Contributors to this thread:
Single VS Double Bevel Broadheads
Pros and cons? I am looking at a fixed head for elk and Im attempting to dive into the difference between the two. Thanks!
I’m gonna try out the Iron Will single bevel this year. Many guys praise the benefits of single bevel heads for years. Not sure of all the pros but I’ve always heard of the SB heads rotating and making for more penetration. Also bone breaking abilities
The other claim is a spiral wound channel that supposedly bleeds better. However a single bevel usually is harder to get super scary scalpel sharp, and that sharp cut tends to bleed better. Bottom line hit the animal in the right place with most any sharp broadhead and its dead ;)
Call Bill at Iron Will and talk to him about it.
"....always heard of the SB heads rotating and making for more penetration."
But then, what do you do with all the arrows that "naturally" rotate the opposite direction and you've fletched them accordingly? ; )
Your arrow fletch needs to match the rotation of the single bevel. My understanding is that single bevel rotates as it penetrates and cuts a spiral wound channel. And it does cut more due to the spiral, but does not penetrate more than double bevel. I used single bevel on three African animals. I would not say that it penetrates more than a double bevel.
"single bevel usually is harder to get super scary scalpel sharp"
You can get them shave sharp, but never scalpel. Single bevel angle won't allow it. Figurative term, I know.
I’ve killed a fair amount of big game with a single bevel head and can’t say they killed them any more dead than other heads I’ve used.
Have used both on multiple elk.
Can’t tell much difference with Two blade single or double bevel for penetration, blood trails or travel distance after hit.
Big 3-blade broadheads (1 3/8”Snuffers, 1 1/4” VPAs) have resulted in consistently more blood on the ground and significantly shorter recoveries for me.
If the broadhead is sharp and in the right place, it works.
I don't think it really matters on an elk. A scary sharp, cut on contact broadhead will get it done every time if the shot is good! 2 blade, three blade, four blade.. Whatever!!
I am not an expandable fan, but I know a ton of guys that are, and they get it done every year or there about using them...
It ALL about shot placement!!
Some of the poorest blood trails I've seen were with single bevel 2-blade heads. I don't use them anymore and much prefer a 3-blade head. YMMV
Have had some really tough blood trails with both single and double bevel broadheads….
I like the torquing effect of single bevel heads. Often it spins the deer around and they run toward me instead of away. ;-)
I shot a deer in Texas a few years ago with a single bevel using my recurve. I was amazed at the exit hole.
A good way to look at it is a single bevel MAY do more damage spinning and if not it will do the same as a double bevel so why not go for the MAY do more damage win win.
3 blades….50% better than two! Double bevel likely to be sharper than single bevel.
Single bevel…. cuts a spiral and may? split bone better than a double bevel. Does a spiral cut buy more rapid blood loss and better blood on the ground? Not in my experience which of course is not an extensive study. As per bone splitting…..don’t want to rely on any broadhead to handle large bones reliabably…but have witnessed some double bevel bone breaking ability….have a bear vertebrae (spinal cord cut) and moose femur broken by a double bevel mechanical. No doubt a single bevel would have done this too.
Bottom line, shoot straight, understand vitals and how an arrow kills and go have fun with the broadhead you think will serve you best. Good luck!
Having designed, tested and manufactured single bevel heads I can tell you in my findings they split bone exceptionally well when compared to double bevel. I will also add that even though I could hunt with single bevel heads of a very reputable mfg for free I choose to shoot a three blade. Lots of feeling were hurt when I decided to make the switch but I knew it was the right decision on the first blood trail. If I were hunting buffalo sure but elk size animals an down I am 3 blade all the way. If you have the energy why wouldn't you want to turn that into damage?
320 bull gets a thumbs up for a good post from me! His experience is like mine on blood trails.
Killed a bunch of deer with both. I like the performance of single bevel heads and tend to prefer them. Properly sharpened double bevel heads perform well too.
Personally, I feel the energy expended by the creation of the twisting wound channel, inhibits penetration somewhat. I shot single bevel for a couple Seasons, never got a pass through. Ended up switching to Magnus Stingers, much better result regarding penetration.
Just my personal observations, take it with a grain of salt
Pretty sure physics would indicate that any force twisting or rotating is bleeding away away force moving forward.
Bull I killed in 2017 with a 150 gr single bevel cutthroat.
Exit through the lungs
Exit through the lungs
Through the shoulder blade
Through the shoulder blade
Signature “S” cut
Signature “S” cut
Personally, I feel the only real advantage a single bevel offers versus a double bevel is strength.
I liked the outcome. I’m partial to two blade broadheads though. My next experiment might be with the ozcut 3 blade single bevel broadhead.
What do you guys think about the idea that SB is really only advantageous when the edge profile is more like a chisel than a scalpel?
Makes sense to me in principle that the SB advantages would be more obvious with a massive head than if you were to just put a SB edge on a standard design.
Penetration? If the arrow is already rotating in-flight and the SB prevents that rotation from coming to a screeching halt upon impact, I would think that that would be a benefit to deeper penetration, but who are we kidding? A good #50 compound should put a sharp two-blade through just about anything. Unless maybe you hit a really massive bone, in which case the purported advantage in splitting bone should come out in your favor.
I’ve thought this through a bunch of times on a bunch of threads, and I think it’s plausible that SB could deliver some benefit… on the assumption that the blade itself is relatively thick. Probably if you take an old standby like the Ace Standard and grind it into an SB design, it seems likely that whatever differences would be much reduced. That’s the style of head that I shoot, so I am perfectly happy with the double.
Long and short, I don’t think there is any basis to believe that SP is inferior in any appteyyway and there are several reasons to believe that it could confer an advantage…. but I just haven’t been able to convince myself that it’s necessary. And my bows don’t have half the power output that a lot of yours do.
For the record, I don't think SB heads are magical in any way. I also don't go around singing their praises. They're what I use exclusively these days. Mine will shave my arm clean, and they're just as sharp as the DBs I used to sharpen. They penetrate extremely well for me. I shoot a 55-65# longbow (depending on the animal I'm hunting) and complete penetration is the norm for me. I haven't tried to shatter a femur or humerus, but I've no worries about needing that capability. Blood trails....neither better or worse than DB heads. It's typical...almost expected now...that I'll see the animal drop within sight. I love the thick and sturdy blades on mine. It's very unusual to damage one unless a rock is hit. The S-shaped channel is a fact, though I can't claim it has an advantage. Given that I hunt with a longbow and typically achieve total penetration, I view the slightly twisting cut as having no adverse effect on energy or penetration. It may actually aid penetration as it forces apart some of the tougher connective tissues and rib bones. It's all conjecture and debatable. I love the ones I use and I've been with them a good long time.
I like the heavy blades and stout tip. To me they pop open hard bone. I can’t say for 100% that’s true. But, I’ve bent the tips on COC, snuffers, and woodsmen heads on deer bones. Never bent a double bevel tip on anything.
A chisel tip head we use on compounds acts in the same way splitting bone. I can’t prove that either but, I can say the only animals I’ve never gotten at least two holes on were shot with a COC head out of a compound and trad bow. Including needle tipped snuffers and woodsmen.
I know the blood trails are less with the two blades. I’ve shot animals with a bunch of different brands outta trad bows. I don’ t believe the single bevel solves that. At least I haven’t saw it. But, I will shoot a less then perfect angle with one versus a fine tipped COC or three blade traditional head. And, so far I I’ve yet to fail to get penetration with one because the tip has bent over. Unlike a double bevel.
As with a many discussions on minute details and minor differences in archery equipment, single or double bevel makes no difference. None at all. The most ridiculous aspect of this discussion is that somehow the broadhead bevel will affect arrow rotation. That's as nonsensical as trying to align broadhead blades with fletching due to some aerodynamic air flow. Whoa!
The single bevel head does in fact cause arrow rotation when it encounters tissue. The broadhead will rotate away from the beveled edge.
Can't be any more dead than dead.
“ And, so far I I’ve yet to fail to get penetration with one because the tip has bent over. Unlike a double bevel.”
Are you talking about comparably thick blades? Some of the really hefty SBs would be about impossible to bend over, but I think they’d be equally tough as DBs. Or near as makes no difference.
I can see how the SBs that are built like chisels are built like chisels… ridiculous to compare them to anything that’s built much lighter and then attribute the toughness to SB vs DB.
If you’re comparing an Ace Standard ground single vs double, that’s different.
Not saying you’re wrong; just not sure whether you’re keeping track of your apples & oranges..
I shot lighter 3 blades for a long time with varied and not always good results. I switched to heavy 2 blades and really like the penetration and durability however the blood trails were often lacking. The two blades were deadly it just took some effort to find the animals on some occasions. I now shoot heavy three blades and like the penetration, durability and blood trails. For some reason I am drawn to two blades but my results with heavy 3 blades are over riding that for now.
I used a single bevel last year. Performed well, cannot add anything to the blood trail as the bull fell in sight. Upon recovery of the head it didn't loose anything or get damaged. Would have no issues reusing the same head. I will say I personally think they are quieter than the double bevel heads I have used.
"The single bevel head does in fact cause arrow rotation when it encounters tissue. The broadhead will rotate away from the beveled edge".
Truth. If you've ever shot one into a 3D target, you soon realize you need to twist the arrow to remove it smoothly.
I'm sure the single bevel will slightly rotate an arrow in muscle tissue. Does that cause more hemorrhaging? Doubtful, imo.
I've actually been shooting a zero bevel last 2 years and I'm killing stuff deader than dead.
The single bevel BD has been around a very long time. Traditional archers looking for more advantages started using SB after the Ashby study that stated SD pentrated better when hitting bone splitting the bone. Along with a 650 grain arrow. Compound shooters d not need them. I shoot a 58lb blacktail and killed a nice 6x6 in 2019 using 3 blade VPA. However I just picked up 200grain VPA SB BHs. they are wicked.
I've been a trad hunter for almost all my life and I guess I never needed them either.. But whatever gives you more confidence, by all means use it
Have any of you checked to see if you get rotation with a DB head? While it is really hard to tell on animals, it is easy to tell on Block style foam targets. My arrows with DB heads always rotate through a foam target. Pull it back slowly and it is easy to follow the rotation.
I shot a doe through both scapulas with a Muzzy Phantom 4 blade head and it was easy to see the broadhead had turned going out the offside scapula vs the onside one because of the cut the bleeder blades made being a different size than the main blade. Easier to tell with Zwicky Eskimos due to the really small bleeders. I never have felt a good spinning arrow with sufficient speed and a cut on contact head slams to a stop when it hits an animal. Sure, it slows a lot, but it doesn't stop turning.
Pretty sure my Rage Hypodermics are single bevel....... *sits back, sips coffee, watches heads explode*
I saw an Ironwill video. They were using a high speed camera testing single bevel. And you can see the arrow when it hits and it starts rotating thru the animal
Can someone explain how an arrow slightly rotating through an animal is advantageous?
SB are better at cracking bone (that is it) soft tissue is no diffrence
Having tested a whole lot of heads...too many. Single bevel edges require a higher grade of steel to maintain edge integrity through the penetrative process. Rotation can be tricky because it is optimized when the bevel grind AND the pitch is at he same rate as for the rate of rotation the arrow naturally has.....it is a pretty semantic argument, because it is only a factor when the rotation is in the same direction as the resistance of of what you are trying to rotate around as well as which edge of the head is contacting the bone resistance......which means 50% of the time (statistically)......it is not even and advantage. The tip grind on a singe bevel IS the single largest advantage (physics and mechanics) of a single bevel head. It provides the optimum transition from the separating and cutting edges. It is better at breaking heavy bone and maintaining its linear momentum. It is IMO not a huge advantage, but the most quantifiable one. It also allows any system to take advantage of the momentum possessed by heavier projectiles, which is why Dr. Ashby found that they were an advantage in his studies (again, just my opinion). All in all, I am still a fan of heavy blades (min .040, preferably .055 or better) and medium weight double bevel heads as I have had phenomenal luck in maintaining the intended results. Good discussion!
One thing is for sure.
If you want to take a pic of the “S” cut to show your buddies you can only do it with a single bevel ;)