Coyotes don’t kill mature deer? BS!
Whitetail Deer
Three coyotes taking down a full-size deer
Three coyotes taking down a full-size deer
My son is here at my Ohio place to coyote hunt. He witnessed a commotion through his thermal. At first he thought it was a doe playing with his fawns. He then realized it was a full grown deer taken down by coyotes. The biggest dog, had the deer by the throat while the other two ripped his balls off and had him by the ass. The deer was killed shortly after.
The deer tried to kick but he was no match. They killed him right there. Unfortunately the shot was too far for Matt’s thermal. He recorded the scene.
Matt killed the lead dog
Matt killed the lead dog
Matt then moved closer and threw out his caller 10 yards In from of him. He used a fawn distress call (out goto in June) and the lead dog that suffocated the deer ran in. Matt shot him stone cold dead with a frontal shot.
Apex predator gone!
The other coyotes ran off and Matt was hoping the deer was still alive but it wasn’t. It was a young buck too.
Amazing thing to witness and get a little vengeance in return.
I saw that same thing watching the Drury’s tv show years ago. I think three coyotes took down a mature buck while they filmed. Of course they were bowhunting and had no way to even scare the damn yotes off. I know it’s nature but it’s still hard to watch. Good on Matt for at least killing one of them.
Glad he killed one of them.
I’m sure most of y’all have seen this one that’s a 5 1/2 year old buck since then we have taken out close to a 100 yotes off our place kill em all Good luck Lewis
Here is another predator victim the area was tore all to hell in about a 100 foot circle in a warm season grass plot.The only animal that came to the kill was a huge bobcat how he missed the traps is still a mystery this buck was 4 1/2 Lewis
I personally think coyotes are really hard on deer of all ages, seen too many videos of them on even big mature bucks... Do a YouTube search.... And I don't trust them around people neither....
Especially on crusted deep snow.
Thanks for sharing. Predators are out of hand in many places
I remember yrs back there was an article about a young woman from Canada I think,was attacked and killed by a pack of coyotes.
Damn predators they just keep predating.
A Bobcat pulled down a young Buck on video by LaCross last winter.
I've not seen coyotes kill but did get to witness 2 wolves kill a mature 8 point buck while deer hunting in Alberta. Same method, one grabbed the throat while the other grabbed the hamstring. Deer had absolutely no chance, the struggle didn't last long.
I've been preaching to my neighbors for years that the reason we don't see the deer we used to is because of the coyotes. I think after 3 years of me killing them with my thermal has finally made him a believer. We are now starting to see more fawn recruitment. I kill coyotes year round and recommend everybody else do the same, if you like to see deer while hunting anyway! Thanks for sharing that experience with us Pat. Keep shooting.....
I’m amazed a buck with hooves and antlers weighing over 100 pounds more then a coyote can’t fight one or two off.
Was hiking along a reservoir one winter, saw two coyotes on shore ahead. As I approached they ran off. There was a big doe standing in the water about ten yards out. They were just waiting for her to die from exposure. Then they'd have feasted. Smart bastards!
(Eventually I got her to spook out and head into the woods. )
There's a 'season' on them here but I've never heard of anyone getting busted for shooting one 'whenever'.
Friend of mine works for CA Fish and game and was part of a study where there radio colored 100 deer and followed them to determine clue of mortality. The was is in an area heavy with MNT lions. In the end coyotes were the number one killer.
Link to what 2 will do to a buck.... Notice the blood and likely guts hanging from the genital area... Doubt this buck survived...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxfmJyIDE4
Here's a big buck I know didn't survive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MocKEor1BM8
They’re pretty opportunistic predators, for sure. Definitely some satisfaction when a guy gets to take a few of them out.
Yup fear no mercy on those predators.
They are our version of a wolf pack. But think about it. Enough wolves can wear out and bring down a bull Moose. 10-1 weight ratio. A coyote and whitetail are perhaps 4,5 -1 weight ratio
This is why I started trapping, caught 15 coyotes last year on 200 acres
Coyotes killing mostly young, sickly deer is absolutely false. I'm of the opinion coyotes kill more big, healthy, fully mature trophy bucks than all the rest of the deer herd combined. And I'll tell you why. As a buck fully matures, he gains respect from the rest of the deer herd. How many times have you watched a group of does/ fawns and immature bucks feeding a field when the big boy steps out. Because of the big/mature buck's size and age he demands respect from the rest of the deer herd. In fact, the herd will often give the big guy his own prime feeding area out of respect. Normally, when a group of deer are feeding a field and a group of coyotes enter that field, the first thing the herd will do is scald out of there. That's what saves them. BUT because the big, mature buck has been given respect from the rest of the deer herd he expects that same respect from smaller critters. He'll see a group of several coyotes enter the field. Instead of running like the others, he'll look at the four or six coyotes and say to himself, " I'm bigger than all of you put together.. Come on.. I'll take you on!" Unfortunately, what he fails to calculate into the fight are the numbers. What normally happens is a couple or three coyotes will harass the bucks face, keeping his attention. Then, a couple others will circle and come in from the rear fully intending to rip open the femoral artery. Once that femoral artery is ripped open the biggest bad-ass buck in the world is dead in a minute and a half. Done deal. It's my personal opinion ANY time you get a chance to take a coyote out.. kill them all! bw
Amen Barry and All! I’m old and soft but predators get no pass!(unless you don’t like to see wildlife on your farm)
We are very fortunate in my area. We have 3-4 groups of hound hunters that chase them all winter. Keeping them in check.
They are getting really bad here in Ohio.......on our place.
We’ve taken right at a hundred out of our roughly 300 acres here in Tennessee in the last 4 years kill em all Good luck Lewis
I've seen mature mulie does chasing coyotes more often then the other way around. I had three does chase one right into the natural ground blind I was hunting out of one afternoon. The 'yote and I were eyeball to eyeball, at about 2 feet apart, for about 10 seconds, then he bolted out of the blind, and the does resumed the chase.
Matt
You'll never hear me say that. I've never witnessed a coyote kill of a mature whitetail deer but i have interrupted two chases, one of which was almost certainly going to end in a kill very soon. The other was a "fresh" chase, I bumped a mature buck and the yote took chase briefly. He was interrupted by a lucky "wing shot" made by me. (I shot the yote not the buck)
The only good coyote I am aware of!!! I'm at 22 for the year and I'll be back out there again in less then a week. The fawns need every break they can get from these bastards!
I have witnessed coyote running deer more than once, never actually saw them kill a mature deer, but like I said I've seen them running on behind, probably waiting for the right moment.
And they are hard on fawns.
“We did not detect any negative association between colonizing eastern coyotes and white-tailed deer population growth rates across six eastern states. Instead, we documented a consistent rise in deer abundance simultaneous to coyote colonization across the region.”
So what. A coyote pack kills an adult deer. The effects of coyotes on deer population and herd health has been studied extensively. They are an overall positive to deer and ecosystems. They are overwhelming mouser’s and small mammal predators. If you want to believe that they are great deer killers because you observe one chasing a deer or eating a carcass then go for it. There is plenty of quantitative scientific data that show deer heards do fine with coyotes around. Why hunters have to hate any predators that may eat what the are hunting and view them as competition is silly.
I see or hear them almost every time I sit in the stand. They get a pass from me. I’m not shooting an animal that I’m not going to eat. Shooting an animal because the might occasionally eat a deer makes absolutely no sense. Kill them all…C’mon man.
If I see them, I shoot them. Plain and simple for me.
You can find studies to back whatever opinion you have…
KS flat lander, Coyotes eat deer but have no negative effect on populations? You’ll have to explain how that works. The local deer around my house take a pretty good hit from the coyotes. 3-4+ Fresh kills every year.
speedgoat- you just have to trust him, throw common sense out the window and trust “the science”. Lol
The same people claim that wolves help the elk population - because there are “official studies”. Never mind what you are seeing.
There are a lot of peer reviewed wildlife journals on the subject. Feel free to look for them.
“You’ll have to explain how that works. The local deer around my house take a pretty good hit from the coyotes. 3-4+ Fresh kills every year“
Please explain how you know this. And if the answer is “I seen it” then did you actually see the coyotes chase and kill 3-4 deer on your place every year? I’ve been in the woods a lot personally and professionally for 30 years studying wildlife all over the U.S. and have never see a coyote kill a deer. By Old Schools logic (or illogic) I should conclude that they never kill deer. But I know they do. But I also know through wildlife studies that coyotes have a net positive effect on the ecosystem. Can coyotes have a negative effect locally in the short term. Yes. But overall they have a neutral to positive effect.
We also kill and eat deer. Does that mean hunters have a negative effect on deer population and health? That is the logic you are using with coyotes.
They may kill some deer but deer isn't their main diet.
They definitely take a toll on tej rabbit population.
By KS logic adding a cat to the barn helps create a healthier ecosystem for the mice.
You know - adding a predator helps the prey and all.
I feel so much better now that an expert has chimed in on the topic! The AOC of bowsite (aka KSflatlander) has spoken. For all you deer hunters who have found dead deer shredded to pieces for the last 100yds of their life stop killing coyotes (but how can we be positive it was a coyote doing the shredding if we didn't actually see it happen). They have their place in the ecosystem and they contribute to a better, more vital environment for deer. Coyotes can read and understand if they eat too many deer they need to focus on hunting rabbits and mice only. Oh, too many coyotes in an area they will abstain from doing their mates doggy style and just stop having sex altogether until a certain percentage of the older coyotes have passed away from old age and they can now resume what they do best... breed and kill and breed and kill some more. I'm selling my coyote hunting equipment because the expert has enlightened me! Leave the coyotes alone and everything will be just fine. If you aren't going to eat it then why kill kill it? That's what AOC, I mean KS would do, so we all need to follow his/her lead because he read 200 different studies and decided to ignore 198 of them and go with the 2 that would allow him to disagree and argue with anybody on the topic.
Novembermadman, there’s never been a topic on here he agrees with. He’s just here to stir the pot. He’s the ultimate expert on every topic that comes up. It’s best to not even read his posts. Kinda like watching a car wreck.
“Coyotes can read and understand if they eat too many deer they need to focus on hunting rabbits and mice only.”
You think if the deer are gone coyotes just lay down and die? Look up dietary studies (stomach contents) on coyotes…then report back what you find.
“there’s never been a topic on here he agrees with.“
I can’t help that you don’t understand confirmation bias. If you don’t like disagreement then don’t get on a DISCUSSION thread.
By the way Old School, if we would use your logic that only our anecdotal observations matter we definitely would still think everything revolves around the earth.
Big picture: You can't recreationally shoot or trap enough coyotes to change prey population dynamics in a big area. The more you take the more they make.
Small picture: You can change things in a small area. When you kill the coyote that's killing your chickens 3 nights in a row, you can see the difference.
KS - right. Anecdotal observation = thinking that predators reduce prey numbers. You literally make me lol.
I don’t even argue with you anymore. I feel sorry for you, because you feel so enlightened on so many topics that make you look like such an utter fool. End of statement.
The AOC of bowsite - that is a good one Novembermadman. And oh so true.
KSflatlander....what a ridiculous statement that they have no affect on the deer population. Common sense assure us otherwise. We also have studies that say homicide would be down if citizens didn't have certain types of weapons.
Please show me where I said coyotes have “no effect.”
Maybe you should read Glunt’s post.
Neighbors had a den of coyote within site of their house, they watched them bring everything and anything to the den for the pups...including fawns, rabbits, chickens you name it.
"You think if the deer are gone the coyotes just lay down and die?"...... no, and that makes as much sense as everything you say AOC!! If you didn't read it somewhere it doesn't exist. You are book smart and street stupid, or in this case environment stupid. You are way too intelligent to shoot a coyote. Say no more.....
I just opened this thread... Barry's post reminded me of why he is so well respected.
“no, and that makes as much sense as everything you say AOC!“
That’s the freaking point. Either your reading comprehension is grade school like or you didn’t read this thread.
“You are book smart and street stupid, or in this case environment stupid.“
Just like coyotes, you draw a lot of conclusions on nearly no information LMAO. AOC… that’s great. Got anymore intellectual jr. high school labels?
You literally could find all the true info with the phone in your hand right now. Look it up for yourself…learn something. Or remain a confirmation bias idiot. It makes no difference to me because what you claim is as fact is hyperbole with BS icing.
KS: don't give our state a bad name please.
Dave- I watched you for years had out big deer awards at the KBA convention then come here complaining of horn porn. Maybe it’s you who tarnishes KS bowhunting. Or just P#%S off.
Some people are good at football. Some people are the best at mma. Some people are great baseball players. Why would the animal kingdom be any different?
Thinking it’s a one size fits all in the coyote world is being narrow sighted. Coyotes are ultimate at one thing. Opportunity. And, I think they have evolved into killing machines. They are definitely getting better at killing deer. There is simply too much info out there to suggest otherwise.
For years, science said they weren’t pack animals. That seems to not be true at all in certain areas. Certainly in areas that they’ve learned to pack hunt. And, I’m certain they don’t hunt for mice when they pack up and hunt. Domestic dogs don’t pack hubt micr. So, it’d be stupid to suggest coyotes do.
Science is a far cry from settling anything that constantly changes. That’s the world we live in. From the grass we mow to the animals we hunt. Things change and change rapidly in nature.
I’ve watched deer chase multiple coyotes. I’ve also laid in my hammock and tents at night and listened to a pack of coyotes hunt, kill, and eat a full grown deer. And in a two week period, I’ve heard it three times from the same 5-6 coyotes. So, some coyotes are very good at killing deer.
Predators owes their prey nothing. But, they do owe other predators the due they deserve. That plays out in nature in several ways. Including coyotes getting killed by other predators when they get caught in a position that allows that. Speculating humans don’t owe the same treatment to a coyote that any other predator gives them, is plain baseless.
Kill everyone you can. Every time you can. They are becoming a different animal then the 30 pound mice hunter that just scavenges kill sites. They are a top killer. And, Are evolving daily to be even more efficient.
I've never heard a reputable biologist or any other reliable source say coyotes did not kill mature deer. They even killed hundreds of elk in Yellowstone before the wolves got there.
Good job Matt! Having been a sheep and goat rancher, we have no love for yotes. When we first bought our last ranch we saw very few deer and lost 38 head of mature goats the first year we had them. After aggressively trapping between 70-80 coyotes per winter for a couple years we saw a huge increase in our fawn crop, and decrease in livestock losses. Kill em all Matt! We'll be waiting for more pics...
Damn KS has a quick temper
Sad
Hey Matt and Cheryl! The last time you saw Matt he was 8 and made his first bow kill at Shiloh. We still talk about that hunt long ago.
Here’s Matt now, he’s since graduated from college and is employed in the Financial Services field. And he’s still a conservative and a stone cold coyote killer.
Coyote are killing machines, and very opportunistic.
We have all heard the phrase " sly like a fox"...but even a fox is not in the same league as a coyote.
Eastern and western coyote are not exactly the same animal. DNA evidence conducted on 700 coyote in PA and NY...show that they interbred with wolves in the great lakes region then expanded their range to PA and NY.
They are survivors and will prey on the easiest and most available source. To argue against the fact that they will bring down a mature deer especially in the winter is silly. It is VERY common to see coyote scat here in my area with deer hair in it...regardless of the time of year. Some might argue and say roadkill or dead deer, and while coyote certainly will eat carrion, I'm not naive enough to believe hair in scat is all from roadkill or whatever, especially in areas of state forest with no roads !
Coyote will on occasion also gang up on a lone hound and kill it.
I had to intercept a pack of coyote closing in on a redbone hound trailing in a large hollow one night....I could hear them sounding off from different locations and closing in on him....they weren't going down in there to say hello...
Loving the pics of Matt. We done good with our boys <3
KSflatlander I kinda follow what you're saying. And your handle itself may explain a bit of the disparity in views. In the "flatlands" coyotes and deer may be able to (I said "may" its a theory on my part) strike a sustainable balance. In the Southestern Appalachian region there is no balance. The terrain favors the coyote hunting strategies and abilities so heavily over whitetail deer that without some intervention deer would be doomed. Luckily between farmers, trappers, hunters and rabies/distemper we are holding our own for now. Two or three heavy snow winters here and it'd be a bad situation.
I've hunted a cattle farm in Loudoun County va for over 25 years. The entire time there's been yotes on the farm & farm rules are no predators are to be killed. Period.... I asked the owner & my personal friend many years ago "why" his response was = I've never lost a calf to Coyotes & if ya kill the resident pack the pack that replaces them may have a taste for beef.... His farm his rules...... Side note .....this area has perhaps the most liberal deer hunting season in the US. Antlerless only Sept 1 to oct 1 any legal weapon. Oct bow , nov muzzloader, Nov & Dec rifle. Then Antlerless only any weapon till the end of March. No daily bag limit on deer & doe tags are $18.00 for 6 Say & think what ya want about yotes. In this area they are abundant & so is the deer heard.
That's an impressive pile of fawn killers right there Pat! But who's that man posing with them?! We are both in shock right now. When I first saw your initial post i thought to myself "wow, Matt's old enough to hunt alone now?" Where did those years go?
We're happy to hear he's survived the liberal influence of college. .
"Barry's post reminded me of why he is so well respected"
I totally agree!!!
No doubt coyotes kill mature deer, those bucks that have been rutting all fall that are run down are also vulnerable, especially when the deep snow hits. When non hunters ask me why I would kill a coyote, I always say that the predators need to be managed as well as the prey, especially with the loss of habitat due to development. Also, most states have no closed season or bag limits for them, so that tells you something. I don't know if you can ever cut coyote numbers down unless you extensively and consistently trap areas every year like some of the guys do here, but I'll take them out when I can.
You guys that kill a bunch of coyotes can you tell it’s any help or ru just pissing in the wind? What I mean is do you see less coyotes now than say 2-4 yr ago whenever you started hunting-trapping/ killing them?? I’ve been told and read before that a coyote will have number of pups based on the coyote population. For instance your property is loaded in coyotes they may only have a few pups, whereas if your property coyote numbers are low one female dog will have 8-10 pups per litter… gods way I guess
It’s a good question. At my Ohio place I would say yes, there are far less coyotes now after shooting a bunch. However at my NY farm it hasn’t changed at all. New coyotes move in as soon as I kill the others.
Pat that’s my experience here… I lease over 3k acres in Virginia I don’t coyote hunt, I shoot them when I see them. But I have a local very well known trapper that catches 20-40 per season off of and we can’t tell any difference from one yr to the next…
In my experience I can say my neighbors and I are seeing more fawn recruitment BUT there are just as many coyotes now as there was 3 years ago when I started hunting them. I get out every chance I can from January to about May bc in my opinion that time of year is when you can do the most good for your local deer herd. Kill the dogs that live on your property or nearby and that is what will save your fawns. For all the naysayers who come at me with the comments about "you kill one and two take its place", I say that's great! I'll just buy more bullets!! I never get tired of shooting them and it's a great way to not only help your deer but it's also a great way to scout and learn the deer movements by watching the deer at night.
Coyotes will vary their litter size to what the environment will handle. One of the only critters out there that will. Wish humans would do the same. I consistently catch 30-50 a year in the areas I trap. Been doing it 15 years or so. The numbers are always there. What I notice the most is 3/4 of the ones I catch are younger dogs. I’m no scientist or brain surgeon but in my hillbilly head seems to me I’m keeping the older population knocked down. My hope is I’m keeping the mature deer killers at bay and working on the up and comers before they perfect their trade. I do see a lot more does with twins around.
If you get extended acreages that are lightly hunted due to leasing or rich land buyers the yotes get into not eating rabbits and trend to hunting deer like wolves and it works well.
Heres my observation, on 2 separate properties. WV Hilbilly got me set up and catching yotes better than ever, and i employed that knowledge on one property. Property 1. 165 acres, no trapping allowed. I run 10 cameras starting in July each year. Last year, i had 2 does that actually had fawns with them. 1 single, and one with twins. No fawns seen while hunting. Cameras were run from July to November. Coyotes on camera every night, and very few single dog pics, most were pairs. Its not breeding season, so they are hunting. We havent shot a doe on that property in 2 years because of this. Property 2. 14 acres. 6 dead coyotes in 10 days. I do not run cameras on this property(yet), but immediately after we quit removing coyotes, the owner commented on the deer they were seeing again. Coyotes will eat whatever they can kill, and absolutely can and do affect the deer population.
