Moultrie Products
The Government ruined my food plots
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 18-Apr-22
Missouribreaks 18-Apr-22
deerhunter72 18-Apr-22
Woods Walker 18-Apr-22
six 18-Apr-22
soccern23ny 18-Apr-22
hawkeye in PA 18-Apr-22
Grey Ghost 18-Apr-22
[email protected] 18-Apr-22
LBshooter 18-Apr-22
[email protected] 18-Apr-22
Lewis 18-Apr-22
spike78 18-Apr-22
hdaman 18-Apr-22
Rut Nut 18-Apr-22
Bou'bound 18-Apr-22
GFL 18-Apr-22
azelkhntr 18-Apr-22
keepemsharp 18-Apr-22
Norseman 18-Apr-22
Treeline 18-Apr-22
thedude 18-Apr-22
spike78 18-Apr-22
Pat Lefemine 18-Apr-22
[email protected] 18-Apr-22
Novembermadman 18-Apr-22
SB 18-Apr-22
Grey Ghost 18-Apr-22
Jeff Holchin 18-Apr-22
t-roy 18-Apr-22
Scrappy 19-Apr-22
DanaC 19-Apr-22
bigswivle 19-Apr-22
ND String Puller 19-Apr-22
70lbDraw 19-Apr-22
Grey Ghost 19-Apr-22
drycreek 19-Apr-22
Lost Arra 19-Apr-22
spike78 19-Apr-22
Pat Lefemine 19-Apr-22
bigswivle 19-Apr-22
bigswivle 19-Apr-22
spike78 19-Apr-22
Swampbuck 19-Apr-22
Scrappy 20-Apr-22
Michael 20-Apr-22
azelkhntr 21-Apr-22
Swampbuck 29-Apr-22
Rut Nut 29-Apr-22
Pat Lefemine 29-Apr-22
Rut Nut 29-Apr-22
[email protected] 29-Apr-22
Pat Lefemine 29-Apr-22
From: Pat Lefemine
18-Apr-22
This definitely falls under the category of ‘first world problems’ but here goes.

When I bought my Ohio farm I purchased a 2018 New Holland Powerstar 100 cab tractor with 200 hours. Basically brand new. I was planting big fields now and a compact wouldn’t do.

I have a two week window to get my crops in and my Fancy new tractor throws an icon that something has failed on my SCR (DEF) emission system. Then the tractor goes into limp mode. It’s got basically limited power. I can pull it into the barn but that’s about it.

I drive to the NH dealer and he tells me he’s down to one mechanic (can’t find help anywhere) who can’t get here until May. After talking to the mechanic on-site, he tells me that 99% of the time it’s a $900 N0X sensor that looks like a spark plug and screws into the exhaust. A five minute fix. Unfortunately, I’m unable to do this myself because the code can only be cleared by a tech with the computer.

I go home pissed, get online, and there’s a ton of online discussion about these emission systems screwing farm tractors up since they became mandatory. Had I have known this, I would have gone with a pre-emissions model that I can repair myself.

Add another useless EPA reg making everyone’s life more stressful and accomplishing absolutely nothing for the environment. Like those stupid gas jug nozzles that never work and you spill gas all over the ground in frustration.

18-Apr-22
I agree 100%.

From: deerhunter72
18-Apr-22
Just another fine example of the govt hard at work screwing over the average Joe. Hope you get lucky and find someone to replace it and clear the error. What a headache...

From: Woods Walker
18-Apr-22

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Truer Now More Than Ever!
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Truer Now More Than Ever!
X3.

From: six
18-Apr-22
Replace the nox sensor yourself then see if you can get an dealer to reset the code. Shouldn't take long and I'm sure they are going to make the same money either way.

From: soccern23ny
18-Apr-22
Could be a lot of things. It could be the def injector is crystalized up with def/urea and not injecting thus the sensor is sensing out of range parameters and you are getting an error code and limp mode. Which could be the case for sitting a lot/not a lot of usage based on hours. Try removing the injector nd see what it looks like... and you also might be able to take enough exhaust off to see its spray pattern while running. Some machines are self clearing once the issue is fixed depending on the issue

18-Apr-22
Go Electric, problem solved;)

From: Grey Ghost
18-Apr-22
Time to buy some mules, Pat. ;-)

Matt

18-Apr-22
We have couple DEF tractors and depend on them for a living. It's a pain in the rear.

Heaters are glitchy and cant keep up in the winter. Sensors and just the expense of buying def and filling them is silly.

From: LBshooter
18-Apr-22
Well the bright side will be when you do get it fixed you can sell and buy an older more reliable tractor. All this green emissions crap on cars etc... Is a bunch of bull. The green movement really means the "green cash" being made by the politicians who are all bought in with the companies pushing green products. One day the people of this country will wake up and see who the real crooks are.

18-Apr-22
I wonder if the added impact of producing, packaging, transporting and increased consumption of resources to pay for it even gains us anything.

From: Lewis
18-Apr-22
Pat feel your pain our family has been involved in farming and agriculture for a bunch of generations going back to pre Civil War or as I call it the war of northern aggression.The regulations that are placed on the farming community is absolutely absurd. I’m retired now but our family is still dealing with this craziness Good luck and stay safe Lewis

From: spike78
18-Apr-22
Ha preaching to the choir. At work we had to buy trucks with the DEF systems and brought them in weekly as the sensor went off and said the truck was going to go in limp mode if it wasn’t fixed. Eventually Ford said we aren’t honoring the warranty anymore because we think you used dirty diesel. Then we find out that our trucks required electronic log books needed to be installed and even if you were 10 minutes away from your base you had to immediately pull over and take a half hour break or get fined by the government. Also if you were half hour away from base and your allowed driving time was up you had to not drive anymore and get a hotel or else you would be fined if your electronic system was audited! Yes the government sure is not there to help!

From: hdaman
18-Apr-22
Your Amish neighbor might work your land for you in exchange for hunting access!

From: Rut Nut
18-Apr-22
Don’t underestimate the government’s ability to F things up! : (

From: Bou'bound
18-Apr-22
Now you know why your neighbors are living the Amish lifestyle. They don’t have to deal with that stuff

From: GFL
18-Apr-22
Ditch the warranty and bypass the emissions. Plenty of mechanics that know how to do it. My fairly new cab tractor has no DEF or DPF filter now. Runs great!

From: azelkhntr
18-Apr-22
^^^^ There ya go ^^^^

18-Apr-22
Pat, do you idle the motor? Idling is the worst for those systems. They need to build up a lot of heat to keep it from going into limp mode. If it isn’t the idling. Then it should be a computer reset.

From: keepemsharp
18-Apr-22
Asa Kansas boy, its your ground get the hell outa my life.

From: Norseman
18-Apr-22
Did you try cleaning your DEF level sensor?

From: Treeline
18-Apr-22
GFL seems to have the right idea…

From: thedude
18-Apr-22
Serious question, how do major producers deal with this shit and does it lead to measurable loss in food production?

I hated the epa stuff that was on my truck.

From: spike78
18-Apr-22
Pat do you use jugs of Def from stores or fill up a van at a gas station?

From: Pat Lefemine
18-Apr-22
I didn't know any of these DEF quirks when I bought the tractor. My F350 uses DEF and it's been painless. I've got quite an education on Tractor emission issues in the last 3 days while I'm sitting here getting nothing done. I'm learning the hard way.

My tractor is still under warranty. Once warranty is over, If I can find someone to delete this bullshit you bet I'm gonna have it done. This derating/limp mode stuff is bullshit too. I don't mind paying a dealer to fix it, but now there's no tech's available. What if it takes 2 months for someone to get here - am I supposed to miss a year of crops? Unacceptable.

18-Apr-22
Major producers just suck it up and pay as well have some redundancy so a machine being down a couple weeks can usually be covered by another. It doesn't reduce production much but it absolutely increases costs, which increases pricing. Now add giant fuel cost increases and inflation/supply chain increases on every part of the process and supplies as well.

And to think it was all by choice.

18-Apr-22
Same issues with every semi built out on the hwy today. Tractors are in the shop for the DEF NOX sensors, heaters and anything else DEF related then the whole rest of the truck!! That's no bulls...t either! Like Altitude Sickness said, idling the motors are the worst thing you can do. If you must idle bump the RPM up to create more heat. The DEF is very corrosive and eventually you will have issues with it eating through the wires in the tank meant to keep the DEF from freezing. If I were you I'd seriously consider deleting the garbage. Only problem you may have is when Sleepy Joe catches wind of this and sends out his emissions checkers to see if the tractors are compliant with you rogue farmers!!!

From: SB
18-Apr-22
I gaurantee you your Amish neighbors are ALREADY hunting your land! ...year round. SOP here!

From: Grey Ghost
18-Apr-22
It’s been going on since the early ‘80s. Only now you’re held hostage to proprietary computer software, that only authorized shops have, in order to fix problems.

I have a large box full of bandaid emissions crap that I pulled off my old Jeep CJ7 engine. I dread the day I have to put that stuff back on, if/when we get emissions testing in my county.

Matt

From: Jeff Holchin
18-Apr-22
Pat, you better look for a rental tractor for this years planting, real quick.

18-Apr-22
Pat,

I know this is after the fact…I have the 75hp Powerstar…130 hours so far.

I think Altitude Sickness is right, it is what my mechanic told me, no idling. I always keep it above 1200 rpms. Generation 4 diesels are a pain! I have a Boomer 45 from 2007, I use it whenever I can.

Best wishes!

From: t-roy
18-Apr-22

t-roy's embedded Photo
t-roy's embedded Photo
Give me a call, Pat!….Maybe we can work something out ;-)

Seriously, all these governmental emissions regulations, just like a majority of all governmental rules, are nothing but a huge burden on farmers/truckers/etc.

18-Apr-22
I believe JD lost a lawsuit last year that basically required a company mechanic to work on their newer tractors, much like NH and the rest of them. Hopefully things change!

19-Apr-22
That 4020 is your answer.

After you get it reset. Keep the rpm’s and heat up when you don’t have a load on the motor. IE; pulling an implement of some kind.

The irony is that you waste more fuel to keep the system operating correctly then without the DEF system and low idle.

From: Scrappy
19-Apr-22
Ask the dealer if you can demo a new one. When your done planting call them to come pick it up and you will think about purchasing.

From: DanaC
19-Apr-22

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
Saw this on Craigslist. Old as I am but looks in better shape ;-)

From: bigswivle
19-Apr-22
Just get it deleted

19-Apr-22
There we go, 2 cylinder diesel with a pony motor and hand clutch! You could use that the rest of your life and still get your money back out of it. Actually there are a lot of tractors out there you could buy, use and probably make money on if you know what your looking for and what’s selling in your area. Ask T-Roy he knows. Go green... John Deere. A beepin $900 nox sensor for a food plot tractor ahhh come on man!

From: 70lbDraw
19-Apr-22
Big swivel brings up a good point. Why can’t you just get the crap deleted, like you can do to your truck?

From: Grey Ghost
19-Apr-22
I suspect Pat is reluctant to make any modifications until his warranty is expired.

Matt

From: drycreek
19-Apr-22
That’s why I bought a Kubota M6040 when I moved up in size…..pre-emissions. I’d heard too many bad things about the newer models. Sorry for your luck Pat, you may have to rent a tractor to get it done.

Oh, and Amazon sells replacement gas can thingys that convert the gas cans back to less stupid days. They even have vent caps to install.

From: Lost Arra
19-Apr-22
Pat: google "racing fuel jugs". I get yellow jugs for diesel and red for gas. Then get the hose bender and you're set. That's all I use for all fuel.

From: spike78
19-Apr-22
Don’t worry soon we will all have electric tractors . What can possibly go wrong there!

From: Pat Lefemine
19-Apr-22
Thanks, I have the racing jugs. Just making a point on how silly all of this EPA stuff has become. And no delete's while my NH is still under warranty. I don't need to give them a reason to deny a warranty claim.

I'm gonna head up to NY this weekend and grab my 55HP McCormick. I can't risk losing my planting window. What a pain.

From: bigswivle
19-Apr-22
Just get it deleted

From: bigswivle
19-Apr-22
It’s really hilarious if you think about it. DEF was created to try and reduce carbon emissions but all it does is make you burn 25%more fuel(this has been my experience, not fact) and now we have that much more waste with the 2.5 gallon throw away jugs that carry the def fluid.

19-Apr-22
I think O’Biden made it a felony to delete them.

From: spike78
19-Apr-22
Not only that but the smell that comes from can’t be good for the environment!

From: Swampbuck
19-Apr-22
Just a thought. Disconnect the battery, replace the sensor, clean the connector good, put some dielectric grease in the connector and try it. The ecm might reset

From: Scrappy
20-Apr-22
X2 what swampbuck said. They will never know at the dealership if it doesn't work.

From: Michael
20-Apr-22
We burn a lot of Def these days. Dirt equipment, cranes, semis and pick ups. We buy it by the tote. Usually when the equipment is new is when we have our issues. Get a couple thousand hours on it the bugs seem to come out.

What’s stupid is Liebherr cranes require the blue def. so 16 -2 1/2 gallon jugs to fill up a 40 gallon def tank.

From: azelkhntr
21-Apr-22

From: Swampbuck
29-Apr-22
Any updates on your tractor Pat??

From: Rut Nut
29-Apr-22
He said it was fixed and ready to be used tomorrow................in the food plot thread.

EDIT: He actually posted that yesterday so he’s probably using it as we read this! ;-)

From: Pat Lefemine
29-Apr-22
I found a different dealer that sent someone right out last week. The part came in on Wednesday and the tech installed it on Thursday. I got 18 acres tilled today and am planting tomorrow. All good. And it was covered under warranty so I'm happy - despite the 3 week setback.

The tech said he's had to replace 6 of these NH DEF sending units since January. He also said the same thing happens to Kubota, Deere, and Case. This confirms what I assumed, it's another ridiculous requirement by the geniuses running the EPA.

From: Rut Nut
29-Apr-22
That must be frustrating Pat- glad you got it fixed just in time!

29-Apr-22
I would order a new sending unit now. A few items we doubled up on have saved major down time. Some others we didn't would have been real nice to have.

From: Pat Lefemine
29-Apr-22
Glunt, I would do that except when the unit throws a code, the tractor derates (limp mode) and only a tech with a NH PC program can swap out the unit an reset the computer. It's total bullshit. I can clear a code on my F350, but I can't clear a code on my Tractor?

There's actually legislation proposed for farmers called "right to repair law" that allows us to clear codes and get our own equipment operational without having to hire a dealer.

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