Sitka Gear
Bookcliffs utah genetics..
Mule Deer
Contributors to this thread:
tjw 01-Aug-22
dmandoes 01-Aug-22
MA-PAdeerslayer 01-Aug-22
Treeline 01-Aug-22
Shiras42 02-Aug-22
LINK 02-Aug-22
[email protected] 02-Aug-22
elkmtngear 02-Aug-22
Michael 02-Aug-22
HDE 02-Aug-22
IdyllwildArcher 02-Aug-22
Yellowcat53 02-Aug-22
BOHNTR 02-Aug-22
midwest 03-Aug-22
tjw 03-Aug-22
Castle Oak 03-Aug-22
TimBuck2 03-Aug-22
dmandoes 03-Aug-22
TimBuck2 07-Aug-22
dmandoes 07-Aug-22
Bearman 07-Aug-22
Treeline 07-Aug-22
'Ike' (Phone) 07-Aug-22
Matt 08-Aug-22
tjw 09-Aug-22
Lonebilly52 08-Oct-22
Jim McNamara 08-Oct-22
t-roy 08-Oct-22
azelkhntr 09-Oct-22
Jims 09-Oct-22
From: tjw
01-Aug-22

tjw's embedded Photo
tjw's embedded Photo
just to clarify I'm not a biologist... I'm no expert on antlers regression with age.. I'm not saying this is a dink..lol... ok.. what I'm saying is there is a problem with the genetics.. in every bachelor herd with a 4 pt or two in it, there is a two or three or some combination that dwarfs it.. and again I know there is giants down there.. I've seen them. it is my third time down there hunting so I have an idea.. sorry for the long start .. but I posted this on another forum and was roasted for not knowing what I was talking about.. which is true inlot of instances..lol. but here is an example. he is close to 28 wide give or take.. honestly don't want to hear your guess.. he has a 4 inch dropper.. and yes I wouldn't shoot him until the last day.. and just to help the gene pool.. and make street tacos.. hence I named him Taco.. the last day buck.. ok have fun with it...

From: dmandoes
01-Aug-22
I would shoot him before a 170" 4x4.

01-Aug-22
Love that. I’d shoot him in a New York minute. Hunted a huge 6 point last year at home, he was 4x2 but his two side was just like him. Love the character.

From: Treeline
01-Aug-22
That would be a first day buck…

From: Shiras42
02-Aug-22
Just got an email from P&Y about Tavis and if the buck is good enough for him it would be good enough for me! :)

From: LINK
02-Aug-22
Poor genetics are everywhere. It is interesting thought that you think there’s an abundance of it in the book cliffs. I would be very tempted to shoot that one as he does it for me. That said if he’s standing next to a 170” plus, no way am i shooting the fork.

02-Aug-22
Maybe a genetic issue in the area but maybe there were a bunch of big forkys there 1000 years ago as well.

Bowhunters don't take enough bucks to be a problem or a solution to muley antler size or configuration so might as well just hunt and fun.

From: elkmtngear
02-Aug-22
Personally, I love giant forkys, and freaks!

He's everything I ever wanted, I'd be happy to take him out of the gene pool ;^)

From: Michael
02-Aug-22
I would shoot that buck in a heart beat.

As far as genetics go in a wild herd. There is no way man can alter that. Another thing is lots of hunters forget that the doe has half they say in what a bucks genetics will be.

There is a saying never pass on a buck the first day that you would shoot on the last day.

From: HDE
02-Aug-22
UT is on track to fix the gene pool with its eradication of tech crusade. I'd shoot him at first light, first day.

If you posted on a Utah forum, I can understand why you got roasted. People used to think New Yorkers were rude...

02-Aug-22
Several years back, I hunted the AZ strip (13a) and giant forks and 3x3s were the rule. Once they got bigger, they had a bunch of atypical points, but I saw tons of deer like that. I think it's just a matter of the 4x4s consistently being shot and genetics thus favoring forks and 3x3s.

From: Yellowcat53
02-Aug-22
I don’t believe in the don’t pass deer on the first day theory. I get it but Id rather hunt the full time than shoot a marginal buck the first day. He’s a cool buck not on day one tho

From: BOHNTR
02-Aug-22
I believe he’s way past his prime and living his last year in the Books.

From: midwest
03-Aug-22
I hope to one day draw that crappy genetics unit!

From: tjw
03-Aug-22
Its my buddies tag.. he drew it 5 years ago.. had a two years waiting period. and drew it with 2 pts.. he drew a limited elk tag with half the pts also.. good for him I guess.. lol.. some people r lucky

From: Castle Oak
03-Aug-22
There are not and cannot be "genetics issues" in a free-ranging deer herd. However, there are genetics issues in deer hunters :)

From: TimBuck2
03-Aug-22
Brings back memories. I shot a 2x2 muley on the last evening of my Book Cliffs hunt in 2009. 27 wide 25 tall. Looks identical to that buck. It was too unique to pass up on the last day.

From: dmandoes
03-Aug-22
U can't post crap like that without a pic.

From: TimBuck2
07-Aug-22

TimBuck2's embedded Photo
TimBuck2's embedded Photo
I usually don't care what people think or if they believe me or not, but I'll humor you Mr. Fuchs. The BCs are the land of giant 2x2s :)

From: dmandoes
07-Aug-22
2 thumbs up

From: Bearman
07-Aug-22
I don't know much about that region but, I'd rather shoot a 2x2 that scored 140 then a 4x4 that scored the same.

From: Treeline
07-Aug-22
The book cliffs moved up a notch in my list of mule deer hunting spots…. I want a giant forkie!

07-Aug-22
Excellent….

From: Matt
08-Aug-22
You can’t isolate genetics without knowing age. Could very well be an old, regressed buck and not what you think are bad genetics.

From: tjw
09-Aug-22
just my personal belief and observations. for the most part any bachelor group there has one or two big old 3pt or 2pt that dwarf any 4pts in the herd. u have to see it to believe it. we had a great scout trip and found a couple 175 plus bucks.. but even those bucks had buddies that dwarfed them in width , height, and mass. we have one three pt that lays out like a white tail that is 28 wide and crazy mass. the books they say are down half in pop.. but we still see about 80 bucks a day.. awesome place.. hope i live long enough to hunt it again..

From: Lonebilly52
08-Oct-22

Lonebilly52's embedded Photo
Lonebilly52's embedded Photo
Thought I’d share my BC results from this year.

From: Jim McNamara
08-Oct-22
Love the looks of that 2 by 2 . Might be a tad less impressive once velvet is rubbed. TimBuck2 that's a very cool rack. Great for a last day shooter. Lonebilly , nice , nice Mulie, congratulations! Man you guys make me want to hunt mulies again. If only I could grow new legs.??

From: t-roy
08-Oct-22
Congrats on your buck, Lonebilly!

From: azelkhntr
09-Oct-22
Some nice bucks eh. I think you're confusing genetics with habitat. The elk and deer of the Colorado Plateau in Ut and AZ benefit from a treasure trove of salts and minerals that others don't have access to.

From: Jims
09-Oct-22
This subject tends to be highly debated!

Here's some of my thoughts. The same thing with "poor genetics" exists in some of the "premier" units in Wyo that take years and years of pref pts to draw. Some of this goes back to years of 4x or better regulations and in many instances its from pressure put on large 4x4 framed bucks. If a 3x4 is standing next to a similar framed 4x4 I know which buck most hunters will choose.

Just because a unit is tough to draw doesn't mean that it couldn't use some tweaking to increase the quality of bucks available. I really think it's great that Utah has management/cactus buck tags available. It would be interesting to hear if this helps on the Henry's and Pauns units? It's a bonus having additional management buck type tags available in those units that opens additional opportunity for hunters.

Colorado is blessed with super genetics. Not only is this true in Western Colo but nontypical framed bucks in the eastern plains. I spend a lot of time in muley country in Colo and see 4x on each side when bucks are young. In fact, many units where I spend time have very few to 0 older age class bucks with 3 on a side. I attribute a large portion of this to genetics and putting extreme pressure on large 4x4 framed bucks. I've heard others that disagree but from what I've seen in Wyo and the photos of Book Cliffs bucks I would think this is a large part of what is going on. Yep diet and habitat impact antler growth in any given year but genetics, regulations, and hunting pressure dictate overall antler confirmation.

I really believe having management type tags available is a great idea. Maybe they should start it in the Books? From the posts above it sounds like many would be in favor of harvesting some of the older age class bucks that have 3 on a side? Are there still super 4x4 bucks available....yes....but I really believe things could be greatly improved with minor tweaking of regulations.

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