Unvaccinated Covid Study
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
BowSniper 18-Jul-22
Old Bow 18-Jul-22
Pete-pec 18-Jul-22
APauls 18-Jul-22
Treeline 18-Jul-22
Thornton 18-Jul-22
Shaft2Long 18-Jul-22
Scoot 18-Jul-22
Bou'bound 18-Jul-22
Aspen Ghost 18-Jul-22
TGbow 18-Jul-22
BowSniper 18-Jul-22
Pete-pec 18-Jul-22
Treeline 18-Jul-22
Aspen Ghost 18-Jul-22
HDE 18-Jul-22
azelkhntr 18-Jul-22
Scoot 18-Jul-22
azelkhntr 18-Jul-22
Pete-pec 18-Jul-22
[email protected] 18-Jul-22
[email protected] 18-Jul-22
Dale06 18-Jul-22
Scoot 18-Jul-22
spike78 18-Jul-22
Pete-pec 18-Jul-22
Matt 18-Jul-22
Corax_latrans 18-Jul-22
Tilzbow 18-Jul-22
'Ike' 18-Jul-22
Matt 18-Jul-22
Pete-pec 18-Jul-22
[email protected] 19-Jul-22
Stix 19-Jul-22
Scoot 19-Jul-22
Genesis 19-Jul-22
South Farm 19-Jul-22
Brotsky 19-Jul-22
bluedog 19-Jul-22
azelkhntr 19-Jul-22
LINK 19-Jul-22
Scoot 19-Jul-22
Matt 19-Jul-22
'Ike' (Phone) 19-Jul-22
azelkhntr 19-Jul-22
Scoot 19-Jul-22
PECO2 19-Jul-22
Scoot 19-Jul-22
PECO2 19-Jul-22
azelkhntr 19-Jul-22
Pete-pec 19-Jul-22
Brotsky 19-Jul-22
azelkhntr 19-Jul-22
South Farm 19-Jul-22
Scoot 19-Jul-22
3arrows 19-Jul-22
Matt 19-Jul-22
Stix 19-Jul-22
BULELK1 20-Jul-22
Ermine 20-Jul-22
KSflatlander 20-Jul-22
LINK 20-Jul-22
70lbDraw 20-Jul-22
fuzzy 20-Jul-22
WV Mountaineer 20-Jul-22
[email protected] 20-Jul-22
Treeline 20-Jul-22
Scoot 20-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 20-Jul-22
spike78 20-Jul-22
Matt 20-Jul-22
elkmtngear 20-Jul-22
[email protected] 20-Jul-22
Scoot 20-Jul-22
spike78 20-Jul-22
azelkhntr 20-Jul-22
Matt 20-Jul-22
ohiohunter 20-Jul-22
spike78 20-Jul-22
Matt 20-Jul-22
azelkhntr 20-Jul-22
azelkhntr 21-Jul-22
spike78 22-Jul-22
Matt 22-Jul-22
Thornton 22-Jul-22
Sean D. 22-Jul-22
Nemophilist 22-Jul-22
spike78 22-Jul-22
azelkhntr 22-Jul-22
Tim257 22-Jul-22
Tim257 22-Jul-22
70lbDraw 22-Jul-22
Matt 22-Jul-22
azelkhntr 23-Jul-22
spike78 23-Jul-22
fuzzy 23-Jul-22
azelkhntr 24-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
Jim Moore 25-Jul-22
ohiohunter 25-Jul-22
WV Mountaineer 25-Jul-22
fuzzy 25-Jul-22
KSflatlander 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
spike78 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
KSflatlander 25-Jul-22
bigeasygator 25-Jul-22
gflight 25-Jul-22
Grasshopper 25-Jul-22
TGbow 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
azelkhntr 25-Jul-22
KSflatlander 25-Jul-22
Matt 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
KSflatlander 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
KSflatlander 25-Jul-22
Thornton 25-Jul-22
Matt 26-Jul-22
KSflatlander 26-Jul-22
azelkhntr 26-Jul-22
swatmedic 26-Jul-22
azelkhntr 26-Jul-22
Thornton 26-Jul-22
Matt 26-Jul-22
azelkhntr 26-Jul-22
swatmedic 26-Jul-22
Matt 26-Jul-22
azelkhntr 26-Jul-22
Jeff Durnell 27-Jul-22
KSflatlander 27-Jul-22
Scoot 27-Jul-22
spike78 27-Jul-22
midwest 27-Jul-22
swatmedic 27-Jul-22
spike78 27-Jul-22
Matt 27-Jul-22
Thornton 27-Jul-22
Thornton 27-Jul-22
KSflatlander 27-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 27-Jul-22
Grey Ghost 27-Jul-22
Scoot 27-Jul-22
KSflatlander 28-Jul-22
swatmedic 29-Jul-22
WV Mountaineer 29-Jul-22
swatmedic 29-Jul-22
Matt 29-Jul-22
KSflatlander 29-Jul-22
RD in WI 29-Jul-22
Scoot 29-Jul-22
spike78 29-Jul-22
azelkhntr 29-Jul-22
Matt 29-Jul-22
Thornton 29-Jul-22
Thornton 29-Jul-22
fuzzy 29-Jul-22
Matt 29-Jul-22
RD in WI 30-Jul-22
azelkhntr 30-Jul-22
PECO2 30-Jul-22
shade mt 31-Jul-22
SteveB 31-Jul-22
cath8r 01-Aug-22
spike78 01-Aug-22
Thornton 01-Aug-22
cath8r 01-Aug-22
azelkhntr 02-Aug-22
ahunter76 04-Aug-22
azelkhntr 04-Aug-22
azelkhntr 04-Aug-22
From: BowSniper
18-Jul-22

BowSniper's Link
Interesting article. They only studied family units of totally unvaccinated people. Found 96.7% of cases were mild or asymptomatic, and immunity gained was long lasting.

So doing absolutely nothing, no vaccine no boosters, and only a 3.3% of hospitalization or death. Remember the original Delta variant was roughly 80% mild or asymptomatic, with 15-20% hospitalization or death. So the Omicron while spreading faster is far less dangerous on a case per case basis.

Keep that in mind as they roll out the midterm variant with sirens and lights and general MSM hysteria. Long live the purebloods!! ??

From: Old Bow
18-Jul-22
There going to have a harder time keeping people Locked down with this Bullsh%t

From: Pete-pec
18-Jul-22
Both sides of the debate keep the ball rolling though. I'd remember that instead. News is only news if you never heard something, and then you did lol. The way we are so polarized in this nation, everything we are told has two opposing viewpoints told to us by scientists who are whores to the highest bidder. It's whether or not what we hear fits our bias. Our bias normally comes from influencers we thought we could trust....starting with our parents who teach us folklore, because their parents did the same. On the topic of Covid-19. I'm so over it lol.

From: APauls
18-Jul-22
Keep in mind all the "sickly/scared" people were the ones to get vaccinated. So the unvaccinated people were more likely to be healthy out of the gate which is the biggest thing with COVID. But ya, do people still care about it? In general people only read the articles they agree with.

From: Treeline
18-Jul-22
Biggest scam in human history.

From: Thornton
18-Jul-22
I worked 3 ERs throughout covid while unvaccinated. Got it twice. 2nd time was pretty bad but I wasn't admitted to the hospital. When I got back to my main job, I found out 3 of my vaccinated and boosted coworkers had it much worse than I did. One was a healthy 30 year old that ended up on home oxygen for 3 months. Another got permanent lung damage.

From: Shaft2Long
18-Jul-22
There going to have a harder time keeping people Locked down with this Bullsh%t

I think people will dive right back in just like they did the first time.

The last 6.5 years has totally dimmed my view of humanity and I didn’t think that was possible.

From: Scoot
18-Jul-22
"...scientists who are whores to the highest bidder..."

Remarkably uniformed and ridiculous statement. Do you have any other broad-sweeping statements you'd like to apply to all people of another occupation? I know of a teacher who had sex with an under-aged student-- are all teachers pedophiles? I know of a cop who stole money from his department- are they all criminals too? Just curious how far your ridiculous stereotypes go?

If you take the worst of the bunch from any group of people (and every group has them), and assume all members of that group are similar, then you'll assume every group of people on earth sucks. Of course if you assume not all of any group of people are well represented by the liars, criminals, and scum, then you might have a little better/clearer picture of things. See it however you want... The bad rap that real scientists have gotten through this deal has been interesting and disappointing. Big pharma and politics are to blame, not science or scientists. Because some idiot mouth piece for the feds claims to be a scientist shouldn't discredit scientists, it should discredit him and politicians.

One more thing-- if you think big pharma is a representative of science or scientists, you're misinformed. They employ scientists, but are simply big business. They are money making machines and care about the bottom line.

I'm sure that will stir this hornet's nest! But the take I quoted is a great example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Have a nice day!

From: Bou'bound
18-Jul-22
The study also noted 100% of the unvaccinated can not hunt in Canada.

From: Aspen Ghost
18-Jul-22
Considering that at this point the unvaccinated are people who are healthy who feel they aren't at risk ; "only a 3.3% of hospitalization or death" That doesn't sound like good odds to me. Would you get on out an airplane if "only" 3% of the flights crash?

And Thornton's front line report doesn't sound like Covid is a scam either.

Covid is what it is. It's real, for most it's an inconvenience, for others a serious, expensive illness, and for others it's death. Take prudent precautions, live your life based upon your situation and the community transmission risk at the time. For some that means it might make sense to get vaccinated, properly wear a good mask, avoid crowds. Those things all reduce risk. If you think your risk is low then don't take any precautions. Make decisions based upon reality not based on what the nutcases at either end of the spectrum twist up.

By the way, for those reluctant to try the MRNA type vaccine, there is now a completely conventional vaccine approved.

From: TGbow
18-Jul-22
Covoid should be taken serious, I, my wife n daughter have had it twice. Getting vaxed should be the individuals choice. I know several people that had been vaxed and got Covid and it was rough on them and I know some that wasn't vaxed and died. Hard to say what to do but I just don't trust Fauci and his cronies..I do trust the people in the labs that are trying to do what they can to help develope something to help folks. Just wasn't enough studies on the Covid vaccine IMO

From: BowSniper
18-Jul-22
Note - the 3.3% is not the equivalent of plane crashes. It's a combination of ALL hospitalizations and deaths. And "hospitalizations" being getting sick, getting treated, and getting better might be more akin to bad turbulance in the plane analogy.... scary, but you survive.

They didn't separate out the death number in this article. But with 3.3% including all hospitalizations the death number has gotta be very small. It could be statistically near-zero among the healthy unvaccinated for all we know.

The takeaway is more of a relative comparison from the original Delta to the Omicron now. You will probably hear all kinds of fearful panic on the news. I thought it important to know that Omicron is many times less dangerous in a measurable way.

From: Pete-pec
18-Jul-22
Who funds the scientists, and why is there one on each side of any study opposing the other? Because scientists are whores to the highest bidder. That is a broad statement, but funding comes from people normally looking for a final outcome....in the favor of profit. That means there is an agenda before research even begins. Are all scientists whores? Of course not, but in the case of Covid-19 and the fact it was politicized, absolutely! When trillions of dollars are at stake, even good people may see things differently.

Thank you! A good day to you as well!

From: Treeline
18-Jul-22
The real travesty is that Fauci and the NIH are not on trial for the gain of function they were supporting in the foreign labs…

As well as the huge increase in young athletes dying from myocarditis and other healthy young people having serious injuries from these injections with a higher injury rate than all other vaccines over the last 30 years…

And still as yet unknown long term effects of these injections…

What is needed is Nuremberg 2.0, speedy trial, and swift, very public executions.

From: Aspen Ghost
18-Jul-22
Bowsniper, Plane crashes are varied in severity and result in both hospitalizations and deaths so it's a decent but not perfect analogy. And being hospitalized with covid is extremely serious and nothing like being scared from turbulance.

There are 45,000 flights a day in the USA. If 1,350 of them crashed every day would you fly?

From: HDE
18-Jul-22
"Remarkably uniformed and ridiculous statement. Do you have any other broad-sweeping statements you'd like to apply to all people of another occupation?"

Only applies to the ones that can't perform well on their own so they need an easy lunch ticket and will say anything to get it.

From: azelkhntr
18-Jul-22
I warned you. The body count is rising, but from the "cure" and not the chyna bug. US Coffin makers have received huge bulk orders for children's coffins. This has never happened before outside of a major war. Ahead of the xvax approvals for the wee ones.

From: Scoot
18-Jul-22
Pete, you believe what you believe- I'm obviously not going to change that. Why is there a study on each side of the issue-- because science is an iterative process and one that requires understanding and adaptability. Question, investigate, learn, refine questions, repeat. No doubt there are money whores out there, but like I said- you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

HDE- spot on.

AZ- sorry dude, you're insane. You really should seek professional help.

From: azelkhntr
18-Jul-22
From: Scoot18-Jul-22Private Reply AZ- sorry dude, you're insane. You really should seek professional help.

Right right. No one in my Family got the shot or masked or social distanced or any of that bs nonsense. No one I know who didn't submit to the x-serums regret not taking them; no one. We haven't had our GOD given DNA altered and we are not suffering from the vaids or myocarditis, pericarditis, heart attacks, blood clots, strokes, infertility, SADS, sterility, bells palsy, neuropathies, monkeypox or any other diseases associated with a chemically weakened or destroyed immune system. As far as med pros go, I am staying as far away from them as I can. My faith in modern medicine and its drug pushers has forever been destroyed. Just like my faith in the concept of Equal Justice under the Law.

From: Pete-pec
18-Jul-22
Scoot, I don't have a side. I promise. I distrust everyone equally lol. In all seriousness, I literally believe the wool is pulled over all our eyes. I've become very cynical and trust almost nothing any longer, unless it affects me personally, which in turn created a person who was once very empathetic into a person who lacks empathy. You are not my enemy. The people that pit opposing viewpoints against one another are both our enemies. I literally was vaccinated and had the booster. Caught Covid twice. I only got vaccinated because my place of work would pay people who were vaccinated to be off if tested positive. If you were not vaccinated, you did not get paid, but had to be off if you had the sniffles or any other symptom. So here I am, boosted, sick once, asymptomatic once, and wore that damn mask the entire time. I don't even know if the science on either side was real, because there is so much damn conjecture one way or the other. Shaming was rampant, because that's what humans do. I don't doubt for one second that Covid-19 was a bug that was worse than others. I don't doubt for one minute we lost people to it, but since the beginning of time, we have been bombarded with bacteria, viruses, plagues, etc., to actually make us stronger, and I think this pandemic sent us backwards (especially mentally and financially), and that recovery might take decades.....and we will both be dead and forgotten lol.

One final note Scoot. You can in fact change my mind. It just takes reasonable conversation and good logical arguments, and I believe you have conducted yourself fairly. That good day you and I talked about? It started when we woke up this morning. So carry on, and make it its fullest!

18-Jul-22
Covid sucks but society's reaction to it and the lack of focus and accountability on where it came from are far, far scarier.

18-Jul-22
They need a lockdown for the MidTerms as an excuse to play with voting procedures it won't work this time.

From: Dale06
18-Jul-22
One can find data and talking points on either side of the vax issue. I do not know the right answers, and not sure who does. I do have three cousins, late 50s to mid 60s that are dead while having covid. I do not know if covid killed them or not. One had health issues, the other two did not.

From: Scoot
18-Jul-22
Thanks for that post, Pete. Sounds to me like you and I have a lot in common, actually. I'm cynical by nature and this whole mess has taken a pretty cynical dude and turned him into believing little of what I hear. But a lot of what I hear is crazy talk too- just because we've been lied to about some of this (and there's no doubt we have) doesn't mean the whole thing is fake.

I'll admit my vested interest to you here- I am a scientist. My title at work is "Scientist" and I do science for a living. I can promise you that my science hasn't been impacted one bit by any of this. I truly don't know one other scientist (and I know a lot) who has let their objectivity be impacted by any of it. Are there some? Heck ya! But the vast, vast majority of scientists are not "money whores" and most of us just want to do good work that makes a positive difference in the lives of people.

From: spike78
18-Jul-22
Amazing that many young people are dropping like flies now including healthy athletes. Every story says “Unknown” cause. I don’t know what everyone else is seeing but every single person I know right now with Covid has been vaccinated and boosted. Honestly I’m starting to think these vaccines actually make your immune system go to hell just my opinion no facts.

From: Pete-pec
18-Jul-22
Scoot, science is all I know. My occupation is chemistry. See, through a little bit of conversation, we got through all that unsettling jargon, and got to a point where we see things just a little bit closer. My wife did cancer research for years, and because of the persistent grasp of those with an idea backed by money, she went a different route in her career. This sort of symbolizes why people need to have more conversation rather than knee-jerk reactions to something that triggers us. Covid-19 (and the overwhelming disinformation spewed by both sides) has triggered me. I triggered you by saying you're a whore lol. Without hashing it out (which is much easier in person), we could be sworn enemies, when in fact, I'd likely be one of your allies, simply because you haven't been infiltrated by those who choose greed over logical conclusions.

Again, please have a wonderful day.

Your friend,

Pete

From: Matt
18-Jul-22

Matt's Link
It's almost like the virus has mutated to a less virulent but more transmissible form - just like the scientist whores predicted it would at the onset of the pandemic.

CDC data (link) is demonstrating a vastly diminished protection from vaccination against death for Omicron as compared to Delta. But even though death rates for the unvaccinated have declined substantially under Omicron as compared to Delta, that rate is still ~6x higher for the unvaccinated. I agree with the notion that there is much less benefit to vaccination today than 1.5 years ago, but there is still a benefit.

18-Jul-22
@ Pete & Scoot -

Let’s go shoot a round at my Club and then grab a beer. Sounds like it’d go well.

Unless you’re compound guys. Total Deal-Breaker there…. ;)

From: Tilzbow
18-Jul-22
I wished I was shocked that some of the BS whatever they are still posting about lock downs (where are they) and mandatory vaccinations (never happened except for a very small subset). I also wished I was shocked when I see fools wearing a mask while driving by themselves or while walking outdoors when know one else is around. Sheep on both sides of the spectrum…..

From: 'Ike'
18-Jul-22
My personal care doctor was in a tizzy the other day at my appt and dressed in his 'hazmat' suit when he came in...I was like WTH Doc? He laughed and stated...Way more cases, less lethal and zero hospital admittance...Kind of like Matt pointed out!

From: Matt
18-Jul-22
"Sheep on both sides of the spectrum….."

That is false according to sheep, they only exist on the other side. ;-)

"Way more cases, less lethal and zero hospital admittance...Kind of like Matt pointed out!"

A friend works in a local hospital and is a COVID fear-er. When I spoke with her last week she said her hospital was full....with discretionary surgeries. Not seeing the COVID hospitalization to any significant degree anymore.

From: Pete-pec
18-Jul-22
Corax_latrans.....now that's funny! I'd love to have a beer. I'll just leave that wheelie-thing at home lol.

19-Jul-22

4nolz@work's embedded Photo
4nolz@work's embedded Photo

From: Stix
19-Jul-22
I trust my doctor. He has treated me when I got a pulmonary embolism, hypertension, high cholesterol, headaches, etc. And should I become diseased with some other illness, I'll abide with his direction. I believe it's the same with all of you also.

He told me he recommends the covid vaccine. I'll listen to his recommendations before I listen to the armchair transmissible disease specialists of the bowsite, internet, conspiracy theorists, radical political groups, or any other medically uneducated people.

I am also wary of folks who put their trust into websites spreading misinformation on covid, just like the misinformation on the main stream media. The folks who follow these consiracy theory websites are like lemmings walking out to sea to their death.

Get educated from reliable, educated sources and make an informed decision on the vaccine, or any other matter. Then be confident in your choice and live your life. It's nobody's business but your own.

From: Scoot
19-Jul-22
Corax and Pete- I'm in! I'll even buy (even if some call me a money whore-- lol).

Pete, just so we're clear- I'm 100% good with being called a whore. Just please don't call me money whore!

From: Genesis
19-Jul-22
Matt +1......

19-Jul-22
The Spanish flu was weakening until a mutation that didn’t. Still learning.

From: South Farm
19-Jul-22
Take more than a 32" moose from Newfie to get me to care if I ever cross the border again. Plenty bear and walleye on this side..

From: Brotsky
19-Jul-22
This azelkhntr guy is certifiable. My Lord, how many like him are out there now? If Bowsite is a representable population then we are screwed, because there's about 10 more guys just like him posting on here now.

From: bluedog
19-Jul-22

From: azelkhntr
19-Jul-22
Brotsky. Just doing my part to raise awareness and alarms. Keep your blood pure. You don't believe big pharma and the gubmint are actually concerned about your health do you? LOL! They can't profit off of the healthy and aware.

From: LINK
19-Jul-22
I’ve never been vaccinated. If I hadn’t lost me sense of smell for the last 8 months I’d say that I’ve never had covid. Yep we need to lock down again.

From: Scoot
19-Jul-22
Brotsky, I'm pretty sure that AZ has been recruiting folks to come to bowsite from his tinfoil hat club. His posts are pretty funny though! Delusion and paranoia are sickly amusing, right until you realize how sad and misguided they are sometimes. ...and, the hint of truth behind some of his ramblings just adds fuel to his fire and suggest (to him) that the rest of his ridiculousness is correct.

Meh, I've moved on from that now though. I'm more focused on how to get a beer with Pete and Corax!

From: Matt
19-Jul-22
We live in a country where, as of 4/22, a survey yielded that 2/3 of Republicans still believed the 2020 presidential election was stolen despite not material evidence to support the claim. Some people just want to believe, whether there is no evidence or substantial evidence to the contrary.

It is not surprising that people are still parroting things that are untrue about COVID. Looks like some people still believe a bunch of athletes died due to COVID vaccines. The grand irony in all this is first claim of this related to the 6/12/20 cardiac arrest death of Danish soccer player Christian Eriksen. He actually had not been vaccinated against COVID. Some just want to believe (or more specifically, some people with an agenda just want others to believe) that his death was in clearly caused by a vaccine he had not been given.

19-Jul-22
AZ and Dano...Cousins!

From: azelkhntr
19-Jul-22
I for one don't believe the 2020 election was stolen. I know that it was. Many of you just don't get it. The covid is a mild bio-engineered weapon released upon the general public so that the heroes; big pharma; could sweep in with the magical elixirs guaranteed to cure and lessen the symptoms of the china bug. The x-vaxs existed prior to the release of the bug. The serums are a ticking time bomb rewriting your DNA and destroying your immune system. If you're a healthy individual this will take time to achieve but unhealthy and you have less time. 1-5 years till you die of some immuno-compromising disease or cancers. If I convinced even one person here to not take the serums, to wait it out and see, then I am happy. The goal was and still is global depopulation. Recall the 1st. Rule of Carlin. If the government tells me something is true, they're lying.

From: Scoot
19-Jul-22
See...

From: PECO2
19-Jul-22
People also believe Bush stole the election, and Russia stole the election for Trump. People believe Hillary has never done any wrong. People believe Trump is going to prison after these hearings. LOL

From: Scoot
19-Jul-22
Matt, if the election had gone the other way do you think it would be the same, except with the Dems believing in a manner similar to your last post?

The big problem, of course, is that Americans have lost faith in our government. Republicans more than democrats, but both believe they are lied to by the politicians/government on a regular basis. Some loonies extrapolate that to a "everything is a lie" stance, which also isn't true. Some of these loonies say a lot of accurate things (not AZ- he's just certifiable) which makes me think "yep, yep, that's right". Then all of a sudden they go off the deep end and my brain hits the skids and I not only don't agree with them, but they are so out of touch I don't want them on my side anymore!

As far as what Republicans really believe in your poll, I just chalk it up to a total lack of faith and trust in our (now lib led) federal government. They could report today that the sky is blue and a lot of Republicans won't accept it because of the source. But... ya lie to a group enough and that group will quit believing anything you say (even when it's true). ... and no investigation or study (which folks will claim as paid for and not one iota objective) will change their mind.

I knew I should have never opened this thread! Haha! Actually i made 2 new friends, so it's all good!

From: PECO2
19-Jul-22
People believe electric cars will save the planet.

From: azelkhntr
19-Jul-22
I'm sure most of you here have taken the x-vaxs of one manufacture or another. Your choice. But for GODS sake do not give them to the wee ones. Protect the children.

https://granitegrok.com/blog/2022/07/covid-vaccination-remember-when-i-said-id-wait-until-the-human-test-trials-are-over

From: Pete-pec
19-Jul-22
Big grin Scoot. We're basically next door neighbors with a small river separating us, but we should cross that bridge and have a beer. Corax lives in other, so perhaps he comes up the river in a boat, and we meet at one of those sandbars? I'm buying!

From: Brotsky
19-Jul-22
I rest my case Scoot! I'll have a beer with you if those guys can't. We better do it fast though, I only have about a year or two left to live before my DNA is rewritten into some Resident Evil type apocalypse! Ha!

From: azelkhntr
19-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
Golly gee I wonder what the common denominator could possibly be?

From: South Farm
19-Jul-22
Whether or not kids die from getting vaxed, do you really think the party currenty marching in the streets mad as hell because they can't get an abortion this second, like you buy a can of pop in a vending machine, really gives a crap?!? They could care less and are more than willing to chance it. Too bad their mothers didn't do likewise once upon a time..

Anyway, I believe this whole Covid thing was concocted on purpose as just one more means of pitting us all against one another, and ain't that the ultimate goal anyway, to divide and conquer? It's working!

From: Scoot
19-Jul-22
Pete- deal!

Brotsky- deal!

AZ- the common denominator to your posts is you. That's the only thing that ties any of that nonsense together.

From: 3arrows
19-Jul-22
We need to pray for them who got the shots.We need to watch the free movie 2000 mules on utube.

From: Matt
19-Jul-22

Matt's Link
"Matt, if the election had gone the other way do you think it would be the same, except with the Dems believing in a manner similar to your last post?"

Not at all, and here's why. We don't have to look back too far to see actual Democratic responses to elections they legitimately believed they had won by virtue of their candidate having received more popular votes but having lost the electoral vote (they mostly just didn't understand the rules). The big difference here is that fact pattern actually occurred - twice (2016 and 2000), whereas there has been no compelling proof to support Trumps claims that there was any material manipulation which affected the 2020 election results. When the dems lost there wasn't a large contingent of their voter base that went down the conspiracy theory rat hole and there was no storming the capital. None of that ridiculousness.

Peripherally related, In Yavapai County, AZ 2 elections officials are leaving their jobs because of threats they have received surrounding Trump's loss in the 2020 elections. What is lost on many is that both election officials are Republicans and Trump won the county by a 2-1 margin.

Are we all OK with that? I for one am not. IMO we need to stop believing that this nonsense doesn't represent a threat to our republic at some level. People need to start getting their heads on straight (or yank them out of their asses) or I fear there will be severe consequences.

"That's the only thing that ties any of that nonsense together."

For the win

From: Stix
19-Jul-22
Azelkhntr,

All, not some, but all of your referenced websites are dominated by bigoted, alt-right conspiracy theorists. Your credibility is severely compromised by referencing them.

From: BULELK1
20-Jul-22
I got my 4th shoot/2nd Booster yesterday.

A pinch sore this early AM.

I'm ex-military so getting yet another shot is nothing for me.

Good luck, Robb

From: Ermine
20-Jul-22
I’m the only one at my fire department that didn’t get vaccinated. I’m also the only one who hasn’t been sick. Everyone else has gotten sick and had Covid multiple times. Interesting. When the president said I would be the one that would suffer and die lol

From: KSflatlander
20-Jul-22
Good for you. Just thank your firefighter brothers/sisters for caring and smart enough to get vaccinated. It doesn’t just protect them but also you.

From: LINK
20-Jul-22
Yes it protects him so well. As he stated everyone else has gotten sick multiple times. It must just protect him. So if it only protects the ones that don’t take it, why take it?

From: 70lbDraw
20-Jul-22
“Just thank your firefighter brothers/sisters for caring and smart enough to get vaccinated. It doesn’t just protect them but also you.”

Yeah… everyone at the station that got vaxed, got sick. But Ermine can only credit his health and lack of COVID to the fact that the rest of the crew sacrificed themselves to get vaxed?!?! Lol!

Are you actually listening to yourself right now?

And you wonder why nobody takes the whole COVID thing seriously?

From: fuzzy
20-Jul-22
Two years ago I commented on a couple of COVID threads advising people not to panic. I got roasted.

20-Jul-22
I just got over Covid for the third time. Last week precisely. I was so sick I participated in the first shot on the Leatherwall. Hung a new garage door. Modified some wild edge steps and tried out my new aider system for them, cut my grass. Changed the oil in my trucks, fuel filters in the diesels as well, demo’ed out my bathroom tile, and a host of other things.

I also find it ironic we have guys talking about election fraud. How ignorant it is there is no proof to believe what your eyes and ears tell you. I wasn’t aware that any state heard a case that really mattered. But, don’t let that stop the condescending preaching and Edumication you are giving the dumb ones.

I guess life is all about perspective. I’m glad we have the smart ones to guide the dumb among us.

What a bunch self righteous, condescending, shame mongering pieces of intellectuals we have as bowsite regulars. We are so lucky there are three to four of them to tell us that all the time.

20-Jul-22
Lots of things to consider when deciding on the vax.

Like many things in life we can't be experts at everything so some things you have to do your best with the information available and advice from others who you trust and should be better informed.

Unfortunately, the government is making incorrect choices on all sorts of issues right now so what should be a source to take seriously is currently carrying very little weight.

From: Treeline
20-Jul-22
Un-injected and will stay that way. Good luck to both the injected and uninjected through coming years.

Finally caught the dreaded virus on a trip to Houston a couple of weeks ago. Happy that my God Given immune system worked and I thank Him for that. Was tired and had a headache for two days.

My wife got hit a bit harder, probably because she went to work and didn't rest. She is going on 2 weeks without being able to smell or taste.

Yup. All the draconian mandates for masks, shots, injuries from the shots, shutting down businesses, and stripping people of their God Given Rights was and is totally worth it... If you are in favor of destroying personal freedom and instituting a totalitarian one-world government order with no rights - unless you are part of the "elite"!

From: Scoot
20-Jul-22
Thanks for the response, Matt. I agree with your reply in several ways, but don't in a couple. One thing that doesn't hold up is that people's reactions to finding out they didn't understand how something works vs. believing they were lied to/screwed/manipulated is generally very different. This makes your analogy a comparison of apples and oranges IMO. Also, and maybe even more relevant is a historical component to the deal-- times were different then, frankly. It wasn't all that long ago, but the amount of political discontent and general disdain for the other side of the aisle has changed markedly in that time. Relatedly, Trump fanned the fames of that discontent.

All that being said, I am 100% on the same page with you in our take on how shameful many people's behavior was after the election and how ridiculous some people's take is on whether Trump lost the election or not (he lost folks, just admit it). Believe it or not, it's ok to be a conservative Republican and make the statement I just did. Many don't believe that to be the case, but it is.

Ermine, I'm glad to hear you have stayed healthy through the whole deal. I 100% support your right to choose whether to get the vax or not and I'm glad your decision has worked out well for you. I got vaxed because I believe it was the right choice for me (and my wife and kids), but that was my choice. Fortunately the libs haven't taken away our ability to make our own personal health choices (yet).

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jul-22
I’m unvaccinated and covid-free, so far. All the unvaccinated people I know who have contracted the most recent strain said it was basically like a mild cold, so It doesn’t worry me anymore.

That said, I met a epidemiologist while fly fishing in Wyoming a few weeks ago. We discussed how the Covid variants have had progressively milder symptoms. He then made a prediction that raised my eyebrow. He said that he feared the “next go around is going to be worse than the first.” He didn’t go into specifics, and I didn’t ask for any. But it did give me reason for pause.

Matt

From: spike78
20-Jul-22
Just read yet another young athlete 35 years old ex college football player out for a jog and has cardiac arrest and dies. Now I don’t have any proof it was the vaccine but it seems a lot of this is going around.

From: Matt
20-Jul-22

Matt's Link
"Just read yet another young athlete 35 years old ex college football player out for a jog and has cardiac arrest and dies. Now I don’t have any proof it was the vaccine but it seems a lot of this is going around."

The risk of getting myocarditis from COVID-19 is many times higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccines. This information is well-documented and has been available for months. It is interesting to me that people want to blame the thing that is less likely to be the cause while totally overlooking the thing that is more likely to be the cause, and which can be protected against by the less likely cause.

People are going to see what they want to see...

From: elkmtngear
20-Jul-22
"People are going to see what they want to see"...

Certainly truth there, and, that's why you are quoting from such a "non-biased" source, right? ("The Conversation"), lol !

"Academic Rigor...Journalistic Flair" !!

Just pop over to their "Politics" link...no bias there!!

Maybe a little more "Journalistic Flair" than "Academic Rigor"??

20-Jul-22
Covid can elevate the risk of myocarditis. The vaccine can elevate the risk of myocarditis.

Since the vaccine is poor at keeping people from getting Covid, does the benefit of the vaccine add or decrease the risk of myocarditis when you get Covid anyway and quite often is fairly mild?

I'm not sure anyone has that answer and we know individual reactions to Covid and vaccines vary widely. I'm sure some are convinced they know but I'm not impressed with the accuracy of experts on either side of this issue so far.

From: Scoot
20-Jul-22
"I'm sure some are convinced they know but I'm not impressed with the accuracy of experts on either side of this issue so far."

As well you shouldn't be! Lots of inaccurate info has been disseminated about it. Mostly that's for a few reasons, but two biggies are: 1) political agendas, 2) covid is an impressively moving target.

Regarding #2, some have concluded that since some info reported by experts ends up being inaccurate, then everything they say is inaccurate/a lie. Science is an iterative process, even when studying static phenomena (i.e., things we "knew were true" at one time end up not being true or are only partially true). When the object of study is changing constantly like covid, you're going to get "facts" that end up being inaccurate or incomplete. For those reading who believe that means science is BS, then use some other belief system to form your conclusions. Many will, and if that works for them, then that's great. I'm am empiricist by nature (not perfectly, but about 95% so) so I'll keep on using science and accept that it's imperfect, but a hell of a lot better for me than any alternative I've found.

Ok enough for me on this topic! I'll quit posting in here for a while. Mostly it's not good for my mental health. Have a great rest of your day folks!

From: spike78
20-Jul-22
Oh just read another. Charles Johnson 50, former NFL player unexplained death. Once again no proof but you can’t deny people are dropping like flies with all “unexplained” reasons.

From: azelkhntr
20-Jul-22
^^^^^ SADS. It wasn't till 2022 that we started to see soccer players, all x-vaxd, drop on the pitch like flies and they report it as if its normal. Young super healthy athletes don't just drop dead period. Is any athletes health screened and monitored more than the pro-soccer player? What could be the common denominator? Hmmmm.......

From: Matt
20-Jul-22

Matt's Link
"Certainly truth there, and, that's why you are quoting from such a "non-biased" source, right? ("The Conversation"), lol !"

The Conversation is pretty highly rated in terms of factual reporting and considered to be centrist in its reporting. What is your specific problem with the source or the underlying studies/data? Or do you just having nothing more substantive to respond with than "lol"?

The attached link is from Yale and compared the incidence of myocarditis between those who had COVID and those who were vaccinated for COVID. Data collected on 19K athletes showed that, of those who had COVID, 0.7% had cardiac involvement. Of those who were vaccinated against COVID, the incidence was 12.6 cases per million, or 0.00126%. Ergo, a vastly smaller risk from the vaccine than from the disease.

The link below is for an NIH article which indicates "The risk of myocarditis linked with COVID-19 illness is several times greater than the risk from vaccination, and it is often more serious."

Same messaging albeit not to as significant a degree.

So, for anyone whose knee jerk reaction is to assume any athlete death must be due to vaccines, you should really reconsider your thought process because all the data I have seen indicates it is more likely to come from the disease itself and not the vaccine.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/covid-19-vaccines-myocarditis

From: ohiohunter
20-Jul-22
But the vax does not prevent infection, so you cannot conclude vaccinated individuals will have lower instances of myocarditis. Furthermore sudden cardiac death from myocarditis is low and should be substantially lower in young adults, and even lower in young elite athletes.

From: spike78
20-Jul-22
Matt, that only holds water IF they don’t conclude these people are dying from the vaccines which they will never admit on a grand scale.

From: Matt
20-Jul-22
"But the vax does not prevent infection, so you cannot conclude vaccinated individuals will have lower instances of myocarditis."

Infection by the virus and having clinical symptoms of the disease are two different things, and the vaccines still do a decent job of reducing severe illness and death.

I'm a bit amazed that 2 years into the Pandemic and people who are active in the discussion still don't understand the difference.

"Furthermore sudden cardiac death from myocarditis is low and should be substantially lower in young adults, and even lower in young elite athletes."

And yet that demographic description overlaps with the group is disproportionately affected by myocarditis from the mRNA COVID vaccines (young males). The NCAA actually changed its protocol for when athletes return from a COVID-19 infection due to this risk.

"This may pose an especially high risk to competitive athletes, in whom myocarditis is a top cause of sudden death. In light of this development, the Big Ten Conference now requires comprehensive cardiac testing for student athletes before they can return to play after COVID-19 infection."

https://www.thecardiologyadvisor.com/general-cardiology/heart-inflammation-after-covid-19-infection-in-athletes/

From the URL embedded in my prior post:

"Men and boys between the ages of 16 and 29 have been most often affected by COVID-19–vaccine-related myocarditis, usually a few days after their second dose.5 Myocarditis may be due to their strong immune response to the vaccine."

"Among teenaged boys — the group with the highest risk of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccination — the risk is between 2 and 5 times higher after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after vaccination."

Can we agree you pretty much aren't going to die of myocarditis if you don't have it?

From: azelkhntr
20-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
If you listen, they tell you.

From: azelkhntr
21-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
I guess next they'll blame Pandora.

From: spike78
22-Jul-22
And yet more athletes in their 40’s are dropping along with a 43 year old actress. Also American Pickers star just had a stroke in his 50’s. Hmm

From: Matt
22-Jul-22
"And yet more athletes in their 40’s are dropping along with a 43 year old actress. Also American Pickers star just had a stroke in his 50’s. Hmm"

It is funny that you don't even understand the implications of your comment. The likely answer is right there in front of you, and then you closed your eyes, turned around, and walked away.

"It's easier to fool a man, than convince him that he's been fooled."

From: Thornton
22-Jul-22
I've ran more code blue heart attacks on men in their 40's and 50's than any other age groups in my time in ER. I certainly wouldn't say all those have anything to do with the vaccine.

From: Sean D.
22-Jul-22
I am unvaxxed and did not wear a mask at all. I caught covid late March of 21'. My wife and son had it at the same time, they were pretty sick. I was not sick at all. I did lose my taste and smell for 3 days. I was told by the Dr. that i would have antibodies for around 6 months but should still get vaxxed. I respectfully declined. I took an antibody test around Christmas time and still showed a high amount of antibodies. Took another in Feb and then another in June, all showed antibodies. To this day none of us have caught it again even after being in close contact with infected people. I unknowingly drank after a friend who was positive and still didnt get it. I could care less if people get it or not . Whatever makes you happy, go for it! The vaccine won't make covid go away, It will go away when people stop talking about it

From: Nemophilist
22-Jul-22
"Good for you. Just thank your firefighter brothers/sisters for caring and smart enough to get vaccinated. It doesn’t just protect them but also you." "LOL" "LOL" "LOL" Now that's funny.

From: spike78
22-Jul-22
Thornton, thanks for the insight as that is sure scary as I am 44. Out of curiosity what are the causes of heart attacks in that early age?

From: azelkhntr
22-Jul-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo

From: Tim257
22-Jul-22

Tim257's embedded Photo
Tim257's embedded Photo

From: Tim257
22-Jul-22

Tim257's embedded Photo
Tim257's embedded Photo

From: 70lbDraw
22-Jul-22
“DR. BIRX: I knew these vaccines were not going to protect against infection. And I think we overplayed the vaccines, and it made people then worry that it's not going to protect against severe disease and hospitalization. It will. But let's be very clear: 50% of the people who died from the Omicron surge were older, vaccinated. So that's why I'm saying even if you're vaccinated and boosted, if you're unvaccinated right now, the key is testing and Paxlovid. It's effective. It's a great antiviral. And really, that is what's going to save your lives right now if you're over 70, which if you look at the hospitalizations, hospitalizations are rising steadily with new admissions, particularly in those over 70. And so if you live in the South - I know people keep talking about the fall - I'm worried about the South. “

From: Matt
22-Jul-22
It is funny that azelkhunter, who has not posted an original thought of his own but only regurgitates BS he finds on shadowy websites, had to go to England to find a death cert that references a COVID vaccine complication. And for a vaccine that I believe is not even approved for use in the US.

From: azelkhntr
23-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
Here comes the 2nd. lockdown hammer blow to Freedom. Monkey pox = herpes zoster virus = bad shingles. Matt, Lisa Eve was a daughter and a wife. The fact she lives in England and the DC came from there is irrelevant. It's the coroner's conclusion that matters, not where the report came from.

From: spike78
23-Jul-22
Yup Monkey Pox coming to an election near you. Very strange pandemic after pandemic. Nothing to see here move along sheep.

From: fuzzy
23-Jul-22
Monkeypox indeed

From: azelkhntr
24-Jul-22
Seems to be that if you're not always packing fudge or cruising around with the other lgbtqxyz'erz your chances of getting the mpox are next to zero.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
Ksflatlander- more of your garbage. Explain that to 3 of my vaccinated coworkers that had covid worse than I. 2 are RNs. One is young, in excellent condition and was vaccinated and boosted. She had covid so bad, she was 68% on RA and ended up on home 02 for 3 months, missing work. The other RN, a 50 year old, ended up with permanent lung damage. The APRN also was vaccinated and boosted, and was sick for a week, 02 in the 70's and she had to prone herself to breathe during sleep. I and about 40% of the rest of the department were unvaccinated, and our group did better than the vaccinated group.

From: Jim Moore
25-Jul-22
Never vaxxed, never been sick. Same with my wife. Oldest son caught it (so he thinks) along with his wife. Mild cases. Seems like all the people I know with the shot, got sick and spread it to others. Worked with two guys before I retired last year that got the shots and requisite boosters as a condition of the job. They've both had it twice and have missed weeks of work. One of them was in the ER for a few days.

Crazy how that crap infects people differently. The ones I know that had it bad were pretty out of shape (considered obese). Stay healthy. We take some vitamin supplements with a extra dose of zinc. Not sure if that's a player in all this but seems to work for me and mine.

Makes one wonder if the resurgence of cases so close to the mid-terms isn't a thing. I mean, not to sound like a nut-case conspiracy guy, but it does seem timely. My state allows vote harvesting so collecting your neighbors' ballots so they don't have to be in public could be a thing.

From: ohiohunter
25-Jul-22
I wonder if a cv19 positive president will spark yet another booster. At what point are predictable coincidences no longer considered coincidences?

25-Jul-22
We aren’t supposed to wander anything. Only accept everything we are told to be right. To shut up and do it. By this point, we’d run a circle. And billions more would be spent to keep us circling.

All the while, we’ve got zero coverage on a presidents son who undoubtably committed treason. A president that’s committed treason. We’ve got a media telling us Ukraine is Holding off the Russian federation, which in some ways, are more advanced then we are military wise. We are giving billions to the Ukrainian government, that we installed. To hold off those nasty Russians. Etc…….

We are on the brink of war here. And stand 2 super sonic missiles away from having a non functioning society.

But, let’s talk about Covid so the American people doesn’t look at history. Or ask any questions why Putin did this.

From: fuzzy
25-Jul-22
WVMountaineer pretty much nailed the issue

From: KSflatlander
25-Jul-22
Thornton- way to put that associates degree to good use LMAO. Yep why would there be any other response from a bed pan technician who tries to pretend to be a doctor.

He’s a legend…just ask him.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
I'm a critical care RN dip shit. Feel free to look up my certifications in TNCC, PALS, ENPC, ACLS, BLS and NIHSS not to mention my ECCO ICU training.These are not certifications required by a med/surg floor RN. The worst things you've ever seen on TV, like blood covered trauma bays, is my daily job. If your worthless carcass ever needs to go to an ER for a MI or stroke, you better damn well hope your RN has my certs and isn't some new grad lol.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
My resume is on file with just about every ER RN travel company in the country. I'm on contract at this very moment at the biggest trauma ER in Wichit. "Bed pan" Med/surg RNs do not get these offers...

From: spike78
25-Jul-22
KS is another angry liberal.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Or maybe this one?

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: KSflatlander
25-Jul-22
Lol again with the money thing. You think money makes you a man? Your insecurities are oozing. You should get that checked out by a psychiatrist (i.e., a REAL doctor).

I appreciate what you and all other nurses do. But you pathetically try to over play your hand here constantly. You don’t have to do that but yet you do to cover for your personal inadequacies. It’s telling.

Posting what you observed in your ER about Covid is an expected reply from an associates degree. As if it means anything medically. This is why you aren’t allowed to prescribe patient treatment or medication. Frankly, your posts on Covid have flip flopped from “who cares no big deal” to “ It’s serious” back to “I’m not vaxed and didn’t get it.” You just follow along with whatever the thread trend is. Always a follower.

From: bigeasygator
25-Jul-22
All those screenshots show is that you're capable of signing up for marketing material lol

From: gflight
25-Jul-22
Wow Thornton,

You sure drew the ire of your fellow Kansans.

I guess you all must have some history.

From: Grasshopper
25-Jul-22
My deer season starts August 20th. Anyone want to talk bowhunting? Nah, didn't think so.

Im bringing a radio, not going to listen to NPR though.

From: TGbow
25-Jul-22
What has made this whole Covid thing frustrating for me is the fact that I don't trust the CDC, and I also don't trust a lot of the information that's came out from the may sayers concerning Covid. I've had it twice,along with my wife n teenage daughter daughter, thank God we are ok. I've also known people that have died from Covid. I take it serious but at the same time I don't trust Fauci and his cronies.

I trust the people in the labs doing their best to develope these vaccines, it's the upper crust I don't trust.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
Ksflatlander is not a "fellow" Kansan. Nobody can even verify if "he" is a male. He is a left wing, spineless liberal too afraid to post his real name out of fear. He stole his handle from our very own John Wiebe, a world class race car driver once sponsored by some of the biggest names in the business. John no longer posts.

Ksflatlander- I've never pretended to be a prescriber. Best I could do this late in life would be a nurse practioner or PA, and I already make as much or more than they do already with fewer responsibilities, so it would be pointless anyway. Familiarize yourself with 'standing orders'. In a Code Blue or rapid response situation, I and every other ER or ICU RN give ACLS meds without a physician present. Much like paramedics give meds based on symptoms with no physician in the aircraft or ambulance. Regardless if you get sedated by me with propofol in ER right before the doctor intubates you, or some hospice nurse is spoon feeding you Roxanol to kill you off faster, a RN is there when you're born, and we're there when you die. Get used to it.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
Spike78- coronary artery disease (CAD), hypertension (HTN), diabetes, and high cholesterol are 4 dangerous comorbidities to having a MI (myocardial infarction, AKA heart attack). I've treated heart attacks that presented code blue in younger age groups that had no comorbitities, but were on cocaine or methamphetamine. Hands down, smoking is the worst thing you can do. I don't see a lot of lung cancer, even in 50 year smokers, but I do see heart problems and emphysema/COPD 100% of the time. Also, genetics that predispose you to any of the above comorbidities or heart attack itself are probably the most accurate prediction of heart attacks. I've treated 4th generation patients that came from families where every male had a heart attack by age 40.

From: azelkhntr
25-Jul-22
Monkeypox is x-vax acquired shingles.

From: KSflatlander
25-Jul-22
“Ksflatlander is not a "fellow" Kansan.”

Wrong. I’ve lived in KS all my life. I’ve been living in KS longer than you. Actually a 5 generation Kansan.

“Nobody can even verify if "he" is a male.”

Wrong. Been with my wife for 20 years. I also have kids. How about you? There are some of the non crazies here who know.

“He is a left wing, spineless liberal too afraid to post his real name out of fear.”

Almost right on this one except for the spineless part. Everything else is pretty much right.

“He stole his handle from our very own John Wiebe…”

Wrong. Unless John has been on Bowsite since the late 90’s. I also believe his handle was not exactly the same as mine. Like I’ve told you numerous times. You got a problem with it take it up with Pat. Dishonesty and exaggeration are not virtues.

The rest of your dribble…it’s called a standing order for a reason.

Lastly Thornton, in the majority of our exchanges it’s you that pokes then you whine and get mad when I respond. You should put your finger in a glass of water, remove it, then look what kind of impression you made. A one upper…what a tool. You sure can dish it out but just can’t take it.

From: Matt
25-Jul-22
"Monkeypox is x-vax acquired shingles."

The lies never stop. Monkey pox and chicken pox/shingles are not caused by the same virus and the viruses not even in the same even in the same genus. Monkey pox is in the genus Orthopoxvirus like small pox, whereas the chickenpox/shingles virus is in the varicellovirus genus.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
Post your full name then. You're not a healthcare worker, you have no medical license of any sort, and you're an instigative internet troll that knows nothing. Don't forget to take your BPH and cholesterol meds.

From: KSflatlander
25-Jul-22
I’ll post my full name as soon as Pat makes everyone else do the same. You and Shawn keep digging. Even between the both of you it’s a few short of a full deck.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
Maybe I'll find a guy to uncover your IP address. They do it all the time with online gamers.

From: KSflatlander
25-Jul-22
It’s called a VPN. Keep threatening Thornton and you will regret it.

From: Thornton
25-Jul-22
It's not a threat. I figure anyone spineless enough to run your mouth as much as you do, needs held liable, especially for lible and slander. Funny thing is, you're an underpaid biologist. Ask the dead guy guy that tried to doze half a mile of my hedge trees and sued me when I didn't let him. I paid an attorney to drag that out 6 years until the guy finally died and I won. I highly doubt you can afford that kind of litigation. Your best bet is to be respectful and understand there may be a price for your trash talking. I'll be asking around and eventually we'll be able to put a face with the mouth. Certainly not one to have a clue about emergency medicine, and my bet is, I have more microbiology credits than you do with my 5 years of college.. I suppose you're one of the idiots responsible for the mass introduction of invasive species into our lakes that have decimated native species. Laughable at the least, that you would even try to enter into a conversation about medicine. Even funnier that you would try to threaten me. Shows how scared you are.

From: Matt
26-Jul-22
If only there was a private message function so the chest puffing could be taken offline…

From: KSflatlander
26-Jul-22
Are you in high school or something? Good grief. Unbelievable man child.

From: azelkhntr
26-Jul-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo

From: swatmedic
26-Jul-22
"Good for you. Just thank your firefighter brothers/sisters for caring and smart enough to get vaccinated. It doesn’t just protect them but also you."

You do realize this is complete BS right? Vaccinated individuals can spread the virus just as readily if not more so than unvaccinated individuals. New study data out this week actually shows that vaccinated/boosted individuals have a lower immune response to the virus and demonstrate a higher viral load when exposed compared to unvaccinated individuals with a healthy immune system meaning vaccinated boosted individuals are more contagious than healthy unvaccinated individuals..

From: azelkhntr
26-Jul-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo

From: Thornton
26-Jul-22
Matt- no chest puffing. Just replies to the constant attacks by an online character so weak and afraid he cannot post his real name. Not sure that is correct Azelelk. I was seeing 1-2 patients a day with chest pain after they were vaccinated in an ER that sees 80-100 patients a day, but cardiac workups were always negative. "Itis" simply means "inflammation of" so they could have had myocarditis and the cardiac workup still be negative. The vaccine was the common denominator especially with the young people with no medical history. Either way, it wasn't near the number that these conspiracy theorists were touting.

From: Matt
26-Jul-22
AZ, I found an article on a soccer player who collapsed on the field that you can use to further your agenda against COVID vaccines. It is titled "Soccer player dies after massive brawl during game was sparked by disagreement with referee’s decision".

From: azelkhntr
26-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
^^^^^ Cool story bro.

From: swatmedic
26-Jul-22
"It is funny that azelkhunter, who has not posted an original thought of his own but only regurgitates BS he finds on shadowy websites"

Really?? This coming from a guy who constantly posts "data and studies" from sources like the NIH and CDC, two of the most biased and agenda-driven entities that exist today. You constantly chastise others for being sheep believing what they want to hear when you yourself are as guilty of that as anyone here.. LOL..!

From: Matt
26-Jul-22
Only on the Bowsite is posting data and sources worthy of criticism while false data communicated via meme is taken at face value.

From: azelkhntr
26-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
Meh!

From: Jeff Durnell
27-Jul-22
I was immensely critical of and guarded toward the nih, cdc, fda, the gov and most health care professionals long before any of this crap. Now? Pfff, fogitabowdit. They really screwed the pooch on this one.

"Safe and effective (vaccine)"? Lmao. Yeah, good luck with that.

From: KSflatlander
27-Jul-22
“No chest puffing”

LMAO. Posting pay $$, shooting skills, threatening lawsuits, and physical threats. Only in Thornton world is that not chest puffing. Man child.

“You do realize this is complete BS right? Vaccinated individuals can spread the virus just as readily if not more so than unvaccinated individuals. New study data out this week actually shows that vaccinated/boosted individuals have a lower immune response to the virus and demonstrate a higher viral load when exposed compared to unvaccinated individuals with a healthy immune system meaning vaccinated boosted individuals are more contagious than healthy unvaccinated individuals.“

What new study are you referring to? Until you post this new information your claims are complete BS.

From: Scoot
27-Jul-22
"Only on the Bowsite is posting data and sources worthy of criticism while false data communicated via meme is taken at face value."

Hahaha, Matt that statement pretty much sums up this whole thread!

From: spike78
27-Jul-22
It’s hilarious you guys don’t doubt that a fast tracked experimental vaccine that is KNOWN to cause myocarditis can’t kill anyone. Just read the Top Chef guy died of a heart attack at 46. Yeah no way in hell right?

From: midwest
27-Jul-22

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo

From: swatmedic
27-Jul-22

swatmedic's Link
"What new study are you referring to? Until you post this new information your claims are complete BS."

LOL..! Unlike you clowns, I don't post BS.. I realize facts are like Kryptonite to you kind of people, but it doesn't change the reality.. The study was published by the Lancet and then in the Virology Journal by Dr. Kenji Yamamoto. The study was also covered in the Pandemic.News who's sources cite the NIH and the National Library of Medicine.. Don't bother looking for the study in any MSM source. They obviously won't cover it because it defies their false narratives.

https://pandemic.news/2022-07-21-virology-paper-covid-jabs-deplete-immune-function.html

From: spike78
27-Jul-22
Swatmedic don’t waste your time. You can’t fix stupid.

From: Matt
27-Jul-22
"It’s hilarious you guys don’t doubt that a fast tracked experimental vaccine that is KNOWN to cause myocarditis can’t kill anyone."

What's hilarious is you used a double negative (likely without realizing). I doubt you will find a single person on this site who doesn't believe there are risks to the COVID vaccines. The point, which has been well-documented, is that the risk of COVID is (or perhaps was) much greater than the risk of the vaccine.

What you will find are a few people who will blame any cardiac-related death on the COVID vaccines even though COVID itself carries a many times higher risk of underlying conditions which can cause that.

"LOL..! Unlike you clowns, I don't post BS.. I realize facts are like Kryptonite to you kind of people, but it doesn't change the reality.. The study was published by the Lancet and then in the Virology Journal by Dr. Kenji Yamamoto."

Rich. You might want to re-read your references before citing "facts", claiming not to post BS, and calling other people clowns. Yamamoto did not do a study on COVID vaccine-relates immune function, he wrote an article in it - despite the fact the second article you linked said he did. This makes sense because Yamamoto is a cardiologist so not in a field where he would be doing studies in immunology. This article - again, not a study, which is probably why it is listed in the "Articles" section - was not published in The Lancet.

Yamamoto did cite studies done by others in his article, and the first was actually published by The Lancet. Oddly enough, the last sentence in the "interpretation" section of this study directly contradicts Yamamoto's thesis as follows "The results strengthen the evidence-based rationale for administration of a third vaccine dose as a booster."

"Swatmedic don’t waste your time. You can’t fix stupid."

I couldn't agree more. And yet I keep trying...

From: Thornton
27-Jul-22
It calls me a 'man child'...while it refuses to give a name, proof of education or experience, and is nothing more than an unhappy, internet troll. Understanding who your friends and colleagues are sheds some light on your attitude. After your claims that Bowsite does not require last names, you should read the whole thing.

From: Thornton
27-Jul-22

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: KSflatlander
27-Jul-22
I never made any claims about last names and registrations. When others have to use full names so will I.

Slander and libel cover factually false statements. Not opinion.

From: Grey Ghost
27-Jul-22
Get a room boys. It’s getting a little creepy for a public forum.

I took a break from sheep scouting and went fly fishing this morn. Landed 3 and missed at least 4 on a streamer in about an hour. Plan to hike a new to me trail tomorrow morn.

Carry on…

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
27-Jul-22

From: Scoot
27-Jul-22
Thornton, KS... how long you two been married?

Matt, I started a post similar to yours, but didn't bother. No point- they are right... can't fix stupid. The "study" was nothing more than a letter to the editor. If you don't understand that both covid and the vaccine carry risk, you're not very bright. How you make an informed decision about those compared risks is up to you. Also, one more thing-- citing a single study (had you actually cited the Lancet study like you tried to) that supports your narrative makes you a whole lot the the media coverage of this deal. It's simply selective and biased reporting of information that tells the story you want to tell. Good science follows all the data, not picks and chooses it.

From: KSflatlander
28-Jul-22
More like a crazy neighbor…

From: swatmedic
29-Jul-22
"Rich. You might want to re-read your references before citing "facts", claiming not to post BS, and calling other people clowns. Yamamoto did not do a study on COVID vaccine-relates immune function, he wrote an article in it - despite the fact the second article you linked said he did. This makes sense because Yamamoto is a cardiologist so not in a field where he would be doing studies in immunology. This article - again, not a study, which is probably why it is listed in the "Articles" section - was not published in The Lancet."

I never cited that Dr. Yamamoto was the one who conducted the study which, by the way, was based on data collected from thousands of individuals spanning multiple countries which is FAR MORE data than the selective data the CDC has been using for the last 2.5 years to justify the dozens of useless and destructive mandates they have imposed. They actual study was absolutely published in the Lancet and it is also linked to the article published in the Virology Journal, along with Dr. Yamamoto's article if you actually care to read it, but I'm sure you will dismiss it just as you have with every other study and opinion that contradicts the narrative that you choose to believe personally.

"Swatmedic don’t waste your time. You can’t fix stupid."

"I couldn't agree more. And yet I keep trying..."

This is laugh-out loud funny coming from someone who has discounted and dismissed every bit of data or opinion that has not matched your personal beliefs. This is not a demonstration of someone who possesses intellect. It's an example of arrogance and small-mindedness of a person who thinks they are a lot smarter than they really are..

I have over 30 years experience as a medic and a trauma nurse, and as a medical practitioner I have learned the only constant in the practice of medicine is that it is dynamic and fluid... Protocols and procedures are constantly changing based on the best medical science which derives from theory, debate, and then practice. We get some things right, but we also get some wrong, and smart people learn from this and continue to research and review data to improve.. An intelligent person would understand that. Because of this fact, my assertions that you and the KS guy are clowns stands..

29-Jul-22
Whoa! Better be careful pointing that out. As several bowsite regulars are implying any opinion based on science they don’t agree with, makes it useless.

I’d rather people just say what they feel versus using memes and declarations they believe in individual rights. Don’t change up, ridicule, or find ways to try and humiliate someone you disagree with. It’d be better if they just said it. That’s where discussion begins. Retaliation begins when your fellow man implies he’s sone his smarter. Using nothing but his preferred sources as proof.

I take stock in peoples experience. I also doubt anyone who finds righteous confirmation from people incapable of just saying what they believe. Versus saying what they wished you believed.

Thanks for the real world experience swatmedic. That Carrie’s a lot of weight in situations where the truth has been hidden. Or not consistent enough to be labeled as science.

From: swatmedic
29-Jul-22
"Matt, I started a post similar to yours, but didn't bother. No point- they are right... can't fix stupid. The "study" was nothing more than a letter to the editor. If you don't understand that both covid and the vaccine carry risk, you're not very bright. How you make an informed decision about those compared risks is up to you. Also, one more thing-- citing a single study (had you actually cited the Lancet study like you tried to) that supports your narrative makes you a whole lot the the media coverage of this deal. It's simply selective and biased reporting of information that tells the story you want to tell. Good science follows all the data, not picks and chooses it."

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem as well. The study is not an "article"...An article was written to the Virology Journal in regard to the data in the study.. Regardless, it really doesn't matter when you are going to be dismissive of anything that doesn't align with your ideologies. No point in arguing with a low-intellect hypocrite..

I have no ideology or agenda. I look at all the data and formulate my opinions based on everything that is credible and without bias which is extremely hard to find when it's related to Covid. The vast majority of the narrative the MSM has perpetuated in regard to Covid is pure BS.. The facts are we are still learning as we go. Smart people will admit that.. Anyone who claims to have Covid or the so-called "vaccines" figured out is a clown in my view.. A dangerous clown at that.. Tens of thousands have suffered or died needlessly because of so many "experts" perpetuating a false narrative.. You can add yourself to the list...

From: Matt
29-Jul-22
"I never cited that Dr. Yamamoto was the one who conducted the study which, by the way, was based on data collected from thousands of individuals spanning multiple countries which is FAR MORE data than the selective data the CDC has been using for the last 2.5 years to justify the dozens of useless and destructive mandates they have imposed."

Which study are you referring to specifically? You linked an article which references numerous studies. When I looked at the first (which was published in The Lancet), its findings directly contradicted the assertions made by the author of your article. Once I realized the author of your article either didn't read, didn't understand, or was misrepresenting the finding of that study, I saw no point in continuing. Let me know what I am missing here.

You then posted a link to an article which referenced a study and has that word as a hyperlink, but when you clink on the word "study" it brings up the same article you initially linked - which still is not a study.

From: KSflatlander
29-Jul-22

KSflatlander's Link
Swampmedic- the claim that unvaccinated carry less of a viral load (all things being equal in regards to variant) is simply not true. It has been proven that if you are vaccinated (for a varying duration) you carry less of a viral load and as a result have a reduced risk of spreading to others. That was what my original post was referring too.

Full disclosure. The reduced viral load in vaccinated individuals has not been seen with the latest variants. I’m guessing that is because the vaccines received were specific to previous variants.

From: RD in WI
29-Jul-22
My mom gave me COVID while visiting last weekend. My wife did not get it - despite sleeping in the same bed. My sister, who is living with my mom - did not get it either. It is just incredible how COVID effects people so differently and somehow skips some people who are in close proximity. My mom is 87 and had a fever for about 4 days and some nausea. I am 51 and had a fever for 3 days and some body aches. We were all vaccinated. Who knows how bad it could have been (or mild) without the vaccine.

From: Scoot
29-Jul-22
"Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem as well... No point in arguing with a low-intellect hypocrite."

Well... aren't you fun!?! Haha. Because of my reading comprehension problems, I'm just too damn dumb to understand your post. I am just a "low-intellect hypocrite" after all...

swatmedic, I have no idea why you are slinging mud and calling names in knee jerk fashion, and I frankly don't care. You believe what you believe and I'll do the same. I have no agenda or horse in this fight. Like Matt, for reasons I simply can't explain, I feel the need to call out BS and lies when they are spewed. Because of what I do, I also tend to defend the endeavor of legitimate empirical study (acknowledging that a small amount of it is unscrupulous, and driven by political/social agendas and not at all objective) and attack the misinformation I see related to it.

"The study is not an 'article'". It's obvious you don't understand the common nomenclature used in research.

"An article was written to the Virology Journal in regard to the data in the study." Right... so why are you referencing that letter to the editor instead of the actual study?

"Regardless, it really doesn't matter when you are going to be dismissive of anything that doesn't align with your ideologies." I absolutely don't dismiss the actual study (the article you referenced- I put little stock in that as I don't know the source or his understanding of the entire body of literature on the topic or whether he's not objective because of political, social, or some other reason) regardless of what it concludes.

I have looked at as much research and info as I can on the matter and I've formed my own conclusion. If you have formed a different conclusion based on the info you have examined, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. I've made my choices in a manner consistent with my conclusions and I imagine you have too. Not sure why you have to throw insults and act like an adolescent about it...

Finally, it sounds like you have some really good and relevant work experience. I also put stock in that too, particularly when I know the source.

I hope you stay healthy and happy and get out and enjoy this fall with a bow in your hands.

29-Jul-22
FTR, I actuallyknow Ryan (KSFlatlander) personally and professionally. He is a man, one quite capable of taking care of himself as well as accomplished. Like most described in a similar fashion, he feels no need to brag.

He has the right values IMHO, family comes first. A great individual, even given his lousy political instincts;-)

From: spike78
29-Jul-22
RD is your wife and sister vaccinated? It seems like the vaccinated are catching it a hell of a lot easier then the non.

From: azelkhntr
29-Jul-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
Rut rho!

From: Matt
29-Jul-22
I had an extra hour this afternoon and tried to decipher swatmedic's argument. In looking at the "Pandemic News" article, it says:

"Kenji Yamamoto, commenting on another recent study published in the journal The Lancet, says that eight months after receiving two doses of a Fauci Flu shot, a “fully vaccinated” person’s immune system is lower than that of an unvaccinated person."

When I look at Yamamoto's article, the source cited in support of that comment is a study titled "Risk of infection, hospitalisation, and death up to 9 months after a second dose of COVID-19 vaccine: a retrospective, total population cohort study in Sweden" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8816388/).

That study investigated the rate at which the COVID vaccine's effectiveness waned over time by comparing 2 cohorts totaling 1.7M Swedish individuals (half COVID vaccinated and half unvaccinated) over roughly a 9-month period. That study looked at the incidents of study participants 1) becoming infected by the SARS-CoV-2 virus and 2) having severe COVID-19 during the study period.

No place in the study do they compare broader immune function of participants by vaccination status. In fact, the study has no commentary on that at all. It only compares the rates of becoming infected by SARS-CoV-2 or contracting severe COVID-19 between the vaccinated and unvaccinated cohorts.

As I had referenced previously, the interpretation of the study data supports rather than undermines the use of COVID vaccines as outlined in the "Interpretation" section: "The results strengthen the evidence-based rationale for administration of a third vaccine dose as a booster."

From: Thornton
29-Jul-22
Most covid data was published before Omicron, which quickly attached to upper airways and did not activate lower airway memory cells. Prior infection did not help, and the vaccine fail rate accelerated.

From: Thornton
29-Jul-22

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: fuzzy
29-Jul-22
azelkhunter I believe the patents referred to are for a coronavirus testing method which was adapted to use for COVID 19, NOT an actual test for the specific Virus, remember that COVID 19 is a type of SARS- producing Coronavirus, and there are many known coronaviruses

From: Matt
29-Jul-22
"Most covid data was published before Omicron, which quickly attached to upper airways and did not activate lower airway memory cells. Prior infection did not help, and the vaccine fail rate accelerated."

I do not disagree with that, but that has no bearing on what swatmedic posted. Even the study he incorrectly quoted suggested that vaccine-derived protection from infection waned during the study period but that it continued to provide a good level of protection from severe disease.

My sense is that people don't so much worry about being infected by SARS=CoV-2, but rather from being debilitated by or dying from COVID-19.

From: RD in WI
30-Jul-22
Spike - my wife and sister are vaccinated. My mom had the booster shot a couple of months ago. What is most remarkable to me is that my mom has some serious health issues and had what amounted to a medium-strength flu. I am very healthy and had essentially the same outcome. My brother was in the hospital twice and his only outward health issue is maybe 30 pounds overweight. COVID is a crap shoot and its unpredictable nature is why I got vaccinated in the first place.

From: azelkhntr
30-Jul-22

azelkhntr's Link
Be afraid.

From: PECO2
30-Jul-22
Be very afraid.

From: shade mt
31-Jul-22
I still occasionally see somebody alone in a car wearing a mask...all the more power to em, bet that's really sweet on a hot summer day.

We have a college town, Penn state, over the mt, a more liberal area...definitely more mask wearers over there than on our side of the mt.

We all had the China virus..wife, kids, their families....all non vaxed...not one severe case.

Couple relatives outside our immediate family, got jabbed, got the virus....same thing if not worse.

I let people choose their own path..I expect the same .

If ya want the jab, or believe these people have at it....I'm a little hesitant to listen to them.

I mean look around...lol...ya trust anything these people say?...good grief they think it's normal to be confused about which bathroom to use.!

From: SteveB
31-Jul-22
Does anyone really care any more? Vax if you are so inclined and pass if you aren’t.

From: cath8r
01-Aug-22
Interesting how polarizing the topic has become and remains. More interesting how nobody could debate it.... well one side could.... funny how one side of the debate wasnt allowed to bring up their facts or evidence...everything the 'conspiracy theorists' claimed might happen has essentially come to pass. Our government (ontario) is admitting there is risk now.... something that would have gotten one kicked off of every platform before. Strange times we are in.

From: spike78
01-Aug-22
I was reading a study on what was killing the children was due to being isolated and not building up their immune system by being exposed to germs. Good job with the Covid lock downs!

From: Thornton
01-Aug-22
RD in WI- my vaccinated coworkers in ER had some of the worst cases. We a got real tired of "if you hadn't had the vaccine, it would have been worse"... tell that to Pam, a thirty something RN with no medical history and ended up on home oxygen for 3 months after dropping to 68 % on room air. She declined admission to ICU and she was vaccinated and boosted.

From: cath8r
01-Aug-22
The only people i know getting covid bad and multiple times are vaccinated. The more shots seems to make them catch it more often. I wouldn't care but its such a glaringly obvious observation.

From: azelkhntr
02-Aug-22
No more cold showers for me from now on. The "eggspurts" have determined after thousands of years of human existence that a cold shower can probably, maybe, could, possibly, might cause one to have a sudden heart attack or stroke. Man, to think of all the cold lakes and rivers I've swum in over 6 decades is chilling me to the bone. Whew! I'm a survivor.

From: ahunter76
04-Aug-22
our family-12 vax + booster-11 got Covid, mild except 1 hospitalized 1 night but has other medical problems 1 vax no booster, got mild Covid. 8 no shots (4 kids under 13, 3 got mild Covid & 1 Adult mild. 4 have not had Covid. So, all vax (13) got Covid but 1 (like 95%) & unvax 4 of 8 got mild Covid (50%).

From: azelkhntr
04-Aug-22

azelkhntr's embedded Photo
azelkhntr's embedded Photo
They tell us what they are going to do but no one believes them.

From: azelkhntr
04-Aug-22

azelkhntr's Link

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