Moultrie Products
Rage and Pronghorn buck
Pronghorn
Contributors to this thread:
[email protected] 17-Aug-21
bowhunter24 18-Aug-21
midwest 18-Aug-21
cnelk 18-Aug-21
W 18-Aug-21
Slate 18-Aug-21
[email protected] 18-Aug-21
Treeline 18-Aug-21
Buffalo1 18-Aug-21
smarba 18-Aug-21
MT Livin' 18-Aug-21
Treeline 18-Aug-21
[email protected] 18-Aug-21
longbeard 18-Aug-21
Huntcell 18-Aug-21
APauls 18-Aug-21
Nick Muche 18-Aug-21
Julius Koenig 18-Aug-21
Thornton 18-Aug-21
Thornton 18-Aug-21
BULELK1 19-Aug-21
INbowdude 19-Aug-21
Old School 19-Aug-21
StickFlicker 25-Aug-21
Bowfreak 25-Aug-21
StickFlicker 25-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 25-Aug-21
[email protected] 25-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 25-Aug-21
t-roy 25-Aug-21
midwest 25-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 25-Aug-21
t-roy 25-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 25-Aug-21
Willieboat 25-Aug-21
Willieboat 25-Aug-21
midwest 26-Aug-21
Will 26-Aug-21
Grey Ghost 26-Aug-21
[email protected] 26-Aug-21
Will 26-Aug-21
smarba 26-Aug-21
Will 30-Aug-21
SteveB 30-Aug-21
Old Reb 30-Aug-21
17-Aug-21

Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
I used a Rage 2 bld, 100 gr, Hypodermic (with collar) mechanical bh for this year's Pronghorn hunt. THe shot was high ( I shot high or the buck dropped or both at 30 yards) but the BH punctured through the rear of the shoulder blade, and severed the spine above the shoulder. The buck dropped in its tracks. Examining the BH, there was no damage to the tip but one blade was slightly bent out an down some, and it had a few dents on the sharp side the blade. Flight of the arrow at launch, as expected, was field point accuracy. The other blade received no damage except the sharpness was compromised. Just replacing the blades would put this BH back in action.

I killed my Coues deer buck with a mechanical this January, and now this Pronghorn buck. I will be using a fixed VPA bh for elk next month.

From: bowhunter24
18-Aug-21
Well done again sir!

From: midwest
18-Aug-21
Atta buddy, Paul!

From: cnelk
18-Aug-21
Good deal Paul - Did you have to shoot him again?

From: W
18-Aug-21
That’s nice.

I had poor penetration from that same head on a whitetail doe, but an incredible blood trail. That head bounced off the next doe I shot at. Buddy killed her a few weeks later. You could see the old wound. The shot couldn’t have been placed any better. Back to slick triks for me.

From: Slate
18-Aug-21
I have had nothing but great results with RAGE. Only the second broadhead I have ever used.

18-Aug-21
BK, I did not have to shoot him again. After the hit, he reared up on his back legs, gave out a loud grunt, and fell to the ground without another movement. A 30-30 rifle could not have done better. Per the BH, I made sure the collar was rotated property so the blade was not in the groove of the collar. I under stand if the collar is not attracted properly the blades can deploy premature effecting flight and penetration. I will still stick to fixed BHs for deer and elk but was curious about using a mechanical for Coues and Pronghorn.

From: Treeline
18-Aug-21
Bigger holes are always better in my book, although I am not going to try to use a mechanical to get it with my bow setups.

Was, and still am, a big fan of the old school Snuffer glue on broadheads in the heavier weights (145 gr and up). They are almost 1 1/2” diameter. That extra mass up front and no energy wasted to flop the blades open helps penetration and the bigger ones were tough enough to hold up for critters up to moose. They tried to make smaller weight ones by removing more metal to get down to 125 and 150 screw ins and those were just too flimsy. Killed stuff with them but usually trashed the head.

The 1 1/4”, 3-blade VPA’s have performed very well for me lately. They are solid and much stronger than the old Snuffers. Have used both the 200 and 250 grain points. Although I have had complete pass thrus on deer, antelope and elk with the 200 grain 1 1/4” VPA, I really like the profile of the 250 grain and the 300 grain is even better for penetration.

Three blades tend to leave a standing open hole that puts a lot of blood on the ground.

If I shot a compound, I would set up and tune my arrows around 300 grain point weight and probably shoot the 300 grain, 1 1/4”, VPA 3-blade for about everything from Coues to moose.

Would consider 300 grain, single bevel 2-blades for bison, buffalo, elephant, hippos or other big-boned critters. A big 2-blade off a compound would certainly take any guess work out of elk killing. I would expect complete penetration, end to end, through an elk including busting the shoulder blades or even a femur if it got in the way of that kind of arrow setup…

Still cannot understand why most compound shooters are so hung up on ultra-light broadheads and arrows…

From: Buffalo1
18-Aug-21
Tree line I think a lot of hunters are more consumed with “speed” rather than “momentum”.

From: smarba
18-Aug-21

smarba's embedded Photo
smarba's embedded Photo
smarba's embedded Photo
smarba's embedded Photo
Paul I killed my buck last year nearly exact same shot placement with Viper Trick. Dropped like a stone and dead after a few kicks. Broadhead looked like new afterward too, so maybe I should start a parallel thread "Viper Trick and a Pronghorn Buck"? LOL

From: MT Livin'
18-Aug-21
nice job Paul, contrary to alot of what is written against that broadhead, I have had good success on multiple species of animals using it. Use what you are confident with

From: Treeline
18-Aug-21
With the energy transfer efficiency to an arrow by a modern compound, it is shocking to see such limited penetration on game animals.

A compound bow is very easy to tune to different arrow systems and most people have sight pins to provide aiming points for longer shots.

Although more speed allows for less error in range estimation, those light weight arrows can hurt penetration and add to the noise of the shot. They are also harder to tune for broadheads due to the high velocity - causing people to go to the mechanical heads that provide better accuracy for the light spine/light mass arrows.

A heavier arrow and broadhead system will be easier to tune and provides a lot of advantages in hunting situations. Quieter off the bow and increased penetration. With the right kind of broadhead, bones are not an issue for even a large animal like an elk.

With sight pins to allow for arrow drop, why wouldn’t compound bowhunters flock to heavier arrow setups that would be more lethal even when the impact on the animal is less than perfect?

18-Aug-21
Carl, I have used COC BH for years. Killed the Colorado big 8 using NAP 125 gr Thunderheads. My favorite now is the VPA 125 for compound and a 175 VPA for my stick.

Trying out the mechanicals, "just to see and test" for my own research, but will stick to COC for elk and others. Yep, no tracking when they fall in place. Thanks for the reply and pic. Paul

From: longbeard
18-Aug-21
Way to go Paul. Dead is dead. Nothing else to be done!! Congrats.

From: Huntcell
18-Aug-21
“”Flight of the arrow at launch, as expected, was field point accuracy.””

Hmmmmm!!!!!

“THe shot was high ( I shot high or the buck dropped or both“

From: APauls
18-Aug-21
Congrats Paul! Both on the buck and being open minded :)

Treeline, as you've surmised modern day compounds have more than ample energy to achieve required penetration. The largest problem a bowhunter has isn't usually achieving desired penetration it's more of getting an arrow into the heart/lungs of said animal. That's why most of us wheelie hunters will place more emphasis on maximizing the ability to hit the animal where it counts while still having enough jam to get it done. All the penetration achieved beyond a pass through is uselessly wasted energy. Why not take that energy and tighten your pin gaps and give the animal less time to respond? Makes you more accurate, and the animal has less time to move. Two ways to make sure the arrow gets to the right spot.

In contrast to shooting a trad bow (the limited amount I have) basically all that matters is noise and penetration. A trad bow is so slow in comparison that it really doesn't matter if you drop 30 fps from 170fps to 140fps. Either way, if a deer hears the shot, they can turn around at 20 yards, flip you the bird and watch the arrow impact where they were standing. Then laugh and bound away.

With a quiet compound, I feel like it's next to impossible for a deer to duck me at 20. Any additional speed achieved takes that "impossible" range from 20 to maybe 23 or 25 yards? Besides, once the arrow gets there, it's still going to do the trick.

As for Paul's buck. It stopped, flopped and rolled. Would it be cool to cut the spine in half, and then exit the ham? I guess so, but seeing as his shot was a smidge high, one can surmise that the buck may have dropped at the shot? Add 300 grains to that arrow, and if the buck was truly dropping that arrow with reduced velocity is over the back. All the peno in the world won't help you if all you've got is air to penetrate :)

In this case, the speed may have made the difference from having an antelope to take home to not having one. And dead is dead. He had ample peno to spine the bugger. There's simply no denying the massive blood loss from wider cut mechanicals, or aded advantage in a gut hit. They are worse on a shoulder for sure though.

For me, in the cost/benefit analysis I'd give up my extra penetration, or my "worst case" penetration in favour of increasing my odds of hitting the right goods in the first place. but that is a personal decision to every hunter.

From: Nick Muche
18-Aug-21
+1 APauls!

I've been shooting 400 or less grain arrows for about 5 years now, 99% of the time with a mechanical of some sort on the end. They work really well for me and the way I hunt/shoot when I do my part and make an accurate shot. I've lost more animals with a fixed blade head and a recurve in the last 3 years than I have with a compound in 10. That has nothing to do with the equipment, but it absolutely has to do with accuracy.

18-Aug-21
Congrats Paul!

From: Thornton
18-Aug-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Same spot I shot mine with a Rage this year. My buck ran a long ways though.

From: Thornton
18-Aug-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: BULELK1
19-Aug-21
Well done Paul-------->

Some good looking Bucks fella's,

Robb

From: INbowdude
19-Aug-21
Congrats, Paul!

From: Old School
19-Aug-21
Congrats Paul!

From: StickFlicker
25-Aug-21
Congratulations Paul. However, I think you're giving too little credit to the abilities of the Rage Hypodermic. I have shot elk and numerous large African plains game with the broadhead, and they perform great. Most recently a couple of weeks ago I shot a Gemsbok, that is near the size of an elk and probably a "wider" animal. He ran 37 yards before crashing to the ground dead. I too was nervous the first time I used an expandable on larger game, but they really do perform well. The +P version has a slightly swept-back blade, and I think that might be better for the bigger animals, but so far I've just used the standard version with very good results. I've shot a few very large mule deer, elk, Zebra, Gemsbok, Blue Wildebeest, Waterbuck, Hartebeest and numerous others with them without any performance problems.

From: Bowfreak
25-Aug-21
Stickflicker,

Have you shot the Hypo NC?

From: StickFlicker
25-Aug-21
I have not. I still have a number of the old style left to shoot first. My hunting partner in Africa earlier this month used the NC +P Hypodermic with good results. He was very happy with them and shot Kudu and Wildebeest with very short death runs.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Aug-21
I’m not sure if this thread is intended to praise or criticize the broadhead used. Yeah, I know, the buck died, so who cares, right? That said, I wouldn’t be happy with that performance.

Matt

25-Aug-21
Matt, the intention of this thread was to show my current experience with a mechanical BH ( happened to be a Rage) and its performance. , a BH type I usually have not used for any big game animal but I was willing to give it a go. Was not intended to praise or criticize. I do believe regardless, if the BH had been this mechanical or a fixed BH, the results would have been the same considering the shot placement. I was happy with the performance and was glad I tried this brand of mechanical.

So what performance were you not be happy with?

From: Grey Ghost
25-Aug-21
Paul,

Fair enough. In my experience, pronghorns aren’t extremely tough animals. I had a friend who mistakenly used a field tip to kill one once. So, choice of heads isn’t too critical.

However, if you make the same hit on an elk, with that same head, I think you’re going to be disappointed in the outcome.

I don’t mean to offend the mechanical fan boys. Like you, I gave them a honest try, and went back to fixed blades after a few bad experiences with them.

Matt

From: t-roy
25-Aug-21
Matt…..Do you think if you had used a Rage (or another mechanical) on your LE Colorado bull last year, given the shot placement, he would have died more quickly and you would have recovered him faster, than what ended up happening?……Honest question.

BTW….I’m not a mechanical fanboy by any stretch, but after the results on my grizzly hunt, I’m coming around!

From: midwest
25-Aug-21
Troy, the rules are....

If the animal is hit with a mechanical and not recovered, it's the broadhead's fault. If the animal is hit with a fixed blade and not recovered, it's the shooter's fault.

If the animal is hit with a fixed blade and recovered, the shooter made a good shot. If the animal is hit with a mechanical and is recovered, the shooter is lucky.

;-)

From: Grey Ghost
25-Aug-21
T-Roy,

I think a liver hit on a elk is going to be a tough recovery no matter what head you use. In that unfortunate situation, I’d rather have the arrow pass thru, instead of it acting like a whip to make the animal keep running.

Matt

From: t-roy
25-Aug-21
Assuming it didn’t pass through, or if it didn’t, possibly doing even more damage internally, as it slices and dices away, while the animal runs off.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Aug-21
If an arrow doesn’t pass thru on a liver hit, I’m not using it. Similar to a high shoulder hit on a pronghorn.

The debate will linger, but I’ve made my mind up, without doubt, after using both.

Don’t get me wrong. Mechanicals have their place for some. Just not in my quiver.

Matt.

From: Willieboat
25-Aug-21

Willieboat's embedded Photo
And this is what I like about a rage
Willieboat's embedded Photo
And this is what I like about a rage

From: Willieboat
25-Aug-21
Above photo is a pass through shot on a mature 6 point last fall. I’m starting to become a believer after a few years of use. I’m kinda picky about shot selection and get devastating results.

Congrats on the Goat Paul

From: midwest
26-Aug-21
I doubt there are many setups that are going to get a pass through on a shoulder blade and into the spine on a quartering to pronghorn. Smarba didn't with his fixed blade Viper Trick which is only a 1-1/16" wide head with bleeders.

From: Will
26-Aug-21
I ask the age old question. Why bother with a mechanical for a 1/4-1/2 inch additional cutting width. A fingernail wider and a weaker blade that might not give you a hole in both sides for a blood trail. I have shot 3 Mule Deer over 60 yds with a Slick Trick Magnum and 2 of them went about 10 yds and the other dropped in sight. Fixed doesn't open by tapping brush. ST's fly same and in my case better than FP's. No brainer for me. KISS

From: Grey Ghost
26-Aug-21
Paul and Smarba,

Just curious, does the angle of the arrows in your pics represent the shot angle? They both look like hard quartering to shots. Was that the case?

Matt

26-Aug-21

Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
I would expect the angle of the arrow does represent the angle of the hit when the arrow arrived and the actual position of the animal at that same time. As seen in the picture, the buck had it's head down, body arched down and forward and quartering to the right. In the second it took the arrow to travel 30 yards, the buck may have turned, may have dropped some, I may have just shot high or a combination of all of these. When viewed from my position, it looked liked a good shot angle, not broadside but also not too head on. End of story. Paul

From: Will
26-Aug-21
Paul congrats! Beautiful Pronghorn you got there! (I'm a different Will from the one above , no idea how there are two of us on bowsite)

From: smarba
26-Aug-21
GG my shot was hard quartering to at relatively close range. I was confident my arrow would penetrate to vitals, but not surprised it didn't pass through. I took this shot on a pronghorn, but would not have done so on an elk.

In slow-mo the buck did begin to drop slightly, but not more than 1"-2". M y arrows are 30" long, so there's at least 20" of penetration into lungs. I did not expect him to drop like a stone, but I'll take it. I killed another pronghorn this year nearly same shot and he ran maybe 80-yards and laid down and died.

From: Will
30-Aug-21
Great shot

From: SteveB
30-Aug-21
Nice in all regards Paul....congrats and thanks for sharing!

From: Old Reb
30-Aug-21
Congrats Paul, thanks for sharing your story. Don't let the nay sayers tarnish your hunt.

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