Summit Treestands
How Far How Long Challenge
Mule Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
BUCKeye 12-Nov-21
JL 12-Nov-21
t-roy 12-Nov-21
Wv hillbilly 12-Nov-21
Pyrannah 12-Nov-21
Zim 12-Nov-21
APauls 12-Nov-21
LUNG$HOT 12-Nov-21
hawkeye in PA 12-Nov-21
smarba 12-Nov-21
Franklin 12-Nov-21
walleyes 12-Nov-21
spike78 12-Nov-21
Bowhunter09 12-Nov-21
PTArcher 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
greg simon 12-Nov-21
air leak 12-Nov-21
StickFlicker 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Dave B 12-Nov-21
JCarrowthem 12-Nov-21
SIP 12-Nov-21
Shug 12-Nov-21
Bowaddict 12-Nov-21
ki-ke 12-Nov-21
Bowbender 12-Nov-21
Starfire 12-Nov-21
cnelk 12-Nov-21
LUNG$HOT 12-Nov-21
T Mac 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
RT 12-Nov-21
Live2Hunt 12-Nov-21
LINK 12-Nov-21
hdaman 12-Nov-21
cnelk 12-Nov-21
Treeline 12-Nov-21
badbull 12-Nov-21
caribou77 12-Nov-21
Blood 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
BC173 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
cnelk 12-Nov-21
caribou77 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
cnelk 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
Sidekick 12-Nov-21
cnelk 12-Nov-21
KsRancher 12-Nov-21
Buffalo1 12-Nov-21
Corax_latrans 12-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 12-Nov-21
APauls 12-Nov-21
tradi-doerr 13-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 13-Nov-21
Corax_latrans 13-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 13-Nov-21
cnelk 13-Nov-21
Grey Ghost 13-Nov-21
RD 13-Nov-21
RD 13-Nov-21
pdk25 13-Nov-21
rallison 13-Nov-21
caribou77 02-Dec-21
timex 02-Dec-21
midwest 03-Dec-21
deerhunter72 03-Dec-21
sitO 03-Dec-21
Mike Ukrainetz 03-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-21
Beendare 03-Dec-21
Jack Whitmrie jr 03-Dec-21
From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
I killed this buck yesterday morning during my first sit in a stand I hung the day before. It was a 25 yard downhill shot. The buck was quartering away. My arrows are 410 grains traveling at 280 FPS with 100 grain Montec 3-blade fixed broad heads.

The shot was a complete pass-thru. In the next 2 posts I will show the entrance and exit wounds. I thought it would fun to hear your best guesses as to how far the buck went after the shot, and how long did he take to die? The answers may, or may not, surprise you.

I will post the answers later tonight.

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Here's the entrance wound.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Here's the exit wound. The arrow also sliced the off-side front leg.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
Sorry, I can't get the images to rotate.

Matt

From: BUCKeye
12-Nov-21
300 yards. 20 minutes

From: JL
12-Nov-21
Less than 15 yards and less than 20 seconds.

From: t-roy
12-Nov-21
Was this a guided hunt?….

12-Nov-21
Was it eating from a bait pile? If not it went 50 yards and was dead in five seconds.

From: Pyrannah
12-Nov-21
looks good to me

75 yds and 30 sec

From: Zim
12-Nov-21
less than 100 yards and died within 5 minutes

From: APauls
12-Nov-21
45 yards, 15 seconds, no peas inside the femoral.

From: LUNG$HOT
12-Nov-21
300 yards 1 hour to expire.

12-Nov-21
50 yards and dead on arrival.

From: smarba
12-Nov-21
He could have gotten woozy, tipped over without taking a step, dead in less than 30 seconds.

Or he could have made a death run, less than 100 yards, dead in less than 30 seconds.

From: Franklin
12-Nov-21
Looks like liver and 1 lung....with the leg hit he probably bolted. I`ll go 750 yard....2 hours.

Nice buck.

From: walleyes
12-Nov-21
64 yards and 3 minutes

From: spike78
12-Nov-21
Shot my doe this year with that exact same trajectory except for the entrance and exit were opposite. I hit heart, liver, 1 lung, and stomach. She ran 15-20 yards and lasted 15-20 seconds.

From: Bowhunter09
12-Nov-21
Less than 50 yds 30 seconds

From: PTArcher
12-Nov-21
70 yds; less than 1 minute

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Here's 2 more visual clues from inside the chest cavity. This is the entrance wound. As you can see, it slipped in-between the first and second ribs, missing the guts and liver.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Here's the exit, just behind the heart.

From: greg simon
12-Nov-21
Lots of variables to consider to be able to do better than a WAG. Did you get both lungs or just one? Did you hit the heart? These are the main two that would affect my guess. I also think the leg hit would cause him to bolt and cover more ground. Also what kind of cover was near by?...

Obviously an effective shot but probably more so if it would have been a few inches further forward.

I'll go with 300 yards traveled and took 45 minutes to expire.

That's a good looking buck. Congratulations to you for killing him!!!

Edit: The above pictures were not up when I made my guess. I guessed the heart was not hit so I went with further travelled and longer lived. Big question now is did you get both lungs?

From: air leak
12-Nov-21
It didn't go far, and it didn't take long.

From: StickFlicker
12-Nov-21
Congratulations. It looks like a great shot, but I am not a fan of the G5 Montec. G5 makes many great products, several of which I use. I just don't think the Montec is one of them. The animals typically travel further and leave very little blood trail in my experience. And don't get me started on sharpening them... Due to the erratic results when using them, I'll decline to guess.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
Greg, both lungs were deflated by the time I gutted him. The heart, liver and guts were not hit.

Matt

From: Dave B
12-Nov-21
I guess not far. You shot him with a COC head. He probably took a few hops, looked back and tipped over. So less than 10 yds and less than 10 seconds.

From: JCarrowthem
12-Nov-21
Iv see that very hit many times some went a long ways and some not. I'll say 118 yards and 3 1/2 min.

From: SIP
12-Nov-21
Big deer, small cut, i wouldnt think the lungs were devastated as it was a hard quarter. Gonna guess 250 yards and 1/2 hour. But it very well coulda been shorter and sooner. The title and purpose of post has me leaning towards not a short deal as most would guess.

From: Shug
12-Nov-21
Less than your elk..,too soon? too soon?

75 yards... 60 seconds to 110 seconds

From: Bowaddict
12-Nov-21
I too shot a nice mule deer buck yesterday morning. Not quite as much angle but took out both lungs and was surprised how far he got. Rutted up, mine made it 200yds and 45 seconds. With the harder angle I’m gonna say 250 and 3 minutes. We’re there doe with him and did he run off with them? I believe that’s what got mine to 200 yds. And he stopped after hit to look back at 75.

From: ki-ke
12-Nov-21
Shug, not everyone is 100% on Elk like you are. Be nice

From: Bowbender
12-Nov-21
~125 yards, down for the count in 30 seconds.

From: Starfire
12-Nov-21
70 yards, 40 seconds

From: cnelk
12-Nov-21
Was there any other deer with him?

From: LUNG$HOT
12-Nov-21
Love the concept of this thread. I’ve got a good “elk” How far how long from this year. I’ll start it after yours is revealed GG. ;-).

From: T Mac
12-Nov-21
320 yards and 4 minutes

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
Cnelk, there were 3 does with him.

From: RT
12-Nov-21
25 yards 15 seconds

From: Live2Hunt
12-Nov-21
Hard to really guess, too many variables. I've had arrow hit deer drop in there tracks from a heart shot and heart shot deer that didn't bleed for 60 yards and laid there dead. The looks of this hit, he may have not known he was shot (happened 2 times to me) as there is no bone breakage. I'd say 1 min and walked off 40 yards.

From: LINK
12-Nov-21
I’m going to say you barely clipped the entrance side lung and it stayed inflated for awhile. The buck went 400 yards and after a 90 seconds fell over. ;) Nice buck

From: hdaman
12-Nov-21
40 yards, 15 seconds

From: cnelk
12-Nov-21
45yds - 1min

From: Treeline
12-Nov-21
That is a solid cross both lungs hit. I would guess 80 yards at most and less than 2 minutes to die. Nothing lasts long without lungs…

From: badbull
12-Nov-21
80 yds. , 60 sec ( I am thinking that from your teaser statement regarding "might be surprised" the numbers could be much higher or possibly even way shorter)

12-Nov-21
I shot one like that last year it ran maybe 120 yards. Mine hit ribs though. So probably more shock.

12-Nov-21

Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
GG the last pic shows how the more we shot towards the front. The area above the spine is about 1/3 the size of the chest.

From: caribou77
12-Nov-21
Walked 10 yards. Dead in 12 seconds. Does kept him preoccupied.

12-Nov-21
I meant your last pic GG

From: Blood
12-Nov-21
Did you find the buck? We need more clues to know if he was recovered.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
Congrats, Shawn. That's a beauty, and a true trophy, especially with a selfbow.

Do you have any guesses to contribute to this thread?

Matt

12-Nov-21
Zero yds. 15 seconds

From: BC173
12-Nov-21
65 yards less than 10 sec.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
First, thank you to those who congratulated me.

After the hit, the buck bounded 7 yards, and stopped underneath an overhanging pine tree limb, offering me no follow up shot. I could see his head, but his body was obscured by the tree. He never took another step. His does stayed close, and I don’t think he felt much pain from the hit, so that may have contributed to the short distance he traveled.

Here’s the part that still baffles me. For 10 minutes he stood there looking around, and breathing with his mouth open. Then he laid down with a heavy groan, like an old man sitting down in a chair. For the next 40 minutes he laid there, with his head up, and I could hear his breathing become more labored. Then he tried to stand up, but only stumbled and went back down. 8 minutes later, his head went down and he took his last gurgled breath. So he died almost a full hour after I shot him!

When I saw my arrow disappear exactly where I was aiming, like most of you, I thought to myself “dead deer in seconds”. I’m still shocked he lasted so long. Mother Nature never fails to amaze me.

Thanks for playing along, gentlemen.

Matt

From: cnelk
12-Nov-21
What did the does do?

From: caribou77
12-Nov-21
He would have died faster had he ran. Standing still he wasn’t pumping blood.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
The does stayed close for most of the time he was down. Alerted, but still curious. One cautiously came back and actually sniffed my arrow that was stuck in the ground. When she finally decided to leave is when the buck tried to get up but couldn't.

Matt

From: cnelk
12-Nov-21
That’s why he didn’t go far.

You should’ve mentioned the does in the beginning

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
"You should’ve mentioned the does in the beginning"

But that would've gave away half of the challenge. And all the "dead in seconds" guesses would still be wrong. ;-)

Matt

From: Sidekick
12-Nov-21
I never cease to be amazed by what I learn on these forums. Never would've guessed that deer would've lived more than a few minutes after a double lung shot.

From: cnelk
12-Nov-21
You didn’t supply all of the info that transpired.

Maybe do that next time

From: KsRancher
12-Nov-21
Nice buck! Great shot. Late to the game on this. But I was going to guess 75yds and a couple minutes at most. It's amazing how some animals go down so fast and others go on forever. The last deer I shot was quartering to me hard. I aimed just inside upper leg joint. Hit right where I was aiming. Didn't get great penetration. Finally caught up to him 1.25 miles later and got another arrow in him. The first arrow just got to the heart. When I opened him up to see where 1st shot hit. I found the broadhead in his heart, but only about the front third of broadhead poked into it.

From: Buffalo1
12-Nov-21
Interesting experience. Nice buck- Congrats !!

12-Nov-21
Great to hear the stories of things that didn’t go as expected. “You really never know“ is a fantastic antidote to “There’s no effing way”.

I am inclined to agree that had he taken off hard, he would have bled out in a hurry… It just makes sense. Under Sympathetic response conditions, all of the blood flow is directed towards the vital organs, which would drive up the blood pressure in the lungs, which would increase the rate at which he bled out.

And I would say “good on you” for waiting him out. The whole thing really highlights the importance of the old advice to wait 45 minutes before you do anything. Yeah, sure if you hear him crash hard or see him go down, that’s different, but just think what might have happened if you had bumped him from that first bed. That has never worked out well for me. I haven’t lost any yet, but I have pushed my luck (by assuming too much) on at least three occasions… and I think it might be a good idea to stop doing that.

My brother had a somewhat similar experience a few years back when he shot a cow Elk high through both lungs, and she just basically didn’t react at all. She just stood there and got wobbly, losing control of a few sphincters in the process, but didn’t bleed out externally and didn’t run. When she finally walked off with the herd, she left no blood trail and he never saw her again.

Yeah, she might have lived, but I really don’t think so. A double lung seems to be pretty fatal.

Thank you for a challenging a conventional wisdom with a reality check.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Nov-21
I think what some hunters don't realize is puncturing a lung isn't like popping a balloon. Lungs can and do heal from minor punctures, kind of like using that Fix-a-Flat goop in a tire with a slow leak.

Matt

From: APauls
12-Nov-21
Firstly congrats on the buck!! Second, thanks for sharing an interesting experience.

As for the guessing, it was never going to be more than a guess. You could shoot three deer in the 100% identical spot and have three different death scenarios. There’s just too many variables involved. Because you said we’d be surprised I knew it was either going to be a quicker death than expected, or longer than expected. Guess it was the latter.

From: tradi-doerr
13-Nov-21
Congratulations on a great buck Matt! Great thread, interesting to read all the guesses. Like you said, these animals always amaze us.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Nov-21
"Thank you for a challenging a conventional wisdom with a reality check."

"Congratulations on a great buck Matt! Great thread, interesting to read all the guesses."

You're welcome. And thanks for your kind words, gentlemen. I enjoyed it , especially how definitive some of the wrong guesses were. I would have been one of those folks too, had I not witnessed the outcome with my own eyes.

And Cnelk, I'll be sure my next challenge meets with your approval before posting it. LOL.

Matt

13-Nov-21
By the way, GG - how was the blood trail leading to and around that tree where he held up?

Everything you posted would lead person to expect that you would’ve been able to hear the blood pouring out onto the ground… Except for the whole not dying for an hour part! ;)

But it looks like the arrow passed through several inches of brisket meat, which would certainly reduce the flow rate. I’m definitely surprised that there wasn’t more air flowing into the thorax from that entrance wound, though…

From: Grey Ghost
13-Nov-21
Corax,

There was only a few drops of blood in the 7 yards the buck traveled. Admittedly, I didn't spend much time searching, since I knew exactly where the buck went down. There also wasn't as much blood as I'd expect in the area that he laid down. When I gutted him, it appeared the vast majority of the buck's blood pooled in his chest cavity, which is consistent with the your "sympathetic response" theory.

I also think it's understated how a relatively painless hit can effect an animal's response after the shot. My arrow basically hit nothing but hide and lung tissue. With the speed and location that my arrow zipped thru him, I doubt he felt much more pain than slicing your finger with a razor blade. Had my arrow broken a rib or 2, hit his leg bone, or remained lodged in his body, I'm sure the outcome would have been completely different.

Matt

From: cnelk
13-Nov-21
"And Cnelk, I'll be sure my next challenge meets with your approval before posting it."

You'll probably still leave some key facts out

From: Grey Ghost
13-Nov-21
Cnelk,

You still don't get it. The whole point of this thread was to demonstrate you can't predict the results based solely on shot location, and I think the majority of the guesses prove that. A few guys picked up on my purpose, and my hat is off to them.

But thanks for your constructive critique, and your congratulations.

Matt

From: RD
13-Nov-21
I shot a whitetail doe just about the same and ended up shooting her again the next day so you never know.

From: RD
13-Nov-21
I shot a whitetail doe just about the same and ended up shooting her again the next day so you never know.

From: pdk25
13-Nov-21
Thanks for posting this, and it really makes one think. If I were to guess, it took a long time for the entrance side lung to collapse and probably was only damaged along the periphery. Not nearly as much bleeding In that scenario to fill up the chest cavity and collapsed along. A person or a deer can live a long time with one lung. Did you examine the actual damage to the lungs, or just note that they were collapsed? And you are right, things don't always turn out the way that they seem. I decimated on lung on a Cape Buffalo, and you would be amazed how far it went. Had a similar shot as yours on a cape Buffalo cow- and it only went around 50 yards and laid down. 20 minutes later I snuck up and put another in her at 30 because it was getting dusky out. Still had enough in her to make it to her feet and charge 15 yards toward me before collapsing into a small tree that she hit. Still took probably another 15 minutes for her to expire.

From: rallison
13-Nov-21
I told my son deer are kinda like people...some are weenies and some are tough sob's...kinda tongue in cheek.

But I shot a nice Wisconsin 8 point some years ago that flat out amazed me. He came in to my grunt call with ears laid back and hackles up...looked to be spoiling for a fight. I was in a tree stand, about 12 feet high, and shot him as he was walking through a flooded marsh, at 15 yards...in standing water a few inches deep.

Shot him with a 63lb Black Widow recurve, cedar arrows, and a SHARP 2 blade Zwickey Delta.

It was a double lung center punch, pass through,with my arrow intact buried in the ground. He busted straight ahead about 40 yards, stopped, looked around, and laid down on a raised spot of marsh grass, and acted like nothing was wrong. After about 10 to 20 seconds, he let out a loud, long cough...I'm thinking...he's done.

A few more seconds and 2 more of those long coughs...this was a new one for me!

Then...he stood back up and walked about 20 yards out of that marsh grass into thick red brush. I couldn't believe it!

I looked down into that standing water he ran through, saw my arrow sticking out of the ground, and the amount of blood in the water looked like I was chumming sharks! I was no kid at this time, tagged a LOT of deer, but this was a new one.

Finally, I climbed down and walked to where he laid down and found a couple blood clots the size of my forearm he'd hacked up, along with lots of blood on the ground. I was utterly mystified!

Trailing further I found him just a few yards in that red brush. Short trail, maybe 75 yards, and I'm guessing maybe 10 minutes from shot to his disappearing into the brush...maybe more, I really didn't time it.

I'd say HE was one of those tough sob's!

From: caribou77
02-Dec-21

From: timex
02-Dec-21
Impossible to guess every animal is different just like people some just have more heart ,desire or will to live than others. I litterly blew the heart out of a big buck with a 7mm mag at 50 yards & he ran 400 yards down the mountain with a softball size hole where his heart was.

From: midwest
03-Dec-21
Should have used an expandable. ;-)

Congrats on a beauty of a buck!

From: deerhunter72
03-Dec-21
I was late to the party and didn't get to play along, but I never could've guessed that outcome. Just goes to prove that you just never know. Seems hard to believe that he could live that long with both lungs collapsed, but I've seen other bucks defy belief.

Thanks for sharing! Great shot on a great buck, congratulations!

From: sitO
03-Dec-21
He made it all the way to the scene of the crash! Congrats, fine buck buddy

03-Dec-21
It’s because Montec are DULL broadheads. They are dull right out of the package. Don’t believe me? Go check. Every time I have a bowhunter come to camp with Montec heads they are dull. Now throw in cheap steel that dulls even more after just passing through the hide of an animal they really show how poor a head they are.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-21
I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist blaming the outcome on the broad head. LOL.

FYI, Mike, I've been using Montecs for 20-plus years, and they have never disappointed me. If I do my job well, they do theirs. People who complain about them being dull don't understand blade design and edge angles. With 60 degree edge angles, you will never get a Montec shaving sharp, and that's by design. They are designed to punch thru hide, bone and flesh, like a leather punch or an axe. That's also what makes them more durable than most broad heads.

Anyway, thanks for contributing to the thread.

Matt

From: Beendare
03-Dec-21
So one lunger then....they can live a long time on one lung.

He must not have made you...and it shows the advantage of a cut on contact head [Montec is borderline in that regard] they don't know they have been hit.

Most of the animals I shoot with a 2 blade don't know what happened, they typically take a few quick steps like yours did...and then take a look around, dying right there.

I think its a big advantage to using those COC heads vs the short chisel heads or the over the top mechs that get them running off like their tail is on fire.

>

03-Dec-21
The design of the Montec makes it a great broadhead. That is why several others have the similar design -VPA- Hell razors - Magnus SS snuffers to name a few. It wasn't the broadhead design at all, it's a mystery but he is dead!

  • Sitka Gear