Summit Treestands
Slick Trick viper trick issue…
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
MA-PAdeerslayer 12-Sep-21
Lost Arra 12-Sep-21
standswittaknife 12-Sep-21
Pat Lefemine 12-Sep-21
Jethro 12-Sep-21
Grunter 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
Matt 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
Matt 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
Jethro 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
smarba 12-Sep-21
Grunter 12-Sep-21
midwest 12-Sep-21
SaddleReaper 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
yeager 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
Dale06 12-Sep-21
Matt 12-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-21
Lost Arra 13-Sep-21
Jethro 13-Sep-21
Twinetickler 13-Sep-21
yeager 13-Sep-21
yeager 13-Sep-21
Lost Arra 13-Sep-21
Twinetickler 13-Sep-21
Bill in MI 13-Sep-21
Coondog 13-Sep-21
Blood 13-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 13-Sep-21
smarba 14-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 14-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 15-Sep-21
smarba 15-Sep-21
MA-PAdeerslayer 15-Sep-21
Jethro 15-Sep-21
ND String Puller 15-Sep-21
Twinetickler 15-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 15-Sep-21
ND String Puller 15-Sep-21
midwest 15-Sep-21
EmbryOklahoma 15-Sep-21
12-Sep-21

EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
I’ve always liked the look of the VT and have always heard great things from people who shoot them. I bought a couple packs for my wife and myself last week and received them today. After assembling them, it seems there are some manufacturing quality issues that leave this gap. I’ve tried reading old threads on multiple sights and have ran across this issue only recently.

So, anyone else see this as a fit up problem? Maybe due to the ownership change and maybe changing manufacturing vendors? I’d really like to use them, but that gap concerns me. For the record, the arrow insert and washer are basically swedging the blades into the ferrule.

12-Sep-21
Small oring on threads before you put head on. I had one do that to me from the packs I ordered. I used it at my continual practice head and it’s flying fine. Zero issues

From: Lost Arra
12-Sep-21
I think at least in part it's the anodizing on the smooth part of the ferrule that fits into the insert, not the threads. The black anodizing is too thick (I don't really know if its anodizing or paint). I had one that I noticed was tight screwing into both a brass and aluminum insert so I just wiped it with an abrasive cloth to remove the black stuff and it all fit fine.

I did have one that the small blade when seated left a tiny shoulder at the base so I did the o-ring method and it worked for a cow elk.

If the darn things didn't fly so well and kill stuff I would probably look elsewhere but I'm almost too superstitious to change.

12-Sep-21
Love those heads Rick and have really performed great..never had this issue at all w them..

From: Pat Lefemine
12-Sep-21
I hope the conglomerate that acquired them keep the same level of quality that Gary demanded when he owned ST. He had exceptionally high standards and very unlikely a defective head (like the pic above) would have ever been shipped knowing his commitment to quality control. Hopefully just a fluke.

From: Jethro
12-Sep-21
Unfortunately it may not be a fluke. That is the 2nd pic I've seen in a month that the head won't tighten down onto the insert/washer. Just like Embry's, the other pic I saw was on a pack of Vipers purchased this year.

From: Grunter
12-Sep-21
Can you add another washer to snug it up?

12-Sep-21
Grunter… no. What is happening is the washer is actually contacting the radius on the inside of the bottom of the blades. The arrow insert is actually wedging the the washer up into the blades, holding them in place.

From: Matt
12-Sep-21
If I am seeing it correctly, the broadhead is stopping before it is fully seated. I had this issue before with a few VPA heads, it was due to the specs being just a bit off of AMO standards by just a hair. The VPA heads would fully screw into some Easton inserts but not into the Carbon Tech inserts.

12-Sep-21

EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
Gap from the blade positioning.
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
Gap from the blade positioning.
Here’s a bit more breakdown… as you can see by the photo, the ferrule will seat into the insert with washer but minus blades.

I then put the two blade components together and you can see where the washer is not seating. It looks to me (arrows pointing), that the blades themselves might be the issue. Appears the slot, either on the main blade or the small blade, aren’t deep enough to allow a level plane to occur and also allow the washer to seat against the ferrule better.

From: Matt
12-Sep-21
That is not what it initially looked like. I am guessing that the blade or insert dimensions are off (most likely the blades).

12-Sep-21
It could also be the machined ferrule dimensions are off and not letting the blades go up high enough to eliminate the gap.

From: Jethro
12-Sep-21

Jethro's embedded Photo
Jethro's embedded Photo
Ferrule is totally different than previous years model. Doesn’t look anything like mine

Edit: difference could just be weight. Mine are 125g.

12-Sep-21
Jethro, mine are 100gr.

From: smarba
12-Sep-21
I shoot 125 and haven't seen this issue with new ownership versions. Definitely something wrong with the tolerances, I guess try to call them.

From: Grunter
12-Sep-21
Ahh that makes more sense. Hopefully you can return for money back or a xchange.

From: midwest
12-Sep-21
Rick, chuck that washer up in the lathe and bore it out about another 10 thou then add a good size chamfer. Should mate up like a champ! ;-)

From: SaddleReaper
12-Sep-21
hahah @ midwest.

That washer was probably $.03.

As has been stated there are AMO standards that the ferrule shoulder diameter should meet (.2025- .2045" if my memory serves) then there's a step in the shoulder which falls under that cheap stamped washer - I think its .215"ish. Then as you demonstrated there's a corner chamfer/ rad on the inside corners of those stamped blades that could be out of spec. - it looks large to me..

If I were you I'd give TOG/ ST a jingle and have them send you a new pack. Then keep those ones and throw an O-ring between the ferrule and washer to tighten up, and use 'em for practice.

12-Sep-21
Yea, I thought about it Nick, but that’s too much work. :)

12-Sep-21
Good point SR… my next plan is to call them tomorrow.

From: yeager
12-Sep-21
Rick, in the picture with you holding the two blades together, it looks like that 90 degree angle where your arrow is pointing to is rounded. If it was actually square, the washer could actually slide flush with the bottom of the blade. At least that what’s it looks like to me.

12-Sep-21
Bob, that is true. But, in my opinion, it’s either the mating slots on the blades being too small and not allowing the blades to go up the .020 - .030 that is needed to mate up properly. And again, it could be the dimensions on the ferrule that are out and creating this gap.

From: Dale06
12-Sep-21
I shot ST magnums a few years. They were awesome. Sad to see that apparently their QC is slipping.

From: Matt
12-Sep-21
Does it seat properly with the blades but without the washer? Might tell you if the back of the blades will dimensionally fit into the insert but not the washer.

12-Sep-21

EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
EmbryOklahoma's embedded Photo
Matt… same issue. The arrow insert simply wedges into the radius of the 90 degree and pushes the blades up into the ferrule.

From: Lost Arra
13-Sep-21
Update here. After seeing this I opened a new package I received last week. Three of the four broadheads have similar problems to Rick's. I'm making it work with o-ring. The fourth ferrule won't fit into any insert I have: gold tip brass, gt aluminum, carbon express, easton. It's totally unusable so I got three broadheads in a four pack with an extra set of blades. I think the pop-up ad is telling me something (QAD Exodus??)

From: Jethro
13-Sep-21
Is hard to tell for sure judging from Embry's pics, but it appears the notches/grooves cut in the top of both blades are not as deep as the ones I have from last year. I will have to buy replacement blades yet this season. Little worried about what I'll get.

From: Twinetickler
13-Sep-21
Dang, glad I saw this. I recently picked up two packs of 100 grain Vipers. My issue is the ferrule is too fat to get the threads down into the insert. Totally useless and disappointing. Thanks for the post, I have time to return them and get dialed in with a new head.

From: yeager
13-Sep-21

yeager's embedded Photo
yeager's embedded Photo
Rick…….yeah, I see what you mean. I’m using the Slick Trick Magnums for a musk ox hunt the beginning of October. Here’s a picture of mine. They mate up fairly tight and have them flying great out to 60 yards. I normally use Rage Hypodermics, but just might even use the Slick Tricks of whitetails here in Illinois.

From: yeager
13-Sep-21
Rick…….yeah, I see what you mean. I’m using the Slick Trick Magnums for a musk ox hunt the beginning of October. Here’s a picture of mine. They mate up fairly tight and have them flying great out to 60 yards. I normally use Rage Hypodermics, but just might even use the Slick Tricks of whitetails here in Illinois.

From: Lost Arra
13-Sep-21
twinetickler: were all of the ferrules in the pack too wide to fit in the insert? I only had one out of four.

From: Twinetickler
13-Sep-21
I only tried one, figured I paid for 4. Already returned them for Ramcat Diamondbacks. Slicks have been good, but too many other solid options to dick with them imo.

From: Bill in MI
13-Sep-21
Bummer, glad I have a few packs from 5-6 years ago

From: Coondog
13-Sep-21
Bought two brand new packs a few weeks back. Haven’t had any issues with the hardened steel (black) ones. However, the stainless steel ones have rattled on my arrows in the past for no reason; tried everything to fix it. Did you ever think that your inserts might be seated too far forward in the shafts for the broadheads?

From: Blood
13-Sep-21
My son shoots the VP tricks. I just looked at his….we bought two new packs for our elk hunt. Similar thing, but we used a broadhead wrench, they snuggled up tight…..and they have been flying well for practice. I’ll have to look at all of them to see if they are all like the one I pulled out his quiver.

13-Sep-21
“ Did you ever think that your inserts might be seated too far forward in the shafts for the broadheads?” Not sure what you mean, but I put a ferrule and washer (minus blades-see pic in thread) in my arrow and it seated up accordingly.

From: smarba
14-Sep-21
Hey, I just looked at mine at home 125 Viper. Switch the direction of the washer. One side is intended to fit the radius of the blade; when installed the opposite direction it creates the gap you indicated.

14-Sep-21
Smarba, good thought but that’s not the issue.

I did call the customer service today and they informed me that a .010 gap is normal. Hmmm, well the gap on mine is greater than .01, and I’d bet it’s around .020 - .030... I also emailed them some photos to look at. Now we wait.

15-Sep-21
Here’s the reply I got from “tech support”…

“Hello Rick, Hope this email finds you well! There was a revision made to our Viper Trick mid-late 2020 to the design of the ferrules that fixed an issue with the Alcatraz Blade locking System. This revision which fixed the issue also left a small gap present once the head is completely assembled. This will not affect flight, penetration or performance of the broadhead.“

I see what they are doing, the design is making a “wedge” to hold the blades into the ferrule. The washer is designed to push the smaller blade up into the larger blade, and in turn, wedging into the ferrule. Guess I could put a small o-ring to keep the gap from appearing, but I’m afraid the blades will simply cut the o-ring from applied pressure.

Seems like a lot of work to get things like I want them. I may be making too much of this, but issues like this get in my head and then it concerns me and I obsess about it. Grrrr!

From: smarba
15-Sep-21
Well that stinks...

15-Sep-21
I’m gonna try the new ones I bought a month or two ago….I don’t remember a gap tho…. I would have noticed that…

From: Jethro
15-Sep-21
They made a change to correct a problem we didn't have and now we have problems.

15-Sep-21
So they are ok with that gap... smh. If it were me I’d ether return them or use a Dremel tool to fix the issue. And look elsewhere next time. In my mind a tight connection between the blades ferrule and insert is paramount. Yes it will fly but it will damage your insert and arrow on a solid hit. I’ve only shot the standards and magnums but haven’t purchased for awhile. Sounds like they need better QC and engineers. Dang

From: Twinetickler
15-Sep-21
I dumped mine, have a pack of the old standards and am sticking to Ramcats for now. I agree, why fix something that wasn't broke. Too bad

15-Sep-21
This was the second guy to email me back… “ Rick, After talking with the engineer regarding this he said this gaps looks to be within tolerance and that you shouldn’t have any issues with this head. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this or If there is anything else we can do for you.”

My reply back…. “Everyone I’ve talked with that have used multiple styles of slick trick heads tell me that this is not normal. I’ve killed animals with a multitude of broadheads over my 30 years of bow hunting and I’ve never seen a gap in any of the heads I’ve used.

I understand that this is engineered in a way that pushes the washer into the smaller blade, that pushes into the larger blade and seats at the top of the ferrule. But a large gap? That’s more than “the normal .010 gap” I was told. I’m not buying it. I would recommend you guys work on your tolerances and design.”

15-Sep-21
Hell yes ! Good job

From: midwest
15-Sep-21
Yep, pretty sad excuse.

Looking forward to slipping an Exodus through an animal or 6 this year. They sure live up to the hype as far as quality, design, and sharpness. Flight is superb as well!

15-Sep-21
This was my reply to the first guy from tech support…

“ I’m not buying that. I’ve inquired on multiple bowsite’s about the gap and everyone (including numerous makes of ST heads) says this isn’t normal. A .02 - .03 gap? A tech I talked to yesterday from customer service said a .010 gap “is normal”, but the gaps on mine are again, in the .02 - .03 range. Within my 30 years of spinning heads on arrows, I’ve never seen a gap as large as these… and ALL cinch up to the ferrule and the arrow insert. If I were the owner of ST heads, I’d work on my tolerances and design to make less of a gap. I really was looking forward to using the viper tricks for the first time, but if this gap between the ferrule and washer is normal, I’ll use a different head or stick to my Magnus heads.

Rick Embry”

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