Biden to Force Feed Covid Vaccinations
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From: Bowfreak
09-Sep-21

Bowfreak's Link
If you are a federal worker or work in a place that employs more than 100 people, you're going to be mandated to get the vaccine per Commandant Biden.

2024 can't get here soon enough.

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
That SOB is gonnna have a fight on his hands

09-Sep-21
You are safer recovered than you are vaccinated and never infected. So if Biden forces vaccination shouldn't proof of recovery be enough?

From: SBH
09-Sep-21
^^^^^THIS

From: elkmtngear
09-Sep-21
^^^x3 !!

09-Sep-21
To be frank, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are wringing their hands about being forced to get a COVID vaccine, but I think it's a reasonable alternative to show a + antibody blood screen. I mean, it certainly makes sense enough to at least be a compromise.

From: SBH
09-Sep-21
How come all of a sudden there is zero attention to the way our bodies were designed to build antibodies after getting sick....not even talked about. You have to be vaccinated. Period. End of story. If they were truly all about herd immunity and moving forward, those numbers would be considered and added in with all of the vaccinated. There would some good news to report as lots of people have had the virus already and have the antibodies. But nope! Not with this clown show of an administration.

From: SBH
09-Sep-21
Ike we musta been posting at the same time! Appreciate your level headedness on this. Any ideas on why it's being discounted?

From: Rut Nut
09-Sep-21
And yet the WHITE HOUSE staff are NOT mandated to get the vaccine .....................AND they refuse to even disclose the %age of WH Staff who are vaccinated! : (

Never thought this could happen in a FREE Country!

From: RK
09-Sep-21
Who are the 81 million that voted for this Moron? Seriously, they seem to be pretty damn quiet

From: elkmtngear
09-Sep-21
Before they knew the vaccines would be available, Fauci was talking about creating "immune certificates", for those with antibodies, who had recovered.

That seemed to go right out the window, when the vaccines became available. They are using them as a weapon, for control...plain and simple!

Showing my antibody count should have as much (or more) value, as a "vaccine certificate".

09-Sep-21
No. That's why I think it's a reasonable alternative. There is the issue with waning antibody effectiveness over time, but there hasn't been any good studies to really quantify that. We do know that getting COVID is slightly better than getting the vaccine as far as getting it again AND being hospitalized/dying, but we don't know for how long.

So, I guess it's just assuming the worst.

From: JL
09-Sep-21
Me thinks if a person shows proof of antibodies, that should suffice. If the govt (Biden) attempts to force people to get the shots.....I can see some lawsuits coming. I doubt the ACLU would want to touch this...although I could be wrong.

09-Sep-21
And if a study does eventually come out that shows that getting COVID gives you long-standing protection against hospitalization and death, they're gonna end up with mud on their face again, just like when they said that wearing masks was not necessary before studies came out showing that they do indeed help reduce transmission.

I really wonder if anyone on the decision making team considered that.

09-Sep-21
Really Ike? You don't have sympathy for the government forcing you to put something into your body? What other freedoms are you ok giving up because the government deems it necessary I don't care if a disease has a 50% mortality rate. To force people to do this is wrong, goes against everything America has stood for since its inception and plain should scare the crap out of people.

From: BowenAero
09-Sep-21
The child sniffer and all of the demoncrates can kiss my ass.

From: 2Wild Bill
09-Sep-21
Justin,

No fear of God and no fear of government go hand in hand.

It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

09-Sep-21

DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo
DiRTY MiKE 's embedded Photo

From: TJS
09-Sep-21
It's not pleasant to be told you have to do something. Polio and other devastating health issues have disappeared because of vaccines. This is a health and science issue, not a political issue. I assume many do not personally know people who lost the covid battle. Most, if not all had to get vaccines to get to kindergarten.

09-Sep-21
FWIW… my 48 year old cousin and his wife were vaccinated and both came down with Covid a few weeks ago. It was rough on him and took around 2 weeks to recover. He’s in good shape also.

Sometimes I feel we aren’t getting the true numbers of who is contracting Covid… vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. It’s almost comparable to people who were duped by scent-loc and would go to the edge of earth to defend their over priced product.

Ike… can you give me factual info on vaccinated people that get Covid being “less sick” or “recover quicker”?

By the way, I contracted it back in late July. It took me about 11 days to get well. Not 100% but well enough to get back to routine and doing day to day. Today, I feel 100%.

From: Ben
09-Sep-21
This entire administration with Nancy and Chuck all need to be removed NOW! I write at least one and some times more emails each night to these imbeciles and I hope the rest of you are harassing them too! We need Trump back bad!

From: Ben
09-Sep-21
Don't let Afghanistan die as they are trying to change subjects away from it as they are neglecting the Americans left there and don't want to talk about it.

From: Lawdy
09-Sep-21
Abortion kills unborn human beings, population control and many love it. Not getting vaccinated does the same thing. I don’t understand why these same people don’t embrace it, again, population control.

09-Sep-21
Are they making the illegal Mexicans get vaccinated? The Afghanies?

From: Lawdy
09-Sep-21
I was selling raffle tickets for our annual firemen’s association when I watched the local parish priest buy a handgun. He bought a ticket and showed us the Glock he carries while performing Mass. these are crazy times.

From: drycreek
09-Sep-21
4nolz, the answer to that is hell no ! The infected aliens are pouring over the border as we type. I don’t know about the Afghans, but one thing I’d bet big dollars on (if it could be proven) is that there are terrorists among them.

09-Sep-21
How safe and effective the vaccine is or isn't has little bearing whether or not it's OK for the government to force it on citizens.

09-Sep-21
Great. An experimental drug becoming mandatory. And make no mistake, these vaccines are experimental. Most FDA approved drugs are tested for 12-14 years. Could this be “The Mark” we’ve all read about at some point in our lives?

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
There is nothing compromising about violating our constitutional rights

From: Bowfreak
09-Sep-21
I can't believe the number of people that are perfectly ok with giving up their freedoms so easily.

I've been vaccinated. I think it is the best choice for me and my family, but I am 100% against being forced to do so.

From: JohnMC
09-Sep-21
I am vaccinated and probably do it again if had to it over again because I think the data is there that you are taking much less risk getting the shot than not getting it. With that said the government mandating it is almost enough to make me a anti-vaxer. The risk that concerns me is not from the vaccine but from a government that can require it people to get and a population that will go along with it.

From: bigswivle
09-Sep-21
LOL, good luck

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
Bowfreak: "I can't believe the number of people that are perfectly ok with giving up their freedoms so easily. I've been vaccinated. I think it is the best choice for me and my family, but I am 100% against being forced to do so"

Exactly. Unfortunately we have enough sheep that will go along with it.

09-Sep-21
"You don't have sympathy for the government forcing you to put something into your body?"

I said I don't have much sympathy for people wringing their hands over it. Honestly, I think everyone should get the vaccine by choice. As far as people upset about being forced to, no, I don't really care.

"What other freedoms are you ok giving up because the government deems it necessary..."

Speed limits. Childhood vaccinations for schools. Not allowing people to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons. Not allowing drinking and driving. Etc. There's a host of things I'm ok with the government saying you have to do or cannot do that are related to public safety and the well-being of the country.

During WWII, we had a National speed limit of 25mph. It was called "Freedom Speed," or something like that. During crises that affect us all, I believe that we need to pull together as a country and take one for the team, even if that means getting a shot that will protect you from a disease that you will most likely not die from. I got my shots willingly and the booster, not because I was worried about the disease, but because I practice what I preach.

"Ike… can you give me factual info on vaccinated people that get Covid being “less sick” or “recover quicker”?"

I can give you studies that show that they foster less virus in their nasal passages than unvaccinated people and I can give you studies that show that they're less likely to be hospitalized or die. That's the data that are out.

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
If the leftist Democrats and the Neocon Republicrats get their way, we will be a full blown Marxist nation. We already half way their. Its been going on for years but it is definitely escalating now

09-Sep-21
"Abortion kills unborn human beings, population control and many love it. Not getting vaccinated does the same thing. I don’t understand why these same people don’t embrace it, again, population control."

If the country were to vote that abortion were to be banned so long as a National vaccine mandate went into affect and you didn't support that law, then your argument sort of falls flat. No one gets to have their cake and eat it too.

And FTR, I never said I was in favor of government vaccine mandates nor masking mandates. I just said that I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that are upset about it and the reason for that is that I'm not one of those people that doesn't want a vaccine and I think they're a reasonable thing to get. So I feel that if you don't want a vaccine, it's generally because of erroneous reasons, so I'm unsympathetic to your plight and the Government has nothing to do with my feelings.

FWIW, I feel the country should be opened back up and people should choose whether or not they wear a mask or not, get a vaccine or not, and that it should be left up to individual companies to decide whether or not they allow people to patronize their facilities without a vaccine and/or mask.

It's going to end up that ways eventually anyways, we're just dragging it out at this point.

From: AZ8
09-Sep-21
I guess the 10th Amendment is lost on Xiden.

Besides, I thought they believed in science? Why are they striving for 100% vaccination? Where is the control group? If everyone is vaccinated, how will you discern any problems with the vaccine?

There’s gonna be a lot of people unemployed pretty soon as companies over the 100 employee threshold begin laying off people to get under 100. Xiden’s employment destruction carries on!

From: JohnMC
09-Sep-21
Idy said "Speed limits. Childhood vaccinations for schools. Not allowing people to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons. Not allowing drinking and driving. Etc."

Those were laws passed through legislation not something pulled out of a hat by the POTUS or a governor. FYI...What Biden did today is 1000 times more tyrannical than anything Trump ever attempted.

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
?? John

09-Sep-21
JohnMC, while I think you added a little bit of hyperbole, I agree with you.

From: AZ8
09-Sep-21

AZ8's embedded Photo
AZ8's embedded Photo
Kudos to the Nebraska Governor. This is why I stated the 10th Amendment earlier. Every Governor needs to make a similar statement.

From: Norseman
09-Sep-21
What if you work from home for a 100+ employee company?

Why doesn’t the Government just look at our medical files to see who’s vaccinated? Oh yeah…forgot about that little right. Bite me, Biden

From: TGbow
09-Sep-21
Right on to the governor of Nebraska!

From: JL
09-Sep-21
My younger bro got his 3rd shot last week. He was a little down over the weekend but is back up.

From: Tonybear61
09-Sep-21
Johns Hopkins, Cleveland, Israeli peer-reviewed studies all show that immunity from having the disease protects better than the vaccine. I did not see any reference to exclusions due to religious beliefs, pre-existing immunity protection, advice from Dr. /Patient relationships, much less feedback from any labor/union group, trades groups, health care workers or the millions who supposedly voted for this non-physician, non-scientist.

Years ago when I went back to the public sector working at a university they tried to tell me I needed additional vaccines-for diseases I had as a child or received vaccines for many decades ago. My physician said no, I also said no and filed as a conscientious objector.

"It's my body my rights", what happened to that position in the land of the free???

Not an anti-vaxer but its damn well a decision between you and you physician. If your an anti-vax due to some stupid misinformation on the internet-agin better talk to your doctor, they can likely provide reassurance.

Fauci is a piece of work, the new docs out on him seem to indicate he knew all about gain of function in Wuhan, public grant funding and he has a lot to answer for.

From: SDHNTR(home)
09-Sep-21
100% in agreement with the benefit of vaccines. 100% not in agreement with it being mandated. But let’s be fair here… the Biden deal today stated companies with over 100 employees require vax OR weekly testing. So there is still an option. I’m no Biden supporter, but let’s not conveniently omit the testing option from the conversation. You can still remain unvaccinated, if that’s your choice. Just gotta get tested.

From: spike78
09-Sep-21
How do you get tested before work or prior to 3rd shift?

From: AZ8
09-Sep-21

AZ8's embedded Photo
AZ8's embedded Photo
Yeah, but before this it was….”No we won’t mandate any vaccines” Now it’s…..”100 or more, or testing” Next it will be….”100 or more, testing option dissolved” Then it will be…..”All companies, regardless of size” It will never end…………

From: AZ8
09-Sep-21

AZ8's embedded Photo
AZ8's embedded Photo
Just pointing out the lies in this Administration. Just over a month ago it was this:

From: Woods Walker
09-Sep-21

Woods Walker's Link
But......US Postal workers are EXEMPT! WTH?????

09-Sep-21
I’m betting when the employer passes the test costs on to the employee, there will be no other options but getting the shot. And, I know government understands that.

Here is the only issue with Gus debate. It’s that Covid is not the degree of epidemic politics pushed so hard to make it. And, people understand their odds are very high they’ll be just fine without the vaccine. It’s why so many just ain’t gonna get it. Mandate or not. It’ll cause a civil uprising.

From: Bowfreak
09-Sep-21
SD,

It is a ridiculous requirement and it will be impossible for a guy to keep up with testing especially when they will be required to pay for it. It is like banning ammo but making guns legal.

From: blackbear62
09-Sep-21
I liked the part where he talked about protecting all Americans. So what about the Americans he left behind in Afganistan?

From: Woods Walker
09-Sep-21
That was last week! New week, new lies.

From: SDHNTR(home)
09-Sep-21
That’s a fair point Bowfreak.

09-Sep-21
I've been getting tested every week for work for over a year. I work in a hospital so logistically, it's not that big of a deal. But let me tell you, getting a swab stuck up your nose every week for months on end is a lot worse than getting a vaccine.

09-Sep-21
Usually when you are trying knock down something you did that has terrible optics (like the Afghanistan exit), you make huge story out of something your opponents are doing. The Republicans aren't doing anything so they decided to just make headlines with something they are doing themselves.

Unfortunately, it works.

From: HDE
09-Sep-21
"I said I don't have much sympathy for people wringing their hands over it. Honestly, I think everyone should get the vaccine by choice."

That is precisely why people are "wringing their hands over it". The choice is no longer theirs.

This directive is nothing more than coercion, plain and simple. And, if the courts uphold this, shame on them and their failure...

From: soccern23ny
09-Sep-21
ROFL... your worst nightmare! Authoritarianism... from not a republican.

Right wing hypocrisy aside I'm against the federal government mandating non fed employees to get vaxed. I can see it failing in the courts. I am 100% okay with private businesses mandating their own vax standards however.

Question... if you guys get covid, do you plan to do daily updates until you are cured on here? Statistically most on here are much more likely to get covid/not do well than the average population. Ie... many on here are older, not vaxed, dont' socially distance, no mask, might eat horse grade medicine, bleach clenses, etc. The only saving grace for many here is you might live out in the boonies a bit and ergo are naturally socially distant.

Best of luck with you anti parasitic drugs for viral infections.

From: JohnMC
09-Sep-21
I am curious if Soccerchild is Ksflatbrimmer’s son…

From: soccern23ny
09-Sep-21
@JohnMC... I'm curious what the average grade level achieved on this site is.

Since most 5th graders have a better grasp on the difference between a virus, a bacteria, and a parasite. And how they operate in the human body.

From: RK
09-Sep-21
After that last post by soccern23ny you may be right MC

Obviously a child whomever they belong to

Damn kids.

09-Sep-21

[email protected]'s Link
Ivermectin is an antiparasitic but studies show it can have positive effects on viral infections including Covid. There is information out there and its not from Qanon or Infowars. I linked one article from the NIH site. I'm not an expert but the folks doing the studies probably qualify.

From: TD
09-Sep-21
huh...... where was Joe during the AIDS epidemic? Maybe take all drug users and gay folks and quarantine them behind a big ol' fence.... make sure they are denied medical treatment like some of the whack jobs are talking.... this is nucking futs.

He's a crazy old man and getting crazier and meaner as he tries to cover up Afghanistan FUBAR, the border.... everything he's touched. The plan is pretty clear.... they need to pit American against American, stir up and divide as much as possible so they don't turn their frustration toward him and his Globalist Corporate masters.

They've been lying to everyone from the start. Now you have to have "boosters"..... and they STILL need you to stay home, wear two or three masks.... Lie once.... I'm done. These people stack em on top of each other. Lost any and all credibility. Hope Fausi loses his license over his little lab perjury BS that the media has shut up about. They lie to the public about pretty much everything and justify it so as to make the public do what they want. But hey.... always remember.... just give em two weeks to flatten the curve.... To hell with these people.

Said it before..... I take this and treat this just like all those making up these "rules"do. You know, the ones going to restaurants, hair dressers, Mexican resorts, weddings and music festivals..... all the while telling you "little people" to mask up with two or three of em and stay home.....

Estimates I've read are a bit over half the fed workforce has taken the poke. Cool. When he gets rid of near half the fed workforce it might be the first good decision he's made in his entire life. Still wouldn't be his first honest one......

From: soccern23ny
09-Sep-21
@rk... everyone is someone's child. Hate to break it to you.

@glunt... you are unequivocally wrong. https://www.cnet.com/news/ivermectin-and-covid-19-whats-the-deal-with-this-controversial-unproven-drug/ https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w

If it works so good, why on gods green earth aren't they(FDA, CDC etc) pumping it into everyone? That vax works, ivermectin at best does not.

09-Sep-21
AZ8, before all this it was “Trump is a Xenophobe” for wanting to ban China from letting infected people come to the US if I remember correctly as they were attempting to impeach him. And now those same people are trying to ban Americans from being free. I hear they are also going to try and get rid of the filibuster. Mandatory vaccine is all about control and if the filibuster goes away, kiss all your rights goodbye......

From: Ambush
09-Sep-21
Of great danger is an idiot who thinks he's a genius.

From: Norseman
09-Sep-21
Suck, the answer to your question is too obvious to require elaboration.

From: Thornton
09-Sep-21
Embry you are 100% correct. I treat covid patients in ER daily now, and many are vaccinated. There is not a database that we enter these findings into other than the hospital medical record. The numbers of vaccinated covid patients are far higher than the 5% they admit to. I'm not telling people not to get vaccinated, but they need to be aware the vaccine is not a bullet proof vest against the virus.

From: Treeline
09-Sep-21
Soccer, can you tell us one good thing Biden and the Dems in the House and Senate have done for America and Americans since taking office?

From: Shrewski
09-Sep-21
The fraud that is in the White House has done dozens of illegal acts in his short time “in power”. The courts will rule this is illegal as well. I will not comply. I almost died from Covid last fall and I trust the antibodies I made during that ordeal to protect me MUCH more than any man made concoction. Why don’t antibodies count any more?

09-Sep-21
So when is congress going to vote on this?

09-Sep-21
I was wondering the same thing Shrewski. Natural immunity is not even talked about or considered. Not even by some of the so called medical professionals here on Bowsite. It’s totally ignored because it would upset the progressive narrative and point to other options other than being under government control.....I love that Rogan took his situation into his own hands like all free Americans should

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21
JohnMC- I can’t figure out if you love or hate me but it seems I’m always on your mind.

Thank goodness we live under the Constitution and there are checks and balances. I’m guessing that the SCOTUS will get a chance to weigh in on this. If they say it’s within the executive branches power then I’m good with it. If they say it’s not then I’m good with that also. I tend to think the court system will rule against Biden on this cause I believe it is an overreach of power. But I’m not a constitutional lawyer either.

I’m for individual rights but I also understand that there some rules are for the collective good as Idlywildarcher said. I’m willing to do whatever we need to do to protect my fellow Americans and I believe in the science of vaccines. Therefore, I’m not wringing my hands either for a revolution over it. I’m still going to stick with the Constitution and let it play out.

From: Blue Duck
10-Sep-21
How many of you would trade your “vaccine freedom” for Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Hep A, Hep B, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Rubella, Whooping cough, Rabies, Tuberculosis, and others? All vaccine-controlled diseases.

Also, how many of you gladly vaccinated your children to protect them from illness? How many of you thought mandatory vaccines for school children was a sensible policy before vaccines were politicized?

It’s not about personal freedom. We have the freedom to make decisions as an electorate, not to harm others by our personal decisions. Driving drunk is a personal decision, but it endangers others. Going unvaccinated is no different. Viruses multiply and mutate within the unvaccinated population. The unvaccinated are breeding the next COVID variants that will kill vaccinated people.

Do your duty, get over the politics, and get vaccinated.

From: soccern23ny
10-Sep-21
@Tree... They completed Trumps afghan deal, completed the promise he failed to keep when elected(get 100% of troops out of afghan), and ended a 20 year largely failed war.

They have managed and responded to the global pandemic by actually taking actions to respond to it.... Instead of pretending it wasn't real, that is fake, that it was going to go away by easter, that it's not even that deadly, by not not doing anything.

I try to think back to the good things trump did, really can't think of many. The 1 or 2 decent things he did are largely overshadowed by his atrocities, attempted coup d'etat, blatant bold face outright lies from big to small, important to unimportant. I've seen snakes lie less.

@shrewski... "Why don’t antibodies count any more?"

Holy hell, read a news report. Because the virus has mutated and the vax is more effective than most naturally had antibodies. Antibodies fade over time, especially the ones you got/how you got them. I have friends who got it, they got it again 6 months later, and it was worse the 2nd time around.

From: Shrewski
10-Sep-21
Blue Duck-I do not know of one single person who had Covid and did not get the vaccine who had had it again. I know scores of people who have had the vaccine and subsequently contracted Covid.

Rushed and basically untested (certainly not long term tested) vaccines are not better than God given and hard earned antibodies.

And just exactly how are the determining the “delta” or “lambda” variant as the are NO TESTS for them? Will the end with the “triple omega” variant?

Where did all the flu go?

Protect the elderly and compromised, build the herd immunity (which the vaccines obviously are NOT doing) and get on with life.

If you want to stop Covid, why do you keep an endless flow of it come illegally into the country, incubate it in the border towns, them ship it all over the US at the cost of the taxpayer?

It is a huge pile of BS, the government is not concerned about our health and safety.

10-Sep-21
I said their were studies showing positive results from Ivermectin. I posted one such study from the NIH website. Thats the big building Dr Fauci walks into on Monday mornings.

My claim is probably not "unequivocally" wrong. There is a clinical trial involving some Colorado facilities at the moment with Metformin, Fluvoxxomine and Ivermectin

From the NIH website:

"Some clinical studies showed no benefits or worsening of disease after ivermectin use, whereas others reported shorter time to resolution of disease manifestations that were attributed to COVID-19, greater reduction in inflammatory marker levels, shorter time to viral clearance, or lower mortality rates in patients who received ivermectin than in patients who received comparator drugs or placebo."

"If it works so good, why on gods green earth aren't they(FDA, CDC etc) pumping it into everyone?" Set your assumptions aside and re-read your question. Its a good one.

10-Sep-21
“When people are able to make choices without government interference for themselves in terms of their wellbeing and the wellbeing of their family, in consultation with whomever they may choose, we’re a stronger society,” Kamala Harris

"This is not about freedom or personal choice. It's about protecting yourself and those around you, the people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love. My job as president is to protect all Americans" Joe Biden

Both quotes from the same day, just two different issues. We are a very, very long way from being united.

From: TD
10-Sep-21

TD's Link
"and the vax is more effective than most naturally had antibodies" wow. what world are you living in claiming to have "the truth"? "Holy hell, read a news report." I would have to ask what "news" you may be reading? Your cheat sheet?

And we are told we are out of touch..... guess that is why they are saying the vax is now seen as effective for just a few months and now you need to have another..... and another.... and another.... sound familiar? Should.... their goalposts have been on wheels from day one.

Studies coming from Israel are showing exactly the opposite, natural immunity was many times (13 times?) more effective against the "delta variant". Check out link.

or this one.... https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/08/26/large-israeli-study-natural-immunity-provides-13-times-more-protection-against-delta-than-pfizers-vaccine-does-n411863

or this one... https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/312538

you get the picture. maybe

Curious what they pay you guys to troll lil' ol' Bowsite though..... might need a side hustle someday. I'd ask for double what you get though..... I'd actually do a bit of research into what I was doing....

From: WYOelker
10-Sep-21
Simply put. The mandatory push just made this family who was considering the vaccine a definite no… Sorry but we get to chose. Period!

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21

KSflatlander's Link
Not one bit surprised by TDS sources.

“ In general, the World Tribune publishes many true stories; however, occasionally, they publish outright fake news.

Overall, we rate World Tribune a Questionable source based on a far-right bias (propaganda), and poor sourcing, and misleading science, as well as a lack of ownership transparency. ”

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21

KSflatlander's Link
“Big news from Maccabi Healthcare Services, which tracked many thousands of people for this (not yet peer-reviewed) study.“

A non-peer reviewed study should give you pause. But the study did say that those that had COVID and one vaccine had the best immunity against the Delta variant. That’s basically cherry picking at its finest.

TDs third source references the same non-peer reviewed study (linked) as the second. It may or may not be a valid study yet; therefore, it is preliminary and not reliable.

But we come to expect that from a guy caught in the same alt-right ranting loops for over a decade.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
Biden is not a bad president...if you support big gov. Plain n simple. If Trump were pushing this crap it would st be wrong but the difference would be the media would be attacking him 24/7

10-Sep-21
whether you agree with vaccine mandates or not, the supreme court has already ruled that they are constitutional. whether the president has the power to do it unilaterally is another question.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
The SC makes a lot of bad rulings

From: bigswivle
10-Sep-21
Meanwhile at the border........

From: Woods Walker
10-Sep-21
....and the post office.....

From: Genesis
10-Sep-21
I support basic health standards by any administration that statistically help morbidity and mortality of all our citizens.This represents an act of good faith and available to all.I’ve enjoyed two shots of Moderna and received my booster last week all free of charge.

I also enjoy a stick of chewing gum daily and ride on two axles that I know little of the origins of.Im pretty well read on the vaccine and serve in a government regulatory capacity and was appointed by two different republican governors who entrusted me in that capacity,I receive no compensation for my service.Sometimes my country needs me,and I never had to stare at a draft card so the price to help seems pretty small compared to my forefathers.

We don’t know what we don’t know of course but one thing is for certain.

The poison of politics and opinion that has tainted this process on both side of the aisle DOES NOT actually make it inside the syringe.

Let’s do for our nation’s brothers and sisters who are at greatest risk from this pathogen and roll up our sleeve to REDUCE the ravages of this virus.

I think I’ll have a Juicy Fruit

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21
Communism is the virus.

Covid is just how it spreads.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
The Patriot Act was "suppose" to be for the good of our nation also. Now we know there is a lot of bad stuff in the Patriot Act. But hey...who cares if we give up our freedoms..they are only scribbles on paper written down over 200 yrs ago. Frederick Douglas said : " the problem is not tje constitution, but the interpretaion of the constitution ".

I think Fred was way smarter than these azzholes we have in DC today

From: 2Wild Bill
10-Sep-21
It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
That's what it boils down to Bill

From: midwest
10-Sep-21
Good to hear from you, Steve! Another voice of reason from someone with a lifetime of experience in healthcare.

From: 12yards
10-Sep-21
I wonder what would happen if all non-vaxxed people said, ok, screw it. I won't go to work. A national non-vaxxed strike. What would happen then? Would Biden backtrack? Would it be enough of a strike to cause economic disaster?

10-Sep-21
More interesting to me is the number of individuals who do not want to voluntarily get vaccinated.

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21
It is not a vaccine.

The “virus” is .03% fatal.

The injection doesn’t keep you from getting it, giving it, being hospitalized or dying from it.

Acute symptoms and death far greater than all vaccines over the last 30 years.

Unknown long term effects from the RNA and other ingredients.

“Protection” wears off in 3-6 months requiring “boosters”. Destroys natural defenses and will make people dependent on big pharma to stay alive.

The rabid push to destroy our rights using FEAR of Covid as a platform.

That’s why.

10-Sep-21
Medicine is never 100%, has never been 100%, and never will be. This includes vaccines. There is always some risk and lack of efficacy in some individuals, mainly those with imperfect immune systems. I get vaccinated not only to partially protect me, but the herd as well. Despite some risk, I do my part.

From: SaddleReaper
10-Sep-21
What ever happened to "my body, my choice"?

Where are all those vagina hat wearin people at now???

From: Boreal
10-Sep-21
A serious question to IdyllwildArcher and other medical professionals on this site. I keep hearing how we need to beat covid and put this pandemic behind us. So how does covid die? I only know what I know from watching and reading news. Obviously, the narrative changes depending on the source. One common theme seems to be that the vaccine isn't a true vaccine in that it doesn't kill the virus or lessen the transmissibility, but it does lessen the symptoms and effects. Wouldn't that mean that the virus will remain healthy and mutating and the vaccines will become less effective and will have too be updated and readministered on a regular basis? So how does it die and how do we get past it? BTW, I'm voluntarily vaccinated.

10-Sep-21
It should be your choice, however protected individuals contribute to herd immunity. I made the sacrifice.

10-Sep-21
I made the sacrifice voluntarily, and braved the risks. Medicine is like that.

From: HDE
10-Sep-21
"I’m still going to stick with the Constitution and let it play out."

Until it's misconstrued to mean something it doesn't while using a bureaucracy to enforce something that's made up. This directive can also have a direct effect on interstate commerce, and last I checked, only Congress possess the powers under the Commerce Clause...

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
They could care less about the constitution..thats been goin on for years. We dealing with tyrants

From: LINK
10-Sep-21
I’m with tree line. The only good reason I’ve seen to get the jab is idylls abortion hypothetical. I’d gladly get it to end the genocide on the unborn. Other than that I want nothing to do with it. Some guy above mentioned the only vaccinated people dying are those with comorbidities. Well that’s all that’s every died from COVID.

From: APauls
10-Sep-21
Suppose this COVID thing actually were real. Go talk to some people that are working with it daily. For some reason in Canada, or more specifically MB here, our nurses are burnt out and quitting. If you need a hospital visit for something non-COVID you need to wait days. If you head to the ER you will literally wait 10 hours or more to see a doctor. I mean I know it's because they're all sitting in the hallways playing on their phones and have been for two years to continue the great deception that this COVID really is, but still, it's really annoying.

Now suppose, that you just step back a little bit. Look at the state of the world, and say it actually was real, and the entire medical system was on the brink of collapse, and you were the one tasked with making it go away. But the unfortunate thing about infectious things is they spread rapidly, so you're kind of screwed as far as stopping the spread unless there's a way to affect everyone. What would YOU do? How would YOU do it? Have you ever had to make a decision that you knew was unpopular or partly unpopular but you had to do it for the greater good? Tough spot to be in for sure. Not one I am jealous of.

I know those of us that are vaccinated are dropping like flies. Suppose for one minute, that you were responsible for an entire country of people. Not just yourself, and the fact that you are quite confident you'll be fine. That is your individual decision.

But WHAT IF, you were responsible for the entire nation? What would you do? How would you help all the people that have increased risk factors? How would you help the elderly, the obese, and frankly, just the unlucky? How would YOU help all the people that are in risks way every day? How do you help the other people that need treatment they can't access because all the lines are clogged with COVID issues? What would you do? Where would you go to for data? Where would you go to for advice? Are 98% of doctors bad people that have somehow been fleeced by the system? They are people you know. People with families and a lust for life, just like you and me.

Never in the history of medicine has their been 100% agreement on anything. Yet what - 90-some % of doctors are vaccinated. Depends on where you are as to what % you'll find. Why would that be I wonder? If you had to take a gamble, and you look at the people that all have similar schooling and are dealing with this stuff, will you side with the 92-98% of experts, or would you side with the 2-8%. Because they must know something the rest don't? If you have a medical situation - say a shoulder issue, and had the time and the funds to get 100 opinions, you would NOT get the same opinion 100 times over. I would be impressed if you had 70-80% agreement. Yet on COVID, over 90% of the experts agree. Just some food for thought.

I'm not one to push my views on others, and by my statements I'm sure you'll know what my individual choice was, but I think before we get so caught up in our individual situations, try and take a step back, look at the whole thing, and see what you would do, should you have to be the one to take command. One thing is for sure; it's a really really tough spot to be in.

Also, I would/will never look down or crossly at someone with the 100% opposite opinion of myself. Just is what it is. We are most likely getting our information from different sources. My wife just happens to be a PhD in immunology so I thankfully have someone I can trust who is smarter than myself inside my own home. One thing is for certain, I wish you all the best.

It seems also to me, that outdoorsmen/woman seem to be less affected by COVID. I wonder if there is something about being outside all the time that makes us healthier individuals? Is the exercise? The air? The healthier eating? No data there, just seems to be what I see.

From: HDE
10-Sep-21
"...the supreme court has already ruled that they are constitutional."

But only when all the approvals are in place and after all protocols have been met.

"The SC makes a lot of bad rulings"

True statement.

From: deerhunter72
10-Sep-21
Great post APauls. Whichever side a person is on, there's a lot to consider. I wouldn't want to be the one calling the shots. I do believe this, Joe Biden certainly is not the best person to be making these kinds of decisions.

From: Stix
10-Sep-21
I'm not an infectious disease specialist (like alot on bowsite apparently are), but if you can help the virus from spreading through mass vaccination, it will decrease the number of cases, thus giving the virus less chance to evolve into different variants in greater numbers, leading to an end of this madness called Covid. Also adding that the National Institute for Health breakthrough infection numbers track pretty close to the advertised vaccine efficacy numbers. 5% breakthrough casess for those with Pfizer and Moderna; 26% with J&J. But among unvaccinated, your chance of catching a serious case of covid, are near 100%.

I said it once before, the bowsite is loaded with some highly intelligent members:

During the Trump impeachment, they were constitutional scholars.

Now they are infectious disease specialists.

Listen to the experts for cryin' out loud, and take the politics out of the vaccine initiative. Trump started us down the road on the vaccine with "Operation Warp Speed". Now he recommends getting it. That should be enough for the Trumplicans.

Just to add, I didn't vote for Biden, and think he is a bobble head, at best. I voted for Trump the first time and Libertarian the second time. But being an aerospace engineer by trade (retired), I know enough to listen to the experts in any given field and to ignore the conspiracy theorists.

From: Olink
10-Sep-21
I'm sorry guys, but I just cannot understand the thinking that is being displayed here. Just about every one of you have had multiple vaccinations as a child just so that you could attend school. Why? Because those vaccinations are what eliminated some very serious diseases in this country (can you say measles and smallpox). I don't hear any of you bitching about those vaccinations. So why is this different? Covid is one serious disease and immunizations have historically been the only way to eliminate the threat of bad disease. Flame away.

10-Sep-21
Olink, by and large people have very little understanding of medical history, let alone modern medicine. There is a reason GMO's are 100% bad, and gluten intolerance has become a mental epidemic.

From: 3arrows
10-Sep-21
Way past time to impeach the clown.

10-Sep-21
177 million fully vaccinated, 40 million with natural immunity. Thats around 65% of the US population. I'm definitely not an expert but I'm not betting that getting the other 35% vaccinated will fix things. I'm not antivax, I'm pro-reality. I think Covid is here to stay in one form or another unless we develop much more effective vaccines and treatments.

Totally agree with the harm politicizing Covid has done, just probably don't agree on how to spread the blame out for that.

10-Sep-21
Covid and it's varients are here to stay. We should voluntarily do what we can to mitigate the risks to us, and others. Just common sense.

From: deerhunter72
10-Sep-21
I don't know that we can ever reach herd immunity with Covid. I'm afraid it may be something that we have to deal with from now on. Maybe someone on here with an actual knowledge and understanding of viruses can chime in?

From: Bowfreak
10-Sep-21
Olink,

Why is this different? It is different because our "leaders" have done nothing but divide and conquer on any and everything. They have sewed the seeds of discontent. Very few people, regardless of political persuasion, trust the government. We have watched the goal posts be moved continually and have no idea what to believe on Covid. I wasn't around when smallpox was an issue but I would guess that it was not politicized (at least to this extent) and that it was general consensus that the government is looking out for our well being. It would be hard to convince many that the government is looking out for our well being even if they truly are. Most simply see the ruling class as looking out for themselves while amassing as much power as possible, rights be damned.

From: Bill J.
10-Sep-21

Bill J.'s Link
If you haven't already, read this. It's long, but worth it IMO...

10-Sep-21
Herd immunity will not be 100%. Imperfect immune systems will not allow it. That is an individual immune system failure, not always a vaccine problem. Or worse yet, someone else's problem, it is your deficient immune system. You own it.

From: spike78
10-Sep-21
Stix wasn’t it the so called experts who allowed the space shuttle Challenger to burst into a ball of flames even after they knew it would a bad idea from the start?

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21

KSflatlander's Link
Bill J- below and linked is the resume for the author of the blog you posted. I didn’t read it nor will I if the author hides his education and background. Very suspect and not credible IMO.

“ In the end it does not matter who I am, what credentials I bring to the table, or how well I can fluff my resume to project an aura of expertise. If what I write has value, my bio should be irrelevant and who I am will be revealed in the spaces between the lines.”

From: Norseman
10-Sep-21

Norseman 's Link

From: LINK
10-Sep-21

LINK's embedded Photo
LINK's embedded Photo
“Covid and it's varients are here to stay. We should voluntarily do what we can to mitigate the risks to us, and others. Just common sense“

I completely agree. That’s why I support the right of every American that is worried about this to take a shot, wear a mask and STF at home. The rest of us will keep doing what we can.

10-Sep-21
Agree Link.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
Link hit the nail on the head..thats it in a nutshell

From: Boatman71
10-Sep-21
"During WWII, we had a National speed limit of 25mph. It was called "Freedom Speed," or something like that. During crises that affect us all, I believe that we need to pull together as a country and take one for the team, even if that means getting a shot that will protect you from a disease that you will most likely not die from. I got my shots willingly and the booster, not because I was worried about the disease, but because I practice what I preach."

X2

From: 2Wild Bill
10-Sep-21
Why the un-jabbed are not selfish.

https://www.bodychek.co.uk/uncategorized/4898/phd-cellular-molecular-biologist-explains-why-the-un-jabbed-are-not-selfish/?fbclid=IwAR3iCHMebwInEVwTUHYgGSD2XfrMvUu6O2seWcY4KNHEPG6gjCkKwNzH-WQ

From: APauls
10-Sep-21
Why do people with the Vaccine still get sick?

In my best hunting related analogy, if beating COVID is like climbing up a 20ft oak tree to a stand, most hunters have the strength if they really needed to grab the branches and one way or another get themselves up. Heck, as a young, somewhat fit individual in the absence of forgetting my tree steps I climbed up a 20 foot bald poplar to reach my stand. Point being, if you're young, relatively healthy, don't have a bunch of other risk factors (for a metaphor sake let's say missing an arm) you'll get to your stand no problem.

Now suppose you've got more risk factors, age, diabietes, other health issues, that's kind of like starting this challenge missing an arm, or depending how bad it is, maybe an arm and a leg. Or two arms. Or even two arms and a leg it you're really sickly.

Getting the vaccine is kind of like being gifted a 20 foot extension ladder. Gets you all the way there, there's still that one difficult step at the top that the odd bonehead could screw up, but otherwise it's pretty foolproof. But, for the old and frail, (missing an arm or two, maybe even legs as well) the ladder will help, but they still may not make it. Because the ladder is just a ladder. The situation must still work with the body you've got at the time. It won't turn you superhuman. It's a boost for sure, but you're still the same person with all the same risk factors that you had before you started going up the ladder, ie trying to beat COVID. It will help, but there's no guarantees.

In the case of someone really weak and sick (say missing two arms and a leg) they're probably just better off not trying to climb the ladder. They'd be best waiting on the ground and just taking their chances they never get covid. Because climbing the ladder may kill them (getting the shot), and they basically have no chance of beating COVID anyways. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

I'm just so tired of people saying: "Why are people still getting COVID even if they have the shot?" Remember, almost all the people that had risk factors? Ya, they got the shot, but it isn't a 100% guarantee for them. They're still climbing the ladder with no arms, and could easily fall off.

The metaphor won't be perfect, and I just made it up. But that's my understanding of it anyways ;)

10-Sep-21
75% vaccinated where is the herd immunity? Not the fault of the 25% this crap is here to stay its time to move on.Once you give the Govt control its hard to get it back just like the Patriot Act.

Has Biden got a third shot yet? Some real reporter needs to ask.

10-Sep-21
Why do some vaccinated still get sick? Many factors, though likely a poor individual immune system since the majority respond. You own your immune system, it is not my problem.

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21

KSflatlander's Link
Double post

From: midwest
10-Sep-21
Americans are fat, weak, and easy to kill. Now we're all paying for it.

From: bowhunt
10-Sep-21

bowhunt's embedded Photo
bowhunt's embedded Photo
[email protected]

Above is the stats for vaccinated people in the US. When you hear the higher percentages that are vaccinated, it typically excluded people under 18 or under 16.

The US population is only 54 percent fully vaccinated if this is correct.

From: Matt
10-Sep-21
"Olink, Why is this different? It is different because our "leaders" have done nothing but divide and conquer on any and everything. They have sewed the seeds of discontent. Very few people, regardless of political persuasion, trust the government. We have watched the goal posts be moved continually and have no idea what to believe on Covid. I wasn't around when smallpox was an issue but I would guess that it was not politicized (at least to this extent) and that it was general consensus that the government is looking out for our well being. It would be hard to convince many that the government is looking out for our well being even if they truly are. Most simply see the ruling class as looking out for themselves while amassing as much power as possible, rights be damned."

I truly believe that the biggest difference between how the US handled smallpox in comparison to COVID ties back to social media. If Facebook and Youtube didn't exist, I bet the US vaccination rate would be in the 80%+ range.

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21
If COVID is so dangerous, why the exemptions? Exempt from the mandate so far:

USPS. Illegal aliens. House of Representatives. Senate. Federal courts. Those that work for Congress/Federal courts.

10-Sep-21
And that's why all the hesitancy people have when mandates and guidelines come out.

UPS needs to be vaxxed but USPS doesn't? Normal people see that and have normal takeaways.

10-Sep-21
"But only when all the approvals are in place and after all protocols have been met."

such as? pfizer is FDA approved.

besides, i'm sure the protocols are a lot more stringent today than they were in 1905, the first time the supreme court ruled that a vaccine mandate was constitutional.

From: Copperhead
10-Sep-21
I believe in freedom of choice. It's in the Bible and it's in our constitution. If you have to show a card that you have taken a shot to make a living or buy life sustaining essentials, that seems to be on the road to communism. As far as the immunizations that we took and our children took for school, those were for diseases not for viruses except hepatitis and they also took many years to develop the cure for. This vaccine is still in it's experimental stage and I believe it is our right to choose whether or not to take it.

Now I know someone is going to say that they have recently been approved by the FDA but the numbers I see and the fact that you need booster shots so quickly shows to me that it is still indeed in it's experimental stage.

God bless to all.

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21
The Pfizer that is being injected is still only approved for Emergency Use. The one they approved is not available in the USA.

From: Bill J.
10-Sep-21
KS, you sir, are hopeless...

From: Matt
10-Sep-21

Matt's Link
"The New York Times reported on Thursday that the executive order doesn't apply to those who work for Congress or the federal courts, citing White House officials.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said at a press conference on April 29 that the House couldn't require members to be vaccinated. Video clips of those remarks gained renewed attention online following Biden's announcement.

"So—so here is the thing. We are—we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That's just not what we can do. It is a matter of privacy to know who is or who isn't," Pelosi said."

What a complete load of horse $#!+. What's good for thee is not good for me. Ah, the liberal elite.

From: Norseman
10-Sep-21
In my work experience any OSHA rule requirements on testing, providing PPE, is all on the employer to provide. I would think this would fall under medical surveillance. There are 1,000s if not more companies out there that before this, would have no need for an established medical surveillance program. But yet most companies will just say “ok” not knowing and take on the extra unconstitutional burden. Sickening.

From: Matt
10-Sep-21

Matt's Link
"The Pfizer that is being injected is still only approved for Emergency Use. The one they approved is not available in the USA."

They are different in name and liability only as the Pfizer vaccines approved for use under the EUA and approved by the FDA have the same formulation.

"The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series."

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo

From: Bowfreak
10-Sep-21
"I truly believe that the biggest difference between how the US handled smallpox in comparison to COVID ties back to social media. If Facebook and Youtube didn't exist, I bet the US vaccination rate would be in the 80%+ range."

No disagreement from me. I would add that I believe the MSM is also very much culpable.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
Leftist are very fair and inclusive..as long as you agree with them. What we are seeing is the result of 50 plus yrs of leftist rhetoric spewed out of the universities and the main stream media. If conservatives were pushing for this and it would still be wrong...but the media's take on it would be a lot different

10-Sep-21
"The Pfizer that is being injected is still only approved for Emergency Use. The one they approved is not available in the USA."

they are exactly the same.

10-Sep-21
"As far as the immunizations that we took and our children took for school, those were for diseases not for viruses except hepatitis and they also took many years to develop the cure for."

Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella (German Measles), Polio, Varicella (Chicken Pox), Rota, HPV, Hepatitis A & B - all of these are viruses and are part of the childhood vaccines that all our kids get (Except smallpox because it's been eradicated from the world). They are diseases caused by viruses. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The bacterial immunizations that kids get are Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis (whooping cough), HiB, Pneumococcus, and Meningococcus. Those are also disease, but are caused by bacteria.

Most of the vaccines your kids get before going to school are vaccines against viruses.

Hear of many people getting Chicken Pox lately? I had it as a kid - so did all my siblings and friends had it. The vaccine for the VIRUS was released in the US in 1995 and now it's pretty much gone - would be entirely gone if it weren't for antivaxxers.

My parents both had Measles.

I've been practicing medicine since 2006 - 15 years now. I've seen precisely 1 case of Chicken Pox and zero cases of Measles and I'm closing in on somewhere around 60,000 patient encounters in my career.

As far as speed, yes, it took longer to develop the small pox vaccine and the polio vaccine because they were the first vaccines ever developed. We're much better at it now because technology has advanced.

What has to be looked at is safety data because it can be accumulated at different rates depending on how many people you're studying. The Pfizer/Moderna vaccines enrolled 10s of thousands of participants for the phase III trials and it's the same safety data protocols that we use for every other medication. They've been shown to be safe.

When you go to your doctor, do you ask for 20+ year old drugs only? Do you even know how long they've been out or how large of a study was done on them?

Many of the new medications that I've used on my patients over the years have received FDA approval with studies that are 1/10 the size of the studies that Pfizer/Moderna did on these vaccines. Ever heard of another Pfizer medication Lipitor (Atorvastatin)? If I remember right, their safety data from that medication was somewhere around 3000-6000 people - that's a normal sized study to get a medication approved in the US. Comparably, and again, these numbers are off the top of my head, but Pfizer's phase III study was 30,000 people. And as of me writing this, it's had well over 100 million doses given in the US.

I've looked at the safety data. I do this for every drug I give. The vaccines are safe and the studies proved this. I said this in a previous thread, but if you give a million people a shot in the arm of saline solution, you're going to have at least 1 person drop dead from it. There is risk in everything you put in to your body and that includes food - a random salad from the grocery store could give you E. Coli and a random egg from the same store could give you Salmonella.

Is the vaccine perfect? No. Is it safe? As far as the medical community describes "safe," then yes, it's safe. And it's a lot safer than a lot of the medications that we prescribe people every single day.

16,500 people die each year in the USA from gastrointestinal bleeding related to the use of NSAIDs like Motrin and Aspirin. How many of you take aspirin every day? How many of you take Motrin or other NSAIDs? We do not have 16,500 people dying from COVID vaccines. It's only been a small handful of people that have died from it.

Are you ok with taking aspirin or Motrin/Ibuprofen? How many of you that refuse the vaccine take these medicines or Celebrex or Naproxen? I've seen people (multiple) in my career die from aspirin, Motrin, and Naproxen.

How about Allopurinol? How many of you take that for Gout prevention? I've seen two different people die from Allopurinol during my career. I've seen somebody die from Xeralto. Do any of you take that? I've seen someone die from Lisinopril and another from Diltiazem. Do any of you folks refusing the vaccine take those? I've seen multiple people die from just getting an IV. Just a needle in a vein that got infected and caused eventual death.

From: Boatman71
10-Sep-21
Ike, Thank you for taking the time to put all of that in words. Good read.

10-Sep-21
Most recent AMA survey: 96% of US doctors vaccinated against COVID.

From: Will
10-Sep-21
Ike - THANK YOU FOR THAT ENTIRE POST!

From: spike78
10-Sep-21
Idyll, why would I want to be among that “small” amount of people who died from the vaccine (12,000+) when their is no guarantee I will even catch Covid. If I do catch Covid my odds of dying from it are 1-2% so....

10-Sep-21
spike

12000 people have not died from the vaccine. Those are all-cause deaths after receiving the vaccine. A certain % of people are going to die even if you do nothing just because people die. You can't immunize 100s of millions of people without a number of people dying after the receiving the vaccine because they would have died anyways.

Again, if you give a million people a shot of saline, at least one guy out there will die.

The difference between the death rate of people who got the vaccine and a similar group of people, the death rate for the vaccinated group is a clinically insignificant number of people.

There's only been a handful of people who've for certain died directly from the vaccine.

This data has been twisted by people who are looking for reasons to question it's safety.

And it's definitely been overwhelming proven that even though your risk of dying of COVID is low, it's higher than getting the vaccine by a long-shot. And we also have tons of people who are surviving COVID who are now permanently disabled from the disease even though they survived. Additionally, we have a ton of people dying from heart attacks and strokes in the first year after having the disease that is statistically much higher than those who didn't.

The vaccine prevents death, but also prevents debilitating disease that will change your life forever.

EDIT: From my experience and talking to colleagues across the country, by far, the people currently dying from COVID and ending up in the ICU from COVID (by the way, if you end up in the ICU from COVID, you can probably expect your health/body to never be the same) are unvaccinated individuals and it seems to be more than a 10:1 ratio.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
One both sides of the issue there has been misinformation. If I get the vaccine and die 2 days later in a car wreck..am I counted in that number? On the other side, people get covid and die from other causes...are they counted under covid deaths. From what I see, there is so much misinformation out c there its hard for people to get the facts. Everybody I know that got the vaccine had no problem..doesn't mean some people wont.

I work couple people that got the vacvine but still got covid. Ive been on the fence myself. One thing Im not on the fence about is it should be an individuals decision and not forced on them.

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21
Ike, calling BS on your statement about those that have died from the injection. Certainly not the case.

Read about how they died. It is in the reports.

They did not get hit by a bus or fall from a building after the shot, they died from the shot.

That would be how they reported Covid deaths previously. No matter how you die, if you died with Covid, it was Covid.

And that with an admittedly faulty test being run at much higher cycles than it should be.

10-Sep-21
TGbow, And that's true. I've seen a lot of people who got the vaccine, catch the virus. But I've not seen anyone who got the vaccine and got COVID get really sick or die. None.

And again, like I said in the beginning of this thread, I also don't think anyone should be forced by the Federal Govt to get vaccinated. But I also believe that they shouldn't have to. It's unfortunate that it's come to this.

The safety data are out and the medical-scientific community is in agreement except for a few partisans. There's always a whacko in the group.

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21
The flu has killed more people then COVID ever will and the flu will never go away. Yet there is/was no rabid push to get the flu shot and it is/was just recommended. Pre COVID, there wasn’t an all out assault to get the flu shot. No mandates. Nothing. People just went about their lives deciding for themselves if they’d get the flu shot. No mass hysteria ensued. No government mandates. No job threats. Yet every year, thousand’s would die from the flu. Every year! Across the globe!

Suddenly, COVID has become the Ebola on steroids and a mass extinction event will occur if we don’t get 100% vaccinated. Crazy how mankind made it all the way to 2020 without the mass hysteria! It’s a wonder how we all survived! Lol

From: LINK
10-Sep-21
Ike. You state a handful have died. How many otherwise healthy people now have heart conditions their doctors attribute to the vaccine? I know one guy in my little small town that barely knew he had COVID. He later got the vaccine to “ do the right thing”. He now has a pacemaker for his irregular heartbeat that the doctor says was 100 % a side effect of the shot. There are more than a handful of stories like that out there. What are those numbers? The numbers of people I’ve heard have side effects are all this fit 37 year old needs to hear. Absolutely no reason for me to get it. My brothers have had the disease and other than a low grade fever for an hour wouldn’t have known they had it. They are both older than me and well over 20% body fat.

10-Sep-21
Sorry Tavis, that's just not true. Those numbers have been spun.

From: Norseman
10-Sep-21
Yes I refuse to take Lisinopril which my Dr. Prescribed based on what it was doing to me. I know take Losartan for my hypertension.

Just a FYI moment

From: Jethro
10-Sep-21
Ike, that is probably the best post made on any Bowsite thread relating to covid since this whole mess started.

From: Will
10-Sep-21
Spike - I'm not sure what sources you are pulling that info... But my suspicion is that it's people either intentionally, or because they dont know how to assess the VAERS data base pushing bad info.

VAERS is basically set up for generating research hypothesis. It requires physician/researcher review and assessment and it is absolutely NOT set up as a diagnostic tool. There needs to be physician diagnostics used to understand situations, and VAERS is NONE of that.

There are OTHER Vax Safety databases which are not essentially crowd sourced (like VAERS) that are better for that purpose.

A number of folks pushing shady information about vaccination are pulling data from VAERS and making it sound like that data is absolute, fully vetted, ironclad, fact. Its not. It can be and is abused and full of info that doesnt really compute. How can that be said? Because, again, there are other vaccine databases with far more sensitivity and higher quality measures to help parse out risk and poor impacts as a result of vaccinations.

From: KSflatlander
10-Sep-21

KSflatlander's Link
If you are talking about VAERS data then Idyllwild is exactly right about death numbers from COVID vaccines.

“ Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.

Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information. The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.

VAERS data is limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.

VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.”

10-Sep-21
LINK, the answer is a few. You can't give 100s of millions of doses of a vaccine without horror stories. And again, the morbidity and mortality from COVID is worse than the morbidity and mortality from the vaccine.

Just like my examples above of Xeralto, Lisinopril, Allopurinol, etc, I have horror stories to tell. And I still prescribe these medicines. But horror stories don't dictate safety. Studies do.

If you made all your decisions based on just anecdotal horror stories, you'd live your life paralyzed by fear.

From: HDE
10-Sep-21
Ike - all the diseases you listed are not Corona viruses.

There is a reason a catch-all annual vaccine isn't available for the "common cold".

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
Ike, I dont know of anybody that had the vaccine and died, I know some have, but my dad is 92 and step mom is 82, they both had the vaccine with no effects

From: Matt
10-Sep-21
"There is a reason a catch-all annual vaccine isn't available for the "common cold"."

Yes, because there are multiple different viruses which cause the common cold (rhinovirus, coronavirus, adenovirus, HPIV, RSV, etc.). Same for the flu.

COVID is caused only by a single coronavirus, and I believe it more generally shares that similarity with the diseases Ike listed above for which we have successfully developed vaccines.

From: LINK
10-Sep-21
“LINK, the answer is a few. You can't give 100s of millions of doses of a vaccine without horror stories. And again, the morbidity and mortality from COVID is worse than the morbidity and mortality from the vaccine.“

Strange that out of the few cases I know of a couple of them and it’s not like I know more than a couple hundred people that have received the shot. From what I’ve seen of the disease and the shot in people under 60, I would much rather take my chances with the disease. That should be my right…. I apply for New Mexico elk tags with odds of 1:1000. I don’t want to apply for irregular heartbeats with the same odds.

From: SDHNTR(home)
10-Sep-21
Ike, Apauls, and Genesis are my kinda peeps! Practical and rational. Thank you gentlemen!

From: Bowfreak
10-Sep-21
I'm pretty sure ace inhibitors would kill me. Maybe not directly but I'd cough until I'm dead.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
Where is the line drawn? If they can force vacvinations of us , whats next? 90% of the time when we lose our rights...its during some kind of crisis or war time

From: Treeline
10-Sep-21

Treeline's Link
This should be of interest to everyone.

It should be on every media outlet.

The total deaths attributed to the Covid vaccines as of 8/27/21, according to the CDC’s VAERS system - 13,911.

Total deaths from all other vaccines from the same source for the period of 1990 to present - 8,886.

Is there some better source of information that says only a few people have died from the injections?

From: Matt
10-Sep-21

Matt's Link
"The total deaths attributed to the Covid vaccines as of 8/27/21, according to the CDC’s VAERS system - 13,911."

Man, even a broken clock is right twice a day. What you provided is a list of deaths "associated" (their word, not mine) with COVID vaccinations, with the association being the timing of death relative to the receipt of the COVID vaccine.

What it is not is a list of deaths "attributed" to the vaccine which implies a causal relationship.

I've linked a page from the CDC website and the below is from that page and spells out exactly what you have wrong:

" FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

From: Habitat
10-Sep-21
Really what is all the fuss about getting a vaccine? It's the only way smallpox,polio,measles was brought under control. There is no difference. And I really haven't seen anything that proved you had more of a immune system if you had it and got over it than if you were vaccinated. For one thing the antibodies weaken as time goes by. No different than Hep vaccine, you get 3 of them but if you have a needle stick 10 years down the road you get a booster.If people not getting a vaccine was only going to affect them then so what but it doesn't it spreads to others and some of those other victims may become very sick or die because they were infected.

10-Sep-21
Ike - As I understand it, studies have shown that there is additional immunological benefit to people who have contracted COVID and then received the vaccine. (Supposedly the strongest resistance to future infection?)

What about those who have been vaccinated and then contracted a breakthrough COVID infection? Does that “natural” exposure after vaccination confer greater benefit?

From: Grey Ghost
10-Sep-21
"The total deaths attributed to the Covid vaccines as of 8/27/21, according to the CDC’s VAERS system - 13,911."

I guess you missed this part of the CDC page that states:

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

Also, did the CDC require "adverse events" from the other vaccines to be reported, like they have for COVID? I honestly don't know the answer to that. But, if not, then comparing those 2 numbers is meaningless.

Matt

From: deerhunter72
10-Sep-21
I take 3 of the meds that Idyll mentioned daily for heart disease. I also took the COVID vaccine. ANYTHING we put in our bodies could possibly kill us. It’s called living. One certainty is death, we all just want to live as long as we can.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
The big deal is its not right to force people to get vaccinated

10-Sep-21
VAERS reporting has been used by many people opposed to the vaccine to claim it's not as safe as it is. Let me explain how this works:

When a drug is first designed, the company that makes it runs a double-blind placebo-controlled study on a number of people that they decide they'll test. There's 3 phases which involves getting the dose right and paying a few people to be guinea pigs, all the way up to phase III where a 100s to 1000s of people are enlisted. Data on side effects and efficacy is then presented to the FDA for approval. The FDA board has a large group of scientists that examine the data and vote on approval or denial for use in the USA.

For a drug to be approved, the company has to do several things: 1. They have to present all the safety data, even if some of it is not great. 2. They have to perform their studies in a manner that is accepted by the scientific community to be free of prejudice, flaws in data gathering, loopholes to find results they're looking for, etc. 3. They have to show that the thing that they're trying to accomplish outweighs the risks associated with taking it in the first place.

After all this happens and their drug is FDA approved for use (and the COVID vaccine was initially given an emergency use authorization, but the formal FDA approval process has concluded and Pfizer's vaccine has been FDA approved, officially ending any title of 'experimental,' Moderna's vaccine is scheduled for an up or down vote soon), again, after all the above is done and a drug is approved, then post-release data is continued to be collected by the government and the manufacturer. The purpose of this is to catch the "one-in-a-millions," the ultra-rare side effects that didn't present in numbers sufficiently in the phase III trials in numbers sufficiently to be statistically significant.

What we were told as we rolled out the vaccine, was that we were to report to VAERS everything, no matter what. It was not our job to say if it was from the vaccine or not, but rather to report everything and let the mass of data be analyzed by the epidemiologists and the statisticians. This is how that oft-quoted number of deaths that has been circulating, mainly by people and news-sources already hostile to the vaccine due to the political timing of its release, got mentioned in the first place. And it continues to circulate.

But people who understand how this works, understand that those numbers were just reported because they happened. A detailed analysis of that data and data collected since the release of the vaccine have shown that only a small handful of people have died as a direct result of the vaccine. Blindly interpreting that data is using post hoc logic: Just because a butterfly flaps its wings in China and it then starts raining in Chicago, doesn't mean that the butterfly caused the rainstorm.

This system is how it was shown that Vioxx increased risk of cardiovascular death back in the early 2000s. It was shown that Merck hid data that showed it because they were incredulous to the idea that an NSAID could increase risk of heart attack and stroke. And it barely did, but it did. And it was shown in after-market research. Vioxx was subsequently pulled from the market and Merck was fined heavily and sued by a lot of people.

Nonetheless, with the release of EVERY SINGLE MEDICATION EVER, there have been people who've taken it and died, not because of the medication, but because people die. All the time. Every day in the US, about 7500 people die - about one every 12 seconds. Again, all-cause mortality data. It's only useful when you compare it to a control group: When you compare the people who got the vaccine and use a control, that VAERS death statistic is brought into context because people who get the vaccine don't die more than then the average, typical death rate that we would expect for that group of people.

10-Sep-21
Orionsbro: I don't know the answer to your question. I don't think that's been directly studied enough for anyone to know.

From: drycreek
10-Sep-21
I can’t read all the posts because my attention span is too short, but I want to address one thing. I keep hearing the phrase “listen to the experts”. There are NO EXPERTS on Covid. Most doctors don’t know crap about it and that’s obvious if you’ve ever had it and went to a doctor. I did, and he said “Yep, you got it” and that was that. When I had a blood pressure of 174/105 the ER doc said that wasn’t anything to worry about. Huh ? I admit they’re learning a little, but they’re still far from experts. Most of them aren’t experts on anything. They try something, it doesn’t work, they try something else. Even if they can’t cure you, you still have to pay them though……

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21
YOU have to be your own advocate in today’s COVID world. Not your doctor. Go with your instincts. I’m not anti-vax. I’m pro information and anti medical coercion. I want to see 2-3 years worth of data.

Pfizer was involved in one of the biggest lawsuits in the medical industry, a $2.3 BILLION settlement, with a record breaking $1.3 BILLION criminal fine. One of the major violations was kickbacks. So when your doctor pushes the vaccine, ask him/her who is signing the paycheck.

10-Sep-21
drycreek, I'll put it bluntly: In general, your family doctor is generally not really well-informed about COVID. There are certainly people out there that have tremendous knowledge on it though in the bigger institutions and your average HCW can access a lot of this knowledge and data if they try with variances based on where they are.

And I've said my entire career: If you're about to die, lose a limb, or an eye, an ER in the US is the best place for you to be. But as far as regular care, ER doctors are not great at it. Because it's not their training. They're trained to save you right now.

I'm Family Practice trained, but do a lot of ER work now and let me tell you, when I see a patient in the out-patient clinic with a BP of 174/105, we're talking about it and doing something about it. When I see that same BP in the ER, 99% of the time I'm not doing a damn thing about it.

There's a few reasons for that: 1. blood pressures in the ER are much higher than average because of the nature of what brings people into the ER, and 2. 174/105 is not going to kill you right now - it's going to kill you eventually. My job in the ER is to make sure you don't die right now. Your moderately high BP will be rechecked by your regular doctor and it's his job to do something about it. But your BP being that high for a week is not going to kill you.

FTR, I'm 43, have a BMI of 22, and my BP runs about 125/85. Put me in the sheep mountains and I'll get my BP up to 174/105 climbing a mountain going after a sheep no problem. Having a BP that high is actually somewhat normal under certain circumstances. It's just bad for you to have it all the time. Your ER doctor doesn't know if you have a BP that high all the time because, again, 1. lots of people's BP is high in the ER while being normal under normal circumstances and 2. it's not his job to do it. If we handed out BP meds in the ER to everyone who's BP was high in the ER, 1/2 of America would be on BP meds and not need them - it's not the appropriate place to take care of it.

Now, if your BP was 240/140, then yeah, I'm doing something about it right now. But honestly, 174/105 is no big deal in the ER.

From: spike78
10-Sep-21
So almost 14,000 people died from the vaccine but yet no big deal because the number is small compared to the total number vaccinated. Are you guys out of your effing minds! Picture 14,000 dead people piled up and tell me it’s no big deal! Like I said I have about 10% chance in MA of catching Covid and 1-2% chance of dying from wtf is that hard to understand?

10-Sep-21
That's right AZ8. We're all crooks and don't actually give a hoot about people's health. We're all just in it for the $$$.

10-Sep-21
spike, did you read anything I wrote?

14,000 people did not die from the vaccine.

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21
I call like I see it.

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
I think what Ike is referring to is how they collect the numbers, are they including people that got the vaccine then died of other causes? Just like the death rate of Covid, if you have Covid but actually die of other causes, they report it as a Covid death. Thats why its hard to get real data on all this

From: azelkhntr
10-Sep-21
World population. 7.85 billion. WW covid deaths. 4,611,170. Chances of you dying from the Covid 19. 0.0587%. Shove your x-vaxs where the sun dont shine o'biden-ho.

From: Olink
10-Sep-21
"So almost 14,000 people died from the vaccine but yet no big deal because the number is small compared to the total number vaccinated. Are you guys out of your effing minds! Picture 14,000 dead people piled up and tell me it’s no big deal! Like I said I have about 10% chance in MA of catching Covid and 1-2% chance of dying from wtf is that hard to understand?"

Some people have selective hearing. Apparently others have selective reading.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Sep-21
Spike78,

I'm convinced you have a comprehension disability. Not that there's anything wrong with that...But c'mon man, you're embarrassing yourself.

Matt

10-Sep-21
He'll never live down that picture. I picture his staff seeing it for the first time and one big simultaneous facepalm.

From: spike78
10-Sep-21
Idyll, the CDC first came out with 12,000 death toll figure then miraculously knocked it down to 6,000 how convenient. So how the hell am I wrong about 14,000? I’m simply taking the number and raising it because the CDC is refuting vaccine deaths and down playing them. And this is not counting deaths in other countries. A simple Google search will reveal that info as apparently other countries are more truthful then this country.

From: spike78
10-Sep-21

spike78's Link
Here you go over 7000 deaths reported by the CDC. If you think that this is the ACTUAL total I’ve got a Unicorn on my land to hunt.

From: 3rd Degree
10-Sep-21
You can find numbers to back whatever position you take. Numbers and stats are spun. Don't care, not gonna change my mind. I'll make my own decision! Thank you for your concern.

My body my choice! Why is that only ok for women and killing a baby? With no legal grounds for the father to have any say. Re-enforced by harris's statements yesterday. Even going so far as to say no legislative branch can circumvent the Constitution.

What seems to me, is that there is an agenda. Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I don't think it's about my, my families, or the American public's safety though.

Fact is Covid sucks. BUT, I certainly don't trust the hypoliticians to tell me what to do. The more they push, the less I trust. For something that is less deadly than driving a car. Especially when they turn their backs on Afghanistan, and the border. If this is so bad, and the shot is so right, why aren't they forcing them to comply before illegal entry and release? And on top of that, treating these immigrants better than our own, and more so our Veterans!!!! Thank you to all that have served. You have given so much!! You deserve far better!

Divide, distract, and conquer the people, as so many have already said here. Take more power, never to be restored to the people again. Pay no attention to the new world order! Nothing to see here, get on the train if you have a star, move along if you don't.

Dr's and lawyers practice. I DO my job. Not saying med pro's aren't looking out for us, but how many of you have been rushed by your Dr, after waiting patiently so long for that brief visit and prescription? Try this, if not better, come back. Someone else on here made the comment that most primary physicians don't know enough about covid. Then WHY are we going to see them, and WHY do I care what they think about the shot? REALLY?? And you are a med pro? Ridiculous!! Thanks for giving me another reason to make my own decision. I myself almost died from strep because a Dr did that to me, and then refused to see me 48 hours later when I was much, much worse. Because he was too busy meeting with his pharmacy reps. All the while ignoring me in the waiting room. Obviously, I survived. Thanks to a great Dr. that got me in right away.

Not to mention the censorship, mis-information, and BS fact checkers. Nothing is real, except this is America. We are different from every other country because we stood up to a tyrannical government said ENOUGH, AND FORMED A NATION BASED ON INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. Not a nation of "well if most people say so, then ok, I guess it'sbest for me too" said in Snuffilufagus's voice.

Freedom is choice, not yours for me, but mine for me! No choice is no freedom.

As far as approval for these shots goes, same alphabet soup agency backing some agenda they won't disclose. I know, I must be some idiot who doesn't give a crap about anybody else.

If the shot is so great, why is everyone who took it, still so scarred of those who didn't? Why do you have to be protected? Didn't he shot do that?

If you haven't figured it out by now, I did not, and don't plan on getting the shot. I am just selfish and don't care about anyone or anything. So, I guess this will be the last you will hear from me, as I am surely going to die soon. Oh, and probably as a mass murderer, as I am obviously killing many, many people!

From: Tonybear61
10-Sep-21
Sorry to break it to Biden and Psaki OSHA is not a medical institution, the vaccine issue is a medical issue. They need to stay out of it. By the way the last time Biden had an executive order for a ETS it came many months after the deadline, and only covered one industry. Puddin brain certainly didn't write the order , we need to find out who did. OSHA nor the Administration has not provided any clues as to when the updated, new ETS is due. Lawsuits were filed literally minutes after it was officially announced. Expect major delays. If this technique fails (as many think it should ) what will be their next aggressive action?? Tie testing to DNA and build a database so they know exactly who has been vaccinated or not vaccinated??

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21
Well said 3rd Degree. It's the way they're pushing it that have people on edge. It's agenda driven.

10-Sep-21
"Here you go over 7000 deaths reported by the CDC."

can you copy and past the part where it says 7000 deaths were caused by the vaccine?

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
3rd degree..spot on. Amazing how many dont realize our nation was not formed as a "Democracy" but a "Republic". Its been a battle right out the gate to hold on to a Republic form of government..where legislators are suppose to be "restrained" by our constitution. Democracy is basicly a mob rule.

From: AZ8
10-Sep-21

AZ8's Link

From: TGbow
10-Sep-21
AZ8. ..she avoided the question..imagine that

10-Sep-21
"Someone else on here made the comment that most primary physicians don't know enough about covid. Then WHY are we going to see them, and WHY do I care what they think about the shot?"

That was me.

And it's true because it's not your average family doc's job to know a lot about COVID. That comment was in reference to the "experts." Your family doc's job is to know enough about COVID to tell you that you should get the shot and the average doc is doing that as the average doc is vaccinated.

The people that know a lot about COVID are the ER docs at the big hospitals, the Intensivists, etc, the people taking care of the very sick people and the people in the academic institutions, the epidemiologists, the immunologists, the pulmonologists, these are the people that you should be listening to and they are saying overwhelmingly that you should get it. They are the ones that actually know what they're talking about - not lay people who got their info off of FB, a cousin, or an alt-right/left "news" website.

And the general disdain and disrespect for Health Care Workers/Provider/Doctors/etc that's been spewed on this thread is common for what we have to deal with on a regular basis. A generally unthankful population that disrespect who we are and what we do. But whatever, it is what it is. Just remember though, karma's a bitch. Remember your words the next time you walk in to an ER with your child on the edge of death or your dismembered hand in a bag. I've seen so many lives saved and so much good done through so much beneficence by HCWs over the decades all the while being spat on and accused of nonsense.

From: tm
10-Sep-21
My biggest complaint is that a bowhunting site such as this has more responses about a damn virus than anything pertaining to bow hunting this time of year. Hell if there is not anything else to hunt or any seasons open air your opinion, but really in that fall when seasons are open?

From: 3rd Degree
10-Sep-21
Yes Idyllwild, I know that was you. And let me make this perfectly clear, I do not have a distain for med pro's. Just like every other industry, there are more good than bad.

So please correct me, I think I totally took what you said the wrong way....... my primary doesn't know enough about Covid to treat me, just enough to tell me to get the shot. But he is not a vax/shot expert either. So, which is it? He either has the knowledge required to speak, or he is just spewing rhetoric. Can't be both my friend.

As far as the other and more knowledgeable that you referenced, pretty sure I can find just as many nay's as yay's. Just depends how hard you want to look. As I said before, there is so much crap out there, you can find what you want to support whatever position you want to take.

Full disclosure ... I Honestly don't care what you reply with. My mind is made up. So is yours. You've stated your position. I have stated mine. Nothing is going to change either. We will part friends. The difference is, I am not going to try and shame you to conform. You made your choice, and that is YOUR choice. Nothing to do with me. And I respect your decision, as you should respect mine.

From: Matt
10-Sep-21
"YOU have to be your own advocate in today’s COVID world. Not your doctor. Go with your instincts."

Terrible advice. I am all for advocating for yourself when healthcare is concerned, but to suggest that laypeople ignore their doctor's advice is foolish. That is how people start taking veterinary products and ending up in the ER as a result.

"So almost 14,000 people died from the vaccine but yet no big deal because the number is small compared to the total number vaccinated."

No, that is not the case as has been explained multiple times in this very thread.

"World population. 7.85 billion. WW covid deaths. 4,611,170. Chances of you dying from the Covid 19. 0.0587%. Shove your x-vaxs where the sun dont shine o'biden-ho."

So, put it right next to your critical thinking skills?

This site has become almost unbelievable with the amount of misinformation that has been passed around.

From: Lawdy
10-Sep-21
I got vaccinated because I wanted to, plus I am a first responder. I don’t care if my neighbor isn’t because, odds are I am covered. I don’t believe that Biden really cares about this issue. It is a way to divide people and belittle. Most of all it is a way to deflect from the botched evacuation from Afghanistan and the one’s who were maimed and died. Biden is not our president, the press is. What they are too egotistical to realize is that in every revolution, the journalists and reporters are among the first to die. As far as getting more vaccinated, what kind of fool thinks that insults, ostracizing, and refusing service is going to work?

From: 3rd Degree
10-Sep-21
You got it Lawdy.

I guess plain and simple, minds are made up. So go ahead, keep shaming, guilting, buying, paying, yelling, coercing threatening, blackmailing, blacklisting, starving, forcing... whatever tactic you want.

Looks like the line in the sand might get drawn soon.

From: Thornton
10-Sep-21
Idylkwylde has some good points I agree with, but I have seen and treated vaccinated covid patients that were sick enough to be admitted. That being said, my county has the highest population of unvaccinated people and it has the highest number of covid patients. I know of several extremely ill folks right now and a couple that died. Last year's covid was a cakewalk compared to this year's variety for my area.

From: blackbear62
10-Sep-21
Biden stated that he was responsible for the safety of all Americans. Ok. So why not mandate all Americans must be vaccinated. He didn't do that, he put it on OSHA. OSHA rules affect only employers. So, employers with less than 100 employee, stay home parents, students, the unemployed and retired are not mandated. He closed the northern border and let's 1000s cross the southern border. So how exactly does this protect all Americans. Who's he trying to protect? If he has authority to mandate vaccinations he's done another half assed job. But least we forget our government made this virus.

From: Milhouse
11-Sep-21
Anyone see the video of Joe wandering off, whilst his wife was giving a speach on something or another ( I'm sure it was pretty important)? He literally just walked off.... middle of the speech. Like he saw a butterfly or something. Eventually, someone turned him around, and got him to stand back on stage... probably promised him a warm choccy chip cookie.

THIS is the guy trying to tell YOU what is "best for you".... and some of you eat it up like you're auditioning for a yogurt commercial. My question is.... not what is wrong with Joe Biden (he's clearly cooked... put a fork in him), but WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Anyone who could keep defending this guy as being even semi viable as the President of the United States, well, let's just say almost all of your M&Ms must be the same color.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) Here you go Ricky.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Sep-21
Spike78,

Why not copy and paste the rest of that paragraph? Oh, I know, because it doesn't fit your ignorant narrative. You're special, dude.

Matt

From: LINK
11-Sep-21
If I have learned anything from this thread it’s that death by COVID and death by vaccination use the same accounting. Lol Both are less than one percent.

11-Sep-21
Exactly. So, I’m lost why it matters. Until the chicken Little’s start shaming folks for not getting on board with “their” plan. Then I figure what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

There is a virus going around. It might kill you. You might choke to death today to. On your breakfast. What now?

There are a list of things time has shown to be effective in the short term, of preventing severe illness. The vax being one of them. But, stats say the real thing doesn’t present severe illness. To almost everyone.

So, I can’t get my mind around the reality that individuals aren’t given the chance to decide what’s best for themselves. I reckon that freedom is in danger of being eradicated. And, we are still going to be fighting this virus.

But, they’ll feel better knowing you are “doing your part” to protect them. Good grief. SMH.

From: Bowbender
11-Sep-21
85 years ago, a demented man vilified a group of people. Claimed they were dangerous to the country, the world. That they are responsible for the current situation and for the damage done. This group was set apart for ridicule. Oppression. Hatred.

Ronald Regan once said “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on to them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

That generation, that time, is here. Freedom and safety are not mutually exclusive. Nor are they synonyms.

11-Sep-21
Been spending the summer in a blue state whose governor just quit. Leaving next week to get back to my red homeland home where I am a much freer old man.

11-Sep-21
"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) Here you go Ricky."

wasn't there more to that sentence and paragraph? why did you only copy and paste part of it?

From: thedude
11-Sep-21
I work for the feds. Most supervisors where I work don’t know how many employees they have. Typically it’s 50% of the workforce present and maybe 25% actually working but nobody knows for sure. Good luck tracking and implementation especially with the unionized areas that won’t agree to anything until more bargaining has occurred. Also fat chance requiring contractors to meet the requirements. Finding contractors without a warrant and a valid vehicle registration is hard enough without adding in vaccine status.

I imagine this being a shit show that will be in the courts for years.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
GG I didn’t post the rest because the rest is a big load of crap. Just be honest tell us how many people died from the vaccine and end the sentence.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
Ricky the rest of the sentence is crap. The CDC originally had the deaths at 12,000 then it was 6000 now it’s 7000 so that’s what I’m going with.

From: Nemophilist
11-Sep-21
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/members-congress-aides-exempt-bidens-vax-mandate/

From: Grey Ghost
11-Sep-21
Spikey,

So, you choose to believe one part of the paragraph, but not the rest? You're so cute.

Matt

From: Mule Power
11-Sep-21
Freedom, my freedom, has no price. I make the decisions concerning my health. I would drive or carpool to wherever, Alaska etc to hunt before I bend over and take it in the ass from politicians and their big money partners in crime.

I’m the exact opposite of a hypochondriac. I barely take an Aleve when my joints hurt and so far to my knowledge zero deaths from Aleve.

There are currently about 6500 people from all over the country and all over the world where I work. The numbers match with the outside world. Maybe a hair higher and “they” say the spike is going to be bad. They. Pfft. I had Covid and lived to tell about it. I feel great. Meanwhile just yesterday I got news that a friend’s son has Covid. Their entire family is vaccinated.

This crap reminds me of the movie War of the Worlds. Sheep I tell ya!

From: HDE
11-Sep-21
"I reckon that freedom is in danger of being eradicated."

The funny part about that is that people have been duped to think that incompetent morons placed into positions of borrowed and delegated authority actually have the power to remove freedom from millions of people. That in itself is the biggest hoax in the history of histories for mankind...

From: TGbow
11-Sep-21
HDE, Spiot on! Ive been sayin that for a long time..

From: Grey Ghost
11-Sep-21
Shawn Magyar,

Don't you ever tire of being kicked off the Bowsite, only to return under a new fake registration? Why not register under your real name, per Pat's rules, and stop with the charade?

Matt

From: KSflatlander
11-Sep-21
How is JV (Shawn Magyar) “been in ET today of 4th largest city in worst covid state in nation right now” on this tread and Zap (also Shawn Magyar) is elk hunting at the same time on the “What’s this bull go” thread?

From: Ermine
11-Sep-21
Funny how these people are all for forced vaccinations but are totally all for abortions. Doesn’t make sense. How many babies are killed? They obviously don’t care about deaths only about control

11-Sep-21
spike78

do you understand there is a difference between dying after getting vaccinated and dying because of the vaccination? you could say the same thing about all those people who died only change the after getting vaccinated part to after brushing their teeth. medical professionals are required by law to report any death within a certain period of time after the vaccination, regardless of what the cause of death was.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
Yeah Ricky perfectly healthy people dying 1 day to 3 weeks after getting the vaccine died of other causes.

From: KSflatlander
11-Sep-21

From: 2Wild Bill
11-Sep-21
It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

11-Sep-21
I agree Bill.

Good luck to the government trying to force this shot on people. They are going to need it when the rubber meets the road.

From: Treeline
11-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
From a friend today:

I present to you the “New World Order” in one image.

Who could ever imagine a world where there is no other crime so that 7 obese police officers would be free to arrest a person who sits in silence alone away from the world.

Not wearing a mask anymore makes you a more dangerous criminal than murderers, rapists, thieves and fraudsters. And some still think it's about viros...

From: TGbow
11-Sep-21
Treeline, that's the part lot of people dont get..where this leads to

From: Treeline
11-Sep-21
Where it is.

From: Ermine
11-Sep-21
655,000 Americans die from heart disease a year?

How comes they don’t mandate healthy eating and exercise??

From: TGbow
11-Sep-21
True

From: TGbow
11-Sep-21
Justin, this is a convenient way for them to gain more control..just like the situation with the Patriot Act

From: Ermine
11-Sep-21
Yep my thoughts. They don’t really care about deaths it’s just opportunity to control and regulate.

From: Moosemania
11-Sep-21
Spike when you have a sample of like 150 million people which is just a guess on how many Americans have taken the vaccine. Yes some perfectly healthy people are going to die that day the next day and so on. It doesn't mean the vaccine caused them to die. Seems like a very simple thing to grasp. You give 150 million people a glass of water and a small number will die the next day, someone on here already walked you through this. This thread has taught me a few lessons and one is people will believe what they want and will search the ends of the earth for proof to back their beliefs. Facts be damned!

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
Well when I read about a healthy woman in her 30’s die a couple after the vaccine it makes me go hmm.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21

spike78's Link
Here’s a link for that story.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21

spike78's Link
And another

From: spike78
11-Sep-21

spike78's Link
And yet another

From: spike78
11-Sep-21

spike78's Link
This one died later on in the day she got the vaccine.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21

spike78's Link
Man my fingers are getting tired geez. This one shows 2 women dying from J&J vaccine. Oh and along with these articles I came across a bunch saying fully vaccinated woman died from Covid but we won’t get into that.

From: LINK
11-Sep-21
There’s a 5’9” 115 pound athletic girl that had COVID this last year in my little town. After “recovering” any time she tried playing basketball for a few minutes her heart would race and not quit for hours. Some days she’d sleep most of the day and always be tired. It’s not common as some on here would say. Maybe just a “few” people get it. It only stands to reason that when you shoot this virus into the arms of millions of adults that compared to her are obese and unhealthy, whether they are or not, that many not just a “few” will have heart issues. Why would you want to keep pumping this crap into people even after they’ve had the disease but only for money and government funding that is received off it. It’s pretty easy to understand why someone, in an industry that has been cured of every other illness ;) , would push shots for the masses and not just the at risk that haven’t all ready had the disease.

From: azelkhntr
11-Sep-21
Take the X-vaxs and you will die. The very best thing you can do for yourselves is to keep up on the zinc and D3. The little horn o'biden-ho is comparing these experimental gene altering drugs to the need for the polio vaccine. Apples aren't oranges and dr. fauxi is no Dr. Jonas Salk. Furthermore, in the 1950's we didn't have such ready availability to discover knowledge and weren't yet overrun with marxists. The x-vaxs are a CCP PLA bio-weapon and we're the intended target. Don't let fear kill you.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Sep-21
178 million US citizens have been fully vaccinated. Spikey searches the web and finds 4 cases of death that may, or may not, be related to the vaccines. All are still undetermined at this point. So, his conclusion is the vaccines are horribly deadly and should be avoided. Totally logical.

Matt

From: TGbow
11-Sep-21
https://www.bodychek.co.uk/uncategorized/4898/phd-cellular-molecular-biologist-explains-why-the-un-jabbed-are-not-selfish/

From: Bowfreak
11-Sep-21
You don't get a virus shot into your arm.

From: LINK
11-Sep-21
It’s gentic material from COVID inserted into a virus. You can split hairs if you’d like. Many of the side effects are the same as the virus.

From: rjlefty3
11-Sep-21
To point out the hypocrisy in some arguments

Response to COVID related deaths (from getting the actual virus): 'these mortality numbers are inflated! There's no way those are all are deaths from COVID. This information is misleading!'

Response to COVID related deaths (from vaccine using the same criteria for inclusion): 'see how dangerous the vaccine is! It's killing thousands!'

and... Response to getting COVID vaccine (before it was officially approved of course): 'I don't want to be a pin-cushion experiment! There is no data to show it's safe - there's no way I want any part of that!'

Response to use of ivermectin for COVID (despite having no evidence to support it's use in COVID at this point in time - there's a difference between in vitro and in vivo): 'it's a miracle drug! That's the drug I want!

I work in an ICU in one of the busier hospitals in the state. 95% of our ICU patients who are COVID positive are unvaccinated. And if you end up ICU - your prognosis is not good. FWIW - I have not seen a single patient who presented with a reaction from the vaccine.

We are running out of ventilators - that includes all those pts who get admitted for reasons unrelated to COVID as well. At current state, COVID patients are taking up all of our resources (ICU beds, vents, meds which are now on shortage, and of course nurses and other healthcare workers - who are all burnt out and leaving their jobs and leaving departments short staffed).

Imagine being in a serious car accident and not having the necessary medical care you need. It's not that far from that here. And I'm sure we aren't the only ones.

If you look at this from a pure mortality standpoint, you're missing the most concerning aspects to this disease.

11-Sep-21
Hmmmmm.... Crap. Here goes.

I got vaccinated. My family got vaccinated. My oldest has asthma. We did our own risk assessment and spoke with doctors we respect.

I am not a sheep. I am not a shill for the CCP. I think an awful lot of this has been a cluster. I think plenty of people are capitalizing on this. It’s human nature.

Do I believe that I have the right to force someone to do something? No.

Do I believe that getting vaccinated is prudent? Yes. Not because of being told. But because of the math that I’ve looked at. And anecdotal cases that I know of. I am not as concerned about statistical mortality from Covid, which is small. The Long Haul impacts of Covid are more frequent and bad enough.

So. I don’t agree with those who are anti-vaxxers. Because I weighed things out differently. But I’m not going to carry on about them.

Well... if you think that the vaccine is going to make spoons stick to you or that injected micro-chips will broadcast government propaganda through your fillings, I might comment.

But I can understand concerns about early adoption.

I got vaxxed. I’m not dead yet. My family got vaxxed. They’re not dead yet. If the CCP PLA targeted us, they missed so far.

If you have a doctor or hospital or clinic that you would trust if you had a medical emergency and needed help, maybe ask their opinion of the vaccines. Make your decision. If you get really sick, you’d go to them, right?

Antibodies from natural infection are apparently superior, but may come with costs other than 1.8% mortality. Your decision.

But... maybe take a breather. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a cretinous, mouth-breathing, sheeple, Illuminati, whatever. On either side of the issue. Some data has been collected. Some knowledge and statistics gained, but there are a lot of unknowns.

Recognize that you are making decisions with incomplete information.

And just as an aside. No CCP shill. I’m Swedish. Scandinavians are commonly Vitamin D deficient. So, yeah. I’m taking some D3, Zinc, N Acetyl Cysteine, Vitamin K to supplement trying to eat right, get good sleep, exercise and wash my hands frequently... just like Grandma advocated. Figure it might help, can’t hurt and my investment is about $0.28 per day.

YMMV

I wish you all the best.

From: drycreek
11-Sep-21
Ike, thanks for explaining to me why the ER doc didn’t really give a damn about my blood pressure. He basically told me what you did, but since my BP has been in the neighborhood of 120/85 for years I kinda thought that was a little too high. BTW, it was that high for several days before I went to the ER, like every night for a couple weeks. After covid at Christmas, my BP, blood sugar, and cholesterol all shot up. Every doctor I went to knew nothing that would help. This included my regular doc, a pulmonary specialist, (BTW I never had real breathing problems), and three visits to the University of Texas hospital to a “Post Covid” clinic. Saw three different people there that didn’t know anything that would help my post covid symptoms. I had a heart attack the first week of June and my doc said I had 90% blockage in two arteries, until covid I never had a blockage or cholesterol problem. They put two stents in and sent me home with a bunch more meds. My bathroom counter looks like a fricking drug store. Still no post covid relief. Finally got an online doc to prescribe ivermactin and after a ten day regimen of that and two more meds that I can’t remember the names I am finally on the mend. Make of that what you will. Oh yeah, I had the Moderna shots in March and they helped a little with the post covid crap, which is the only reason I took them. A drowning man will grasp at a styrofoam cup !

For the “must get the vax guys”, if y’all think the vax is foolproof and will protect you, why must others get it ? Everybody that wants it gets it, they’re protected, who cares about the “no vaxxers” ? They’ve made their decision and it can’t hurt you, right ? Right ?

From: deerhunter72
11-Sep-21

From: deerhunter72
11-Sep-21
Well stated Rick!

Drycreek, I also have two stents in the LAD. I also have never had high cholesterol. I was 43 at the time of stenting. My problem is bad genetics passed down from my mothers family. Maybe a doc can chime in here, but coronary artery blockages develop over time, they don’t don’t build up over a period of a few weeks. If the blockage gets to the point of restricting flow then they cause chest pain symptoms. If the blockage breaks loose and becomes a clot then you are really screwed. Nobody knows how long they’ve had a blockage unless they are having it checked regularly, and I know for sure that I’m not signing up for a yearly heart cath because of the radiation and cost. If you weren’t implying that COVID caused your heart issues then please excuse me, I apologize.

From: deerhunter72
11-Sep-21
Drycreek, I should add that very early on in COVID it was reported that people with coronary artery disease like you and I were at a much great risk for developing severe COVID issues. This was a large factor in my decision to get the vaccine.

From: Bowfreak
11-Sep-21
Same with me deer hunter. Triple bypass at 47. Having CAD made it a no brainer for me.

From: spike78
11-Sep-21
Finally got an online doc to prescribe ivermactin and after a ten day regimen of that and two more meds that I can’t remember the names I am finally on the mend. Make of that what you will. Oh yeah, I had the Moderna shots in March and they helped a little with the post covid crap, which is the only reason I took them. A drowning man will grasp at a styrofoam cup !

Wait that can’t be true the government says Ivermectin does not work abort abort!!!

From: drycreek
11-Sep-21
Deerhunter, I’ve had afib for years, hell I wore out one pacemaker and I’m on my second one. Despite that my heart doc has assured me many times that I had no blockage. A fat guy ain’t supposed to have low cholesterol or make ten minutes on the treadmill. (Although the last two or three minutes was a ball breaker). The blockage, the heart attack, the BP and blood sugar weren’t my only symptoms, just the worst. From December of 2020 until a month ago I felt like crap. No energy, and no desire to do anything. Missed my spring turkey hunt, my spring axis hunt and several local fishing trips because I just didn’t feel like going. At last I’m feeling better, in fact I mowed roads and plots on our deer lease the last three days. The way I feel fluctuates up and down but for the last month it’s been like gas prices. They go up and down but they don’t ever quite get down to where they used to be. I’ll take that ! ;-)

From: deerhunter72
11-Sep-21
Drycreek, glad that you are feeling better. The lack of energy sounds familiar. The last several months before I had the first stent I was so fatigued everyday that I would come home and take a nap after work. I was 43 and in pretty good shape. At times I literally wanted to lay down in the floor because I was so tired. I didn’t correlate what was happening until after the blockage was discovered. Heart disease is a life changer.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Sep-21
Drycreek and Deerhunter,

My father suffered from heart disease like you, so I'm familiar with your fight. He had quadruple bypass surgery at 65, and eventually died of congestive heart failure at 82. Genetics often trumps lifestyle choices. Fortunately, I seem to have inherited my Mother's heart genes. At 59 I show none of the classic symptoms of heart problems, even though I still foolishly engage in a few unhealthy habits.

I guess you have to play the cards God deals to you. It sounds like you are making the most out of the hands you were dealt. I'll think of you in my prayers, my friends. Thanks for sharing your situations.

Matt

From: deerhunter72
11-Sep-21
Grey Ghost, thanks for the kind words! Didn’t mean to derail the thread here. Yup, gotta play the hand you’re dealt. Genetics trump everything. Glad that you got the good ones!

11-Sep-21
"Yeah Ricky perfectly healthy people dying 1 day to 3 weeks after getting the vaccine died of other causes."

can you cut and paste the part in the CDC link that you provided that said all those people were perfectly healthy?

From: TD
11-Sep-21
Some of you still think Fausi is legit and real "science" or the CDC is the end all.... well, maybe except for when they are wrong, or lying or carrying political water.....

IMO it's not the vax that is the question. Good, bad, antibody immunity, treatments.... necessary or not so much, that's up for fair honest debate IMO. And do what you see as best for YOU. I will say, never take anything these megalomaniacs say on face value. You think none of this has been played for politics you're naive at best and I'll leave it at that.

It's the psychos that DEMAND you get yours.... or else. You have people, whack job elitist along with some medical professionals staging "walk outs" saying if non-vaxed get sick they shouldn't be treated. Funny no mention that the real threat to one's life is you might be Fat Bastard and should be denied by the same logic. Drug user, alcoholic, smoker, gang banger with gunshot wounds..... that's cool, deny them all. Naw... nothing crazy here, move along....

I'm tired of the crazy and paranoid. Just go away, leave me alone, sit down and STFU. Or go crawl into your hole and pull the dirt in after you in fear. They don't run my life, and have no right to tell me what I must have injected into my body. That is the epitome, the very definition of personal freedom. Do what you want. Get 5 vaxes, wear 3 masks while locked in your house or car. I. Don't. Care.

I'm vaxed. For now. I'm not getting another one.... because they are and never were honest about this one. Telling me now I'll need another. And another. And another. You are demanded to live in catatonic fear..... of something they won't even tell you the current fatality rate of because it's such a low percentage. Hint: it's a good deal less than they have said, as they are now ramping up how many have have it that weren't "counted" as had it and recovered. Nor will they even discuss things like acquired immunity effectiveness, preventative options being studied, etc. That just muddies up their plans. Much less talk about Fausi et al lying about $3+million given to Wuhan to study GOF which was verboten here, so they do the end around and then lie to Congress about it.

I'm vaxed but after listening to the threats and demands of House Plant and others I want to tear up that card and toss it in their faces. You want folks to get vaxed? Calling names, threats and making demands isn't going to do it. You just picked a fight, not convinced someone it was the right call for them. Great job. You're talking more respectfully to the flippin' Taliban.

When I was a kid I hated beets. If told I couldn't leave the table till I ate them all.... wake me up when it's time for school, I'm sleeping here in this chair all night and will pizz on the floor if I have to go. Spank me, beat me..... I ain't eating them, I don't care they are good for me. Same attitude packing elk, pretty much everything. I imagine many of the more successful bowhunters have some form or another of this, um, attitude. Some are successful on pure talent.... some just have no give up and the more resistance the greater the fight.

Where is this headed? When will it end? Crickets. We were already promised no mandates, no mandatory shots. More lies on top of other lies when they need cover, compliance.... obedience. Just like 2 weeks to flatten the curve. No political advantage in that.

Next phase.... well, in the 1930s it was a neck tattoo.... these modern Nazi's are talking embedded chips for passes, vaccine updates and contact tracing. For the Globalist New World Order.

Who is the Emperor behind our Demented Darth Vader?

From: TEmbry
12-Sep-21
Life is easier when out hunting… just got back from a week on Kodiak. Godspeed any healthcare workers giving an opinion on a topic that CNN or Foxnews hasn’t already covered. No one is a better advocate for their car than themselves, may tell my mechanic that the knocking I hear isn’t a valve… that I saw on google that it was my air filter and the government is behind this.

As for my personal belief, for most of us the vaccine won’t matter for us directly. The numbers don’t lie, most of us survive just fine. But the stories floating around aren’t most of us. Guy from my highschool in his mid 30s, on a vent(true story). I had Covid last October and hiked mountains all week never knowing I was even sick(gasp, true story).

Annecdotal doesn’t work for data. Everyone knows a guy. The disease is survivable by most of the population. The vaccine is far more survivable regardless what numbers you use. We talk of freedoms but snub our nose at safe remedies to potentially get us back to a normalcy in society.

I do pray vaccines remain a choice for all of us. I also pray that everyone stops trying to be a know it all and makes the best choice for themselves based off of the advice of others who know more than them on this topic. I got a doctorate in pharmacy and chose for myself to get the vaccine, my wife also chose to as well (believe it or not from no pressure from me, we both naturally had Covid already). If you don’t, I’ll still share a campfire with you. But I’ve read the numbers without a political spin. If I was 70 or diabetic or had COPD, I likely wouldn’t share that same campfire with you.

I just hate how both sides made a medical decision their line in the sand for political rants that have gone on for generations… leave the country open, let people choose, and make the data readily available. Unfortunately, social media has made unbiased opinions in my utopia impossible. Small town doctors who see 100 patients a year told my neighbor the opposite of an epidemiologist so who am I to believe.

You aren’t alone in your confusion. I didn’t and honestly don’t care if I catch Covid. But I pray every day my parents get vaccinated, and I got vaccinated myself 4 months after having it. I trust the hard data and despite my thoughts on government overreach I believe my choice to be a safe choice for 99.99% of Americans. That may be the nanochips talking though…

From: bowyer45
12-Sep-21
I don't have time to read all the posts ,so this might be repetition, but we cannot let this kind of commands to come from the executive branch, If allowed to go unchecked the next step is worse. Our freedoms are worth more than our lives. If you feel differently you won't have them long.

12-Sep-21
Tembry for the win.

I can’t say vaccination for everyone is the best or not. I do not believe that at this point. But, I’ll respect anybody’s decision to do as they see fit. As long as I get the same in return.

12-Sep-21
" don't have time to read all the posts ,so this might be repetition, but we cannot let this kind of commands to come from the executive branch, If allowed to go unchecked the next step is worse. Our freedoms are worth more than our lives. If you feel differently you won't have them long. "

There is a precedent for Presidents requiring vaccines going back to George Washington. They are limited in who they can require but they definitely have precedent for doing this.

TEmbry - you are spot on.

From: TGbow
12-Sep-21
George, they do a lot of things that shouldnt be done for sure...both parties are guilty. The Patriot Act was one of the worse things that we"ve seen come down the pike. Democrat or Republican...either can strip away our freedoms and it always seems to happen during war time or some sort of crisis.

From: Nemophilist
12-Sep-21
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/members-congress-aides-exempt-bidens-vax-mandate/

From: Bowbender
12-Sep-21
"There is a precedent for Presidents requiring vaccines going back to George Washington. They are limited in who they can require but they definitely have precedent for doing this."

Yes, GW required his troops at Valley Forge, already in bad shape and starting to be ravaged by smallpox required his troops to be innoculated. Standing army. Time of war. Stake of the nation in balance. With a disease that had a mortality rate of 30%. Yes, striking similar to todays situation.

From: BowenAero
12-Sep-21

BowenAero's Link
A lot of you aren't old enough to remember this, but I do. Didn't take the jab then , won't take it now. Takes a little bit for the video to start, give it time

From: Norseman
12-Sep-21
Yes I refuse to take Lisinopril which my Dr. Prescribed based on what it was doing to me. I know take Losartan for my hypertension.

Just a FYI moment

From: RK
12-Sep-21
Lisinopril ? Really ?

From: HDE
13-Sep-21
"There is a precedent for Presidents requiring vaccines going back to George Washington. They are limited in who they can require but they definitely have precedent for doing this."

Except we have a lunatic mandating it and not a president....

13-Sep-21
"By vaccinating the unvaccinated, increasing our testing and masking, and protecting the vaccinated, we can end this pandemic. That’s exactly what we are committed to doing,"

Kamala Harris

Too bad the vaccine doesn't protect the vaccinated. Experts and leaders get an F for messaging during Covid.

13-Sep-21
Co-worker had 2 Moderna shots hospitalized with Covid now

From: TGbow
13-Sep-21
3 guys where I work were vaxed..they got Covid

From: LINK
13-Sep-21
You guys need to quit spouting your anecdotal evidence. The only person that knows anything about this and has the right to come to a conclusion is the CDC and Anthony Faucci. ;)

From: HDE
13-Sep-21
^^^ That's all those two base recommendations on anyway, so...

13-Sep-21
As time goes forward it’s coming to light despite best efforts to cover it up that vaxed recipients are indeed catching and passing on the Rona.

From: BC173
13-Sep-21
^^^ what TEmbry said. ^^^

I’m in the same boat, but I couldn’t have said it so perfectly.

From: BowSniper
13-Sep-21
If the government REALLY wanted to encourage more participation they could remove blanket immunity from the drug companies making the vaccine.

It's one thing to consider the risks (small as they may be) and make the choice for yourself. But it's another thing entirely to force an injection on people and deny them any legal recourse for future illness or death if that 'small risk' grows larger over time and you hit the unlucky lottery...

From: JBG
13-Sep-21
Singapore is 80% vaccinated, most early this year. The Vax has a limited time for producing antibodies to protect them it would seem. There is no doubt that boosters are in our future the keep sufficient levels of anitbodies. On other hand there are people that have been having anti bodies pulled every 2 months since Jan of last year. Some still have higher antibody levels than people that were vaccinated after 5 months. Simply put, these jabs are good for only about 6-8 months. They will be part of the answer at least until a more powerful one is developed over time. The question is: Will Pharma want a better one that lasts longer? JB G

From: Matt
13-Sep-21

Matt's Link
"As time goes forward it’s coming to light despite best efforts to cover it up that vaxed recipients are indeed catching and passing on the Rona."

Attached is a link to a CBS news article from June 25, 2021 which speaks to breakthrough COVID cases due to the Delta variant. I suppose that article blew the doors off the "cover up" which you are just now being clued into? Joking aside, this topic has been covered extensively by the media for the last ~3 months and should come as no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

13-Sep-21

4nolz@work's embedded Photo
4nolz@work's embedded Photo

From: TGbow
13-Sep-21
Lol..funny but true

From: Grey Ghost
13-Sep-21
Simple question. Who, exactly, is being "forced" to get vaccinated for COVID?

Matt

From: itshot
13-Sep-21
GG, depends on definitions of who, vaccinated, covid, is, forced, exactly, being, simple, get, wtf really, is is and question

if you want to get philosophical, nobody

if you want to find answers, feel free to gjoogle it up

From: Grey Ghost
13-Sep-21
It's not a philosophical, question, Greg. It's black or white.

I'll ask one more time. Who, exactly, is being "forced" to get vaccinated for Covid?

Matt

From: kyrob
13-Sep-21
Unless something changes, all Federal contractors are going to be required to get the shot. No one is going to hold them down and force it on them but it's gonna suck really bad to give up 125K a year to not take it. That seems to be the choices some are being given. Take it to keep your job or go home.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Sep-21
When you live off the government tit, you default your privileges to complain about it. That goes for a lot of career choices.

Matt

From: Matt
13-Sep-21
This vaccine thing is getting way out of hand. Pretty soon they are going to expect kids to start taking them before they are able to go to kindergarten.

From: deerhunter72
13-Sep-21
I believe you will have a “choice” of getting the vaccine or being tested weekly, if this is allowed to stand. Naturally, the thinking is people won’t want to put up with the hassle of being tested so they will take the shot.

From: JBG
14-Sep-21
Everyone who works in US military and now all who work for the government are being forced to get the Jab Mr.Ghost. Except, Congress and the Federal Judges. Not a philosophical answer.

JB G

From: Treeline
14-Sep-21
And, anyone working in a company with more than 100 employees.

From: BowSniper
14-Sep-21

BowSniper's Link
Who is being forced?

This Navy Academy assist football coach, for example...

From: Kannuck
14-Sep-21
Unfortunately trying to convince someone to get the shot that doesn't want to get the shot is similar to convincing flat-earthers that the earth is spherical. No matter what evidence you have to prove them wrong, or what expert you quote, they will never change their mind. It can be infuriating if you let it. I personally don't care if you're vaccinated or not, I was taught to try my best to keep my nose out of other peoples business. (I do agree that it should be a choice) But, being a pHD in Google search to try and find evidence that the vaccine is ineffective or reasons not to get it and then spewing your new-found "knowledge" at anyone who will listen, I don't agree with.

Why don't you talk to your family doctor or someone who works in a critical care hospital their opinion?

I chose to listen to my mother - who is a retired 30+ year virologist who spent her career working on ways to try and control, eliminate, and prevent viruses that were known and lay a path toward being able to quickly develop new ways to control, eliminate and prevent viruses that will inevitably show up. This is what science is. I choose to trust the science.

From: krieger
14-Sep-21
Where the actual truth lays, who knows. I am reminded of all the state-of-the-art experts in historical society....whalers never making it past 40 years of age, because we figured out how cool and easy it was to seal tin cans with molten lead. Poisoned 2 generations... Filling airships with unstable light gases wasn't the best idea either......Dr's used to prescribe mercury for ailments, not to mention cigarettes....and cocaine...

WHAT we think we know at any given time is NOT what reality often is...... ie any hour of TV programming will have ambulance chasers trying to find victims of Pharma damaged folks that have taken drugs, APPROVED by the FDA, and later found out (insert Gomer Pile-" SURPRISE SURPRISE "here... ) to have unintended consequences...by the hundreds.....I will do you a favor and not even mention Asbestos and Roundup, or DDT....you're welcome.

I've seen enough slant and spin, that I don't blindly take what the CDC nor the FDA says as gospel...I believe this Admin on this subject, just as much as I believe them on the debacle in AFG...they are inept shills at best. Couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

No one mentioned the big resignations at the FDA this week....hmmmm. I wonder what's up with that???

Lead by example, Biden and staff should all get " vaccines " every Monday morning, on TV, along with Congress...every last one of them.

Nobody cares about the death rate of people , if they did, alcohol, tobacco, street drugs, HIV transmission , out of wedlock child bearing, big boxes of twinkies, Busch Light, etc would all be illegal and perpetrators dealt with by immediate imprisonment and/or euthanasia. Drop the so called concern for your countrymen, admit it's the fear you have for yourself. Isolate until it's over if you think that's the most prudent action, but let the rest of us live.

While we are kneeling to " the science " , bloated inept Gov't agencies, huge Pharmaceutical Corporations ( remember when Haliburton was the devil?? ) Faucism, etc .....let us be real and actually worship at the Altar of Darwinism, like we've been taught for the last 30 years. Natural Selection is.....well....natural. Let Nature run it's course.

From: JBG
14-Sep-21
x1

From: bigeasygator
14-Sep-21
Everyone who works in US military and now all who work for the government are being forced to get the Jab Mr.Ghost. Except, Congress and the Federal Judges. Not a philosophical answer.

And, anyone working in a company with more than 100 employees.

No, they aren't being forced to. They have other options, as Matt is rightly pointing out.

Who is being forced? This Navy Academy assist football coach, for example...

The article clearly says he didn't get the shot. So, again, not forced.

From: TGbow
14-Sep-21
"A lie doesn't become truth, right doesn't become wrong, evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority"

Booker T Washington

Words of wisdom badly needed in the US today.

From: Treeline
14-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
Safe - questionable Effective - also questionable

14-Sep-21
I'm likely never going to support mandated vaccines although I certainly have dealt with them like most.

Until they include "positive Covid antibody test" along with "proof of vaccine" and "negative Covid test"as options, they aren't even approaching mandates logically. Still wouldn't gain my support but at least it would be recognizing the science.

40 million + in the US may have natural immunity likely superior to the vaccine.

From: midwest
14-Sep-21
"Everyone who works in US military and now all who work for the government are being forced to get the Jab Mr.Ghost. Except, Congress and the Federal Judges. Not a philosophical answer. And, anyone working in a company with more than 100 employees.

No, they aren't being forced to. They have other options, as Matt is rightly pointing out."

I suppose if they made it mandatory you can't drive a car without being vaccinated or tested weekly you, technically, aren't being forced, either.

From: midwest
14-Sep-21
I wonder how they came up with the "100 employees" number? Why not 98...or 107...or 26...or...?

From: Catscratch
14-Sep-21
"I wonder how they came up with the "100 employees" number? Why not 98...or 107...or 26...or...?".

Same way the came up with 6ft social distancing... it was a reasonable number pulled out of their a#@ (less than 22' but greater than 1'). I see this as a great way to ensure a lot of people get fired from companies that have 103 employees, and not hired by companies that have 97 employees. For a president faced with rising inflation and a labor shortage he sure doesn't seem to be to concerned with getting the nation back on track.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Sep-21
Freedom is about having choices, IMO. If your employer mandates a vaccine, you still have the choice to either abide, or find another job that doesn't require it. Nobody is being strapped down and forced to get the jab. I could list a dozen similar conditions of employment that companies often mandate.

I'm not advocating the government mandates on private or public companies. I think every company should be able to make their own rules with respect to vaccinations. However, if you work for the government, you either accept the conditions of your employment, or find another job. Again, nobody is being forced to get vaccinated.

Matt

From: 70lbdraw
14-Sep-21
""A lie doesn't become truth, right doesn't become wrong, evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority" Booker T Washington"

I saw an article that Squaw Valley Ski Resort will change its name. After reading the article I couldn't help but think about ths above quote when I read the following paragraph:

"The word “squaw,” derived from the Algonquin language, may have once simply meant “woman,” but over generations, the word morphed into a misogynist and racist term to disparage Indigenous women, according to experts."

So,...experts believe "word morphing", an actual phenomenon these days? Whooda thunk?!

From: Rocky D
14-Sep-21
“ However, if you work for the government, you either accept the conditions of your employment, or find another job. Again, nobody is being forced to get vaccinated.”

GG, it’s the inconsistency!

Postal workers don’t have to get the vaccine.

“The COVID-19 vaccination requirements included in the White House executive order issued on September 9, 2021 for federal employees do not apply to the Postal Service,” said Dave Partenheimer, a USPS spokesman.”

So, not everyone has to get the vaccine to include those infiltrating the border!

Once again jobama maintains his agenda while still taking care of those that take care of him!

From: TGbow
14-Sep-21
I think Biden would have a hard time leading a cub scout troop much less lead a nation. Pathetic

From: midwest
14-Sep-21
"Again, nobody is being forced to get vaccinated."

Perhaps "coerced" would be the proper term.

From: HDE
14-Sep-21
"I'll ask one more time. Who, exactly, is being "forced" to get vaccinated for Covid?"

Easy. Anyone who's employer is dumb enough to use coercion against you.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Sep-21
"Easy. Anyone who's employer is dumb enough to use coercion against you."

I'd argue that any employee who allows his employer to coerce him into something he doesn't want to do is getting exactly what he/she deserves. No job is worth that. I guess that's why I was never a very good "company man". I much preferred to work for my own companies, and make my own rules.

Matt

From: HDE
14-Sep-21
^^^ yeah, well, doesn't work like that for everyone. Besides, if everyone worked for themselves, what would straw bosses, managers, and executives get to cry about...?

From: JohnMC
14-Sep-21
Does anyone else wonder if Matt is both Grey Ghost and Bigeasygator? They post very similarly, occasionally compliment each other. No prove just a hunch.

From: bigeasygator
14-Sep-21
LOL. Matt and I have historically seen most things eye to eye. But now that you say it, I’ve met and know plenty of other Bowsiters in real life but not sure if any of them can attest to meeting or knowing Matt separately, so….

From: JohnMC
14-Sep-21
Give me slight odds I'd probably bet you are one in the same ;)

From: Grey Ghost
14-Sep-21
BEG is a lot younger and not nearly as handsome as me. And I'm a better hunter ;-)

But we do tend to see political things eye-to-eye. We don't march to any political drum beats. We're independent thinkers who filter thru the propaganda from both sides to find the truth.

In fact, I'm honored to be compared to Jason.

Matt

From: TGbow
14-Sep-21
Matt, you are just being modest..lol

I dont see eye to eye on politics with my inlaws but I really like them..well one of them..lol Come to think of it I dont see eye to eye with my Dad on some things..I told him he was in danger of becoming a Neocon..lol But, he is 92 so I cut him some slack

From: 70lbdraw
14-Sep-21
"No, they aren't being forced to. They have other options, as Matt is rightly pointing out."

So, what if the gvmt suddenly deemed your property 'eminent domain' In an effort to make room for displaced Afgans? You can take the offer to buy out, or, you can just leave before they mow your house down. Your choices are endless...would you still be splitting hairs over the terminology used to describe it?

14-Sep-21
JohnMC, By that logic you may actually be every other poster on bowsite that is not BEG, GG or Matt. Maybe in reality there is two posters on this thread.

From: bigeasygator
14-Sep-21
BEG is a lot younger and not nearly as handsome as me. And I'm a better hunter ;-)

Facts.

In fact, I'm honored to be compared to Jason.

You’re too kind, my friend. Right back atcha!

From: bigeasygator
14-Sep-21
JohnMC, By that logic you may actually be every other poster on bowsite that is not BEG, GG or Matt. Maybe in reality there is two posters on this thread

It’s basically a cheap version of the Matrix.

From: bigeasygator
14-Sep-21
Your choices are endless...would you still be splitting hairs over the terminology used to describe it?

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact remains that anyone that doesn’t want to get the shot, doesn’t have to get the shot.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Sep-21
Eminent domain applies to every property owner, whether you like it or not. Its origins date back to the foundations of our constitution. The simple truth is you don't ever completely control how your property is used,. If a "greater good". is deemed by the government, they can make it happen. Ask anyone who has been forced to concede to oil and gas exploration on their properties.

Matt

From: HDE
14-Sep-21
^^^^ actually, no. There still needs to be a legit reason and if someone loses a piece of property to O & G development it is because of the split estate where the mineral owner takes precedence over the surface owner.

From: TGbow
14-Sep-21
I thoughtvEminent domain was designed for things like building highways n such. Of course the government would never over reach...would they. I imagine the founders would turn over on their graves if they could see all the taxes and extortion that goes on today. Its called legalized extortion. Of course, you had your big government crowd back then too

From: midwest
14-Sep-21
"I much preferred to work for my own companies, and make my own rules."

According to Biden, if you own a company with over 100 employees, you don't get to make all your own rules.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Sep-21
Good point HDE. How many property owners know that distinction? I did. But I know people who didn't.

Matt

From: TGbow
14-Sep-21
https://youtu.be/Sguz6nnaQhk

Here is a good example why a lot of people dont trust Fauci and this incompetent administration. Bunch of damn idiots

From: HDE
14-Sep-21
GG, many don't and many a landman have bullied their way around as well.

From: kyrob
15-Sep-21
"I much preferred to work for my own companies, and make my own rules."

"According to Biden, if you own a company with over 100 employees, you don't get to make all your own rules."

This is what Biden has said, so, now the owner has a choice to make as we now know he is not being forced to comply. He can shut down the company and put 100 plus employees out of work, or, pay the $14,000 per violation fine that Biden has said would incur. No force here, just options, right?

15-Sep-21
"This is what Biden has said, so, now the owner has a choice to make as we now know he is not being forced to comply. He can shut down the company and put 100 plus employees out of work, or, pay the $14,000 per violation fine that Biden has said would incur. No force here, just options, right?"

i'm not for the vaccine mandate but isn't there also a weekly testing option?

From: midwest
15-Sep-21
"i'm not for the vaccine mandate but isn't there also a weekly testing option?"

Who pays for that?

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
Regarding the vaccine mandate....my thoughts, which I have up this this point, declined to share.

Somewhere along the way, I have become an aging baby boomer. I was born in an age that polio robbed young children of their health and mobility. When the Salk vaccine was developed, the government lined first graders up (and maybe other grades at first) and every child got the shot. To my knowledge, no parental consent, forms or public commentary were present as America was sick of the disease. The vaccine was given despite the knowledge that the vaccine caused polio at an average of 5 incidences per 1,000,000 vaccinated. America was at war against the disease and it was the price to pay.

Vietnam rolled around and the government said we were at war. Young men were drafted against their will in some cases and the government didn't care about your thoughts, individual rights, personal freedoms, or future plans for the most part. It was your duty as an American to serve in a war that many thought unjust.

Today, we have lost nearly 700,000 Americans which is greater than any war we have ever had fought. If our adversary was a foreign government and death were caused by bullet or bomb, we would possibly return to conscription and again we would be laying in rice paddies or freezing in some God forsaken part of the globe to right a terrible wrong. Again, nobody would care about your political beliefs or thoughts of individual freedoms.

Frankly, I don't like the vaccine mandate that effects some Americans, but I do think 700,000 American deaths are too much pain to endure when it is largely preventable. America has always required its citizens to take action in times of war or distress as an act of public service for the benefit of the country.

I don't think this is too different than our historical past.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Sep-21
Great post, Stringwacker.

Matt

15-Sep-21
"Who pays for that?"

ultimately we all do.

From: LINK
15-Sep-21
Stringwacker. How many of those 700,000 actually died of COVID. Out of that number how many would have died in the same calendar year without COVID. We lose 300,000 per year regardless and now no one is dying of anything else. We are at war all right….. with leftist communists.

From: HDE
15-Sep-21
"This is what Biden has said, so, now the owner has a choice to make as we now know he is not being forced to comply. He can shut down the company and put 100 plus employees out of work, or, pay the $14,000 per violation fine that Biden has said would incur. No force here, just options, right?"

The very definition of coercion.

"Today, we have lost nearly 700,000 Americans which is greater than any war we have ever had fought."

600,000 in the American Civil War. These are the deaths accounted for, who knows how many MIA's were actually KIA's...

From: TGbow
15-Sep-21
Interesting video I posted above. No wonder people dont trust Fauci

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
Link, I think we will agree that only God knows that number. I think we should be careful not to disrespect the aged among our society merely because they are nearer the end of their life. In the context of the Salk vaccine discussed, polio was primary an attacker of children....and Americans had a constant reminder with the sight of disabled adults (including one President) their entire lives. With the elderly, they die and we bury them out of sight.... and question how many would have died anyway. We have a disconnect in our value of human life.

From: JBG
15-Sep-21
You would think different if Polio shot had taken your legs like it did my childhood friend. The price of Freedom has always been high and buried here amoungst us. It has never been and never will be , too high. To use a line of Yogi's thinking. . . . "your not free, until your Free"

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
....and in the Civil war the governments conscripted compulsory service without regard to political affiliation, religious belief, age, personal view points or views of government tyranny. You can make arguments to almost any belief based on what might have existed or would have been an outcome. Stats don't lie, but statisticians often do.

I still visit many of my family members graves, many who fought in the 40th regiment of the CSA as the Muckalusha Guard. Their tombstones proudly carry their CSA affiliation and fighting unit.

From: LINK
15-Sep-21
Stringwacker I have no disconnect on the value of human life. Forcing a vaccine that is proven to have issues on the healthy masses to prolong the lives of 100000 by a few months is reckless and values the lives of those on their death bed over the healthy that might die of side effects. All for a shot that may or may not provide benefit. If this was a true vaccine id support it. It’s a cheap band aid that makes us feel good about it but quickly falls off leaving us exposed.

From: 2Wild Bill
15-Sep-21
'We have a disconnect in our value of human life."

It's not a disconnect, it is a dispute where the government is on record as not protecting human life. 62,502,904 abortions since 1973, and you want to squibble about 700,000? And that does not include Federal funds sent to other countries around the world to pay for abortions done there. Instead of exporting life and liberty we have exported death to the most innocent humans.

Thomas Jefferson correctly predicted the breaking of the state union over the issue of slavery. The future of American culture pivots on the issue of abortion. The founding fathers understood that unlimited government is evil.

It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
Link, I will respect your opinion but can't personally subscribe to it. I can't respond a hypothetical premise or outcome. I don't think the vaccine poses any greater threat than what Americans have faced before. There is a reason we don't have polio anymore despite the vaccine's historical documented shortcomings.

I can only speak for myself, but I would sacrifice my own welfare if I knew it would help save generations of Americans from this disease. I think it is something that Americans have always done for the benefit of freedom...regardless of how freedom is often defined. I think to glorify individual freedom (as opposed to collective freedoms) puts us closer to the late 60's hippie movement, and Jane Fonda..... than it does Trumpism.

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
......and flipping off 700,000 American lives is pretty big human life disconnect by almost any standard. That doesn't mean that your point about abortion isn't well taken and completely valid.

From: Whitey
15-Sep-21
Comparing covid to polio is a false comparison. Covid is more like the flu which we have failed to eradicate via vaccine. Covid is endemic . Everyone will get it. The only choice now is to fight it naturally or with the benefit of a therapeutic vaccine. As it mutates it will continue to weed out the weakest just like the flu. The war needing to be fought is to focus public health policy on reducing obesity and all of its associated diseases . Covid has put a past pull date on elderly obese people with diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease. Don’t be one of them going forward.

From: 2Wild Bill
15-Sep-21
Stringwacker,

Nobody here is flipping them off, that's you putting words in my mouth. Shame on you. The annual death rate exceeds that and is business as usual in a population of 332,747,461. The issue is government on the one hand issuing death to innocents at home and across the globe and then claiming concern for the health of Americans. Don't be stupid, it's all about control in this day and age of people loving power, rather than the power of love.

Your whole recount of America during the polio era is a tool of deception in that the situation differs by the facts. Most importantly, the shot today is not a vaccination with life long immunity, but an experiment on a national scale. 99.8% of covid infected people recover and have a natural immunity 13% better than people that take the shot. My mother-in-law was a polio victim.

15-Sep-21

Landshark  Launcher's embedded Photo
Landshark  Launcher's embedded Photo

From: deerhunter72
15-Sep-21
"The war needing to be fought is to focus public health policy on reducing obesity and all of its associated diseases . Covid has put a past pull date on elderly obese people with diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease."

I can agree that reducing obesity is a great idea but putting that into action would be futile. If we don't like being told to get a vaccine that has been proven to provide a level of protection from Covid, good luck telling people what they can and can't eat. What you are saying, in general, is that people who live the standard American lifestyle have done it to themselves so it's their fault if they die. That's pretty harsh. FWIW, not all of the diseases you listed are a personal choice. Genetics play a large part.

From: 2Wild Bill
15-Sep-21
"That's pretty harsh. "

More importantly, is it true?

The further a society drifts away from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. - George Orwell

From: Whitey
15-Sep-21
“What you are saying, in general, is that people who live the standard American lifestyle have done it to themselves so it's their fault if they die” 78% of the people who have dies were obese soCovid is saying it not me.

“not all of the diseases you listed are a personal choice. Genetics play a large part.” Agreed. However how many people with the bad genetics do you know that are at or under their BMI target weight , don’t eat excessive sugars , abstain from alcohol and exercise 7 days a week vs not and rely on prescriptions to manage their symptoms and continue swilling IPAs and yelling more bacon?

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
While I have to agree that Covid and Polio are two different diseases, as it relates to a vaccine solution some similarities can be drawn. If the facts differ, I would like to be enlightened. In the case of Polio, the vaccine was given from the early 60's to the early 1990's. It took over 30 years of the use of the vaccine for the government to call polio 'eradicated". In the case of Covid, the vaccine is hardly a year old...... and I doubt even with higher vaccination rates its leaving us anytime soon. That doesn't mean Covid has to be epidemic in the future. The interesting development is as a higher percentage of older Americans have been vaccinated, serious disease complications are now moving toward younger adults; at least that's the current public narrative. At the UMC hospital in Jackson, news reports is that 8 of 11 pregnant mothers have died since August...and an increasing number of under 18 year olds are being infected.

I will retain my premise that given the death by Covid is still primarily viewed as a statistic of the elderly, we don't treat it and feel the same way as if those deaths were from a younger demographic. How can that not be determined by the reading of these post? We seem calloused to the fact that our contribution to it's individual spread is sometimes caused by our own negligent actions.

Only speaking for myself and no one else I will do everything in my individual power to slow or eradicate the spread of this disease, my own welfare not withstanding, as I think I owe it to America.

I do feel many of us are 'flipping off the elderly.' If its publicly shameful to point out the obvious... then I have no problem wearing the label individually as a badge of honor.

I think that Fake News travels in both directions.

From: Whitey
15-Sep-21
Word salad

From: deerhunter72
15-Sep-21
Sounds to me like some of you guys are all for trimming the fat, literally. No compassion there. I guess you can pray that you never need a little compassion thrown your way.

I'm all for individual accountability. I'm reminded of it everyday when I'm sweating it out on the road exercising, largely because of bad genetics. And yes, I rely on several prescriptions to control a chronic spasm in one of my coronary arteries because I find it's uncontrollable any other way. If God had made us perfectly we would have no need of doctors and medicines, but then we would all be robots without the ability to think for ourselves.

From: LINK
15-Sep-21
As currently constituted this vaccine and other measures will never eradicate COVID. So why would someone want to continually put one of these vaccines in themselves for a death rate that rivals the flu. The only reason I can come to is that if you fear the disease will personally put you under. I don’t blame same for grasping at straws. If I felt at risk I would be trying everything, including ivomec. As it is with a shot that doesn’t do much but enrich those that helped create the disease ill pass.

From: Whitey
15-Sep-21
Deerhunter. Pointing out the realities is not showing a lack of compassion. A dr. Giving you a diagnoses and treatment options is not compassionless he is merely stating the facts. . Anyone with a heart truly feels for those who cannot change their circumstances . Most can change their circumstances and choose not to do it.

From: HDE
15-Sep-21
"Stats don't lie, but statisticians often do."

Actually, it's data doesn't lie, but politicians do.

15-Sep-21
"Comparing covid to polio is a false comparison. Covid is more like the flu which we have failed to eradicate via vaccine."

same was true with polio...right up until we eradicated it with a vaccine.

From: Whitey
15-Sep-21
Polio does not have a animal reservoir like the flu and Covid. You will never eradicate Covid. So the comparison is invalid.

From: bigeasygator
15-Sep-21
So why would someone want to continually put one of these vaccines in themselves for a death rate that rivals the flu

More misinformation. By every measure, COVID is orders of magnitude more deadly than the flu. Last year, COVID killed approximately 500x as many people as the flu.

From: LINK
15-Sep-21
Sure it did big easy because there was no flu last year, lol. No pneumonia either. Ohh and every COVID death was from covid. Lol carry on

From: Stringwacker
15-Sep-21
If you don't like a polio similarity, maybe try a new one.... like measles. Another vaccine success story. Requires a booster where it still exist; but not 100% eradicated.

The only true difference of the vaccine going against the diseases of today vs yesteryear....is in the past we didn't have 24 hour left wing and right wing medias spinning a narrative for their own political viewpoint and ratings; nor did we have the internet to foster fake news to the masses as credible facts. It's proven over and over that you can't have a covid discussion without politics coming into the discussion in short order. Covid isn't a republican or a democrat. Its just a disease that has killed nearly 700,000 Americans and 4.5 million people worldwide.

I know its crazy, but we just used to be concerned about maintaining our health and the health of others. Times sure have changed.

From: RK
15-Sep-21
COVID has been a godsend in eradicating multiple other causes of death. I had a good friend that we thought died from a broken neck and drowning while surfing but in actuality the medical examiner ruled COVID. One of my sons friends died of suicide, we thought. Nope COVID. Last year flu totally eradicated in the city I live. Not one case. Miracle for sure

Reading all this back and forth with all the experts here makes me think of one word.

Cockwomble

Carry on gentlemen

From: spike78
15-Sep-21
And I’m sure all those 80 and 90 year old in the nursing homes all died of Covid even the ones with strokes, heart attacks, cancer, and the poor old lady who fell and cracked her head on the floor.

From: HDE
15-Sep-21
BEG - one of the same flu strains we deal with every year killed 50 million 100+ years ago. Another killed a few million teenagers and young adults 12 years ago. SARS-2 will become another cold virus before long...

From: bigeasygator
15-Sep-21
Sure it did big east because there was no flu last year

Well, yes there was. Just so happens to be that all the things we did to minimize the spread of COVID - hygiene, disinfection, social distancing, shutdowns, masks - happen to work well on the flu as well. And COVID still killed 500 times as many people. It’s also a reference point for what could have happened had we taken no measures against COVID.

From: Bowaddict
15-Sep-21
COVID has too many animal hosts to be eradicated by these vaccines. It is not an entirely human based disease such as small pox for example. It will continue to mutate….my good immune system has been working wonderfully!! Carry on!

From: Nemophilist
15-Sep-21

Nemophilist's embedded Photo
Nemophilist's embedded Photo
Here is something I don't understand.

From: spike78
15-Sep-21
Nemo Trump got it and looks overweight and Rand Paul got it and from what I read basically has one lung and survived. If this doesn’t scream population control I don’t know what does.

From: kyrob
15-Sep-21
"During the 2019-2020 influenza season, (which is October 1st 2020 to April 4th 2021), CDC estimates that influenza was associated with 38 million illnesses, 18 million medical visits, 405,000 hospitalizations, and 22,000 deaths." (This from CDC.gov website) So, according to big easy, 22,000 x 500 = 11,000,000. I knew there were a lot of deaths blamed on Covid but not this many.

From: spike78
15-Sep-21
Nobody knows the true number of Covid deaths and never will. I’m sure it was a lot but....

From: bigeasygator
15-Sep-21

bigeasygator's Link
The 2019-2020 influenza deaths are predominantly pre-COVID. Once COVID control measures were instituted, the flu was essentially wiped out in the 2020 calendar year. Typically we see 20-40,000 deaths per calendar year due to influenza. There were 700 in the 2020 calendar year. This contrasts to 350,000 deaths from COVID during the same timeframe. 700*500=350,000.

From: itshot
15-Sep-21
" Just so happens to be that all the things we did to minimize the spread of COVID - hygiene, disinfection, social distancing, shutdowns, masks - happen to work well on the flu as well."

with that incredible (literally in-credible) consequence, all we need to do now is figure out what months to start and stop the novel yearly hygiene/ disinfection/ social distancing/ shutdowns/ masks/ eviction moratoriums/ multi- trillion dollar stimulesses/ shortages/ die alone/ stay home/ layoff/ obey the science/ end tyranny/ etc season!?

if done right, we stand to save hundreds of thousands of lives yearly, possibly millions

From: spike78
15-Sep-21
Well I can tell you I haven’t been sick in years and after I stopped with the Covid measures I got a nasty cold like I haven’t had in awhile. I actually thought I had Covid and got tested. In my opinion this happened because when you block yourself off to germs you kill your immunity. And this could be one reason why ironically we have a Covid outbreak in the summertime right after Covid measures were relaxed. Honestly it’s probably counterproductive and possibly more dangerous then building up immunity.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Sep-21
IWell I can tell you I haven’t been sick in years and after I stopped with the Covid measures I got a nasty cold like I haven’t had in awhile

So, Spikey's conclusion is protecting yourself from viruses causes you to be more susceptible to them when you stop protecting yourself. I don't think you could make this stuff up if you tried.

Matt

From: Stringwacker
16-Sep-21
Seems like a lot of folks are not limiting themselves to their own opinions, but rather their own facts as well......

From: spike78
16-Sep-21
Matt that’s exactly what I’m saying. I didn’t know you liberals knew everything? Maybe whenever I need to know something I will just contact a liberal and I will be all set.

From: spike78
16-Sep-21
I guess the word immunity isn’t real then. Can you explain why I haven’t gotten a flu in roughly 27 years or the common cold in quite some time? All of a sudden I’m wearing a mask, sanitizing my hands, and keeping away from crowds. Then I stop and boom I’m sick yeah seems crazy huh.

16-Sep-21
"I guess the word immunity isn’t real then."

immunity doesn't...and never has...meant total and permanent protection. it simply means that there are antibodies present that will help fight a disease or infection.

From: TGbow
16-Sep-21
Most of the people being called Liberals are really more Leftist/Marxist in DC. I dont even call them Libberals anymore. Like "Conservatives", most of them in DC labeled as conservatives are really Neocons.

From: LINK
16-Sep-21
Most people weren’t tested for the flu but instead were tested for COVID. My brother insisted on being tested for the flu and tested positive for the flu and COVID at the same time. Which did he have? I suppose you’ll tell me both.

16-Sep-21
I reckon we are only supposed to think exposure works if it’s in a vaccine. Isn’t that the way many viruses work? But, it doesn’t work that way in real life. Hmmmm. That’s kinda ironic.

I’m telling you, you just can’t make sone of this stuff up.

16-Sep-21
"I reckon we are only supposed to think exposure works if it’s in a vaccine."

not really. i reckon were are supposed to realize they both offer immunity but getting the vaccine has substantially less risk than getting the virus. millions of people world wide went the virus only route...and they are dead.

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
Matt that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Just so I have your take right on this, spike:

Followed COVID protection measures, didn’t get sick.

Stop with the protective measures, got sick.

Your conclusion - the protective measures are to blame for getting you sick.

Did I read that right?

From: spike78
16-Sep-21
BEG what I meant was if you take yourself away from germs and don’t let your body get exposed to them your system has no immunity. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

From: HDE
16-Sep-21
"The 2019-2020 influenza deaths are predominantly pre-COVID. Once COVID control measures were instituted, the flu was essentially wiped out in the 2020 calendar year. Typically we see 20-40,000 deaths per calendar year due to influenza. There were 700 in the 2020 calendar year. This contrasts to 350,000 deaths from COVID during the same timeframe. 700*500=350,000."

Most of this post is incorrect. Flu wiped out? HA! Hardly! People are more resilient to the flu than SARS-2. If they tested negative for SARS-2, they just moved on because it wasn't the bigger of the two threats...

16-Sep-21
Ricky, if you’d pipe that pie hole down a notch or two, you might realize that all the vax shaming, mask wearing Covid professionals often indicate that exposure to the Covid 19 virus is absurd. Yet, insist non mRNA vaccines work due to exposing your immune system to a virus.

I realize common sense left the building a long time ago for sone people. However, a natural immune response is a very valid option for almost every single human on the face of the earth if they choose that route.

It’s proving to offer better protection against at other mutations of the virus then the vax. It’s proving to potentially protect a person longer then the shots do. And, it’s proving to be a lot less deadly then inflated death counts first suggested. All this is undeniable.

16-Sep-21
Exactly HDE. It’s like the common sense train no longer runs to most of the stops it used to.

From: stealthycat
16-Sep-21
I guess today I fold to the Fed Govt and get shotted

Its either that or lose my job and I cannot do that right now.

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
If they tested negative for SARS-2, they just moved on because it wasn't the bigger of the two threats...

Per the CDC, there was high levels of influenza testing thanks to the pandemic.

Flu activity was unusually low throughout the 2020-2021 flu season both in the United States and globally, despite high levels of testing. During September 28, 2020–May 22, 2021 in the United States, 1,675 (0.2%) of 818,939 respiratory specimens tested by U.S. clinical laboratories were positive for an influenza virus. The low level of flu activity during this past season contributed to dramatically fewer flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths compared with previous flu seasons. For comparison, during the last three seasons before the pandemic, the proportion of respiratory specimens testing positive for influenza peaked between 26.2% and 30.3%.

Most of this post is incorrect

Cutting flu deaths by roughly 99% is “essentially” wiping it out IMO.

You can’t name a single thing incorrect in that post. Stop it.

16-Sep-21
"Ricky, if you’d pipe that pie hole down a notch or two, you might realize that all the vax shaming, mask wearing Covid professionals often indicate that exposure to the Covid 19 virus is absurd. Yet, insist non mRNA vaccines work due to exposing your immune system to a virus."

total bs. mrna vaccines do not expose your immune system to a virus.

both natural and vaccine induced immunity are good but lets talk about common sense. common sense says that its a hell of a lot safer to get immunity via the vaccine than it is to get the virus.

From: TGbow
16-Sep-21
I had the virus last month, so did my wife n daughter..Im not sure Im gonna get the vaccine now that Ive had it..from what I read I may not be any better off getting the vax

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
total bs. mrna vaccines do not expose your immune system to a virus… common sense says that its a hell of a lot safer to get immunity via the vaccine than it is to get the virus.

Sense, common or otherwise, seems to be in short supply around here, Ricky.

16-Sep-21
Ricky, You exhibit some of the same tendencies as BEG. Reading comprehension definitely isn’t one of your strong suits.

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
LOL

16-Sep-21
You really have something wrong with you. I’m on a phone so I’m not going to copy and paste the part of the post that said “non mRNA”.

I’m guessing the correlation is lost on you two.

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
I read it, Justin.

You are equating the risk from viral exposure associated with an inactivated or attenuated vaccine to that of a live virus.

As I said, sense, common or otherwise, seems to be in short supply on your posts.

16-Sep-21
"Reading comprehension definitely isn’t one of your strong suits."

yes, i misread you post and i apologize. i do stand by the rest of my post however.

From: Nemophilist
16-Sep-21

Nemophilist's embedded Photo
Nemophilist's embedded Photo

From: HDE
16-Sep-21
"...wiping it out IMO."

Precisely the problem, an opinion, and the CDC doesn't know if it's coming or going. You still have much to learn little grasshopper...

16-Sep-21
Jason, I’m pointing out that our bodies are capable of producing a great immune response in those who’ve contracted Covid 19. I’m also pointing out that reality has always been. And, up until this “pandemic”, anything with such a mild affect on the average population, has been given free reign to run its course.

However, with this virus, it’s no longer acceptable to do that. It’s no longer considered a medical option. Instead, it’s labeled in a way that insinuates anyone who isn’t getting the vax is a simpleton, big browed, caveman.

This virus was politicized from the start. To use as a tool. Common sense has been censored out of social media, big tech platforms, and any where else when qualified individuals have suggested that Fauccu’s approach might not be the best way for everyone. Not because he’s right. As time is showing he’s past blatantly being wrong. Instead, it’s been done that way to justify a means. And, it’s so I’ve sides by design, it’s either convinced or out right turned away people concerning his advice.

You can quote all the links you want. You can twist things to argue all you want. It does not change that 99% of the people who get this is going to be ok. Nor does it change that natural antibodies are superior. Nor does it change that masks might work in a jab but, don’t seem to work very well once common folk wear them. ETC….

It’s always been ok to explore and choose your options on healthcare. It’s always been ok to decide against a vaccine that was this ineffective. I hear you on over whelming the health care field. All I can say is if there is a bed in an icu anywhere, hospital administrations are always promoting filling them.

Health care workers chose their jobs knowing sick people was the norm. Hospitals have been over crowded since medication has extended life spans. And, this virus isn’t the end all policy and public reaction of sone, suggest. You can describe that how ever you like. But, I know what it is. So do you. And, it’s as simple as that. Because the SCIENCE says it is.

From: spike78
16-Sep-21
I just can’t listen to Fauci talk and believe anything he says. Everytime I see his picture my first thought is of a weasel. And honestly that’s a non warranted bash at an actual weasel.

From: bigeasygator
16-Sep-21
Precisely the problem, an opinion

Doesn’t change the fact that all the other data I quoted to arrive at that opinion was correct. Fact remains that flu cases and flu deaths have decreased by something on the order of 99%. So, like I said, you haven’t pointed out one thing I stated that was incorrect.

From: 3rd Degree
16-Sep-21
You can state/find facts, stats, whatever, to support whatever side your on.

This is about freedom! Nothing else. Americans freedom.

Word it however you want. Play semantics all you want. Mandated, forcing, coercing, bribing, shaming, blackmailing. "You have a choice, just quit" it's the same thing. By force. And don't try to say weekly testing is also a choice. I thought my body my choice means the same weather its a jab in the arm, or a poke up the nose. KMA. 2 bad choices does not equal freedom.

Next it will be about groceries, and not getting them if you not jabbed. The goal posts will continue to move until they establish total control, and we are all surf's to the lords that allow us to live on there land, and take all the taxes they want.

Take it or don't. That is as far as it should go. Any more than that is an attack on freedom. And shame on any of you that think you have the right to tell me what to do.

The jabbed are Not protecting anyone by getting the jab. I am not hurting you by not getting it.

If it is that good, you'll live a long life, and will die. Get jabbed to protect the jabbed.. what a load of crap.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Sep-21

From: Grey Ghost
16-Sep-21
Justin,

Who, exactly, has ever disputed that contracting and recovering from Covid creates an immune response that is similar, and perhaps superior, to that of the vaccines?

Also, when you say "99% of the people who get this is (sic) going to be ok." are you including the long-haulers who will have life-long health issues from contracting Covid?

And just so we're clear, I haven't contracted Covid, nor have I gotten the jab. In some ways I'm jealous of those of you who have recovered from Covid, with no apparent long-term problems. I'd rather be in that position than the one I'm in now. If someone could definitively tell me that Covid would be no big deal for me, I'd let an infected person cough all over me, and get it over with. But, I think only God knows the answer to that one. So, it appears that getting the vaccine is the least risky way to develop at least some level of immunity for me.

Matt

From: TGbow
16-Sep-21
Dang..It shouldn't be that hard to figure out that Covid is a bad virus. Most folks dont dispute that. I had it and I take it serious.

What most people...[people that value freedom], have a problem with is this idiot Fauci and his stupid rhetoric. I think for most people the vaccine will help. What most of us have a problem with is the fact that we dont trust the present leadership to handle a damn weenie roast, much less run the country. One thing is for sure, if you dont have freedom you will never be safe. But some people keep on thinkin big brother is gonna fix everything...yep, reinventing that square wheel that will never function worth a damn

From: 3rd Degree
16-Sep-21
Do what you feel is right for you!

But, Matt, please, please , please do more research. You will have to look deep for the best info. Try duck duck go, or any other unbiased search engine you can find. Please also look into what is the right jab for you, if that is how you go. They are all a little different.

From: RK
16-Sep-21
GG

LMAO ! After reading your last post it is pretty clear you are keeping your local dispensary in business. Glad all is well

From: Grey Ghost
17-Sep-21
RK,

Anyone who uses a dispensary is a fool. The stuff literally grows like a weed in a typical flower pot....ummm...so I'm told. Glad you're well too.

Matt

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
I guess I will make my final post on this as it's more than clear all sides are well entrenched in their beliefs. I will repeat that government mandates of vaccine usage when the greater good of all Americans health is firmly established (Though no longer federally required, every state requires children to have a polio vaccination when entering the public school system). The early attempts at the polio vaccine were wretched; but the greater good prevailed. It wasn't a perfect vaccine but we don't see disfigured kids today by way of Polio.

Individual freedoms that were paid with blood are cherished in this country as it should be; but its my opinion that individual freedoms that goes against against the greater good of all sometimes can fall in the same embraced freedoms as defined by the 60's hippie movement, Jane Fonda, and the 'better red than dead' crowd. An anti-vaxxer doesn't fall in the above category, but it shows everyone can have a different take on individual freedom at some level. It depends on your life experience I suppose.

In the case of the Virus, it becomes greatly trivialized at times (same as the flu, Covid deaths wrongly categorized, only old folks get it, etc) without regard of the pregnant mothers dying, diabetics, the elderly, special medical need community or any of the other nearly 700,000 Americans that have perished both Republican, Democrat, healthy, young, and old.

I would just say that while you individually may feel that your going to be in the vast majority of people who recover and get the 'holy grail' natural immunity; I do ask you to think about all the 700,000 who died that got it from 'someone'; many of who were individual 'freedom' advocates. The vaccine's have had many cases of 'break throughs' but they play an important role in preventing death and spread by almost any medical account. The vast number of people on ventilators are the unvaccinated. God only knows who they may have taken with them.

Let's don't diminish the deaths of 700,000 which is more than any war the US has ever had. Someone said earlier that the Civil War may have had more...perhaps if you don't use the official number, but those deaths were over a three year plus period. The virus has done it in a lot shorter time.

Until Biden makes it compulsory for everyone ( I don't support) I guess the choice is yours.

17-Sep-21
No one is doubting when it’s the best for Americans. What is debatable is it the right thing for America.

What isn’t debatable is the fear it’s caused by demanding total vaccination in order to return a normalcy to most lives, is hurting America. And, given the facts of the situation, that undeniable.

From: RK
17-Sep-21
There are no facts to demonstrate that mandating vaccines will bring us back to normalcy. Actually it's doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Hospitals and ICU s are evidently full of vaccinated people ?

From: bigeasygator
17-Sep-21
There are no facts to demonstrate that mandating vaccines will bring us back to normalcy. Actually it's doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Hospitals and ICU s are evidently full of vaccinated people ?

No, they aren’t. It’s the unvaccinated that are overwhelming hospitals by a wide margin. And this is what is preventing a “return” to normalcy. Having the whole country vaccinated is not “doing the same thing” as there’s still a considerable percentage of the population unvaccinated.

From: LINK
17-Sep-21
What is the percentage of people that have had covid or the shot? I bet somewhere north of 75% of the people in my church and town have had covid. I would say a large percentage of the remaining 25% have been vaccinated. I have heard of no one in my county dying or being hospitalized of covid since last February. I haven’t heard of anyone i personally know or even a friend of a friend that’s been hospitalized or died since February. Supposedly the hospital beds are full of covid patients yet I don’t know any. Maybe my county has reached herd immunity as I can count the number of people I’ve seen wear a mask in the last 8 months on 1 hand and our kids went to school all of last year. Maybe it will come back but it’s not a big deal where I live. How about you guys?

From: deerhunter72
17-Sep-21
"Hospitals and ICU s are evidently full of vaccinated people ?"

Not at the healthcare system that I work for. An average of 82% of patients hospitalized for the past several weeks are unvaccinated. According to the number of deaths seen over this period of time, you are 11 times more likely to die if you get Covid and are unvaccinated in the area that I live. I'm not a gambler but I don't like those odds.

From: bigeasygator
17-Sep-21
Not at the healthcare system that I work for

Same here in the New Orleans area. The numbers have dropped a bit in terms of cases overwhelming the hospitals due to restrictions put in place (can’t go out to eat, see music, etc unless you show that you are vaccinated or show a negative test), but the hospitalizations are still ~90% unvaccinated patients.

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
I said I had said I had made my last post on this so I apologize, but the question of how is Covid where you live begs an answer....

I live in Mississippi which has been the least vaccinated state in the country since the start of the vaccine. Mississippians by nature are the most independent people that you will ever meet as we have a long history of defiance of outside influence. I think currently we are 2nd from the bottom for vaccine usage.. I live in the "county* that has the highest per capita of Covid in a state that has the highest per capita in the nation.

The State has paid thousands of out of state nurses to relieve the battered and exhausted healthcare workers here. The paper is full of Covid deaths among the young and old; but pregnant mother deaths are front page. Children under the age of 12 are dying now. I've lost a good friend, a great aunt, and a father in law in the last 6 months. Every week, somebody is listed in the obituary that I know.

Last week headlines was a 74 year old who died. He had a cardiac arrest and a ventilator was searched in 43 hospitals in three states before one was found 200 miles away. His family is publicly begging for people to take the vaccine to relive pressures on the health system.

To say all of this is better than what a vaccine would do.... falls on my deaf ears. I wish my home had the same incident of Covid that some of you do. My home county is averaging 1 death per 145 residents (Link below) Maybe I would have a different perspective if I wasn't at Covid ground zero. Being in my 60's, being a diabetic, and having a rare auto immune disease( that I have to take immunity lowering drugs) doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy in this county.

From: bigeasygator
17-Sep-21

bigeasygator's Link
More from our region…

Warner Thomas, President and CEO of Ochsner Health began the press briefing Thursday with a look at numbers in their hospitals across the state. In total, 1,028 patient are hospitalized with COVID at Ochsner campuses. Thomas says that is a slight decrease from 1,043 last week.

The majority of patients hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated patients. They have 910 unvaccinated patients in total, they say.

17-Sep-21
there is a lot we don't know about which is better, natural immunity or vaccinated immunity but one thing we know for absolute certainty. for about 650,000 people who were infected, the immunity is 100% effective.

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21

Stringwacker's Link

From: woodguy65
17-Sep-21
approx 10,000 migrants under bridge in Del Rio waiting to cross into US - another 10k on way. Im sure they are Vaxxed though so no worries.... coming to a city near you.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21
Mississippi has the highest obesity rate in the US 40% of the population. Vaccinated or unvaxed they will lead the death count with 78% of fatalities are obese.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html

From: 70lbdraw
17-Sep-21
"approx 10,000 migrants under bridge in Del Rio waiting to cross into US - another 10k on way. Im sure they are Vaxxed though so no worries.... coming to a city near you."

Wood, are you sure this is accurate? The PINO Joe supporters tell us this isnt true...just a red herring they call it.

From: deerhunter72
17-Sep-21
Whitey seems obsessed with obese people and is fine with COVID killing them off because it's their own fault for being overweight. He even thinks the government needs to create policies to fight obesity. Government+Program seems like an oxymoron to me, but maybe Biden could come up with something. All we need is a little more govt control.

From: BowenAero
17-Sep-21

BowenAero's Link

From: Bowfreak
17-Sep-21
Link,

I will say this....Covid is ravaging KY right now. Eastern KY has one of the highest incidence rates in the country. Based on what I've seen just recently, I don't want this virus. Last week a 22 year old kid in my town died of the virus. He was overweight but no other comorbidities that I know of. Earlier this week a a 34 year old guy who attended my church passed from Covid related issues. He was a fitness nut and was in perfect health. They found him dead. It is assumed to be heart related but its not known exactly. I can't speak for the younger kid for sure but it is my understanding the 34 year old was not vaccinated. This is a town of 3,500 people. Most of the others that have died in the area have been older and had comorbidities.

I still think people should have the right to choose whether to be vaccinated or not. My family has chosen to do so.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21

Whitey's embedded Photo
Whitey's embedded Photo
Deerhunter, sorry I hurt your feelings. This came out today. Seems like we are focused on the wrong things as a society. Lock up and mask the healthy and make people fatter when it’s known to kill them.

“An estimated 22% of children and teens were obese last August, up from 19% a year earlier, according to the study. “

https://www.ksdk.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/childhood-obesity-covid-pandemic/507-c952aacd-a797-49ad-84f6-a93badd67de8?__twitter_impression=true

From: Grey Ghost
17-Sep-21
What state is that big square green one? ;-)

Matt

From: Treeline
17-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo

From: creed
17-Sep-21
Then there’s this guy. Hard to dispute what he is saying. Well maybe you could if you don’t want to believe it.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Pz0SBTvKrDrV/

From: deerhunter72
17-Sep-21
Whitey, you didn’t hurt my feelings at all. I don’t know you and don’t care to, so don’t worry about that. I agree that obesity is a major problem that puts a huge strain on health and healthcare. I just find it cruel that you think obese people deserve what they get, but that’s just me. I also find it laughable that you think the govt could create a “public health policy” that would in any way combat obesity. Most people are aware the being overweight is a bad thing, but we’re Americans right? Free to be whatever size we want.

From: spike78
17-Sep-21
Grey Ghost, that state is the next lib capital of the US ;)

17-Sep-21
I work in a large V A facility, I see good people leave here every day because they were exposed to covid and unvaccinated, veterans are dying at a staggering rate and it breaks my heart these vets wont get the vaccine to prevent there own death , but risk life and limb to save others in their military service to our country.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21
Deerhunter. ” I just find it cruel that you think obese people deserve what they get, but that’s just me. It is just you because you imagined I said it. If I did say it show me where? You can’t. Government is imposing restrictions on healthy people, I believe they should focus on the elderly and obese and not healthy people. That’s a far cry from your assumption that I believe they should create a new public health policy.

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
Whitney, being from Mississippi I took it that your were devaluing the lives of 78% of Mississippi's Covid deaths...... merely because they were fat. Otherwise, why even bring it up?

To your point; you didn't say exactly that but that was the way it came across to me personally. Maybe you had better intentions but because of the sensitivities at play, it came off differently to some folks. I hear about deaths nearly every day living in the Covid hotspot of America and I have never taken solace that its happening to people not like myself.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21
Doesn’t surprise me that you took it that way stringwalker . Mississippi is ranked the 49th least educated state.

From: 70lbdraw
17-Sep-21
WOW!! I just saw the update from that bridge in TX.

All I can say is; what a f***ing mess! Congrats to the lefties. You might actually succed in completely killing this country... that is, after you're done killing 7 Afgahn children...does anyone else see a pattern here?

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
Whitney, you have just insulted 2.4 million people. Your on a roll having labeled Mississippians fat AND stupid.

I will not trade insults. I wish you well.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21
Lol thanks stringwalker that was awesome.

From: TGbow
17-Sep-21
Well, Mississippi gave us Elvis Presley and BB King..hard to top that. Im half Mississippi n half Alabama. Besides, there are a lot educated folks that dont have sense enough to tell their azz from their head

From: DanaC
17-Sep-21
You forgot Jimmy Buffett

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
Might also heard of a few Mississippians like William Faulkner, John Grisham, Eudora Welty, LeeAnn Rimes, Brandy, Faith Hill, Bo Diddly, Morgan Freeman, Bret Farve, Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Archie Manning, Tammy Wynette, Marty Stuart, James Earl Jones, Diane Ladd, Sela Ward, Gerald McRainy, Mary Ann Mobley, Brittney Spears, John Henson and others. We’re pretty proud of our people and generosity of our state. We are just too nice to brag:)

Ok...lets get back on topic of discussing the vaccine. It's all good on my end.

From: Whitey
17-Sep-21
Stringwacker, if I intended to insult people dying of Covid I could have simply said don’t be old , age is the number 1 factor that determines a negative Covid outcome. #2 is obesity. People cannot do anything about their age they can do something about their weight. Mississippi is the most obese state, so following up on your post about Covid hitting Mississippi hard right now it is logical to point out the number one factor contributing to that problem is it’s obesity rate and the fact that it ranks 3 lowest in vaccinations. Covid will not be friendly to Mississippi , WV, Alabama Etc.

I might be wrong but I don’t think listing Brittany Spears as an asset helps your case.

From: BC
17-Sep-21
I'm from the peoples republic of Massachusetts and I'll tell you some of the best down to earth people I ever met were from the South. Mississippi included.

From: Stringwacker
17-Sep-21
We're all good Whitey. We might actually be in agreement on Brittany, it helps to mention she was born in McComb, but actually grew up in Kentwood Louisiana.... so we can't take all the blame:)

Thanks BC

From: DanaC
17-Sep-21
Whitey, I wouldn't be this dam' old if I had my druthers. On the other hand, if it weren't for modern medicine I wouldn't have seen 50, let alone 67.

From: Treeline
18-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
And this little tin-hat dictator is requiring these injections that do not prevent you from getting, transmitting, being hosipitalized, or dying from COVID?

From: LINK
18-Sep-21
Whitey, my mother hasn’t been a small woman in a long time but 10 years ago she married a really big guy and took on his eating habits. They are both in their mid 60s and can’t walk very far. Every day she is shaming people on Facebooger for not being vaccinated. I want to tell them the best thing they could do to survive covid would be to drop 50+ pounds and walk as much as possible but I don’t feel like I can say that. I think they both know it anyways. Here we are 1.5 years into this and if anything they’ve gained weight. It’s a lot easier to criticize everyone for not getting vaccinated instead of taking your health into your own hands. I’ve seen 90+ year old people not know they even had covid but they were carrying no extra weight and able to go on walks. This disease has shown me that I want to maintain fitness and reasonable lung capacity as long as I can walk/ bike/ row unassisted, hopefully until I die of a heart attack, lol.

From: grizz
19-Sep-21
I have a primary care physician and a cardiologist, both advised my wife and I, do not take the vaccine. They gave lengthy explanations of the negative effects possible. Since then we have both had the virus and recovered in short order. We did not and will not take the vaccine. So please, all of you who want to give medical advice on an archery forum, PLEASE post a copy of your medical license. Both of these doctors have done extensive research and I trust them a lot more than someone on an Internet forum and sure as hell don’t trust Butcher Biden.

From: Whitey
19-Sep-21

Whitey's Link
From Twitter. A tv station posted on Facebook looking for stories about unvaccinated people getting Covid after the vaccine was available. . 229k posts about adverse vaccine reactions. Not what they expected. It will be taken down most likely.

https://m.facebook.com/80221381134/posts/10158207967261135/?d=n

From: DanaC
19-Sep-21
"So please, all of you who want to give medical advice on an archery forum, PLEASE post a copy of your medical license."

*crickets*

From: Stringwacker
19-Sep-21

Stringwacker's Link
According to the American Medical Association, 96% of doctors have taken the vaccine as of June 11th with 45% of the remaining doctors planning to do so. (see link above) I don't really know any valid reason based on the full FDA approval and evidence why anyone would reject it.

While I'm sure your caretakers don't fall in this classification, even some doctors graduate in the bottom of their medical class. People's actions say a lot more than their words.

I would suspect that all doctors carry malpractice insurance to cover the decisions that they make in a ligation happy society. We also accept the fact that sometimes a second medical opinion is sought.

The *fact* is that doctors are just like the rest of us (albeit medically trained) and they make their own freewill choices and interpretations based the data they are presented. I have three doctors I use and I discussed with each....all overwhelmingly recommended vaccination.

While I'm just one person, I've had the Moderna shots and more recently the third booster. I feel great and after 7 months, I have yet to have a third ear grow from my forehead. I live in an area that 1 out of 145 residents have died. No one in my extended family has caught Covid after two vaccination shots and the family members who have died were unvaccinated.

As it should be the choice is yours. Just don't rely totally on what you read on the internet, cute cartons, or what you heard happened to a friends third cousins sister's boy's best friend. The world is full both intentional and unintentional misinformation, half truths and even lies. It's a lot like politics I suppose in that if you tell a lie long enough, people will start to believe.

From: Treeline
19-Sep-21

Treeline's Link
This could be very interesting. Project Veritas on the injections…

19-Sep-21
The "valid" reason someone may not get the vaccine is that its their choice. In a free society choosing not to take a medication, vaccine or treatment is accepted. That's all the validity needed.

For those who think freedom is silly or outdated, there are other "valid" reasons. Medically, natural immunity is proving to be superior to the vaccine with zero of the risks and unknowns of the vaccine. Hard to argue that healthy, recovered people choosing to not get vaccinated are making an invalid choice.

From: Stringwacker
19-Sep-21
......the freewill search for natural immunity has in all likelihood lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I agree 100% that the choice is an individual one and the choice not just to take it is completely valid. We seem to have folks that can come up with a lot of questionable facts other than 'I don't want to" that can influence others.

I believe that the choice of whether to vax or not will remain with us until the risk of Covid is mitigated; or on the other hand continues its deadly course without abatement. I fear in the latter case, government will eventually take the same course of action taken with other historical long enduring chronic diseases of the past such polio and small pox...and mandate the vaccine for it.

Being a republican and having voted a straight republican ticket in all national races since I could vote since 1980, I could have easily made a freewill choice to be an anti-vaxxer save a chronic medical condition I have,,,,,, and the first hand heartbreak I have witnessed in our community. At heart, I believe that if you choose to step off in front of a semi; that should be your choice.

I'm just saying that I'd rather you not step off in front of the semi and to also choose to look at the merits of the vaccine more closely. The latter as a means to get us out of this mess we are in as what we are doing doesn't seem to be working.

19-Sep-21
"Medically, natural immunity is proving to be superior to the vaccine with zero of the risks and unknowns of the vaccine."

no but natural immunity (aka infection) has all the risks and unknowns of the virus itself, including that pesky little thing called death, for multiple millions world wide.

From: Stringwacker
19-Sep-21
Somehow I had a double post...deleted it.

19-Sep-21
"...no but natural immunity (aka infection) has all the risks and unknowns of the virus itself, including that pesky little thing called death, for multiple millions world wide."

Agreed. I have no issue with all those people worldwide having the vaccine available.

From: Rocky D
19-Sep-21
“ "So please, all of you who want to give medical advice on an archery forum, PLEASE post a copy of your medical license." *crickets*”

DanaC, if this is the standard then it spans the spectrum of topics that is discussed. This should not be surprise though because it fits with the liberal elitist mentality! *Chirp*

From: TGbow
19-Sep-21

TGbow's embedded Photo
TGbow's embedded Photo
Leftist cant deal with facts

From: Whitey
19-Sep-21

Whitey's embedded Photo
Whitey's embedded Photo

From: TGbow
19-Sep-21
Whitey, somebody needs to inform the Democrat and Republican parties exactly what you posted. The founders were not granting us rights, they were acknowledging rights we already have.

Listen to comments made by the AG Merrick Garland concerning gun control...this people have no regard for the constitution

From: Treeline
20-Sep-21

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo

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