Contributors to this thread:
AZ OTC deer quotas
A lot of you probably got the email today. I guess AZ is trying to cap the harvest while not losing all that NR revenue. Managing it like a bear hunt. Anyone have more insight?
That is the gist of it. We were losing deer hunts for OTC left and right, concentrating more hunters in less units (20% max harvest for archery rule). Eventually they would all go to a draw on that formula, so this is something to try to prevent that. Some people don't think that is such a bad thing. Others are used to things being like they were. Unfortunately those days are over.
Sucks. Really sucks.
Every TV and Internet personality has pushed hunting down there and made it a “thing”. With the explosion of popularity of bow hunting in Arizona and guys killing deer with their compounds at 100 yards, it was bound to happen.
Would love to see traditional archery equipment used as a tool to manage the issue as an option. Not only in AZ but all across the west.
Those personalities that you speak of were paid by the Department to promote those hunts. They literally paid to ruin our hunts.
azelkhntr ---- you truely are a complete moron!!!!!!!! Randy Newberg has done more for hunting and conservation than you will EVER think of. Go back to your hole!
No Randy Newburg hasn’t. He’s a good guy paid by Arizona to ruin the hunting. I never held it against him but my son sure does. He is just a guy earning a living in the hunting industry.
I like Randy. He's one of the few shows I can watch. Works hard. Shoots average critters. He has definitely contributed to the popularity of AZ otc hunts though. So have plenty of others.
"azelkhntr ---- you truely are a complete moron!!!!!!!! Randy Newberg has done more for hunting and conservation than you will EVER think of. Go back to your hole! "
Did he say something untrue?
Seems like the AZ G&F has some culpability…. Wonder why?
How is it that he is paid by Arizona G & F?
Probably paid for advertisements. I have seen him talk through how the AZ draw system works on shows. Also, that since you have to buy a hunting license to apply, it’s a great deal to get an OTC deer license and apply for javies and go down with a shotgun for quail as well…
Treeline is correct. The internet effect has undoubtedly made an impact. I used to love what Randy stood for (the AZGFD $$ was the final straw for me), and I still think he has good intentions in his own mind (albeit quite flawed in mine) but now the endless barrage of how-to easy buttons has taken things in the wrong direction. I think he (and many other Social Media counterparts) is now doing more harm than good. He's removed what used to be a healthy and positive barrier to entry, effort. It takes little effort now to hunt out of state, just watch a few Randy videos. Anyone can do it! And now we can't draw tags, and are losing OTC access. The golden goose is dead. I wish they would all just go back to producing entertainment. I’m very tired of the how to’s. The info is out there for the truly dedicated, always has been, just took some effort. The SM whores have monetized this information for their own benefit, and the detriment of everyone else who used to enjoy drawing western big game tags.
I get that there are some TV personalities that are making it much easier for people to find out how to purchase out of state licenses. (Some [most] state game regulations, especially for the first timer, truly are a real challenge to figure out).
azelkhntr...... "Newberg negative effect. Were you aware that the AZG&F was and may still be paying that jerk to promote hunting in AZ." *********I have listened to/watched Newberg promote hunting in many, many states, where he talks about how easy it is to obtain OTC tags. Can someone please post that advertisement in which Newberg is being paid by AZG&F to promote AZ hunting? .
This has some info. Read the comments section for something of an update
Creed, thanks for posting that. azelkhntr, my apologies to you.
Had a good online conversation with a fellow in the know in AZ. Basically, this is an attempt to keep archery harvest numbers stable while still allowing OTC hunts. With more and more people hunting AZ and archers getting better at killing deer, I'm okay with that. No idea how many units will still have hunting in December. We'll see how it plays out. I'm open to almost anything rather than decreasing opportunity like most states are doing.
Once some previously OTC archery deer units went to a draw, it signaled the beginning of the end of OTC opportunities in AZ. As stated above, this concentrated more bowhunters in remaining OTC units which has increased the archery harvest % in those units. This recent regulation change is just an interim step between OTC and a draw for tags in the remaining OTC units.
For folks who think the game departments are culpable for the opportunity loss, I really think you are missing the bigger picture. While they are the financial beneficiaries, it was the Huntin' Fool, Eastmans Journal, and the like which started this trend by providing relatively inexpensive information to the masses on out of state hunting opportunities. That spawned the application licensing services, huntertainers, Youtubers, etc. Case and point, my hunting partner and I drew 3 AZ elk tags in 4 years in the late 1990's-early 2000's. Once the information services became established, the wait between number of years between successful draws began to creep up. For my last 2 draws for archery bull tags which were for the same unit took 8 and then 13 points (2020) - a far cry from the 3-5 it took 20 years earlier. It wasn't AZ DFG email campaigns that caused that dramatic shift which began in the mid-2000's.
Process changes like allowing credit cards/not having to front all the money for tag applications has had a big impact as well. That is one aspect that CAN be squarely placed on the game departments.
Matt, your points are valid. But, those talking about G&F are referring to their direct payment of large amounts of cash to out-of-state influencers and TV show hosts, not email campaigns. Also, while I hate to defend AZ G&F, it is the state's banking laws that require them to take credit cards without any up-front money. It would not be legal for them to take the money upfront on credit cards and later refund it if you are not drawn like many other states do.
Matt is right, the beginning of the end was the info services that demystified the Western out of state application process. But even then, you still had to read, and you had to pay a subscription service. And the existence of those services were mostly known only to the already dedicated that visited sites like these. That kept the demand at a sustainable level, so it seemed to me. Besides, Millennials and Gen Z don't read anyways. They like video and they certainly don't like research and having to consider numbers and statistics! And free is better than fee. So it was still OK back then and we could draw some tags and the dedicated were mostly rewarded accordingly. That is, IMO, until Social Media took hold. Then, the Gram and the Spacebook made hunting and posting your grip and grins the cool kid thing. And subsequently, the free how-to videos hit the masses. Now you didn't have to read anything anymore, cause that's hard! And you didn't have to pay anything and you didn't even need to crunch any painful numbers. Hey, just watch a video of good old Randy and he'll simply tell ya how it's done! Mash that easy button! The slippery slope downward got a lot steeper, and fast. And here we are...
"Matt, your points are valid. But, those talking about G&F are referring to their direct payment of large amounts of cash to out-of-state influencers and TV show hosts, not email campaigns. Also, while I hate to defend AZ G&F, it is the state's banking laws that require them to take credit cards without any up-front money. It would not be legal for them to take the money upfront on credit cards and later refund it if you are not drawn like many other states do."
I personally question how much paid influencers have had on app numbers. I am not much of a social media user but was not even aware that AZ DFG was paying Tandy until I read it here.
If memory serves, when we first started putting in for AZ it was check only, no card option. I don't think state law required them to take card, but I do understand that it is much more efficient to not have to process refunds.
Bowhunting Mule deer in the rut will soon be a thing of the past... 10% non-resident otc cap is coming as well. Ed F
OTC deer in Arizona was going to come to end at some point down the road. The explosive population growth would see to that. However, it was the Social Media promotional blitz from the past few years that forced this change sooner, rather than later. Deer going to all draw is going to happen, it’ll just happen faster.
Sometimes I am glad I am older...case in point, I was lucky to have over 20 OTC NR winter archery deer hunts in AZ over the past 43 seasons. Sad that the younger generation will never have those and many other opportunities my generation had.
A lot of this undoubtably is the AZ resident population going from 2.8 million in 1980 to 7.3 million now. Certainly puts the pressure on, plus the NR resident interest in hunting Coues deer and javelina in a "dead" time of year unless you like ice fishing or coyote hunting up north.
And each time a state puts further limits on nonresident hunters it adds pressure to the remaining states that have opportunity hunts. It won’t be long and every western state will be implementing restrictions.