I think it is great that other people love them. I am all for people hunting how they like and if running multiple trail cameras is your thing, that is cool. I think it would be much more palatable to me if I owned my own piece of ground that I was managing, but for just permission hunting on private land it is just an extra step I don't need since I am not waiting on the biggest buck on the property and normally shoot the first thing that makes my heart pump a little. I hope this doesn't sound as I am being self righteous, because I am not. I actually am questioning why I don't care and actually a part of me wishes that I was as geeked on this stuff as what nearly everyone else who likes to hunt seems to be.
This guy walked down a trail 15 yards from a paved road on indiana public at around 530 yesterday. Im sitting here now hoping he does it again ha!
https://youtu.be/Q1OhoG_a5oU
Matt's Link
The only thing I have a problem with is the people who have that attitude, and therefore would like to force that attitude on others.
However, a lot of the enjoyment I get out of whitetail hunting is targeting specific animals and the chess match it can turn into, especially over multiple seasons. Since I live 1.5 hours from where I hunt cameras are just the only real way to figure out what's around each year in order to figure out who to target.
As far as patterning deer with cameras where I hunt, it’s not happening. Thick block woods and creek bottoms, plus we don’t bait, so less concentration in certain areas. I believe my wife is the only person on the land we hunt that has killed one that we had on camera. All of that said, it’s still fun to check cams and see a surprise buck. Best of luck to everyone this fall!
Since, I have transitioned to bigwoods hunting I will be using them on scrapes and leaving them up all year round to gain historical knowledge of the area.
So, maybe I'll like them more? But I'm with ya, I like the uncertainty and hunt way too big of an area to expect to kill a buck I get on camera at least with my non-big buck skills.
Could definitely see an advantage to the cell cams. I think the cams may be very useful for me since my deer hunting time will be very limited this year.
I will also agree with Mark about shooting what makes me happy and not knowing what is in the area.
I hunt some public and a couple private pieces. I will deliberately leave one or two without cameras so that I can go in there with all the mystery and optimism of a new spot! That’s how I killed a nice buck last year. First sit in the new spot with no knowledge of what’s there. That feeling of never knowing WHAT could show up. It’s exciting!!!!
On the same hand, playing chess with the most worthy opponent is equally as exciting and rewarding. With the buck I was chasing this year I had one night that I thought was “THE NIGHT” I thought I had him pegged as to movements etc and my heart rate was 120bpm all night…and he never even stepped out! Lol
Number one, I am definitely too cheap to buy them; number two I really don’t think that the cell phone enabled ones are entirely Sporting, because they give you basically real time information. That’s a problem. Seems that that would violate the rules against electronic communications being used in pursuit of game. But then I think that if you glass a herd of Elk on a hillside 3 miles distant and jump in the truck to take 2 1/2 miles off of that gap, then that is (strictly speaking) pursuit of a game animal via motor vehicle, which is illegal.
So anyway… I do not and will not use them. I think they are too disruptive to the animals’ routines outside of the season, and I don’t fancy myself being such a skilled hunter that I really need to pattern a specific animal in order to have a fulfilling season. I am perfectly happy with whatever it comes my way.
When it comes to hunting, my motto is probably “whatever comes by, the dumb ones die.”
“Hit list”, “inventory” and “shooter” are all words used by guys who have access to private land; you almost never hear that kind of language from a public land guy.
I like the pictures of all the 'other' animals out there as much as the deer pix. Have gotten everything from woodpeckers to moose.
DanaC's Link
One thing for sure: I absolutely love the mystery of not knowing what might show up at my tree when hunting. I'm all about the suspense.
The only real-time decision I have ever made was when to sleep over my coyote baits.
The camera pics are trophies to me. And if I ever sell my property my pics may cinch the deal if I’m selling to a hunter.
I respect everyone’s opinion on this topic and really don’t care if anyone likes them or not.
Don't really move them that often.........Just when I'm out clearing lanes, setting stands, scouting different spots, etc.........
Nice to see what's out there, from the comfort of the lazy boy, anytime, from anywhere. My son has the app on his phone too and can checks pictures from the same cameras. Fun to talk things over with him. Cool to see what's on scrapes and trails.
Seeing what's out there sure doesn't guarantee opportunities. But fun to look at all year long.
I think they're fun to use.
One thing that has surprised me about the cameras is that it’s almost as fun running them and looking at pics as hunting now. Never would have dreamed that. Another perk is that it gives me an excuse to go out there once a week. This is my third season using them now and I’m seeing some of the same bucks. I was lucky in the first year to kill a monster that I had captured on camera in the week before I killed him. And I did it again this week with a buck that I thought had been killed last year. He disappeared during the rut and didn’t reappear on camera until last week. And the cameras proved that this deer put on a tremendous amount of growth in one year. I never would have believed that this deer could change that much without the proof on the cameras. I’ll post a couple of pics of him.
I also really like seeing the others things the cameras capture like bobcats, owls, and even the stinking coyotes. Also, a trespasser now and then. So, I guess you’d say I’m a recent convert. I’ll have the cameras from now on.
Maybe because of all the tramping around in the woods to check them everyday might JUST let the deer pattern YOU? Naahhh.......... ;-)
If I had to guess, I would be like deerhunter72 if I had my own slice of heaven. I'd probably love the process of screwing with them at that point. It is not like I refuse to use them. I do put them out from time to time. I actually put one on a scrape the other day because my trail cam loving friend shamed me. I also bought 3 of them last year and shipped them to a friend in WY. He put them up for me in my elk area. I ended up having a handful of pictures of the elk I killed on there. Those pictures are really cool and I am glad I did that.
I LOVE the cameras. They've been such a huge learning tool for me where I hunt with a large tract of timber and no agriculture. Just seeing how deer move and access different areas has been eye opening.
Now when I get big buck daylight pics, I not only look at the date/time, etc., but I like to check wind direction. And think of how my setups would have worked or not worked.
It's really been a huge learning thing for me. I'm still not where I want to be when it comes to consistently killing older deer
We've had everything from poacher pics to good deer we've later shot, that's kinda fun. Last week was proof a ranchers neighbors dogs were killing his goats, caught in the act. Our rancher thinks we're golden. We don't have a ton of cameras and all cheap, a couple several years old.... maybe 4 or 5 cameras. Usually hang them high, 10 or 12 feet with wedges and wire, not straps, so they aren't as easy to see or steal. Even gone to camo with silk leaves, ferns and such hot glued to them.
WRT shooting stuff..... yeah. Choot em..... I can come up with a good reason for just about anything, from "that'll be some great eating" to "well, we got him out of the gene pool....." to "I know you can't eat antlers but you do know those packin' em are made of meat too?"
Here’s one that came in earlier. I think he was eating a pancake or a piece of cake, hard to tell. :)
Once the chase starts, all bets are off IMO
I honestly respect the OP option and thoughts. Nothing wrong with it at all or anyone’s else’s ethical way of hunting. Just as long as we are hunting.
Have a great season
Exactly! I get plenty of pictures of deer and bears, but once in a while something 'different' shows up. (This is in central Mass., not Alaska)
I'm just not infatuated with the technology of a camera and if I told the absolute truth I get bored easily with extended strategy banter. I guess I'm just one of those guys that hunting is a bit personal and I like to pursue it with my on thoughts and actions.
What I don't understand is the appeal of a hunt like Pat's recent Saskatchewan hunt. He showed up, picked the buck he wanted to kill based on trail cam pics, then sat over the appropriate bait pile for a whole day and a half until the buck inevitably showed up to be shot. To me, there wasn't much "hunting" involved by the shooter.
I know that won't be a popular opinion with some around here, but it's how I feel, so flame away.
Matt
If it wasn't much of a hunt, then why do it? Did you get any satisfaction out of killing the equivalent of conditioned livestock? Pat's buck literally had a mouth full of alfalfa when he shot it. I could never take any pride in killing an animal that way, much less make a featured re-cap of the hunt on a popular hunting website.
Woods Walker, I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Matt
I went to see something different. Didn't go back, although I know guys who go every year and would let me ride along.
If I hadn't ever gone, my opinion would be based on hearsay. At least now I *know*.
Fill your tag.... don't fill it. Fill it and hunt again tomorrow. Or move on to the next hunt, the next adventure. Every hunt is different, just as every meal isn't steak or lobster. A donut or bowl of ice cream can be pretty darn good and you don't have to do much to get it. Other times you spend hours in the kitchen or hot bbq or whatever..... some personal satisfaction as to the effort and skill along with (hopefully) a great meal. Sometimes somebody goes out to dinner. You know, where you decided off a menu and somebody else caught, killed, and cooked it for you. You didn't lift a finger but for lifting a fork and enjoy the food and the moment. Or sometimes a drive through and a big mac with fries. We all have our reasons of the moment.
Clearly most did enjoy following the hunt. I'd do one like that in a heartbeat. Then go do another for something else somewhere else. Repeat as necessary.
Matt
Yeah. I'll take that big mac.... eat it and be hungry for a steak tomorrow. But I'd hardly call Pat's hunt a big mac. Be like calling anything less than a DIY pack in 2 week elk not really hunting. Didn't work hard enough for it. No challenge. Not worthy.
WRT hanging up the bow..... when I'm at full draw and trying to stop my leg from shaking.... steady my breathing and my pin.... when that doesn't happen any more, that's when I hang it up. Well, except for bird season starts next week, I'll pretty much hang it up for the next 3 months. I'll use dogs too, couple of bird hunting machines really, and do it with a shotgun as well. Couple friends were crankin' me once "you just have to stay out until you get your limit don't you!" Told em' nope, not that at all. They make me STOP when I get my limit......
TD's analogy is spot on.
Same thing could be said about hunting cats with dogs...the dog trees the cat and some fat yankee walks up and decides if he wants to kill the cat that is "trapped in the tree." Talk to any guy who's been on a cat hunt (I have not) and it's a different story.
Baited bear hunts are no different than baited deer hunts. 90% of people have no issue with baited bear hunts. A lot goes into it, and a lot is said about picking the right site location, and baiting smart and proper. Smart old bears don't seem to walz right in to be shot. I can only assume the same with baited deer. I doubt they come as easy as you think.
Since the dawn of time - man as a hunter has looked to have an advantage over his prey. Whether it's the wind, calling or decoying in the rut, sitting water. At the end of the day, it's not your thing that's fine. A lot of guys can't get behind shooting coyotes, that's fine. Just don't rag on someone who does. Because guess what - if you get rid of every kind of hunting except "your sacred method" there won't be many left. And here's another shocker for you; if all the terrible methods are eliminated one by one your sacred method may not even be the last standing. Get over yourself and stop working to eliminate hunting.
Yes, anti-hunters are bringing axe's to chop down our giant tree that we have called HUNTING, while in the mean time thousands of hunters stand at the base whittling away with their knives......
Let's do a little pole to see where you draw the line. Years ago the turkeys that live on my property figured out that my horses are sloppy eaters, and they could get an easy meal from the grain my horses drop on the ground. Nowadays, it's common for 20-50 birds to be waiting for me when I walk out to the barn to feed every morning and evening. They act exactly like domestic chickens when they are around the barn. They aren't even afraid of my dogs. Once they get 50 yards away from my barn, they act like any other wild turkeys. Under that scenario, how many of you would hunt turkeys from my barn? It would be perfectly legal to do so. Or, would that be crossing your line?
Matt
Hell of a lot more ethical way to get turkey than "bagging one from the store" if you're talking ethics.
Adam, you may think that the infighting is destroying hunting...I've seen no evidence of that. It's just another of the many excuses used by baiters to try and justify their shortcomings. I know you're a hunter, I know it...and you know the difference.
For me, I'm going to fight against practices that I see destroying a heritage I care deeply about. Baiting is not hunting, you know this too...hell everyone knows this. If it goes away it will be for the betterment of future hunters, and yea that's my opinion and I ain't shutting up.
But I guess we should get back to trail cameras.
Exactly what part of killing one of these birds would you consider "hunting"?
In regards to baiting talked about here and on another thread, even if we choose not to call it hunting, licenses and other PR taxed gear were purchased and those funds are applied to wildlife conservation. That benefits us “hunters” more than any criticism ever will. Maybe we should remember that a little when we discuss protecting the hunting tradition for future generations?
But I still consider myself a hunter, and it still fits the definition of hunting as long as those birds are wild. Was it difficult? No, was it exciting? Prob not, was it an experience? No. But it’s still the taking of wild meat, and I’d rather do that than buy a Turkey.
There’s a sliding scale of “easy” on many hunts. To be honest most rifle deer hunts on private land would be easier than bow-killing one of your turkeys. We still allow “those people” under the hunting moniker
Took a 13 year old and his father to my farm this weekend in fact. Set them up in a stump blind with a youth model Mossberg .243.
This was their first hunt ever. Sat over a lush 4 acre food plot. A nice buck walked about 100 yards over a full minute in the open. Youngster could not find the deer in the scope as he kept walking.
In spite of all the encouragement, he decided to wait until next year to try again. Might be different if that buck had stopped at a corn pile, I don’t know. I would be OK with him shooting his first that way, learning to field dress and process, and moving on to hunting methods more rewarding.
I appreciate sincerely your views and respect tremendously how you hunt and your never ending support of introducing newcomers. You do it the BEST way, I just think it is not always so black and white. People will respond in different ways.
I don’t sit over bait piles, and my food plot, though large, is considered a bait plot by many. I guess lately I am loathe to criticize even a guy that hunts over a pile and spends lots of money doing so…I figure it helps conservation and capitalism is better than government handouts IMO. Besides, I bear hunt in Canada over baits so have no room to judge. By my way of thinking, these hundreds of tags and licenses I have bought through the years has done more good for our heritage than any legal pursuit method disagreed by some has damaged that tradition. And I respect that many disagree with me, but I will still buy you a beer if we ever meet!
It's bear season here, but looking back over the years, I've seen more bears from the truck seat than in the woods. We can't bait or run hounds so unless you're on a good food source it's a lot of dumb luck. If/when I really really *want* a good bear I'll do a guided bait hunt. Weapon will probably be large caliber.
So, when someone kills a big buck over bait, do you celebrate it, or question why?
Matt
Against cameras as well that aid a hunter.
Against allowing compounds and crossbows during peak rut period, and I shoot a compound.
But I am going to adapt to the rules of where I hunt.
Tired of trophy hunting too and calling that our heritage, it’s not. It’s something else, and I am ok with it just as I am with piles where legal. Remember, I am proud of the does I am stacking. We all have different standards, and I worry about me and what I think of my own actions.
But your approach is highly commendable!
I'd shake his hand and congratulate him like I would anyone else. That he shot a spike or doe with a rifle I'd still shake his hand. Certainly not going to dissect it as to how they did so, much less why. Just so they connected with the experience.... good for them. As much as one's "ethics", high moral standard and virtue signalling come into play, bottom line you just killed something. Make your personal justifications however you want if it makes you feel better. What you just killed does not view your ethics as making it's death any more or any less noble. That's a human 1st world construct. A fantasy that only mankind makes up to satisfy.... something..... certainly not hunger. If I had to guess I'd say karma was fine with the whole thing as long as you made use of it.
How I legally hunt is just that. I hunt. If mice were all that was left I'd hunt mice (and have, 40 years ago with a bb gun and flashlight in the kitchen at midnight, ask Coach....) Man is a predator and I hunt to embrace and continue that role in the world.
That I PERSONALLY choose to use a bow is an added level of difficulty I choose. My choice. As all choices how to legally hunt should be. Not to please anyone else. Killed a bucketload of game with a rifle, got to be like tipping over tin cans. If I could see it I could kill it. There is ZERO difference between a bowhunter over bait and a rifle set up at 200 yards waiting for the deer to filter out into an alfalfa field. Both should be a good clean kill if things go to plan. And neither are exactly the clockwork some may imagine they are.
Another level of difficulty I enjoy is targeting mature animals, normally mature males. I'll shoot others for meat and do. Have taken 5 deer this year, 2 good bucks, 2 does and a spike I thought was a doe. But a big mature animal makes me shake inside. Just is what it is, I'd have to deny reality if they didn't. Like pretty girls too but again prolly just a personal bias...... some things flip the right switches and others not so much. (Sorry Herm, Nancy Pelosi just don't do it for me....heheheheh....) Some would even say to feel more attracted to a pretty girl was wrong too. Good luck with that. I go with what pleases me. With what excites me.
APauls hit alot of great points. He's as right about all this as anyone here is..... because HE'S the one who makes the choices, not the ones who would critique those choices for whatever reasons they may feel they must.
Said it before..... it has amazed me at times to see the lengths folks will go to avoid having to deal with dead animals. =D
What a digression. Bowhunting is personal to me and I don't care what others think. If something trips my trigger and it's legal, leave me alone. I don't care how you shoot your deer and whether you have him on camera.... regardless the deer is just as dead either way.
Also....the whole I am against baiting to preserve the sport is ridiculous. What preserves the sport is people buying licenses and shooting stuff period. If they shoot too many, DNR should slow them down.
And yet, this topic.
From your OP - " I actually am questioning why I don't care and actually a part of me wishes that I was as geeked on this stuff as what nearly everyone else who likes to hunt seems to be. "
Hey, I don't understand the guys who spend hundreds of dollars on a release. Or the guys with scopes on their rifles, scopes that talk to the computer in their phone! Farm tools so you can turn your atv into a food plot tractor. Ozonics? Good gravy, what happened to a hanging a piece of thread off your upper limb and playing the wind? There have always been gear geeks in hunting, and yet every new 'game changer' draws ooohs and aaahs.
Now we have double-barrel crossbows, air and cartridge-powered bolt-flinging guns and what's next? What's next?
Gotten so these topics inevitably hit the 'more heat than light' point, and then stray.
I like 'em. I don't. Well, what about X? What about Y and Z?
Your choice whether to a accept or fight against every new 'technology', but in my 40 years of observation I can't recall many of these battles going the way of 'old school' hunters. Too much money to be made, too many 'adopters' for every 'new shiny'. Too much focus on the end result - dead deer. If all you want is 'efficiency', well, used to be bow hunting was NOT your choice. But 'longer seasons' sells millions of licenses and makes millions of dollars. So let's forget about 'hunting the hard way', and raise a generation of tech geeks to 'hunt'.
Sorry about the rant, but after 650 'I don't like it' topics, hey. If you didn't like it, were you fighting it at the *government* level when they were legalizing it? Does anyone *still* lobby against crossbows? Trail cams? 'Sniper' scopes? Crickets...
DanaC's Link
Shooting a yard turkey that doesn't care about your presence and you simply walk up and shoot vs a wily mature whitetail over a bait are two completely different scenarios and if you loop them together you're just being ignorant IMO. I rifle hunted Sask a few times and set up baits, albeit not for long periods of time. I hunted there 4 times, and shot 4 bucks, 3 of them really good bucks. Not one of them was over bait because it simply wasn't as effective for me. Leading me to believe it's not the slam dunk you think it is. Is it an advantage? For sure. Far cry from a yard bird beside the barn with a brain the size of a flattened peanut.
Pat's mature Sask buck didn't seem to be too wily. He walked right into the bait pile that Pat admitted he'd been hitting "consistently" according to trail cam pics, and literally had his face in a pile of alfalfa when Pat shot him. I'd call that a yard buck.
BTW, I never equated baiting deer in Sask to shooting a turkey at my barn. I honestly don't see much difference, but I used my turkey example just to see where people draw their line on hunting ethics. At least you provided an honest answer.
Matt
Who are these "same folks" you speak of, Ambush?
Matt
Matt
I was just recalling some of the conversation from an anti thread last year or so.
Matt
Again, that's a human construct, a first world mental justification for what essentially is your sport or recreation, not your survival. You construct your personal "rules" for your own reasons. Personal satisfaction at overcoming difficulties is one, self perceived skill maybe. Emotional reasons may be another. That is how it should be, personal. Looking down from tall horses at hunters who don't share your "rules" should not be one of them.
I believe there is term for very publicly stating one's moral superiority over others. Just sayin'....
FWIW.... Bowfreak's OP stated game cameras just didn't interest him and also stated he had no issues with those who used them and liked them. Certainly not that folks who used them were somehow unethical. He was good with just hunting not necessarily targeting "trophy" animals. Surely got no vibe he was critical of those who were. IMO a pretty reasonable take on personal choices.
Matt
Perhaps that will clear up the question of why you get to decide relevance in the first place.
Matt
BTW, I still like my game cameras;)
But I refuse to sit at home, having never taken part in a properly baited Sask hunt and tell the world I think it's the same as shooting a yard deer without having ever done it. That is my personal definition of ignorance. Ignorance, coincidentally would coincide with threads that get shut down.
Having watched TV shows on youtube that center on baiting in Saskatchewan - it is a completely different style of hunting. It's all about the right setup. Completely different than trying to hunt a buck on his natural movements. Do I think it's most likely easier in a wild place like that? For sure. There's a reason most outfitters and residents in Sask do it. And that isn't to make the hunt harder. But it's still hunting. And many hunters go to outfitter every year in Saskatchewan and come back without a trophy, or even the deer they were after. Never mind using archery equipment. Rob is obviously doing something right to have better success. Good for him, good for Pat. Congrats all around.
