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Elephant with a bow?
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Contributors to this thread:
wildwilderness 14-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 14-Jul-22
t-roy 15-Jul-22
JSW 15-Jul-22
JTreeman 15-Jul-22
azelkhntr 15-Jul-22
Big Joe 15-Jul-22
Big Joe 15-Jul-22
Zebrakiller 15-Jul-22
Bou'bound 15-Jul-22
keepemsharp 15-Jul-22
RonP 15-Jul-22
Bowbender 15-Jul-22
Treeline 15-Jul-22
Joey Ward 15-Jul-22
70lbDraw 15-Jul-22
Dale06 15-Jul-22
iceman 15-Jul-22
LINK 15-Jul-22
PECO2 15-Jul-22
WV Mountaineer 15-Jul-22
Scoot 15-Jul-22
Bake 15-Jul-22
Lewis 15-Jul-22
llamapacker 15-Jul-22
Bowfreak 15-Jul-22
wildwilderness 15-Jul-22
ahunter76 15-Jul-22
Julius Koenig 15-Jul-22
drycreek 15-Jul-22
Beav 15-Jul-22
BOHNTR 15-Jul-22
Rut Nut 15-Jul-22
azelkhntr 15-Jul-22
Treeline 15-Jul-22
Rut Nut 15-Jul-22
tobywon 15-Jul-22
Highlife 15-Jul-22
drycreek 15-Jul-22
wildwilderness 15-Jul-22
Matt 15-Jul-22
Bake 15-Jul-22
wildwilderness 15-Jul-22
Medicinemann 15-Jul-22
APauls 15-Jul-22
Buffalo1 15-Jul-22
drycreek 15-Jul-22
azelkhntr 15-Jul-22
[email protected] 15-Jul-22
Nick Muche 15-Jul-22
Medicinemann 15-Jul-22
WV Mountaineer 15-Jul-22
hunt forever 19-Jul-22
Whatthefoc 19-Jul-22
Whatthefoc 19-Jul-22
JL 19-Jul-22
Genesis 19-Jul-22
JSW 19-Jul-22
JL 19-Jul-22
TGbow 19-Jul-22
Ollie 20-Jul-22
Bou'bound 20-Jul-22
Scar Finga 20-Jul-22
hunt forever 21-Jul-22
ahunter76 22-Jul-22
Larry Burford 22-Jul-22
Ollie 22-Jul-22
Bearman 22-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 22-Jul-22
Dale06 22-Jul-22
hunt forever 23-Jul-22
Corax_latrans 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
hunt forever 24-Jul-22
sticksender 24-Jul-22
Bou'bound 24-Jul-22
hunt forever 24-Jul-22
hunt forever 24-Jul-22
Corax_latrans 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
Corax_latrans 24-Jul-22
Corax_latrans 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
Kurt 24-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 24-Jul-22
Medicinemann 24-Jul-22
wildwilderness 25-Jul-22
hunt forever 25-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 26-Jul-22
hunt forever 26-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 26-Jul-22
Bou'bound 26-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 26-Jul-22
fuzzy 26-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 26-Jul-22
Thornton 26-Jul-22
JSW 26-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 26-Jul-22
wildwilderness 27-Jul-22
soccern23ny 27-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 27-Jul-22
deerhunter72 27-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 27-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 28-Jul-22
Bou'bound 28-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 28-Jul-22
Bou'bound 28-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 28-Jul-22
Catscratch 28-Jul-22
Medicinemann 28-Jul-22
Bou'bound 28-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 28-Jul-22
azelkhntr 29-Jul-22
No Mercy 29-Jul-22
fuzzy 31-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 31-Jul-22
Highlife 31-Jul-22
fuzzy 31-Jul-22
MrPoindexter 31-Jul-22
fuzzy 03-Aug-22
JSW 07-Aug-22
wildwilderness 08-Aug-22
MrPoindexter 08-Aug-22
Zbone 13-Aug-22
Bigpizzaman 13-Aug-22
fuzzy 13-Aug-22
sticksender 13-Aug-22
Bigpizzaman 13-Aug-22
tobywon 13-Aug-22
Corax_latrans 14-Aug-22
Corax_latrans 14-Aug-22
Zbone 15-Aug-22
fuzzy 15-Aug-22
Corax_latrans 15-Aug-22
14-Jul-22
Would you shoot an Elephant with a bow?

I know many people have done it. I also know it takes a lot to kill and elephant. I have no problem hunting Elephants, just don’t know if I want to do it with a bow…..

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jul-22
Only if I needed to survive. Otherwise I’d hunt smaller game.

Matt.

From: t-roy
15-Jul-22
Most likely, not. The only one of the Big Five I really have any interest in bowhunting, is a Cape buffalo. I have no problems with guys hunting the other ones, if they want. They’re just not on my radar.

From: JSW
15-Jul-22
I booked an elephant hunt in 2009 was going to hunt it with a bow. Due to my own mistakes, I ended up in an area that didn't allow bowhunting for anything. Regardless, I did a lot of research and was prepared to take an elephant with an 85# compound bow.

It's been done and with the right equipment is a reasonable option. I always thought I would go back and complete my quest but it never happened.

Many people have been successful with archery equipment on elephants and if you really want to do it, it can be done. Listen to those who have done it, not those who think it can't be done.

From: JTreeman
15-Jul-22
I want to hunt every big game animal on earth, and I don’t want to hunt any of them with a rifle.

—jim

15-Jul-22
Could not pull a heavy enough bow at this point. Doesn’t really interest me either but have no problem with those who can and want to.

From: azelkhntr
15-Jul-22
Hard to think of something more shameful than killing an elephant period.

From: Big Joe
15-Jul-22
Azelkhntr what is the difference between an elephant and an elk or any other animal for that matter? Controlling numbers in areas that are over populated are becoming increasingly important. Botswana, Zimbabwe and a few other places are over populated by shocking amounts.

It is comments like these from within the hunting community that creates a lot of problems for our beloved lifestyle. Because if we would hold a referendum on hunting elephant, you would vote against hunting them with all the greenies. So next time you want to make emotional comments online, think before you do. Please.

From: Big Joe
15-Jul-22
Getting back to the original post. Yes, I would certainly hunt an elephant if I could afford it. I have the setup for big game, just need to switch the 670gr arrows out for my 1150gr ones.

From: Zebrakiller
15-Jul-22
Absolutely I would love ,

From: Bou'bound
15-Jul-22
brought an old thread up on this topic

some names from that past on that one

From: keepemsharp
15-Jul-22
Howard Hill did it after they shot it in the knees and tied it up.

From: RonP
15-Jul-22
i have no desire, but no issue with those who do

From: Bowbender
15-Jul-22
"Hard to think of something more shameful than killing an elephant period."

I dunno.......some of the sh!t you post is pretty shameful.

Shooting an elephant with a bow or gun ain't on my phucket list, but for those who want to, have at it.

From: Treeline
15-Jul-22
I would if I had the opportunity. Would have to get a compound though…. Not one I would attempt with a longbow.

From: Joey Ward
15-Jul-22
I'd shoot a yearling.

From: 70lbDraw
15-Jul-22
I’d like to see if I can take a blue whale with a bow fishing rig!

From: Dale06
15-Jul-22
No, I believe you need 90 pounds plus. I’m far to old to pull that weight and even when I was strong enough, would not interest me. In my view it’s a gimmick and a macho testosterone thing. But if some guys want to do it, have at it.

From: iceman
15-Jul-22
Not sure if I ever will, but yeah, I would if I had the chance

15-Jul-22
I see this is an old thread

The same discussion could be moved over to Whitetails also. Occasionally I make the mistake of watching Whitetail deer hunts on TV and many of them run away with the arrow hanging out of the side of them. a relatively thin shoulder blade stops penetration.

Even with moderate weight modern compounds, there are broadhead and arrow combos that would provide sufficient penetration on a Whitetail.

So should that be considered a “stunt” or unethical. I’m not saying it is or isn’t. Just throwing another angle to the (stunt) or ethics question.

From: LINK
15-Jul-22
I recall a fellow on here a few years back doing it with a stick. I don’t know if I’d ever hunt elephant but if I did it would be with a bow. Like others a rifle just has no appeal except for coyotes and maybe a wolf.

From: PECO2
15-Jul-22
I have no desire to hunt an elephant with anything. Well, maybe a camera.

15-Jul-22
I’m like treeman. I want to hunt and kill everything on this planet. And if I was held to just using a bow, I’m fine with that. But, I like rifles too. So, the opportunity is what would be the deciding factor. Not the weapon.

From: Scoot
15-Jul-22
Hell ya!

From: Bake
15-Jul-22
Elephant hunt is the very peak and pinnacle of my list. I would dearly love to hunt and kill an old elephant bull. Recently read Kai Uwe-Denkers books about wilderness hunting old elephant bulls in Namibia, I would love to do it

However, I have zero desire to do it with a bow. If I ever do it, the only way I want to do it is with an open sighted double rifle

From: Lewis
15-Jul-22
Not for me for sure but I remember Joella Bates doing it and I know she shot a 100 lb bow good luck all Lewis

From: llamapacker
15-Jul-22
I have hunted elephant multiple times, but always with a rifle. Brain shooting an elephant from15 yards with a rifle is every bit as exciting as an archery hunt, and the kill is quick and humane. I understand many have no real knowledge of elephant hunting, or even being in the field where they exist. Not too different than the city dweller who has no understanding of those who deer hunt. They weren't on my list until I had been to Africa many times, but it was easy to become fascinated and captivated by elephants and recognize them as a legitimate hunting pursuit once I understood the critters and their impact on their environment. I have no objections to an archery hunt for elephant, and may consider if the circumstances are right. Doubtful I will ever use archery tackle however, given the complexities of the hunt and the nearly identical stalk to get close for a brain shot with a rifle. While I will (hopefully) continue to enjoy elephant hunting, I don't have any need to do it with archery equipment. Bill

From: Bowfreak
15-Jul-22
There is a handful of animals that I have no desire to hunt and elephant is one of them. Similar to sheep, it is probably mostly based on the fact that I don't have the means to hunt them even if I wanted to. I know it has been done multiple times and I am all for anyone who chooses to hunt them, but my uneducated opinion is that an elephant may be stretching the efficient killing ability of a bow.

15-Jul-22
Not an old thread :)

Also for those who have never been to Africa it is impossible to explain how amazing the animals really are!

I will have the opportunity to hunt Elephant, but am not convinced I want to use a bow.

As mentioned a “proper” stalk and brain shot at close range with a rifle is the classic way of the old elephant hunters….

From: ahunter76
15-Jul-22

ahunter76's embedded Photo
ahunter76's embedded Photo
TREELINE-

15-Jul-22
If I were to do it, I’d want a double rifle. Just really always liked the looks of them, open sights.

From: drycreek
15-Jul-22
What Bowfreak said. I’m too old to contemplate Africa now, should have made time to go twenty years ago. Even then I wouldn’t have considered an elephant with gun or bow. I got nothing against anyone else hunting them because I know there are too many in certain areas and when the natives get through with the carcass nothing is left except a greasy spot. That can’t be a bad thing !

From: Beav
15-Jul-22
Absolutely I would!

From: BOHNTR
15-Jul-22
I think ol’ Tink killed three of them with a bow???

From: Rut Nut
15-Jul-22
There are MANY things more shameful than killing an elephant...................................................................but at the top of the list must be: TRYING to shame someone for legally trying to do so.............................................. ;-)

From: azelkhntr
15-Jul-22
: Rut Nut15-Jul-22 There are MANY things more shameful than killing an elephant...................................................................but at the top of the list must be: TRYING to shame someone who has the ability and desire to do so.............................................. ;-)

Ability and desire? You mean the money $$$$$ and the inflated EGO.

From: Treeline
15-Jul-22
OK, OK, yeah John, I would have to do it with a longbow just because…

From: Rut Nut
15-Jul-22
AZZ- you apparently missed the point of my statement.................................... so I edited it to be a bit more elementary! ;-)

From: tobywon
15-Jul-22

tobywon's embedded Photo
tobywon's embedded Photo
Just got to pick the right spot!!

From: Highlife
15-Jul-22
Body too effed up to even contemplate doing it with a bow. Did think about doing it but came to the conclusion that I don't need a new house built around the lifesize mount lol

From: drycreek
15-Jul-22
What Bowfreak said. I’m too old to contemplate Africa now, should have made time to go twenty years ago. Even then I wouldn’t have considered an elephant with gun or bow. I got nothing against anyone else hunting them because I know there are too many in certain areas and when the natives get through with the carcass nothing is left except a greasy spot. That can’t be a bad thing !

15-Jul-22
Non-importable hunts, usually in high density problem areas are a lot more affordable than most are implying.

On a per animal basis Africa is still way more affordable than most guided hunts.

The cost of buying a nice double rifle will definitely be more than the cost of the hunt!!

From: Matt
15-Jul-22
Never interested me. Not to mention there are lots of twang and bang stories which raises questions of ethics. Might just be too much animal for consistent, quick kills with archery tackle.

From: Bake
15-Jul-22
If anyone is interested in reading some really good "modern" books on elephant hunting then try: "About the Spirit of the African Wilderness" and "Along the Hunter's Path" by Kai-uwe Denker. They're hard to find and expensive, but very good. Denker is not a bowhunter, but has the soul of a bowhunter. And describes trophy hunting and selective hunting about as well as I've ever seen anyone describe it.

I can't read his mountain book because it's only in German, but apparently he hunted Marco Polo with his open sighted .404 elephant rifle. If that's not something a bowhunter would do . . . .:)

15-Jul-22
Thanks for the book recommendations, will look into it

From: Medicinemann
15-Jul-22
Pat Lefemine and I had an elephant bowhunt booked around 2015. It is one of the most heavily researched bowhunts that I ever attempted. I was really pumped for the adventure.....and about 6 weeks before we were scheduled to leave, it is my understanding that the Obama administration pressured the UN to rescind elephant bowhunts in Mozambique. I eventually got my deposit back for the hunt.....but Pat and I both took a bath on the airfare. I do remember that a much newer 75# Mathews Monster with a 5" brace height, generated as much KE as my much older Mathews Custom Safari, which was set anywhere from 105# to 112#. I also remember correspondence with Ricardo Longoria indicated that micro diameter arrow shafts that are PERFECTLY balanced would out penetrate larger diameter, heavier arrow shafts. In fact, Ricardo has a pass through on one elephant bull.....but I don't remember if he hit any ribs with that shot.....impressive, none the less. Ricardo also avoided the 300+ grain broadheads.....he used either vented 180 grain or solid 210 grain German Kinetics broadheads....both of which are scary sharp. To this day, it is the one bowhunting adventure that I miss attempting the most.....

From: APauls
15-Jul-22
azelkhntr but what if Putin went with you? Would you go then?

From: Buffalo1
15-Jul-22
Jake, I followed your logging of the prep for ya’ll’s planned elephant hunt as you posted. I was throughly heartbroken when the hunt was cancelled. I have no doubt it would have been an epic adventure and recording on Bowsite.

From: drycreek
15-Jul-22
What Bowfreak said. I’m too old to contemplate Africa now, should have made time to go twenty years ago. Even then I wouldn’t have considered an elephant with gun or bow. I got nothing against anyone else hunting them because I know there are too many in certain areas and when the natives get through with the carcass nothing is left except a greasy spot. That can’t be a bad thing !

From: azelkhntr
15-Jul-22
APauls15-Jul-22 azelkhntr but what if Putin went with you? Would you go then?

What an utterly bizarre question. First off that's President Putin to you LOL! Hes a little busy at the moment slaying the demonic dragons of NATO, WEF and the EU all while building an alternate economic powerhouse called BRICS. Which is rapidly growing. On a related note how do you canucks enjoy your new status as serfs to the totalitarian trudy state?

15-Jul-22
Elephant, elk, eland, etc..

If it's not harmful to the resource, there isnt, much on my "never would" hunt list when it comes to big game. We all here should be knowledgable enough to know that legal hunting has a giant positive impact on elephants as a whole.

From: Nick Muche
15-Jul-22
Jake, why aren’t you pursuing another go at it??

From: Medicinemann
15-Jul-22
Nick, The entire political circus really turned me off on hunting Africa....I would imagine that the cost is ridiculous compared to the deal that we had put together.

15-Jul-22
Ttt

From: hunt forever
19-Jul-22
Anyone on here taken an elephant with a bow in the last 10 years?

19-Jul-22
The excitement of tracking them and getting danger close for the shot can be had on a Tusk-Less Cow hunt.

For some reason Tusk-less Cows are usually pretty ornery or rank. So you get the thrill at a fraction of the cost. Approx $10k

From: Whatthefoc
19-Jul-22
I’m all for hunting them. But with a bow ?? I’m kinda on the fence.

Whoever posted about bow fishing for blue whales :) … it’s a perfect way to ask - how big is too big, where do you draw the line?

From: Whatthefoc
19-Jul-22

From: JL
19-Jul-22

I'm not against hunting anything. My thought is if I shot something the size of an elephant....what would I do with it? The import requirements for the parts/pieces or elephants are pretty strict. I was at Keystone Tannery/Taxi in lower PA one time dropping off some hides for tanning. I got a tour in the back work building. On the taxi side I seen some African animals in the process of being mounted. I recall a full mount giraffe....that thing was tall!! I seen several sets of elephant ears being worked on and maybe some feet.

I believe it would be fun to tag along on someone else's elephant hunt. I think that is because I could walk away afterwards with no financial or logistical obligations for the animal yet had the temporary satisfaction of being part of an elephant hunt.

I know it's different strokes for different folks. For myself, I'm thinking after I shot an elephant, would I mentally move on and be asking myself...ok...what's next on the kill list? The blue whale....a killer whale maybe? For me at my current place in life....the emotional or psychological desire (gratification???) to kill or keep killing things isn't there. I can be happy being a part of someone else's hunt. I suppose I, like many others, do still kill things for other reasons such as food and maybe a small memory or two. If I do eat some tag soup...it happens and that's cool too.

From: Genesis
19-Jul-22
I learn today that Joey Ward still has his game!! LOL

From: JSW
19-Jul-22
Growing up, I wanted to hunt everything. With that attitude, I set a goal to someday hunt certain animals and that included elephant. I never had any reason to believe that I would ever make enough money to make this happen, I didn't even make it to college, but a dream is a dream.

I was eventually able to book an elephant hunt and had two goals in mind. I was going to shoot a good bull and I was going to mount it when I got it back home. Every part of it was a dream come true. It took several years to get the cape and tusks back, knowing for sure, at one point that I would never see them again. When I got the call that the crates were in Houston, I drove 17 hours the next day to personally pick them up.

I shot a good bull at 15 yards with a .416 Remington mag, helped with the skinning and deboning and had a grand time. I still haven't gotten around to mounting it but I haven't given up. I always thought I would go back and get one with a bow but things changed and it's not looking good. At least I got to hunt the all time #1 animal on my list. Few hunters get that chance.

From: JL
19-Jul-22
^....good story!

From: TGbow
19-Jul-22
I don't have a problem with someone killing an elephant or anything that's not near extinction. I really have no interest in killing an elephant, whitetail deer keep me occupied

From: Ollie
20-Jul-22
No. Why do I need to kill an elephant? Just to prove I can? I have no interest in mounting one. I'm not taking meat home. I suppose I could pretend that I am providing meat and jobs for the local native tribes...but that is trying to justify killing an elephant.

From: Bou'bound
20-Jul-22
What does an elephant cape weigh and how does one store one while waiting to do something with it.

From: Scar Finga
20-Jul-22
Not my thing, but I would definitely try the meat! Cape Buffalo - Definitely... the other four, no. I am not opposed to others doing it, just doesn't interest me. It's kind of like sheep and goats... I would eat it but have no desire to hunt it! But I would definitely hunt a Polar Bear and eat it! I would probably club a baby seal and cape it and eat it!!

From: hunt forever
21-Jul-22
Ollie-There's no pretending. The meat is used by the locals and absolutely provides them with jobs. Have you been to Africa??

From: ahunter76
22-Jul-22

ahunter76's embedded Photo
ahunter76's embedded Photo
I never had the desire to hunt Africa. My dream was a Grizzly or Kodiak Bear. I had one nearly set up/finalized in the late 60s when the outfit I was going to go with had a plane crash & killed my guide. A couple years later I looked into it again & the jump in cost prevented me form doing. I have been blessed with over 6 decades of bowhunting a wide variety of biggame so no regrets. I actually think the hunts for critters like Elephants do more good for the locals & contribute to the well fare of the other Elephants. Why a person wants to "legally" take one does not concern me.

22-Jul-22
Bow? No way.... 460 Weatherby... YEP

From: Ollie
22-Jul-22
Yes Hunt Forever, been to Namibia twice. Watched the native camp help field dress my kudu, collecting the entrails in a wheelbarrow and they next went across the road to clean the entrails and distribute them to other natives. They also got meat and viscera from the other animals I shot. Have you ever been to Africa?

From: Bearman
22-Jul-22
20 years ago, if I had been a $$$ionaire, I would have hunted everything legal world wide. Now I'm old/poor and have accepted the fact it only deer n black bears for me now. Fine with that.

From: MrPoindexter
22-Jul-22
I booked an elephant hunt back in 2017 but could not secure a bow permit and had to borrow a rifle to hunt. I used a .375 H&H Magnum and killed him with a brain shot on the 8th day of my 9-day hunt. Had I used my bow, I might well have taken my elephant a day earlier as I had a broadside shot but no frontal that day.

I worked very hard to prepare for that hunt, got my draw weight up to 90 pounds (and had just started archery 2 years prior and hunting about 18 months prior). I still have my Monster Safari and 14 of my elephant arrows. I am hoping to complete that quest in the near future but I am now working on planning the NA Super Slam and that is going to force me to schedule around the hunting I can do here since I am limited to seasons whereas in Africa, I can essentially hunt whenever I have both the time and the money. My best guess is that I only have 10 years or so before my body won't pull back a bow like that and I need to get all three of my extra large animals still (elephant, hippo, rhino).

From: Dale06
22-Jul-22
Ollie, interesting comment. I arrowed an Eland among many other animals. The stomach on an eland is huge. I watched the locals cart off several full wheel barrels of stomach contents of my eland as they prepared the stomach lining to be eaten. And I saw them stick a garden hose in the front end (esophagus) of a wart hogs digestive tract and flush out the contents, so they could cook the guts.

From: hunt forever
23-Jul-22
Yes, I've been to Africa and make sure the local tractors and skinners get tipped. They also got meat from my animals. The African economy survives because of the money it brings into the country. This is why they treat the hunters so well.

Back to the thread topic. I'm very interested in any setups someone has used to harvest an elephant as well.

24-Jul-22
I would not. That’s one of those things which has been done before, so there is really no point in it.

And at under 25 yards, I’m not sure that it takes any less nerve to take one with a rifle than with a bow…. especially when there’s a guy (or several) standing right behind you with a Stopping Rifle which he has used before.

So it seems a bit of a Stunt. I would never think more of a man because he had done it, but I might think less, depending on his attitude about it.

I would be willing to take a young, tuskless female as part of a culling effort if I were in a situation where an operation needed help reducing the herd.

But I’ve read up on the science, and it turns out that the oldest bulls are the best & most successful breeders - 45 year-olds (no, I did not misplace a decimal point) are just coming into their prime years, and the oldest individuals (of both sexes) are the most critical to the long term survival of actual Elephants as Natural Selection has formed them.

Hunting them for Ivory - legal or not - is making them into something other (and I think less) than Nature needs from them. Some do need to be removed from some areas; some need to disperse through (or be moved) through areas without Elephants into places where there is actually room for them.

Great line from a book I read just recently (The Last Giants; Levison Wood): a Native guide said something to the effect that all of these non-African people who keep telling the Africans how they must manage their elephant populations should be required to adopt a few herds and see how they get along with them first. Then, perhaps with a little direct knowledge, they might offer some productive solutions.

What actually terrifies me is that…. At some point, Humanity is going to have to decide whether it is more important to maintain some semblance of biodiversity… or to feed all of the humans.

I suppose the planet will survive, one way or another… At least until the sun burns out. But it’s going to be one hell of a genetic bottleneck at some point…

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22
If there is no point in doing something because it has been done before, you should probably have heard the expression "there is nothing new under the sun" and re-evaluate your position. Killing deer with a bow has been done before. We have bison, they have Cape buffalo. We have cougars, they have lions. We have bears, they have elephants. The stuff in Africa is just a little bit bigger but otherwise it is pretty much the same. I don't begrudge somebody from Africa coming over to hunt our continent's brown and grizzly bears.

I suppose it depends on one's definition of stunt they are using:

noun: stunt; plural noun: stunts an action displaying spectacular skill and daring. ** OR ** something unusual done to attract attention.

I suppose many would fall into one camp or the other and they would often have the opposite opinion of the person depending on which definition of stunt they are using.

From: hunt forever
24-Jul-22
It interesting to me that hunters on here appear to be split on hunting elephant with a bow. It seems alot of it isn't based on personal experience. I haven't hunted them personal but plan to in the future. I'm not concerned with the size or the tusk but the experience of the hunt.

From: sticksender
24-Jul-22
I’d love to do it with a bow and have to give my highest regards to anyone who has.

From: Bou'bound
24-Jul-22
why would it interest anyone that hunters are split on anything...........heck have we proven we have people on all sides of all issues on essentially everything.

From: hunt forever
24-Jul-22
Yes, it's interesting to me, If its not to you that ok too. ??

From: hunt forever
24-Jul-22
That was supposed to be a smiley face not ??

24-Jul-22
I think that definition covers my point pretty thoroughly.

Shooting a deer at 300 or 500 or 1200 yards with a rifle off of sandbags… is also a Stunt. Don’t get me started on archery stunts and YouTube Hero wannabes….

The thing about shooting an Elephant with a bow is that even if everything goes perfectly (by ordinary Bowhunting standards) and Jumbo goes down in 20-30 seconds, you’re still - VERY foreseeably - putting your PH and his team in a life-threatening situation, and not everyone always walks away from that.

I have no clue what percentage of elephants would turn and burn vs turn and charge, but I’m plenty sure enough that if an elephant with 30 seconds to live decides that he wants you to be dead… You’d best be 32 seconds away.

Yeah, I know: If you can’t take a joke, you shouldn’t have signed on. And your PH knows what he’s getting into. All true. But 35 years ago, I was taught that it’s unethical to knowingly go into a situation where if anything Goes Bad, someone else is going to have to put themselves in foreseeable peril to save your sorry carcass. I look at pretty much everything the same way.

Guess you could say that I don’t believe in gambling with someone else’s money.

That’s my Belief System on matters such as this. Different people have different beliefs. That’s OK.

Just making it clear that my POV is based on more than whether I think someone else is compensating for his small penis. I don’t care - not until somebody else gets hurt.

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22
I understand what you are saying, Corax, but putting people (your entire hunting party, not just you) is really the definition of any dangerous game hunt, regardless of weapon. Even something small like a bushbuck can be very dangerous and they have killed far more people than anybody who has never been to Africa would ever suspect.

When any dangerous game animal wants you dead, you either kill it very quickly or die. The only real difference with elephants and other animals is that you don't have the alternative option of climbing a tree to escape the danger that you have with rhino, hippo, croc, and Cape buffalo. The cats can climb the tree and an elephant will just push it over unless it is a really old baobab.

This doesn't just apply to hunting, either. It is the same thing for people who climb Everest, K2 or any other high-risk mountain. Rodeo clowns put themselves in danger to distract bulls from the bull riders. I would hesitate to paint with such broad strokes that we label all those activities as unethical.

24-Jul-22
It’s a big sandbox, brother. Draw your line where you will.

24-Jul-22
One or two distinctions, though. Rodeo Clowns (for just one example) - everyone in the ring is a professional, and it ain’t their first Go-‘Round.

And Mtn Rescue folks have a name for those who pull stupid $#!+ vs. those who know what they’re doing, don’t take unnecessary risks and stuff happens anyway.

You Poke the Elephant, and you have poked an elephant. It’s gonna be a Rodeo. And I’d never want to be That Client who got somebody killed….

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22
Most cowboys, yes it isn't their first rodeo. But they all had a first rodeo at some time or another. Most people (myself being an exception) don't make their first hunt in their life to be bow hunting Cape buffalo or other dangerous game.

Climbing K2 doesn't need to be done any more than hunting an elephant does, but people do it and almost always they are making sure they are well prepared. I think most of the people who are ill prepared for either mountain climbing, or hunting are generally on more entry level rungs in their respective hobbies. I mean, the people I see that are not prepared for a hunt are the locals out looking for deer after dusting off their bow from last year and their practice is generally 5-6 shots at a bale of hay in the camp area somebody else set up. One year I recall seeing somebody who had arrows that didn't even weigh the same and one was slightly bent. I would never see that in Africa on safari. The bowhunter going for an elephant in Africa surely knows his stuff and is properly prepared and if he isn't, then his PH is going to recognize that immediately because part of his job is assessing if his client is even up to the challenge. My PH had me take a few animals before we went after by buffalo. Seeing my arrow bury to the fletches in a giraffe was convincing enough and then we started the DG hunt. I would expect any guide or PH to do his due diligence on any similar activity and again, reiterate that hunting an elephant with a bow isn't really that different than deciding to climb K2.

From: Grey Ghost
24-Jul-22
I question how much actual hunting the elephant shooters actually do. All the elephant hunts I’ve seen involved a small tribe of scouts, trackers, and multiple guides armed with bang sticks. The shooter is usually taxied in after a suitable animal is found by others. The hunts have a Jimmy John-ish feel to me. I have a hard time calling that “hunting”.

To each his own, though. If it’s legal and the animal isn’t wasted, have at it if that’s your thing.

Matt

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22
I can totally understand how you have that impression. I have been elephant hunting and we had 9 in our hunting party - something my cameraman commented on having never seen before. The breakdown though was as follows: 1. My guide, Wayne 2. Myself 3. My cameraman, Henco (I want to record my hunts and self-filming cuts into the experience I get. 4. Sam - One of the two trackers my guide has working for him 5. Cowboy - the other tracker by guide has working for him Now, at 5 we have what most would consider a full party but we are not done, sadly. It is worth noting that the two trackers Wayne has brough with him live up in Bulawayo where Wayne lives, so we currently are not bringing any local employment to the area... 6. Brian - Scout for Zim Parks department. This is a requirement for us to bring him along. 7. Trust - a local guide from Gwayi 8 Patrick - another local guide 9. Dumisani - a third local guide Now our party is 9 people. Crazy, right? I didn't even see a live elephant until day FOUR! We found tracks, spoor and even heard them moving about when we were following tracks. 10 Cannan - day SIX we get another tracker/scout that is recommended to us and we hire him. This guy is amazing. Wayne wishes we had him from day one. I now have four local guides/trackers/scouts on the payroll, in addition to the 2 Wayne has brought and my cameraman and the guy from Zim Parks. Needless to say, it is a full truck when we are driving. Speaking of, during the course of 9 days, we drive 320 miles over dirt roads and I log 80 miles on foot. I have a GPS tracker on my person (in case I get injured, lost or just need emergency evac for some reason - this is Africa, after all) so I am pretty sure and solid on my mileage numbers. It should also be noted that since I was denied my bow permit, I have to use a gun and I borrow a .375 H&H Magnum from Wayne. This makes a total of 2 guns in our hunting party - mine and Wayne on the .458 Lott with the rest having just axes and knives. To date, this has still been my most difficult hunt. We were pulling 14-hour days for 8 days straight. Day 9 was a bit less grueling, but we did have to butcher an elephant in the field so that was still a lot of work.

From: Grey Ghost
24-Jul-22
I guess I’m too much of a loner when it comes to big game hunting. My true satisfaction out of killing my quarry is knowing I did it all on my own.

Matt

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22
Well, hunting alone overseas is pretty tough. You can do it alone in New Zealand, but most other countries require you to have a guide by law. Even hunting bears in Alaska isn't possible alone unless you are a resident of that state. In Zim, I wouldn't have even been able to keep the party lower than 3 with the requirement for somebody from Zim Parks to be present. Plus, even if you could hunt it solo, there is simply no way to butcher an elephant by yourself. I think it took about 20 people just to roll it over and that was after we skinned and butchered the top half. I would have to go back and check photos but we may have even taken the head off by then too.

From: Kurt
24-Jul-22
I wasn't hunting elephant in Zimbabwe, 1996, rather plains game. But we came across a bull elephant that had crossed the dirt road and left a dung pile we could have high centered the Land Cruiser on right on the road. Track looked fresh in the dust. My PH says "you want to go try to find him?". Of course the answer was heck yes!

So off we went for a maybe a quarter mile. Suddenly we were close to an elephant that had pushed over a tree and was eating leaves and bark off it. We got into 12 yards. I got a great photo of the bull quartered away and still remember his stomach rumbling. My PH says to me "if he comes our way we have to run!" My response was "don't stop or I'll run you over!"

Anyway, the bull didn't discover us and I dare say, 12 yards looking up at big bull is awe inspiring. I never had the urge to go back and arrow one, but appreciate that some of us do! Don't think it related to penis size either, more like how we are wired.

From: MrPoindexter
24-Jul-22

MrPoindexter's embedded Photo
9 people assisting in rolling over a half-butchered elephant. Approximately 15 are on the other side pulling on the ropes you can see.
MrPoindexter's embedded Photo
9 people assisting in rolling over a half-butchered elephant. Approximately 15 are on the other side pulling on the ropes you can see.
I went back to check my footage. I don't have a good still frame of the butching as I switched to video for much of it. I did grab a screen cap off the flipping of the elephant. He had already had his head cut off, both legs on his right side, skinned the right side and all the meat they could reasonably get in the time we had. I counted NINE people lifting the two legs remaining to try and flip him and there were even more people on the other side pulling on the three ropes and cables to assist in rolling him over. If I were to venture a guess (too many people moving in and out of frame to get a good count from the other side on the ropes) I would say it was probably about 24 people to roll the already half butchered elephant over. I believe the leather alone we pulled off it was over 400 pounds.

From: Medicinemann
24-Jul-22
Mr. Poindexter, A really cool photo. If my 2015 elephant bowhunt with Pat Lefemine had come to fruition, I fully intended to video the entire butchering.

25-Jul-22
Now a Hippo with a bow would be a hoot. Not sure why some animals feel different to shoot

From: hunt forever
25-Jul-22
MrPoindexter,

Is that a bull you took with a bow?

From: MrPoindexter
26-Jul-22
It was a bull, but with a rifle. I applied for a bow permit but was denied permission to use a bow so I used a .375 H&H Magnum. Next elephant will be with a bow.

From: hunt forever
26-Jul-22
Where in Africa did you hunt?

From: MrPoindexter
26-Jul-22
The elephant was in Zimbabwe, Gwayi area outside of Lupane in Matabeleland North.

From: Bou'bound
26-Jul-22
Photos please.

From: MrPoindexter
26-Jul-22

MrPoindexter's Link
Again, it is a rifle hunt and not a bow hunt, but you can read the entire hunt report, along with photos and I even had daily GPS updates for how much travel we did each day. I put it up on another web site that specializes in africa hunting if they don't allow links here. (Thread is May 26, 2017 titled Elephant Hunt With Nyamazana Safaris)

From: fuzzy
26-Jul-22
Given time, money, opportunity, and younger shoulders, yes.

26-Jul-22
Mike, I’m not through the thread yet. But it’s a great write up. You definitely earned your shot and demonstrated what a proper elephant hunt looks like.

From: MrPoindexter
26-Jul-22
Thank you. I hope to have one equally interesting when I get to retake one with a bow.

26-Jul-22
Wow! Congratulations. Everyone needs to read your story.

From: Thornton
26-Jul-22
Never understood why anyone would want to kill an elephant or a giraffe. The sheer cost indicates it's more of an exhibition of one's money and bragging rights rather than feeding the natives.

From: JSW
26-Jul-22
When someone asks "why would anyone want to do that", my thoughts are "why would anyone not want to do it"? My next thought is the person speaking against it, probably knew he would never have the means to accomplish it. If you are resigned to the fact that you will never be able to accomplish something, its not hard to convince yourself that it wasn't worth doing to begin with. I get that.

Why is killing a deer good but killing a giraffe bad? Few people have a problem with killing a warthog but many cringe at killing a zebra. Think deeply for a minute and try to justify your position. Can you justify it? Do you fully understand the biological reasons behind certain hunts? Is a completely imotional response a valid resonse?

John Dutton articulated what I've been saying for years. "Just how cute does an animal have to be before you care if it dies to feed you". And he wasn't talking about animals that you think are acceptable to eat.

Hundres of billions of animals are killed each year in the process of agriculture and few of them are eaten by humans. "You can only kill an animal if you are going to eat it". That's an emotional statement. There are thousands of reasons to kill specific animals that you don't intend to eat to ensure that the balance remains. To ensure that other food is not destroyed. To ensure the cheap and easy access to what we need to survive. To ensure that valuable populations are protected. Before vilifying those who would do what you aren't willing or capable of doing is probably morally questionable. Try very hard to look at why something needs doing before condemning it. I realize that is a daunting task but as hunters, we need to fully understand the "why" before we condemn it.

God gave us dominion over the animals. With that comes great responsibiity. We are tasked with ensuring that all animals, especially the wild ones, are properly respected, properly managed, and properly consumed. If the populations get out of balance, we have to bring them back into balance for the benefit of all of them. We are pretty good at that as long as you take emotions out of the equation. Killing elephants in some areas is a necessaty. Would you rather pay someone to do it or allow someone to pay to do it? The answer is obvious. There is a clear economic incentive to properly manage all wild beasts.

From: MrPoindexter
26-Jul-22

MrPoindexter's Link
Quote: Never understood why anyone would want to kill an elephant or a giraffe. The sheer cost indicates it's more of an exhibition of one's money and bragging rights rather than feeding the natives. /Quote How much does it cost to kill a giraffe? And how much does it cost to kill an elephant? Did you make any such statements about killing a sheep or a brown bear? Any sheep in the NA Slam cost more than my elephant and both my giraffe combined. Is killing an Alaskan brown bear more of a financial flex? Or do you just perceive it to be that way because you do not know the actual cost. I suppose the old adage, "If you have to ask..." applies here perhaps and that might be a driver for the reaction. My elephant hunt was cheap. He cost me less than my Cape buffalo. I know how to find a deal when one is available, but that really is beside the point.

I will fall back to the old Peta statement that a chicken = a dog = a cow = an elephant. Why is one sacred and the other nothing special? I get it. I don't have a love of chickens that I do for elephants. I certainly don't have the level of respect for them I do for elephants. I also would never have the level of respect for elephants that I do now if I had never hunted one.

You learn a lot about animals when you hunt them. This is why hunters tend to love the species they hunt. They want them around for future generations. I would be willing to wager I have a better understanding of elephants than most here and not because I am any better educated or for any other reason than that I have actually hunted them. There are plenty of reasons to hunt them. The vast majority have nothing to do with ego or flexing one's finances. Those few who have walked miles over elephant tracks understand this. Most of those who have not done so are not only ignorant, but often unwilling to learn. Fortunately, places like this have very few people like that, compared to most other places I have found on the net.

For anybody who has just a little over an hour of their time and would like to see an amazing documentary on elephants and their impact on Kruger National Park, I would HIGHLY suggest watching this video:

27-Jul-22
Yea, there seems to be a general misunderstanding here in Costs to hunt Africa.

Cull giraffe hunts can be had for a few thousand dollars, even multiple animals in that price.

Elephants that are non-importable, even tuskless or small males, can be added on hunts for $4-5000. So all in less than $10k can get you an Elephant hunt, with some plains game.

Of course you can pay way way more for top end trophy hunts with all the 5 star lodges and cuisine.

But you would be hard pressed to find a fully guided elk hunt for those prices.

27-Jul-22
Very nicely written JSW, that should be saved for when someone asks why we hunt or kill any animal. Rabbit, Prairie Dog, wild Sheep,

Thornton, Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you!"

From: soccern23ny
27-Jul-22
Only if I'm close to the road. Sounds like a tough drag

27-Jul-22
Every anti hunting group. Especially people from Europe and the U.S. that hold anti African hunting beliefs. Or people that don’t understand the balance of human encroachment and wildlife, Should be forced to watch the documentary that Mike posted above.

It’s not the Disney cartoon many have in their mind. For some reason, even North American hunters that are pretty savvy on whitetail and N.A. Game population dynamics. But ignore that same science for animals they don’t want to hunt.

I have been guilty myself of weighing in a topic before fully educating myself.

From: MrPoindexter
27-Jul-22
The video apparently was delisted by Youtube. You cannot even find it by typing the name in their own search engine. You HAVE to have the link to watch it. This video is to the anti-hunters probably the same as the "What is a Woman?" documentary is to the trans movement and they figure the best way to answer it is to try and prevent people from watching it.

From: deerhunter72
27-Jul-22
My answer to the OP's question is, no I would not shoot an elephant with a bow. My reason is that I have zero interest in it, and really have no interest to visit Africa but I guess that could change someday. I don't look down my nose on anyone who does hunt big game there. All animals need some level of management, big and small. If you have the means and desire then I say go for it.

From: MrPoindexter
27-Jul-22
[Quote]Never understood why anyone would want to kill an elephant or a giraffe. The sheer cost indicates it's more of an exhibition of one's money and bragging rights rather than feeding the natives. [/Quote] Just one more point I wanted to make on this but forgot yesterday. How many pounds of meat does one get from a giraffe? (I will let you in on a secret - it is A LOT). Take that number and divide it by the cost of the trophy fee. You will suddenly find that shooting a giraffe is one of the cheapest sources of meat of any hunt in Africa. Dollars per pound, you will be hard pressed to find better deals than giraffe or non-exportable tuskless elephants.

27-Jul-22
Mr. P,

Your hunt was fun to read and ethically sound. I tried to square the criticism you just responded to from the same poster who put this on the win for the good guys threads;

“ This grouse took about ten shots before I hit it. Actually walked back to my pack and reloaded with full Velocity ammo instead of the subsonics I missed him ten times with.”

I am willing to bet most of the non-hunting public is more comfortable with your field behavior than his.

I enjoyed your story tremendously. At one time I intended to go. I still have my custom safari grade M700s in .375 H&H and .416 Remington Mag which will be left to a deserving family member who I hope will use them.

Thanks for sharing!

From: MrPoindexter
28-Jul-22
Thank you. I too still have my .375 H&H Magnum and my .416 Rigby that I bought to practice with just in case I was denied a bow permit. I even have 36 rounds of ammo left for the Rigby, which appears to be about a 9-lifetime supply. I don't expect any family members will use them if they inherit the guns. That is just too much gun for my daughters.

I am on pins and needles waiting to hear back on my rhino permit. Hopefully I get word tomorrow, since I am just over 2 weeks away from wheels up.

From: Bou'bound
28-Jul-22
what is involved in getting a rhino permit. are you going to bowhunt that thing if you get the go ahead.

From: MrPoindexter
28-Jul-22
You have to apply for a permit to hunt a rhino and they need a full resume of your hunting history, taxidermy, record of importation of prior hunting trophies, etc. I then needed to add a compelling reason to be allowed to have a bow permit, which is currently not allowed so I am applying for an exemption on their current hunting regulations.

My total application was around 30 pages long, not including anything provided by my outfitter.

The local offices for the permit had approved my permit and also were on board with allowing me to use a bow. The National office for nature conservation just today denied my bow exemption. In my application I have already stated that as an exclusive bow hunter, I have zero interest in hunting the animal with any weapon other than a bow and if I am approved for a permit but not an exemption for the bow, I would have to respectfully decline to accept the permit for use with a rifle and cancel my plans to hunt a rhino.

We are scheduling an appeal for either Friday or Monday but there is little chance to get them to change their ruling. Still, if we do not push, it will never get opened back up and so I have to push hard and appeal and hope they change their mind. I have already been down this path in Zimbabwe with Zim Parks on my elephant and it was denied in writing. Now, I make sure I don’t pay one penny for a hunt until my bow permit is approved. I am wheels up in 15 days now with no hunt itinerary and probably won’t be able to get things locked down until 11 days before I leave at best.

If anybody knows how to change the mind of these guys or has ever been a part of getting regulations changed for bow hunting, I certainly wouldn’t mind the advice.

From: Bou'bound
28-Jul-22
Interesting. In reality if they say yes to the bow the rhino will die because, I assume, there will be gun back-up required and if by chance the bow thing becomes a rodeo they lead will close the deal. It's not like a wounded archery rhino is going to get away right?

From: MrPoindexter
28-Jul-22
Correct. Also, given the terrain, there is virtually no chance of losing your animal. Still, it is my understanding that my permit is approved but not the bow exemption so now they are just approving or not approving of the method of kill. If you count the only animal I have ever hunted with a rifle, I am already 3/5 down on the big five and only missing a leopard and a rhino. My leopard hunt will likely be in 2024 or 2025 in Zimbabwe, depending on a number of factors.

There is always a rifle back up when hunting in Africa and when DG hunting, that rifle is .375 H&H or larger. My PH for my elephant hunt carried a .458 Lott so they run big heavy calibers. The guide backing up my first Cape buffalo hunt carried a .416 Rigby and the all the PHs on my lion hunts have carried .375 H&H Magnums. When out hunting plains game, I have seen PH's carry rifles as small as .300 Win Mag but that was in areas where there was no DG present (aside from possibly a leopard).

In reality though, with a 1,250 grain arrow coming from an 88lb bow with a 350 IBO speed and 28.5" draw, I cannot really see the rhino survive the arrow unless I simply make a terrible shot and cannot get a follow up and have to resort to a rifle. That or he charges and then the PH earns his money the hard way. Charges happen and I have been charged by lion and had a tracker charged by a wildebeest. I have told my PH's that I am not going to be the dick client who gets angry with the PH for doing his job of keeping me and my hunting party safe. If he feels he has to shoot the rifle, the only person I should be mad at is myself. Hopefully that doesn't happen here because then it is not a bow kill and I would have to go through this whole thing again.

From: Catscratch
28-Jul-22
What a great thread! I'm going to live vicariously through you for a while. Thanks for posting!

From: Medicinemann
28-Jul-22
Wow.....so your rhino hunt isn't using a tranquilizer in a hyperdermic needle attached to a lower poundage bow? I had no idea that rhino hunts were allowed where the animal was actually killed. I assume that this is a white Rhino, right?

From: Bou'bound
28-Jul-22
Let’s leave race out of this Jake

From: MrPoindexter
28-Jul-22
Jake, that is correct that I am not looking for a vita-dart or "green" hunt and this is for a white rhino. I figure I will do a green hunt once but it will be on a black rhino, which is true dangerous game and the real member of the Big 5. The white rhino was never originally in the B5 but was added when the black rhino became too hard to get due to pricing and conservation status.

Right now, my rhino hunt is in the application and appeals process and that might take a few years. My permit request to use a bow was denied by the national office of nature conservation. I was told that the local office was going to approve it but needed the national office to sign off on it. It has been a long time since a rhino was legit bow hunted in South Africa.

We have an appeal scheduled as soon as we can get somebody from the national office to hear it. That should happen tomorrow or Monday. I am told it is unlikely they will change their mind. Still, I will continue to press forward with trying to get them to approve a bow permit and might make it an annual attempt as I continue to get more and more progress towards my African grand slam. I figure that if I can get the rhino permit, there is a good chance to try and get a hippo permit, then a croc permit and finally an elephant permit, which would essentially reopen bow hunting for all species in South Africa. If things change, I will get my white rhino now but otherwise I will just do more plains game on this trip. There is no other new dangerous game for me than I can get in South Africa otherwise. I am racing time though. I don't know how many more years my body will let me pull a 90lb bow. Most likely, I will be fine one day and then "pop" and I will never be able to shoot 90 again.

I would prefer to do my green hunt on a rhino when my children are all old enough to go to Africa and really appreciate the trip. When I took them to Australia and Singapore years ago, they were young and one of them has her memories she recalls were sitting in a hot tub in the hotel and eating noodles for lunch. I would think being able to come up and take a photo with a real live black rhino would be a cool hunting memory even for the daughter who does not agree with hunting.

From: azelkhntr
29-Jul-22
^^^^^^^ Oh the trials of the upper crust.

From: No Mercy
29-Jul-22

From: fuzzy
31-Jul-22
While we are dreaming, who here would consider an elephant hunt with a muzzle loading 4-bore? Or a .280/7mm caliber a-la WDM "Karamojo " Bell?

From: MrPoindexter
31-Jul-22
I don't think you can legally hunt one with a .280/7mm anywhere. Those hunts back in the day were before the minimum caliber regulations were in place.

My rhino bow permit was denied so I am back on looking for elephant with a bow. I dusted off my Tembo package of arrows and don't want to have that done for nothing. Heard Zim was allowing it again but have not gotten confirmation. Too late for this year but maybe for 2023...

From: Highlife
31-Jul-22
Why not It would be interesting to say the least lol

From: fuzzy
31-Jul-22
MrPoindexter my pondering was 100% hypothetical. I'm as likely to hunt elephant with a 4 bore or a. 7mm as I am with a bow so it's all daydreaming. Maybe a Sharp's. 45-110 loaded with 500 grain copper solids....hmmmm

From: MrPoindexter
31-Jul-22
Well, just about any elephant hunt is destined to be an adventure. Shooting an elephant gun is also an adventure - something I would love most of the people who denigrate elephant hunting as easy to be forced to fire a half dozen times and see how their body fares through the experience. Two shots from my .416 Rigby and I could not pull my bow back for 3 days. No exaggeration - it seriously jacked me up.

From: fuzzy
03-Aug-22
Im sure! I've never shot anything that recoils harder than my 12 gauge 3&1/2inch slug shotgun. Not sure I want to.

From: JSW
07-Aug-22
An African PH once shot an elephant through the ear hole with a FMJ .222 remington magnum, which is basically a .223. Just to prove it could be done. It probably wouldn't have worked on a frontal brain shot. The previous WR grizzly bear was shot in the side of the head with a 22 long rimfire. The side of the skull on any mammal is pretty thin.

WDM Bell shot hundreds of bulls in the head with a 7x57 and FMJ slugs. He know exactly where to aim at any angle and if he pulled the trigger a bull dropped. Today, that would be considered unethical. It really comes down to shot placement.

08-Aug-22

wildwilderness's Link
This link has info on Bow -hunting Zim. Elephant is listed as legal to bowhunt on certain lands.

That is where I’m contemplating an elephant hunt

https://gothunts.com/bowhunting-in-zimbabwe/

From: MrPoindexter
08-Aug-22
Well, I forwarded that to my guy in Zim and let him know if he can get me an ele permit, I will come do an ele/leopard combo hunt at first opportunity.

From: Zbone
13-Aug-22

Zbone's embedded Photo
Zbone's embedded Photo
Legal or not, there's just some things you just don't do...

13-Aug-22
Zbone, please scroll up and watch the video posted on 26 July by Mr Poindexter Or research any country that banned elephant hunting but didn’t also reduce human populations or give elephants their entire habitat back. It’s easy for us over here to tell them not to control animal populations that decimate their habitat. We wouldn’t allow animals to decimate our land or crops. Why would we be so arrogant to tell them how to control animals over capacity

From: Bigpizzaman
13-Aug-22
I’m late to the party here, see one guy says you shouldn’t do it because the PH might have to bail you out? Guess all dangerous game hunting archery or rifle must be stopped if that’s the new “Ethics”. Hell Sheep/Goat hunting in rugged terrain? Polar Bear?

Been on 2 Archery Elephant hunts. Tried to add one onto my Leopard hunt in 2021, Zimbabwe won’t allow, too much pressure from Greenies!

From: fuzzy
13-Aug-22
Zbone that's true but hunting elephant isn't one for me. The only thing holding me back is money and age related physical limitations

From: sticksender
13-Aug-22
Always baffling when any self-professed hunter segregates a species for "bambi" status. Especially when that species is thriving, sometimes too well. There would seem to be little rationale other than emotion.

A doe with a pair of spotted fawns makes for an equally cute picture, but you'll rarely hear even non-hunters object to whitetail hunting based on emotional preferences. People mostly accept that deer will hammer the environment if left unchecked. Why is it then so hard to grasp that the exact same problem, and worse, results from unchecked herds of mega-fauna like elephants?

From: Bigpizzaman
13-Aug-22
Agree 100% Greg, I equate the Elephants in Hwange to the Bison in Yellowstone. Both Majestic animals, both exceeding their designated area’s population and both need to be controlled. Hunting, trophy and PAC are the most prudent way, especially for a country as poor as Zimbabwe!

From: tobywon
13-Aug-22
I compare it to hunters complaining about people in the cities that want to eliminate hunting for mountain lions, bears, or wolves when they have no clue as to what the people or ranchers have to deal with that live amongst these animals. Maybe if you had a field of crops that your family relies upon that gets trampled by elephants every day then maybe some of the naysayers would understand. That’s fine if its not your cup of tea.

14-Aug-22
That video on the 10X overpopulation in Kruger is horrifying. For those who won’t take the time to watch the whole thing, the report there is that forest systems dominated by 400-year-old trees have been entirely wiped out in less than 50 years, and 5,000-year old Baobabs are being torn down by hungry elephants.

It’s not necessarily the same time frame for recovery, but we have the same issues here; there are landscape ecologists who have suggested that the whitetails in places like VA are sufficiently overpopulated to prevent forest regeneration following a major fire or hurricane. Eastern hardwoods could become savanna. Something they have never been.

That’s why wolves were brought back in to the Yellowstone system - something had to be done, and hunting was off the table within the National Park system.

The thing to take in, though…

When a species is allowed to become grossly overpopulated, whether out of a desire to “protect” it or just because we humans want artificially high populations to ensure that we can have a “quality” hunting experience, there’s no difference in the outcome. It’s a train wreck.

Hunters can be just as wrong-headed and short-sighted as Antis; we just rationalize it differently.

14-Aug-22
That video on the 10X overpopulation in Kruger is horrifying. For those who won’t take the time to watch the whole thing, the report there is that forest systems dominated by 400-year-old trees have been entirely wiped out in less than 50 years, and 5,000-year old Baobabs are being torn down by hungry elephants.

It’s not necessarily the same time frame for recovery, but we have the same issues here; there are landscape ecologists who have suggested that the whitetails in places like VA are sufficiently overpopulated to prevent forest regeneration following a major fire or hurricane. Eastern hardwoods could become savanna. Something they have never been.

That’s why wolves were brought back in to the Yellowstone system - something had to be done, and hunting was off the table within the National Park system.

The thing to take in, though…

When a species is allowed to become grossly overpopulated, whether out of a desire to “protect” it or just because we humans want artificially high populations to ensure that we can have a “quality” hunting experience, there’s no difference in the outcome. It’s a train wreck.

Hunters can be just as wrong-headed and short-sighted as Antis; we just rationalize it differently.

From: Zbone
15-Aug-22
Have seen enough nature shows of elephants intelligence and family units affection, and togetherness protecting one another and have too much compassion to ever want to kill one... Once seen a elephant culling video that left a lasting memory... It was not pretty...

From: fuzzy
15-Aug-22
One purpose of Sport hunting is to prevent the necessity of culls. TV shows are just that, entertainment. They don't reflect the harsh reality of nature.

15-Aug-22
Zbone is not wrong; there’s some pretty good science done on the social structure, and elephants demonstrate a LOT of behaviors that suggest that they have exceptionally close bonds. Whole different league from most “social” species.

Which is problematic. Whales, dolphins and the great apes, too. Pretty much all long-lived mammals.

But where do we draw the line between an animal and a creature that is afforded more “personhood” than other “animals” ?(because People are Animals, too…)

Since we’re talking about matters of Law here - international law at that - religious-based positions don’t figure. So let’s not go there.

But the elephants aren’t managing themselves and they’re (at least in Kruger) clearly not managing their own ecosystem for sustainability. If they’re killing off 5,000 year-old trees/forests, ir would be more accurate to put them on par with the Taliban taking out world heritage sites. So some management must be done.

Total respect for those with no desire to kill one, but I have no idea how many places in Africa feel like they need to bring in more of them… so Kruger at least, evidently has a surplus that needs to be dealt with.

I still can’t get behind taking out the biggest, oldest bulls (unless they are specifically known to be crop-raiders or a threat to human life) but unnatural selection is reversing the natural order of things, so probably culling of younger, tuskless individuals is the way to go. To the extent that individuals are traumatized by “witnessing” a cull, seems that the thing to do would be to basically go wholesale, which sounds horrible; but if you accept the idea that a lone survivor would have “psychological” trauma (not convinced that that is the case), maybe it’s better off being taken out with the rest of the bunch. If 90% reduction is what’s really needed, there aren’t many appealing options.

The trick is leaving enough of the eldest ones which know all the tricks and watersources so that they’ can pass that knowledge to younger members of the herd.

Messy as hell.

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