For the 3rd time in a few years the State of Connecticut is about to pass a law that makes it a felony to import or posses any African Big 5 + Giraffe.
This passed the Senate and House and is expected to be signed by Governor Lamont.
CT has a full sweep, veto proof, Democrat controlled government. And they are using that mandate to go after legal hunters and gun owners. They are no longer prosecuting most crimes and decriminalized drugs, but me owning a buff, leopard and a lion can subject me to 3 felony charges, 30k in fines, and jail time unless I go through an application process and prove that my animals were legally obtained. I’m supposed to present all the paperwork supporting my kills going back to 04, then Connecticut’s environmental protection agency will decide whether to grant me a possession permit. All of that will be subject to a FOIA request and if they decline my app, my mounts will be seized and destroyed.
Let this be a lesson to all of the hunters and gun owners that vote against republicans. And also for all you guys that think posting politically incorrect hunting stuff on Facebook is a way to fight back. This is the result.
I wish you the best of luck and the situation sounds terrible.
No disrespect meant, I know this is your site but......posting it here would've been something I would not have done in your situation. If CT is that crazy I would think your putting a target on your back. You know what they say, "3 people can easily keep a secret if 2 of them are dead".
Before it’s enacted I’m going to meet with my attorney and my contacts at Environmental Protection and then decide my best course of action. It will likely be to move them to my Ohio property. I have plenty of room for them there.
I’m not gonna subject myself to unnecessary risk, but I’m also not going to miss an opportunity to demonstrate to hunters the implications of voting for politicians, and supporting social media platforms who want to destroy hunting. It amazes me that there are hunters here in CT that support them.
Seems like the CT State Legislature has an abundance of stupid. I'd suggest filing a lawsuit against the State of Connecticut, but that will be an expensive battle that's almost unwinnable. That's one thing about Democrats, they stick together like flies on s#$t.
Connecticut wants to be the California of the East. I want nothing to do with either for sure. It is sad times for sure to want to be a human when so many want to push anti-human ways. I agree, anyone who voted to give more power to this anti everything movement is not a hunter/trapper/fisherman. They, anti's, side with the democrat's. If you voted democrat, you side with them and gave them more power. The media nowadays is also nothing but advertisement for the democrat's. If a man wants to be a man and hunt/trap/fish or just be a typical man your nothing but bad according to the media and the anti's. It is pretty blatant on any shows put out nowadays. Sickening and angering is all I can say.
"subject me to 3 felony charges, 30k in fines, and jail time unless I go through an application process and prove that my animals were legally obtained."
With other options available, I don't believe I'd provide that information.......just to attempt to prove a point......
It’s not just this administration. Idiotic liberal/socialistic policies have continued to infiltrate the country for decades, through these “progressive” states, and then are shoved down our throats. 20, 10, even 5 years ago, we were saying “that will never happen” in regards to (pick your poison). Just when you think things can’t get any more bass-ackwards, here we are.
With the curriculums they now teach in elementary through K12 It’s only a matter of time. That nonsense was reserved for university is now in all schools. For you with young kids and grandkids be guarded against Critical Race Theory. It’s Marxism veiled as anti racism And Marxism is what Pat is now facing.
To all who are appalled by thread title, this is to catch your attention! Per Pat's explanation (Which he shouldn't have to explain) he has a plan. (Consulting with his attorney, etc) (Don't you think the anti's would LOVE to use him as a felon poster boy?) He isn't a dummy! He understands the interweb/social media thing.
Elections have consequences folks. Currently the only saving grace is there are 49 other states which we can live within. BUT with the current crop federal politicians, who is to say that the Dept of Interior couldn't use CT as a "role model" and implement this as a federal rule?
Our state, federal and local governments need to be reminded that this is not a Kingdom we live in, it is The United States of America. They obviously have forgotten the pledge of allegiance and their oath of office.
Someone smarter than I should be able to figure out how to use our constitutional law and start removing these politicians from our government when they infringe upon and violate our rights.
"The NRA could have been useful to stop this over reach"
The NRA is a shadow of what it used to be and I doubt they would spend much energy on something like this anymore, after reading THREE separate op-eds that were decidedly against Pittman-Robertson, hunting, and conservation I ended my membership. I'll put my money in organizations that protect my interests more efficiently.
What? The Bowsite Biden backers have been telling us things like this are simply nothing but conspiracy theories. I wonder if they feel the same way about the impending, and inevitable second Civil war? Makes my blood boil!
That’s CRAZY! It should NOT be YOUR responsibility to prove the animals were LEGAL! It should be the STATE’S responsibility to prove they are ILLEGAL! Just another way to make it as DIFFICULT and EXPENSIVE to legally hunt as possible! : (
Colorado will likely be next, especially with the First Husbands animal rights background. Full Dems running this state at the moment. Whatever whacky bill they can think of sails right through.
Super-majorities are really bad for politics. That became a reality in California too and the result is that every far-left piece of legislation that gets put up by the farthest left politicians gets passed because no one wants to look like they're voting with the other side out of worry that they get primaried. So legislation that would never see the light of day otherwise, gets passed.
I don't care what side of the isle you're on, it's not good for the State or Country when almost everyone thinks alike. You end up with autocracy.
Why stay in CT. with the technology you can live anywhere you want to do business. Sad that the Democrats Communist have gain controlled and spreading out, Ct. has lost its history along with the other eastern states.
Common sense says: "It is up to the Them (whoever Them is) to prove that the animals in question were obtained illegally"... but alas, what does common sense have to do with this decision?
Pat, as you know, we've been fighting this bill along with several others. This one was sponsored by Bob Duff, who unfortunately has enough clout to keep it moving forward despite the fact that it is very likely to be found to be Unconstitutional. A very similar bill was struck down in NJ for that very reason. The super-majority of Democrats in the CT General Assembly that you mentioned have already pushed through several really bad pieces of legislation. For example: They removed the Religious Exemption on Vaccines, Voted Down Voter ID, Pushed through State control over town's Zoning rules. Oh, they did manage to vote Pizza as the State Food, that was well worth spending time on.
I'm disappointed that so many Bowsiters advice is to "Move out of CT", there are a lot of reasons to leave this state, but when the default position of so many is to Run Away, instead of to FIGHT, we are in big trouble. The apathy demonstrated by hunters is truly pathetic. Anti-Hunters respond much better than we do when it's time to contacts their representatives, we have the Science on our side, but their emotional arguments win because they yell louder and spend way more money..
We started a 501(c)(4) Non Profit called 'Friends of Connecticut Sportsmen' to fight for the rights of Hunters, Fisherman, Trappers Etc and raising money has been a grind. If all of the Hunting and Fishing Clubs in the state contributed $1 per member, we'd have enough money to not only pay the Lobbyist but to start a nice Legal Defense Fund to challenge crap like this bill in court. Until this session we hadn't had anyone lobbying for Sportsmen in Hartford for years, the Anti-Hunting groups have 5 or 6 FULL TIME Lobbyists!
If you aren't sending a few bucks yearly to the organizations fighting for what you believe in AND if you aren't regularly calling, emailing and testifying for and against relevant Bills, THEN YOU ARE A PART OF THE PROBLEM!
That’s bs, but I guess they have your name and number for the imports. I have turtle shells from my great uncle when they were legal to kill. Don’t know about gifting position but I’m sure it’s illegal to to have them in your position! Oh wait they went down on my boat I meant to say
I like the democrats that say well i'm not about this or that but the far left of my party is pushing that. If you voted democrat you voted for everthing they believe it. you only have bascially two choices, democrat or republican.
I can concur with what someone said above....Pat is high profile and has name recognition. I'm speculating the AG in CT would love to use him as an example.
I also agree with above....it should be fought. However for someone to do that thru the CT court system I'm thinking they need to have standing.....ie charged and a legal case in the system. The armchair lawyers here can correct me on that but I believe that might be a requirement.
I wonder if DJT Jr would be of any help?? Another name to drop for possible assistance would be Johnny Morris.
I don’t even know what to say. I know you have a good career in Connecticut Pat, and probably family and close friends there as well, but to paraphrase Buddy Holly, “I’d shovel sh*t in Lubbock Texas” before I’d live there. I truly hope it doesn’t fly, failing that I hope you get it worked out. Good luck !
I wonder if there will be red states in 25 years? Everyone says just move but Massachusetts people moved to red New Hampshire 25 years ago and now it’s blue. Won’t this happen every where at some point?
Charlie x2. Pretty soon there will be nowhere to go. My Ohio purchase was my first step, but we have aging parents, kids that live in state, so it's easier said than done.
IndBowhunter, the url I posted is the new bill with amendments. The amendment lets me get a possession permit by the Commissioner of Env Protection. By doing that I am subject to FOIA and if they say no, I'm screwed.
The only good news is that I serve on a Board with ACE, and we know the some pretty high up guys in DEEP so at least I'll have someone to talk to. I also wonder if this is even enforceable. I mean, are they really going to send cops with a U-Haul to my place to come collect my legally acquired taxidermy? If they did that, I'd video the entire thing and send it to Don Jr. and Tucker. Everything I killed was legal and I should be able to get a copy of the CITES permits for importation.
Speaking of Don Jr. I texted him this morning and told him about the bill, his response was simply "Insane Sh$t"
Thank you Pat and Ace. Got a link to to the group?
Problem is regular honest folks in this country are caught between a rock and a hard place. Or rather in today's political climate..... scoundrels and cowards. The apathetic and the cowards are as harmful as the scoundrels are IMO. Seen it over and over this last year. You capitulate, you compromise, you lose. If you haven't noticed, those who cower and apologize to the power mad culture are drawn and quartered far worse than those who stand up for their rights. They will never be satisfied. Never. You give them ANYTHING they will take that and then push you even farther back. Not good when your back is up to the cliffs edge.
Don't let other folks do your fighting while you hunker down in the closet, hoping the gators eat everyone else first before they get to your state.
I notice that the Leftwing nutjobs, who viciously attacked Trump as a tyrant and the next Hitler, have kept their cowardly pie holes shut in response to this absurdity.
The bottom line is the Democrats are the enemy of freedom and the proof is irrefutable.
Voter apathy is rampant, and this is the result, not just in CT, but across the country. When the media speaks of voter suppression, they like to say that conservatives want to suppress minorities from voting by asking for a photo ID. In reality, it is the media who suppresses the public by claiming victors in elections 2 hours after the polls are open. The sheeple, then ingest this rancid pablum, and decide not to go and exact their Constitutional right to vote because the media already declared the winner and their vote won't matter anyway. Wake The F@&K up!!!!! Vote and let you voice be heard, they are trying to undo and interpret the Constitution as they see fit. It is meant as a rule of law to be followed to the letter to thwart another act of tyranny. What is happening is the stripping away of our rights, no matter how small, until we are left with nothing. What is happening to Pat and others in CT with this ridiculous legislation is the tip of the iceberg nationally. In NYS, when they rolled out the new license plates, they offered you to have icons placed on it, for sportsmen to show their passion. What is really is about is for firearms logistics. The hunting icon is a signal to whatever law enforcement vehicle is behind you, letting them know that you are a hunter and own a firearm. IF you get pulled over, they will definitely ask you if you have any in your possession, in the vehicle. Just another way that the law abiding public is being duped by the dictatorial Cuomo to further his agenda to confiscate all firearms from NYS residents. Lenin is knocking on your door!!!!!
IDK..... My understanding CA has gotten away with making mountain lion trophies illegal to bring into the state even legally taken in other states? I would think there would be legal challenges, interstate commerce clauses, etc. to prevent such actions. But if it's been challenged I don't think they've had any success?
Is it going to be like a CC permit in some states and only allowed if you can show some "need" for it? Such as the mount to be displayed in a museum, etc?
Was gonna suggest having "tours" of the trophy room to Scout groups and the like.... but these same folks blew up the Scouts too..... lovely bunch of open minded and inclusive people we're dealing with....
"Can't believe this is even remotely constitutional."
"The Constitution has 4,543 words, including the signatures but not the certificate on the interlineations; and takes about half an hour to read."
Constitution questions and answers | National Archives https://www.archives.gov › founding-docs › constitution-..
How many of you have taken the half hour to read it?
"Every member of the State ought diligently to read and to study the constitution of his country, and teach the rising generation to be free. By knowledge of their rights, they will sooner perceive when they are violated, and be the better prepared to defend and assert them." John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the U.S.Supreme Court
I'm seventy-two years old and wish I'd had the eight lesson training I finished two weeks ago on Biblical Citizenship, sooner in my lifetime. The eight week course has been offered to Article V Convention of States volunteers for free, and will restart on July 5th. But it's not too late to do my duty and make a difference for my grandchildren. I've signed on to be a constitutional coach and will be hosting these lesson plans for other people who want to turn this country back to it's freedom loving roots. By the grace of God only, it can be done.
If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2Chronicles 7:14
Notice God does not say when everybody humbles themselves, pray, seek God and turn from their evil ways. That's because he knows most won't, but people who believe in him are the only ones who can make a difference in how events in this world turn.
The rights Americans have enjoyed were plainly declared to come not from government, but God, their creator. If you don't heed/need God, you will justly be enslaved by tyrants of this world.
Hope or despair is the choice before you now that you've heard.
Sorry about what it happening to you. Leave your crappy state and move somewhere conservative. Liberals wreck everything they touch. Everything. Here in Michigan at least we have a republican house and senate but our governor is a liberal disaster. I will be retiring in eight years to a red state hopefully there will be a few left by then
There is a national, selected (blue state) push by anti hunters to pass similar legislation. SCI is actually the only organization that has the money and clout to fight it as they did in California (and won) and also in CT (limited success). Hunters are up against a determined and warped enemy, intent on destroying the sustainable use model of wildlife management. Why any state legislature thinks it needs to interfere and disrupt proven principles of conservation in Africa is beyond me but we all know the “we know better than you and are better than you” mentality of these deranged “wildlife pedophiles” runs rampant in society today. Bitching on Bowsite won’t change what’s happening before our very eyes. Even collectively hunters represent and ever increasing minority in the world at large. Things like this nonsense will increase as we now recover from the world ending pandemic that nearly caused our own extinction (sarcasm implied). I strongly advocate joining SCI whose war chest is heavy but battles are many.
And, those hunters here on Bowsite who VOTED for this are now antihunters. They are former supporters who now have voted against us, infiltrators and traitors. The worst kind of anti hunters. Throw them out of your camps and deny them access to your hunting lands, do it now! Do not become part of the problem by supporting those who have voted against us.
Why don't you move, seriously? I seem to recall many threads over the years that indicate you detest the politics of the state in which you live. I am sure there is part of you that feels that moving is giving up, but there are other places in this large beautiful country of ours. Change is almost always good in the long run. Just my two cents, but you can either move to a place that aligns more closely with your values, or you can stay where you are and keep complaining about it. The answer seems clear.
Many Red states are slowly becoming infiltrated with Blue voters. Take a look at the popular vote, libs/socialists do very well. Running and escaping states is not a long term solution to the greater problem. Thanks to some, such as liberal/socialist voting hunters, the cancer is spreading
A fine example of liberal extremism and virtue signaling, run amok. The perpetrators who voted this in should be required to personally pay legal fees and damages to those being forced to have it properly reversed by the courts.
I agree with Missouri. I can't believe there are hunters who voted for the Socialistic Democratic party. They are going to pay the price too for losing hunting rights and watching taxes go through the roof. I hope they are proud of sleepy Joe and the hoe.
Mass hypnosis is happening throughout this country, and they have plenty of people hoodwinked. I'm not sure there's anything stopping this momentum? Eventually, people will have had enough, but as men become more emasculated, the fight will be futile at best.
Yep, the blue state voters are moving to WY especially retirees. In the last election Albany county which has the University of WY went blue. Also lovely Teton county went blue, but that's a given. IMO these colleges have twisted the minds of the students. Students are there to learn on not fed these professors BS.
Pat has a family to worry about in CT. Aging parents can really put a burden on you when you don't live in the same state. In my last job I saw this everyday. It's sad to see politicans wasting thier time on stupid legislation. But the masses keep voting them in that is the main problem.
It's our screwed up sense for "the rule of law" that keeps enabling this lunatic behavior to continue.
Severe hardship on a large scale is the only reset. That may very well mean that luxuries and decencies are put on the back burner for awhile.
Covid 19 was not the reset, and look at what the response was and the affect it had on life and the economy. When tens of millions of people are thankful for a pot of beans, a simple roof over their head, and a warm blanket instead of gearing up for whatever vacation trip, that reset will be realized.
History over the many millennia has taught us that...
The mistake non- liberals make is assuming that these people share a moral framework with you. They don't ,they believe one thing ; there is no truth but power. I compare non liberals to the US military in Vietnam, they tried to fight a conventional war against a guerrilla army. It doesn’t work. You need to adopt their tactics and beat them with their own club. First off cancel them, if you give them a platform here, in your camp anywhere in your life you are allowing the cancer to hang around until it has grown so large that it takes over. You don’t have liberal friends , it’s a lie. Make “moderates” choose a side if they don’t they are not on your side. Get your kids out of government schools. You vote every day with every dollar. You vote once or twice a year with a ballot.
Pat and some others- If I have to own all the stupidity of any and all actions of the left then you have to own the stupidity of QANON, white nationalists, the proud boys, oath keepers, and the shameful actions of insurrectionists on January 6th. See how that works.
It amazes me how often some label others “sheep” then demand that no independent thinking is allowed and you must follow a single party lock step.
This bilateral thinking gets so old.
With that said, I’m ok with ending hunting for those species if wildlife biologists say the population trends are not good. I’m not for retroactively making people register game taken in the past. Amazing independent thinking huh? You should try it.
Then again…I didn’t vote for anyone in CT.
One more thing-Don Jr. is an idiot and partly responsible for January 6th IMO.
VA turned blue with NOVA (federal) bloat and blue infiltration. Seems like the War of Northern Aggression has been reimagined because the blue-bellies are still marching on us. ;)
Society is getting depraved enough that rebellion and righteousness are growing ever more into alignment. Should make for interesting history.
"With that said, I’m ok with ending hunting for those species if wildlife biologists say the population trends are not good."
And NM ended trapping based on politics rather than wildlife science and the recommendation of wildlife biologists...
The problem with voting on one stand alone issue is you get all the other trash that goes along with it. The state of NM is in dire straits right now because of that, much like CT. States (and now the U.S ) plagued with super majority liberalism, and conservativism, suffer the worse. A balance is always the best scenario.
Some laws are really crazy. I can't even bring a legally take mountain lion to my home in California. I believe things will get a lot worse before anything improves! Sad for us!
"IDK..... My understanding CA has gotten away with making mountain lion trophies illegal to bring into the state even legally taken in other states? I would think there would be legal challenges, interstate commerce clauses, etc. to prevent such actions. But if it's been challenged I don't think they've had any success?"
That is correct. My understanding is that it is not enforced so there has not been an opportunity to challenge it in court. I have heard third hand of hunters bringing lions into the state even calling ahead so that they could be cited and then have various orgs ( e.g. SCI) take up the case and nothing. Despite this, it has a chilling affect on those who are mindful of the law.
I don't believe in censorship. We need to own our words. KS's words need to stand for all to see. They need to see while personally he is opposed to retroactively making people register previously taken trophies, he as ZERO issue with electing those who would.
IMO....Pat and anyone else in that predicament has to be wary for good cause. Down the road...it might not just be limited to CT either. This is a good situation to watch. If I was going on the offensive....maybe rallying some Congress folks to introduce Federal legislation to protect the tradition of hunting.
Seems like they are dividing and conquering. I don't care if you are red, blue, liberal, or conservative but hunters need to unite as hunters. Fighting amongst ourselves will certainly bring us down. I think legally taken game is just that, legally taken. The anti's will fight, and know how to gum things up while we sit and are taken by lack of action. Look at the wolf and grizzly bear. The legal challenges started putting management way behind the 8 ball and wolves exploded over the west and northern states like Michigan and Minnesota; and my favorite in my hunting area, The Mexican Gray Wolf. The same is happening to the grizzly expanding territories in the lower 48. I am putting my money into organizations like SCI and RMEF that work to preserve hunting. United we stand, divided we fall.
"I have not seen the raiser of the sexual deviant complain about twitter and facebook censoring Trump. "
John, the only definition of 'sexual deviant' I've ever seen is "People who don't f* like I do."
If you were familiar with studies on sexual behavior (Masters & Johnson, Kinsey etc.) you'd be surprised at what some of your 'perfectly normal, straight' friends are doing behind closed doors. Yes, some of your buddies are weirder than a snake's underwear. ;-)
Hunters and hunting is in a predicament, and losing. Pat's situation is just one variant, one of the anti's small battles in the well organized and much larger war to discourage hunting and gun ownership. Some of you voted for this, and it is a damn shame.
KSlatlander This gets old explaining to the ill informed. But here goes anyway.
In areas of the world where resources are finite. The sad truth is. If it doesn’t pay for itself, it doesn’t live.
In areas where elephant hunting is allowed, they are thriving. Unfortunately, this is the way of the modern world.
When they start to grow in herd size they eat them selves out of food. The locals kill them illegally because of the damage they do. Zero is gained from that.
If elephants have a dollar value they are protected by the people that gain from that value. It’s the same with everyone of the species you cited.
Cattle and goat farmers in Africa poison and kill any lion they can and let them rot.
To bring back the Disney, Lion King fantasy world many live in. You would have to remove ALOT of humans from the equation first. And they would take exception to that also.
So just as raccoons used to have a dollar value from trapping. They now lay rotting in the roadway.
“KSlatlander This gets old explaining to the ill informed. But here goes anyway. In areas of the world where resources are finite.”
AS- In what part of the world are natural resources or any resources not finite? Seriously, lol. Please splain me some more. You totally missed the point. Have you even looked up the overall population trends of all the species list in Pat’s post? Management of every one of those species is not as simple as range wide population trends but it’s important. Have you ever even read anything about ecology, populations dynamics, wildlife management…ever?
“To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering” (Aldo Leupold).
I actually do read a little. But I prefer to look at the facts. Not social media emotional pablum.
Unfortunately the Continent of Africa is being being developed by primarily China.
Cleared land is more valuable than elephants. Even areas where you think animals are protected by local governments. Poaching and ivory harvest is still high because of local government corruption.
I was in Kenya in 1980 in Tsavo park and it was a big deal to see a mature bull. Just a few years after the ban of elephant hunting. Where elephants were plenty 10 years earlier.
According to the American hunter Craig Boddington, elephant hunting was made illegal in Kenya in 1973 and all animal hunting without a permit in 1977.[7]
By the late 1970s, the elephant population was estimated around 275,000, dropping to 20,000 in 1989.[8] Between 1970 and 1977, Kenya lost more than half of its elephants.[9]
In the 1970s, Ngina Kenyatta (Mama Ngina), wife of then-President Jomo Kenyatta, and other high-level government officials were allegedly involved in an ivory-smuggling ring that transported tusks out of the country in the state private aeroplane.[10][11][12][13][14] New Scientist claimed that there was now documentary proof that at least one member of "Kenya's royal family" (the Kenyatta) had shipped over six tons of ivory to China.[10]
In the 1970s, 1900 elephants were killed in Kenya for their ivory tusks, increasing to 8300 elephants in the 1980s.[15]
Elephants there have rebounded since.
But that is a real world example of good intentioned people from Europe and United States sticking their nose in and making themselves feel good about banning elephant hunting. Then immediately since hunters weren’t protecting them, they were slaughtered for their ivory.
photo safaris don’t pay the bills, Rich hunters do
AS- I don’t do social media. Everything you said may be true in Kenya (sub population) but how is that counter to my statement, “With that said, I’m ok with ending hunting for those species if wildlife biologists say the population trends are not good.”? I clearly made a general statement about the overall population trends of those species. Do you disagree if wildlife biologists who know and study these species recommend to stop hunting these species then it would be wise to listen?
I don’t understand what is so controversial about stopping hunting of imperiled species. We use to hunt Whooping Cranes but stopped due to population crash. A quick google search of these African species shows and overall decline (some severe) in populations. If not hunting them helps conserve them then I’m ok with it. I’m shocked more hunters don’t feel the same. After all we are the first conservationists.
Conserving species and the hunting tradition are not mutually exclusive.
If education worked no one would smoke, drink alcohol, takes drugs or be over weight. Facts don’t matter to people with different belief systems. Your hero’s are their villains. John Kenneth Galbraith’s famous observation: “Faced with a choice between changing one’s mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy with the proof.”
At this point in time you have to beat them at their own game. There are 100’s of larpers locked up in federal jails for over 4 months with out bail because they trespassed at the capitol. There are 1000’s of rioters that have tried to burn down federal court houses ,police stations Etc around the country that have been released with no charges only to be arrested again with no charges. Pat is about to be a felon for doing something perfectly legal . If it’s not clear how you are viewed by the Government then indeed facts don’t matter.
Well said Attitude Sickness ! I used to hunt with some younger folks for moose. Most had liberal views. After a few hunts and sits around the camp fire with honest discussion some began to question some of their values and the information they had been given. That would not have happened if I just refused to hunt or talk with them ! I talk to my anti-hunting neighbors all the time to give the true story on many falsehood and it is amazing how many actually change their opinion. Some of course you can't speak rationally to but they are not the ones that concern me ! Good luck in your fight Pat !!
KS, I would agree with you that wildlife biologists play an important role in setting hunting regulations.
However, to assume that the CT state govt is somehow filled with African wildlife management experts is ludicrous. Even worse, to conflate owning a legally harvested trophy mount from many years prior with less hunting of these species going forward is nonsense.
"A quick google search of these African species shows and overall decline (some severe) in populations. If not hunting them helps conserve them then I’m ok with it. I’m shocked more hunters don’t feel the same."
Under your line of reasoning we should stop hunting every species in North America except for maybe the whitetail deer. Remove your head from the quicksand of Google or wherever else you keep it and broaden your thinking.
KS, the original point of this thread was not if hunting African game should be allowed. It was that the dems in CT passed a law to ban legally taken African big game trophies from being brought into the state (even retroactively).
Point being, this is just another of the many Democrat policies that is anti hunting. It's what they do and what they believe. If you support them you are part of the problem. Never mind trying to change the subject.
Altitude, never asked pat to ban anyone. I’m not interested in the thoughts of a few on here. Don’t have to read their arguments. Nothing wrong with debate over differing opinions and there are some good sources of information on here.
If African species are threatened or in decline, let African game managers make the decision to not hunt them.
What CT (and other states) is doing, is to pacify a "woke" crowd by either shaming hunters that possess these mounts, or make it obnoxiously expensive and obstructive to own them to appease a preference they don't agree with...
To say the least it will be interesting to see what Pats lawyer tells him
I was at a wedding this weekend and three pretty good lawyer friends of mine were there. I will wait to hear what Pats northeastern lawyers have to say before I tell you what my friends said
WRT censoring anybody on any forum. Anyone that agrees with that is the enemy
For instance ksflatlander is harmless. He has his opinion and you may not want him in your camp but censoring him is wrong. I find it interesting to read what the ultra left has to say. At times it’s very amusing. Fun to laugh under any situation
"I find it interesting to read what the ultra left has to say."
I find it interesting how so many self-styled 'conservatives' assume that anyone who disagrees with them in any way must be part of 'the ULTRA left.' As if there is no more centrism, no more moderation, no more 'political *spectrum*' and everything must be in black and white, all or nothing, either or.
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. "
I have a neighbor that runs a hunting camp, retired from an oil company and has a PETA member wife who refuses to let him bring home any animal heads or mounts. They are both Democrats. She will not eat meat, only rabbit food.
I would consider anyone that voted for what we have in Washington right now ultra left. So I’ll stand with my original statement. I do think there are centrist but the left that post on here certainly do not qualify.
I personally would find an organization that would cover the legal battle for me (representing all hunters) and then refuse to comply. Make it go to the Supreme Court if necessary and settle it once and for all.
Censoring is wrong in Free Speech no matter what political spectrum one is in, the stupid light that shines on some is as much of a right as any other, this is the fabric of our society but this country is heading down a dangerous road with this cancel culture of one over the other.
This is Pat's house and he has the right of what stays and what goes as in any private enterprise.
“ And also for all you guys that think posting politically incorrect hunting stuff on Facebook is a way to fight back. This is the result.”
“ If I have to own all the stupidity of any and all actions of the left then you have to own the stupidity of QANON, white nationalists, the proud boys, oath keepers, and the shameful actions of insurrectionists on January 6th. See how that works. It amazes me how often some label others ‘sheep’ then demand that no independent thinking is allowed and you must follow a single party lock step.”
“ I don't care what side of the isle you're on, it's not good for the State or Country when almost everyone thinks alike. You end up with autocracy.”
“ and the result is that every far-right piece of legislation in that gets put up by the farthest right politicians gets passed because no one wants to look like they're voting with the other side out of worry that they get primaried.”
“ I don’t understand what is so controversial about stopping hunting of imperiled species. We use to hunt Whooping Cranes but stopped due to population crash. A quick google search of these African species shows and overall decline (some severe) in populations. If not hunting them helps conserve them then I’m ok with it. I’m shocked more hunters don’t feel the same. After all we are the first conservationists.”
For emphasis: “ If not hunting them helps conserve them then I’m ok with it.”
What you did not say (though I’d expect you’ll agree) is that... “If HUNTING them helps conserve them then I’m ok with [that, too].”
That’s the whole difference.
If I were watching my children starve, I would have a very difficult time backing any policy that took food off of my table. If Rich White Guys who want to shoot Elephants are going to provide me with a way to feed my kids, they’re my Friends. If eradicating Elephants allows me to raise enough of a crop to feed my family, then the Poachers are my Friends.
FWIW, I cannot see any law passing Constitutional muster if it does not at least grandfather in legally taken & imported specimens.
“ I find it interesting to read what the ultra left has to say. At times it’s very amusing. Fun to laugh under any situation.”
That’s how far wrong US Politics have gone, then, isn’t it? You think Flatlander is “ultra left”? That would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic.
Unlike the vast majority of leftist/socialist..... I'm still of the mind I may not agree with what you say.... but will defend to the death your right to say it. Cutting out a man's tongue does not silence him..... but clearly proves you fear and cannot debate or refute what the man may say....
That said.... any hunter who voted for this mess or any part of it is unarguably part of the problem. A BIG part of the problem. Only a moron could not see this crap coming.... or maybe they did. They will have to live with that when their day of reckoning comes.
They voted for it and by doing so lend support what has become the most Orwellian actions and grabs for total power across the country I have ever seen in my entire life. Not by just a little.... but by a factor of 10.
When I last read Animal Farm it was just another entertaining book to me. Kind of eye opening. The left has since then taken it up as an instruction manual......
Did I miss it or is there a link above to the groups trying to fight this as Ace posted? Lets get into this.....
A Link to the Friends of Connecticut Sportsmen Fundraising Site. (on GoFundMe) If anyone is inclined to throw a few bucks our way, we certainly appreciate it.
We have hired a professional Lobbyist, and on balance have made great strides fighting off Anti-hunting and Anti-Trapping bills this year. This Africa Big 6 Bill is an outlier, the main sponsor is a powerful Democrat, and no friend of Sportsmen.
Voting for the left does not make someone a horrible person, but for certain it makes them an anti hunter. There is no way to deny that. If you voted for the left/socialists you are an enemy of the hunting fraternity. You voted the same as PETA, HSUS and the other liberal anti hunting groups.
"Unlike the vast majority of leftist/socialist..... I'm still of the mind I may not agree with what you say.... but will defend to the death your right to say it. Cutting out a man's tongue does not silence him..... but clearly proves you fear and cannot debate or refute what the man may say...."
"...he proposed the use of "the United States" to identify the government under the authority of the Constitution. The words "United States" had already been used in the Declaration of Independence and Articles of Confederation as well as Thomas Paine's The American Crisis. It was Ellsworth's proposal to retain the earlier wording to sustain the emphasis on a federation rather than a single national entity. "
"Though Ellsworth left the Convention near the end of August and did not sign the complete final document, he wrote the Letters of a Landholder to promote its ratification. He also played a dominant role in Connecticut's 1788 ratification convention,..."
After reading the bill it appears there is a kind of grandfather clause. Not exactly but if you have any of those animals mounted or alive before October of this year, with a permit from the DEEP In CT you can keep them. Pat mentioned that. Only question is how hard is it to get that permit.
I hope it’s easy and this is just a dumb as woke feel good bill with no real enforcement or wasting of law enforcements efforts
There is no privacy provision related to the application or permit. So every nut job animal rights person can FOIA the list and find out everyone that has a mounted Cecil and publicize it on Facebook and Twitter, or worse.
When you first posted I went to the CT legislation site and read the vote count as well as other items/amendment's. It seemed to be too late at that point, there were only 4 votes against and around 33 for as I remember(4 were absent)?
Somewhat similar to when I posted here that KS was under attack from the NRA and Tenpoint on full inclusion for Xguns...apathy...that's what we got as well.
I have no idea who would want to live or stay in a situation like this, but I can tell you after visiting them all...there are 49 other choices.
"There were several reasons for Rhode Island’s resistance including its concern that the Constitution gave too much power to the central government at the expense of the states. The Constitution would also have made the state’s practice of printing paper money illegal. The issue best remembered today, however, is that in its original form, the Constitution did not explicitly protect religious freedom, a core Rhode Island principle introduced by Roger Williams and protected in its Royal Charter. "
"There is no privacy provision related to the application or permit."
Gross overstepping to the reason behind privacy. When someone is injured, or a high cost to loss of other property occurs, there should be hell to pay.
Infuriating to say the least to the point to where you want to say, "I'm your huckleberry, and that's just my game" when they try to take them for non-compliance...
“ I do think there are centrist but the left that post on here certainly do not qualify.”
LMSAO...
There is/are no “Left” here. But there sure are a lot of people gone so far to the so-called “right” that they wouldn’t know a centrist if he knocked their teeth out.
Life sure must be simple with a Single-Issue Voter mindset...
They are as dumb as a bunch of California democrats. Politicians are always finding ways to make our lives miserable. I wish they would all get back on the spaceship they came her in and leave.
“Life sure must be simple with a Single-Issue Voter mindset...“
Law abiding hunters are being singled out and attacked from a democratic controlled state. That is the issue here. There is no “centrist” Ideology to this bill what so ever. If you voted blue, you don’t care about your rights as a hunter at all(or it’s just a freedom you’re willing to sacrifice for your “centrist” ideology)
You were insinuating that RI was bad somehow for not sitting in at the Constitutional Convention. I merely pointed out that they were protesting some shortcomings, which protest was part of the reason that the 'Bill of Rights' was ultimately written and included. Thereby explicitly securing the rights to practice one's religion, bear arms, etc. etc.
You seem to go back and forth between knocking CT and RI and whatever else is bugging you at the moment. Maybe turn off the radio?
“ Pat and some others- If I have to own all the stupidity of any and all actions of the left then you have to own the stupidity of QANON, white nationalists, the proud boys, oath keepers, and the shameful actions of insurrectionists on January 6th. See how that works. It amazes me how often some label others “sheep” then demand that no independent thinking is allowed and you must follow a single party lock step”
First off no that’s not how it works, second thing is there was no freaking “insurrection” despite your hyperbole! As to “Qanon”, if you look at the CNN definition anyone that voted for Trump is “Qanon”. As to the others I don’t see them burning down federal buildings, committing acts of violence across the Country, carving out their own autonomous empires within city limits like your side with ANTIFA and BLM. Matter of fact I have never seen Proud Boys or Oath Keepers committing violence and I have never met a White Supremacist, but I daily see blacks insisting whites need indoctrination because of the color of their skin, for over a year we’ve all witnessed the looting, violence, and robbery committed by your side.
So listen Skippy you voted for this crap so you own it and all your claims otherwise are openly mocked. The Left is pure evil. The list of your teams perversity is legion. Men in girl’s locker room, men in girl’s sports, your dumbass President insisting an 8 year old should be allowed to transition, 256 different sexes, run away inflation, bending over for China, defunding police, the racist and marxist critical race theory being forced down the throats of elementary students, Drag Queen story hour in hundreds of elementary schools, and on, and on and on.
^....ya, that Chipman guy is a threat to law abiding weapons owners and who knows what else. IMO.....I could fathom that he's the kind of guy that would ban a weapon of the month then say anything you shot with it is an illegal harvest....turn it over or else. Gotta love Sen Kennedy and his style!
""Seven Wonders 1 day ago - Chipman Finally said any Rifle larger than 22 that Accepts Magazines! That's pretty much EVERY Rifle, aside from Lever Guns and Some Bolt Action Rifles.""
Steven, they were “armed”. Had a lady on FB say that they each had two arms so that’s what they meant and you can kill people with your arms so they did indeed have weapons and were armed. The Left is insane.
I don't even want to get started...I never dreamed that we would one day see what is happening in this country.
And frankly I'm sick of all the " let's come together we can make the world a better place crap"...that's a ruse...what they are really saying is you have to think like we think.....sorry chumps....never going to happen, nor should it.
Our forefathers would have been dumping tea, and loading the smokepole long already.
Nothin, they can't fix with a couple months in a re-education camp..... in case they missed a couple in school.....
What is it they say about democracy? Literally two wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner. We are a republic with democratically elected officials..... under a blanket federal constitution that guarantees these rights to all citizens, inalienable rights.
Without the rights..... such as the right to tell the wolves to go wizz up a rope.... well, wolves see no problem with mutton..... willfully blind, clueless.... insane..... some actually evil.
Life , Liberty, Property. You have the right to legally obtained and lawful personal property. All of it. Not restricted to what some psycho Karen thinks he/she/they will ALLOW you to possess.
Excepting of course for HOAs....... same psychos, but you willfully signed up for it......
Thinking about the last time I could shell out $20K for an African hunting trip and given that SB0925 makes zero sense, I had to search for another explanation. My thought is that SB925 is not about protecting African game species but partially about political polarization designed to pit American against American, the rich and the not so rich and in the process destroying African wildlife. One has to ask who gains from the destruction of wildlife? Politics does make interesting bedfellows in interesting times.
I’ll try and post the floor debate from this week. But the question about intent was asked and I’m paraphrasing here but basically the Democrat sponsor said:
“The intent of this bill is to send a clear message that trophy hunting is abhorrent and CT intends to de-incentivize this practice”
The most infuriating part was the minority republicans kept agreeing with the anti-trophy hunting sentiment. They were pushing back on the broad implications of this bill since a couple of their moms had leopard skin coats.
Pat, when was the last time you heard a politician argue from *principles*. "My Mom has a fur coat" is about as much abstract thought as this whole dam' generation of imbeciles is capable of.
I got on for the last 2 speakers before the vote and found it ironic when the last speaker was talking about (hypothetically) getting pulled over with her leopard coat on and the woman (actually) sitting behind her in the video had a leopard print mask on! : )
Very sad. Ironically this bill will do nothing for the animals that they are purporting to save. Without hunter dollars, the populations of these animals will precipitously decline. But these liberals and RINO's will feel good about themselves as they "showed" the trophy hunters. Liberal ideas always result in the exact opposite of their stated intent. Any hunter who votes democrat is contributing in the extermination of their way of life and the wildlife that we love. If you are a hunter, you should support SCI, as they are our last best hope. And for those of you who think that this type of thinking is limited to the communist state of Connecticut, I have some swampland to sell you. Keep sitting on your hands. It won't be long until it comes to your state.
The dem/socialists are very much supported by PETA and HSUS , now even some hunters have voted for the anti hunting party. With former hunters now voting going against hunting, our time is getting more limited. Hard to believe hunters have voted with HSUS and PETA. Deny them access to your lands and hunting camps.
Whether you agree/disagree it's coming ... We will either take a hard stand for our rights as hunter/fishermen or they will be gone within a short matter of time ... It's not only hunters, they are also after our fishing and more importantly our weapons ... I am no longer silent and no I don't babble on social media ... I do however preach this message to every single person I come in contact with on a daily basis ... We must defend our own ... We must protect our own and we must not apologize for our beliefs in true freedom ... Godspeed to all! Please support your fellow comrades in these local political battles and never give in or give up ....
Tom MacDonald. Blowing up the internet. I believe currently #1 on iTunes ALL MUSIC GENRES. Independent creator, doesn't give a rip, speaks his mind and no sponsors or contracts, can't be fired or cancelled unless they shut down the internet. He's found a bypass to corporate music, he and his girlfriend Nova are doing this on their own. She's a producer/director genius. Right now Snowflake, just released a couple days ago, is or near topping the charts, not just rap, nearly all of them.... and doing so as independent with no corporate ties, no label, no managers. No masters but his fans to please. Creating his own wave of the future. Scares the 'ell out of them.
There are more sane folks out there with common sense than it seems there are. And they are getting pretty fed up with this crap. Pizzed off. And finally doing something, truly WOKE in the classical sense. Tom is proving that in spades as his success has been all grass roots/word of mouth. And kinda why I'm putting it out here. You don't have to agree with everything ANYONE says. But need to be allowed to say it.... and then we can take it from there without the corporate/elitist/ woke/ tech filters and BS spin. Rather hear some true honesty than "lies for your own good" and censorship. As many have said and he's said in his songs..... facts don't care about your feelings.
Why promote such things, vocalize such positions? Because it's clear, sitting there quietly so as not to get "involved" will not save you from the gators. It only lets them grow bigger, stronger and hungrier before they turn their attention to you. Only thing that drives such monsters back into their holes is something bigger and badder.
Take the time to check it out. Have been following his story for a while, but this one he's knocked it out of the park. When you go into Tom's cage, don't worry about how he looks..... just listen to the message and show no fear. Cuz he won't. =D
Link above is to Officer Tatum review. Direct link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCMwlorNEZk
