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Teaching kids - advice please
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Contributors to this thread:
Whatthefoc 06-Mar-22
DanaC 06-Mar-22
azelkhntr 06-Mar-22
SIP 06-Mar-22
cnelk 06-Mar-22
wyobullshooter 06-Mar-22
wyobullshooter 06-Mar-22
Bowbender 06-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 06-Mar-22
Bowbender 06-Mar-22
HDE 06-Mar-22
Whatthefoc 06-Mar-22
azelkhntr 06-Mar-22
Dino 06-Mar-22
PTArcher 06-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 06-Mar-22
cnelk 06-Mar-22
bowhunt 06-Mar-22
Whatthefoc 06-Mar-22
bowhunt 06-Mar-22
HDE 06-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 07-Mar-22
Brotsky 07-Mar-22
Bob H in NH 07-Mar-22
Whatthefoc 08-Mar-22
Bowbender 08-Mar-22
x-man 08-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 08-Mar-22
Kingntuff 08-Mar-22
Rgiesey 09-Mar-22
Whatthefoc 10-Mar-22
Grey Ghost 10-Mar-22
APauls 11-Mar-22
RT 11-Mar-22
Whatthefoc 12-Mar-22
Dino 12-Mar-22
TonyBear 12-Mar-22
Jaybee 15-Mar-22
From: Whatthefoc
06-Mar-22

Whatthefoc's embedded Photo
Whatthefoc's embedded Photo
I am teaching an 8 year old how to shoot. Her form is good, and she has really done well in the 6 months she has been shooting BUT … she seems to be regressing of late. Shooting a Mission Hammr with pin, peep and index trigger release. She is starting to flinch on release. Her release is an obvious trigger smash of epic proportion. I have tried to get her to wrap her finger around the trigger and pull thru with her back - but that has only made things worse. (It’s kind of comical - me trying to teach an 8 year old how to achieve a surprise release when I can’t even do it myself). Any advice from the bowsite? What I should try? Drills we should do? WTF

From: DanaC
06-Mar-22
Shoot from 5 feet, no target.

From: azelkhntr
06-Mar-22
Throw the masks away first.

From: SIP
06-Mar-22
Always a crankwagon in each crowd….

My first thought was along the lines of Dana. Do some blank-bailing

From: cnelk
06-Mar-22
Does the release have an adjustable trigger? If not, get one that does.

06-Mar-22
az…do us all a favor and STFU! Last time I checked this is still a free country. If someone chooses to wear a mask, it’s their choice…not some internet nutcase that regurgitates his political crap onto every damn thread. You have ZERO clue whether someone is immunocompromised or not.

I would also have her shoot up-close blank bale. Maybe even remove her sight. Have her curl her finger over the trigger to her first joint and pull through the shot rather than squeezing the trigger. Have her do this over and over until she feels comfortable with a surprise release. Only then would I put her sight back on and slowly start increasing the distance she’s shooting.

06-Mar-22
cnelk made me think of one more thing. She’s hammering the trigger since she’s anticipating the shot. Make sure her release has zero trigger travel.

From: Bowbender
06-Mar-22
Blank target from 3-5 yards. Eyes closed. Focus on form and pulling thru the shot. TP rears its ugly head from time to time. This works for me.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Mar-22
If she's comfortable letting down without releasing the arrow, have her practice aiming drills. At full draw, have her hold the pin on target until she wavers, then let down. Wait 30 seconds, and do it again, and again, until aiming becomes subconscious and effortless. Then, have her practice pulling thru the trigger with her eyes closed at 5 yards from a blank target. Do that until she becomes comfortable with the surprise release. Then, and only then, have her aim and shoot at a target. If she starts punching again, start over with the aiming drills.

I've helped some archers with terrible target panic, and this procedure helped them. Whatever you do, DON'T let her keep punching. The longer she punches, the harder it will be to cure her TP. Good luck.

Matt

From: Bowbender
06-Mar-22
X2 what GG said.

From: HDE
06-Mar-22
Need to focus on the action of the release without an arrow. Get a draw training bow, or whatever, and have her focus on just pulling through the shot. At this stage, the bow itself and arrow are too much to think about - shot anticipation and arrow impact. She is likely trying to get pinpoint accurate and it's throwing her off, especially if there is any kind of "competition" going on internally.

This is the beginning for a living hell of "target panic". Happened to me to the point to where I hate to shoot a bow. Put it down for the last two years and am now retraining myself on release pull through.

From: Whatthefoc
06-Mar-22
Thanks for the input guys. These are all similar remedies that I am trying to use on my own TP. One more question … is my goal for her to develop a controlled/surprise release, OR a command release with as little ‘pre-ignition’ movement as possible.??

Azelk… the picture is from about 3 months ago, when we were still mandated to wear masks. In case you hadn’t heard, last month we sent some of our best down east to camp on Trudeau’s front lawn. Glad to see you Americans following our lead.

From: azelkhntr
06-Mar-22
From: Whatthefoc06-Mar-22 Azelk… the picture is from about 3 months ago, when we were still mandated to wear masks. In case you hadn’t heard, last month we sent some of our best down east to camp on Trudeau’s front lawn. Glad to see you Americans following our lead.

/// Oh we noticed alright. Keep the pressure on the little bastard for US. DC is surrounded as of today by the truckers. They put a wall around our Capital Bldgs. so they surrounded the whole area.

From: Dino
06-Mar-22
Honestly, go buy a tension activated release, start with a string trainer, then close bale…will change her shooting life.

From: PTArcher
06-Mar-22
+1 for tension release. Wish I would have started that way!!

From: Grey Ghost
06-Mar-22
I'm convinced that accurate trigger shooting is all about subconsciously aiming while slowly pulling the trigger while the sights are on target, regardless of the weapon. Obviously, firearm shooters can't "pull thru" the trigger with their shoulder muscles. They slowly squeeze the trigger tighter while the sights are on target. If they only squeeze while on target, eventually the weapon will fire while on the target. How you physically apply the pressure to the trigger, isn't as important as slowly applying the pressure when the sight picture is right.

My father taught me that in the basement of our house with a single shot .22 when I was around 6 years old, and the lesson has never failed me. I've never had target panic as a result.

On the flip side, I've seen a lot of people who shoot every weapon like shooting a shotgun at birds. They wave the sights in front of the target, then try to consciously time the shot when the sight is flying across the target. Those folks inevitably suffer from TP, in my experience.

Matt

From: cnelk
06-Mar-22

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
Back in high school I was on a NRA shooting team. We shot competition match 22 rifles with peep sights.

Four position rounds - prone, kneeling, sitting, standing. We would learn to fire the rifle between heart beats. For practice we would light farmer matches at 50’.

Definitely learn trigger control shooting competition.

My only regret was I didn’t complete my last bar of Sharpshooter to get my Expert award.

From: bowhunt
06-Mar-22
Lots of good advice above for different ways to cure target panick above. It takes a lot of time and commitment to do it. For an 8 year old, that might take the fun out of archery for her.

Every kids different, but keep that in mind. If that starts to be the case maybe just try a kids long bow and just let her shoot and have fun, with a few less things to think about when doing it.

From: Whatthefoc
06-Mar-22

Whatthefoc's embedded Photo
Whatthefoc's embedded Photo
Thanks for the advice - and btw, if any of you thought this thread had nothing to do with politics or crossbows, you would be wrong.

Teach a kid archery. Real archery. Make it fun, and be sure they take pride in the fact that they are mastering the more difficult task of shooting a real bow.

From: bowhunt
06-Mar-22

From: HDE
06-Mar-22
GG, unless you've actually experienced target panic, it really makes it irrelevant to comment on it and correct it for someone else.

What you described about a stationary sight on target is precisely what can cause it in archery...

From: Grey Ghost
07-Mar-22
HDE, the notion that only people who have suffered from TP can help others with TP is complete nonsense. When I was a sponsored shooter, I practically lived at the local archery range in my free time. I've helped dozens of archers with various forms of TP. Everything from guys who would literally flinch so bad their whole body would shake, to guys who would lock up at 6 o-clock on the target and couldn't move their pin to the center, and everything in-between.

I'll also add, there is no magic formula for curing TP. Everyone's brain works a little differently. The procedure I mentioned above was the most successful, but it didn't always work.

Matt

From: Brotsky
07-Mar-22
Keep it fun for her, balloons, 3D, etc. Get her away from focusing on the middle of that target for awhile. Kids are resilient, she'll do great. Just keep it light and fun, she has a lifetime of archery ahead of her, no need to rush perfection.

From: Bob H in NH
07-Mar-22
She's 8, do not do blank bale. Fun is key. Change the targets up. Balloons or even different paper. Play games, poker, tic tac toe, darts etc

From: Whatthefoc
08-Mar-22
Brotsky - we can’t keep it light here. Competition coming up and she has to crush those little losers. Haha

We blank baled for a bit last night, with eyes closed. It was the only way I could get her not to punch. Just had her wrap her finger around the trigger and make it go off as slow as possible. Next, we did the aiming drill - this was hilarious, she literally could not aim without shooting. Twice in a row she hammered the trigger as the pin went over the middle, even though she knew that was not what she was supposed to do. Anyway, when I finally got her to just aim without shooting, she was amazed at how well she could hold her pin in the 6/5 ring or better. She would hold for 3-4 seconds then let down. Way better already.

From: Bowbender
08-Mar-22
WTF,

Have her blank bale/eyes closed shoot for a week. One night won’t do the trick.

Brot,

When I was teaching my son we did the ballon trick. I also used to pin dollar bills to the target. Told him you hit it, you keep it. Took all my ones the one evening. And no, he didn’t feel bad. At all. Scammed by my own flesh and blood.

From: x-man
08-Mar-22
Good advice so far. One form note to point out. She's too closed, have her step her right foot forward about 6".

To find the perfect stance for each new shooter, have her/him stand on the shooting line and draw & aim with eyes closed, finger firmly behind the trigger. Eyes still closed..let down and draw again. Notice where she/he is aiming and then have them rotate their entire body until they can draw blindfolded and be facing the correct bale. That will reduce unwanted muscle tention.

From: Grey Ghost
08-Mar-22
Allen, I'm glad the aiming drill showed some improvement. Once her brain realizes she can hold on target without releasing the arrow, aiming should become subconscious, like walking. That's half the battle for most. Blank bale shooting with eyes closed should train her brain what a smooth controlled release feels like. That's the other half.

In my experience, the problem with young archers is they lack the patience to stick with those 2 drills long enough, before they want to aim and shoot at targets. Like Tom mentioned, it's not a one session and done deal. She should do those drills for at least a week before ever shooting at a target. I know that's easier said than done, however.

Matt

From: Kingntuff
08-Mar-22
Dude your doing right by keeping her in the game. She may be over stimulied or just wore out. Target panic is no joke either. Sometimes its gotta be all fun no papper. pick a spot shoot. Zero to 10yds. Maybe have her read about byron ferguison sp?

From: Rgiesey
09-Mar-22
Had my kids shoot traditional stuff when they were little then compounds instinctive. They shot better than the pins and release kids. Didn’t develop target panic till later

From: Whatthefoc
10-Mar-22
Tonight was interesting. I asked her to anchor and aim with her finger on the trigger. She couldn’t do it. The sight of her pin going over the middle made her trigger. We have our work cut out for us.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Mar-22
Damn. PM sent.

Matt

From: APauls
11-Mar-22
What happens if you pull the trigger for her? As in wrap all her fingers around the release strap. Had a buddy that's what I did to cure him. He would hold the bow and draw and I would hit the trigger. Sounds like she might need to aim for a while without even the ability to hit the trigger. But I'm admittedly no expert.

From: RT
11-Mar-22
See if you can adjust the release heavy as possible. It will force a proper focus and follow through. Don't wrap the finger either.

Most people are wanting a rifle trigger on a bow and they start to anticipate the shot. You want a heavy trigger on an index finger release.

From: Whatthefoc
12-Mar-22
Another question for y’all. What do you think about trying to teach her to shoot a resistance release?? Carter has a mini version meant for small hands. Do you think it would be a train wreck trying to teach this to a 9 year old? I know of a stubborn 56 year old who is still trying to master a resistance release - not easy after years of punching it.

From: Dino
12-Mar-22
The resistance release is a powerful teacher! As someone who struggled terribly with TP, it’s been an amazing tool. Whenever I get jumpy I simply go back to it for proper training.

From: TonyBear
12-Mar-22
Go back to a light recurve and fingers. Blindfolded at close range to focus on form..

Helps me when the TP dragon rears its ugly head occasionally.

From: Jaybee
15-Mar-22
I have been through this with many youth though out the years. A few things I would try is ask them to draw the bow but not shoot until you say that they can. Usually a person with target panic will shoot before they are even told to. I then would ask them to draw with their finger behind the trigger and I would activate the trigger. I would do this at different time intervals each shot. I also own a Golden Key futura release called "The Answer" that will not allow you to shoot unless the trigger is squeezed and not punched. That release can really be frustrating for someone with target panic.

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