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Bowhunter killed by blackpowder hunterCO
Sounds like yesterday not much info out.
Not good for bow hunting in Colorado.
Will end up in another push to eliminate or further limit archery hunting.
Heck, there are a lot of high power rifle hunters out there - bear, deer, elk, etc. With all the rifle and muzzle loader hunters out there in September, it just makes sense to get the bowhunters out of the woods...
Not good for any type of hunting anyplace
I guess Colorado does not have a hunter orange requirement for anyone (including bowhunters) hunting during the firearms seasons???
Not enough info for a conclusion of who and why and how. Need more information. 44,000 bow hunters and 30,000 rifle ML hunters in the Colorado field after elk during parts of September. Add in high powered rifle bear hunters, etc, etc.
When I’ve bowhunted Colorado for elk during muzzleloader week, I wore orange. Didn’t want someone else’s irresponsibility to cost me my life.
Even if your wearing camo. As a hunter you should always know what your shooting at? How can you shoot at anything that is camo or any color without verifying what your shooting at?
Tragic. Still a very safe activity compared to many others but very sad to hear this. Will wait for details.
"How can you shoot at anything that is camo or any color without verifying what your shooting at? "
Unfortunately the mind can play tricks on you. If you're looking hard enough for 'deer' you may see one where none are.
Years ago, rifle season in a no-orange state, I saw movement. Buck!?!? Fortunately I had binoculars. Glassed the area and after a minute made out the hunter in camo pants and plaid jacket. Dam' near crapped my pants. The hell of it is, just for a moment I would have *_sworn_* I saw antlers.
First - yeah, Safety 101 says never use your rifle scope to glass. Second, 'hunter orange' has been proven to disrupt the 'pattern recognition' part of your brain so you don't make mistakes like this. Third, ever since that day I will not hunt during gun season without at least an orange hat. Fourth, hey, you want to bowhunt during gun season? I could, but 'screw that!'
Bad news. I have called in M/Loaders in the past and didn't quite know how to handle the situation. I would sit tight and let them pass but calling out to them might be best.
Sad situation that happens multiple times every year. I feel safer walking through the woods than any US cesspool city though.
Unfortunately, all of Colorado's bow season is gun season. We have a variety of things like rifle bear tags, cow tags, a week of muzzleloader & high country mule deer running during "bow" season.
Game recognition and being sure of your target and beyond. Too many incidents, NOT accidents occur every year due to lack of due diligence by the offender. As noted above also, NEVER use your rifle scope to glass. During Sportsmen Ed classes we like to review previous "incidents" such as a Rottweiler with a collar being brought into a bear check station, a Collie brought in as "the largest fox I've ever shot", a moose killed, from a road by a woman who "just shot the biggest deer I've ever seen". Also a friend of mine was shot by a 17 year old rifle hunter during archery season. It was in a bow-only area, during archery season, on private property. The hunter and his dad were trespassing and he fired when he thought he heard a deer in some bushes, where my friend was set up. Sound shooting, trespassing, poaching out of season, and non-legal implement. The 30-06 missed his femoral artery by 2". or he would've bled to death in moments. Buck fever, camo clad, sound shooting, all lame ass excuses. There is only one thing in the woods that looks like a man, and that is a man. The same goes for any animal that you are pursuing.
I can only say that as a kid I grew up hunting. I had a respect for firearms before I was ten years old, the idea that someone would take a sound shot, I thought was a Joke at best! However I grew up in a family and relation that hunted, so I had allot of practical learning by example before I was old enough to carry my own weapon. The idea that someone could take another persons life, even by accident, for lack of a better word scares me. What could be worse!
This same situation happened a few years ago here in Colorado. The ML rifle hunter from out of state, stated he took a sound shot at last light, and what he thought was an elk. This resulted in a dead of a youth bow hunter hunting with his dad. The family petitioned the CPW Commission to demand that all bow hunters wear hunter orange during a rifle season. The petition did not make the cut and was dismissed. Hunter orange, as stated in the Big Game brochure, is recommended if the archery season coincides with a rifle season.
I dont see how wearing orange saves you if people are taking shots through brush because they heard something on the other side. Need max punishment for this kind of "accident".
Where orange is not armor but it’s better than nothing
Terrible! Simple fix though. Don’t allow any rifle or ML hunts during bow season. NM is archery only during archery. No overlapping weapon seasons.
Butcher the problem with your fix when it has been discussed the fix it always making archery season shorter.
When we get muzzleloader hunters respond to calling or if we see orange we sneak out the other way before they get close. This would also be my fear if crossbows are legalized during bow season. Loaded, cocked arrow on a hair trigger with someone in camo while we are walking around sounding like elk.
We should have put ML after bow decades ago due to crowding. The quiet period between archery and rifle was always deemed off limits so that wouldn't fly. Except now they found a justification for adding some rifle tags in that slot in a few units.
You would be surprised how many ML rifle hunters take off their Hunter Orange, once they take to the woods and feel out of the sight of the law.
Ermine: "Even if your wearing camo. As a hunter you should always know what your shooting at? How can you shoot at anything that is camo or any color without verifying what your shooting at?" Of course we dont know the details yet, but if it was a case , like Ermine stated, shooting without verifying, that is totally avoidable
A bunch of years ago I was working a bull in a small herd, The cows were filtering by and the bull was following. Just as I was about to draw a shot rang out and everything took off. Turned out there was a ML hunter that heard my calling and came from the other direction. He ended up shooting the bull that was right between us. I think they should move ML to the first week of rifle and move rifle back a week
Muzzy hunters are doing the Crime! Should just ban Muzzy hunting!!
I personally know a girl who was shot and luckily survived during the muzzy hunt as well. She was wearing Orange! Was a last light incident, guy shot from a vehicle with a fake “handicap“ (claimed PTSD to get a dr to sign the paper) permit- then tried to flee the scene!! Luckily was caught- can’t go too fast on a single track dirt road.
I always told my son like my Dad told me, there is never any excuse for shooting another person thinking you are shooting an animal. Simply verify what you are shooting at
I have been “called in“ while hunting with a ML.
The calling was not very well done, so we were pretty suspicious on the way in, and the collar must’ve seen us coming… He leaned his bow up against the tree where his fletching‘s were highly visible, so we walked away. Pair of. binoculars comes in really handy at a time like that.
NO EFFING WAY would I attempt to sneak out of an area if I knew that I had called in someone carrying a rifle. At that point… yell, scream, whistle, hoot, holler….
Whatever it takes to make it clear to all concerned that this is a No Shoot situation… as quickly as possible. They don’t make elk big enough to be worth a close call, let alone killing anybody or ending up dead.
I archery hunted my whole life until 2 years ago when shoulder problems had me pick up a muzzleloader. I’m still in favor of separating archery and muzzleloader seasons. But the simple fact is KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU’RE SHOOTING AT!!! Isn’t that hunter Ed 101. Tragic incident and prayers go out to all involved.
Every day of Colorado’s archery season has rifle hunters in it. We do not have an archery season.
For context...anyone know how many Colorado bowhunters have been wounded or killed by a ML or rifle hunter?
This is not a bow hunting issue but a ML rifle issue. Bow hunters should not be penalized for the actions of a ML hunter killing of a bow hunter, as in the past or in the future. If it comes up, Mandating that bow hunters wear Hunter Orange or even changing the bow hunting seasons will be an over reaction and really not addressing the true issue of different matters of take, hunting seasons overlapping.
Thinking a person is an animal for a split second and shooting at that “animal” are two completely different things. If you can’t see well enough to know it’s human then how in the hell do you know what part of the animal you are shooting at. People like this that are crack shooting at movement or sound need hung in the court square.
you are right Cory. No excuse
Agreed. Don’t make bow hunters wear orange. Move all firearm seasons to start after bow season. At least on Govt lands.
Totally inexcusable, this is no "accident " just a stupid decision! Should be charged with murder. Scary knowing that there are people in the woods with ZERO common sense.
Jay, this is my 50th year bowhunting big game in CO. We've been trying to get that done since then. Instead, CPW keeps adding more firearm opportunities during September, while telling archers to suck it up and live with it.
More gun hunters equals more revenue. And wildlife agencies are forever chasing dollars.
Gf, they weren’t even close!!! If they we’re that close of course I let them know! I always carry an orange stocking cap or t- shirt in my pack!
I am shocked they allow rifle bear hunters to hunt during archery season.
Alt., the 'middle' bear season in Mass. allows rifles and falls in the middle of archery deer season. There aren't many people targeting bears here so it's not a big deal. (Can't bait 'em or run 'em with hounds here.)
Yes, there are obviously those imbeciles that take sound shots (if you actually believe them, seems like a cop out to me). But prob all of us who hunt public will recall a time when we see or hear something that we think is an animal. When that happens, the Adrenalin flows and we have to be extra careful to be sure of our target. Most of the time we are, but youth or inexperienced hunters can unfortunately make mistakes.
Also, more than once I have been ready to see an animal and when I saw something move I noticed blaze orange right away. It does help.
For me, the compromise would be to make bowhunters use blaze orange camo. Animals don’t see color, so they won’t be more alarmed than someone wearing regular camo. It won’t solve the problem completely but it should help.
Only other solution I see is to eliminate all rifle seasons during archery season. Could make the Muzzy season Oct 1-7. I would be ok with that. But that doesn’t give the animals any rest from hunters before first rifle.
I chose not to hunt one evening at elk camp this year. Instead, I decided to walk to a nearby clear-cut just to glass until dark. I was wearing an all black hoodie and my tan ATG pants, sitting on a fallen tree. Moments before legal shooting light ended, 3 rifle shots rang out from the ridge side apposite of me. I glassed in the direction of the noise and immediately spotted the orange-clad bear hunter with his rifle pointing in my direction. Suddenly, I realized what I was wearing could cause me to be mistaken for a black bear. I have to admit, it gave me a little pucker factor, so I quickly took the hoodie off to expose the red t-shirt I was wearing underneath.
I later talked to the hunter. As it turns out, the bear was below him on his side of the drainage, and he had already spotted me . He was using a lever action with iron sights, and failed to compensate for the extreme downward angle of the shot, so he missed all 3 shots. He was a nice guy, and also a bowhunter. I wanted to ask him if he thought there should be a rifle bear season during archery, but I decided it wasn't worth it. I already knew what his answer was by his actions.
I packed up my camp and left the next day.
Pure Negligence and incomprehensible.
“ Make sure of your target and beyond”
Many individuals are at a loss here.
What this incident did is push the thoughts of going to two nine day archery hunts. It's been discussed since guys started sending pictures and videos claiming and showing guys shooting elk at 80 to over 100 yards. Commissioners told us two years ago bowhunters were capable of killing elk at black powder ranges and didn't need a 30 day season anymore. Add this to the fact that some f&g guys going into the shop have been talking of cpw talking of going to a cap system for bowhunters. Colorado's otc units and 30 days seasons are limited.
I always thought I was relatively safe during MZ season figuring they'd be really sure of their target like a bow hunter is knowing they don't have a follow up shot. I guess that is not the case. Time to start bringing some spare orange, at least some for pack.
Would be nice to have a 100% bow only season. Why not overlap MZ season with regular rifle seasons? You know, gunpowder with gunpowder. For multiple reasons besides safety this should be a thing.
Had a close call as the shooter once. North east deer season(100% gun, mandatory orange), eating lunch at the car, I always have the gun ready nearby because quite often deer pop out. Sitting there in peace than all of a sudden a huge commotion to my left. I hear this crashing through a swamp/man made canal area area to my left. Tall catails and grasses. I grab the shotgun. I see movement, flashes of brown, and huge noise. Gotta be at least 2 deer. Less than 20 yards and getting closer. My heart is pounding they are kicking out right towards me. Another movement of brown, flash of white too! They've been kicked up! Closer still. The exit to the cattails are 10 yards from me/my car. It's gonna be a close quick shot. Heart racing. Legs starting to shake. Safety flicked off, aiming down the barrel both eyes open, pointed at the brown coming through, finger hovering over the trigger guard. Then BAM!........... A trapper pops out his eyes wide at me like I was a semi truck, he's wearing camo weighters, a brown carhartt, and a white hat....
Immediately safety on, gun up in the air and a "are you [email protected]#$ing kidding me!" At the beaver trapper. Told him he about got shot with a 12gauge. That's the closest I ever came to shooting another human. A lesser hunter, and as evident by this article would have been blasting way sooner. And I'm talking to you 6am north east shooters(sunrise 730)
Different regs in every state. What 'works' in Mass. probably don't fly in Miss. I can bow hunt during the shotgun and ML seasons but if/when I do I am bound by 'orange' rules. Take my chances with the bird hunters.
I wear blaze orange when bow hunting public land during muzzle loader season. Period.
No excuse to shoot someone. Period. Hunter Ed 101. I’ve been shot albeit was birdshot. Still bad to pluck some pellets out and thankfully none to the head/face/eyes. Took it off the shoulder/side of my chest. Also someone who was shooting into movement where me and the dog were. Mind you I and the dog had orange vests on. It’s a good thing my father and brother were there otherwise the hunter with no dog who shot probably wouldn’t have made it out of the woods on his own power. The following year a guy hunting with his grandson was shot in the face with and life fighted out. Crested a hill and someone shot a bird flying just over the knoll. Always gotta be looking.
38,000 people are killed in traffic/auto accidents each year and we are worried that this one accident will change the hunting system!
I'm not worried about safety concerns during ML anymore than any other rifle season. Risk is incredibly low. I am more worried about the amount of rifle and muzzleloader pressure during "bow" season. Along with something new from CPW to address accidents. Usually bowhunters lose something regardless of what may be fair.
Would it change anyone’s perspective if the bow hunter was using a bow mounted cow elk decoy? Without more details, that would be a possibility.
It would still be negligence homicide, but in that case, not sure I would be so quick to send the guy to prison.
“38,000 people are killed in traffic/auto accidents each year and we are worried that this one accident will change the hunting system!”
No not worried at all as it has no effect in the least it is a data point an anomaly a shame and a crime but it is not a trend any more than any other weird and rare way to go changes things.
Nick, why did you yell at the trapper? He didn't almost get himself shot. You almost shot him. That incident is 100% on you. You should have never bore down on an unknown in the brush. The yelling should have been by the trapper at you. These "accidents" happen because people get so amped up to shoot something that they don't properly identify the target before taking action.
My first trip out to Colorado outside of Meeker, the day before we got there someone had shot his partner with a bow and killed him. It is a very sad and tragic thing as with anything where someone gets killed because of it. But, things happen with everything in life in most of these hunting situations where there is an injury or death, it could have been prevented if you just pick your spot on the ANIMAL you are targeting and what/who is on the other side. If the person in this case that died was camoed, he perhaps should have diffused the situation by exposing himself.
Spot on Aspen Ghost.... what special kind of stupid is it to have a firearm with safety off pointed at a noise. But then again, Nick Nick has never really given us reason to believe he's very bright on any issue.
"Heart racing. Legs starting to shake. Safety flicked off, aiming down the barrel both eyes open, pointed at the brown coming through, finger hovering over the trigger guard." - Truly a dumbass and a discredit to hunting.
Don’t know if decoys played a role here. But it is a reminder not to use decoys when gun hunters are in the woods. Especially one that attaches to your bow.
I'm glad a few of you called Nick's post out. As I read it, I was thinking he's exactly the type of so-called "hunter" that is likely to shoot someone. The irony of Nick blaming the trapper for his own potentially deadly carelessness is just sad.
It will be interesting to see the details of this incident, if/when they come out. I can't help noting that both parties were out-of-state hunters. Perhaps lack of experience, and their inability to tell the difference between human and real elk calls played a part in this tragedy? Decoys most certainly could have played a part. Or, it could have been just plain old trigger-happy negligence. Hopefully, we'll find out some day.
One thing is certain. The lives of many people were changed for the worse, and one life was ended, because of this tragic incident. Perfect ammo for the antis, sadly.
Soccer, just let me know the general area your going and I’ll head the other way! Weather you have a bow or gun in your hands! My son is out there also, I don’t rest easy when I hear crap like that!!!
Txhunter in that decoy pic the only shot presented is in the cows head. I think some are excusing this because they’ve mistaken people for animals. There’s a big difference in thinking something behind brush is an animal and “Safety flicked off, aiming down the barrel both eyes open, pointed at the brown coming through, finger hovering over the trigger guard. Then BAM!..........”
As already stated in this thread, there is a difference between thinking or hearing something is your target species vs shooting at the wrong animal/or at a person.... that is my point.
IE... there are 2 types of hunters, those who shoot on sight, movement, and noise alone, and those that dont', those that wait for 100% confirmation of target. There is NO in between.
Don't try using your mental gymanstics and preconceived notions of me to lump me into something I'm not.
Also willing to bet that 90% of people here and hunters in general would have been aiming in the general direction/had their firearm in the high alert ready position too. Frankly you can say you wouldn't have but I don't believe you.
And BS if you say you haven't already. Who here hasnt' drawn their bow or readied their firearm at a big rustle coming through the brush only to have it be a squirrel, or a fox, or a dog, or even another bow hunter. If you drew back and it turned out to not be your species you just put yourself in the same boat as me, just happened to not be a human popping out... You hear the noise, you see the movement, it's quick, your heart skips a beat, you've trained to draw when the animals eyes are concealed of your movement, it's draw now while it's coming out or when they are in the open to see you. BS if you have't drawn your hunting implement in this situation. If you aren't BSing than you must be hunting on some solid private land.
Again, 2 types of hunters. Those that shoot without verifying, and those that don't.
(side note, I get decoys, but damn wouldn't be near one when deployed regardless of private land etc)
^.....where I hunt, I don't think I ever pointed a barrel or arrow at a noise. No need to as I know what I'm hunting and what it sounds like. The areas have pretty good vis. That said, about 6 years ago the wife and I were in a pop-up watching a shooting lane. I heard a snap and looked to my left. I hear something walking loudly from left to right. I then see hunter orange walking into the shooting lane. It was a young kid....20-something probably. We made eye contact and he kept walking thru the shooting lane. Him and another young kid were trying to do a push thru the forest where several other folks were stand/blind hunting. Not too smart on their part doing pushes with other hunters staked out nearby. We never raised a gun at the noise. We left and I caught up to the kids back at the parking area. They said they walked up on the other hunters out there too.
I've never shouldered a weapon, pointed a weapon,had safety off, or raised a bow with a nocked arrow while hunting until target in view.
Doing otherwise would violate safe gun handling and hunter education rules.
I would say 90% of hunters take the proper approach. The rest are just slobs that end up killing or maiming someone. It's pretty cut and dry.
90% of hunters do the right thing.
Soccer, I know they didn't teach you those behaviors in hunter education. They are not the norm, believe it or not.
There are 2 types of hunters, those who are safe, and those who are not. Fortunately, 90% or more are safe.
Having a rifle or shotgun at port position is entirely different than shouldered, aimed and safety off. No, I know few people who would draw their bow and point towards an unverified target. That's ridiculous.
@Soccern23ny I have never raised my rifle to look down the scope at a sound I heard coming. I also have never drawn my bow just because I heard a sound coming. I hunt 100% public land. In my opinion there is no need to, an animal is not worth breaking basic hunter safty rules.
Nick, the behavior you describe isn't normal. If you keep up the behavior you describe you are going to end up hurting someone.
We had a hunter shot during ML season by his brother. He survived. The wardens re-enacted the scene with the brown coveralls the victim wore, along with the hood pulled up. The victim was shot as he crawled under a dead blowdown. With dead branches behind the head, the wardens were fooled themselves. They took pictures and it was unbelievable how real it looked. It was concluded that with even an orange hat the shooting would have never happened. No charges filed. Our bow season runs concurrently with both ML and rifle season. I wear a hot pink hat, and an orange vest when moving. When sitting, they hang from branches above me. Walking out, I always use a headlamp, no matter the season.
Just got back from muzzleloader in Colorado. I've bowhunted before that. When I bowhunted I wore orange during the days of ML season I was there. I'm also a hunter ed instructor in Virginia. Don't y'all think the orange law is ludicrous? The the person with the ML is not the one that needs to be wearing orange. It's everyone else around the ML hunter.
Lawdy: Good point. Not understanding the science of “sight” is ignorance. Over simplifying it for space ... light rays enter the eye and optic nerve and go to the brain TO BE INTERPRETED. People here seem to want to be obstinate about their ignorance of science. There ‘’s a lot of obstinate ignorance about science in this country right now. In any event ... it has to be accepted ... no matter how wrong ... that it happens. Given that; the suggestions for avoiding injury and death put forward here are good ones. By the way ... how can the state require orange to protect muzzle loader hunters in the woods and not protect archery hunters who are in the same woods ... I don’t understand.
Never, ever have drawn my bow on noise!!! Or pointed my firearm in the direction of noise in the brush! Unbelievable!!! Take hunter safety again, and pay attention! My boy would not have done that when he started hunting either…..wow!!! And he started when he was 10 in Nebraska!
"BS if you haven't drawn your hunting implement in this situation."
Not once in over 40 years of hunting with multiple weapon types. You are the problem and you're defending your actions. I would say unbelievable, but you've posted enough drivel that your unsafe, unethical behavior is not surprising.
Soccer I’ve been hunting for 30 years and I’ve never aimed my gun at movement or drawn my bow at noise. Took the hunter safety class when I was 8. Cardinal rule “never point at anything you don’t intend to kill”. Sounds like you need to take some basic hunting education classes.
I have had other hunters admit to me they used their scopes to glass. Several were talking about watching me in their scope really?? One was with a Ruger 270 known for mechanical safety issues.
Never, ever, ever, ever point the gun in a direction you don't intend to shoot. Be aware of what is in front of and well beyond your target.
Shoot a bullet, slug, musket ball, crossbow bolt, arrow you can't take it back.
Always have in the back of your head the idea that there could be criminal elements in the woods. The vast, vast majority of these things are stupid mistakes, premature closure, mistaken target but also can be property disputes, robbery and theft, love triangle revenge you name it. A very, very, well publicized case in Central WI is just one example.
So sorry to hear of this case, fact is based on the number of hunters and hours in the woods it is incredibly rare. A study a while back indicated that football, baseball, and even ping pong are many times more dangerous than hunting... Something like 3,200 serious injuries, deaths for 100,000 participants (football). Where hunting is usually <1 per 100,000. But still no reason to have a human mistaken for game,ever.
Yup, Nick Nick is exactly the type guy who is likely to shoot someone. It's scary that he actually thinks his careless behavior is normal. Some guys shouldn't be allowed in the woods with a weapon of any sort.
I believe there are a lot of gun hunters who if they think they see a deer will pull their gun up....... Yes I believe that!
I worry about this alot now in Wisconsin since they allowed xguns for all. I make damn sure I have a flashlight when going in, in the dark and coming out in the dark.
Scoped crossbows are the elite "after shooting hours" weapon, no noise to alert the neighbors or wardens.
Does not appear that a decoy was involved
“When he saw white in the pines, he took a shot at what he thought was an elk,”
"he heard an elk bugle and scream and believed a bull elk was coming his way."
Nowhere does it say he verified the target before aiming and firing. That's why a man is dead, and a man is in jail.
I’ve hunted that unit twice. When he heard a bugle his first thought should have been hunter. The time I went there during muzzy season I was covered up in muzzy guys and most were tooting their flutes. Makes a guy think he should learn to blow a flute so you don’t get confused with a bull in the brush.
Not sure if some of you know how to read here. When did i say i ready my weapon at a noise alone? or that others do that?
Here... I'll put it in a form you might understand, ala tucker carlson.
"Did I say I point on noise alone?" (no) Did I say you/others point on noise alone?(no)
It's very simple, if you have ever drawn back or readied your weapon due to 'noise+movement+what looks like your target species' and anything other than your target species popped out than you are as wrong as you complain about. And again, I don't believe for a second that you haven't at least once been fooled and were "at the ready" and were near certain it was your animal coming out and it ended up not being the species you were actively hunting. I don't believe it for a second.
Again, 2 types of hunters, those that shoot without 100% confirmation, and those that don't.
Nick Nick, I've grabbed my bow from its hanger, or off the ground, and nocked an arrow, when I've heard approaching noises, but I've never drawn my bow without confirmation of my target. And I've certainly never shouldered my rifle and pointed it in the direction of a noise. Believe it, or not, I don't really care.
Soccermom - your exact words... " It's gonna be a close quick shot. Heart racing. Legs starting to shake. Safety flicked off, aiming down the barrel both eyes open, pointed at the brown coming through, finger hovering over the trigger guard."
If you at all try to justify that statement with anything short of "holy shit I majorly F'ed up I will never do something as stupid as that the rest of my life." You need to stick with soccer and never touch a weapon of any type ever again.
The fact that is not your respond and you did not learn from your stupidity I think most would agree you have no business ever hunting again.
Put my wife and I in the column of never pointing a weapon in the direction of sound, in anticipation of a shot. One of the cardinal rules of firearm handling; never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. That applies to ANY weapon. How can you intend to shoot something you haven't even identified? In bowhunting, I chalk that thinking up to high let-off bows. We never draw until a shot is imminent. When to draw use to be a bowhunting skill. Now it's become, draw as early as possible and wait to see if you get a shot.
But I'm also concerned with how many bowhunters are so willing to be penalized for someone else's actions by OFFERING to wear clown colors while hunting. Why should the group who needs protection be penalized because another group can't be trusted to act safely? Get the rifle hunters out of archery season!
Ive never pointed a gun at a sound. Never ever. That’s ridiculous. Better yet I’ve also never drawn my bow at a sound. Who does that?? If I hear a sound I look to see what it is before I draw my bow. That’s silly to draw a bow or point a firearm in the direction of a sound
C'mon guys, Soccermom did say he saw "brown coming thru". Isn't that enough to shoulder your firearm, click the safety off, and aim in that direction?
Like someone said earlier, I'm glad he doesn't hunt anywhere close to me.
Most of my life I bowhunted during the gun season. I would go way before first light and climb a tree in a real thick area. About coffee break time the guys on the public hunting area would start walking around and deer would come to me. Killed lots of deer that way. I have let deer go by that were plenty close enough to shoot but I don't shoot unless i can get the shot I want. When I would put an arrow through a deer I would take my orange hat and vest out of my back pack, put it on and get my deer. I have known two people that got shot.
Ive never pointed a gun at a sound. Never ever. That’s ridiculous. Better yet I’ve also never drawn my bow at a sound. Who does that?? If I hear a sound I look to see what it is before I draw my bow. That’s silly to draw a bow or point a firearm in the direction of a sound
Keep digging instead of coming to the realization you messed up bad, and came close to hurting someone! Learn from it and be a safer more responsible hunter going forward!
All you Saints better be careful
Mistakes happen to all types of people.
Mistakes do happen to everyone or as I tell me nephew when he breaks farm equipment, “shit happens”. That said shooting someone or pointing a gun at them for that matter is no mistake. As I also tell me nephew and my kids, “you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes”. This hunter from Pennsylvania just won a felony murder charge and soccer mom was almost there with him.
Soccern23, you had your safety off and pointed at a human. There's no excuse for that. You cannot possibly justify it. Doubling down just makes it worse.
You get ready at sound, sight, etc. that does not mean shouldering your rifle. As far as pointing? Until you have a spot picked on the animal your hunting, that is too far. No questions.
That would be an interesting encounter if I popped out of the trees on public land and onto a public road , and a guy was pointing a shotgun at me with the saftey off asking wtf I was doing!
Put me in the camp of not ever pointing a weapon at a noise in the woods
Everyone should watch the comedy movie Idiocracy. It’s a hilarious fictional comedy from around 15 years ago.
Unfortunately as the years go by it seems to be less of a comedy and more like an accurate prediction of the future.
As a hunter safety instructor I’d say first and foremost, be sure of your target and what’s beyond it. Second, he apparently has a bull tag, wouldn’t he want make sure that’s a bull? And a legal bull? I’ve been hunting close to 50 years and have never drawn my bow or shouldered my rifle until I identified my target.
“ Some of you trying to justify it as accidental because your eyes/mind might play tricks on you is disturbing in itself.”
You are showing your ignorance.
CO Did a review of cases in which moose were mistaken for Elk, and they found that the majority of the shooters were quite experienced Elk hunters who were adept at picking out small parts of an animal, rather than needing to see the whole thing at once in order to identify it.
The human brain has an extraordinary capacity for filling in the blanks to get a “complete” view of things, even when not all of the parts are actually there.
Point being, it’s just plain necessary to assume that whatever it is that you are seeing or hearing is a human until you have conclusive proof to the contrary.
If you are not willing to do that, then you are clearly willing to kill a human “by mistake” in order to fill a tag. THAT is what’s disturbing: not the acknowledgment that it CAN happen (which is NOT the same as excusing it!!) but the belief that ANYONE is immune.
While I am sure that a resident Colorado hunter has killed another Colorado hunter during the rifle elk season over time, but what is interesting concerning the past two shootings of a bow hunter by a ML hunter was that both ML hunters were from out of state and maybe had never hunted elk at all and there might even be a chance that the ML hunters have never even seen a live elk before coming to Colorado. I know in 1988, my first trip to bow hunt elk in Colorado, I had never seen or heard a live elk.
So lets believe that these ML hunters, were hunting during a short block of time, say a week or 10 days and were down to the last few days and were becoming frustrated by not seeing many or no elk at all. Their trigger fingers were getting itchy. and all of a sudden, they see movement and their eyes started to play tricks on them, ie, an elk appears before them, no not all of the elk but enough to convince them it was an elk. Fire away!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard to tell that really happened. Three years ago the ML hunters stated it was during the last minutes of shooting, low light, and he "took a sound shot", as he was convinced there was an elk ahead. Turned out to be a young bow hunter hunting just outside of a camping area. This latest accident is still under investigation but it will be interesting to hear, what the ML hunter actually saw and why he did not identify his target.
Even this bow season while watching for elk as the sun was coming up or setting, the shadows surely can take on "animal shapes" or as the light reflected off a tan log or brush, the item might become an animal be sought. If I had not had my binoculars to confirm that I thought was an elk or deer, I can see how someone just might convince themselves , "that just has to be an elk/deer." Bang!
Not good for any type of hunting anyplace
Paul no one knows what these guys saw but unless they thought they saw the entire body of an elk I don’t get it. I can’t imagine shooting at a 12” piece of animal not knowing wether that piece was ham or rib cage.
Another golden rule if you were able to get there even with all the extra effort of going in early, across swamps up huge hills, across creeks, through tangled brush, etc., etc.
It's always very possible and many times probable another hunter can do the same thing. It can be a human you are hearing coming through the woods to that secret hard to get spot, just as much as it could be a elk, bear, whitetail, turkey, etc. Always, always remember that. If you got there, so can someone else. Be sure of your target, period.
I have thought about this every time I hunt during ML season. This year I hunted the last week after ML and felt a lot safer. One thing that struck me though was that my backpack is tan, just like a deer or elk and though I have used it for years, it will be replaced with some other color that at least doesn't look like like the back side of an elk. These stories are really a tragedy. Many people have had their lives changed forever and one fellow lost his. I feel like I must always teach my kids and grandkids these things and help them be the next generation of safe hunters who love the sport - hoping we still have places for them to hunt in the years to come!
I'm guessing, when the final investigation wraps up. We all might be in for a shocking surprise in the end results.
Scott, the investigation is wrapped up. Shooter has been charged. No surprises. The shooter and his buddy called in the bowhunter and shot him. The bowhunter thought he was working in on an elk and was calling and raking on his way in. That could certainly get the shooter fired up but is no excuse to shoot at movement. Every elk hunter knows that it's common to call in other hunters.
The shooter did not wait to identify if the movement he saw was an elk. The shooter not only didn't ascertain it was an elk but he didn't ascertain if it was a legal 4 point or better bull elk and he didn't ascertain if he was aiming at the right spot on the "elk".
Here's another article from a few weeks ago with a little more info. https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/big-game/bowhunter-accidentally-killed-by-fellow-elk-hunter-in-colorado
It sounds very much like the hunter panic Nick described in his story. The only difference being Nick managed not to pull the trigger.
From the article: According to an arrest affidavit, Morosko and Pepke had been calling in elk and got several responses from multiple bulls. Pepke directed Morosko into a treed area to set up for a shot. Morosko reported hearing a bull elk bugle, scrape, and continue to approach him.
“When he saw white in the pines, he took a shot at what he thought was an elk,” Dolores County Sheriff Don Wilson wrote in the affidavit.
Aspen brings up a good point. If you have a cow tag, wouldn't you first Identify if it's a cow. If you have a bull tag, is this not a 4 point unit? Such a tragedy.
If you're hunting and you shoot somebody, you should go to prison. Period.
I quit hunting with a rifle because of sound shooters. Sounds like an email campaign or petition is needed to get all gun seasons out of September. If the CPW can’t figure it out, then they are just as negligent as these sound shooters.....
So you’re advocating collective punishment of all firearms hunters because some minuscule percentage of them have made horrible, stupid & tragic decisions.
So it stands to reason that we should advocate for a ban on all human-driven automobiles because some people drive under the influence of one substance or another. And clearly, we should just ban ALL firearms, because so many people use them to harm themselves and others.
My brother had a good friend who was killed (along with 3 or 4 or 5 other people) in a Mass Murder incident when some guy ran amok with a claw hammer. Ban ‘em!!
Where would you like to see this stop? Should the government ban penises because they are involved in nearly 100% rapes??
I’m with Ike. Criminal Negligence is a Crime and should be prosecuted as such. Doesn’t matter if it’s a hunter shooting a hunter or a motorist mowing down a bicycle. Leave the responsible 99.44% out of it.
I firmly believe we shouldn't have rifle seasons during archery here in CO but rare tragedies like this aren't the reason. Not diminishing the loss of the victim but statistically hunting is very safe. Bowhunting has massively outpaced rifle hunting in growth here the last few decades. Instead of allocating more room in the fall to accommodate the growth, they have shortened the season and increased crowding from other users during the season.
I’m advocating for separation of bow and rifle........
No question at all that the pressure is out of control. Drainage I used to hunt is now devoid of Elk, but the ranch down the road now has a herd of 300-400.
But…. Funny Thing. If you do the numbers.. it’s not centerfire or ML hunter numbers that have exploded, it’s BOWHUNTERS.
And your solution is to kick out the muzzleloaders…. which have about the same effective range as a compound, really.
They weren’t so much a problem until all you guys showed up.
I've read numerous articles that state overall hunter numbers have been on a steady decline since the early '80s. So why doesn't it seem that way when you go to the woods? I've got a few ideas on that, but would like to hear others thoughts, first.
Tv, magazines have highlighted areas, hot spots, various species. In times past hunters did not travel to multiple states like today. Management and leasing/ outfitting also tie up large chunks of land. I’ve seen the numbers that there are lower hunter numbers, but, woods are more crowded than in the past
The muzzleloader was found guilty by a jury.
So sorry to hear of this case, fact is based on the number of hunters and hours in the woods it is incredibly rare. A study a while back indicated that football, baseball, and even ping pong are many times more dangerous than hunting... Something like 3,200 serious injuries, deaths for 100,000 participants (football). Where hunting is usually <1 per 100,000. But still no reason to have a human mistaken for game,ever. Sad, sad situation for both hunters and the family.
Not sure what Muzzy Corax has been looking at but guys are easily shooting out to 200 yards. Season should be separate bulls only or require all hunters to have at least an orange hat. People get stupid when they think they see an elk.
Tony, that sounds good but we don't need any more restrictions on bowhunters just because other public land users may do something stupid. We can choose to wear a lighted orange full body suit if we want. CPW has no intention of separating seasons unless bowhunters want to give up 9 days for a ML-only season.
That aside, in CO during "archery" season we also have rifle bear hunters, rifle deer hunters, rifle cow elk hunters, etc. Frankly, it is a testament to good practices that more people aren't shot in September.
Good! I’m glad the verdict was guilty. Sad for the family of the deceased bowhunter. There is absolutely no reason to shoot an unidentified target through brush. Definitely negligent.
I am saddened by the lost life. I am also saddened by the people who want to condemn based on the weapon used. I was brought up in an era before blaze orange was popular. The problem we have is people not taking responsibility for their actions. It is followed closely by a willingness not to hold people accountable. I try very hard to tell non hunters that a responsible hunter is absolutely sure of his target and beyond. I feel like like a hypocrite to tell them to wear blaze orange in the woods during hunting seasons because some people out there are not responsible hunters.
"The problem we have is people not taking responsibility for their actions. It is followed closely by a willingness to hold people accountable."
Which is precisely why anyone involved in a DWI should be charged with criminal negligence and anyone that causes a DWI fatality should be charged with criminal negligent homicide...
I know a guy from my home town that took his teenage son to Colorado several years ago elk hunting during early season archery. They were walking along slowly before legal shooting light and all of a sudden an arrow whizzed over his kids head a few inches and stuck in a tree. This turned into a heated argument with the guy who had shot thinking it was elk. It also turned into a bad ass beating. Guy from here got charged with assault and he gladly paid the fine.
“Not sure what Muzzy Corax has been looking at but guys are easily shooting out to 200 yards. ”
You’re out of context. Maybe where you live, but with iron sights and full-bore projectiles?? I don’ theeeen so, Lusie…
The CO MLA got that season authorized for a very specific reason, and they have done as much as they could to uphold the spirit of the law as enacted; they were even able to get in-lines prohibited for a short while before the state backed off and settled for requiring the ballistic equivalent of a period correct rifle.
Nobody has been able to do that for Archery. The let-off limitation (if it’s even still in place) is a mighty small fig-leaf.
Most people with a little firearms experience can learn to be quite accurate (for hunting purposes) with a compound at known distances out to 35-40 yards in very little time at all. Hell, 30 years ago, a buddy of mine was grouping into 4” at 20 yards inside of an hour, with 10 minutes of instruction, 50% let-off and a tab. At about that time, there was a young guy who was a pretty good shot who was asked by one of the biggest bowhunting rags what he thought his maximum ethical range was, and he said he topped out at 35 yards, with one of the pocket-sized optical rangefinders we had back then. Veterinarian, as I recall. I think he won a coupla belt buckles or something…
Point being, 30 years ago, bowhunting was about a 35-yard proposition, tops, no matter how good you were on paper or foam. Yes, some people used to shoot a lot farther, and they wounded a lot of animals. Because they were stupid.
Bringing the thought back to the point of this thread… People who expect to have to get close enough to pick a hair and place their shots with great precision are a lot safer to be around.