Assault Weapons Ban 1994-2004
General Topic
It did little to nothing to deter gun violence. Congress already knows this. Here's a link to a Congressional Research Service on Gun Control Legislation for the 113th Congress.
All good points Stix! The best solution is to make these “soft targets” much harder. We won’t be able to Legislate our way to safety. Stepped up and increased security is truly the common sense answer.
Too bad their goal is NOT to reduce gun violence...only legal gun ownership. Plenty of sensible solutions like hardened schools.
There is a problem with your thinking, you don't really know if it stopped any mass shooting. If you tighten up laws on assult rifles there is no way to tell how many mass shooting would be prevented or maybe none. The one thing that is pretty much a constant is almost all mass shootings have been done with assault rifles. I don't own a assult weapon or need one for the hunting I do. I know every parent putting their kids on the bus this morning we're worried that something bad could happen to them.
Simply my opinion, but I feel the answer is to put Christ, morals and common sense back in the home, schools and places of government.
Gun laws are a bandaid for larger problems. Almost all shooters are from single parent households and on SSRIs.
Schools are always a soft target because of funding and ideological concerns.
Medical care/insurance for lower middle class is difficult to afford for many. Mental health is a joke.
Demonizing guns won't change anything until some of the other 3 areas are improved. Those improvements are difficult, so nothing will change
How could this happen? I thought all schools were declared GUN FREE ZONES?!
Criminals know this.................
Yep. So either they can't read, or the they don't give a crap.
My money's on option 2!
How did they define an assault weapon during the ban?
Will: the gaping flaw in that logic is accepting that there is any such a thing as an "Assault Weapon". Just because a semi-auto rifle is black in color and/or has a pistol-grip stock, doesn't make it functionally any different than a standard sporting rifle which happens to have a semi-automatic action. But demonizing an ordinary tool is part of the package of lies and deception that progressives want you to swallow. Because they'll never confess that their own liberal agenda is highly suspect as one of the contributors to this crap continuing to happen.
Will , it doesn’t take a high cap mag or a semi auto rifle to kill lots of kids in a grade school. It can be done with a double barrelled shotgun very easily. It ain’t the gun, it’s the turd wielding it. All of the school shooters have mental problems that did not just magically surface the day of the shooting. They were there, but nobody did anything about it. They always find that evidence after the perp has spilled the blood.
What's an "assault rifle"?
In 1776 it was a smooth bore musket. In WWI it was a bolt action. In WWII there were many but the common issue was a Garand semi auto that held less than 10 rounds.
I assume you mean an AR semi auto with a 30 round mag. No, I don't need one for hunting. I also don't need free speech to tell my neighbor to " Have a nice day".
The right to bear arms the 2nd amendment refers to when explaining the Governments limitations isn't about hunting. It's about the citizenry being equipped to defend against other people, including military. Civilian AR type weapons aren't quite as capable as what standard issue for troops is but similar and that's what type of weapon the 2nd amendment is talking about.
Just like the first amendment. It's about protecting speech that is important to live in a free society. Speech that doesn't question authority or doesn't offend anyone isn't what required protection.
These school shootings are terrible.
The liberal Dems are focused on guns….and as we all know sane legal gun owners aren’t the problem.
Democrats refuse to address the real problems; Mental illness, gang violence and Illegal guns
I would bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of shootings in Chicago are with illegal guns. This Texas school shooter shot his own grandmother.
One hundred and fifteen years ago Teddy Rosevelt was hunting with a semi auto rifle. "Assault Rifle" was coined by the likes of CNN.
"The one thing that is pretty much a constant is almost all mass shootings have been done with assault rifles."
I don't think this is true Will. Actually I think it's handguns used for most "mass shootings"
Guns used in mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2022 Published by Statista Research Department, May 25, 2022 Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 146 different handguns being used in 98 incidents between 1982 and May 2022. These figures are calculated from a total of 128 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 77 percent of mass shootings.
The answer to this recurrent problem starts at home. The lack of the family unit, parenting, religion, respect, education , consequences....... I could go on and on. This is what needs to be explored and changed. Only then will we start to see improvements. For some reason, no one even wants to offer this idea as a "Problem". My guess is that it would make too many people feel bad about themselves and we all know society won't tolerate that today because "evertyhing will be ok"................
It’s not the weapon..................it’s the deranged lunatic behind the weapon that is the problem! See link for proof!
Hah. Funnily enough I bought my AR back way before ARs were so cool. During the assault weapons ban. I got the AR fever from a friend who's military, who had one. I bought it in 1999. THey were hard to get here then. I waited 6 months I believe. No gun shops carried them. Several said they'd never had one and never ordered one. Just a few years on, and they became very popular. I think I started the trend honestly. :)
My "post-ban" rifle, since it had a detachable extended magazine, and a pistol grip, could not have a telescoping stock (obviously not something that really makes it any more or less dangerous), or a bayonet lug (because we all need a bayonet on a RIFLE! Doh!). Again, not something that contributed for or against the danger of the weapon itself.
The assault weapons ban was a feel good measure that did nothing but line the pockets of the gun companies (which I have no problem with) who then made "post-ban" rifles. And it increased the value of "pre-ban" rifles and made them hard to find.
It just goes to show that the lawmakers and the media don't have any clue about these weapons and how they work.
Rueful story: I had to take a speech class in undergrad for my Business/Finance major. It was a small class in a school in Kansas City (a big university). I think there were 10 or so of us in the class. I gave one speech on how the gas operated system in an AR worked. This would have been in 2002 or 2003. I had blow up diagrams to show the system.
I did not pre-clear this topic with my professor. No one blinked. Professor liked it. I got an A on that speech :)
I wonder how fast they'd kick me out if I tried something like that today. . .
"The one thing that is pretty much a constant is almost all mass shootings have been done with assault rifles." . Nope pistols.
A semi auto is a semi auto.
If you wanted to reference 30rd mags I would as least partial credit.
With 10 rounders you may spend 2 seconds more to load the same.
Prosecute the parents for not reporting the little nut jobs....
I think the outcome yesterday would have been worse if the piece of trash would have used a short barreled shotgun and 00 Buck in a 12 gauge. Banning "assault" weapons and creating new laws will not help anything. People like that dont obey the laws we have now. Why would they obey any new laws put in place? Makes no sense to me.
When I was a kid in the 70's-80's if you did something dumb you risked being sent away to a mental institute. That was enough to deter most of the youth population from doing stupid things. I dont believe those places exist any longer.
Now, I have, but not typically, hunted with my AR. It's a .308. So, why not? I have a 4 round magazine that I use for that purpose. When I hurt my shoulder, that was the only recoil I could stand. Bake, when I was in college in the late 70s I took a speech class. I actually spoke about gun control-imagine that. I took a cap starter pistol and fired it in the classroom stating that that could have just as easily been a real gun. No worries. The professor actually liked how I got everyone's attention. Today? Swat team time.
The libs can bluster all they want about gun control. The largest growth in gun ownership is suburban women who are afraid of criminals. They ain't supporting giving up their guns.
Bad people will always do bad things no matter the weapon
Inshart: corrected, thanks.
Obiden's anti gun stooge from TX publicly jumped into Gov. Abbotts report on the incident today and made a complete ass of himself and interferred with the entire proceedings.
Mental health = not enough ass whipping coming up and lack of discipline
Bunch of bull. Call it what it is, a bunch of sorry a** derelicts
Mental health = not enough ass whipping coming up and lack of discipline
Bunch of bull. Call it what it is, a bunch of sorry a** derelicts
Sadly, parents are *afraid* to 'apply leather to backside as needed' nowadays.
Thought I would never say it but Im all for bringing back the Assault Riffle ban and similar type weapons and high capacity mags. If you cant get by with 5 rounds find another sport. I own and hunt pigs with one but can easily find an alternative. It won't stop the killings but might limit the deaths. That being said mental health is the route of all these shootings but no one seems to want to address it.
Think of what someone could do with a 6 bottle carrier with 6 Molotov cocktails? The problem is moral decay. Constant bombardment of violent bloody TV movies, video games that are super violent, no father figures, no parent supervision, the removal of any religious beliefs in schools and the list goes on. When our kids were home we looked through binders, backpacks and drawers. There are parents that believe this is wrong. That’s just irresponsible parenting. I would venture to say that almost all of these mass under 18 murderers parents didn’t check cell phones/computers, all internet things they communicate on. Kids are dumb about posting things online. Never heard of any call to ban cars when some nut decides to run their car through a crowd. The first thing politicians call for is we need more mental health services. My wife is a licensed therapist. She’s had a couple teens that had all the red flags on being a killer. She notified the principle of the schools. They then notified security to be aware of him.
Freedoms are often abused. This is one of the harder ones to swallow. But, a 2nd Amendment is more important then any one person or a group of kids. Lots more kids died ensuring we were able to have the 2nd Amendment.
Please understand I’m not trying to come off as callous or insensitive. My heart is broken over this. But, it’s important to understand the reality of this. And, how to best combat this.
You don’t even have to agree on how to best protect our children from madmen, to absolutely, by default, agree that prevention is the best key. There are answers to this that would present much better results.
Anyways, we have to believe in sound reasoning and the Bill of Rights. Most people proclaim that but don’t truly know the difference in legislation defining governments role. And legislation that gives the citizens of that country their rights.
So, we must not cut of our nose to spite our face. We must address the situation from a position that puts this country into consideration. The number one consideration.
Folks, we’d better get busy legislating nothing but more freedoms. The freedoms to protect ourselves from these situations. And, The freedom to make responsible decisions that will side in that.
And nothing resembling any of what we all can agree on, is leaving the 2nd Amendment alone. I’m sure we can all agree on that.
Will Tell, please tell us what an assault weapon is.
Addressing the moral decay, as mentioned, is the answer. This encompasses many things; tolerance for your neighbor, resepct for religious belief, respect for all stages and aspects of human life.
The event that started it all was the ludicrous and insane decision of Roe v Wade....
I plan on taking a black bear this year with my AR with a 300 Blackout cartridge just because. And it’s unreal that my AR hasn’t jumped up and killed numerous people by itself. After all that is what Gun violence is.
Sadly, parents are *afraid* to 'apply leather to backside as needed' nowadays.
Sadly, I think this is a big part of it. Basic discipline is gone from most house holds now and it’s a snow ball effect.
I like the term "Assault Rifle" because its the rifle I use to keep from being assaulted!! If I was going to be attacked by deer, I would select the proper deer rifle :-)
Any claim that banning assault rifles will lower gun deaths is ludicrous on its face... unless you think a psycho killer won't find an assault rifle and give up his life of crime to go to trade school and make an honest living. Of course not! He will just grab a pistol, or rifle or shotgun, or just mow kids over with a car in the parking lot. We need to stop the "Will to Kill" and stop playing political games with the eventual weapon used.
Baltimore passed some kind of assault rifle law after Sandy Hook. At that time we had about 300 gun deaths a year, and not a single one with an assault rifle. Politics. Sheeeesh!!! And all these bans grandfather existing rifles, so you have some 50 million already on the street and no ban changes that equation... unless you are suggesting federal gestapo are going to start kicking in doors to confiscate???
Remember that the Virginia Tech shooter only used a glock pistol and 10 round mags, and managed to fire 200 shots before cops arrived. The record for the "mad-minute" (using an old WW2 Lee Enfield bolt rifle shooting a 24" target at 300 yards) is 38 hits in 60 seconds. And Jerry Miculek can fire 8 shots in ONE second using a revolver. So stop with the assault weapon hysteria as if its going to be some big game changer!
My mother inlaw is a big gun control advocate. 2 yrs ago my daughter was 16, my daughter told her grandmother during a gun control discussion .." grandma, you are assuming evil people will obey the law".
Criminals will find a way to do harm. As Kurt Russell once said, we need to turn it around and make them worry about what we gonna do to them..the criminal that is. 2 of the most dangerous places you can be is in a combat zone and a gun free zone. Best thing to stop bad people with guns is good people with guns.
NYC, Chicago, ect, are prime examples how little gun control effects real world safety.
An 'assault weapon' is anything used to assault another. If I start a fight with you, and punch your nose, I used an 'assault fist.' If you defend yourself, you use a 'defense fist.'
If I assault you with a knife, a rock, a stick, a gun, those are 'assault weapons.' If you defend yourself with a can of Mace, a baseball bat or a 30-30, those are 'defense weapons.'
If you buy an AR or AK or a shotgun with the _intent_ of harming someone it is an 'assault' weapon. If you buy it with the intent of defending yourself, your home and family, it is a defensive weapon.
I think the point is clear, it is the _intent of the user_ that determines whether a weapon is 'assault' or defensive.'
On the military level, the Army may 'assault' an enemy stronghold to 'defend' the nation. Their weapons could be considered both 'assault' and 'defensive', but that's not a concern for most civilians, is it?
" I know every parent putting their kids on the bus this morning we're(were) worried that something bad could happen to them."
A week ago, I was in the store at the checkout line and thought to myself, look around for the nut who wants to kill people, as I fingered the gun in my pocket.
“The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams. Moral, religious, packing heat and ready to survive in the godless society around me.
I find it interesting most LE people push for more security at schools and believe it's the total answer. The odds of one security officer being in the right place at the right time are miniscule. Maybe they would be but most likely not and they're likely to be the first target if it's known they're there. Teachers carrying seems a better solution to me then giving another salary to someone else.
Pop-r, reducing the issue to a salary speaks loudly to "how much" you care to protect what has become a target of choice.
I've always marveled at how corporations think so little of the people who feed and protect them as they consider the salaries of kitchen help and security guards.
Teachers carrying is a bad idea. Too many bodies all over the place on all sides. It would only be a matter of time before a teachers gun was taken by an angry student.
My wife is a public school teacher. There is no way she would ever carry in class. A locked, and bolted down gun safe in the classroom would be a better option IMO. during a lockdown now, all she has to defend her kids with is a fire extinguisher.
Our school board terminated the school officer a few years ago due to expense. When they remodeled, they also rejected the secure vestibule with ballistic glass due to expense. You have to buzz in now during the school day but,... before the first bell and after the final bell all the doors are unlocked. Any whack-job could enter the school in the morning with the students, or at the end of the day when all the kids are in the hallways.
Unfortunately there's no way to stop these acts once someone has decided to do it. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Each one of US needs to take a good hard look in the mirror and decide if we're going to be part of the solution, or part of the problem. Do you accept people as they are? or do you want to make them like you? Do you ever look down on people who are different from you? do you make fun of them? Do you hate people who don't follow your beliefs?
If the answer to any of those last three questions is yes, you are not part of the solution.
I think mandating 'teacher carry' is a bad idea. Give motivated teachers the ok to carry. But when I recall the teachers I had, I really wouldn't expect most of them to engage in a firefight. A few, yeah.
I guess I'm old, but when I was in high school, the majority of the male teachers I had were WW2 vets, and I can ASSURE you they would have stepped up!!!
Well, we don't have any WW2 vets in the schools anymore do we.
Never said we did. Just pointing out how far our testosterone levels have declined.
Good timing on this one being near the NRA convention in the same state. SUV driving through a parade wouldn't have near the media coverage.
x-man,
Your determination on the difference between who is the solution and who is the problem is flawed. People who stand for nothing will fall for anything. Character counts, always.
Character always counts. That's my point exactly.
Character doesn't mean forcing your beliefs on others. Hitler tried that...
Of course not mandatory. Several in every school who choose to do so though. If you're too scared then don't. It's that simple. If you think a student is going to take your gun then you shouldn't carry. Some should.
I think we need to focus our efforts to prevent child deaths in order of actual risk. Think about this....
The #1 cause of death for children ages 1-14 is motor vehicle crashes. Child safety seats and mandatory seat belts is a good start but what else can be done?
The #2 cause of death is drowning. We could easily ban swimming pools. We tried mandatory fencing and pool covers. It just isn't working and kids keep dying. Who are these maniacs with pool death traps in their back yards?? You can cool off with a perfectly safe semi-automatic yard sprinkler! And there is no constitutional right to own a swimming pool. This will save more young lives than all school shootings combined. :-)
There are 50 million kids in school every year. The flu is a far greater killer than school shootings. Peanut butter allergies kill more kids every year. By the overall math school shootings don't rank anywhere near the top, but these sensless killings need to stop... we CAN and SHOULD do better.
Media not publishing name and picture would help.
Psychos killing themselves want to go viral like their predecessors.
"18 year old shooter" no fame. You can still release motive etc..
However the media won't self censor to save a life. They want to claim the 1st amendment for them but not social media where they want to censor competition.
All political gaming....
Having a gun and having good intentions for using it is not enough - not nearly enough. You also need the training and discipline to know how and when to use it. And the NRA course is totally inadequate for that purpose. With the right comes responsibility. Someone mentioned drinking and driving, the same law should apply to drinking and carrying for instance.
The same could be said for becoming a parent. No one is born with the knowledge and discipline to raise a kid. So before being allowed to have a kid, maybe parents - two of them - should have to go to school.
As for religion, that so many of you want to shove down everybody's throat; why are you so concerned with gun rights and not the right to not live in a theocracy? That is the main reason Europeans came to the "new world" to begin with.
I would be interested to know how many of these attacks there are as a percentage of total population, now and in the past. Are there really that many more, or just more people. Maybe too many people.
When I was in high school in rural Connecticut, many of us had guns in our cars on school grounds. I NEVER heard about a school shooting back then. So what is different now? The two major things I can think of are way more people, and the internet.
Simple people, on both sides of the isle, look for simple answers, or just argue what suits them best. We have a problem in this country. It won't be solved easily, and it won't even be addressed without real discussions and commitment to find solutions. And a solution that brings these whackos to justice after the fact is not nearly as desirable as preventing them from acting in the first place.
I fi d it interesting that everything one of these horrible incidents take place. It's we need " sensible gun laws" but no real definition of what is "sensible". The democrats controlled the house and senate under Obama. They didn't pass a law. Why? I think it has become a buzz phrase just something to rally the folks who support them. The constitution is clear on the right to keep and bear arms. If a law was passed it won't stand assuming the courts do their jobs. States on the other can impose restriction and have like California, new York and others. Hasn't proven to be successful.
There are more than enough gun laws on the books!!!! They just need to be enforced and the bleeding hearts and the idiotic judges need to stick to them.. If it is on the books that you flash a gun during a robbery and never fire it of even threaten someone with it, if the law calls for 5 to 7 years, than thats it. 5-7 years in prison, no getting out early no reduced sentence, no nothing!!! Today if you actually shoot someone during a felony guys get 1-3 years sometimes, hell they should be locked up and throw away the key. Here in NY we have a law release with no bail thing going on, so a guy knocks the hell out of his girlfriend appears in court and an hour later is released with an apperance ticket. The next call the police get is the guy just killed the women he assaulted 2 hrs before!! Judges and lawyers need to get their head out of their asses and folllow the rule of the law and not plea bargain everything!!! Shawn
As far as new gun laws go, you need to read my initial post. We already have enough laws on the books that do nothing to deter determined criminals. The idea that another law will make a difference when a shooter ignored the murder law in the first place is ridiculous. The difference I perceive as to now vs earlier is a breakdown in our society in general. Family values are out. Religious beliefs are out. Law enforcement is out. Patriotism is out. Service is out. Courtesy is out. The idea of equality among all people is out. A difference of opinion is out. Self-responsibility is out. Individualism is out. Self-reliance is out. Belief in yourself is out. Self-defense is out. So, if all of these values are out, where is a person's foundation, his moral compass? These values are being actively routed out by what appears to be an insignificant but vocal minority. And, we're letting them do it. It's little wonder that the chaos is happening all around us. Folks have little to no foundation to stand on in a storm and nothing to support them. So, they follow the storm. These values are actively discouraged and not being taught, instilled, or passed on to our children. That's what we need to get back to (IMO), not another prohibitive law that won't accomplish a thing. We need to look at the cause and find a way to address it. I don't think we've done that at all, and I no longer believe there is an interest in doing so. Instead, everything is politicized. If we dare adhere to these values, then we're all deplorables, racists, bigots, and white supremists holding on to our God, guns and bibles. Sorry brothers, I'll keep my faith, guns, and bible close at hand, and I'll pass on these values where and when I can. To each his own. I'm not here to judge, but what are "we" thinking?
The idiot just stated "the 2nd Amendment is not absolute." You can't make this crap up.
No Daddy present, mom is a druggie, living with grandma and he shoots her. Lots of warning signals and it still happened. Unemployed drop out, how did he get the cash to buy two ARs and 400rounds?
Because he had a job at Wendy's in Uvalde
"Here in NY we have a law release with no bail thing going on..."
Here is a prime example of simplistic thinking. The reason these types of laws are being contemplated is because they're discriminatory. Not every one has the same capacity to post bail, and is it really fair if only the rich guy gets to get out and kill his girl friend? If the crime is serious enough to require incarceration, then EVERYONE should wait in jail until trial and there would be no reason for bail for anything. If we did that, we better be willing to pay for a lot more lock-ups, court houses, and judges. What's fair and just?
Most, if not all, these mass shooting are one-off events. It's the first, and only time this particular person went on a rampage. So what should we do? Lock up anyone who might do it? Based on what? Public comments? Private comments? Because they look evil? What is the solution?
Lawdog and others. If a bible works for you, great! Should we require everyone to attend church on Sundays? Just the church you approve of of course. But then more mayhem has been committed in the name of EVERY established religion throughout history than any other single reason. Just another way to designate 'us from them'. I'm not interested.
I love all the posts about how we need to respect the fellow human being more in this thread the TX shooting thread. I do truly believe that is the root of a lot of the issues in the world.
The ironic part is, if you spend much time here at all you know there is very little tolerance or respect from quite a few posters to someone they disagree with. There are an awful lot of bullies here. This is the same type of behavior that likely pushed this nut job off the ledge.
I work with an awful lot of people everyday that I'm quite confident I don't have much in common with from a political standpoint. But I get along with all of them because we need to respect each other regardless of what our views are.
Lawdog and others. If a bible works for you, great! Should we require everyone to attend church on Sundays? Just the church you approve of of course. But then more mayhem has been committed in the name of EVERY established religion throughout history than any other single reason. Just another way to designate 'us from them'. I'm not interested.
Boy Zeik, you missed the point entirely. I didn't mention any particular religious sect, just religion in general. The irony of being an atheist or a non-believer in anything is that God is still looking after you. If a person lacks the foundational values I mentioned, what does that person have? I'd venture to postulate that most of the mass murderers are deeply troubled individuals who lack many of those foundational values, or they are just certifiably insane. You ask a lot of questions. What's your view on how, as a society, we got here.
JayZ , I agree. Our society is less tolerant than ever.
We need to address the breakdown of the family unit in America. We need to address the lack of support for mental illness in America. We need to address anger management in this country.
We need to teach our sons to be good fathers. https://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistic
Always funny to hear how teachers need super training.
The shooters don't get any.
Put teachers willing through a basic course and put those keyless lockboxes with pistol in each classroom.
I think the point some miss, or ignore, is that since 1960 or so there has been a steady decline in church attendance, with a significant drop around 2000. Say what you will, I believe there was more of a moral center in '60 when you could buy a gun thru the mail, then there is now.
Teach kids there is no absolutes, no sense of right and wrong, moral equivalancy, that life is disposable and cheap....and there's gonna be consequences.
So if they take away sane legal gun owners guns....then this guy would have killed a lot more people; Charlotte observer, may 26th
A man who was firing at people attending a birthday/graduation party with an AR-15-style rifle was shot to death by a bystander, according to West Virginia police. The victim, later identified as 37-year-old Dennis Butler, parked his vehicle outside of an apartment complex in Charleston, West Virginia, at around 10:45 p.m. on Wednesday, May 25, and began shooting at the party, according to a news release from the Charleston Police Department. Some people had approached Butler earlier in the night to complain that he was speeding in the area while children were around. When Butler began shooting, a bystander drew a pistol and fired back, fatally wounding him, the release says.
Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article261819625.html#storylink=cpy
The only question that needs to be asked is what has changed, and then focus on that. Anyone that stands in the way of fixing what changed is an obstacle and needs to be removed as part of the solution.
Losing any life is tragic but if you look at the big picture mass shootings aren’t even close to the top of fatalities in the U.S. probably looking at .0000005%. Obviously not accurate but you get the point.
Lawdog, sorry if I missed your point, but you also missed mine. Morality has nothing to do with religion. A person can have a moral code without religion, and not have one with it.
As to your question, I already answered it. The two main things that have changed since I was a kid are a LOT more people on the planet, and the internet. Two things that are not likely to change. They both have far reaching effects in human relations.
Seems to that since the one in Columbine CO that ALL of these are copy cats. Keep it off the 24 hr. solid TV.
guys I've spent literally 10 hours the last 2 days on a liberal forum discussing this - gun control etc
I let my NRA membership expire - and I signed up for 5 years again today and, I joined Gun Owners of America as well
9 out of 10 liberals want to take AR15's and semi-auto rifles and then, they're going to take handguns next and that's just what I've seen. I've been called some hateful mean things because I'm unyielding
Today, I said hey, IF I said I'd agree to an AR15 ban, what would ya'll give? I was told nothing - they're going to steam roll and take away what they want and they don't need me to agree, nothing partisan anymore
ok, fine ..... understand ya'll, if we're not putting money into fighting for gun rights, anti-gun people WILL WIN
^^^ only because they know gun people adhere to the law while they don't, the very reason anybody with any sense would never yield...
I do know that believing or expecting a government to solve this is misplaced faith.
Ziek, no worries. The gist of the posts here is we're all pretty much saying the same thing, just differently. Now, we have republicans jumping on the gun control bandwagon. I'm not hearing anything directed at any perceived underlying cause. Many of us here predate any type of gun control, me included. Mass shootings happened in the past and have increased over the years. The link shows a surprising upward trend even in the face rising gun control legislation. I don't believe one more law will make a dent. I'd be interested to see any studies as to why these occurred and what motivated or was wrong with the shooters.
I still say the case of these psycho mass shootings is the COMBINATION of both brain altering medication and excessive murder video gaming.
In the last 20 years, show me even ONE of these mass shooters that wasn't taking some kind of brain altering drug AND playing hours of murder video games teaching them to kill the most humans possible for high score!!
NRA convention in TX this weekend…no guns are permitted inside the convention.
“Attendees are prohibited from bringing "firearms, firearm accessories, knives, and other items," including backpacks and selfie sticks.“
Unfreakingbelievable
KS You should remember those rules from last year. Is it going to keep you from attending?
KS, I'm not surprised. Once folks are inside, they don't know who they are and what some nut job may do. Beto's going to be there with who knows who. Logic, rationality and clear thinking will not be words of the day from that side. But I'll bet "baby killer" and other similar words will be. And as hell bent as these folks seem to be on getting guns from law abiding citizens, I wouldn't put it past them for one of them to start shooting in the name of the cause of gun control.
“I still say the case of these psycho mass shootings is the COMBINATION of both brain altering medication and excessive murder video gaming.”
I often wonder if some of these young disturbed kids are the result of their mothers drug use prior to giving birth. The latest drug craze of crack, fentanyl, mollie, etc. can be having a huge impact on child birth. More so than booze and smoking ever did.
I have no problem with venues being gun free - BUT - they should actually be made gun free. Putting up a sign doesn't make a place gun free! A gun free area should have the same security as an airport AND a secure storage area for your legally carried weapon between the entrance and the check point; all of them, airports, courtrooms, hospitals, schools, every place you can't carry. If they don't, they have already taken our right to carry. Do you leave your gun in your car? If so, your not free to carry as you walk to the venue. And I don't like trusting my gun in an unsecured vehicle. And if it's stolen there, can I be held responsible? Or do you leave it all the way back home? Some places you can just choose to not attend. Others, not so much. Can I choose to not attend jury duty because they don't even provide secure parking? Why hasn't this been addressed?
“NRA convention in TX this weekend…no guns are permitted inside the convention. “Attendees are prohibited from bringing "firearms, firearm accessories, knives, and other items," including backpacks and selfie sticks.“
Unfreakingbelievable”
This is a standard order from the secret service for all details they are involved with. Trump as well as others that will be attending have secret service details.
Gun free zones are not really gun free except for the law abiding citizen. The criminals don't really care that they're committing a federal felony. Ziek, I'm in and out of courthouses all the time. If it's a brief visit, I'll secure my carry weapon in the truck. If I'm going to be there a significant period of time, I'll leave it home. I don't like it, but, like you, I'm uncomfortable leaving it in the truck all day in a parking lot. I've had a pistol stolen from my truck while it was in my driveway. That was on me. How I got it back and what it went through while in the hands of criminals (drug dealers) is a whole other story.
I guess I don’t follow the gun lobby logic. I thought the way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun. Plenty of good people there that know how to shoot. Why ban guns there? Can’t they just arm the speakers and moderators. This is what they tell us we should do with teachers. If it works so well why don’t they practice what they preach? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
The gun lobby lost me years ago when they push hard in KS to allow open carry on college campuses but banned it from the state capital and congress building.
Carry is allowed at NRA. As stated above, segments and areas where the Secret Service controls security are when you can't.
Surprising in today's America where the venue and insurance companies have control over things.
"I thought the way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun."
Wrong! A good person with a gun is not enough. They have to be properly trained, and have the discipline to react in accordance with that training in a highly stressful situation.
A few months back in Colorado a good Samaritan shot an active shooter before the cops arrived. When the police got there, the "good guy" still had a gun in hand. Guess what? The cops shot and killed him. If he had been properly trained, or if he was and just didn't follow that training in the heat of the moment, he would have known that when the cops arrive on scene in that situation, you better not look like the bad guy. That can be the most dangerous time to be a "good guy".
As to the gun ban at the NRA convention; if Trump is uncomfortable with an armed audience, he can always stay home.
The anti gun crowd and media, one in the same, wanted the NRA to cancel the convention because of the shooting in Texas. Well, I don't recall after the nut job drove a car through the parade in Wisconsin a few months back, killing many and injuring others, not one person called for the auto shows to be cancelled. The reason we have kids shooting kids is because there are video games out there that these kids play for hours and hours daily and it warps their brain to the destruction of others. The main reason we see these mass shootings is because of the deteriorating culture towards religion and kids don't grow up being taught to love their neighbor. Instead they are brain washed to hate and the liberal agenda is front and center. Maybe that's why liberals want to blame a tool rather then the real cause . Yes, a gun is a tool and it can be used for good and bad, depends on the user, kids these days don't know how to deal with rejection and act out like the video games they play. Sad, and banning guns or magazines isn't going to stop it. Also, the media has focused in on and exploits these shootings, but I don't see them focused in on Chicago when 80 people are shot in a weekend, stay tune this holiday weekend for the numbers, it's going to be hot and the gang bangers will be out .
"I guess I don’t follow....logic."
There, I fixed it for you.
How kids are raised plays the most important role of outcomes. People do not believe in committed marriage anymore. Women and men sleeping around, multiple kids with multiple fathers. These kids grow up with no direction, raised by people who aren't their parents. In my 16 years working ER, I've seen this paradigm shift widen, more kids with psych issues, acting out of control. I've noticed young children who need procedures are far less likely to freak out if their father is in the room. Single mothers seem helpless, and the child runs the show. I've had to do conscious sedations for the most minimally invasive procedures because the child was acting so horribly. These single parents are so worn out and tired of fighting, they let the kid do whatever they want. Murderous video games and like-minded loser friends become the norm. When I was in school, we'd beat the shit out of each other and be friends afterwards. Now, you punch someone in the face and you get arrested. Pent up anger turns to unresolved hatred, then people bring guns to work and school.
Stix what's your solutions since you brought it up! FYI I had a son at Columbine shooting and I'm lucky to have him still. Me personnel I like to see the age limit raise to 25 to purchased weapons and ammo. Sticker backgrounds checks. I still owns guns even after the shootings but they are totally lock up and no ones the codes except me. I've had my son learn and handle weapons and enrolled him in guns safety classes. There are times i wish teachers were arm but i don't think that a good solution neither. I want to hear what's your solutions instead of complaining. I'm getting tired of you all complaining and not helping. You all just turn your heads the other way and just move on like nothing happen. There as to be a common ground for everyone somewhere.
We have to acknowledge the fact (despite exceptions) 18 year old boys are not as mature as in the past. It may be time to treat them as nonadults.
Than if 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to own a firearms, they aren’t responsible enough to drive or vote.
And it’s time we protect our kids as well as those that use this tragedy for political purposes. That means personnel that don’t cower while kids are executed.
"Than if 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to own a firearms, they aren’t responsible enough to drive or vote."
No argument here. Maybe it shouldn't be any specific age. Maybe they should be treated as adults when they start living as adults - living on their own and paying their own way.
Lb shooter said "The main reason we see these mass shootings is because of the deteriorating culture towards religion and kids don't grow up being taught to love their neighbor. "
I see a shit ton of "love thy neighbor" here on this site lol. Effin hypocrites.
About the worst law someone could break is MURDER. So why in hell would someone who's evil enough to break that law give a rat's patoot about any firearm law???
Laws only work for honest people. One day people will figure that out!!
The benefits of freedom outweigh the risks that come with it.
More gun laws are a terrible idea. But even if we go full China on oppressing people's rights, we have years of getting the laws passed and confiscating the 400 million guns in the US. Not to mention getting through a possible Civil war.
Finding and fixing whatever is broken in our society may be almost impossible. Even if we could agree on the causes and how to change things, that will take generations.
What we can do is be better prepared. We can't rely on first responders to arrive. They need to be there when it happens. We need deter evil/insane people from attacking our most vulnerable and we need make schools terrible options for the next wacko to go out in a blaze of cowardice killing kids.
"When danger is imminent, the police are minutes away."
Ultimately, YOU are responsible for the safety of you and your loved ones. Our founding fathers understood this REALLY well. Hence, the 2A.
So when you guys say minimum age of 21 or 25 to buy a gun, do you mean an AR type gun? Or any gun?
Stix im glad your Niece is safe and sound. You have not answer whats your soluations. What Common sense needs prevails? Explain to me because i dont understand. 12yards good question? What do you think?
According the Pamela "Word Salad" Harris.....
“You know what an assault weapon is? You know how an assault weapon was designed?” ?Harris said. “It was designed for a specific purpose – to kill a lot of human beings quickly."
ANY FIREARM IS DESIGNED TO KILL QUICKLY!!!!!!!!! THAT'S WHY THEY WERE INVENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! UFB!!!
"f you cant get by with 5 rounds find another sport."
To this and all similar comments, it isn't about hunting or sport. Our framers didn't write the 2A because the deer were coming.
I had a constitutional law professor long ago that often stated "Once you let the camel get its nose under the tent, you may as well let him in." There is a constant effort to chip away at our constitutional rights-all in the name of the public good (as defined by the gov't or a vocal minority). We need to stand up and defend our rights, or they will be taken from us either voluntarily or involuntarily.
Goelk, I think it would be a terrible thing to restrict the age to buy a shotgun or rifle for hunting or target practice. I personally think limiting the age to purchase an AR to 21 might not be a bad thing. Age 25 seems excessive and unnecessary.
Evil will find a way, look up the Bath Michigan school tragedy of may 18 1927.
I'd be fine 21 to buy any firearm and 21 to vote. FIX two problems with the same solution. But then you would have to raise the age to join the military, and they already can't meet their quotas.... thanks Joe Biden!!
3 strikes-your-out rule. If you have any combination of 3 murder, rape, child molesting = death sentence
Mandatory sentences for violent crime. No more soft DA's handing out reduced sentences.
Prisons can't be enjoyable criminal trade schools. No more gym weights to build bigger more dangerous criminals. No more TVs in prison either. Just books.
Restore cash-bail laws. Restore stop-and-frisk laws. Prosecute all firearm straw purchases and fraudulent gun purchases. How did Hunter Biden get a gun as a known drug addict?? Where did that gun go??
But Democrats do not really WANT to solve the gun/crime problem because it would means having to lock up mostly Democrats in Democrat cities who commit the vast majority of gun crimes every year. Ain't gonna happen....
Dano don’t feel for Robert’s he was the deciding factor that gave us Obama care .
Stix I like the idea of Israel's and 12yards I like age 21 is good too.
They call it “Protecting the Children Act. Of course it doesn’t mention anything about protecting the black children that are shot every weekend in Chicago by other blacks. Below is a compilation of the suggestions from the lefties as to how to fix the problem. Obviously, there is only ONE solution. I can only imagine if you voted for this train wreck, it’s because you agree with these idiots and their ignorance.
- Nina Jankowicz claimed Thursday the DHS Disinformation Governance Board she formerly headed is supposed to deal with disinformation that could inspire mass shootings, such as the recent shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas.
- AOC-'The vast majority of mass shooters are young men that have a very troubling history with women almost every single time.
- Whoopi Goldberg: If women can’t have abortions we’re ‘going to come for’ guns, ‘get ready to give them up’
She concluded her rant, stating, "Well, I think it’s time for the people to say, we’re going to take this to the courts, and we’re going to make you give these guns up because you don’t need to have them."
"I swear to god if I see another Republican senator talk about their heart being broken, I’ma go punch somebody," Goldberg said.
- Kieth Olberman - "You’re right Loesch. These rules ARE inadequate. To put you Conservatives out of the School Children Killing business, America is going to have to take all your f---ing long guns."
- liberal university professor Peniel Joseph -Joseph claimed violence against minorities, legislation restricting abortions, as well as "voting rights," backlash against teaching of race related subjects in schools, and resistance to immigration were forms of "political violence that has horribly weakened our country." "The same party that is advocating placing control of women's bodies in the hands of local and state governments decries any such restrictions on the rights of citizens to own, operate and utilize weapons of war," he claimed.
- Bob Costas-"What we always hear in the aftermath of this from certain quarters on the spectrum: Let’s talk about mental health. Let’s talk about the police response. Let’s talk about security at the perimeter of schools. All of those are reasonable things to talk about, but there is one thing that's always off the table, and that’s common sense gun safety measures," Costas said.
- Espoused columnist Christine Emba wrote that America's 'fetishized' and 'misguided' ideals of liberty and individualism contributed to the Texas school shooting and other gun crime.
- K Harris- "You know what an assault weapon is? You know how an assault weapon was designed? It was designed for a specific purpose – to kill a lot of human beings quickly. An assault weapon is a weapon of war with no place, no place in a civil society."
- Emma Coleman CNN- America has failed to find a way to stem the carnage associated with the proliferation of powerful automatic firearms of the sort used in both mass shootings, which occurred just a week and half apart. With respect to shooters spurred by White supremacism, this country more than has its hands full. These individuals are like members of a violent gang or foreign terrorist cell: The young racist haters "prove" they belong by exaggerating their power to act to defend the group credo, like members of an exclusive and malign club.
- Biden turned heads Memorial Day when he claimed that the most popular caliber of gun in America was "high caliber" and that there was "no rational basis" for Americans to use the firearms for protecting themselves or even for "hunting."
Yeah, so what about my 16 year old's semi auto shotgun he uses for ducks? That's where I'm not on board with all semi auto long guns. Can he not use it anymore? This is the problem. I'm not in favor of limiting a kid's ability to buy a semi auto shotgun for hunting. That's dumb.
What about the very common semi-auto .22s? Marlins, Rugers, etc. I grew up with a Marlin semi-auto .22 almost permanently attached to my hand.
Ghost guns? Prior to 1968 serial numbers were not the law, does that mean any that were not numbered Ghost Guns? That could be millions of good usable older firearms. The constitution still allows individuals to make their own firearms.
"The constitution still allows individuals to make their own firearms." Can you tell me which article or amendment you are speaking of? The second amendment only speaks of "keep and bear".
Good article why these boys turn into shooters on Unherd.com, at link
Taking a bunch of law abiding citizens guns away might address 3% of the problem.
The folks at my link that study this stuff say that almost all of these shooters are essentially the same. Thats a HUGE part of the problem.
If they really wanted to stop these shootings; 1) lock the school. Reports that a Uvalde teacher broke protocol and left one of the doors open. 2) Harden the school. Limit entrance and exits and harden the access to the school itself with cameras and someone monitoring them. Have an alarm and shelter in place protocol.
3) Stop publishing the mentally ill shooters picture everywhere. Instead of traveling on about guns why not explain how weak and pathetic these people are for doing what they do. Vilify them in the media as spineless and a worthless lump of human being.
My point, there are many things they can do to stop these shootings if they wanted to…but the Democrats have a woody for guns….
To me you can not have it both ways..... When there was the draft, I could go to war, but could not drink. hmmmmm I joined the service to do my bit, and it matured me alot,,,,, there I could buy beer, on base and smokes.......................
Today I would say, alot of 18 year olds are still children in many ways, the way they are raised, by parents. So I would have no issue limiting them..............
However if your in the armed services, then all bets are off. If you are in the service, you should be able to have not limit, on buying a gun, or smokes etc. I mean you can have your guts splattered somewhere in the world, but you can not buy a semi auto rifle, or smokes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, thats ludicrous
So....some of you want to ban ARs because they can kill a lot of people. Have you ever used a shotgun?? OBVIOUSLY not, because what some wacko could do with an unplugged shotgun is at least as gruesome as what an AR can do.
Once again, the problem is NOT the gun, but with the HUMAN in control of it. How difficult is this to understand???
And what about the wacko in Waukesha Wisconsin who ran through a Christmas parade and ran over/killed 5 people? Should we ban cars too?
Woods Walker you are spot on regarding shotguns. Mag extension and buckshot would be a slaughter. Which means if ARs are banned, repeating shotguns will be next as soon as they become the fad mass killing weapon.
My home defense weapon of choice is a 12 gauge loaded with 00Buckshot, and with a cylinder choke. The original "point and click interface". No aiming involved.
The problem is our Idiot leaders spouting off about how much they don't know about Guns...Or anything for that matter...
Joe says that the 9mm is the super powerful killer, just shows what he really knows or is fed.
Joe is as big (or bigger), a clueless moron as Harris is, except he doesn't keep repeating the same phrase over and over again, with that childlike..."I said right, didn't I mommy? Do I get a cookie now?"...look on her face. The other idiocy that the gun grabbers love to spout is that, "We have to ban clips that hold more than X number of rounds! Yeah! That'll make us safe!" So I can still have several clips that hold less than the number of the "weapons of war designed to kill" clips? Have ANY of these ignorant imbeciles ever shot a clip fed weapon and changed a clip? Unbelievable!
I doubt these two 18 year old boys who committed the recent mass shootings identified themselves as a Democrat or a Republican. We can discuss mental health, video games, lack of parenting all we want. However it boils down to one thing, ACCESS to a weapon that has the capacity to kill or maim a maximum number of people in a very short period of time. The usual banter of 2nd amendment right's, the blame game, the political rhetoric, or the foolish bravado, or blind bullying will accomplish nothing ! What is apparent is we have a problem where people who should not have access to a lethal weapon do yet there are many people who oppose any rational effort to prevent these folks from having access. (If you are in disagreement with this statement just look the many post's presented here) We need/must ask ourselves when is enough enough ? Is there anything wrong with a 30 day wait for a thorough background check or a special background check for anyone wishing to purchase an AR type of rifle to be thoroughly vetted and cleared before purchasing this type of weapon ? To be 21 years of age to purchase an automatic rifle (AR) or automatic high capacity handgun ? Where is the COMMON SENSE and the BACKBONE to do what is only right to PREVENT the SLAUGHTER of innocent children.
* As a foot note I am a Great Grandfather 79 years of age, a Veteran, a Voter, a hunter of 70 years and hopefully with a little common sense left within me. I surely do not want my grand children or my great grandchildren or any other child to be shot and killed because we did not have the courage to do what is the right thing to do.
Don Harris Buc i 313
Buc, who will be doing the "vetting"? "Slaughter of innocent children". You do realize that the killing of children extends beyond the school walls. Chicago is a perfect and not the only example. I could add NYC, DC, Atlanta, Philly, and LA. All by the way democratically run cities. Do you have a voice for them? There is/was something systemically wrong with the kids that did the shootings in Buffalo and Texas. But, not all of the "mass" shooting were committed by teenagers. All had something wrong with them that let their mind justify their actions. I can't wrap my brain around it. I'm not fussing with you. I don't know the answers either. But, we have lost something in the last 50 years (that's when I turned 18) of some importance. What that is-go figure.
Lawdog has it right. Who does the vetting? The government? Because that's just stupid to give them more control. They'll put a money basis onto it (like suppressor and short barrel rifle "Stamps"--really a tax), and it will be a cluster.
Buc - as long as proposed background checks to legally purchase a rifle are the SAME as background checks to vote or immigrate, you would find more bipartisan support.
But the Dems want to selectively raise the age to buy a rifle, lower the age to vote, and have no restrictions at all to enter the country!!
Adam, when I walk into the bank to do business I have to prove who I am...which makes sense to most folks. When you go to vote it only makes sense to prove who you are...but then again, the leftist do have an agenda as far as voter ID.
"ACCESS to a weapon that has the capacity to kill or maim a maximum number of people in a very short period of time. "
If we outlawed every gun that has the capacity to kill or maim a maximum number of people in a very short period of time, we would be left hunting with double barrels and single shots, maybe a bolt action but not sure. You could kill a lot of people with a bolt gun too.
The British "mad minute" record with the Lee Enfield bolt rifle was 38 hits at 200 yards in 60 seconds.
Jerry Miculek holds the speed shooting record with a revolver... 8 shots in ONE second
The Dems want to ban ALL guns. This is just the start, if you let them.
I guess I missed it. What mass shooting was committed with automatic weapons?
From what I've seen, most are committed with semi-auto weapons, but it's just another fact that gets lost on many..not to mention all the "clips" that they had in their possession.
Has been said before, but give a guy a shotgun with buck shot and he could do one heck of a lot of killing in a small space. So I suppose shotguns are safe from the taking, for now? It's not the weapon, it's the person behind the weapon.
Just my 2 cents ,I think solid grounded families are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Young men have terrible examples to follow. With this being said I think ar type guns should not be sold to anyone younger then 25. I have been an nra member for years but young males these days are lost and basically untrustworthy to own a gun like this.
Crickets from the mainstream media.
^^^^doesn't fit their narrative so swept under the rug in a New York minute..
"To be 21 years of age to purchase an automatic rifle (AR) or automatic high capacity handgun ? "
Mr. Buc, you need to educate yourself. First off, "AR" does NOT stand for "automatic rifle", it stands for ARMALITE, who is the manufacturer of AR rifles. And secondly, automatic rifles or pistols are NOT permitted for regular firearm sales. You need a Class 3 Federal Firearms license (FFL) for that.
And what is the point of a 30 day waiting period for people to purchase ANY firearm if they already have a gun safe full of them? The MAJORITY of legal firearm sales are NOT to first time buyers.
Tried to avoid President Joes speech tonight, assume it was the usual Demo anti gun drivvel. Wish us luck this fall.
Well I watched it and he was able to blame the Republicans for the state of affairs.
Tried to avoid President Joes speech tonight, assume it was the usual Demo anti gun drivvel. Wish us luck this fall.
smash karts Picking up my new 1911, today, yes, some day that will also be an assault weapon.......
Here is what no one talks about,,,,,,, What good does it do, to have laws on the books by the Democrats, on gun rules, when Democratic prosecutors, all over the country, throw the gun charge out, right off the bat..............................
It does no good. But it's all the fault of law abiding people, right?
Bottom line.....they HATE us, who we are, how we got here, and what we stand for. And they are doing everything they can to destroy us and our way of life.
And so far it's working :-(
There is no simple solution and also no solution that everyone will like. There are multiple circumstances that come together to enable these horrors. Video games inure kids to violence, poor parenting or no parenting allow kids to get to the point of doing something like this. The access to high capacity weapons gives them the feeling of power when they feel powerless, think of the strange guys usually dressed in black you see at gun shows….. The single simplest thing that can be done is to outlaw high capacity magazines with very stiff penalties for possession of any and enforce it. Next and more difficult would be to ban military weapons with detachable magazines. We all have to admit neither of these have any part in legitimate “Hunting.” Video games with violent content really have no place in true entertainment. The argument that “we need assault weapons to protect us from our government is pure BULLSHIT! We need an honest and trusted method of electing our representatives more than anything else. As far as parenting, we need to all be more involved with our children and less involved with acquiring every new thing to, “keep up with the Jones’s.” I know that some will think of me as a “Liberal Nut” but I’m a 70 year old, hunter, gun collector, gun builder, Traditional Bowhunter, former Boy Scout Leader and Marine. We have to be willing to compromise and make common sense changes or not be surprised when poorly though out Draconian legislation is passed to limit our rights. Cotton
The single simplest thing that can be done is to outlaw high capacity magazines with very stiff penalties for possession of any and enforce it. Next and more difficult would be to ban military weapons with detachable magazines. We all have to admit neither of these have any part in legitimate “Hunting.” The argument that “we need assault weapons to protect us from our government is pure BULLSHIT! I beg to differ. The constitution was not written to protect hunting.
"We have to be willing to compromise and make common sense changes." Cotton, What are you proposing that the Dems give up? As you should be aware Compromise means both sides give up something to work toward middle ground. You offered nothing but Democrat talking points, No Solutions.
Cotton, please educate yourself on the true meaning of the 2nd amendment.
“Common sense changes”!?
What exactly are common sense changes? When the airlines decided to increase security, it meant metal detectors, TSA with wands, x-ray, and explosive detection. It meant passengers would nearly need to disrobe to prove they’re clear of weapons. It meant locking cock-pit doors. It meant placing questionable passengers on watch, and no fly lists. Its also reduced airport mischief by a considerable amount. All in an effort to prevent some nut job from hijacking/crashing a plane and killing countless people.
But when it comes to protecting kids, it seems the only solution the left can come up with, is to take guns from law abiding citizens, and make more laws that criminals won’t abide by. They insist that hardening the school is a wasted effort, and more laws are the only solution.
“The argument that “we need assault weapons to protect us from our government is pure BULLSHIT! “
You’re right…because it also protects us from the people that voted for this government. If you’re stupid enough to vote for today’s Democratic party, you’re a part of the problem, and a potential threat to our immediate future. You support the defunding of our first responders, the release of criminal back to the streets, then you piss and moan when innocent people get hurt, and you blame law abiding citizens. THIS…if anything, is what qualifies as bullsh**t!
Well I knew I’d be stirring up the pot so I’m not surprised at some of the reactions so far and it’s interesting that some seem to think that I’m a “card carrying Liberal” boy are you wrong! Very Conservative Republican. The only problem I personally have with the so called “assault weapons” is the effect that they have on some people in that they make them feel powerful in some way that and they really aren’t up to snuff in performance or quality with a good rifle. I built an AR15 with smithing trick I could think of not just bolt on parts swaps and it still isn’t as good shooting as a Ruger V77 right out of the box. Ak’s are just junk period. Also the caliber is to light for a decent hunting rifle other than for coyotes. Common Sense is unfortunately not common. Cotton
Have a guess how many mass ( more than 4 deaths) shootings there have been in Australia since the 1996 gun ban ...... yeah you guessed it .... None zero not one. Now guess how many mass ( more than 4 deaths) shootings there have been in the UK since the gun ban in the same year 1996 ... yeah you guessed it None .. zero not one
Just sayin ..
The main problem with banning ARs is that it is simply a feel good measure by the democrats to appeal to their base. It will do NOTHING. Here is why:
There are MILLIONS of ARs in circulation. Many of them with no record of who they belong to. Also, there are thousands in the hands of law enforcement, many of which are fully automatic.
So if you ban any further ARs from being sold, it doesn't reduce the numbers that already exist. It doesn't reduce the chances that someone can acquire one illegally.
If you ban owning/possessing an AR, do they actually expect to collect all the ARs currently in existence? That is simply unreasonable. Again, there's no record of where many of them even are. So again, the law abiding citizen can't have one. But all the criminals can.
So all this does nothing at all. The criminals will have them (our southern border leaks like a sieve, you expect guns not to come up? Simply stupid).
Some AR's are not just junk, I have a Rock River that is a tack driving coyote killer.
If our government can give hundreds of thousands of M16's to our mortal enemy, the Taliban.... they certainly can't deny that same protection to ordinary law abiding Americans!!!
Cotton, you did not answer my question, What are you proposing the Dems give Up? As a 'Conservative Republican' why are you also only espousing Liberal (i.e. Democrat) Statements & Wording. Not one Conservative I know uses the term Assault Rifle (They use AR, MSR, etc) only Liberals commonly use that term now. Here's a question, in 2013 Obama ordered over 7000 M4A1s for the Federal EPA. These were Fully Automatic M4 rifles, He called them "Personal Defense Rifles" on the purchase Order which he signed. Why not Assault Weapons or Weapons of War?
These are Common Sense Questions
There are a lot of weapons of every description out there. One more law is not going to help. Please read the link I initially posted in the first couple of posts in this thread. Doing "something" just to feel good about doing something is foolish. When a shooting happens again, and it will, the response is that we didn't do enough and must, should do more. Where does it stop? How does taking my personal guns away help? To those of you who look to Australia, once they took the guns away, violent crimes actually increased. Need another example look at our "gun free" cities. Google is your friend here. Cotton, I strongly disagree with you. I have a DPMS AR10 that drives tacks at 300 yds with my ammo-the stuff I built for range fodder. I also use it for hunting. Anything with a detachable magazine? Think what that would cover. I have a Sako 7mm bolt action with a detachable magazine. It's illegal to own anything sharper than a butter knife in the UK. Why do you think they banned regular knives? How do you define an "assault weapon"? Is that where you want to go. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. I had a criminal law professor, and we were studying a case where a woman was hit and killed with a lamp. The guy was charged with a deadly weapon. How do we know it was deadly I was asked. Obviously, it killed her. How about banning anything more than a Ruger No. 1 or single or double shot shotgun? Because guys like me can shoot accurately really really fast with a variety of weapons-even wheel guns. Hell, I train for it. I don't like AKs, but I know how to field strip and shoot them. But after all, you only need one shot hunting and a double barrel for home protection. Cotton, where does it stop? You know freedom is not free in a lot of ways. Either you die or fight for it or you put up with the fleas that come with it or you find a way to deal with it effectively. Innocent folks go to jail. Under the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments, the guilty go free. Crime is one item that one is free to commit. That will probably never leave us. Another law is not going to help us. Criminals don't care about the law, and they'll aways have a weapon. Stopping those who do or want to commit these crimes does seem to be the answer. But, I suspect we'll have differing views on how to make that happen. We aren't even trying to stop them anymore. Don't come into my place of business to rob and burgle. Why do they seem to happen in gun free cities and states? As the song goes put a few more in the ground and they'll settle right down. Cotton, Goggle the 2nd amendment, its inception in 1789, and the debates, letters, and treaties about the inception of our first 10 amendments. They weren't part of the original constitution. The 2nd amendment not about hunting. It was and is about the government. Think a bunch of guys with rifles can't do much? Look at Ukaine. Think back. Boots on the ground is what wins. Hopefully, we, as a nation, will never get there. While you're Googling look up how to overthrow a government from within. First step-create chaos. Second, divide. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I have eyes and although some may doubt, a mind. History is full of relevant examples. Back to guns, I'll keep mine and try to find a way down off this soap box. Peace my friends.
US gun rights have been paid for with the lives of innocent children
"US "pro choice" rights have been paid for with the lives of innocent children."
There, I made your comment accurate.
3 semi auto hunting rifles I own that would never make it on a ban list. All 3 models fire calibers twice the size of the common 5.56 AR round, and they have enough power to crack engine blocks. You can buy high capacity magazines for all 3. They want to ban AR 15s because they are the flavor of the decade. In the 1980's, it was the Ruger Mini 14. In the 1960's and 1970's, it was the 30 cal M1 carbine that could be bought post-war at hardware stores for $40-$75.
Nice collection, Thornton. I had a 742 chambered in 280, in spite of the mediocre trigger it was wicked accurate. An 8 or 81 in 35 Remington would be big medicine for bears or boars.
Phil,
You've forgotten how things were in England, when Hitler was a short jump across the channel. American sportsmen were donating their hunting guns to England for there to be a resistance had he invaded. Fire extingushers and guns, just in case.
It's nothing but ignorance to suggest there is a gun law that will prevent shootings. The same old leftist rhetoric suggest that something or someone is to blame instead of the guilty party. Unbelievable!
The 1994 Assault Weapon ban was never sent up to the Supreme Court because both sides were unsure how it would be reviewed. This time there is no doubt. And any ban would be declared unconstitutional.
The Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that the 2nd Amendment protects "ordinary military equipment... in common use for the time" (affirmed from the earlier Miller decision). Like it or not, the AR15 is the constitutional gold standard.
Why is it that we had no problems in the 70s when we pulled up at the school house with guns in our trucks? I'm not naive enough to even think that guns are the problem. Do we ban cars when folks drink and drive and kill other folks? Listening to some of the comments on this thread illustrates the fact that a large percentage of the population has lost all common sense. When somebody is pissing down my back and telling me it's raining, I think I will be able to tell the difference. Not to mention the fact that you can look at the areas with the strictest gun control and see how that's worked out so far.
In the early 70's they let me brothers on the school bus in a case so they could pheasant after school and walk home. Shawn
Guns, guns guns....that's always the main subject...does a gun have a will?..does it make rash and terrible choices ?...is it evil or good? Does it matter how young or old it is ? Is a gun affected by bullying, broken homes or enviroment? Do guns commit crimes?
Gun control is just another example of a society that lacks the desire to be accountable, to promote good rather than evil....." let's just ban guns and wash our hands of it"
People will protest and lobby.. " save our children"!.....ban guns.... " we need common sense gun laws!....we offer our condolences, send up our prayers, vowel to do something about gun control..........
Then go back to our, broken homes, our schools without God, our promoting gay marriage, and gender identity, we abort our babys, legalize our drugs, we lie, cheat and steal, stay home from church, because of a hangover.
Then we put our " gun control"...banner back in our closets, thinking we have done our part.
All this talk?...... " it is as tinkling brass and sounding cymbal "......just noise.
The real answer is the.." Small still voice" .......that comes to you when you read between Matthew and Revelation.
When this country starts promoting "God control"...rather than " gun control"..........we will see results.
If they wanted results they would be honest with voters and say "We've done this before; Weapons ban of 94, Chicago, DC, ect... it doesn't work. Time to try something else." But as said above fixing the problem and actually curbing gun violence isn't their objective. So every time someone gets shot by a white guy or a cop they'll scream at the top of their lungs to take away guns. Endless cycle of doing the same thing and getting the same results.
YEP!
"Stupid is, as stupid does", in full display!
Happy to see the bipartisan framework that was agreed on focuses on mental health and school security and doesn't touch weapons, weapons components, or weapon accessories.
BEG, do you have a link of what’s in this agreement? I haven’t been able to find anything yet.
I have a feeling this will be everything I hate about American politics.... establishment politicians (both Democrat and Republican) pretending to work together to pretend to solve a pretend problem....
Legislation hasn't been written and the devil will always be in the details, but there are a few reports that highlight what framework has been agreed upon.
In:
- Funding for improving Red Flag laws at the state level
- Mental health and telehealth investment for suicide prevention, crisis and trauma intervention, and recovery
- Closing the boyfriend loophole which would prevent individuals convicted of abusing a partner in a serious relationship from owning guns. Currently, this is only the case for people who are married, living with a partner, or had a child with a partner
- Enhanced review process for buyers under 21 which would incorporate mental health and juvenile records into the background check by NICS
- Expanding the scope of who needs to register as an FFL
- Resources to expand school security
What's out:
- Expanded background checks
- Any type of weapon ban
- Raising the minimum age of purchase
Just a quick question: How can they include mental health records when they've already enacted HIPAA?
It has become increasingly difficult to get mental health records, even in legal proceedings. Lots of times, providers are requiring Court orders to obtain mental health records.
Try to get juvenile mental health records? Forget about it. Courts are signing protective orders that don't even allow attorneys to let the parents see the records.
Just a quick question: How can they include mental health records when they've already enacted HIPAA?
There are already expectations that certain mental health diagnosis by certain providers get reported to NICS. See the link attached. From what I've read, the agreed on framework would mandate NICS to contact state and local law enforcement as well as the appropriate agency that adjudicates mental health records in each state to search for any disqualifying mental health or juvenile records.
On January 4, 2016, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) moved forward on the Administration’s commitment to modify the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule to expressly permit certain covered entities to disclose to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) the identities of those individuals who, for mental health reasons, already are prohibited by Federal law from having a firearm.
No Red Flag Law will make 60 votes and we know this
There are no red flag laws in the framework, only the provision of resources for States to create their own red flag laws should they choose so.
