Moultrie Products
Prehistoric Bear Find
Bears
Contributors to this thread:
DL 14-Aug-21
JL 14-Aug-21
drycreek 14-Aug-21
Pat Lefemine 14-Aug-21
Zbone 14-Aug-21
MarkU 14-Aug-21
Glunker 14-Aug-21
Zbone 14-Aug-21
Huntcell 14-Aug-21
keepemsharp 14-Aug-21
buckhammer 15-Aug-21
[email protected] 15-Aug-21
Habitat 16-Aug-21
SteveB 16-Aug-21
ki-ke 16-Aug-21
HDE 16-Aug-21
WV Mountaineer 16-Aug-21
smarba 17-Aug-21
Scoot 17-Aug-21
Medicinemann 17-Aug-21
HDE 17-Aug-21
[email protected] 17-Aug-21
LINK 18-Aug-21
tobywon 18-Aug-21
smarba 18-Aug-21
SteveB 18-Aug-21
HDE 18-Aug-21
GF 18-Aug-21
HDE 18-Aug-21
cnelk 19-Aug-21
Animal 19-Aug-21
Animal 19-Aug-21
SteveB 19-Aug-21
TD 19-Aug-21
smarba 19-Aug-21
KSflatlander 19-Aug-21
Castle Oak 20-Aug-21
kentuckbowhnter 20-Aug-21
smarba 20-Aug-21
HDE 20-Aug-21
KSflatlander 20-Aug-21
HDE 21-Aug-21
tobywon 21-Aug-21
KSflatlander 21-Aug-21
LINK 21-Aug-21
HDE 21-Aug-21
KSflatlander 21-Aug-21
JL 21-Aug-21
HDE 22-Aug-21
KSflatlander 22-Aug-21
DL 22-Aug-21
HDE 23-Aug-21
smarba 23-Aug-21
LongbowGuy 03-Sep-21
orionsbrother 04-Sep-21
KSflatlander 04-Sep-21
HDE 04-Sep-21
TGbow 04-Sep-21
KSflatlander 04-Sep-21
orionsbrother 05-Sep-21
TGbow 05-Sep-21
Bill in MI 05-Sep-21
TGbow 05-Sep-21
From: DL
14-Aug-21

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
How’d you like to find this?

From: JL
14-Aug-21
That's cool.

From: drycreek
14-Aug-21
I don’t think he gonna make it………

From: Pat Lefemine
14-Aug-21
I hate it when they’re rubbed like that

From: Zbone
14-Aug-21
I take it that's Mongolia or somewhere over there...What's the story, what species, how prehistoric is it?

From: MarkU
14-Aug-21
Should see Rowdy with it soon.

From: Glunker
14-Aug-21
Was that a draw tag?

From: Zbone
14-Aug-21

Zbone's Link
Found a linky: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54160645

"the bear is thought to be a species of brown bear that lived 22,000 to 39,500 years ago."

From: Huntcell
14-Aug-21
The Kid on the right is happy "finally something for supper besides goat."

From: keepemsharp
14-Aug-21
Hard to believe something that old has hide on it?

From: buckhammer
15-Aug-21
Probably shot with a mechanical and just now recovered.

15-Aug-21
“ I hate it when they’re rubbed like that”

I spit out my drink

15-Aug-21
Cool!

From: Habitat
16-Aug-21
Thats about like finding the grizz skull in SC Kansas a couple years ago

From: SteveB
16-Aug-21
I laugh every time I see something like this. As cool as it is, there is NO WAY they could really have ANY idea how old that carcass is.

From: ki-ke
16-Aug-21
The Kid on the right is happy "finally something for supper besides goat."

Pist meself....

From: HDE
16-Aug-21
"...there is NO WAY they could really have ANY idea how old that carcass is."

Thought the same thing. The spread in years it could have lived is as many years old they say it is.

16-Aug-21
^^^^This^^^^

From: smarba
17-Aug-21
"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

From: Scoot
17-Aug-21
"...there is NO WAY they could really have ANY idea how old that carcass is."

Does that statement and the ones from those in agreement suggest you completely discount carbon dating? Just curious...

From: Medicinemann
17-Aug-21
With a half life of about 5,720-5,730 years, there is considerable room for significantly differing estimates of age. In this day and age of rapidly changing carbon footprints on the planet, I often wonder how accurate are the attempts to take such factors into consideration...?

From: HDE
17-Aug-21
"Does that statement and the ones from those in agreement suggest you completely discount carbon dating? Just curious..."

Carbon dating is a product of observation and experiment based on our modern timeframe and understanding over the past 300 years or so and aligns with what we know based on recorded history.

We assume what we have observed and quantified from observed data and experiment that it applies the same back through time beyond what we actually know.

What we use and understand for dating mechanisms are from a snapshot of the physical world throughout time.

17-Aug-21
A perfectly preserved Ice Age cave bear has been found in Russia -- even its nose is intact By Anna Chernova and Lianne Kolirin, CNN

Updated 11:34 AM ET, Mon September 14, 2020 All the bear's soft tissue is intact, including its internal organs. All the bear's soft tissue is intact, including its internal organs. (CNN)The perfectly preserved remains of an Ice Age cave bear have been discovered in the Russian Arctic -- the first example of the species ever to be found with soft tissues intact.

The astonishing find was made by reindeer herders on the Lyakhovsky Islands, which are part of the New Siberian islands archipelago in Russia's Far North. The bear could be as much as 39,500 years old.

Prior to this, only the bones of cave bears had been unearthed, but this specimen even had its nose intact, according to a team of scientists from the North-Eastern Federal University (NEFU) in Yakutsk, Siberia. The discovery is of "world importance," a leading Russian expert on extinct Ice Age species said.

A 14,000-year-old puppy, whose perfectly preserved body was found in Russia, munched on a woolly rhino for its last meal In a statement released by the university, scientist Lena Grigorieva said: "Today this is the first and only find of its kind -- a whole bear carcass with soft tissues. It is completely preserved, with all internal organs in place including even its nose. "Previously, only skulls and bones were found. This find is of great importance for the whole world." The adult animal was found by a group of reindeer herders, who then transferred the right to research the specimen to the NEFU, which is at the forefront of research into extinct woolly mammoths and rhinos.

According to the team, the cave bear (Ursus spelaeus) is a prehistoric species or sub-species that lived in Eurasia in the Middle and Late Pleistocene period and became extinct some 15,000 years ago. Preliminary analysis suggests the bear is between 22,000 and 39,500 years old. Maxim Cheprasov, senior researcher from the Mammoth Museum laboratory in Yakutsk, said in the statement: "It is necessary to carry out radiocarbon analysis to determine the precise age of the bear." Scientists have not yet been able to visit the site of the discovery -- the ancient carcass was found a long way from Yakutsk, which itself is more than 5,000 miles from Moscow. Significant discoveries, including mammoths, woolly rhinos, Ice Age foal, several puppies and cave lion cubs, have been made in Siberia in recent years as the permafrost melts.

From: LINK
18-Aug-21
Put me in the carbon dating is junk science camp. I am a young earther.

From: tobywon
18-Aug-21
I have a degree in Environmental Science and can end the whole carbon dating argument for everyone if I may. In my professional opinion, it's an old f-ing bear :)

From: smarba
18-Aug-21
Yep

From: SteveB
18-Aug-21
"Does that statement and the ones from those in agreement suggest you completely discount carbon dating? Just curious"...

YES!

From: HDE
18-Aug-21
tobywon - everything you know about carbon dating is based on observation from it's first discovery and use going forward assuming it works like that going back. The only way you can support the science is data and observation going forward to verify assumptions made projected to the past. You have no idea what phenomena may have happened in the past that may have affected carbon dating used today.

I'm with LINK on this one...

From: GF
18-Aug-21
So you guys are saying that the radioactive decay rates are likely to be variable over time…. Because…

Allllrighty, then!

I mean, feel free to fill in the blank there, if you have anything plausible.

From: HDE
18-Aug-21
"I mean, feel free to fill in the blank there, if you have anything plausible."

Depends. How do the decay rates of C-14 over the last 75 years compare to the prior 5,000 before that? Right, you can't because you don't have the data to present as evidence to back it...

From: cnelk
19-Aug-21
Died of Covid-19

From: Animal
19-Aug-21
What's really important is: 1) What does he score? 2) Would he have been bigger if given another year? Just curious.....

From: Animal
19-Aug-21
What's really important is: 1) What does he score? 2) Would he have been bigger if given another year? Just curious.....

From: SteveB
19-Aug-21
"So you guys are saying that the radioactive decay rates are likely to be variable over time…. Because… I mean, feel free to fill in the blank there, if you have anything plausible".

No, I am saying that I just don't give any credibility to the original carbon dating scale. I find it hilarious that anyone could believe that it is accurate being that we only have (somewhat) accurate environmental records for a few hundred years. I feel exactly the same way about climate change. Impossible to know, and we can only measure what we know for certain.

From: TD
19-Aug-21
"I thought you'd be bigger....."

From: smarba
19-Aug-21
Yeah, talk about ground shrinkage. I thought those cave bears were like 8,000 pounds and 27 feet tall?

From: KSflatlander
19-Aug-21
“With a half life of about 5,720-5,730 years, there is considerable room for significantly differing estimates of age. In this day and age of rapidly changing carbon footprints on the planet, I often wonder how accurate are the attempts to take such factors into consideration...?“

That carbon-14 does have a half-life of -5700 years but that doesn’t mean that’s the level of accuracy. For example, if someone ran the mile and you knew how long it took them to get halfway and their pace was constant, then you could calculate at anytime where they would be on the track by time or their time based on where they are on the track. The rate of carbon-14 decay is constant and that’s a scientific fact. The amount of atmospheric carbon-14 may change relatively slightly over time but the error it would cause is negligible when trying to figure out how many thousands of years old a carbon-based life form is.

Pretty cool find that well preserved.

From: Castle Oak
20-Aug-21
It's hard to find a "scientist" that will acknowledge true facts concerning the age of earth. The eruption of Mount St. Helens forever altered how objective scientists view the age of our planet. According to those willing to admit it, the eruption and all that followed over the following months appeared to be thousands of years old when compared to other studied sites. According to the my source, God's Word, our planet is only 6000 years old.

20-Aug-21
Castle, it is truly amazing that dinosaurs roamed the earth just 6000 or so years ago.

From: smarba
20-Aug-21
What's even more amazing kentuckbow is that T-Rex soft tissue can apparently last 68-million years...

From: HDE
20-Aug-21
The rate of decay for C-14 is constant relative to the timeframe in which we have observed it since its discovered use in 1948.

That's the fact...

From: KSflatlander
20-Aug-21
The Middle Ages called and they want their science books back.

From: HDE
21-Aug-21
^^^ And?

From: tobywon
21-Aug-21
Who needs books when we have Bowsite!!!…..:)

From: KSflatlander
21-Aug-21
If you believe that no sound is made when a tree falls in the forest and your not around then you do you.

God also gave us self awareness, consciousness, free will, and critical thinking skills.

Cool story. Awesome find.

Carry on.

From: LINK
21-Aug-21
“ it is truly amazing that dinosaurs roamed the earth just 6000 or so years ago.”

I know right. That was just slightly before my gran pappies, grand pas, great great mother’s, fathers, grand pa came across on the may flower. Makes it hard to believe dinosaurs could have been around 5600 years before that. ;)

From: HDE
21-Aug-21
KSflat - a tree falls and no one is around a sound isn't made, it's just compressed airwaves. Sound is a function of the workings of the outer, middle, and inner ear to tell your brain it's a sound.

Glad you're recognizing God's hand in things. Imagine how little we know beyond what we have observed...

From: KSflatlander
21-Aug-21
LMAO. How do you know the “compressed waves” were there if you didn’t observe them? I mean your point was if WE didn’t observe it then the laws of physics and chemistry constants are non-existent or change. So much for quantum physics. Do you believe gravity is constant universally and over time?

From: JL
21-Aug-21

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
Some of the pics.....

From: HDE
22-Aug-21
"LMAO. How do you know the “compressed waves” were there if you didn’t observe them? I mean your point was if WE didn’t observe it then the laws of physics and chemistry constants are non-existent or change. So much for quantum physics. Do you believe gravity is constant universally and over time?"

Compressed air waves through observation and measurement in experiment. Same can be said for the way it is interpreted as sound by the brain.

The laws of physics and properties in chemistry known to us are from our observation in our timeframe since it's discovery. The assumption is made for C-14 dating is based on modern observation, experiment, and the mathematical representation from that data.

What's even more "LMAO" is being lectured by a guy who voted for the worst failure of a POTUS of all time. That's a fact...

From: KSflatlander
22-Aug-21
That’s not fact, that’s opinion but at least your consistent.

From: DL
22-Aug-21
That last picture reminds me of my 5th grade teacher. She was a beast. Been watching a program called Dinohunter. Love it. Ranchers in Montana, Wyoming and New Mexico looking for fossil remains of T Rex or any others they can find

From: HDE
23-Aug-21
"That’s not fact, that’s opinion but at least your consistent."

With...?

From: smarba
23-Aug-21
I'm pretty sure it's a fact...

From: LongbowGuy
03-Sep-21
Can’t they just pull a tooth to get the age? That’s what they do with mammals now?

04-Sep-21
KS “ Do you believe gravity is constant universally and over time? “

Sorry to go science dweeb on you flatlander, but the acceleration due to gravity varies slightly on this planet. It is not constant universally.

And gravity constant over time? How about time constant over gravity? Gravitational time dilation?!?

Gotta have a couple of beers if we’re going junior Einstein.

Carbon dating has its limitations, but it’s better than sniffing something and making an estimate like my wife does with leftovers.

From: KSflatlander
04-Sep-21
“The gravitational constant, denoted by the letter G, is an empirical physical constant involved in the calculation of gravitational effects in Sir Isaac Newton's law of universal gravitation and in Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity.“

The point was that there are universal physical constants including calculating the gravitational pull of objects based on mass. There are also other universal constants like the decay of carbon 14 to nitrogen 14 in relation to time. Speed of light is another. There is absolutely no evidence that those things change over time. But I’m sure know and understand this.

Agreed that carbon dating is better than guessing.

From: HDE
04-Sep-21
The problem with any form (radioactive decay) dating is you have to know the beginning amounts of both parent and daughter atoms for it to mean anything. Without that, pissing on a spark plug is just as accurate...

From: TGbow
04-Sep-21
Link: "Put me in the carbon dating is junk science camp. I am a young earther."

Me too

From: KSflatlander
04-Sep-21
Lol that make total sense. If you think man walked with the dinosaurs then this exchange is futile.

HDE- there is a calibration curve and it has been tested and proven to be relatively accurate. It’s not perfect but in scientific tests it’s pretty reliable.

You two “believe” whatever you want if it makes you feel better. Science could care less what you believe. Human knowledge and understanding of the universal will continue with or without you. That’s the beauty of it…evidence is required.

05-Sep-21
“ Do you believe gravity is constant universally and over time? “

From: KSflatlander 04-Sep-21 “The gravitational constant, denoted by the letter G, is an empirical physical constant involved in the calculation of gravitational effects in Sir Isaac Newton's law of universal gravitation and in Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity.“ The point was that there are universal physical constants including calculating the gravitational pull of objects based on mass. There are also other universal constants like the decay of carbon 14 to nitrogen 14 in relation to time. Speed of light is another. There is absolutely no evidence that those things change over time. But I’m sure know and understand this.

Your Wikipedia is strong. However, the gravitational constant is different than gravity. It’s used to calculate the force of gravity which varies with mass.

“ Do you believe gravity is constant universally and over time? “

Gravity is not constant despite the gravity constant used to calculate its force.

Pi is constant and I can use it to calculate the area of my pie, but pie is not constant. It is temporary.

From: TGbow
05-Sep-21
Science also teaches evolutuon in most circkes..but I dont have enough faith to believenin that. I dont think they really know how old it is. They use to think the world was flat at one time but thats since been proven wrong

From: Bill in MI
05-Sep-21
1) cool find and it's very old 2) who says the creative 'day' in Genesis is a 24 hour period? "In the day of my forefathers' is one of many alternative uses of the word YOM in aramaic. Another interpretation within the bible itself 2 Peter 3:8. The point being you don't have to believe in a 6000 year old creative process if you limit yourself to a narrow interpretation of the word 'day'. 3)Considering we can set infinitely accurate clocks by studying the resonance frequency of atoms, I think we can put to bed that radioactive decay is pretty damn consistent. 4)By accident or design will never be argued successfully when you have faith in contrast to science. But you must consider we don't have all the pieces on either side of the coin. Our understanding of the universe increases over time.

From: TGbow
05-Sep-21
i believe Genisis, but, as mentioned above, we dont know all the details..I personally believe the earth was already created in Genesis 1. Dont really matter to me anyway. I know it would be something to find a prehistoric animal. Remember few yrs back they found the Ice Man and his bow. Awsome

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