Mechanical Broadhead Drop Vs. Field Poin
Equipment
For those of you that have tested this, at what point do your mechanicals start grouping lower than your FPs? What distance do you start to see it, amount of drop and which mechanical?
My setup is somewhere between 60-65 yards. This is with a Sevr 2.0 and it is 1-2 inches of drop. At 72 it is much more noticeable, but I am not sure of the measurement.
83-88 with hypodermic 100s
I tune my bow so fixed blades and field points group together at 100
you have a up tear if your shooting low with your mechs
I can only shoot out to about 75 yards, and I don't experience any noticeable difference beyond my typical group size. Same with my fixed blade heads, although those have greater wind drift.
At some point even the sleekest mechanical broadhead hits low of field points.
Ermine mentions that he tunes his to hit at 100 yards. I'm guessing they are hitting high at 20.
The only way to test that would be in a controlled indoor environment out of a shooting machine.
I don't believe any sane ethical hunter would take a shot at that distance in which it would make a difference.
My mechs are in a tight group at about 90 miles. Still the package, at Cabelas. :) Never shot one.
At about 60 yds mine are about 2" lower than field points. Rage Trypan
There are guys that can consistently shoot groups out to 100 yds. the size of groups I shoot at 30. Those guys will tell you it's virtually impossible for even the sleekest mech to hit with a standard FP at that distance. A Thorn is probably the closest because it has zero appendages sticking out when in the closed position.
This sounds like one of those pointless discussions that used to (maybe still do) dominate the AT Forums. The very reason I left AT.
Physics tells us that anything with greater drag will slow faster when falling/gliding (arrows don't technically "fly"). So, YES they will eventually hit lower in relation. But, almost never enough to matter before their effective range limits.
A guy shooting 75# with a 31" DL will experience a longer effective range than a kid shooting 40# with a 24" DL. For this reason, the OP's question can and will have a seemingly infinite number of correct answers. Or, maybe this is just a poll?
I didn't mean to imply that this was a pointless thread. I'll take this any day over a political thread. My point was that questions like this one used to morph into weeks long arguments over there on AT.
My Wasp Jak Hammers fly identical out to about 60-65 yds. After that they drop off 1-2 inches and increasingly so at 100 yds I am about 8” -10” low.
Dino,
Mine seem to be similar to your setup. If you know, what is your setup? DW, DL, arrow weight, arrows speed, etc.
Bowfreak, I am currently shooting an Rx7 Ultra 65lbs at 30” with a 28.5” Victory VAP arrow, 430ish grains. I have not chronoed but think I am right around 277 fps.
Similar setup to me. My bow is probably 10 fps slower. RX4 Ultra 60#, 30.5", 460 gr arrows.
Yes, when I went from my rx3 Ultra to the 7, I went from a 19-21 Spot Hogg site tape with same arrows and 65# poundage.
I am shooting the #3 cam B. A lot of efficiency is lost by being on the front end of the cam, but I love the easy draw.
I practice out to 70 yards. My mechanical and fixe blade heads hit right with my field points. If tuned properly why would they not?
At longer distances (over 60), I've noticed a very slight drop in trajectory with both fixed blade heads and to a lesser degree with mechs. I suppose it could be related to more drag imparted on the helical vanes, as they are slowed a bit more than with fp's, in their task of twisting the shaft in flight. Or simply from more drag in the whole package.
Like Ermine, my fixed blade broadheads and my field points group together out to 100 yards. They also group together from 0 to 99 yards. Most of my practicing is from 70 yards and less. If the broadheads are dropping more than field points beyond 70 yards, the difference isn't noticeable.
"If tuned properly why would they not?"
Because field points don't have wings or protrusions causing increased drag.
Mike,
Justin said he tuned his BH and FP to hit together at 100 yards. I don’t think he’s claiming they group together from 0-100….at least I hope he’s not.
If you can get your hands on a hooter shooter, I’d love to see you actually shoot your BH and FP from 0-100 yards and record your findings.
No, he said he tunes his bow so they hit together at 100 yards. I'm not going to speculate or answer for Justin, but I doubt that his bow is out of tune for shooting less than 100 yards, but I suppose it's possible...
A hooter shooter might prove that my broadheads hit lower than field points at 100 yards but for my ability the difference isn't noticeable or outside my precision expectations.
I notice a drop at around 50 yds. Like Levi Morgan said, if your broadheads (mechanical or fixed,) and field points are shooting the same past 60 yds, you're bow's out of tune. It's physics, there is more drag. They will drop faster than a field point.
Sivart, they don’t drop faster. The added drag causes the arrow to slow down which lets the arrow drop further over the same distance. Gravity is gravity.
With my crossbow at 425 FPS field points and Jakhammers shoot identical at 50 yards. I don't shoot farther than that but could easily kill a deer at 100 yards with that set up. Where I hunt I can't see farther that 50 yards. Most deer are shot at 15-25 yards.
I have never shot a broad head into a target past 70 yards.
With that said my broad heads and field points have always grouped together at 70 yards.
Dead nuts at 50…Both Fixed and Mech’s!
"Because field points don't have wings or protrusions causing increased drag."
My fixed, Mechanical and field points all group together at 70 yds.
So I went out this morning. I shot a field point and a fixed blade at 30 yards. The blue vane is the fixed. I’d call that same poi
At 30 in my experience you won’t see a POI change and you’re playing with fire. Go do that at 60 and report back.
Then I stepped back to 100 and shot. 2 field points (pink) and 1 Iron Will fixed blade
Then I shot another group at 100 for the nay sayers. I’d say that pretty close to same poi at 100
I have also heard Levi Morgan say that you can’t get fixed blades to fly past 60 yards. I don’t agree. I shoot fixed blades at 100 almost daily. And yes while field points are more accurate and more forgiving fixed blades seem to hit with the field points for me. I know Levi Morgan is a pro and gets paid and I’m just a blue collar no body but this has been my observation over the years. Shane Chuning (the human hooter shooter as guys call him) tunes bows for a business. And he too says that you can get fixed to group with field points out to 100.
I heard Levi Morgan say fixed blades can’t hit with your field points ..and if they do then your bow is out of tune. I find that odd. But I guess my bow must be out of tune and I’m ok with that then
Those 100 yard shots are as good as my 30 yard shots. Looks good!
Being a world-class shooter doesn't make one a world class tuner. I'm still a better mechanic than most NASCAR drivers.
I wouldn’t want Ermine shooting at me :)
Thanks for the follow-up Ermine. My results are similar with field points and G5 Strikers, although my 100 yard groups are bigger.
Yea when it’s calm and I’m shooting I can shoot some pretty good groups. Can’t always shoot that well. And let it be stated that while I like to shoot at 100 yards I would Never shoot at an animal that far. 50-60 is my max on animal if conditions are perfect.
While we are on the subject of mechanical drop. Here is something I find interesting. In doing my own backyard hillbilly testing. I have found that some mechanicals actually drop quicker than some fixed blades. So just because it a “mechanical” doesn’t mean it shoots better than a fixed or shoots like a field point. I shoot different heads for the heck of it. I’ve found something like a rage trypan to impact lower than these fixed blades with short Ferrell’s. Just my observation I don’t think there is a broadhead out there that shoots “just like a field point”. I think every broadhead type has to be tuned to a guys setup
^^^^I wish we could like posts
It's not uncommon to have fixed heads a wee-bit high out to 30 or so yards. Those front wings "can" catch air while on the upward angle out of the bow.
I know this thread is supposed to be about mechanicals but,... FWIW my hunting setup has field points and Spitfires within acceptable group size of each other out to 75 yards, which is as far as I practice. My Fixed blade heads (both Stingers and Slick Tricks) hit approximately 1" high at 20 yards, dead on at 40 yards and 2" low at 75 yards. That's going by the center of the grouping in relation to the bullseye.
There goes Justin, traipsing around the woods with his untuned bow again.
I can tell you that they aren’t the same in a chronograph.
All things created equal, grains, tourqe and arrow, there is zero reason to believe a MH will impact lower than a Field Point.
Just think about it, all things being equal.
Decided to check tune on my bow for the year. Here is a group at 40 yards. Yep sure enough broad head (yellow fletch arrow) hits lower
I remain deadly at 12 yards!
Threads on AT weekly of guys complaining their mech heads don’t hit with their FP’s and saying “ Whats going on, I thought they would group without tuning”
Nope.
Even if your broadhead weighs identical to your field points but is physically longer and has protrusions, then there must be a difference in trajectory at some distance. Compound this with crosswind and shooting form deviations ... well, it probably won't make a difference at reasonable hunting distances.
I'd sleep better if that was Thornton's group,great shooting Ermine.
I’m not much of a distance shooter. Seems like no matter how much I tune my slick tricks they tend to fly slightly high & right of my field points. For me that’s OK as long as it’s consistent. When hunting season comes around I make a slight sight adjustment & practice only with broadheads. I shot Sonoran mechanicals for years before they became Schwackers. I think they shot better at distances out to 75 yards better than any other mech or fixed I ever tried. Swear I could shoot tighter groups with them than my field points.
It's not just Levi, it's Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas, too, but maybe they don't know how to tune, either. ;-)
I think for most of us mere mortals, it's a moot point. I can't see any difference in my groups when I'm shooting my best out to 80 with my field points and mechs. Also, not all fixed blades or mechs are the same. I'm guessing a small fixed blade like a standard 1-1/16" wide IronWill is going to group closer to a FP at 100 yds. than an IronWill wide of the same weight.
Justin, nice shooting. Have you ever tried to shoot through a chronograph at the longer distances? That would be some results I'd like to see. I don't have the balls...lol.
I’m not much of a distance shooter. Seems like no matter how much I tune my slick tricks they tend to fly slightly high & right of my field points. For me that’s OK as long as it’s consistent. When hunting season comes around I make a slight sight adjustment & practice only with broadheads. I shot Sonoran mechanicals for years before they became Schwackers. I think they shot better at distances out to 75 yards better than any other mech or fixed I ever tried. Swear I could shoot tighter groups with them than my field points.
Went out today. Hot and windy out. Shot a rage trypan and a rocket steelhead (pink arrows) (Blue are field points) Shot at 30 and then stepped back and shot them again at 94 yards
Good shooting, Ermine. But I’m curious why your arrows enter the target at such different angles? When my bows are tuned, conditions are good, and I’m shooting well, my arrows impact at nearly identical angles, especially at longer distances.
Matt
Matt- only thing I can think is the target material. Its blown out pretty bad on the other side. So maybe the target material is affecting the arrows path. I’m not sure
Perhaps, but I’ve never seen it. Even at 100, your arrows should have enough energy to not be affected by the target material.
When I see my arrows impacting at different angles, it’s always been a minor tuning issue, and it’s time to pull the bare shaft out. That said, your groups speak for themselves, so….
Matt
Yea I’m not sure. My bareshafts are flying strait
A side and top view photo might show the arrows are a lot straighter into the target than a picture from the nock end does. I'm always disappointed in my arrow group photos off the iPhone....the rear perspective photo isn't always reality.
Very informative Justin, thank you. What is your arrow weight and speed if you don’t mind my asking?
Also, what’s with the Trypan and the elastic? Are you on to something I’m not aware of? I hate those plastic collars
Matt- I don’t know my arrow speed. Don’t own a chrono. T It’s 440 grain arrow. 26 inch long. I have 27 inch draw shooting 76 lbs.
As far as the rubber band thing. I don’t know if I’m on to anything. I just put a rubber band on it that I had in my stuff to shoot it. I’m a fixed blade Ironwill guy. But have a few different broadheads I’ve gotten over the years to mess with
Well dang Justin your untuned bow and crooked arrows only helped you to be the youngest guy to get the big 9 I wonder what you could of done with more help from the bowsite experts??
I’ve never noticed a difference at any distance. I always shoot to 70, sometimes 80 and beyond but I don’t have pins for out there. I’ve shot many foxes and mech heads over the years and never noticed one start to separate.
My personal opinion is that claiming you’re shooting low because of head drag is similar to saying that you’re not seeing anything due to the moon phase while ignoring many larger variables such as human pressure, weather, etc. You’re wasting useless energy majoring in the minors.
