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Because of a PM exchange where I misunderstood someone’s position slightly and because of events over the past week and this morning, I feel compelled to express something to you all that I had expressed in that PM exchange.

I believe that the vaccine offers benefits that are statistically sound. I do not believe that the vaccines are perfect, an all-encompassing panacea. I believe that getting vaccinated is prudent. I do not believe that pharmaceutical companies or government is without self interest. I do not believe that people should be forced to be vaccinated. I would hope that you would choose to get vaccinated.

For no other reason than the fact that I believe that there’s statistical benefit to you and I would miss the posts of many of you.

And Bowsite and Bow Hunting would be diminished.

“No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

Several of my bow hunting buddies are LEOs. That has extended my circle of friends in the LEO community.

Last week one of those guys passed away from Covid. Healthy, fit Reserve Military as well as being a Police Officer. He chose to not get vaccinated. He got Covid. It wasn’t a severe case. He felt as though he was recovering and then his wife found him dead. His service was last night.

Another friend, another police officer in the same department and circle of friends came down with Covid this weekend. He had also chosen to not be vaccinated. He was found dead this morning.

Our circle of friends is shrinking.

If you are healthy, you have a small risk of mortality with Covid. Natural immunity affords you protection, possibly better protection than the vaccine, for future infections... if you survive.

Because of some genetics or something, some of our friends have not survived to gain that natural immunity. Statistically, their odds would have been better had they been vaccinated.

I’m not demanding that anyone do anything. I am not berating anyone. I am not attacking anyone. I am respectfully requesting that you talk to your doctor, look at statistics from credible sources and consider your choices.

My opinion is merely my opinion. I do not believe that I have all of the answers. I do not believe that I derive physical benefit from you being vaccinated. The reservoir for the virus is too large. My benefit would be to continue enjoying your interactions here.

I wish you all and yours well.

That heartfelt expression was contained in my PM exchange and is my main point, why I felt compelled to post something.

Tough morning.

Matt

You did a very good job speaking about the vax in a positive and factual way. It works. It is safe.

So with that I feel it should be a choice and not a mandate.

MirageTC - As I said in my post, I am not mandating or demanding anything. I am not berating anyone. Reinforced by recent events, I wanted to express that I wish you all well.

It is the season.

And respectfully request that you consider inquiring with a doctor you trust and check the statistics from credible sources to do your own evaluation of your options with current information.

My wife has a relative that can not be vaccinated because she has an allergic reaction to the carrier. She did not get vaccinated.

I am aware that people exist who would have an adverse reaction.

Anecdotally, I do not personally know of anyone who has been vaccinated and had a reaction other than some soreness and malaise. That does not mean that I claim that there’s zero risk. In my understanding, there’s reduced risk.

YMMV

I personally do not know any other than the sore arm or usual stuff people experience with any vaccine, and I run in a pretty wide and varied circle in my daily life.

My reasons for getting the vaccine outnumbered my reasons for not. Therefore I chose to get vaccinated. I have lost a few unvaccinated friends and acquaintances to Covid and have been very lucky to have not lost any vaccinated friends and acquaintances. The math works for me.

My 85 year old dad who has smoked all his life had both shots, then the booster, then got covid. I know a number of folks who said worst flu they ever had. Some said no respiratory issues at all, just a constant headache and body aches so everyone's experience seems unique.

I do wish folks would move on from blaming unvaccinated. What is weird is no one seems to blame china or do anything about the fact is man made, but blaming an shaming their own neighbor apparently will help?

Rand Paul has it right, this virus has a 1% mortality, and you can be sure someone is working on the next one with a 50% mortality. We are doing nothing about that. In the beginning, it was clear so many critical items like common drugs come from China and 3rd world countries, yet we have done nothing and learned nothing to geographically move manufacturing. We cant find people to work at freaking Mcdonalds.

My Dad had the regeneron anti-body treatment immediately upon testing positive, but he had to demand it. The doctor never proposed or recommended it. He recovered really quick. Instead of focusing on treatment - the world is stuck in a vaccination strategy headed no where. When will we move on to treatment? I firmly believe that is how to solve this.

I've heard that statement quite a bit since the Vax came out. The problem is that when you tell someone that you have honestly and carefully chosen not to take it, you immediately hear the disappointment and criticism from them. It's been too politicized to believe anything about it.

One thing is guaranteed. If you live long enough...something is going to kill you. Maybe covid...or maybe a Capitol officer with an itchy trigger finger. Nobody gets out unscathed!

I had a change of position this past summer. I had originally decided I would not get the vaccine. Not because I thought it was unsafe or there was some governmental conspiracy happening. I'm youngish, eat clean, healthy, active, prideful, and hate being told what to do, so I chose not to get it. I'm glad I had a change of position. I unknowingly brought covid to thanksgiving at my parents house, despite having 2 doses of Pfizer. My Dad is severely immunocomprimised and had recieved his booster 2 weeks prior. We had zero precautions in place at their house, because everyone had tested negative the day prior. He didn't catch it. Nor did either of my in-laws, both of whom are in their 70's and received boosters recently. We will never be able to prove if it was their boosters, my vaccine that helped to lessen the risk of transmission or some combination of both, but the result was great nonetheless. That anecdotal evidence is proof enough for me. Whatever anyone else chooses to do is fine by me, but given those circumstances, I'm grateful I made the choice to get it.

so sorry for your loss. i pray for their families and yours. i also pray that those who for whatever reason have chosen not to get vaccinated have a change of heart. if they don't, i pray for their safety.

My condolences for those who have had it effect their family and friends.

The response to Covid has effected my circle of friends and family much more than the virus.

“ I've heard that statement quite a bit since the Vax came out. The problem is that when you tell someone that you have honestly and carefully chosen not to take it, you immediately hear the disappointment and criticism from them. It's been too politicized to believe anything about it.”

Well... I’m not laying any disappointment or criticism on you. So you won’t hear it from me.

Do I believe that I’ve made a rational decision and that it makes sense for me and my family? Yes.

Do I believe that mathematically it would make sense for others? Sure. I believe that the risk assessment is fairly clear. I suspect that the guys who just succumbed to Covid would have been better off being vaccinated ...But it’s not up to me.

And I would not want it to be up to me.

It’s like some twisted version of the “Trolley Problem”

The math is pretty straightforward. Less people dying is better than more people. Especially if you can think of people like commodities. But people are going to die either way.

Those who want the power of mandates? You want to pull the lever to save more lives? And then bear the responsibility for those on the sidetrack like Cazador’s friend?

That’s why I believe that my reasoning is sound and still won’t bust your chops.

I wish you and others nothing but the best and hope to see you on the other side. Odds of that are pretty good either way.

I appreciate the condolences and will pass them on.

Best to all of you.

I just saw this and I'm so sorry for your loss. Please pass along my condolences.

Best,

Mike

Should we be calling these various shots "Vaccines" since they seem to lack long term efficacy like traditional vaccines?

From a financial standpoint, wouldn't pharmaceutical companies benefit from a regular regimen of booster shots than a "one and done" solution?

My condolences for anyone grieving the loss of a loved one...………...

Perhaps I'm a lemming or sheeple that follows the crowd but has some lingering questions in my mind:)

I wish I could write like you. Your words are exactly how I feel.

For me, my “ circle” is vaccinated and yet, we are all unsure. As you said, there’s some genetic thing or something that takes loved ones away with this virus.

Thank you for writing this. Surely, this is how I feel.

This stuff really sucks

FWIW...I was watching on the news yesterday I think it was....and I recall it may have been (Dr) Rand Paul saying that as viruses mutate, they usually get weaker. In this case....so much so it may end up being similar to the common cold/flu.

Trublu, I agree it has been weaponized, but that worked because of great ignorance.

It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. - Patrick Henry

"God" has nothing to do with if you die or not from Covid. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, etc have all died from this and will continue to. It doesn't matter what or who you believe in.

I'm just glad most of us have a choice to be vaxed or not. Hopefully your choice is the right one.

Craig

My point is we simply choose what to believe based on our biases. Anti-Vax folks will want to believe the virus will weaken most likely, while those of us vaccinated will believe it offers the best protection, most likely.

One of my wife's closest friends is an ICU nurse here in the KC area at one of our largest hospitals, and has said the same...just about everyone in ICU is someone that is unvaccinated and zero fatalities with those vaccinated. I understand this is a limited sample size and we should not draw conclusions from that alone. Thanks.

If you do your research, work with your doctor, make the best decision for you, and skip the vaccine, you get slammed.

If you do your research, work with your doctor, make the best decision for you, and get the vaccine, you get slammed by the other side.

There is so much anecdotal and miss-information, that many fear getting or not getting the shots.

Liken it to smoking and it's link to cancer. Pretty much an accepted thing. However I know multiple people who smoked packs a day for many years and lived to 90-100 years old and were VERY healthy.

Human biology and immunity is amazingly complex. There are ALWAYS variations.

There is also MUCH you can't say accurately. For example, a person who didn't get COVID, then got the shot, then died. would they have caught COVID and died anyway? IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY

Link,

Care to state your qualifications that allow you to draw this conclusion, other than your limited sample size that runs counter to what others have stated on this thread?

Like they do when you get lung cancer? After all, it's the individuals fault for smoking...right? Or perhaps you should be denied hospital service if you crash your dirt bike. After all, you were being careless...right?

HFW, we have had several fully vaccinated individuals die, in our local Hospital (and we are not a large Metro area... 250 bed Hospital). That's not to say they didn't have some type of Co-morbidity, but the vaccine is certainly no guarantee against death from Covid.

The really interesting part, is how the local news buried the Story, within 24 hours, on the last vaccinated guy that expired in ICU.

i dont think anyone should be turned away...but last i knew lung cancer or dirt bike accidents werent contagious.

I was very interested in the immunology aspect of my Nuclear Medicine Training/ Tuition. Learned how to maximize immunity at an early age. So, opted to never take a flu shot, but rather GET the flu. Covid was no different for me, I assumed I would eventually get it (I did), and life would go on.

I'm definitely not an "anti-vaxxer" (my kids got all their "Puppy Shots"). But, I am very pro natural immunity (and I have always had a strong immune system).

That's MY reasoning. Take it however you like.

Shhhh...You can no longer debate or question what most consider common sense. We'll have to lock you up if you keep spreading "MISINFORMATION"!

If you're confused as to what constitutes "misinformation", just ask a bowlib...they adopted that term quickly. Suddenly they think they're right 100% of the time.

My opinion, teach on-line only if you are concerned about contracting Covid and let those of us willing to do it in person have a choice about mask usage. I have the shots and booster, that’s enough precaution, at least for me.

Sorry for making fun of the hysteria over wearing masks. Whether they work or not, they've just never been that big of a deal for me. I wear them were they are required, and don't where they are not. There are far bigger issues to worry about, IMO.

Matt

Prior to the vaccine coming out, I was in the camp of "I'll get it, but I don't want to be a guinea pig and I'll wait to get it after a while." Because of my wife and son, I got on an overflow list, and was vaccinated in the first round that was available to the general public where I live.

First of all, my wife "asked" me to get it. We generally let each other get away with a LOT, but after 15 years of marriage, if it's something serious enough that we "ask" the other, in all seriousness, then we know it's serious to that spouse, and we do it. It's worked for us :) My wife works in healthcare, she sees on average 20-25 patients a day, many of them have been Covid positive. When she asked me to get the vaccine, she let me know how important it was to her.

Secondly, my son had a seizure disorder. He was not able to get all of his normal childhood vaccinations (this was WAY before Covid). I can't remember all the reasons, and what he could be or couldn't be vaccinated for. But I remember he wasn't vaccinated for Whooping cough, and he had some significant health issues. Sicknesses were dangerous to him. We had multiple month-long hospital stays due to pneumonia that developed from regular sickness that other kids would bounce back from in days. In fact, complications from pneumonia was listed as his official cause of death.

He had a great babysitter at one time that truly truly loved (loves) him. And then she started to babysit another child who's parents were anti-vaxxers and that child was not vaccinated for any of those normal childhood vaccinations (again, this was WAY before Covid). We made the difficult decision to end that relationship, worried about exposure. And sure enough, that other child got whooping cough at a later date. That could have shortened my sons life even further had he gotten that.

So, my son convinced me to get it too. I thought "If this vaccine has any chance whatsoever of lowering ANY risk that I could transmit this to a person (like my son) who is compromised in any way, and keeps from killing that person. Then I should do it."

That was my thinking. If me getting vaccinated helps any other person in any little way, then it's worth getting. And I have family that are high risk that I see a couple times a week. A cousin that has had a liver transplant and takes anti-rejection meds that lower his immunity. An aunt who has had recent health problems and is 80 years old. My father and mother are 70 and statistically more likely to have complications, etc.

My .02. For what's worth

What if your under 40 and have a bmi of less than 21%? I have “rolled the dice” knowing, that with a fair amount of heart disease in my family, I’m just as likely to die of the jab. My brothers 6 and ten years older and significantly heavier both had the China virus before the shot was out. Other than lost taste or smell neither knew they were sick. My 92 grandmother and aunts have decided they are better off without it. To this point they haven’t had it, that they know of. Knowing all that I still can’t figure out why I would need the jab. Now a month ago I lost smell, still don’t have it. So especially with my new natural immunity, what is the upside of the jab for me? I certainly understand why some elderly or those like Bake think it’s in their best interest. With nearly everyone I know having all ready had the virus, why is the shot still needed?

I really question our entire approach. If this is a global problem (and it is) than vaccinating one country does nothing if other places remain where the virus can continue to mutate and spread to get around whatever benefit the vaccine had to offer. We appear to be spinning our wheels... and that is not simply anti-science heresy.

Aside from the obvious concerns (mRNA design, gov't coercion, etc.) I have a real issue with signing up for a LIFETIME of these shots. And the misleading way that fact is being withheld. It's NOT just two weeks to flatten the curve anymore. Maybe it never was....

I think we can all agree that covid is NEVER going away. And that the vaccine as it exists now is short-lived at best. The double shot is effective (depending on the ever-changing definition of effective) for what.... 6 months, maybe 8? A "booster" is now required. But who are they kidding??? The booster is the same exact vaccine formula. So just be honest, the booster is not gonna last either, and the TRUTH is that if you rely on this vaccine you are signing up for an annual shot. And the way this vax process is being forced and tracked, once you get on that ride they might not ever let you off. And if we manipulate our body's natural ability to react to a virus year after year after year, we might just wreck it's ability to do so on its own. And forgive me but yeah, I am more than a little hesitant to take that risk.

The sucky part.... we don’t know, what we don’t know. Unfortunately

Yes, they are. It's not shocking when you also consider that the bulk of COVID related deaths come from unvaccinated individuals. Also remember that in 2020 we were essentially locked down and we've reopened in 2021.

That was my thinking. If me getting vaccinated helps any other person in any little way, then it's worth getting

That's my logic too, Bake. It's also where acquiring "natural immunity" through infection fails as a strategy for managing the virus. By its very nature, that strategy requires you to spread the virus and requires you to perpetuate infections. The data is clear that establishing immunity via vaccination is a much safer and more effective approach than relying on people getting infected.

So especially with my new natural immunity, what is the upside of the jab for me? I certainly understand why some elderly or those like Bake think it’s in their best interest. With nearly everyone I know having all ready had the virus, why is the shot still needed?

If you just had COVID, I'm not saying you need the shot but I do think it's prudent to get it at some point down the line. It will boost immunity. What is the downside of getting the jab? Even if "nearly everyone I know" has had the virus, that's not everyone and I would assume you're also around people you don't know.

I started not to post on this thread. Because I’m the guy Rick had a pm exchange with. We are great friends. He’s like a brother to me and I’ve never met him. It doesn’t stop either of our families to send the other things. Hunting things for Ricks kids and some really cool things and Maple syrup!!!! From Rick’s kids. Yep, we are family.

And, family tries to look out for each other. Which is what got Rick to pm me discussing how he was free choice but, he requested I give the vax shot another consideration. He was unaware that I have previously had Covid. I’m guessing my intent to keep things into perspective had misled him.

For the record, nearly all my family has been vaccinated or had the virus. About a 60/40 split on vax/unvaxed. I’m not anti vax. In no way shape or form. But, according to unbiased science, I don’t need the vaccine at this point.

That’s my refusal. That’s my whole point. Anyone who’s in my camp is being labeled by many as ignorant of reality, selfish, etc….. By people who do so with no regard to anyone else’s situation or reasoning. It’s beyond stupid. It’s arrogant and it something the security a computer screen allows. Because no one talks to another man like the Covid police do, in person. It ain’t happening. And, everyone knows it.

Anyways, it’s a choice and will forever remain that way. Politicizing this has forced lines in the sand. From both sides. The problem is there are a bunch of camps on both sides. Reason why the shot is a good idea and reasons why some haven’t gotten the shot. But, the truth remains that if everyone got the vaccine, this isn’t going away. For reason that bowsniper touched on and, the reality that these vaccines aren’t stopping the spread of the virus.

That’s reality. That’s the science I’ve been reading. That’s my hypothesis. What I do affects no one but me. That goes for everyone of us. Talk with your family. To the people you love. Get their opinion on how you having or not having the vaccine will affect them.

I’ve watched peoples families torn apart over this virus. Grandparents who haven’t seen their Grandkids and, vice versa for over years now? Why? Because there appears to be no grey area concerning this. You are either a good person or not. Defined solely on whether you’ve gotten a “vaccine”. SMH.

I do not catch every post here. I bounce in and out multitasking at the same time. I missed something and misunderstood something in some of his posts.

So I sent him a PM.

And expressed my thoughts directly without recriminations, attitude and haranguing despite my misunderstanding his position. And I expressed that my (incorrectly) different viewpoint was driven by well wishes.

I think highly of Justin and many others here. If someone would have suggested to me years ago that I would consider people that I’ve never met in person and only interacted with over the internet and on the phone to be friends, I would have laughed. But I do.

So I thought it was worthwhile to post something about the situation in spite of my inclination to leave the Covid threads alone. I had expressed my opinion, respectfully, and didn’t want to continue beating a dead horse.

But I wanted to take a moment, as we are in the season, to extend my well wishes and explain that any request that you look at statistics and speak with a doctor you trust, getting the best information you can to make your decisions is driven only by my well wishes for you.

And you have those well wishes regardless of whether you come to a different conclusion than I do. And that extends beyond Christmas.

Undoubtedly, my opinions and desire to express them are reinforced by the recent cluster of deaths around me and the resulting reflection.

That reflection has also reinforced one of my personal philosophies. “Choose who you want to be.”

Justin touched on the politicization, arrogance and attitude that seems to be facilitated by a computer keyboard as opposed to face to face encounters.

My buddies and I all bust each other’s balls with regularity and I’m also married, so I can take it. I’m certainly not sensitive or delicate, but that’s almost all face to face. And we all attempt to deliver that with humor and in a colorful and creative fashion. Extra points if you’re capable of making everyone laugh at themselves.

I aspire to that here as well and welcome that coming in my direction too.

And to those who hold different opinions and strongly disagree with me... those who believe that I’m wrong, cite false information, wear tinfoil hats, am a keyboard warrior, couldn’t reason my way out of wet tissue, that I’m a simple sheep, a rube for the powers that be...

Meh.

I wish you and yours the best. Hope to see you posting well into the future. Have a great safe Christmas and New Year. Short bloodtrails.

Tin foil hat crap…again…and again…and again…canceled…again

Just say condolences to orionsbrother and move on

Matt

I appreciate the heartfelt thoughts from all, and I am encouraged by the number of folks who believe in the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, understand the hesitancy of people who have gained immunity through infection to get vaccinated now, and empathize with those who have lost friends and family to this disease.

Let's go Brandon!

I can't recall a time when it was more difficult to sift through "information" to find out where the truth lay than in this current pandemic. With regard to vaccination and disease transmission here are the key points; yes, a fully vaccinated person can still get infected and initially have a viral load that makes them infectious. Unlike unvaccinated individuals (absent a robust immune response (natural immunity) that clears the virus and reduces viral load) vaccinated individuals see a steady decrease in their viral load with many dropping to levels considered non-infectious within a few days.

None of the above should be misconstrued as an endorsement of vaccine mandates; from day 1 I have never been in favor of that and have advised all to weigh the risks versus the rewards and consult with a trusted physician. The choice to vaccinate or not for this disease should always reside solely in that camp.

Link attached, hope this helps....

so in sum, you miss quoted me and weren't factual with your portrayal, no surprise there. par of the course for the right.

Excited. But I didn’t post anything about an encounter that ended with the buck walking, no shot and me being jacked up.

Took one yesterday.

I'm 69, with scarring in my lungs from being enveloped in a cloud of ammonia gas in a freak farming mishap at age 17. I got the 2 dose Moderna last March, and was going to get the booster when I contracted covid prior to Thanksgiving. I was lucky! I came off isolation last Saturday and my taste and smell has returned a couple days ago.

I credit the vaccine for getting me through with no serious complications...I still have the cough, tire easy, but returned to my part time retirement job and goalie coaching for a high school hockey team.

Even then, I monitor my temp and blood oxygen levels, and will do so until the cough clears up. I'll also get the booster when I'm cleared to do so.

This stuff is no joke, it's for real! That said, I'm against government mandates and respect personal choice.

I'm a bagpiper, and have lost a lot of "lung power" over this. Where I used to blow "30 inches of water" on a chanter reed gauge, I now fight to hit 24". In speaking with other pipers, I can plan on up to 6+ months to regain that power.

Freedom of choice...I made mine, y'all make yours.