Moultrie Products
School Shooting - charge the parents
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
APauls 02-Dec-21
HDE 02-Dec-21
scentman 02-Dec-21
smarba 02-Dec-21
[email protected] 02-Dec-21
DConcrete 02-Dec-21
scentman 02-Dec-21
70lbdraw 02-Dec-21
Buckeye 02-Dec-21
LBshooter 02-Dec-21
scentman 02-Dec-21
Woods Walker 02-Dec-21
TREESTANDWOLF 02-Dec-21
TGbow 02-Dec-21
cnelk 02-Dec-21
LBshooter 02-Dec-21
LBshooter 02-Dec-21
keepemsharp 02-Dec-21
Copperhead 02-Dec-21
Woods Walker 02-Dec-21
JL 02-Dec-21
wv_bowhunter 02-Dec-21
Woods Walker 02-Dec-21
Owl 02-Dec-21
drycreek 02-Dec-21
BOHNTR 02-Dec-21
Jaquomo 02-Dec-21
Woods Walker 02-Dec-21
Woods Walker 02-Dec-21
timex 02-Dec-21
LBshooter 02-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
timex 03-Dec-21
Kevin Dill 03-Dec-21
Bou'bound 03-Dec-21
TREESTANDWOLF 03-Dec-21
cnelk 03-Dec-21
Woods Walker 03-Dec-21
Boreal 03-Dec-21
Kevin Dill 03-Dec-21
greg simon 03-Dec-21
JL 03-Dec-21
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-21
LINK 03-Dec-21
Beav 03-Dec-21
Rocky D 03-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-21
DanaC 03-Dec-21
deerhunter72 03-Dec-21
DanaC 03-Dec-21
deerhunter72 03-Dec-21
Rocky D 03-Dec-21
Knife2sharp 03-Dec-21
Alaska at heart 03-Dec-21
Rocky D 03-Dec-21
Woods Walker 03-Dec-21
HDE 03-Dec-21
Ambush 03-Dec-21
LINK 03-Dec-21
deerhunter72 03-Dec-21
Jaquomo 03-Dec-21
70lbdraw 03-Dec-21
yooper89 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
DanaC 03-Dec-21
Reggiezpop 03-Dec-21
BIGRICH 03-Dec-21
Rocky D 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
scentman 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
LBshooter 03-Dec-21
ryanrc 03-Dec-21
LBshooter 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
ryanrc 03-Dec-21
Aspen Ghost 03-Dec-21
JL 03-Dec-21
Beendare 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 03-Dec-21
JL 03-Dec-21
[email protected] 04-Dec-21
Eagle_eye_Andy 04-Dec-21
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-21
JL 04-Dec-21
Rgiesey 04-Dec-21
JL 04-Dec-21
APauls 04-Dec-21
Goelk 04-Dec-21
tinecounter 04-Dec-21
[email protected] 04-Dec-21
Jaquomo 04-Dec-21
les596 04-Dec-21
JL 04-Dec-21
[email protected] 04-Dec-21
sasquatch 04-Dec-21
APauls 04-Dec-21
Bowman 18-Jan-22
Missouribreaks 18-Jan-22
Huntiam 18-Jan-22
8point 18-Jan-22
Dale06 18-Jan-22
Rocky D 18-Jan-22
APauls 18-Jan-22
From: APauls
02-Dec-21
In the last school shooting in Michigan sounds like they are debating charging the parents. Kids shouldn't be able to access firearms. On one hand - kids are 15 years old - they're not stupid. If they want to they'll prob find a way to get them. Then again, on the other hand, I kind of like a parent having some responsibility for a terrible situation like this. Maybe it would lend to a parent potentially caring earlier on in the process? I really haven't given the situation much thought, but figured the debate would be interesting and many on here are much smarter than myself.

From: HDE
02-Dec-21
Here is why this is a bad idea in the long sad history of bad ideas: It sets the precedent for parents to pay the price indefinitely for an offspring's poor choices. A 35 year robs a bank and shoots someone. The parents should have done a better job of instilling good moral character into the 35 year old as a youth.

Making the the parents culpable is taking the accountability away from the real offender. This is an idiotic fool's errand...

From: scentman
02-Dec-21
Just started a thread on same subject.

From: smarba
02-Dec-21
Tend to agree with HDE.

02-Dec-21
I had a full gun rack in my room at a younger age

From: DConcrete
02-Dec-21
So I do have one question about the thought that if the parents could be held liable, that it would stop or slow down something like this.

How does this make a parent care more earlier on?

The sad truth is, they either care or they don’t. They either take on the role of parent, or they don’t. No amount of personal loss will make them begin to care. If that were true, every dead beat would pay their child support on time rather that getting garnished.

Every dead beat would do what it takes so they don’t end up in court. Ultimately, it’s a fantasy land.

I do love how people talk about keeping guns out of the wrong hands. Isn’t a locked door, or, not your vehicle or not your home, aren’t you, the law breaker, breaking the law already to access a place that isn’t yours to begin with?

If my home gets broken into, and a gun isn’t in a safe, why should I be held liable? Why not the person who broke in?

From: scentman
02-Dec-21
A 15 yr old with mental issues is the parents responsibility... a 35 yr old parents are not responsible for him even if he lives in their basement.

From: 70lbdraw
02-Dec-21
But they won't allow parents to patrol the halls of the high school, in an effort to stop the shootings to begin with.

From: Buckeye
02-Dec-21
When I was 12 my dad deemed me responsible enough to carry a 22 pistol to run my own trapline. and a 20 g single shot to give the squirrel and pheasant a hard time. Never once did it cross my mind as to taking a firearm to school. There is probably a lot of factors at play as to the cause of these horrible shootings but holding the parents responsible for a 15 year olds actions don't sound right to me, They are old enought o know better. Unless maybe the kid in question got the guns from the parent because it wasn't locked up properly. Then I could understand a judge giving them some time, along with the kid.

From: LBshooter
02-Dec-21
Well if your going down the path of charging the parents then we have to go across the board. If the parent is negligent then some punishment maybe in order. If the child stole the gun then I think not. If your going to charge the parents for the crime of the child then there will be a ton of inner city parents going to jail for their gang banging kid who sprays bullets indiscriminately and kills innocent. Let's be consistent.

From: scentman
02-Dec-21
Was there security? If the shooter was being closely watched by school officials why not frisk him upon entry? School itself could be held liable... big time!

From: Woods Walker
02-Dec-21
"If your going to charge the parents for the crime of the child then there will be a ton of inner city parents going to jail for their gang banging kid who sprays bullets indiscriminately and kills innocent. Let's be consistent."

NO WAY! Only if they're white......

Why do you think AOL had the shooter's face planted all over their page today?

02-Dec-21
Every single gun owner has the moral obligation to secure all guns and ammo period.

There are zero excuses not to.

My heart aches for the families who lost their kids.

From: TGbow
02-Dec-21
Lou, thats the medias strategy..

I dont know how many times we pulled up in the school parking lot with guns in the trucks. I believe in gun safety but charging the parents is a bad idea. Leftist always blame everything but the real source

From: cnelk
02-Dec-21
“ Leftist always blame everything but the real source”

No - Leftist always blame everything but themselves

Fixed it for ya

From: LBshooter
02-Dec-21
Guns were never "secured when I was a kid in the 70's and think about the 40'-60's, never a worry. It's the filth that has invaded our society and the lack of love for your fellow man. The cause is something we can't ban, so they want to lame something. My uncle took me hunting and I'd walk around with a 410 by myself and nobody blinked an eye. Let's blame the real problem, media and politicians and schools.

From: LBshooter
02-Dec-21
Well if your going down the path of charging the parents then we have to go across the board. If the parent is negligent then some punishment maybe in order. If the child stole the gun then I think not. If your going to charge the parents for the crime of the child then there will be a ton of inner city parents going to jail for their gang banging kid who sprays bullets indiscriminately and kills innocent. Let's be consistent.

From: keepemsharp
02-Dec-21
Got my first 22 at eight, always had firearms in the house, my son was raised in a house with numerous firearms, didn't know what locking them up was. We displayed them in a glass front case in the living room. The kid needed some parental guidance or would never consider doing what he did. Sounds like there was some warnings from the school beforehand.

From: Copperhead
02-Dec-21
My stand on this is, every household should have a firearm and everyone in that house should know how to use it safely and for the purposes intended. Teach them young about love and respect for your fellow man and especially about the deadliness of firearms.

From: Woods Walker
02-Dec-21
^^^ THIS!!! Well said sir!

From: JL
02-Dec-21
Reminiscing......way back when I was 16 and got my drivers license in the mid-70's down in Daytona, it was common for kids who hunted after school to bring their guns to school (or fishing poles). After graduation, we had gun racks in the back of the truck (if you had one) and your uncased gun would be in that. That's how we rolled and no one bothered your stuff for the most part. Those were simple and fun times back then.....Freebird!

From: wv_bowhunter
02-Dec-21
Copperhead X2!

From: Woods Walker
02-Dec-21
I grew up in suburban New Jersey in the 50's/60's, and I was in my high school rifle club. On the days that we'd shoot at the local range after school, we'd bring our .22's to school and the principal would keep them in his office for us. We'd also say the Pledge Of Allegiance and the Lord's prayer every morning....in a PUBLIC school! Those days are L O N G gone!

Maybe that's why we have so many problems like this now.

From: Owl
02-Dec-21
I cannot think of a worse idea than ascribing legal liability to the parents of a criminal. As some others have pointed out, you could deep fry chicken with the grease on that leftist slippery slope. We need more personal accountability and higher expectations of our youth. Not less. Besides, how many of us were "raised right" only to be holy terrors for a good portion of our teen years?

From: drycreek
02-Dec-21
I’m not going to keep all my guns in a safe. Some of them are in there, but you can bet I can lay my hands on a pistol or two almost anywhere in my house in thirty seconds. I raised my kids around guns, but if I had raised an idiot that might not have been enough. I think the biggest reason that kids do this stuff is because they didn’t have that ass torn up enough when they were younger. Don’t misunderstand, I loved my daddy, but he wasn’t afraid to whip that ass. I was deathly afraid of a good whipping, so much so that each time I had an evil thought in my head, fear took over and made me do right. Only four whippings in my twenty years of knowing my daddy and I still remember each one, why I got it, and how bad it HURT ! Guess what, a rough old farmers hand or a leather belt hurts like hell, but bruises only the ego.

From: BOHNTR
02-Dec-21
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society or someone else is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his/her actions.“

From: Jaquomo
02-Dec-21
^^^ Yep. And Alex Baldwin didn't pull the trigger. "The gun" shot those two unfortunate people, not him.

From: Woods Walker
02-Dec-21
drycreek: Sounds like we had the same father! I only had one whipping, and the other times he just looked at me and said....."I'm really disappointed in you." THAT hurt far worse than the belt!

From: Woods Walker
02-Dec-21

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Baldwin is lying. The revolver he used had a transfer bar safety, like Ruger's have. The only way that pistol could fire is if it were cocked and the trigger pulled.

From: timex
02-Dec-21
The ass whooping generation is now witnessing the time out generation's children = the no tec devices generation's complete absence of respect for themselves others & authority. The world is becoming a sad place.

From: LBshooter
02-Dec-21
A good ass whipping is the teacher when the teacher isn't present.

Discipline is love, not abuse. Most parents have forgotten that it's their job to teach, not to be the best friend crap.

Now, I'm not a fan of Alex Baldwin, but there is a chance that the transfer bar was disabled or messed up from constant disassembly and abuse of stage guns. The FBI I'm sure will check that.

03-Dec-21
I have no idea if Baldwin is lying or truly believes he didn't pull the trigger...but he pulled the trigger. Now, actors point guns at people and pull the trigger all the time during filming.

Live ammo on a set is a millions to one oddity. That and a modified or broken transfer bar all coming together when the gun is pointed at someone is a trillions? to one oddity. Chances both happened are silly. He says he let the hammer down and it went off. He pulled the trigger whether he remembers it that way or not. If this was a tactic he and his legal team came up with they should have had an expert consult with them on how single actions with transfer bars work.

It will be interesting if the facts get revealed. Either foul play or unimaginable incompetence/negligence lead to a live round on set in an actors hand.

From: timex
03-Dec-21
My father was an old school jarhead marine named Hoss... You did as you were told how you were told & when you were told with respect & manners OR ELSE. No exceptions & there was no grey area. I was not the hard ass my father was when raising my boys but had very little troubles with them.

Not sure how Baldwin relates but something fishy going on there (((SOMEONE))) replaced blanks with wadcutters & that someone should be charged with murder. Did he pull the trigger yes. Did he know the gun hadive ammo ??? And just like so many aspects in modern society his defense plan is...this is my story & I'm sticking to it till the end. Completely made up or not.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Dec-21
With respect to the culpability of parents when their child commits a crime....

I believe each situation rides on its own merits. If there is obvious parental misbehavior, neglect, or other things which enable or contribute to the child's criminal act, then I favor consequences for parents. We can't legislate good parenting into society, but I think there should be consequences....in some cases...for bad parenting when it ends in crimes of violence and death. But I stress that every case needs to be reviewed and we shouldn't automatically place parents in legal jeopardy for the bad acts of their offspring.

From: Bou'bound
03-Dec-21
we need the community forum back so we don't have mass shooting with firearms posts landing in the equipment section of this website

03-Dec-21
Every single gun owner has the moral obligation to secure all guns and ammo period.

There are zero excuses not to.

My heart aches for the families who lost their kids.

From: cnelk
03-Dec-21

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
Typical leftist

From: Woods Walker
03-Dec-21
Yup..... " Dindu' nuffin' "

From: Boreal
03-Dec-21
The government and the schools want to raise our kids in place of their parents. Charge them.

From: Kevin Dill
03-Dec-21
I suppose another way of looking at this is from the perspective of injuries caused by pets. Obviously children are not pets, but read on....

If your dog goes next door and nips the UPS guy, you might be cited or perhaps held civilly liable. If your dog goes next door and mauls a toddler to death, you're definitely going to be part of an investigation and likely held criminally liable for the results of your dog's behavior. We are responsible for what is ours (to a point), and any irresponsibility or negligence (by us) contributing to damage or injury is very likely to result in criminal charges.

From: greg simon
03-Dec-21
I agree with what Kevin Dill is saying. Parents actions, or lack of, should be looked into but by someone with some common sense. There in lies the rub!!!

From: JL
03-Dec-21

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo

JL's Link

Well.......if they searched the lockers, they might find more.

""Impromptu metal detector finds kids with 21 weapons at Brooklyn school day after student gun bust

By Selim Algar December 2, 2021 4:40pm Updated

City officials placed a single metal detector in a Brooklyn school building the day after a student was busted with a loaded gun — and turned up 21 weapons in just one day, law-enforcement sources said.

The Department of Education installed the scanner in the complex housing the Urban Assembly School for Law and Justice and two other schools in Downtown Brooklyn Thursday morning after the 17-year-old was nabbed there allegedly with a 9mm pistol and more than $30,000 in cash.

The school does not normally have a scanner in place. And Thursday’s surprise installation netted a varied arsenal — nine knives, seven cans of pepper spray, four stun guns and a pair of brass knuckles, sources said.

The 17-year-old had been busted a day earlier after showing up late for school at around noon and entering an office to log his attendance. A school staffer spotted what she thought was a pistol in his backpack and alerted school safety agents.

The student was detained until NYPD units arrived and allegedly discovered the gun and the cash in his possession.

There are a total of 1,000 kids in the Adams Street building, according to the DOE. New York Post front cover for Dec. 3, 2021.

“Weapons of any kind have absolutely no place in our schools, and our outstanding school safety agents safely recovered these items during screenings, ensuring that all students and staff are safe,” said DOE spokesperson Nathaniel Styer.

“All protocols were followed, and school staff are following up with students regarding appropriate interventions.”

Greg Floyd, president of the school safety agents union, said he wasn’t surprised by Thursday’s weapons haul.

“Once again,” he said. “I ask the question: How many weapons are in our schools? We just don’t know. This is the tip of the iceberg.”

Floyd reiterated his opposition to calls for the removal of safety agents and metal detectors from schools. He has also said a lack of hiring has left schools understaffed with safety agents.

A building source said that an increasing number of students are bringing in weapons as a means of protection.

“A lot of these kids bring this stuff for self-defense,” she said. “It’s a shame that it’s come to that. But it’s the truth. Sometimes you see who is carrying in something or gets caught with something and you can’t believe it. They’re scared.”

While some city schools have detectors year round, others are only subject to random or temporary scanning.

Mayor de Blasio chose to increase unannounced scanning earlier this year after a rash of violent incidents and gun seizures in and around city schools.""

03-Dec-21
My parents gave my leniency in a lot of things. But, earlier in life, they’d beat my tail like a step child had I slightly deviated from their instructions.

I used to get whipped daily by my mother then nearly daily by my dad. They used it as a tool. A very good and influential one at that. My dad was a better discipline guy. His rules never wavered. Consistent. Never disciplined while angry. Etc….

But, both parents did well. Very well. Because later, when faced with life decisions I’d always think about what my parents would do if I got caught doing something off limits. And, I didn’t do it. Out of fear. Fear is a great motivator. It no doubt saved my life.

School shootings I have no idea why they happen. But, I’m not interested in the shooters mindset. Just hang them from the light pole. Like you should do an adult that did the same. It’ll take care of itself for the most part.

From: LINK
03-Dec-21
I had no less than 5 guns on my wall in high school. If my truck had gotten searched at school there was likely a gun under the seat. This was after the Colombine shooting. When my son if of driving age he will have the key code to the gun safe.

On its face this doesn’t seam a bad idea but it is. I have 4 kids and I believe a certain amount of personality is in a child at birth and can’t be beaten out. That said I fully support trying . Now if a parent recognizes their kid is deranged they should lock up the guns and throw away the key. I think so much of this comes from degradation of culture. 40-50 years ago faith and 2 parent homes were the norm. Kids need stability and purpose. You take that away and start handing out Ritalin like it’s bubble gum and you have a recipe for disaster.

From: Beav
03-Dec-21
It is certainly a different time than when I grew up! We had one gym so boys basketball would either have practice right after school or at 6:00. The weeks we had late practice there was 5-6 of us that would go pheasant, grouse, and duck hunting right after school. Before some of us were old enough to drive we just brought our shotguns into school and put them in our lockers to save time. No one thought anything of it including our parents. Of course growing up I remember my friend's mom catching us egging the grumpy old neighbors house and she whipped all three of us with a wooden spoon. My parents commended her for it! Glad I grew up when I did!

From: Rocky D
03-Dec-21
Ok, I can give parents some responsibility but how many you have not kept all your guns and ammo under lock and key. I know that I didn’t. My kids have been around guns there entire life.

Never had a problem and I know many others in the same boat! We don’t want give law enforcement or worse yet , misguided prosecutors to much opportunity for over reach.

It’s sad and each case is different and should be viewed as such! How much are community leaders, politicians, and the media is responsible for these types of situations?

The current messaging is absolutely horrible and one minute a twenty year old can’t by a gun or drink but they can drive and have sex. They get all the benefits of being an adult without any of the responsibility!

When I was a kid my parents started treating you like you were grown at around fourteen and you were disciplined as such . I was part of the be seen but not heard generation and parents had teeth!

This is an ultra complicated problem dwithout any simple solutions! One thing that I do know is that the more they try to make it safe the less safe we become.

Hold these no bail cites accountable for acts like Waukesha before we go to holding parents responsible for what the kids do!

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-21
In high school, I took a film-making class. Back then, all video was shot on rolls of film. We learned how to shoot, splice, narrate, add titles and captions, etc... The class was split up into teams of 5. The semester long project was for each team to produce a short film that was then shown to the entire school body, who voted for the best film.

My team chose to do a film that included a mock gun fight, complete with blank bullets. We used mine and my Father's guns, and we did the scene outdoors on school property. I distinctly remember carrying my guns thru the halls of the school. We ended winning the film contest, and nobody ever asked any questions about the guns.

That memory almost seems unfathomable now. Times have certainly changed.

Matt

From: DanaC
03-Dec-21
Ever read "Starship Troopers" ? In that future, if a kid commits a crime, he and his parent are punished. The author argues that 'juvenile delinquent' is meaningless, it's the parents who are delinquent in straightening out bad behavior in their child.

Also makes a convincing argument that punishment *should be* physically painful. (I didn't get time-outs, I got the belt. Taught me that bad actions had bad consequences!)

(PS forget the movie, garbage superficial adaptation.)

From: deerhunter72
03-Dec-21
Many sided topic to consider. You could be the best parent on earth and still have a kid do something completely unexpected. And you could also be a horrible parent and end up with terrific kids. That's where I'd have trouble charging parents in crimes like this. A teenager can make his own decisions, whether we like the decisions or not. These decisions usually will be influenced by parenting but not always. A dog that bites the neighbor is the owners responsibility because the dog can't think for itself. I could see charging a parent if they had a kid that had documented mental issues. A child like that should never have access to a firearm in the house.

I was raised with guns and had free access to them at anytime. I was also raised with discipline and with the knowledge of what those guns were capable of doing. I've raised my kids the same way, first and foremost is to treat EVERY gun as if it's loaded. I have to say, some of these crimes have made me question a bit the idea of having loaded guns free at hand because I am responsible for the guns.

From: DanaC
03-Dec-21
Greg, what happens when your well-raised kids invite their friends over? Are all those raised equally well? Liability up the gazoo!

From: deerhunter72
03-Dec-21
Dana, most of the guns are in a safe. The ones at my bedside were put up when the kids had sleepovers. Those days have passed for us.

From: Rocky D
03-Dec-21
Ok, I can give parents some responsibility but how many you have not kept all your guns and ammo under lock and key. I know that I didn’t. My kids have been around guns there entire life.

Never had a problem and I know many others in the same boat! We don’t want give law enforcement or worse yet , misguided prosecutors to much opportunity for over reach.

It’s sad and each case is different and should be viewed as such! How much are community leaders, politicians, and the media is responsible for these types of situations?

The current messaging is absolutely horrible and one minute a twenty year old can’t by a gun or drink but they can drive and have sex. They get all the benefits of being an adult without any of the responsibility!

When I was a kid my parents started treating you like you were grown at around fourteen and you were disciplined as such . I was part of the be seen but not heard generation and parents had teeth!

This is an ultra complicated problem dwithout any simple solutions! One thing that I do know is that the more they try to make it safe the less safe we become.

Hold these no bail cites accountable for acts like Waukesha before we go to holding parents responsible for what the kids do!

From: Knife2sharp
03-Dec-21
Then you'd have to charge the kid as a minor, if you're also charging the parents, IMO.

03-Dec-21
I live across the mitten from this horrible tragedy in Oxford.....my wife grew up in a nearby town that played them in sports contests. Local news has repeately aired news releases by the sheriff whose office is doing the investigation. The father of the 15 year old bought the 9mm handgun just days before the shooting and took his son out to teach him to shoot. The youth had some issues in school.....parents were called in on Monday....the day prior to the chaos. Tuesday he was also sent to the office....at 1pm he comes out of the bathroom with the 9mm from home and starts shooting random students in the hallway.

Some pertinent qustions: Is the 15 year old solely to blame, as the prosecutor has publicly stated he will be charged as an adult? Was it violent video games, movies, online trash, bullying, mental illness.....all the above or even something else? What role does upbringing play? I've read that family political views (right wing) has been brought into the discussion.

If the father had not purchased the handgun, would that have prevented or just delayed this tragic event from happening? If the handgun was stored away from the 15 year olds access, would those 4 dead students and 7 injured be healthy and whole today? Do you blame teachers or administrators for not recognizing this powderkeg ready to blow? What lengths are LEO to play in schools as an ongoing presence? What if a situation escalates to the point where a teen is shot and killed by LEO? What kind of media backlash will that bring about? There are certainly more questions, but that is a start. Going back 20, 30, 40 or more years to your upbringing and the norms of soceity in the 60's and 70's bears little resemblance to the kids of today. One reason I was glad to conclude my long career in public education.

From: Rocky D
03-Dec-21
“ Going back 20, 30, 40 or more years to your upbringing and the norms of soceity in the 60's and 70's bears little resemblance to the kids of today. One reason I was glad to conclude my long career in public education.”

You have to know where you came from to know where you are going. Educators are a major part of the problem! I don’t need some teacher with a lame ass teaching degree tell me what kids need to learn in school! The whole CRT fiasco is enough to prove that point. Just had a nephew get a job as a teacher and he says that it’s the easiest job he ever had!

We keep changing curriculum but test scores keep going down hill!

We as a society are going to have to address our dysfunctional aspects and go back to tried and true processes versus I think that we can do better…

From: Woods Walker
03-Dec-21
I'm afraid Rocky, that it may be too late. In 20 years, who would even have any idea of what we'd even be going "back" too? By then CRT would be gospel, and most of it would be in spanish!

From: HDE
03-Dec-21
"A 15 yr old with mental issues is the parents responsibility... a 35 yr old parents are not responsible for him even if he lives in their basement."

Here is why this is incorrect. The only way a parent (or guardian) can prevent a 15 yr old with mental problems from doing something harmful to society is to lock them up in an institution or chained up in their basement.

That same 15 yr old 20 years later still has the same mental cognitive status.

Imagine if a 15 yr with mental problems raped a 13 yr old. Is the dad now going to have to register as a sex offender?

No. And the parents aren't culpable for this either. Chances are, they didn't raise the kid to do something like this...

From: Ambush
03-Dec-21
Quote WV Mountaineer: "I used to get whipped daily by my mother then nearly daily by my dad."

Hopefully you're just using hyperbole or your memory is bad. If not, that is just as screwed up, and maybe more so, as never having been disciplined.

From: LINK
03-Dec-21
“ Just had a nephew get a job as a teacher and he says that it’s the easiest job he ever had!”

Many schools just want to throw a Chrome book in a kids hands and call it education. Thank God rural America is 20 years behind.

From: deerhunter72
03-Dec-21
Looks like the prosecutor has filed involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of the teen accused in Michigan. Be interesting to see what happens here. What a nightmare for everyone.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-21
The Sig was his "Christmas present" according to the mom. Mom texted the kid that morning, telling him, "dont do it". They are so screwed.

From: 70lbdraw
03-Dec-21
"we need the community forum back so we don't have mass shooting with firearms posts landing in the equipment section of this website"

That's part of the problem. People get their feelings hurt when others speak their minds. Thus, someone always has to piss-n-moan about a subject that can easily be ignored by the individual. Final result, censorship. Call it what you want, but removing the ability to discuss an important topic with like-minded people, doesn't help solve anything. And it sure as he'll doesn't contribute to the potential of solving a problem. COMMUNICATION is one of the, if not the, most important, yet least utilized skill that we as humans possess. It's ironic that certain people want to disrupt all lines of communication at all costs. Just my .02 cents

From: yooper89
03-Dec-21

yooper89's Link
Jaq- just saw this

03-Dec-21
This kid is responsible for what he did but seems there were plenty of fails by people around him leading up to it.

From: DanaC
03-Dec-21
""The Sig was his "Christmas present" according to the mom.""

Our kid has 'issues', hey, let's buy him a gun for Christmas! The whole family should probably be institutionalized. Profanity fails me...

From: Reggiezpop
03-Dec-21
An article said he was caught by a teacher researching ammo prices on his phone in class. The teacher told the parents. The mom texted him “ I’m not mad, you have to learn to not get caught lol.” Lock her up with him...

From: BIGRICH
03-Dec-21
The parents have been charged with involuntary manslaughter .

From: Rocky D
03-Dec-21
I think that the school should have some responsibility. He should have been escorted off campus and a discussion with a professional counselor and law enforcement with the comments that he was making.

03-Dec-21
I'm surprised they didn't do a locker and backpack search as well considering the red flag.

From: scentman
03-Dec-21
Parents are on the run... law enforcement is actively searching for the dysfunctional couple that bought a firearm for their troubled son.

03-Dec-21
Running to save your own skin while your kid is going through the process of facing the consequences for murder is quite a way to put a cherry on top of some awful parenting.

From: LBshooter
03-Dec-21
Appearently michigans legislature was going to pass a law that would make prosecution if parents for crimes a child does. The bill was never passed and the DA is running on emotion and anger and therefore getting ahead of her skis. Emotion and angry and rightfully so are carrying the day, but the law does not allow for the parents to be prosecuted. Will be interesting to see what happens. One thing for sure is that they will be in the poor house for the rest of their lives.

From: ryanrc
03-Dec-21
There should be some accountability for a 15 year old having access to your weapon. All my guns are under lock and key and I am the only one who knows where the key is kept/hidden. It is beyond irresponsible for that kid to have access to that gun. Especially if he was exhibiting warning signs. The owner of that gun in that situation bears some responsibility in my opinion. The mother maybe not if the gun wasn't hers. But honestly, it sounds like the kid had serious issues and they were in no way helping address them.

From: LBshooter
03-Dec-21
This kid is mentally disturbed and his lawyer will plead not guilty due to insanity. The school knew he was messed up and did nothing other than call the parents. It's vary sad and yet it will all be blamed on guns and forgotten about in a few weeks. On to the next case, the media can only feed on a story u til the sizzle stops. Look at the Wisconsin attack with the car, hardly hear of it. I have seen any liberal calling for banning cars?

03-Dec-21
That kid shouldn't have had access to a gun but plenty of teens have access to guns without issue. Don't forget to lock up the car keys, the medicine cabinet, the gas can for the mower, the kitchen knives, etc.

Proper storage is a good thing but I trust my teen son way more than many adults. Unstable/evil people are the issue. It appears there were at least 3 of them in this situation.

From: ryanrc
03-Dec-21
Glunt, I agree in personal accountability. But, providing a gu. To someone that was disturbed should have some repercussions. That's the whole point of background checks.

From: Aspen Ghost
03-Dec-21
I'm not sure how they charge the shooter as a mentally competent adult but then also charge the parents. If he's a mentally competent adult then how can they be responsible for his behavior? If they are responsible then how can he be charged as a mentally competent adult?

From: JL
03-Dec-21
It looks like the early details are changing daily on this mess. If true what the mom's tweets are showing....and the fact it appears they cut-n-run for a period of time is not a good look. I'll be curious to see what the parents full role was.

From: Beendare
03-Dec-21
More to the story in Michigan; The mom texted the kid something about how she should have taught him how not to get caught. Kids parents brought into school the day before for disturbing stuff teachers found and administrators required the parents to get him counseling- nope, he went back to school.

More to the story with these parents....

>

03-Dec-21
If the kid was 21, he would have passed a background check and could buy a handgun.

I'm not letting the parents off the hook. Sounds like they may have bought it for him, not just dads gun he stole. Amazing failure all around.

From: JL
03-Dec-21
^....SamS.....I noticed poster Dannyboi is no longer around. The above writing style looks like his. Did you come back? No big deal on my end....just curious.

04-Dec-21
Locally, Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa who killed 10 people including an officer at a local grocery store in Boulder has been deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial. His family saw big red flags but didn't do the right thing.

04-Dec-21
Two things...Let God back in public schools. AND either allow teachers and administrators to be trained and armed to defend our innocent kids or hire people that will. Otherwise this evil will continue. No more complicated than that. More laws won’t stop evil

04-Dec-21
What exactly does anyone expect the school to do? We’ve legislated out any form of discipline in earlier grades. We’ve stopped disciplining at home. Do you truly expect the school to stand accountable? In this day the only option they had was getting the parents involved. It’s not like suspending him or kicking him out would have stopped him from coming onto the grounds.

Everyone says let’s fix this. Except they suggest fixing it with things that wouldn’t/won’t fix it.

This kid was messed up. The parents were bad parents. And in a society as free as ours, people always push the limits. This is part of it. People do evil things when they are in a evil state of mind.

Hang him from the light pole. Move on. A few more of those and the occurrence of these things will nearly disappear. And, certainly not be a part of everyday life as they seem to have become.

From: JL
04-Dec-21
I just seen a news story the parents were caught hiding in a warehouse about a mile from the Canadian border. The story said they pulled $4,000 from an ATM machine...big mistake if ya don't want to be caught.

From: Rgiesey
04-Dec-21
I didn’t initially agree with Adamwhen he first posted. These parents were negligent and maybe complicit so charges are warranted. It seems like school should be also charged. Sheriff is saying they weren’t notified and would have handled it and prevented this from even happening. No one even searched for the gun.

From: JL
04-Dec-21
I'm watching the arraignment now on the tube. Although I think the parents do have some legal culpability in this....I'm getting the feeling the local prosecutor rushed to charge and may have overcharged or mis-charged. Think the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

From: APauls
04-Dec-21
Personally I think it all comes down to the individual situation.

In this case it seems more and more that parents were involved in a bad way.

From: Goelk
04-Dec-21
Clearly the System failed for the indiviual who was clearly sick. Total failure all around. The parents, and the school Being a parent of a child who was at Columbine who was shot at but was missed. He 39 now and always calls me everytime when there a school shooting. It just never ends he says. Why!

From: tinecounter
04-Dec-21
From what I've seen/heard school was unaware of shooter's gun access or early Christmas "gift." Was "Does he have a gun or access to guns?" asked or answered during meeting with parents? His backpack wasn't searched and student was allowed to remain in school. Appears uncooperative parents inhibited more proactive intervention efforts by school. Charges filed by prosecution seem warranted, but, more to come, I'm sure. JMO

04-Dec-21
Guns were much more accessible when I was in school. Like many here, about every guy had one in the gun rack of his truck or in the trunk of his car in the school parking lot. I rode my bike to school a few times with my 20 gauge so I could hunt with my buddy who lives close the school. That was 6th grade. Teacher would put it in her closet till school was out.

Whatever the root cause is to school shootings increasing is, it isn't the access to guns.

From: Jaquomo
04-Dec-21
The shooter posted stuff on social media about his gun, including a pic. Unless he was a total recluse, some other students saw this. And most certainly other students knew he had serious mental and emotional issues. Yet nobody said anything.

This is a problem in almost all school shootings. Nobody wants to be a "snitch", yet there are virtually always danger signals broadcast prior to the shooting. This has to change, because school shootings won't magically stop.

From: les596
04-Dec-21
We as a messed up society have allowed so many of these evil people that exist today to daily fantasize of every crazy, illegal, immoral thing because of the computer games that exist today. The wokes took away Elmer Fudds guns, Yosemite Sams, because they deemed them too violent. But what about killing people, blowing up everything and stealing cars and chases on violent computer games. I confess to not having knowledge of all the violence portrayed on these, but I can assure you they feed the warped mentality of those involved in these crimes. They have desentitized so many to death and murder that I fear that all this is just previews of coming attractions. Our leaders have no concept of the real problems and it is not the guns but degradation of our moral compass. We need to change this somehow.

From: JL
04-Dec-21
^....a bit of truth there IMO.

04-Dec-21

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
I have a teen son so I know all about what they are exposed to on COD, GTA, Rainbow 6, Fortnite, etc.

He's big into guns, bows, hunting and fishing. So far, so good but I never drop my guard. He and his buddy helped me flock 3 dozen decoy heads today.

From: sasquatch
04-Dec-21
Too slippery of a slip.

While I agree parents need a good awakening I don’t think this is the answer.

This is the result of babying today’s generations!!! People had families at 15 yrs of age not long ago, now days they on parents insurance at 26 yrs of age!!!

Also, how can we charge parents for the crime of their kids while also charging parents for abuse if they issue a good a** whipping???

From: APauls
04-Dec-21
Personally I think it all comes down to the individual situation.

In this case it seems more and more that parents were involved in a bad way.

From: Bowman
18-Jan-22
Sad story. I think that only the lack of security at the school or its dishonest work can be considered guilty here. During periods of prosperity of criminal events, security in each school should be mandatory. Today, schools pay a lot of attention to writing assignments and little attention to educational lessons. I would prefer the second option, since writing texts is very tiring. Sometimes it seems to me that if it were not for the site https://www.grabmyessay.com/samples/category/anthropology with examples of texts in various subjects, I would have been expelled from school long ago.

18-Jan-22
We should all be liable for our own actions. If others, including parents, played a role, they should also be liable. It should never be automatic guilt on the parents.

From: Huntiam
18-Jan-22
could argue both sides I guess

From: 8point
18-Jan-22
Blame the parents for the child, Blame gun manufacturers for the firearms, Blame President Trump for the riot. Same old, same old

From: Dale06
18-Jan-22
You’re right 8point. Blame it one someone else, nobody is accountable. I believe these mass murderers/school shooters ought to be held accountable, via capital punishment. Give them a trial, and appeal if they want and if found guilty, execute. And not over a period of 10-20 years. Get it done in months. And move on with a civilized society.

From: Rocky D
18-Jan-22
The problem is once you establish precedence then you can have the corrupt establishment pick and choose where they want to apply the precedence!

From: APauls
18-Jan-22
It's funny seeing people interpret the situation as "blame someone else nobody is accountable." I interpreted it as the exact opposite, where not only was the perp to blame but parents are finally being taken to task for their role in it and there is MORE accountability. Interesting how different people take it different ways.

  • Sitka Gear