Is this even possible?
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Femoral artery - full of peas.
Femoral artery - full of peas.
Ok - crazy question here. Has anyone ever seen evidence of food matter short circuiting the digestive system (due to an arrow). Is it possible for the peas that this deer was eating to end up in the arteries? Because I am looking at it right now…
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Ok - a little more detail… arrow went thru both lungs about 3” above the heart. I did not look for damage to esophagus or trachea.
Any vets or self-taught ‘experts’ care to weigh in on this one?
Ok - a little more detail… arrow went thru both lungs about 3” above the heart. I did not look for damage to esophagus or trachea.
Any vets or self-taught ‘experts’ care to weigh in on this one?
From: JohnMC
21-Oct-21
What part of the deer is that from?
From: drycreek
21-Oct-21
Must have been lots of energy in that arrow !
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
The pictures attached were from the femoral artery (located in the ham), but there were some in the front shoulders too.
From: Dirtman
21-Oct-21
Aspirated and entered pulmonary system due wound from the broadhead?
From: KSflatlander
21-Oct-21
I say there is no physical way for food to end up inside the pulmonary system. The digestive system is a separate system. Something else is going on here.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Dirtman - that appears to be what’s happened. I’ve never heard of this before and my vet says (nearly) impossible. Has anyone else seen this ???
From: Brotsky
21-Oct-21
I'll take crazy, unexplained sh!t for $500 Alex.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
KSflatlander - I agree entirely. But it’s staring me in the face. The heart pulls from the lungs, which had two holes in them - if the esophagus were cut, spilling peas into the chest cavity, could they get sucked up, travel thru the heart and out to the arteries?? That’s the only scenario that makes any sense here. PS - I would call bs too if it weren’t right in front of me.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
FYI - the deer was eating split peas when I shot. 30 yard blood trail, all over in 15 seconds.
From: Ricky The Cabel Guy
21-Oct-21
the peas were in the femoral artery because split peas go well with ham.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Ricky - that’s as good as any explanation I’ve heard. :) Should have been mustard in the artery as well.
From: Altitude Sickness
21-Oct-21
Well, I think you just proved it can happen. The best person to answer would be a trauma surgeon, combat medic or Combat surgeon. Of course they may not have found peas. But bits of clothing and other foreign objects.
From: BullBuster
21-Oct-21
Clearly peas in the cut esophagus entered pulmonary artery, was transferred to the left atrium then left ventricle then pumped out into the peripheral circulation. Pretty wild.
From: Old Reb
21-Oct-21
I have no idea but that many peas in a major artery, like the femoral, would be considered a major blockage in the circulatory system. Also you would think it would take some major blood pressure to push them to the hams. Odd for sure.
From: yooper89
21-Oct-21
Credit to you for killing him before a pulmonary embolism got him. Doing the Lord’s work.
From: APauls
21-Oct-21
As Wild as that is - and crazy Wild it is congrats on a beautiful buck!!! Thanks for sharing that insane story
From: Old Reb
21-Oct-21
After further thought, it is possible that the buck had been shot previously by a poacher using a muzzle loading shotgun stuffed with peas. The peas did not hit any vital organs to cause immediate death. :)
From: KSflatlander
21-Oct-21
Good thing you took pictures so when you tell your great grandkids they can't call you a crazy old man. Or worse, put you in a home because of it. LOL.
Agree with APauls. Great buck and dead eye shot. Congrats.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
This just in. Cause of death… COVID!
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
This just in. Cause of death… COVID!
From: elkmtngear
21-Oct-21
Aortic arch lies 3 inches above the heart (where the hit was).
If it was severed, and somehow peas were "blasted" into it at the right time during the heart cycle, they could easily travel to the femoral arteries ( in theory).
All this would happen in a matter of seconds
From: Hancock West
21-Oct-21
Picture makes it look like he was a healthy deer. You'd think he would have been lethargic or sluggish.
From: greg simon
21-Oct-21
I can wrap my head around how that is possible but the volume of peas present in that artery really blows my mind!!! I would think maybe one or two.
Congratulations on a great buck!!!
From: LINK
21-Oct-21
Hancock he was probably really lethargic within a few seconds…
From: drycreek
21-Oct-21
I’m just impressed that someone saw a deer actually eating peas. I’ve planted Austrian Winter peas several times and never seen a damn pea vine chewed on yet. Maybe my deer like grain better.
From: Habitat
21-Oct-21
What takes blood from the lungs to blood stream is very small in the lungs and I doubt that it could pass.would be more likely that it got into heart and pumped there but that would also be doubtful. Email Dr. james Kroll
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Hancock - the buck got very sluggish about ten seconds after the shot. No peas were in his pulmonary system prior to my ‘interference’
From: t-roy
21-Oct-21
That is crazy! Were there peas in both femoral arteries, or only one of the hams? BTW…congrats on your buck, as well.
From: Joey Ward
21-Oct-21
It’s called the Carbonaro effect. ;-)
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
Peas in both femoral arteries - also in shoulders. Crazy.
From: Bou'bound
21-Oct-21
All I know is if I ever shot a buck like that I’d have peas in my arteries to
From: Old Reb
21-Oct-21
All kidding aside, congratulations on a very nice buck. It would be interesting to hear what Dr. Kroll would have to say as someone mentioned up above.
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
I emailed dr deer - will share his thoughts with y’all - did I say that right? Y’all??
From: Twinetickler
21-Oct-21
Helluva buck! Nice job. What kind of broadhead? Can't comment on the peas other than that is also how you kill a polar bear.......you cut a big hole in the ice and put peas around it. When the bear comes to take a pea you kick him in the ice hole!
From: Whatthefoc
21-Oct-21
125 Montec went between ribs in and out. Never touched a bone. Would have been a perfect shot for an expandable :)
125 Montec went between ribs in and out. Never touched a bone. Would have been a perfect shot for an expandable :)
From: Buffalo1
21-Oct-21
Very nice buck- congrats !! In Southern terminology- "Hold my beer- you ain't gonna believe this sh#t !!"
From: drycreek
21-Oct-21
Y’all is right, but down here in Texas we don’t allow no canucks to use our best words. ;-)
Congrats on a very nice buck, peas or no peas !
From: Shug
21-Oct-21
Congrats on the buck..
From: Treeline
21-Oct-21
What a crazy story! Have never heard anything like it. Looking forward to what Dr. Kroll or any of the Doctors or veterinarians have to say…
One hell of a nice bucks though! Congratulations!
From: Jaquomo
21-Oct-21
Don't know about peas in the bloodstream, but I once shot coffee out my nose on the TBM tracking spider thread..
From: Corax_latrans
21-Oct-21
Well played, Lou!
From: Shuteye
22-Oct-21
Really nice buck and great shot on him. Can't explain the peas but some of the explanations above sound possible.
From: ND String Puller
22-Oct-21
Wow ! Next year plant garlic and peppercorns...hey O.
Unreal!
From: orionsbrother
22-Oct-21
Congrats on your buck. If you get sick of your handle, you could always go with Peashooter.
From: Catscratch
22-Oct-21
I wonder if a mouthful of peas got sucked into the primary bronchi as it took a panic breath on the shot, which allowed them to be transferred from the respiratory system to the circulatory system through broadhead damage? The aorta would run up from the heart, to the underside of the spine, then straight to the legs. All that stuff would be in close proximity anyway. Very cool find!
From: WV Mountaineer
22-Oct-21
There’s got to be an explanation. But, I don’t know it. However, I do know you killed a good one! Congrats.
From: orionsbrother
22-Oct-21
Congrats on your buck. If you get sick of your handle, you could always go with Peashooter.
From: Chief 419
22-Oct-21
Covid caused the peas to enter his arteries without question. Congrats on the buck though. Great tine length.
From: Mitchman
22-Oct-21
If only that poor deer had been wearing a mask, this would have never happened!
From: orionsbrother
22-Oct-21
Congrats on your buck. If you get sick of your handle, you could always go with Peashooter.
From: deerhunter72
22-Oct-21
My first thought was no, that's not possible. I thought the "peas" could be infected lymph nodes, but they sure look like peas that somehow got sucked into the arterial system. That's wild!! That's one heck of a nice buck and a perfect shot. Congratulations!
From: wilbur
22-Oct-21
TBM ham blaster
From: Supernaut
22-Oct-21
Great buck and one heck of an unusual experience!
I keep checking this thread to see if a vet or a wildlife biologist or a physiologist chimes in with an theory.
Just proves the old, "never say never" adage.
From: Rut Nut
22-Oct-21
I think Elkmtngear nailed it! I think the peas would have been too big to go thru pulmonary circulation-also probably not enough time before death................I think the likely entry point was Aorta which would also make sense that the highest velocity of blood flow would be there too(coming out of left ventricle)
From: KSflatlander
22-Oct-21
If the Aorta is severed then the blood pressure would drop to zero?
From: Bou'bound
22-Oct-21
All I know is if I ever shot a buck like that I’d have peas in my arteries to
From: Whatthefoc
08-Nov-21
the autopsy continues…. We pulled the heart out of the freezer, and as I was cutting it up, guess what fell out? More green feed peas. Only a couple of em, but there they are!!
From: Whatthefoc
08-Nov-21
the autopsy continues…. We pulled the heart out of the freezer, and as I was cutting it up, guess what fell out? More green feed peas. Only a couple of em, but there they are!!
From: APauls
08-Nov-21
Trevor that's just crazy. Please do keep us updated if you get an opinion from doctor deer or whoever. Assuming those are split peas you can use for baiting in sask right? Are they smaller than full peas? Easier to get into the veins? Crazy to think that there's enough blood pressure to push them all the way to the hams. Must have great arterial elasticity. A measure of great health lol.
From: Rut Nut
08-Nov-21
Well, I think I figured it out- the pulmonary vein carries oxygenated blood back to the heart to be pumped out to the extremities. It lies right behind the Aorta and the blood it carries empties into the heart to be pumped out to the extremities. If it was cut but the heart remained in tact, it would keep pumping for several seconds pushing blood out into the aorta. The blood pressure would not drop to zero right away as the heart would continue to pump, at least for a short time. That would explain the peas in the heart and peripheral arteries.
From: Rut Nut
08-Nov-21
I believe the esophagus empties into the digestive tract in this area too, so that could be how the peas got into the pulmonary vein, if the broadhead sliced both......
From: 2Wild Bill
08-Nov-21
They are not peas.
From: elkmtngear
08-Nov-21
"That would explain the peas in the heart and peripheral arteries".
I thought about this initially, then remembered the valves. Peas would have to get through all the valves in the atria and ventricles during the heart cycle...I don't think that's possible, or at least they wouldn't show up downstream in one piece. They would more likely be left swirling around in the chambers.
From: 2Wild Bill
08-Nov-21
RN wife believes it to be a hoax.
From: deerhunter72
08-Nov-21
Could be someone trying to have a little fun with hunters??
From: Old Reb
08-Nov-21
I'm starting to agree with 2Wild Bill and his RN wife.
From: Tonybear61
08-Nov-21
Pulmonary is a sealed system, separate from the digestive tract. Nice try but no. Not buying it...
From: Whatthefoc
08-Nov-21
Sealed system? After a sharp broadhead? Cmon Tony, as bow hunters, our mission is to “un-seal” the pulmonary system. !!! ??
From: Rut Nut
09-Nov-21
Elkmtngear- why would the valves stop the peas? Why would they NOT be carried away in the blood?
From: elkmtngear
09-Nov-21
Rut Nut, they physically wouldn't fit through all the valves in a deer heart, IMHO, at least not in the numbers the OP was finding downstream. They would back up in the atria and ventricles, so I would expect the heart to be packed with them if they cycled through it.
The picture looks like a few peas were found near the outflow side of the aortic valve, which would make sense it it was severed.
From: Rut Nut
09-Nov-21
The valves are larger than the arteries, so I would expect they would pass thru easily. Which is probably why there were not many in the heart. If they were backing up in the heart like you suggest, wouldn’t there be more than a few?
From: elkmtngear
09-Nov-21
"The valves are larger than the arteries"
Valves open up INSIDE the arteries, and the leaflets only open partially inside the lumen. Vegetation occasionally builds up around the leaflets of these valves, due to low pressure areas around the valves, also in atrial fibrillation, large clots can build up in the atria, that do not express downstream.
Also, oxygenated blood from the lungs, is under relatively low pressure inside the pulmonary vein.
From: ki-ke
09-Nov-21
"I'll take crazy, unexplained sh!t for $500 Alex." LOL
Congrats on a beautiful buck!!
From: Rut Nut
09-Nov-21
Well, I still think if the peas made it into the smaller arteries of the periphery, they would have no problem making it thru the heart valves. THe fact that there were only a few peas found in the heart would seem to back this up. ........................
From: elkmtngear
09-Nov-21
"THe fact that there were only a few peas found in the heart would seem to back this up".
Unless the entry point was actually the aorta itself, which would explain a few peas laying against the outflow of the aortic valve, and none in the chambers.
From: Rut Nut
09-Nov-21
I still contend the heart was probably beating at least for several seconds after the broadhead cut the Aorta which would make it highly unlikely the peas got into the heart from this (the outflow) side, with the heart still pumping blood out...............
From: Whatthefoc
09-Nov-21
The peas could not enter any vessel that was under pressure. There would have to be an entry that was slightly negative to pull them in. The aortic vein is usually slightly positive in pressure (at least that what wiki says - for humans), but if it were completely severed, and the left ventricular kept trying to pull from the lungs, it could pull from the chest cavity instead. I researched diameters of aortic vein and the main arteries - all are large enough to pass a pea. As for the valves, I could not find any sizes on those, but given what I am seeing here, I am very sure they can pass.
This is no hoax - I’m just an old bow hunter like most of you. I’d like to change the name of this thread to “this IS possible!!” It may be one in a million, but like Jim Carey said in Dumb and Dumber … so you’re saying there’s a chance! …
