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The devil you know….
I’m sure most of you remember my run ins with my Amish neighbors in Ohio.
Yesterday I attended the auction where they sold their farm.
They divided the farm into four parcels with the best hunting parcel bordering my farm. I was high bidder on that parcel. It was more than I wanted to pay but it would protect my south border from hunters - so I was happy.
Then the auctioneer put all four parcels together and solicited bids for the combined farm. An Amish family won it on the combined price.
So while the old family of Amish trespassers are gone, I now have to contend with another family. Hopefully they are respectful of my borders and they don’t deer hunt.
Hate sales like that. Lost a cost nice pieces of timber that way. Good luck with the new neighbors.
It might be worthwhile to introduce yourself at the first opportunity and have a polite conversation. You know, an ounce of prevention...
That very exact same thing happened to me Pat... I bid and was the highest bidder of a parcel of my grandfather's farm that I kinda grew up on and ironically Amish bought the whole farm in the end... Urrrrr... I was upset, and another reason I haven't much good to say about this sect...
Why bother with auctioning parcels only to take it away & sell the whole piece? Never heard of that before, but never been in a property auction before. I can see trying to sell the entire lot & if not meeting a "reserve" price, then sell it in parcels. Seems like a more fair process. Sorry for your loss, hopefully it works out o.k.
Agree with Samman....... Sucks!!
Burn their barn down right now. Got to make a statement! They got to know this is your hood!
i would have bought the whole farm and let the amish people work the farm. and split the profits
Thats too bad from what I've seen it usually goes the other way where more is offered for each piece
How do the Amish get so much money ? Is the Amish mafia alive and real in Ohio?
Something is amish in Ohio?
This was my first auction too but from the auctioneer and sellers standpoint it’s an effective strategy to get the absolute best price for the seller. They basically leveraged our individual bids to see if anyone really wanted it all, bad enough, to beat the sum of the parts. It was brilliant. And maddening since I had won, then I lost.
Most painful part was the last two bidders was the Amish family and a 35 year old woman who wanted an organic farm. I wanted her as my neighbor so bad I almost offered to give her the 5k difference between her final bid and the Amish family’s bid!
I’ve gained 4 tracts beside my farm over time. No matter how much property you can buy it will always end with a neighbor beside you.
KHCN, mineral rights and fracking made them rich in eastern Ohio. My realtor told me 80% of the farms he sells are to Amish buyers in Ohio.
I bought my farm from an Amish guy who had dozens of farms. My 130 acres was too small, his other farms were 1000 acres +.
Sorry about the bad luck Pat and I hope your new neighbors are better than the last.
I don't care for the Amish or the Mennonites. Too many bad experiences with them when I lived in Lancaster County.
" I wanted her as my neighbor so bad I almost offered to give her the 5k difference between her final bid and the Amish family’s bid! "
I told a guy last weekend who I wanted to buy a 240 acre place next to mine that if it came down to $5,000-$10,000 or even $20,000 I'd buy some of the least desirable acres (cedar glade) at fair market value to get him the whole farm. Turns out he paid $800,000 for it all and he was ok with that but that'd been worth it
I hate that auction method as a buyer, but of course it's very smart as a seller. The winner almost always end up being a buyer in the total combined sale. The smart strategy, and I realize it's tough to do, is DO NOT BID on the parcel(s) you want. Then buy it all on the combined sale. At the very least that prevents you bidding against yourself. You can always sell off the other pieces. Of course you'd REALLY have to want it, to go to that much trouble.
There’s a guy in our area that does pretty much that. He bids on nothing until it’s all combined, then he buys it. Then he goes to the high bidders of the parts he doesn’t want and sells them.
If the Amish have farms of 1000+ acres, how do they farm it? Rent? A 1000 acres with a horse drawn disk would take a day or 10.
Put up more No Trespassing & No Hunting Signs. You can go to buildasign.com and custom build a sign with a security camera on it to let them know you are remotely watching. Then walk over and introduce yourself to them and let them know you're a hardcore deer hunter who works all year to improve your hunting farm.
Some if us need some of your bad luck
Getting outbid on an annexation opportunity on one of your multiple owned deer properties in three states. Is that right. Man that sucks.
Luck like That could Drive a guy to take up golf
I was under the impression those Amish make great neighbors. No?
Sounds like a scam to me. They already sold it the parcel , then they re-sell it? If that's legal, It's still 'fraud'. When the man said 'sold!' you had a verbal contract to conclude the deal.
Do you really expect any different behavior? These people have no respect for laws that don't pander to them.They hide behind "religion" it's all hypocritical bullshiitte.
Not fraud if they announce prior to sale
The sales I’ve seen they lay out the terms of bidding all in advance, about how it’s going to go, and then they’re careful not to say “Sold” at the conclusion of bidding on each parcel. They make a note of the top bid then move on to bidding on the next parcel. On the combined auction at the end, which is almost always when an actual sale happens, then they declare it sold. Most of them will have done many sales of that type, so they’ll know the rules of the game quite well.
"but it would protect my south border from hunters" No, it just made your south border larger.
At your first opportunity let it be known that the previous owners trespassed and were warned to respect your land rights.
This is a very common practice in the sale of agricultural land. I like to go to these sales and sit in the back to see who has the deep pockets, and the Amish have pockets all the way to their ankles.
They were more than likely driven to the sale in a van by an English driver. If one were to watch after the sale, when the crowd dispersed, they went to the van and retrieved one or more 5 gallon pails that would be stuffed with $100 bills in $10,000.00 bundles. They would have made arrangements prior to the sale with the auction company to have all of the necessary paper work at the sale and would have closed on it by nightfall.
The auction process was disclosed to us before any bids were taken. There was nothing nefarious going on. They never said “sold” and I accepted the outcome.
The buyers had to pay an additional 10% buyers premium on the sale price. This auction stuff is foreign to me. I don’t think I would go that route if I ever sold but it’s the norm down here.
If you think of what you invest into your piece annually, giving her the $5K could have been the best investment made, especially since it almost would have come back in some free veggies ;) That is assuming the amish wouldn't have gone higher. But a guy doesn't have the time to think that kind of thing through during an auction. Hindsight being what it is and all.
Had you thought of doing a handshake deal with her to take the one parcel and she could bid "on behalf of the 4" and then sell you one giving her 3? Or was she all or nothing?
I’m worried; the farmer next to my very small piece will be selling in two to three years he said. I’m worried the Amish might buy it. I’m not a fan of them. No respect for other peoples property. I think I’m buying 11 acres off him this week, Unfortunately I won’t be able to afford the other 90. Not sure I would really be interested. It is all hayfields anyway. If anyone else here is interested in 90 acres with a nice house and barn in east central Ohio let me know!
Pretty standard practice here too. But I generally see it go the other direction (smaller parcels win) but certainly not always.
The guys saying fraud or crime or whatever have no idea what they are talking about. The auctioneer is not selling you the property. He has no ownership to sell, he is simply brokering a deal. The deal is not done until the actual sellers (owners) sign on the dotted line. Generally they have no obligation to sign once the hammer drops unless it’s some kind of court ordered sale.
And generally at real estate sales the auctioneer doesn’t say “sold” as Pat eluded to. They say something to the effect of “we are closing the bid”. In some court ordered sales there is a period to offer “upset bids” where you can put bid even though the bidding process is closed. But this sounds more like a private sale, not an estate or probate thing.
She was bidding on the 39 acre parcel with the house, barn/stables. She had no interest in the other parcels. So if she had won, I would have taken the 25 acres. My guess is she was reluctant to bid any higher because she would have to bring in electric. There was no electricity anywhere on this farm, so someone would need to bring underground or overhead electric at least 500 yards.
Once the new family moves in, I'll go visit them and let them know that I'll be a respectful neighbor. I was the same with the previous family, unfortunately they didn't reciprocate and things got ugly.
Just curious Pat what was the acreage on the 4 tracts and what was the total acreage . Also what did the total go for. Thanks
That sucks, why don’t they just auction the whole piece right from the start?
Go ask the winner if you can buy the parcel you want. It can’t hurt to ask. If he says no use it as an opportunity to introduce yourself and hopefully earn his respect. Then put land mines along the border!
"Hopefully they are respectful of my borders and they don’t deer hunt."
They deer hunt. Someone in the family does. Sorry, I'm a pessimist.
"I wanted her as my neighbor so bad..."
She'd have been perfect. Like the Wensel's place that has the anti-hunter to the north. You were so close to a huge win.
Sorry to pour it on, but it is what it is.
You've still got a great place. You just have to convince them to not trespass and hopefully not shoot more bucks than they have tags for.
I'd have a bunch of those trail cams that take pics in the dark without a flash covering the periphery of the entire border.
Just tell them that you had problems with the last neighbors and had to put them up, but that you hope they'll be respectful of the property lines. Bring them a fresh peach pie when you welcome them to the neighborhood.
I have torn up the bidder card and walked away from sales when they announce that they will add 10% to the winning bid.
I’ll shine a little light on the subject. Just north of me there are lots of Amish. I buy furniture from them. I have to knock on doors to find the right guy for the job. I find most of them to be nice respectable intelligent people. It seems to me that, just like with any race or religion including the people on this website that it’s their kids with too much time on their hands that are most often the problem.
I have a friend with a camp not too far from you Pat. In Ohio minutes from Pymatuning Lake. He can’t leave anything outside during the week when he’s not there. Gone. We’ve busted the culprits. Kids. So he went to the neighbors houses knocked on the door and told them about it and those kids got their asses tanned just like we did back when disciplining kids was still legal.
There are a few bad apples no matter where you look. White trash is everywhere. Give your new neighbor the benefit of the doubt. Buy things from them. Give them some meat from some of your hunts. Maybe you’ll find out they aren’t so bad after all.
Beendare, most of the time, that’s a hard NO!
Excellent post Mule Power…begrudgingly
I live by the words do unto others AND put yourself in the other guy’s shoes. Almost anybody can be my friend if they truly want to. But if I moved in somewhere and the neighbor started off with “Stay the F off my property or you’ll be sorry” I’d tell the kids to kill everything heading his way. Might give him a free ExLax peach pie as a home warming gift too. You get more bees with honey than vinegar.
Begrudgingly? So quick to judge based on the actions of a few. Like I said white trash is at an all time high too. I’d rather live next to an Amish family than a guy who would vote yes to dropping off wolves in the neighborhood telling me the grass would be greener and the fishing way better.
I’m gonna treat the new neighbors the same way I treated the old neighbors at first; with kindness and respect. I can’t fault them for legally killing deer, or any other activity they do in their farm.
My trouble began when the boys kept getting caught on my side of the fence when running their dogs and hunting. First time it happened I gave them a pass with a warning, second time it happened it got uglier, 3rd time and it was nasty. This has been a pattern with this family with all my neighbors. We’re glad they’re gone.
I am 100% certain they have, or will meet with the new owners and I’m sure I’ll be on the list of things to talk about. So they will probably think I’m a prick before meeting me. That’s probably not a bad thing, but I will also make an effort to meet them and let them know that I will be respectful of their borders and will be a excellent neighbor.
I've read this and other threads whereas the Amish, in general, consider any and all lands their hunting grounds, and do as they do. Question: How do they/would they react if someone trespassed and hunted on them as well?
There neck would go from amber, to cherry red.
There neck would go from amber, to cherry red.
Pat, look into autonomous drone flights set up to patrol the perimeter at programmed times of the day. Sending live footage and photos.
Bou- I think you meant PUNJI! ;-)
Bou.. old school. I like it! I thought about that technique for pressured elk but getting them up out of the out would suck.
I'm surprised that many on here aren't familiar with that type of auction. Not always, but that's generally the way land auctions go in my neck of the woods. It's the best way for the seller to get the highest price. The auction terms have to be disclosed before bidding begins.
Pat, would've been nice if you could've worked a deal with the lady, but I doubt the Amish would've stopped at 5K if they really wanted it. You just never know. Also, the lady could've turned out to be a PETA member. Hopefully the new Amish family will be better than the last one. There will always be a neighbor.
It is my understanding that the Amish manage money much differently than most other US citizens. A lot of their money is borrowed from their church. If we borrow from a bank, we have to worry about paying the interest and principal back on a schedule and our cash flow to do that. I have seen them buy property at prices that do not seem to make financial sense to us but work out just fine in the long run. I have seen a young Amish couple with no apparent wealth buy a farm for over a million dollars where the cash flow from farming could not cover the payments and support them. I have a young Amish friend that bought a rundown house and 11 acres of land. They then spend a lot of time and money making the place just gorgeous. They did not want to live in the house so they rented it to a non-Amish guy just getting out of prison for $250/month to help him out when they could have easily got close to $1,000/month. That Amish group owned the land in the area, and they were going to own that piece regardless of the short-term financial issues. I doubt that Pat had a realistic chance at getting that piece, but I am surprised that an Amish man sold him the piece that he has.
You may be better off. We have a lot of Amish where I live (not the picture book, clean place Amish either, but more the hillbilly Amish). I've heard TONS of horror stories from people I trust to tell me the truth.
However, I have Amish bordering me, and I have had zero issues. I don't have cover on my place, so really no deer. The one time they shot a deer that came onto my place, they got the buggy out and came and asked permission to track.
I had beagles on my place one time. One other time their goats got out (after crops were out).
We've never had an issue with them. But we also don't really interact. We wave on the road. I give them some deer from time to time when I am pressed for time and don't feel like I have time to take care of it. Otherwise we all kind of mind our own business.
Also, their place that borders us is kind of out of sight. We can't really see each other. However, we're building a house, and I'm scared to death they'll buy the place across the road from us. . . . I'm not worried about our close neighbors on the other side, as they're family. But I'm really worried about the place just right across the road. The owner is an older lady. God if they came in and put chicken houses or put up 5 or 6 crappy little houses. . . . I'm not sure what I'd do.
My experience with my Amish neighbors has all been positive. 3 have land that is adjacent to mine. We visit a couple times a year. Great guys. One of them found a 160" deer and called to see if it was mine. I let them hunt coyotes and they always call first to make sure that it is okay. One of them helped me clear an ATV trail and put in a culvert to cross a stream and did not want to be paid. (I paid him anyway. The work was too strenuous for me to have done it w/o him.) We share information on who is shooting what. I am fortunate in that most of my neighbors are great. All of my trespassing issues are from non-Amish.
It is a rare event when you get to pick your neighbors.
While I like most of my neighbors, the other day one of them decided to do a pit burn of his cardboard trash in dry windy conditions. He started his grass pasture on fire, and put maybe hundreds of homeowners at risk of loss for what might hundreds of millions in damages. All because he couldn't use the landfill to dispose of cardboard.
The Bible says love your neighbor, it doesn't say it will be easy.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
- Michael Corleone
Without question spend some time to meet with them, let them know your intentions and goals.
While deer know no borders, hopefully they will appreciate your effort.
Hopefully they will Be on the same page with you.
If it where me, I wouldn’t even bring up that past experience Pat, that’s over.
BTW. I’m a little 80 acre block with over 4500 managed acres around me. We all have met, shared a beer and we respect the lines. The common bond started when they contacted me to track a very good deer, during pre rut. Of course I said yes… if could someday be me.
I totally agree with - [email protected]
: "Do you really expect any different behavior? These people have no respect for laws that don't pander to them. They hide behind "religion" it's all hypocritical bullshiitte."
KHNC27 - "How do the Amish get so much money ? Is the Amish mafia alive and real in Ohio?."
I was born and raised and lived most of my life in Tuscarawas County, Ohio near the largest amish community in the nation... Not only their no respect for laws they deal a lot in cash and don't pay taxes... From what I understand they (or most) haven't a social security number to be taxed... Most likely skirting around it too with their businesses and one reason they can underbid most construction work...
I have an open mind and realize there are good and bad in all societies, but most of my experiences with amish have not been good... They call us dumb English and will speak aloud their Dutch/German or whatever it is in front of you about you,,, although I have a few choice words for them I won't repeat it here and just try to avoid them as much as possible...
Do Amish people enjoy bowhunting
Do Amish people enjoy bowhunting
Bou, yes. They bowhunt, both compound and crossbows. Some are hard core trophy hunters. I’ve met several that will hold out for 150’s, put in plots, and even use trail cams set up by their English driver.
If my neighbor is like that, I’d be happy.
But some of them shoot every deer they see and invite their family over to do drives. If that’s my neighbors then that will suck.
You have a problem with people who do business in cash and don’t give any to our filthy rich corrupt government? Pssh. I handed an Amish furniture builder a $500 cash deposit yesterday. Before I set it on his workbench I told him he had to promise me he would not give the government a dime. He said ok. I told him why I felt that way. It was interesting how little he knew about the corruption. He made one comment that summed up all we need to know. He said he knows that they don’t use any of it to help good hard working people. Spot on! I think we should all do cash only business and put those rich greedy bastards out of business!
Cultures, Tribes... we all look at eachother defrently... to understand your neighbor is to understand their culture.
Bou…..I’d say yes. Considerably more than bungee pits…
Better than having white trash neighbors who don't shoot your deer, but you hope they keep the meth lab on their side of the fence...Be careful what you wish for...
Hell no! Meth labs equals theft. The guy I mentioned above that has the camp not far from Pat is in Amish country. At the end of that road a guy shot and killed a couple that lived there over meth. Those people are outlaws and do their share of poaching too. Careful what you wish for. Anything to get by. Anything for money or to get out of paying their debts. White trash!
Yikes, yeah - I'll take the Amish any day over drug addicts or guys that race quads and dirt bikes all day long. I still would have preferred the young girl that was bidding - and if she was a PETA member - even better. That way I know there's no hunting going on over there.
That’s right Pat. Drug people are outright criminals that only care about one thing. I’m not that far if you ever need someone to have a little talk with the new neighbors. No need to compromise your reputation. ;-)
Even the king ranch has neighbors
Definitely don’t want the tweakers, but the jury’s still out for me, on the guys running their quads all over the place. I’ve got a neighbor who owns about 200 acres, that adjoins me for about 100 yds in one spot, and is within a couple hundred yards along a big portion of our properties. There is another 40 acre piece that separates us. He was an absentee landowner until a few years ago, when he moved back closer to this property. He and a few of his buddies are down there every weekend in the summer and early fall, riding their atv’s all hrs. They moved several 5th wheel campers down into an old gravel pit and turned it into a campground, complete with an elevated 200 gallon water tank, for running water! The guys that farm it, got crosswise with him, and he rescinded their hunting privileges. Their group of 5-6 guys, bow/shotgun hunted it hard, and weren’t very picky on what they shot. They still farm and hunt the 40 acre piece, but they don’t see or kill the deer like they used to. Neither do the other 2 guys that hunt a 20 acre piece that is also sandwiched between me and the guy with the 200 acres.
Ever since he and his buddies started spending time and trail riding his property, I seem to see more deer on my property than I used to. Might be just a coincidence, but maybe not. The guys that farm his ground, and hunt the 40 acres, and the guys hunting the 20 acre spot, have all gotten into it with him big time, but I get along with him great. I wished I would have had the “No Trespassing sign” concession, when he moved back! These guys are in a competition to see who can post the most “No Trespassing” signs up on the property line, per linear foot!
Well Pat since you obviously hate amish you probably also hate Hmongs,
Helluva assumption on your part ehh
Mule Power - You think its fair I was taxed over $11,000 EXTRA because of Obama Care after forced retirement after 30 years with a phone company in 2017 because I didn't have health insurance for 4-1/2 months before I got another job when these bastards don't pay a dime??? If you don't pay taxes you're sh!t and stay off the paved roads I help pay for with your metal rimmed wheels!!!
He never said he hated them. He said he’s concerned because of his past experiences and will play it by ear while hoping for the best.
I won’t respond to the silly post above.
One of the town guys told me that my new neighbors are a very strict, traditional sect of called Swartzentruber Amish. They are apparently buying up our area. They have a fascinating culture that has extremely rigid rules, much more than the more traditional Amish.
Is anyone familiar with this sect? Do they hunt? Use guns? Crossbows?
Not familiar with that particular sect Pat. But I hunt my buddy's farm near Clarion, Pa. He has Amish that moved in a few years ago and border his property. It appears they don;t have much respect for the game laws. The kids are known to hunt together without adult supervision(jr. hunters need to hunt with a licensed adult in PA.) It appears they do not even have a license to hunt. He is friendly with the parents, but that may change if he has problems with them in the future.
THere is another Amish family a couple miles down the road that butcher deer. He is very friendly with them as we all take our deer there to be butchered.($50 for basic cut and wrap) We talked to him a few years ago and found out he is from a different sect of Amish than the ones who are my buddy's neighbor. His sect came over to the US in the late 1800's and settled in the midwest(Illinois) much later than the original Amish settlers in PA. From there he moved to Western Pa. He stated they(his sect) were from different parts of Germany and moved around Europe trying to escape religious persecution, before coming to the US. From our conversations with them, they appear to be much stricter and more polite (and law abiding) than the other sect of Amish. It was interesting to find out that there were 2 sects of Amish living so close together, and how different they are.
I grew up in South Central Pa and am very familiar with the Amish, but always assumed they were from the same sect and came from the same area in Germany.
I always thought the Amish kept their money close to them... how are they able to buy up all the land? Land don't come cheap these days... if they gave me 300,000 for a 20 yr old cape on great 25 acre hunting opportunity... sold!!! Any Amish listening? PM me please!
Like I said… there are bad apples in every culture. Can you imagine how many examples of white trash we can come up with? Unlimited!!! Poachers, thieves and vandals, child molesters, serial killers. The whole 9 yards. The Amish live the way our forefathers did. Babies born at home. Hunt, fish and farm and everyone specializes in a certain craft be it baking, blacksmithing, carpentry. I’m pretty sure nobody was passing on a 110 inch buck in 1776. Before we judge we should take a look in the mirror. Would we want people judging us based on the actions of Charles Manson or Ted Bundy. Or the words of AZelkhunter? I think not. I’m all about horn hunting but I don’t care if someone else is a meat hunter. If I was managing private property I’d definitely get frustrated and do what I could to ease the pain on the other side of the fence. But I wouldn’t become a hater.
Anybody that can buy multiple farms in multiple states probably should have just bought 1 big ranch in 1 state. I once viewed a 10,000 acre ranch my friend leased for a few years in Kansas for deer and turkeys. As we all rode in the Tacoma with the owner, viewing the property, I became acutely aware the owner seemed to have a complex with his neighbors. The guy owned a jet, a feedlot, other farms, and 10,000 acres of prime, SE Kansas country. Yet, he begrudged his smaller landowning neighbors, often complaining they wouldn't sell out to him. My friend concluded, "you can own 10,000 acres, and it always looks better on the other side of the fence"... I often remember that quote when I am saddened I cannot afford to buy more land.
What did Bruce say ……………. poor man wanna to be rich rich man wanna be king king ain’t satisfied till he rules everything
Best I could tell he was singing about hunting in South Dakota and the badlands
I don’t know about that Bou but a poor girl wants to marry and a rich girl wants to flirt. A rich man goes to college and a poor man goes to work. A drunkard wants another drink of wine and a politician wants a vote.
We have had the Old Order Amish for many years in our area.Yes the do hunt,poach,steal and take advantage of any English if they can.The are not all bad or good,like any other society.I have used them in the past for building and some lumber(every other one has a saw mill).Just because they are Amish don't make(all)great Carpenders. A number around here have been ticketed for hunting out of season,poaching,trepassing,over limit ect.They are not bashful about stealing either. We just had one steal a couple bee hives from us,lucky we had a camera set-up.Same one got caught on two different neighbors places. Just because they are Amish doesn't make the "godly" or bad.
What did you do once you caught them on video?
He returned the hives.If not report them to their "bishop",that get things done.Again not bashing all Amish,they have their bad apples.I had a pole barn built by a very good Amish carpenter and they did a great job at a good price;building another this year by the same crew.