyReport_693443_7.pdf
There’s a few anti baiters on this thread that have hunted bears over bait, some multiple times.
There's a name for that...
Lance.....all the property around B2 is private and those folks can go in their woods year around to do whatever. B2 is archery only and tightly controlled. Unless it changed....there was not year around access to go scouting and such. It was a great sanctuary for the deer. I have a 12pt on my wall from there.
Is it Master Baiters? There definitely seems to be some around here!!!
Live2hunt has a point about northern wisconsin. Very little ag land up there so a bait pile does a lot more congregating compared to a corn pile in the middle of ag land in Kansas. I hunt public land in Kansas so I can't bait anyway but I'm pretty sure that if I had a buddy throw down 100 lbs of corn the week before I get there that my success rate would improve. I'm not saying I'm anti-baiting but I know how effective it can be in the hardwoods because I shot most of my deer of off corn when I was a kid. Full transparency.......I do hunt 50% land containing food plots ( not necessarily over a food plot) and 50% public hardwoods without ag for over a mile.
Its not corn that's the issue, its how its placed. just spread it around so the deer don't congregate.
Touched on above, probably the biggest concern with baiting, as we are also now witnessing with “trophy” hunting, is the general public’s perception. I don’t want to see any more government regulation, however, I do hunt bears over bait and perform habitat management including food plots which attract deer like broadcasted or piled corn or other foods do.
Been hunting since ‘82, and I think the biggest change I have witnessed is that hunters no longer have free range. Back when we did no one really thought of putting bait out, we practiced those skills Kyle can still employ because he has access to lots of acreage over numerous family and friends’ properties. I guess the popularity of hunting is a lot of the culprit here. And if hunter’s remain on small properties they will be tempted to bait. I get it, don’t like it but don’t see it changing.
One idea I had is if a property owner receives CRP or other conservation incentives they would be required to host at least 1-2 youth hunts per year?
"We have met the enemy and he is ourselves"
CRP recipients being required to host some youth hunters? But you don’t want any more government regulations? That might cause some people to avoid putting smaller pieces of land in CRP, not good for wildlife and hunters.
Dale,
I agree with you and know it seems counter to my beliefs, except we would enter into it voluntarily. I have come to accept the view that public land hunters have it much tougher than those of us blest to own a parcel we hunt exclusively. And though our habitat projects benefit adjacent properties, mostly it makes the hunting much better on our own. Given the wildlife benefits all of us, this is just an idea I thought might level the hunting field a little, so to speak.
JL, I hunted it back in 2008-2014 and I knew some of the people that owned property butted up it and they were some heavy baiters. I hunted there all season and the only quieter time was when the accorns fell mid october. There are some big deer out there for sure man. Some power hungry people came in charge of managing it and became D's and tried to make it exclusive to his buddies and push guys out, it became a politics show.
Lance....you and I crossed paths before and likely worked together on the work details. I was there from 2006 - 2010.
Dale, c'mon...you've got all kinds of money and property, certainly wouldn't hurt to take a few kids hunting?
Link, I couldn't even look up at a buck on the wall taken over a corn-pile. I often laugh when I think of the lies baiters must tell when asked about their "kills".
SitO you have looked at lots of deer mounts taken over bait
Most stories where I come from would be something like "big buck moved in to some does at the Feeder and I busted his ass" " see you at Pope and Young awards banquet"
The world is an absolutely wonderful place, if you just let it be.
With a tear in my eye Robert
We have a 3 week baiting season up here. It allows one week of bows, one week of muzzleloader, and one week of rifle. Once the guns begin booming, the deer become scarce with bucks being totally nocturnal. Waste of time. I go deep and wait for snow so I can track and pattern them. The same with bear. The big boys are very leery of a bait site. Find the beechnuts, still hunt, and you will find bear. Many times up in a tree shaking the nuts down. When a bear is into the beechnuts, and the wind is right, you can get really close, and I mean close. I carry a predator call and have had two big ones come in. Really exciting on the ground with only a longbow. I didn’t shoot them, just wanted to see what they would do. One got a little aggressive, popping his teeth, but finally walked off.
SitO, actually I do allow two nephews, and a military man and his two young sons to hunt my property. But the government doesn’t need to mandate me to do that. Both of the young kids of the military guy killed their first deer there, with rifles. They’re not bow hunters. They did shoot (not hunt) them over bait, so they don’t count in some people’s eyes. But I can assure you that both of them were quite happy and proud of the deer they killed. I didn’t have the heart to tell them that they’re not supposed to feel good about killing deer over bait. They also hunt doves with me on that land.
Sito I’m guessing you don’t look at any mounts on the wall and that’s why you are so disgruntled. The only buck I have mounted is my first bow buck I shot. He didn’t come to a corn pile but that was 25 years ago before everyone leased their ground and I could hunt good properties with trees on the river. For the last 20 years my horns have gone into a pile in the back of my barn. There’s a few 170s in there. If people ask about them I have no problem showing them the one shot over corn.
Is that why you throw them in a pile? Cuz they came from over a pile?
Good on you for letting others use the land Dale, they'd have been just as excited...probably moreso...if they'd have hunted them. Corey I have a couple ;?)
I find it humorous to read how real hunters decide what is real hunting and what isn’t. It’s really mind boggling.
I have zero problems with hunting over bait. I just can’t make it work very well. I know in these parts it hurts your chances more then it helps on mature deer. Many times the first and only picture of mature deer cone the first night or two over apples or broadcasted bait. Then, I never get another pic of them. Ever.
Kill a deer over that bait and the others go nocturnal. Got the pics to prove that too.
I’m sure it works in other areas as attested to. But, that’s been my experience here. So, I don’t do it. These deer already have everything in their favor. It’s hard to see them. Much less kill them. But, the last thing I need or want is making them more weary.
The issue I have is guys saying "it is no different than hunting a food plot or fruit trees"!! Come on, how can you be serious?? Baiting is just that, bringing deer into an exact location and killing them, hard to be exact on 150 acres of beans. Its totally different, sorry but I 100 percent agree that all baiting for whitetails should be outlawed. Shawn
Shawn, what size food plot do you find acceptable, (non baiting) 1/4 acre, one acre, 10 acres, 50 acres? If you don’t think small food plots don’t attract and position deer for a kill shot, well, you need to get out more often.
The biggest problem I have with baiting deer is in order for me to hunt those deer congregated around or keyed into those bait sights I have to sit with or by the person that put them out. That and, most I know tell me about how many and the nice bucks they have come in every "night". MATURE DEER WILL NOT MOVE DURING DAYLIGHT HUNTING HOURS TO THESE CORN PILES NORE DO THEY MOVE ANYWHERE TILL DARK WITH BAIT PILES ALL OVER THE PLACE!!! Not rocket science!!
Years ago when I lived in Kansas, I was at the grocery store a few days prior to the rifle season opening. I ran into a guy that I had met briefly through a buddy and I asked him if he was excited for deer season. He said he couldn't go hunting this year cause corn was too expensive!
Pretty sad Nick, but that's some of the mentality level here in "lil'Texas". We now have actual corn vending machines...for the serious outdoorsmen.
Honestly, what amazes me here in Ohio: The stereotype has become the reality. Nonresident or out-of-county hunters show up here en-mass during the early rut and on into gun season. Invariably they are trailering an atv and bags of corn or other deer bait. My local feed store tells me that deer feed/bait (I affectionately refer to it as deer chum) is a very big part of their yearly gross sales. They have pallets full of bagged chum, mineral blocks, and about anything you can think of. It’s become a common belief that hunting here as a nonresident without using bait is seriously handicapping yourself.
It's become common belief that hunting in Kansas as a resident without using bait is seriously handicapping yourself.
Kevin, that’s true for both residents and nonresidents. Every local in my area Baits. I was the only one who didn’t and I never killed a deer.
And I agree with the comments that there is no similarity between food plots and a bait pile. Not even a little. Been planting plots for 10 years in NY and shot only one buck near a plot.
Pat.....sorry...but you're planting a food source or placing a food source and hunting over or around it with the primary end goal of hopefully seeing something to shoot. IMO....that's very similar.
I like handicapping myself, the end result feels much better. I’m still using tree stands, modern bows and aerial photos. I occasionally wear my loin cloth and hunt with my atlatl too.
Hunting a food source is nothing like hunting a feeder. We were targeting an old 6 point that has been beating up bigger bucks for 3 years now. Dozens of sits, and one good opportunity to kill him with a bow, but I'd hoped my friend would get a better chance. He came out on odd evenings, always in a different spot. Earlier in the season a neighbor and family shot 2 much bigger bucks near a feeder a mile away. Those bucks had also visited my place but were extremely transient and difficult to pattern. Deer are like people and will often develop preferences for certain feed. If you have a plot and not seeing bucks on it, try something else. Small food plots are usually picked over and have minimal regular use before season even starts from my experience unless you hot wire it until season starts.
I’m shaking my head at the blindness in this thread. You guys who don’t want corn don’t have to use it. If you don’t want to grow a food plot, by all means do not. Don’t hunt over water, don’t hunt on a trail, a scrape, a rub line. Hell, get out in the hiway median if you “like a challenge”. Me, I hunt deer to get some delicious meat for myself and the old woman to partake of and the relaxation that hunting provides. And for the record, the last several deer I’ve killed, bucks and does, were killed in my food plots. When all you have around you are pine trees and behia grass fields it’s a no-brainer.
Well, at least I now know that ag crops and food plots don’t attract or hold deer. Somebody should give the QDM guys and plotters a heads up. They’re wasting millions every year.
Dry creek you don’t understand! The guy that’s sits 1 of three trails entering the timbered edge of a 50 acre field of beans, corn, milo that someone else planted is a far superior hunter than you. Just get over yourself. ;)
I guess everyone has an opinion....wouldn't be America if we didn't. Still, the mere idea of baiting seems wrong on so many levels. It's self serving. In search of glory and pursuit for our own 'unfair advantage' stops us at nothing.
Rick be careful with that loin cloth. During the great freeze of 2021 a lot of bulls had their boys froze off. I prefer to keep mine close to my body and insulated. ;)
JMO, there are several major management concerns with Bait.
#1 - Artificially high concentrations of animals, which poses an epidemiological threat to a Public Resource.
#2 - Net result is the Privatization of a Public Resource as the animals are concentrated where they are out of reach to Public hunters.
#3 - It occurs primarily during the season(s) which have been constructed as tools for the management of said resource, thereby obstructing Public Management.
#4 - Post-season, many of those animals which received private sanctuary during the season return to public lands which then suffer under a herd density which exceeds carrying capacity, thereby damaging the Public Resource which is the landscape itself, which imposes a societal cost on All, whether they hunt or not.
But opposition to policies which benefit a few of the wealthier folks at the expense of everyone else is just pure Communist thinking, dontchaknow.
Nobody seems to be at all opposed to the North American Model being systematically dismantled .... as long as they’re getting what works for them.
So baiters are communists?
Nephew: "Hey Uncle, seeing any deer on the fields?"
Uncle: "Yup. Couple nice bucks coming regular outa the northeast corner onto the beans. Bigg'n using the old rock fence line every morning to head home from the milo."
Nephew: "How about that plot you put in for me?"
Uncle: "Lot's of does, bucks will be there in the rut."
Nephew hangs a stand and kills one of the bucks.
SitO: "Nice to see real hunters getting it done the hard way."
PS: I find it ironic that the add at the top of this thread is DeerBuilder.com and a pic of a food plot. hmmm?
I don't consider a bait pile to be fair chase for deer. I do for bear. Do you care? You shouldn't.
One thing in support of food plots is the aspect of nutritional improvement. I believe most plotters are willing to incur much greater expense for the overall improvement of the deer which access the plot. In many cases it's a comprehensive effort to make their property attractive to all wildlife, with improvements to water, browse, bedding and so on. It would be disingenuous to suggest they do this purely out of the goodness of their hearts, as in most cases the end goal is to kill more and/or better deer/game. And fairly so.
Baiting....in almost every case....has one main and immediate objective which is to attract a given species to a given location for the express purpose of an opportunity to kill. I'm sure there will be exceptions claimed, but I've yet to see or hear from anyone who selects bait for hunting season according to the best nutritional practices/needs and with a goal to make as many animals as healthy as possible. It's more about being irresistible ("just one more cake donut and then I promise to quit!") or specifically dependable in its presence.
For the record....I don't bait or food plot. I don't have any time or will to judge anyone else for what they do. Keep hunting.
Ambush…now that’s funny! And TRUE! I wasted a lot of time trying to contact sitO to work on this topic. Never would respond. Just come back with insults. As I’m sure he will do again and again.
"I'm sure there will be exceptions claimed, but I've yet to see or hear from anyone who selects bait for hunting season according to the best nutritional practices/needs and with a goal to make as many animals as healthy as possible. It's more about being irresistible ("just one more cake donut and then I promise to quit!") or specifically dependable in its presence."
I know many exceptions to this. Several of whom feed very expensive feed year round (combined with huge amounts of plots and timber improvement) and are just fine with not killing something every year. One thing I've noticed is the difference in forums. I'm member of several habitat forums and hunting forums. Sites like this one and AT tend to be majorly populated with hunters who's primary goal is a kill and they tend view everything as a means to get the kill. Habitat forums tend to be populated with people who's end goal is to be stewards to the land and animals. Yes, the majority of them are hunter but in general they don't treat the kill quite as significantly as the people on here do. Debates like this seldom happen on habitat forums as nobody there cares how someone else hunts or gets their kicks, but they will fight to the end about tree tubes or tillage vs no-till. I have been doing food plots for several decades and I do not hunt over them. I don't think I have a single hunt site within a quarter mile of my plots. I've found I'm a more productive hunter if I am nowhere close to feed, plots, piles, etc. My plots are there to enhance seasonal nutrition, provide for pollinators, and give quail some extra grain and cover early in the fall.
"I wasted a lot of time trying to contact sitO to work on this topic"
Would you like me to post your "friendly" messages to me Janetingalls? You're all talk no action.
Dale06 I get out plenty, kill plenty of deer. Actually more than most due to a unique situation I have in a bow only area and nuisance permits. Even a quarter acre food plot does not position a deer for a shot like a 3 ft circle of bait. Argue all you want it does not even come close!! I 110% agree with Kyle that shooting over bait is not the definition of hunting. Again If legal and guys do it, that is actually their business just don't pass it off as true hunting. I killed a bear on bait years ago as a kid, after that I would never do it again!! Why? Cause it sure as hell did not feel like I was hunting! Shawn
Y’all make me laugh, who really cares what someone does on there land? You can’t bait on public land in my neck of the woods. I have plots and feeders to help with nutrition. It seems the only people crying are public hunters. You do what you do and I’ll do what I do. I hunted public for decades and finally gave up do to over pressure and idiots. Saved my $$, now I pick and choose which deer, hogs and turkeys I want to take. And my children and grandchildren get to see a ton of animals. Don’t get mad at me for the way I choose to hunt
And I don’t throw giant piles of feed on the ground, that’s a waste of money, I’d be feeding hogs
When it comes to hoarding a public resource on your property people are going to care Swamp. This thread is about Kansas, not hogs or bears or overpopulated vast forested ecosystems. In Kansas corn can and does congregate herds on properties which can ruin the experience for neighbors. Those neighbors might be kids or beginners without the same resources and not capable of competing against big outfitters or landowners. If we’re talking a high fence or 10,000 acre ranch and someone feels corn is the only way they can get close to a deer, by all means, knock yourself out. But otherwise it does indeed affect far more than just you.
Easy way to keep everybody (un)happy.
NO hunting within 1/2 mile of ANY man made/placed food, crops, plots, minerals, or water tank/dugout. Completely level playing field.
And I've yet to have someone make a case for the ethics of baiting bears as opposed to deer. Both big game animals.
Scoot, maybe refresh my memory.
"Hording" ?????
LOL... I'm beginning to see a pattern here.....
Again, unless you are chasing them down and choking them out with your bare hands..... everything else is just degrees of difficulty. Personal degrees of difficulty. Some may call it "challenge". Whatever.
Then after that is semi-hashed out, we as hunters will get down to what is REALLY important. Personal (as in exclusive as humanly possible) access to the game source. As bowhunters carved out their exclusivity a few years ago, other factions of sharp stick hunters lobby to carve out theirs. Then debates (da-baits?) over methods of hunting, stalking, driving, calling, hounds, bait... I hear some folks even climb up trees. And always public land jostles with private land, etc. Over eons, few things in this world you can count on as well as Human Nature.
Ethics? A person justifies things they do as they feel they must..... but if there is some form of weapon in your hot (or cold in some areas...) lil' hands you're out there trying to kill something. It's not a religion. It's not even particularly special although man is slowly losing his sense of reality to some self-blind urban fantasy. It's personal. You can slice yours up any way you like, but at the gritty burnt bottom of it you're still just trying to kill something.
Or in some cases, at least look like you are....
oops. Edit: forgot the =D at the end..... ah say, i'sa joke son, a joke. heheheh.....
The State of Wisconsin did a study awhile ago on the impact of baiting on hunter success. I no longer have a copy so I am going from memory. The results showed that there was very little difference in hunter success rates if everyone baited and no one baited. Wide spread baiting localized deer movement to the area of the bait but significantly reduced all day time deer movement to the extent that harvest rates remained about the same. This applied to mature bucks as well. However if only one person baited in a large area baiting significantly increased their success rate. If most people baited those that did not were significantly less successful as a group. There are always exceptions to the averages where hunters who do not bait may be very successful due to above average hunting skills or advantageous hunting situations. It sure seems that if baiting is legal a lot of baiting will be taking place and a hunter is handicapped by not baiting. It seems to follow that baiting being legal or not determines the use of success hunting methods more so than success rates state wide. Those who do not want to bait are handicapped if it is legal and those would want to bait are rewarded. Where everyone has been baiting for years it is just as infrequent to kill a mature buck as in areas that have never been baited.
As KB said this is about the area of kansas. It is a region that has been hit hard with EHD and like Nebraska which banned baiting I think it would be wise of us here to do the same. No hogs in Kansas, no bears in Kansas, no nasty prickly pear thickets, no southern whitetial subspecies which seems to be little effected by EHD either. It’s Treelines, crop fields, and wood lots. There’s no real reason to have to bait unless you don’t have habitat on your property and your neighbors do. You can throw some corn out for a few weeks and have a chance at the deer who are supported on other habitat improvement. I think food plots would be a much better incentive that would allow for more year or season long food sources and help all wildlife in a bigger way. As a resident I’d be pretty happy if it was banned for whitetail and turkeys. I’m not going to brow beat people who do what is legal but not everything should be legal either imo
I worry so much about what other people do, sometimes I cry in my sleep.
Funny I hunt public land but actually have access to over 10 thousand acres of private and I would never bait on any private I hunt. I have actually hunted the some of the same private land I hunt for over 50 years and my bow only area since 1992 !! I would not even put out feeders to inventory deer, again it is not my idea of hunting! Shawn
Always funny to me how the baiters get so angry and confrontational. It's because they know they're cheating, and honestly they just need someone to pat them on the head and say "it's ok".
It's not a method of hunting, it's not hunting at all.
Yeah, Sito is just a troll. No deer picks, has half a name, and just talks trash. He's the smartest, most intelligent person on here, everyone listen to Sito or else he will hurt you with keyboard words or tell you that you don't hunt right, cause he's the super cool guy on bowsite. Its funny I talked about Dbags, Dheads, and he was the only one that responded to is specifically. Baiting him was easier than a deer. What a tool
Point proven, somebody pat the crazy man on his helmet
Scoot; Brotsky said nothing about why one is ethical and one isn’t.
How many anti deer baiters would head up to the Canadian north woods for bear hunting if the bears weren’t habituated to the baits and the baits weren’t freshened before they arrived? Not many, I bet. Six of us shot eight P&Y bears in four evenings, last week. No bait. Could have shot more.
I rarely hunt whitetail, so maybe that’s why I don’t get all the anger. But I do notice that the lines are drawn pretty evenly between those that have access to private property and those that don’t.
I think baiting bears is just as weak as baiting deer. What is there to get past? It's not hunting, it's luring them in with a pile of food and shooting them.
I used to pick up acorns and carry them into stand sites and spread them out when the area I was hunting didn’t have mast. Is that cheating?
Why would you do that Justin? I mean if you kill one there then another mature buck would never come there again, according to someone here who evidently has pictures to prove it.
Which one am I rocky? What is the truth?
They aren't "antelope" Rocky, they're Pronghorn
HDYLMK
I haven’t sat a waterhole and wouldn’t tree a mountain lion to shoot one unless it was a nuisance or threat to someone in which case i wouldn’t consider it a hunt. Sitting on a waterhole is too boring for an animal that can be hunted actively. Chasing a mountain lion or deer with dogs doesn’t seem like fair chase to me... not saying those things should be illegal, just doesn’t seem like hunting to me. So baiting has many negatives and few if any positives when talking about deer.
Since we are all getting our opinions out there. I view sitting a water hole in NM for elk, sitting water for pronghorn, hunting bears over popcorn and peanut butter mixed with dog food, the same as hunting corn and food plots less than 10 acres. Sure some might work to a better degree than others but all are sitting a small spot that congregates the animals where they can be shot. Some could be called “habitat improvement” but they all do the same thing to the animal.
I don't consider a bait pile to be fair chase for deer. I do for bear. Do you care? You shouldn't.
I don’t care at all but this made me laugh.
I doubt baiting will be illegal any time soon but one thing is certain and that is there will likely be a lot less baiting given the skyrocketing grain prices.
Sito "HDYLMK" what does that stand for? How do you like me know? Lol, maybe take an english class you clown, its now, not know. if your going to troll at least don't make your self look like you graduated 3rd grade.
Precious
Pat has a point...grain, metal, wood, etc is completely out of control...somethin's gotta give
Glad to know at least YOU graduated THIRD grade, sitO! ;-) HDYLMK!
Rocky D, In Ohio I do not think that there was a biological bases for a decision on baiting. When I first started hunting in Ohio I thought that baiting was illegal in Ohio. Years later I became friends with a group that I discovered did a lot of baiting. I questioned them about it and they said that it was not illegal and that I should check with ODNR. I called the ODNR and ask if baiting was illegal. The individual paused then responded that baiting was not legal. I inquired further and discovered what was meant was that baiting was not listed as a legal hunting method however it was not listed as being illegal and therefore hunters were not being cited for it. The ODNR clearly did not encourage baiting at that time.
Years later baiting in Ohio had become wide spread and I saw a paper from the State of Wisconsin indicating that wide spread baiting did not increase the deer harvest just changed the way that people hunted. The Wisconsin paper pointed out some of the negatives of baiting and was some what anti-baiting. Not baiting for deer myself and having no desire to I called the head of the ODNR whitetail program. He listened and acknowledged all of the points and then went on to make it clear that Ohio was now all about hunter opportunity. He said that some people did not have the skill, time, land or desire to hunt without bait and Ohio did not want to exclude them. I took that to mean that Ohio wants the license sales but he did not say that. The decision to start allowing baiting does not appear to have ever been made in Ohio. Ohio did not decide to stop it.
MDcrazyman, lighten up. It's a longtime joke on Bowsite, a deliberate malapropism from a former poster. But at least we know YOU graduated third grade... HDYLMK?
^^^ goes with tracking spiders and peeing into Gatorade bottles as you drive as quick as you drink them.
Rocky D, Thanks for sharing the link. The article is some what consistent with the Wisconsin paper I read years ago. Baiting provides very little advantage unless it is done under very controlled conditions. In fact when done on a wide spread bases it hurts success rates for everyone in the area. Plus it is expensive and a lot of work. With this type of information it would seem likely that states would be willing to make baiting illegal but they are not in Ohio.
Thanks Lou, ill get right on that!
“ You can’t bait on public land in my neck of the woods. I have plots and feeders to help with nutrition. It seems the only people crying are public hunters. You do what you do and I’ll do what I do. I hunted public for decades and finally gave up do to over pressure and idiots. ”
So would you agree that if you’re an “intelligent” person, the sensible options are to either A) buy your own land and manage it in ways that make public land hunting even LESS productive/satisfying than it already is, or B) quit hunting entirely.
Yet those of us who dislike baiting are told that we should give the practice a pass because we need to be as inclusive as possible so as to ensure that the important traditions of The Hunt are passed along to the next generation.
“ Baiting provides very little advantage unless it is done under very controlled conditions. In fact when done on a wide spread bases it hurts success rates for everyone in the area. Plus it is expensive and a lot of work. ”
Is it just me, or does that sound like the recruitment tool from hell?
Rocky D: negatives that are factual - increases the spread of disease, disrupts the natural travel and behavior of deer, negatively impacts the public opinion on hunting
Biologists largely agree on the other two. I mean you wanted facts.
Cherney12. No they don't
This subject only applies to what some of you that have no private land to hunt believe how baiting on private effects public
The rest of the opinions are just that, opinions not facts
Does not really matter. Debates like this will go on endlessly forever.
Biologists largely agree on the other two. I mean you wanted facts.
I have plenty of private land to hunt.... you folks are strange
GF, I never said I hunt over the feeders or food plots. Just like someone hunting farm lands and corn fields. Scout things out
"Biologists largely agree on the other two"
Burden of proof is on you. Facts Studies etc etc etc. Not going to happen
And I was intelligent enough to by my own land and manage it the way I want so I don’t have to deal with idiots!!
"endlessly forever"... as performed by Songs from the Big Chair
Does anyone crossbow hunt over bait with rage broadheads and nose jammer while still wearing a Covid mask (normal hunting facemask does not count)?
Outfitters need to be permitted and have a boundary. State needs to abolish sales tax exemption on hunts and land leases for hunts. You have giant operations not contributing to their counties and using alot of resources funded by tax payers. If ya bait ya bait, if you hunt you hunt. There will always be those who like it easy as possible and want to have better than average odds.
It is interesting some hunters actually keep asking for more laws and restrictions, losing more control over their decision process.
Reasonable rules, regulations and laws whether they pertain to life or a sport hardly represents the loss of free will choice by an individual. Rather, they work for the welfare of those involved and prevent the eventual degradation into anarchy.
People tend to let their self benefit make their decisions for them. Baiting is just one of many examples.
With only a 3 week baiting season up here and most timberlands closed to baiting, it is not a huge issue. Fed lands are no baiting also. With huge timberlands, very few deer, bucks only, and few hunters, finding a remote hunt is easy. If you see a no trespassing sign, that is a tip-off that baiting is going on. The only gripe I have is that people forget that deer are a public resource, owned by everyone. They are wild animals, not cattle. I have shot several bucks miles away from private baited lands while tracking or hiding in a brush blind, and have been accused of shooting “their buck.” When you check in a deer you are asked if it was shot over bait. The warden jokes that according to their forms, absolutely no one baits. Every deer is shot after after tracking it for 3 days, sometimes on hands and knees on the bare ground, up and down several ridges, miles in the woods with a 6 hour drag. A buddy of mine uses that line every year. He logs and shoots one every year in his cuts. He does get off the skidder though because he likes to keep it sporting.
I think I remember somebody saying one time that a country without laws...isn't a country. People risk their lives everyday to get to America for the personal freedom and opportunity that our country presents...legally or illegally. Free will is alive and well.
I think our diversity of thought is what makes us strong. The worse thing that can ever happen is for us to lose our individual convictions and 'lie down' for anyone for the sake of appeasement and someone's utopian idea of 'unity'. Republicans and Democrats have been fighting for years; each with a strong conviction and separate vision; with each side not understanding why the other just doesn't see it their way.
As far as how this relates to baiting; the OP presented his support of a government action to possibly change the legality status of baiting. He didn't condemn anyone for legally baiting and it wasn't personal..... anymore than anyone of us thinking any other subject should be legal or not. I mean, I hate baiting, but I'm not going to personally attack an individual for doing it if its legal. That said, make me king for a day, and I would make it illegal in all 50 states for big game hunting with few exceptions.
My opinion is pretty clear, I think once we lay aside the self benefit of the practice, about all we have left is the incessant poking of the public opinion hornets nest and the more than a casual threat of disease transmission for some species. Both are variables that seem undesirable in the vision of the sports future well being.
KS used to have outfitter and guide licenses. They all thought it was too unhandy so went to the state capitol and now its gone.
I hunt in my home state of Tennessee and live only 5 mins from North Carolina so I hunt there too. Me and my dad bought a small place in Ohio 5 years ago and been hunting it since. I also hunt a big farm with some friends in Illinois. Tennessee and Illinois are both illegal to bait, and it's legal in both Ohio and North Carolina. I usually feed some in the two states were it's legal mainly for getting trail cam pics. But I can honestly say the easiest deer to pattern are the deer hitting the big corn and soybean fields in Illinois mainly because there's not a lot of timber so finding their bedding and trails to the fields isn't very tough. In Ohio I have a couple cell cams on our place and I feed more there than anywhere, but it's kinda comical because I put corn out in a cut cornfield. But as I said it is mainly for getting pics. I've never shot a deer in Ohio over bait. In NC I have taken a few kids including my own and hunted over bait and been successful, around here in the Appalachian mountains it's 90% timber and baiting does help but I have much better luck on mature deer finding a big oak tree raining down acorns. I've taken better bucks in Tennessee where baiting is illegal than I have in NC and the terrain is the same. I very rarely hunt over bait, and I have had very few pics of mature bucks in a baitpile in daylight. So for hunting mature whitetails in my experience I have had better luck hunting natural movement. If it's legal I have no problem if you do or don't. I don't bait heavy until January thru April because I enjoy shed hunting more than actual hunting and late season it definitely helps to hold the deer in an area, but I've found sheds from bucks I was getting nightly pics of over a mile away on public ground. So I don't really buy the idea that it hurts the neighbors chance of having a successful hunt. To each his own
yes they have contaminated the KS thread and now moved to the big game thread.If it's legal it should be up to each.
"More of a whine"? I own and have permission on some excellent property. Baiting has only a minimal effect on me. If anything is has helped me kill several bucks on my 1500 acre permission because the slob hunters that also hunt it use bait and the bucks literally avoid those areas some years because they drive their trucks to within 200 yards of an open country feeder. I view it as a practice that needs to be discontinued and the mounting evidence supports it.
Randy, the baiting contaminates KS, not just some thread or web page. I truly hope you get to go hunting someday...I think you'll like it.
The Whine is real with that one. I can't wait to be in KS this year, so much fun.
All the guys that can't actually hunt on here crying for bait piles. LMAO There's hunters and then there's lazy shooters.
Actually, I think the non baiters are blaming baiting for their lack of success. The baiters are not complaining.
Read these posts, and former baiting threads, carefully. Those against baiting are complaining baiting disturbs "their" deer patterns, not the other way around.
Guys, the deer do not leave the woods because someone baits, learn how to hunt during all conditions. Become a complete hunter.
Time to lock this topic. Nobody is going to change any minds. The sound arguments against baiting are being drowned out by the immature posts by the anti-baiters. It's unfortunate, because there are valid arguments on both sides of this divisive issue.
This Topic has been locked. Thank you.
