Bears-Glock 20 vs Springfield XDM Elite
General Topic
The Springfield has my attention. It is 27 oz. And looks like a nice alternative to the different Glock models. Does anyone have any experience with this handgun?
Nice looking handgun there, Id love to test fire it! Loaded Glock 20 is nearly 40 ozs, XDM is looks like 27 as stated!
It's my go to gun!! But my assessment isn't a complete comparison since I do not have much experience with the glock 20. Springfield makes a good product. I have several and they are stand out shooters. Get one, you'll love it.
There are times I want a compact pistol and times I want a full size one. When it comes to bear protection, I’ll stick with the full size. More stopping power, more capacity, and a less recoil/muzzle rise. Plus, for multiple reasons, I prefer Glock to Springfields.
Smith and Wesson offers the M&P in 10mm now. That should be on your list.
They have a 15rd mag for it. I like the XD line. I'm a big revolver round guy for big bear country. But for black bear and 2 legged bears it might be a good fit.
Didn't realize S&W made one now. Love my Shield for EDC.
Stix,
You say that as if it is settled. Far from settled with regard to hanguns vs spray for grizzly.
Bowfreak, they dropped it just a few months ago. I was looking at a XD only because S&W wasn’t offering a 10mm.
Spray is effective but it gets windy on Kodiak
Well for once I agree with BEG!
Love my glock 20 but have not had to use it on a bear
Hang out with me on the non-political threads, spike! I bet we’ve got more in common than not!
I haven't played with the Springfield but I love my Glock 20 sf for a bear carry gun. Its hands down the most accurate pistol I own!
The Springfields are awesome
I own 12 glocks and 4 Springfield’s and wish it was the other way.
They are both great handguns but at this point I would go with the Springfield
I still remember when Springfield started importing what would later become the XD series from Croatia back in the early 2000's. I immediately noted it to be more accurate, and superior in function to the Glock. My first one wasn't even stamped Springfield yet, and it was only $300
I have many Models, calibers and Brands and the XDM is one of my favorites for target and it is what I used for 3 gun shoots. Great gun for the money
For the OP. I should have added that one of the many brands I have is Glock, in different generations and calibers.
Have several Glocks. Every time I pull the trigger they go BANG. Several thousand rounds & not one malfunction!
I love my Glocks too. But when the XDM came out. It had custom type features that others didn’t add till years later. And usually at a higher cost
Altitude Sickness,
You have the 10mm? What ammo have you ran through it?
Sorry, I do not.
I was speaking for the platform not the Caliber.
I have Glocks too, but I'm old school and prefer the simplicity of a double action revolver that packs a punch. Not the lightest to carry, though.
Matt
I think it comes down to what fits you the best and what you shoot the best. I’ve got a Glock and an XD. I prefer the XD and it’s not even close. Also have a S&W 629 classic - just wouldn’t want to lug it around on an archery elk hunt.
What would be the recoil in that XD? I don't have a glock 20 but have shot one, that 10mm has some pop. I do own a 19 and the 20 had seriously more kick to it, especially with the hotter loads, that made more difference than I thought it would. Can't imagine shooting a lighter 10 for fun and practice. But you're right, the trade off is weight you're carrying all day. If you can handle it and get a bunch of good practice with it... likely be worth it. The idea is you only have to use it when you need it. And honestly don't need all that much practice if you're stickin' it down his throat... =D
Have you looked at the Glock 29? That would be a closer comparison weight/size wise? 32 oz I think with 10 round mag. (been looking....)
This thread needed more photos. By G20 bear gun. I run it off a chest holster (either Blackpoint Tactical or a Razco run off my bino harness). Run in that fashion, I don’t even notice the weight.
It’s the gun that’s been serving as my daily carry as of late. Glock 43X milled for a Holosun 407K.
If you’re looking for something light, the XDM is a better choice. Other than that, the Glock 20 is the way to go for a bear pistol. Higher capacity, less recoil, and more accurate. For a gun that is going to get beat up in the backcountry, I would only trust a Glock. They are made to last and are very very very reliable. My Glock 20 is my favorite pistol to shoot… only problem is 10mm ammo is hard to get and it’s wicked expensive because of that.
My XDM 10 with Underwood ammo has served me well at the range and in the field. Three years, lots of rounds and zero issues. We all like what we have money in.....usually.
Grey Ghost x2, lived in Ak and the simplest is the best.
I have a glock 29(10mm compact) it's a powerhouse for a compact pistol. I prefer the simplicity,reliability,durability and reputation of a glock. Many people trust their lives to them on a daily basis and I am in that category. I am by no means a pistol/gun expert this is just my humble opinion. I agree that the most important thing is to pick the pistol that fits you the best and the one that you shoot the best. I have found that I shoot the compact glocks better than the full size models, they just work for me. I also would rather have a 9mm with hardacst rather than throwing rocks or sticks.....lol......
I got into shooting Glocks and found them to be pretty good until I bought a P80 build kit which uses all Glock parts. The grip is far better in terms of size and angle then the Glocks. Give it a try you will never use a Glock grip again but yet you still can use all the reliable and simple parts.
Both good guns, shoot both and choose which you like best. I have the G20 and love it, a tack driver. Hard to beat a glock for reliability, certainly something to think about.
I don't know a single person that is good with a pistol ...and they never train with it. Zero
Springer/Glock- both good. Glock is the gold standard everything else is judged against.
I use a stock G20 in Big Bear country. Why? I train with Glocks a lot.
The first few times I shot Glocks I thought, "Brick with a crummy trigger, yuch" Then I shot with a Navy seal friend of my NFL buddies and he set me straight.
With no training, a great trigger [like in a 1911] makes a huge difference. As you become a better shooter, the trigger matters less.
I have 1500 rds through my G20, 700 of them Underwood 200g hardcast- with zero malfunctions. As long as you clean it about every 400 rds, no leading in the stock barrel.
I'm lucky to have a friends ranch where I can shoot steel plates. The best training aid there is is pictured here- a laser bullet. My wife is conditioned now to me shooting football players on the field while watching a game in the living room. A good way to get in a bunch of trigger pulls.
Glock is good but I’m not quite sure it’s the gold standard. A lot of people don’t like the grip angle so it takes a lot of getting used to. You would think that since the 80’s Glock would have at least rounded the slide so it wasn’t block shaped. I like my Glock 21 but can say I’ve shot a lot of great guns like my Sig 365xl. What drives me nuts is that some gun newbies act like Glock is the end all be all gun kinda like Mathews of the gun world.
By ‘ Gold Standard’ Im talking about reliability. Glock is as good as it gets for reliability.
My Springer TRP And Kimber 1911s are much easier for a rookie shooter to get hits with but both have had hiccups, FTFs.
Numero uno for a self defense gun is reliability. Glocks have a proven track record of going bang when its supposed to.
Worth noting, I take a lot of first timers shooting. My G17,G19, G20 have been 100% for me…. But not for some of ny daughters friends and women who dont grip the gun. The only pistol that Ive seen that is 100% with women is a H&K. You can literally shoot those between your thumb and forefinger and they will still function.
Agreed, Beendare. That’s why Glocks are carried by the vast majority of people who’s lives depend on their gun going bang when they pull the trigger. It’s also what I value most in a gun that will protect me from bears.
"I don't know a single person that is good with a pistol ...and they never train with it. Zero" You're welcome to guest at our club. A different assumption may be reached.
"Glock is the gold standard everything else is judged against." Wow, just wow!!
There is a reason why glocks are so popular, because they work when you need them to. Law enforcements relies on them and yes there are other guns that also shoot well and are reliable. I have a couple glocks and like them very much, but I also have some kahrs whcih I tend to carry more than a glock just becuase of size, but the reliability is second to none. It's a personal choice and what you shoot best, but if you or I had to choose just one gun I would choose a glock 20 hands down. Gator, there are plenty of folks who are good with pistols, but generally your average shooter needs a ton more practice.
Lots of Glock haters out there… and I dont get it. Before Glock showed up you had to shoot a wheel gun for 100% reliability. There are very few Glocks out of the factory that are not 100% reliable and if they aren’t they make them reliable on their dime.
Pretty no, reliable- absolutely (unless heavily modified)
Now there are many good choices and most are extremely reliable.
The glocks that fail are the ones modified, as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Lenny wouldn't make his millions if he didn't sell the sizzle lol
I’m not gonna get into the Ford vs Chevy argument except to say I own several Glocks and no Springfields. One of my best friends does though and I’ve shot his a bit, and he’s shot them a lot. Good guns ! However, as soon as I can get my paws on an S&W M&P in 10mm, that’s what I’ll buy. I already have a G20 and a G40 with a reflex sight on it, but the M&P grip just fits me like a glove. That what I carry most every day, a Shield Plus Performance Center 9mm and it’s the best carry gun I’ve ever owned.
I wou;ld really like to hear from a guy or gal, who confronted a big bear with a pistolf.... I like to hear from someone who has been actually there in the moment.... Seems to me, if I was in that world, I would want a cut off 338 rifle or shotgun....
I have never been there,, but I have been there on the streets in the lower 48, I hung onto my 45, as long as I could, luckily when they forced the 40, I retired
When the shit hits the fan, your lucky to get off one if not 2 accurate shots, someone is shooting back...... I can just imagine how[ hard it would be on an animal, who only intents is to kill you
But what do I know,,,, I only know humans, been there done that, I bet a big bear is a bigger problem
I have faced humans,,, most hesitate, or have no idea of what they are doing,,,, I would imagine facing a brown or grizz, is pure terror
Nothing keeping you from lugging a shotgun or a 45/70 around. Most pistol ranges rent guns for you to try, shoot them all and see what fits you best. Easiest way to solve the problem, as far as being in front of a bear with a pistol, you won't know until it happens.
What holster do you guys run while elk hunting with a g20?
I run a Razco holster off the bottom of my AGC bino pack.
There are a couple articles floating around the internet on these bear encounters. One good one was on the Guns and Ammo site 4-5 yrs ago as I recall. Everything Ive seen points to the over penetrating Hard Cast ammo being a game changer on the big bears. That and training. I sometimes practice with my tab in place.
I know many guys that have faced off with brown bears… but most of these stories dont ever get told. If you have ever reported one of these cases you will know why.
A self defense against a bear in Alaska initiates a lengthy investigation and FYI, the way the F&G approaches it, you are considered guilty until proven innocent.
One group of friends that did report one of these cases were held up for 3 days in Anchorage with the F&G flying out to the site, and grilling them all individually. F&G told them if they find one hole in that bears hind end, they are in a heap of trouble.
I train with Glocks in a Kydex belt holster, so thats what I use on a hunt for muscle memory.
I have several different brands of pistols but Springfield is my go to carry weather I’m bow hunting or just carrying. This is the XD -9 Subcompact Mod 2. The Grip Zone is very comfortable in my hand. It also comes with an extended mag but don’t carry it when hunting because of extra weight.
I've had 4 or 5 encounters with bears at close range. The closest was 19 yards on a yearling grizzly. Luckily it turned as I jacked one in and it bolted off. Learned a hard lesson that day. If it had been after me, I'd have been long done before I'd ever even gotten the gun out.
Since then I have been carrying a glock 20 with hardcast. I've spent a number of days practicing drawing, turning and shooting 90 to 180 degrees from the direction I was facing.
I actually hate the way the thing feels, but it's very accurate and pretty much bullet proof. Here's the holster I carry on my belt of my back pack. I can swap it out from the pack to my belt if I drop my pack and have it with me at all times now in grizzly country.
Pretty sure it's a safari land. Nearly perfect for belt carry and lots of protection around the trigger area if I were to fall down into some bushes.
Never did see an xdm 10mm in my travels, but after this thread, I'm interested in giving one a test drive :)
Cheers, Pete
Sorry here's the actual gun and holster.
Everyone here has good points, also the recent combat vets, who have all my respect,,, What I did or where I been, a long time ago, who cares,,,, I thought it would be interesting to hear, from those who actually had to react on a charging bear, in real time
If I recall reading a recent study on bear attacks and defenses with handguns, a good number of them the gun was used during the actual attack, after physical engagement. The victim not able to stop the bear or get off a shot until actually being mauled. I seem to recall even a story of somebody killed the bear after it knocked him down, but also shot himself in the foot at the same time shooting from his back?
Not sure if bear spray much an option at that point, during or after contact? Or if a long gun could have even been deployed? Seems at some point or scenario a handgun would be the logical choice, if not the last chance.
Just a thought for the anti-handgun argument I sometimes hear about "you'll never have time to use it" to "you'll never hit what you are shooting at". If you have it on you and point blank range, you still may have a fighters chance if you can keep your head about you. Not saying I would keep my head..... but if not that, likely nothing else would give me that chance. I could be 100% wrong, but the idea of your only choice being fetal position and crapping your pants.... just not how I want to go.....
One thing to keep in mind is if a bear is on top of you that you might have to shoot it one handed. Try pulling that off with a big heavy hard kicking revolver.
In my opinion its a no brainer , the G 20 has more rounds and more penetratiton. I have carried it for 5 years on fishing trips all through out the west. Its a little heavy but well worth it. Loaded with Buffalo bore 200 gr hard cast ,I feel confident for any confrontation.
In my opinion its a no brainer , the G 20 has more rounds and more penetratiton. I have carried it for 5 years on fishing trips all through out the west. Its a little heavy but well worth it. Loaded with Buffalo bore 200 gr hard cast ,I feel confident for any confrontation.
It's a Glock 20 vs. a Springfield, and your handle is Spring20, yet you chose the Glock...is this the real world?
c3, pardon my rudeness, but I would never carry that holster anywhere except the range. I want no retention straps and no clips on an OWB holster. When you forget to unsnap that strap, or miss it in the excitement, your carcass will more than likely be vulture fodder. It’s gonna be tough enough to outdraw a grizz without complications. Just sayin’. ;-)
I will never be concerned with a gun for grizzlies. My days out west are done. But one thing I have learned over the last 6 months is most people do not practice using thier gun or guns. Pull it enough from your holster to make it habit and keep pulling it. Practice dropping a clip and reloading. Shoot it to the point where when you pull and aim you know where it's going to hit. I doubt one will have the time to get steady and aim. I shoot a sig 320 and a little ruger and my favorite is a smith and Wesson model 59. Never falters but I shoot for fun and practice.
Sig is about to release a P320 10mm.
Only issue I see with a Springfield is the grip safety, if that particular model has one. My XDM does..
Two ways you can get compromised by a bad guy in close quarters, 1- if he's smart he can grab your slide and put pressure against it to keep it out of battery, thus it won't fire, which a bear can't do as he doesn't have opposable thumbs, but if he has you down, you can't just jam it in his ear and pull the trigger like you can with a revolver...pressure on the slide front can keep it just enough out of battery that it won't fire. 2- if you get form compromised, gun knocked 90 degrees out of your hand in the bear wrassling scuffle, , the SA pistol won't work because of the grip safety, the Glock will. Something to keep in mind. If you don't get a shot off prior to being struck , odds are you're gonna be short a wing in the first skirmish...
Yes, what krieger said. Precisely why I tried to talk a guy out of a pump shotgun in a similar thread. If you're lucky enough to get one shot off,...how in the world would you get a second shot off with a pump? While being tossed around by your other arm...
Question for you sidearm guys. I have a Glock 20 (10mm), strictly for personal protection. Taking it to Kodiak this November and our transporter is saying leave the bear spray at home (due to the winds on Kodiak that time of year). I'm considering adding a red dot for faster target acquisition. The red dot I'm looking at comes in 4MOA and 8MOA. I'm thinking bigger is better for close range...but thought it best to ask experienced red dot shooters before dropping the coin. Thanks in advance!
Pav I just got a red dot for my 365xl and I like it but for a charging grizzly I think I would go with the regular irons. I’m guessing a charging bear will be on you so quick it would be point and shoot.
but Krieger…just like elk have been conditioned to bugle less….Bears now know that when you draw a revolver on them they can grab the cylinder which keeps it from firing- grin
In fact, True story; When we used to guide for hogs my buddy had a twig that fell into his holster while tramping through the brush that wedged in the cylinder of his .357 revolver ( ruger security six) that kept it from firing.
FWIW, a buddy that was helping me guide a rookie hunter grabbed a 1911 with his finger between the hammer and the frame when the disoriented hunter pointed it at his head.
Many ways to keep the different pistol designs from working properly. An argument can be made that the Striker fired Glocks are THE most reliable….but of course everyone has their preference.
I guess I still haven’t figured out why you guys are thinking that you would be willing to pack a double stack magazine, when the chances that you get off more than just two or three shots don’t seem to be that good.
I mean… If you’re going to carry a single-stack and a spare magazine, you might as well just keep them all in one place to begin with. There’s a certain irrefutable logic to that.
I guess I would have to dig up one of those threads which has reviews of as many reported incidents as possible where people have used firearms to repel bears, and look into how many shots were fired before either the bear turned away, or the human got trucked.
Lots of “What if” in this thread.
The assumption that we will only get off one or two good shots may or may not be the case.
I know of one case where a charging G bear was stunned on the first shot….then dropped on the 8th shot.
In a case like that, it would suck pulling the trigger on an empty cylinder- grin
I’ve seen the same thing happen multiple times with hogs where the first shot stunned them…and they were still on their feet a few shots later. Now, that was many years ago when the prevailing wisdom was the stopping power of hollow points…which explains some of that…but still, no harm in not running out of ammo in a fight for your life.
.
“many years ago when the prevailing wisdom was the stopping power of hollow points…“
Hollow Point: (n) A sometimes effective means of making a smaller bullet do a job where a larger bullet is required.
;)
Overall, I’m pretty much pro-expansion. Just so long as it’s CONTROLLED expansion.
But I do like big bullets that just don’t need any. I’ve never seen a deer go down any quicker than a few that I’ve taken with a .54 PRB…
Here is a black bear attack story for you. I read this story awhile ago and remember it said he used his last round to finally kill it. And this is a black bear. Never know if you need a full mag.
Crazy story. I guess there’s not much question on the DLP if they have to cut it off your leg.
But I didn’t see anything about what (or how many) round(s) were used
C3,,,,you have had encounters and been there. I respect your choice, etc, not so much on the holster. My question is, you stated, : the bear left, as you jacked one in"? Why would you carry, without a round in the chamber? I never understood that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The weapon is no good, without one in the chamber,,,, at least in my opinion, and I carried a gun for 32 years on the job,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just curious
Gun without a round in the chamber is useless, and ones who carry that way need to train more to be comfortable carrying a loaded firearm. Any bear pins their ears back and runs at me is going to get shot dead. I'm always amazed when I hear of propel going into the wild without some form of protection.
"FWIW, a buddy that was helping me guide a rookie hunter grabbed a 1911 with his finger between the hammer and the frame when the disoriented hunter pointed it at his head." Interesting historical tidbit that has nothing to do with this thread: One of the cops who captured Lee Harvey Oswald did just that with LHO's drawn revolver during the theatre struggle. The cop's smarts kept him from being LHO's third victim.
BTM, thats interesting.
FWIW, in my buddies case, we were guiding a total Rookie on hogs with dogs. I was standing next to him on his left when he walked up to the total rodeo that was 4 dogs fighting a big boar in a dry creek. The hunter was packing, “his granddaddy’s” 1911 from WWII though we told him to leave it at the truck.
You could see how discombobulated the guy was when he walked up on that. I can imagine that many of us would be the same in a grizzly bear charge situation. The hunter pulled out his cock and locked 1911 and pointed it at the pile of moving mass which was our dogs and the hog.
My buddy on the other side of him screamed at him “NO, don’t shoot, give me the gun” and the guy turned pointing the gun directly at my buddies head. My buddy reflectively just grabbed at the gun and it turned out that his pinky was in between the frame and the hammer- not by design it was pure reflex. Lucky…and btw, that was my last day guiding hunters for hogs.
A guy can positively influence how he will react in these bear charges through training and running through scenarios in advance.
Of course you could never plan for every possible encounter, but a little preparation goes a long way.
Thats why that Uptain attack bothers me, a little bit more preparation and the odds are Uptain Survives. We can learn a lot from that one.
Beendare, I read about a karate master who studied karate for years and when he ended up in a fight and adrenaline kicked in he instantly forgot everything he learned.
I think I mentioned it already but to that point Spike there is a great book on the subject; ‘On Combat’ by Christensen and Grossman, fascinating.
Practice drawing your pistol until it becomes second nature. Practice shooting from the holster at your range, if they allow you too. Just like huntng, practicing for different positions while shooting. The only thing you can do and then hope if that day comes you react as you trained.
If a bear is on top of you you're never going to know the revolver went off fella until it won't fire again.
No sights are needed, you will not have time to acquire them. Point and shoot!! I would assume the biggest issue in a bear charging you is trying to keep a calm head. If you can remain calm the old side step method may be your best best but that may only buy you time to shit your pants. We as a group would need to hear from someone who has been there. I shot tens of thousands of rounds over a 4 or 5 year period with a 45 both in Springfield and Kimber. I actually got very accurate and pretty quick, I doubt I could of got off 1 let alone 2 accurate shots a pissed off charging grizz from 30 ft. Again its about keeping ones shit together and I doubt most of us could!! Oh and to answer the question I would go with the Glock, not crazy about them but they always and I mean always go bang!! Shawn
M340PD revolver. Practice with .38s and hope you don't have to shoot the .357s 8^)
BTM- literally volumes of evidence that LHO didn't kill Kennedy. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you'd do yourself a favor by watching "The Last Phonecall Lee Harvey Oswald Made". Saw it it and multiple others on YouTube that completely confirmed LHO could not have made multiple moving shots on a small target at that range with such a crappy rifle.
Carrying a chest holster seems fine and I guess is more comfortable than a hip rig. However, I've always thought what if your attacked on you back or stomach with a bear on top, how are you going to have any chance of drawing your gun? At least with a hip rig you have a much better chance I would think.
I own an XDM , It has served me beyond well. Never had even a " hiccup " . For the extreme wilds I like a Striker fired pistol or premium short barrel DA large caliber revolver which I have one also .
Carrying a chest holster seems fine and I guess is more comfortable than a hip rig. However, I've always thought what if your attacked on you back or stomach with a bear on top, how are you going to have any chance of drawing your gun? At least with a hip rig you have a much better chance I would think.
For me, a hip rig is a no go when wearing a pack with a belt. Just far too uncomfortable. Only way it's comfortable would be on the belt of the pack, which I won't always be wearing. That's why I prefer the chest setup. My binopack essentially never comes off.
Bowfreak, I just bought the xd-m elite 10mm and shot it last night for the first time. I am very pleased with the accuracy of it. Also it was a pleasure to shoot with very little felt recoil, granted I was shooting 180 grain Federals 1030 fps 424 ft lbs out of it.
“M340PD revolver. Practice with .38s and hope you don't have to shoot the .357s 8^)”
A buddy of mine is former Airborne and a cop, and his forearms are as thick as my calves. So if you want to question his Manliness, you can go right ahead, but don’t say you weren’t warned.
He fired One Round through one of those flyweight revolvers with either a standard .38 load (or maybe +P?). And he said that was quite enough, thank you.
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
“I read about a karate master who studied karate for years and when he ended up in a fight and adrenaline kicked in he instantly forgot everything he learned.”
But when he saw a 15-pound, dark-colored feline crossing the road, did he report a Black Panther sighting because “he knows what he saw”??
I guess there will always be the exceptions, but basically you’re arguing that training is futile. You’re sure you wanna stick with that?
And FWIW… by the time you’re down to having only one hand on your sidearm and the muzzle buried in the fur, recoil strikes me as a complete non-issue. There’s no recoil until it goes off. And call me crazy, but I’m thinking that’s probably going to be the end of the altercation.
44 mag and chest holster.. ever have a primer not go off? I have and don't half to rack the slide just squeeze the trigger again.. but it your life.
Years ago, I read a letter in Outdoor Life. The guy was going hunting in Alaska and wanted to know what type of sidearm was recommended for bear protection. Whoever it was that answered the question noted that in his experience that no matter what type of sidearm used, the hunter usually expired shortly before the bear did. Seemed like good advice. A revolver of some type would be my choice. From what I have in the closet, a 45 Ruger Blackhawk loaded up appropriately. A friend of mine takes a S & W .50. Now, that one is a handful.
For the original post
I finally got on the 10mm bandwagon a few months back.
Bought a Springfield 1911 RO Elite Operator and a Glock 20 Gen 5 MOS
The appearance and feel of the Springfield are high quality and I loved the pistol.
But I always gravitate back to a Glock. The 20 seems to absorb more of the very minimal 10mm recoil.
Can’t go wrong with either. Both fed various brands of ammo with zero FTF
I sold the Springfield since I have an Sig .45 1911
And actually liked the Glock better and shot it better than the Springfield in 10mm
"Can’t go wrong with either."
Agreed as far as being quality arms. But, if planning on stopping a big bear intent on harming you, a lot can go wrong.
Read this article. 104 cases spanning over a century of pistols of all calibers used to deter or kill bears. IMO, 10mm isn't all it's cracked up to be.
DIAMOND D Custom Leather front chest riggs are great / Wasilla AK. Galco has some good chest riggs . And DESANTIS holsters makes a " Yukon Big Rigg model " like out of tough fabric for like 100 bucks . There's other Companies out there also.
IMO, 10mm isn't all it's cracked up to be
From the article...We have found three cases where a 10 mm pistol was used to defend against bears. All were successful.
Lawdog's Link
Here's another link to an article that seems to deal with the original question. 10mm does appear to be adequate for defense. But, the OP's question is well over a year old. If the question now is whether 10mm is enough, it probably is. Since I don't own one, my choices are limited to either a 45 ACP and my 45 Blackhawk. I'd go with the Blackhawk over the 45 ACP. Just my opinion.
Lawdog, you can convert that .45 to a ..45 super. There is a long thread on those on Pistol-Forum.com
Its a good alternative to a 10mm
I'm a 45 LC fan. Handloads are basically 454 Casull level. 10mm runs about 600-700 ft lbs at the muzzle vs 1800.
I love autos and have all sorts except a 10mm. Everything has its place and trade-offs.
Imagine if there was a pistol caliber that provided more penetration and with less recoil than a 10MM in a smaller form factor that held more rounds.
10MM will exceed 3 feet of penetration: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=394
9MM will penetrate 4-6 feet through flesh and bone: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=155
BEG- 3 cases. The locals tell me a 454 Cassull is barely enough on a really big brown bear. I can buy .357 shells that shoot several hundred FPS faster and have more energy than a 10mm.
Those stats have been updated with six more instances of 10mm being deployed against bears, all successfully. Regardless, if I was concerned about just energy, I wouldn’t be running a 10mm. However, that is not my only consideration. Familiarity and capacity also matter to me.
Hey there! Choosing a firearm for bear defense is important, and the Glock 20 and Springfield XDM Elite are solid options. Ultimately, your best choice will depend on your preferences and shooting experience. Consider building your own custom Glock-style pistol using a P80 frame from
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Bigeasy, that is why I sold the 10mm 1911 and kept the gen 5 Glock 20. Familiarity. Dependability And capacity.
I don’t think it’s a proper griz or brown Bear defense weapon. But as a backup to a long gun it’s a nice balance of those 3 features.
This shows the importance of having a competent partner with you. With a solid bullet from a rifle.
It also shows how you will want a tether to the butt end of the hand gun grip. To help keep the weapon in the fight.
Might as well add some info on Ammo to this thread. These rounds were designed to be used in a 10mm Mag as defense against Polar bears. Interesting approach: solid copper slug, lighter weight, different shape. YMMV
That G9 ammo looks good but the sharp edge would worry me with feeding issues.
Some 10mm’s have feeding issues with the wide meplat hard cast bullets…they were designed to feed with round nose bullets. My stock G20 doesnt have that problem with 200 g double tap ammo. Ive heard of some 10mms needing the feed ramp polished.
Speaking of buddies, a guide was killed a few years ago. The client didn't know how to operate the pistol, punched the magazine release and couldn't get a shot off. I'm not sure if a guy that is that inexperienced shooting a handgun at a bear on top of you would help things, but it probably would have been best for the guide to show him how to operate the gun and shot it a few times if he was going to be on bear watch with the handgun.
Many mistakes in that Uptain case. Backup weapon was a Glock pistol, buried in a backpack…without a shell in the chamber….and the guy doing the backing up doesn’t know how to use it. While Uptain is getting mauled, the client is trying to get it to fire, he ends up ejecting the mag…then tosses the empty gun to Uptain. What a mess. Its terrible, and I sent a donation to his family…but there are lessons here worth talking about.
A guide or anyone hunting grizz country should have a shotgun or rifle in camp for the ride back in if they are leaving it. The backup needs to be familiar with the shotgun/rifles use, with one in the chamber AND has the hunter standing there with the weapon IN HIS HANDS ready. If you have to dig the backup out of a backpack, its probably too late.
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We typically get the elk out right away…. leaving it sit out there especially overnight in GRiZ country is begging for them to find it.
Pick one you can carry easily and shoot well.
