Sitka Gear
Dead deer mystery
Mule Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Jaquomo 10-Dec-21
DiRTY MiKE 10-Dec-21
timex 10-Dec-21
sticksender 10-Dec-21
sitO 10-Dec-21
RT 10-Dec-21
Jaquomo 10-Dec-21
KsRancher 10-Dec-21
[email protected] 10-Dec-21
Corax_latrans 10-Dec-21
[email protected] 10-Dec-21
orionsbrother 10-Dec-21
Jaquomo 10-Dec-21
midwest 10-Dec-21
Muleysareking 10-Dec-21
Treeline 10-Dec-21
Bou'bound 10-Dec-21
MarkU 10-Dec-21
sitO 10-Dec-21
Jaquomo 10-Dec-21
JL 10-Dec-21
SIP 10-Dec-21
wilhille 10-Dec-21
wilhille 10-Dec-21
Marty 10-Dec-21
LBshooter 10-Dec-21
DConcrete 11-Dec-21
woodguy65 11-Dec-21
Bou'bound 11-Dec-21
KsRancher 11-Dec-21
lv2bohunt 11-Dec-21
Old School 11-Dec-21
TonyBear 11-Dec-21
Whatthefoc 11-Dec-21
DiRTY MiKE 11-Dec-21
Whatthefoc 11-Dec-21
[email protected] 11-Dec-21
Jaquomo 11-Dec-21
Charlie Rehor 11-Dec-21
scentman 11-Dec-21
Jaquomo 11-Dec-21
Ron Niziolek 11-Dec-21
Corax_latrans 11-Dec-21
Marty 11-Dec-21
Al Dente Laptop 12-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 12-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 12-Dec-21
[email protected] 12-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 12-Dec-21
Jaquomo 12-Dec-21
Ambush 12-Dec-21
wkochevar 12-Dec-21
cnelk 12-Dec-21
smarba 12-Dec-21
Rock 12-Dec-21
[email protected] 12-Dec-21
StickFlicker 12-Dec-21
Thornton 15-Dec-21
Jaquomo 15-Dec-21
Ambush 15-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 15-Dec-21
RT 15-Dec-21
Corax_latrans 15-Dec-21
scentman 15-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 15-Dec-21
Bowfreak 15-Dec-21
Corax_latrans 15-Dec-21
lineman21 15-Dec-21
[email protected] 15-Dec-21
Thornton 15-Dec-21
Grey Ghost 16-Dec-21
Ambush 16-Dec-21
Ermine 16-Dec-21
Jaquomo 16-Dec-21
Coyote 65 23-Dec-21
From: Jaquomo
10-Dec-21
Yesterday my friend was hunting arrowheads on his ranch in N. CO just south of the WY border when he came upon a freshly dead muley buck and doe. They were lying about 30 feet apart and not yet stiff and cold. He looked them all over and could find no evidence of injury. No sign of any struggle. Both were very healthy looking. The doe was fat, and the 2.5 year old buck looked normal for a post-rut buck.

He called me because he wanted to salvage the meat, and I told him to call CPW immediately. CPW responded and after looking at the carcasses inside and out, have no answer. No bullet holes, no sign of trauma. The doe's final poop had a little blood in it, which is the only clue. They said by the healthy condition it wasn't CWD, but took lymph nodes and meat samples anyway.

Even so, for two to die simultaneously in the same spot from CWD or any other disease is virtually impossible odds. There hasn't been any lightning in the area for a couple months. Their conclusion (with a shrug) is that it is a mystery. His ranch is pretty remote, at the end of a long gravel road, and the deer were about 1/4 mile from anything, in a random yucca-grass pasture.

Anyone ever seen this before? (No, not a spaceship or aliens - I'll preempt that inevitable post....)

10-Dec-21
Did they check the arteries for peas?

From: timex
10-Dec-21
Lightning ? Any recent storms

10-Dec-21

From: sticksender
10-Dec-21
Good one Dirty Mike!

From: sitO
10-Dec-21
The Clinton's?

From: RT
10-Dec-21
Without carefully skinning them out to look for small caliber holes it's tough to tell.

From: Jaquomo
10-Dec-21
The CPW biologist really studied them thoroughly, did a neceopsy. This is an open-country foothills ranch in the middle of nowhere where someone would really have to expend some effort to reach, and then find the deer in the dark, on foot, then shoot them and leave them lay. And get in and out without triggering a security camera on the remote gravel road coming in. Lots easier places to poach very visible deer lose to roads in this part of the county.

Timex, that would make sense except we're in a winter drought and havent had any lightning for a couple months. There weren't even any clouds for a week prior to this.

From: KsRancher
10-Dec-21
Guessing they happen to eat something that did them in.

10-Dec-21
If they run the toxicology maybe it will yield something.

10-Dec-21
I do think I would want to see the toxicology reports before I ate anything.

But then, maybe they heard that Lou was coming for them and they died of sheer terror?

10-Dec-21
Any Japanese Yew shrubs in the area? Toxic to elk and pronghorn and maybe deer also.

10-Dec-21
I couldn’t remember that it was Japanese yew. I remember seeing an article about that several years ago. Paul came through. I was scratching my head.

Have no idea if that’s a possibility in that area.

My other theory is that those deer had some history with Hillary.

From: Jaquomo
10-Dec-21
Single string, I immediately thought poaching until I thought about it. They died in the night, over a couple rises, out in remote open yucca foothill country four miles from a public road, in an area with low deer density, where they didn't pass any cameras on the only long gravel road in, after passing many miles of great poaching places where they can spotlight from the road and take off if headlights appear. It doesn't make sense. I'll report back after he gets the tox report.

From: midwest
10-Dec-21
Covid for sure.

10-Dec-21
In 2004 over 300 elk in Wy died from eating lichens they had no immunity for. They were elk that apparently had never been in that habitat before and it did them in. This may be something similar. Since I am too simple to attach a link you can google it. ...Mike

From: Treeline
10-Dec-21
I was thinking the same thing Muleysareking. I remember that happening In Wyoming. Think something similar happened in NM.

From: Bou'bound
10-Dec-21
Lyme disease

From: MarkU
10-Dec-21
Lime disease.

Too many gin and tonics at the annual Christmas party.

From: sitO
10-Dec-21
Blood in stool sounds like some kind of poisoning to me.

From: Jaquomo
10-Dec-21
Some sort of poisoning, buck hanging with the doe until she dies, then he croaks too. Make as much sense as any other theory.

From: JL
10-Dec-21
Could the buck have been chasing the doe for a long time and wore themselves out?

From: SIP
10-Dec-21
A real Romeo and Doeliet situation

From: wilhille
10-Dec-21

wilhille's Link
Blue green algae?? NM had a hundred die pretty close together

From: wilhille
10-Dec-21
After further thought, probably not the right time of year.

No other ideas.

From: Marty
10-Dec-21
Had a few cows chewing on a old car battery they found in a old dump ground 30 years ago that died of lead poisoning. Took forever to find where they had found it as we had never dumped anything in the pasture! Maybe something like that?

From: LBshooter
10-Dec-21
JL x2, chased and chased, caught, had their thing and then both to worn out and expired.

From: DConcrete
11-Dec-21
I’m voting omicron too.

From: woodguy65
11-Dec-21
Agree with poison theory - Had to of ingested something that poisoned them.

From: Bou'bound
11-Dec-21
Classic murdeer suicide case

From: KsRancher
11-Dec-21
Marty. Did you find them dead? I have had some get into lead from old batteries. I had some just die, some go blind and then they just walk/run circles until they die from exhaustion. It's horrible to see.

From: lv2bohunt
11-Dec-21
Can deer get nitrogen poisoning like cattle can in drought conditions? Not sure if this can happen in winter months though.

From: Old School
11-Dec-21
I had a similar situation here in MO but it was just a doe. I gutted her to see if there were any internal issues and all organs looked fine and there were no small caliber bullet holes. Equally as odd is that I came back the next week and the whole deer was gone - like it had been airlifted out. Ground not disturbed and no hair or anything on the ground or brush. This was on private land almost dead center of 160 heavily wooded acres. Very odd. Only thing I could figure was some kind of poison caused the death but I never could figure out what came and removed her from the scene - I wondered if a mountain lion would do that??? That’s the only thing I could come up with.

From: TonyBear
11-Dec-21
Alien abduction then they dumped the carcasses

From: Whatthefoc
11-Dec-21
Hey Dirty Mike - the peas in arteries theory makes absolutely no sense. Mule deer will not eat peas at a bait. !!! - whatthefoc

11-Dec-21
IDK, I read it on the Bowsite. Must be true.

From: Whatthefoc
11-Dec-21
Beware of trolls.

11-Dec-21
Sounds like lightning despite no storm a necropsy can tell (us Vets are trained to detect lightning for livestock insurance claims)

From: Jaquomo
11-Dec-21
4nolz, lightning would make the most sense except I'm not aware of lightning that can arise from clear blue sky and clear sky at night.

The CPW folks only looked at the entrails, the inside of the body cavity, and an exam of the outside to look for bullet holes or puncture wounds (this is lion country), and found none.

11-Dec-21
10 years ago we found two whitetail bucks dead about 10 yards apart. Same scenario, no wounds any where. Darndest thing, called in the DNR officer and he took pictures but had no explanation.

From: scentman
11-Dec-21
Some time ago a friend from works son came across a dead deer no signs of shot or anything... he did not notice a hot line under deer and tried rolling it over... my friend was a volunteer fireman first on the scene.

From: Jaquomo
11-Dec-21
Thanks, Charlie. Interesting to learn someone else discovered something similar.

From: Ron Niziolek
11-Dec-21
Last spring a friend had 3 horses die in 24 hours. This is on a ranch where horses and cattle have been raised for 50+ years with no issues ever. It was studied by a vet and noxious weed expert. No cause was ever found.

11-Dec-21
Damn, Scentman…. That’s horrible.

From: Marty
11-Dec-21
Yep, found them dead and a vet found part of the battery in their stomach contents.

12-Dec-21
Could be EHD, we've been hit hard with it here in NY. Once bitten by the midge, the deer is dead within 3-10 days. At least the biologist took samples for testing.

From: Grey Ghost
12-Dec-21
I have a neighbor who had first hand experience with the never explained cattle mutilations that occurred in Colorado back in the mid-70s. He said the cow's carcasses were completely drained of blood, and organs were removed with surgical-like precision. No tracks of humans or predators were found around the mutilation sites. Perhaps the strangest thing was the coyotes and other scavengers wouldn't touch the mutilated carcasses.

Things that make you go "hmmm......?"

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
12-Dec-21
In this case, I'm guessing it was a poisoning. Perhaps someone dumped some used antifreeze into the deer's water source. I've read that only a few tablespoons will kill a deer sized animal.

Matt

12-Dec-21
Regardless of cause for both to die within feet of each other is strange even lead battery and antifreeze isn't instant they would likely die at different times and apart

From: Grey Ghost
12-Dec-21
If both deer were poisoned at the same time, and the doe was hot when she died first, it's plausible that the buck stuck around until he died too. The rut was still on when this happened, after all. I'm still seeing rutting activity around my place.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
12-Dec-21
No EHD here. Matt, that's my theory too. The water source is a spring that comes out of the ground way back in the foothills on their property and flows downstream through a narrow canyon. There are only a couple neighboring ranches within many miles, and they are very responsible stewards. This is a super remote part of CO right on the WY border. No chance of antifreeeze contamination. We now think they may have found something toxic in some old dump on one of the other big ranches around, made their way to John's place, the doe died first with the buck tending her. She had a bloody stool when she expired. The buck had no sign of anything wrong.

The rancher where I deer hunt on the plains had a mutilated bull on his place back then with the same M.O. you describe, when the mutilations were taking place out there. Never did solve that riddle either.

From: Ambush
12-Dec-21
Fairly fast acting poison sounds the likely culprit. Are there any small mining claims from years ago in the area. Old stored explosives' leach or cyanide leach? Homestead, trapper's, or miners dump site?

Strange you mention the cattle mutilations from the '70's. I was living in Canmore Alberta then and we had a spate of it. There was a FSR that ran through some remote country and had cattle grazing tenures along it. There were several cases of the mutilations, certain parts gone and some organs, all removed with some expert precision. I think it was 1977. I used to drive that road fairly regularly for hunting and fishing, in a very distinct old GMC panel van. The investigation must have been on going for some time, because I got a call from the RCMP in the early '80's, after I'd moved to BC. They tracked me down and asked a few questions about me being in the area during that time. Someone (likely a rancher) must have recorded my plate number.

Still a mystery as far as I know and common thought was some type of cult. All the cattle found were close to the road.

From: wkochevar
12-Dec-21
Lightning does not require clouds to generate. Not sure the physics behind it but two fast merging temperature fronts colliding will generate it anywhere. My brother was struck (nearly killed him) many years ago along the front range with out a single cloud in the sky..... no lie!! Kip

From: cnelk
12-Dec-21
The two deer probably corner crossed and died from the stress of being charged with trespass.

From: smarba
12-Dec-21
I was once mountain biking on an old logging road. Saw an elk in front of me so I stopped, it lay down rolled around and appeared to be wallowing. Was a cow though, which I thought a little odd. It rolled around, raised and lowered its head, then finally laid still. And didn't move. I waited. Finally I crept closer and it was laid flat on its side, no mud or any other reason to have been "wallowing". I tossed a stick, then a rock, then a bigger stick. Then I poked it. Dead. I looked all around, rolled it over, no sign of any wound or injury. Due to fear of some sort of poison as well as fear of getting in trouble for it, I didn't salvage the backstraps or anything. Never knew what had caused it to die. It was definitely a young cow maybe 1.5+ years old, looked healthy and certainly hadn't died of old age.

From: Rock
12-Dec-21
We have found at least 2 Antelope dead over the years on a ranch I hunt on and never saw any sign of any injury on them and they were fresh. Never did check back on them to see if anything ate them.

12-Dec-21
YaYa man

From: StickFlicker
12-Dec-21
Seems like the suspicious conditions would have warranted having the lab test for cause of death, in case there's something bigger going on that they need to address sooner rather than later.

From: Thornton
15-Dec-21
Grey ghost- those cattle mutilation were easily explained when a few military guys started talking decades later. Apparently, NM and CO were host to underground nuclear charges set by the gov't in some of the earliest attempts at fracking. They had an elite group of guys in special helicopters that were engineered for quiet operations similar to what the SEALS use. Their objective was to take "samples" periodically from those fracking areas to test for radiation. Those samples were organs from readily available domestic livestock living off the very land that was contaminated. Sad thing is, the ranchers who lost all those livestock were never compensated and many went to their graves thinking aliens did it.

From: Jaquomo
15-Dec-21
Marvin, we don't know what sort of tests they are doing. The CO took the heads for testing. My friend hasn't heard anything back.

From: Ambush
15-Dec-21
Thorton, would that explain the same occurrences in central Alberta in the later seventies?

Do you have any links to that theory? I'm curious now that it's been brought up.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Dec-21
I, too, would enjoy reading any links you have Thorton. If it truly was some sort of special military operation, they did one helluva job covering up their tracks. How did they explain the fact that scavengers would not touch the freshly mutilated carcasses? And why were the carcasses and mutilation sites completely void of blood?

Matt

From: RT
15-Dec-21
Sounds like a 2am talk show.

15-Dec-21
“ And why were the carcasses and mutilation sites completely void of blood?”

If the “Aliens” could figure it out, I suspect our SF guys could do as well… maybe just bleed them dry as sample collection…. and those guys ARE paid to be damned good at covering their tracks.

I don’t know about the scavengers other than that not all carcasses get scavenged.

From: scentman
15-Dec-21
I have always been an opened minded person, some say I am gullible at times... friend once told me his brother shot at a fast running doe and dropped her in her tracks... trouble is he never hit her, no entry or exit wound. They did their own butchering and found her heart basically blew up. Is that possible?

From: Grey Ghost
15-Dec-21
"I don’t know about the scavengers other than that not all carcasses get scavenged."

I've never seen a fresh carcass not get devoured in a matter of a few days, or even hours, in my neck of the woods. And I live in one of the counties that was hit hardest with the mutilations. The fact that *none* of the mutilated carcasses were scavenged is just bizarre to me. I felt like I was listening to an episode of the Twilight Zone when my neighbor was telling me the stories.

Matt

From: Bowfreak
15-Dec-21
Sorry, but sitO has the best and most likely answer. It is even funnier because I know his knee jerk reaction would have been to blame it on baiting in Kansas. :)

15-Dec-21
Local knowledge beats the view from here!

Does seem like things like coyotes were a lot more thinned out 30-40 years ago than now…. “But ya gotta know the territory….”

Although I’m pretty sure I could keep coyotes off of a carcass almost indefinitely just by setting a few traps around it. ;)

Maybe there was some scent left behind?

From: lineman21
15-Dec-21
Had a rancher buddy lose some cows to car batteries that were dumped in his pasture. Cows licked them and it killed them. Could be something like that.

15-Dec-21
The bovine corpses stunned the ranchers who found them. The animals’ ears, eyes, udders, anuses, sex organs and tongues had routinely been removed, seemingly with a sharp, clean instrument. Their carcasses had been drained of blood. No tracks or footprints were found in the immediate vicinity—nor were any of the usual opportunistic scavengers.

Between April and October of 1975, nearly 200 cases of cattle mutilation were reported in the state of Colorado alone. Far from being mere tabloid fodder, it had become a nationally recognized issue: That year, the Colorado Associated Press voted it the state’s number one story. Colorado’s then-senator Floyd Haskell asked the Federal Bureau of Investigation to get involved.

Throughout the 1970s, cases had continued to mount throughout the American heartland. And in 1979—after thousands of reported cattle mutilations, causing millions of dollars of livestock losses—the FBI finally opened an investigation into a series of cases that had reportedly taken place on New Mexico’s Indian lands. Pressure came, in part, from a heated public symposium on the subject that had been convened by that state’s science-minded U.S. senator, Harrison Schmitt, who had a Ph.D in geology from Harvard and had walked on the moon as an Apollo 17 astronaut.

Ultimately, the FBI’s inquiry poured cold water on the idea that something strange was afoot. On January 15, 1980, the Bureau closed the investigation, putting out a statement saying that, “none of the reported cases has involved what appear to be mutilations by other than common predators.”

From: Thornton
15-Dec-21
I wish I had the link. It was an informative channel that was actually talking about a guy who made it his life's work to prove alien's were at Roswell. The show did a side story on the explanation for the animal mutilations as it all tied in with the original story. The government was testing the livestock for radiation. They purposely put weird lights on the choppers and reduced the engine noise to throw off people who might see them. The operations were often done at night.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Dec-21
Paul,

My neighbor who had several cows mutilated said the FBI's conclusion was complete nonsense. He's been a rancher his entire life and has seen plenty of predator kills. His cows were not killed by predators. He's a crotchety old boy, but he's as honest as the day is long, so I believe him. He's not buying the military special ops theory, either.

Matt

From: Ambush
16-Dec-21
Common theory in Alberta at the time was something cultish. I don't recall details of lack of blood or predation. And thinking back I was questioned at the time and several years later, so the file must have had some "cold case" attention.

From: Ermine
16-Dec-21
Interesting stuff

From: Jaquomo
16-Dec-21
The FBI's track record of honesty, transparency and accuracy hasn't been so hot after coming under investigative scrutiny. Why would anyone believe their professed conclusions about something so mysterious as mutilations, if they couldnt even get the simple Carter Page deal right?

From: Coyote 65
23-Dec-21
Thanks for that bit of wisdom Jaquomo. Now I won't have to respond and get on some list.

Terry

24-Dec-21
Lou, I thought the FBI were the last of the non political Boy Scouts. But do a little digging and you learn they are just another greasy, political wing of the Govt. The leadership is more concerned with their power and protecting their political wing. Most in senior leadership are just politicians. It started well before 9/11. But got much worse after due to the heat they got for missing the signs.

When agents learned that they would get promoted for making busts. by infiltrating and pushing groups into acting on plots.

The FBI provides the funding and resources to act. They went from infiltrating and observing, to actually promoting and pushing groups into acting so they would be seen as breaking up these groups. Perfect example is the Michigan governor “kidnapping” most of that group were FBI agents the rest had no funding or resources until the FBI gave them that. and actually pushed them into acting. The “Ring leader” was a homeless guy with zero resources and reduced mental capacity.

The FBI is as dirty and corrupt as the rest of the 3 letter agencies.

Sorry for the rant. And derailing the thread. Couldn’t help myself:^))).

Back to happy peaceful thoughts. It’s Christmas time

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