Here is the Joe Rogan Podcast on ethical hunting... I am not saying its right, just interesting.
I found this very interesting and gives a little different perspective on different hunting methods and some hero shots...
If you don't know Rogan, you should!
Don't take this personally, I can't understand how so many people on here can't figure out how to attach a "link"? I mean there's a box before you type that specifically says "link". Maybe Bowsite represents the "missing link"?
It’s a good thing my wife is highly evolved in those types of things, or I’d still be neck deep in the primordial ooze.
This guy is conflating EASE of making a clean , killing shot with “ethical” hunting or “ethical” choice of hunting weapon. That’s well-intended bullshit, but bullshit just the same.
Also not helpful for someone to present himself as a bowhunter and then assert that “most people [bowhunters] f—k it up”.
But it is helpful that he is willing to point out that people who don’t hunt simply don’t Get what’s going on in a “hero shot”. He’s not suggesting that no such photos should be taken, but simply that they are not suitable for placement in the public eye... because people who don’t Get It simply don’t Get It. “Grip and Grin“ pictures will NOT EVER when hunting any fans at anything that even begins to approach the rate at which they win enemies.
So I was glad to see him point out that someone who hunts with a spear and has a 5 yard maximum Accurate range who self limits to 5 yard attempts is being just as ethical as someone with a 300 yard effective range with a rifle who will limit himself to 300 yard shots. Conditions permitting.
Personally, I view hunting as a very intimate act, and (like other intimate acts which I can think of) it’s not an activity which is genuinely suitable for video recording or sharing with anyone not directly involved. Some things maybe be should just be kept as personal memories where they can’t ever be exposed to public scrutiny.
Call me crazy, but IMHO there’s just nothing heroic about outsmarting an animal that has a brain the size of your fist; especially not when you rely on calls, decoys and the Rut (or habituation to a food source) to help overcome the animals’ natural wariness. So attempting to glorify oneself by filming that animal’s death in a particularly violent or gruesome manner just seems a bit childish, really. Not the public face of Hunting that garners much support from the NON-hunting public, and it only provides the Antis with ammunition to use against responsible wildlife management practices.
In which case EVERYBODY loses, the animals included.
We put pictures of our kids on the wall, but not pictures of them emerging from the womb.
We’re a minority. We can’t bully our way into getting what we want; all of our Power here comes from our ability to overcome stereotypes and persuade The Middle. Otherwise we play right into PETA’s and HSUS’ hands. Time to swallow a little pride and be good neighbors.
Don’t know why that seems to chafe as much as it does.
I understand what you're saying, but isn't this what animals that we hunt do? I mean they're eating, screwing (or trying to) or resting. If you aren't factoring in these things when hunting, you won't be very successful. No????
HDE for the win. Rogan started hunting 10 years ago? Maybe? How does that equate to anything as an authority on hunting ethics? It doesn’t other then what he’s derived to make his own opinion. Just like mine and everyone else’s opinion on ethics. It’s really a personal thing that is influenced by our own experiences. Nothing more.
Besides being a topic I find just stupid, I never really have understood discussing the ethics of killing animals for my food. It’s just dumb to me. Because I hunt to kill things. And, it ain’t always pretty. Never met a wild animal with the mindset that they wanted to die. Regardless of how someone was trying to kill them.
I’ve went hand to hand with more then a few deer that I fouled up trying to ethically kill. Does the fact it ended with me and the animal fighting one another for its life make me a bad guy? Nope. Just meant I didn’t do as good a job as I should have or, the deer didn’t stand and take it initially like they should have.
So, listening to his or anyone else’s idea of ethics is the last thing on my list of intentions. That’s just me though.
I watched Joe Rogan once, he didn’t interest me…….
I didn't say I agree with him on this, I do like some of his podcasts... Whether I agree with his view point or not. I still usually learn something interesting or new. He has some very intelligent guests on his podcasts... Not all of them, but some.
Regardless of Rogan being right or wrong he is a smart dumb guy, so take that for what it's worth.
Generally, ethics are based on our moral values. Is it moral to hunt? I would say absolutely. How we hunt and how we kill dictates whether or not it is ethical.
What gives me the right to hunt and take another living beings life? For me that one is easy to answer. GOD. "Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you".
Don't believe in God, fine. We evolved eating meat. We left the caves and created civilization solely because of a protein rich diet that made us stronger and smarter. Where is the morality in saying "I don't like eating meat so I don't think you should"
It's really very simple. We are genetically wired to need to hunt. Not everyone is but we are. It is as normal as giving birth or planting a garden.
Define “Sport”, right??
Great question… Because really, Ethics has basically nothing to do with how we treat the animals (we kill them; then they’re dead).
Ethics is really all about how we treat each other, and at the root, what is “ethical” is whatever does the most good for the most people. At its’ simplest, to know whether something is Ethical or not, all you have to do is ask yourself how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot, or what would happen if “everybody” were to do that.
For example, it can be argued that it would be unethical to toss a rock into the Grand Canyon, because if every tourist did that....
Likewise, it’s unethical to take low-percentage shot opportunities which are likely to result in wounded & lost animals, because if we were all to habitually kill three animals in order to fill a single tag, there would soon be a need to reduce the number of tags sold, and we’d have point creep for every license. The point of getting a quick, clean kill is to take no more than your share of the Resource, and to do so in a way which is minimally disruptive to those around you so that they have an equally good opportunity to fill their own tag(s). Yes, it’s also “kinder” to the animal, but Dead is Dead; it’s probably much more important to minimize suffering just so that we don’t turn public opinion against Hunting on the whole. Almost anyone who can do math understands the need for population control; no-one but a sociopath respects callous indifference to suffering.
And the problem with the way that “sport” hunting is generally understood by far too many among the non-hunting public is that they think it’s all just a Penis Contest and they don’t understand why we can’t all just grow the hell up. Inflicting needless suffering on an animal just to impress your friends DOES seem pretty damn messed up, doesn’t it? Does to me.
But when you calmly explain that it’s really about time spent out in nature as an active participant, and about taking personal responsibility for the deaths of at least SOME of the animals that you eat, some of those folks will start to come around a bit. At least among those who haven’t already determined that You Are The Devil.
But a funny thing happens.... Another essential aspect of Ethics is mutual respect. If you can respect the fact that most non-hunters do not wish to see blood & gore, some of those folks will find that they can respect what matters to you, even if they don’t care to think about it (or wish to see the aftermath).
So back to the question...
“ What makes killing for sport ethical...or, unethical?”
Easy answer: Sport Hunting is Ethical because it doesn’t unfairly deprive others of access to the Resource. Poaching and all forms of game-hoggery are Unethical because Uneven Distribution/Consumption Of Public Resource.
It still wouldn't fill up. That's a pretty damn big hole in the ground...
That said, I think most people want the animals that they kill to die as quickly as possible with the least amount of pain as possible. That said, I've never felt bad about taking an animal or fish's life. It's just not in me like it is in some. Yet, I would never shoot someone's pet without guilt.
Lastly, when I was 12, I went to the Grand Canyon and I definitely threw dozens of rocks in to it.
@Ike - but at least we can have the conversation...
I would guess so, but laws govern only the actions (and in some cases the intentions, such as “attempted ___________”), rather than the motivations behind them, right?
There’s zero doubt that some people hunt for Reasons which are pretty thoroughly messed up, but so long as they play by the rules (both formal and unwritten), about all we can do is try to persuade them to act respectable in Public...
Rogan is a talented entertainer who smokes a bowl full prior to pretty much every podcast he does. And known to take whiskey shots at times after that. Entertainer. Not philosopher or ethicist any more than anyone else may be with a buzz on..... and should be taken as seriously as any other chemically indulgent person as the night wears on.
That said..... the pigs I've seen speared died pretty fast on the end of it while in the hunters hands. None I'm aware of lost, but then again are usually held in place by a couple strong dogs. As humane as anything I've seen. And as or more heart pounding exciting as any hunting I've been on.