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Shooting/collapsing question…
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Shug 30-Jul-21
Matt 30-Jul-21
Jaquomo 30-Jul-21
JL 31-Jul-21
carcus 31-Jul-21
Mark S 31-Jul-21
Woods Walker 31-Jul-21
Bowboy 31-Jul-21
blindgood 31-Jul-21
WV Mountaineer 31-Jul-21
Bowfreak 31-Jul-21
Grey Ghost 31-Jul-21
goyt 31-Jul-21
Tonybear61 31-Jul-21
wyobullshooter 31-Jul-21
Shug 31-Jul-21
Jaquomo 31-Jul-21
soccern23ny 31-Jul-21
TD 31-Jul-21
Castle Oak 01-Aug-21
Shug 01-Aug-21
GLP 01-Aug-21
Castle Oak 02-Aug-21
Shug 02-Aug-21
From: Shug
30-Jul-21
Let me preface by saying I’ve shot fingers with recurve 76-93 and fingers with compound 1993 till 3 days ago. The last couple of years with recurve till … again 3 days ago I’ve used a clicker and I never collapsed.

Multiple surgeries now have my hands going numb and I needed to start using a release.

I’ve had a few instances ( roughly 10 x ) in the last 3 days out of a few hundred shots while concentrating on squeezing I lost a little tension and collapsed completely…I’ve seen guys shooting a release do what I’ve called a double clutch where they collapsed a little bit then lock back it to anchor..

Let me also say the majority of my shooting has been at very close range as to try to ingrain the process.

Has anyone had a similar experience and I expecting too much after just a few days.

From: Matt
30-Jul-21
Squeeze with your back muscles (like crushing an egg between your shoulder blades) and not your finger, should largely clean it up.

From: Jaquomo
30-Jul-21
Yeah, the double-clutch is a form of target panic, where your subconscious doubts what your eyes are seeing, and does a forced reset. A release trainer called Firing Line really helped me with that.

Good luck and keep us posted. I may be trying a release with recurve soon. Arthritis in my three draw fingers after 55 years helped send me to a compound-release.

From: JL
31-Jul-21
It sounds as though you're draw length needs to be adjusted so that your wall is not so close to the cam rollover. Mine is like that.....not much distance between the wall and when the cam starts to reenter the rollover window. I would think you should be able comfortably stay in the left-off window.

From: carcus
31-Jul-21
I was having the same issue last year with my mathews vxr 31.5, I found the valley too small for me, I got a bow with more of a valley and concentrated on pulling through till the shot broke, problem solved

From: Mark S
31-Jul-21
As said above squeeze back/ shoulders as pronounced as you can. If you feel like you are anticipating the shot you may want to try a thumb release. Harder to punch trigger and lends itself to pulling thru shot and surprise release

From: Woods Walker
31-Jul-21
Matt X3.

From: Bowboy
31-Jul-21

Bowboy's Link
You might want to purchase a Nock On Back Strap release.

From: blindgood
31-Jul-21
The new high let off bows have a sudden let off into the valley. I went to compound probably 30-40 years ago. Bought a new bow last year and had that issue a few times. I shoot with a relaxed and slightly bent bow arm. The issue has gotten better. It really is just a lot of practice and conditioning (mental and physical). My little hicups came during league. Keep shooting and practice just on your form, not what you score. If you are able to shoot 100 arrows during a session it will cure itself quickly. I am 70 and when I practise I shoot until my body tells me enough. Make each shot a perfect shot. Work on form, form, form. Good luck , it will get better!!

31-Jul-21
Yes. It’s unfair to think you are going to be operating a release smooth after shooting fingers that long as your only release method. In other words, it’s getting familiar with the release causing it. And, nothing changes that except more practice.

What you described was how my exploits into compound shooting went after switching to a release. After only shooting a trad bow and compounds with fingers for 25 years. It was a rough summer.

I shot a hole through one of my dads retreads. And, I shot a hole in a v bottom aluminum boot. None were behind the target. Both were off to the side a ways. But, I’d collapse before release and those arrows went every where. Everyone thought it was funny until I started shooting holes in things.

From: Bowfreak
31-Jul-21
Make sure your front shoulder is down and move right to the target to build reps with the release. This is so new to you that you just need to get the feel of a proper release without introducing the stress of aiming.

From: Grey Ghost
31-Jul-21
Matt x4. If you use back tension to trigger the release, not your finger, collapsing won't be an issue.

Back in the day when I was a sponsored shooter, one of my shop duties was to help struggling archers on the line. For some reason, a large percentage of the guys who switched from fingers to release suffered from target panic in one form or another. Just stay positive and focus on the good shots. It will come around.

Matt

From: goyt
31-Jul-21
I had the same thing happening to me. What worked for me is to just concentrate on constantly pushing the bow at the target and pulling the release straight back. I will let my hands and wrists relax but not my shoulder and back. This seems to help with a cleaner release and a faster shot sequence. I also seem to be a lot solider maintaining the target. It was an instant cure for me.

From: Tonybear61
31-Jul-21
Older bows with long limbs, less let off and more brace height.

31-Jul-21
Matt x 5,, and carcus is spot on as well. Speed is a big seller and a short valley is one of the by-products that make them less user friendly. Using back tension and pulling through the shot, rather than squeezing the trigger, will certainly help.

One thing I recommend is keeping your finger behind the trigger until your pin is floating on the spot you want to hit. Once you’re settled in, then place your finger around the trigger and begin your back tension. That way, even on that rare occasion you start to collapse, you won’t send an arrow to parts unknown like Justin. lol!

From: Shug
31-Jul-21
Thanks guys….let me add this.

I believe it’s the occasional brain fart that causes it for me. I’m using back tension or should say trying to learn to use it to set off the trigger release…

I can feel the difference when it happens which is much more often than not.

I think it will be a learning process and I’m sure I’m just being a little harder on myself than should be…

Again thanks for the wonderful input.

From: Jaquomo
31-Jul-21
Definitely a learning process. I went through the same thing when I switched from a lifetime of finger shooting to a release. Perforated some things that didnt need to be perforated. Took awhile but I got past it.

From: soccern23ny
31-Jul-21
I do a double clutch every now and then. Even did it last year when I took a deer. Usually it's at the range after I fatigue a bit and am really trying to concentrate/relax for a shot. I would imagine maybe taking a half inch off my draw might help. But I think the real issue is to fully lock to the back while also relaxing for the shot

From: TD
31-Jul-21
All good advice, but I'd look into shortening the draw length a little as well. Moving to a release often changes your draw length with out changing the bow's, I know, went through the same thing a few years ago. Some releases change it more than others. Some can shorten up enough to make up for most of the difference. I like to use mostly back tension as mentioned above and the release nearly in my palm, trigger into the second knuckle.

When you shoot the same bow the same way for a long enough time you body also ingrains a muscle memory as to when to start to back off coming to anchor, pulling into a familiar wall,when and where you can relax, etc. New bow or a change to draw curve or mix in a change to draw length and your mind/muscle memory gets fooled, or at least lazy when you change your focus and relax a bit.

I know it's still a bit warm to be wearing jackets, but doing things like adding clothes or shooting from sitting down flat on your butt will show up draw length issues as well pretty quick. I've seen guys that pound arrows all day standing at the line not be able to hold full draw (or even get to full draw) sitting down on the ground.

From: Castle Oak
01-Aug-21
Shug, if you mentioned it I missed it-what type of release are you shooting? If it's wrist strap-trigger release it should be one that is adjustable for length and tension on the trigger. Back tension with a trigger is impossible if the trigger tension is light and the trigger is pulled with the the tip of your finger. So, set the trigger heavy and adjust the length so that you are engaging the trigger with the middle of your finger. Wrap your finger around the trigger and then squeeze those back muscles.

From: Shug
01-Aug-21

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
C/O ty it’s actually a wrist strap trigger finger type…I have it set so the trigger lays right here…

From: GLP
01-Aug-21
Shug, your on the right track.

From: Castle Oak
02-Aug-21
Shug, looks good to me. One more thing that helps with triggering with back tension is to have the wrist strap a bit loose so as you pull through the shot the strap "slips" just enough to move the trigger. Just a little trial and error and you'll have it down. When working on form, I always get up close to the target and shoot with my eyes closed or shoot at a large blank spot on the bail. That way I can concentrate on the portion of the shot that needs work. It will take some time to ingrain new habits so be patient. I usually start each shooting session up close and then I move out from there. If I even think I'm regressing, I move back to 10 yards with eyes closed. I had a terrible case of target panic developed over 30 years of bad shooting habits. It will occasionally rear it's ugly head but I can shoot targets and critters without the anxiety I once had. If you want some more resources hit me with a PM and I'll send them your way.

From: Shug
02-Aug-21

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
C/O… I always shot blank bale as much as at a distance 3-5 days a week keeping each part of the shot ingrained to muscle memory… I’m sure I’ll have to tweak the process now to include the “hook “ ( derogatory term for release)

I’ve found the most precise location for the trigger to sit that allows me set it to be set off easier as I start over pulling. When I’m on that location it’s 100% the easiest surprise shot for me… just have to ingrain it now.

Thanks again guys for all the support… I’m sure some of you can imagine what I’m going through after 45 years of finger shooting. One thing that seems to have cut the learning curve is having shot a clicker the last 30+ years

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