Sitka Gear
Sometimes ya gotta…….
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Bou'bound 10-Sep-22
Shuteye 10-Sep-22
Grey Ghost 10-Sep-22
Murph 10-Sep-22
HUNT MAN 10-Sep-22
Murph 10-Sep-22
Grey Ghost 10-Sep-22
HDE 10-Sep-22
Murph 10-Sep-22
N8tureBoy 10-Sep-22
Thornton 10-Sep-22
Grey Ghost 10-Sep-22
PECO2 10-Sep-22
[email protected] 10-Sep-22
Murph 10-Sep-22
DanaC 11-Sep-22
Pops 11-Sep-22
Bou'bound 11-Sep-22
Rocky D 11-Sep-22
PECO2 11-Sep-22
LINK 11-Sep-22
JL 11-Sep-22
Bou'bound 11-Sep-22
Bou'bound 11-Sep-22
APauls 12-Sep-22
fuzzy 12-Sep-22
deerhunter72 12-Sep-22
EmbryOklahoma 12-Sep-22
fuzzy 12-Sep-22
deerhunter72 12-Sep-22
drycreek 12-Sep-22
Corax_latrans 13-Sep-22
APauls 13-Sep-22
fuzzy 13-Sep-22
South Farm 13-Sep-22
scentman 13-Sep-22
Rocky D 13-Sep-22
fuzzy 14-Sep-22
No Mercy 14-Sep-22
Murph 14-Sep-22
EmbryOklahoma 15-Sep-22
Rocky D 15-Sep-22
Bowfreak 15-Sep-22
No Mercy 15-Sep-22
Will 15-Sep-22
Bowfreak 15-Sep-22
Rocky D 15-Sep-22
scentman 15-Sep-22
APauls 16-Sep-22
Rut Nut 16-Sep-22
[email protected] 16-Sep-22
fdp 18-Sep-22
From: Bou'bound
10-Sep-22
Overheard some guy at Cabela’s today telling the guy in the archery department he took 100 yard shot at a big buck last year.

Said it was a good shot he was just barely under it and the guy behind the counter said that’s a long shot

The customer just said “sometimes you don’t have a choice you just gotta reach out there for the big ones you know what I mean?”

Pathetic

So after just walking by here’s what I learned about that customer. when he hunts he take someone with him apparently who puts a gun to his head and forces him to take shots

Additionally he defines a good shot as one that missed the target which is a unique criteria

If he really knew what he was doing he wouldn’t have needed the guy at Cabela’s to show him how to tie a D Loop on a bowstring

Funny what you learn just walking by people

From: Shuteye
10-Sep-22
I have shot deer at 50 yards with good success. Now a am an old timer I wait until they are 20 yards or closer. I could easily kill a deer at 100 yards with by Ravin Cross bow but don't shoot until they are 20 yards or closer. Now I have plenty of time to wait for a great shot or I just don't shoot. I have five months to kill a deer for my freezer.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Sep-22
Sadly, there have always been the “poke and hope” type hunters, and probably always will be.

Today, that mentality is reinforced by a handful of guys who can actually make that shot, and they publicize doing so on TV and social media. Levi Morgan comes to mind. Consequently, there’s a whole generation of bow hunters who think 100 yard shots are perfectly acceptable.

Matt

From: Murph
10-Sep-22
For the record I’m not advocating for poke and hope type shooting and I have seen this as well but to stereotype someone at cabelas in the archery dept to Levi Morgan the GOAT is an insult to archers of his caliber he can make that shot and has on many occasion without accident maybe he shouldn’t be as open as he is about it cuz he has a huge following that think they can mimick him but their are guys of that skill set that should by all means utilize their talent especially on open country goats or mtn sheep where the terrain can only dictate such an opportunity and chances of that 20yd shot are possible but not probable

From: HUNT MAN
10-Sep-22
This Murph guys gets it:) Hunt

From: Murph
10-Sep-22
Hey hunt how you doing buddy you headed to help Will

From: Grey Ghost
10-Sep-22
Murph, I think you misinterpreted my point. There's no denying Levi is a rare archery talent. and a great hunter. He also seems like a honest family loving Christian man.

I just think he's done a disservice to young impressionable bowhunters who watch him make those shots and think they can do the same. Most have no clue about the amount of practice and God given skill it takes to shoot like Levi, especially under the pressure of a hunting situation.

I remember when anything over 50 yards was considered an unethical shot due to unforeseeable circumstances that can happen while the arrow is in the air. Yeah, I know technology has increased the effective range of modern bow equipment, but you still cant predict what the animal will do during that time between release and impact.

Just a few days ago I met a pair of first time archery elk hunters. One of them was giddy over "sticking" a bull on a 50 yard shot that missed its mark and hit the bull in the shoulder late one night. They said they searched for blood for a measly 3 hours the next morning without finding a drop, so they concluded the bull was fine, and would live to fight again. He admitted that his adrenaline was "thru the roof" and his pin was "flying around" when he took the shot, yet he showed absolutely no remorse for taking the shot. I wished them a good day, and walked away shaking my head.

Matt

From: HDE
10-Sep-22
Mr. Morgan shouldn't be making those shots even though he can. He cannot control every aspect of the flight of the arrow. One day a crazy and unpredictable gust of wind will float that arrow into an animal's hind quarter.

People shouldn't live in houses they didn't build either because they didn't know what they were doing...

From: Murph
10-Sep-22
Grey Ghost I hear you loud and clear and have empathy 100% for the situations you have encountered not aiming at you specifically, as for what is ethical or reasonable is so subjective, cuz if a bowhunter gut shoots a deer at 25 yds regardless of circumstance he’s justified and so many are incompetent even at that range but the next guy does it at 80+ he’s a slob and unethical it’s a slippery slope we can debate all night everything about archery is unpredictable all you can ask for is that hunters are honest with themselves about good choices and abilities and are constantly evolving

From: N8tureBoy
10-Sep-22
A non-hunter overheard that I bow hunt. He seemed genuinely intrigued. Trying to make conversation, he asked me what the furthest shot I ever made on a deer was. I told him that's not the point. I take pride in seeing how close I can get to make a clean shot.

From: Thornton
10-Sep-22
Shuteye- your Ravin crossbow is a joke at 100 yards. I've shot one extensively and concluded nobody has any business shooting one past 50 yards. Any slight breeze affects that arrow dramatically past 60 yards. No wonder our Kansas deer recovery site is saturated with crossbow cripples every season begging for a tracking dog in their area.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Sep-22
Thanks Murph. I think we agree, effective archery range is shooter specific and dependent on hunting circumstances.

Matt

From: PECO2
10-Sep-22
Here we go again. I don't care if Levi shoots dime size dots on stationary targets at 100 yards all day every day. Great for him, the stationary targets won't move. Levi can't control the wind, or the live animals, or all the other variables involved in a 100 yard shot. Why stop at 100 yards? I'm sure he can hit paper plates at 150. Has Levi never had one of those 100 yard shots go bad? Please.

10-Sep-22
No one should shoot a bow at 100 yards and I call BS on being able to kill one at 100 yards with a Ravin crossbow.50/50 at best

From: Murph
10-Sep-22
All I’m saying is archers hunters make bad shots on game daily at all ranges many of good archers have missed their mark at sub 40yds myself included even though it’s a chip, so why bark at Levi what’s your ceiling does everyone fall under it what’s ethical and not what’s effective range no one size fits all don’t judge everyone else just hold yourself accountable that’s all any of us can do

From: DanaC
11-Sep-22
I know a few good shooters who regularly practice out to 100 yards BUT none of them would take that shot on a standing animal.

I know a *very* few people who have taken deer at 60+ yards. One was a follow-up shot on a deer his buddy had wounded. It bedded down in sight and his friend texted him to put a finisher in it if possible. (This guy is a top shooter in 3D in this area.)

Just curious, is bowhunter education mandatory where the OP is located?

From: Pops
11-Sep-22
You miss every shot you don’t take.

From: Bou'bound
11-Sep-22
Bowhunter Education is not mandatory in Massachusetts and completion of just a bowhunter education course does not qualify a first-time hunter for a Massachusetts hunting license.

From: Rocky D
11-Sep-22
I have a special kind of disdain for those guys who say they stuck one in manner that it’s the best thing to killing one.

Murph shoot them wherever you that you are comfortable.

I saw a huge disparity in what is ethical when talk to whitetail guy versus western game.

From: PECO2
11-Sep-22
"archers hunters make bad shots on game daily at all ranges" This is true, however, the variables involved have more of an effect on the shot going bad increase, possibly exponentially, every 10 yards as you move out past 20 yards. The archer can only control his shot, not the animal or the other variables involed.

From: LINK
11-Sep-22
I’ve had a buck turn inside out at the shot, spin 180 and catch the arrow in the flank at 30 yards. If an animals ability to move dictates our shot range, then we need to shoot no further than 15 yards. How many of you guys bit<#ing about Levi shoot further than 15 at critters? When a animal moves at 60+ yards they’re no longer there when the arrow gets there at 20-30 you hit them poorly if they move. Justify what you want.

From: JL
11-Sep-22
We all know there is no such thing as a guaranteed shot. If you have bowhunted long enough, you will muff a shot with a miss or a wounding. I've done it and it sucks big time, especially a wounding. Whether a gun or bow, IMO it's a serious thing to release or pull a trigger on something.

If I had to qualify it, does the bowhunter have the same confidence level in making that long shot as they do in making that short shot? If I had to quantify it....is my confidence level of executing a good kill shot in a 100 yard scenario the same as it is at the 15 yard scenario? You shouldn't have to think about that one if you're being honest about your skills. I do believe there are many folks who do have those skills.

My honesty yardage is about 35yds and below in good light. Beyond that...I don't have that necessary 100% confidence in my skill set to pull it off. I'd never do anything past 40yds nor in very low light....I'm not good enough to do it.

From: Bou'bound
11-Sep-22
No mandatory bow education in Massachusetts.

From: Bou'bound
11-Sep-22
Overheard some guy at Cabela’s today telling the guy in the archery department he took 100 yard shot at a big buck last year.

Said it was a good shot he was just barely under it and the guy behind the counter said that’s a long shot

The customer just said “sometimes you don’t have a choice you just gotta reach out there for the big ones you know what I mean?”

Pathetic

From: APauls
12-Sep-22
I am very impressed at the judgements you can make just walking past people. I have never tied a D loop. One day I'll learn a thing or two though.

From: fuzzy
12-Sep-22
Wow. I consider 30 to be long

From: deerhunter72
12-Sep-22
Each hunter sets his own limits. I know mine and I've never killed a deer with a bow over 30 yards. Even when I've hunted with a crossbow. Maybe that makes me a poor hunter. I personally think that taking a shot at a WT at 100 yards is extremely unwise, even if you have the talent to make target shots at that distance. Too many variables involved. It does make me chuckle to think that a lot of people said that crossbows would be the end of bowhunting because you can shoot deer out to 100 yards, and now we have acceptance(by some) of people doing it with compounds. Probably been some people trying those shots all along.

12-Sep-22
“I am very impressed at the judgements you can make just walking past people. I have never tied a D loop. One day I'll learn a thing or two though.“

Me too, Adam. I feel very unaccomplished knowing I’ve never tied a d-loop.

From: fuzzy
12-Sep-22
Don't feel bad guys I don't know what a "D loop " is.

From: deerhunter72
12-Sep-22
I know what a D loop is but I’ve never tied one myself.

From: drycreek
12-Sep-22
Hell, I ran out of breath trying to read Murph’s posts…….

13-Sep-22
“You miss every shot you don’t take.”

Hall of Fame Dumbass remark.

Gretzky said “100% of the shots you don’t take don’t go in.“ It’s a not very subtle distinction. Especially since the best pass in hockey is off the goalie’s pads, eh?

Since the dawn of archery, 100% of Shots Passed Up have an exactly 0% wounding rate. No matter how careful you are, no matter how close you get….. If you’re going to shoot, you can reduce the probability of screwing it up, but you can’t eliminate it.

We all know this, right?

And we all know that risk increases with distance and that the increase is non-linear. Windage is exponential. I actually had to explain that to a retired policeman one time. Blew my mind.

“When a animal moves at 60+ yards they’re no longer there when the arrow gets there at 20-30 you hit them poorly if they move. Justify what you want.”

I suppose that depends why he is moving. An animal that blows up trying to get out of the way of your arrow… Yes, probably will be entirely in the clear. On the other hand, if it takes a half a step to munch on that next tuft of grass…. or just casually shifts it weight a bit…. That’ll take you out of the 10-ring and into the…. digestive tract content.

Though there that was that video here a few years back where a guy took a 75 yard shot on a bull Elk which wheeled hard and caught an arrow right behind the ear. If that bull hadn’t flinched, he would’ve gotten away clean. Loud bow.

Somehow I think I’d have a little trouble feeling proud of that shot.

From: APauls
13-Sep-22
There's a lot of dumb stuff people do. But man, have I ever done a crap load of dumb stuff learning to bowhunt!!!!

When I was learning I shot at deer just hoping to connect. I had pins to 50 and was winging arrows at running deer 70-80 yards away as they were running through timber! I was pretty excited when my arrows landed "so close." I remember shooting at a buck that had me pegged at 40 yards standing full frontal looking at me. You name the dumb thing I did it. When was the most fun times I ever had in my bowhunting life? Probably the same times lol. Everything was exciting.

Now, do I condone those shots to others? No. I had to learn. I don't think bowsite was around then, and not every learning hunter is on bowsite or even knows of it's existence and the things you can learn online. There's a lot of stupidity out there, but everyone deserves their own chance to learn and I won't begrudge them one bit. My dad taught me how to rifle hunt, so I just basically rifle hunted with a bow. I learned the rest myself. Happy to have learned about hunting already. I can't imagine starting from scratch completely. Add to that equation the mass amounts of terrible information out there. Heck we've got our own resident keyboard experts on this site looking for validation. An untrained ear can easily believe the wrong thing.

All to say, we mustn't be so quick to judge without knowing all 3 sides to every story.

From: fuzzy
13-Sep-22
Corax-latrans in the same vein though off topic, many years ago I was on a large acreage building parcel with the owner doing a Septic System Design. He was at that time a small town police officer. There was a groundhog visible at the right rear property corner. We were at the road about center of the property. Knowing the property dimensions, that put the animal at just under 400 yards away. The owner said that if only he had his service revolver on him he'd kill that groundhog. I laughed thinking he was cracking a joke. He was very offended and insisted that it would be a chip shot for the .38 S&W service revolver he carried on the job. He may very well have been the finest handgun shot in the USA at the time for all I know, but I think it's more likely he was just an idiot.

From: South Farm
13-Sep-22
Imagine how deadly he'd be with a crossbow! Heck, 100 yards would be a chip shot..

My ears have evolved to self-close just like the batcave door the second they begin to hear bullshit, and it's really done wonders for my faith in my fellow man. You should try it sometime:)

From: scentman
13-Sep-22
Cavemen took long shots... just look at their cave drawings, the arch on that trajectory was much like a line graph comparing Trumps economy to Bidens debacle.

From: Rocky D
13-Sep-22
I watch a lot of YouTube videos and I have come to the conclusion that most animals are wounded and lost because of hunters not understanding anatomy first and angles second.

I see it all the time a guy makes the perfect in the crease behind the leg but trouble is the animal is at a 45° angle instead of broadside and you end up with one lung at best, a tough track job, or a lost animal.

From: fuzzy
14-Sep-22
South Farm I've developed some of the same hearing skills. 30 years ago I hadn't yet. :)

From: No Mercy
14-Sep-22
I honestly don't care about Levi Morgan and his buddy, the poacher, Josh Bowmar, "making" these shots. What these "celebrities" are doing to archery is pathetic. I thought the object of our passion was to get as close to the prey as possible? These assholes are teaching an entire new generation that a bow is a weapon that can be used for longer ranges, despite the outcomes that are never shown. It's ridiculous! When game and fish departments start analyzing data, will they see archery as a longer distance game? Will they lump the seasons together with other long range weapons? I don't know, but the entire 100 yard shot bragging game has me feeling nauseous.

From: Murph
14-Sep-22
My last thought: to all who have a strong opinion about long range archery, I’m with you I love archery for what it is and how you connect with Mother Nature, it’s an experience that only a bow hunter can speak of getting close to game , as for I believe every archer in the universe yearns for that perfect 20yd broadside shot, we’ll guess what now there’s reality when I initially commented on this I interjected with a fairly strong opinion and it was in regards to a deer hunter by the region likely a whitetail guy, I was prob wrong for how I started the debate because I truly believe whitetail deer are a close quarters animal, 50yds would be a poke unless it was a desperate follow up or something, but until you’ve all experienced western bow hunting be careful throwing stones in a glass house, and I know this is gonna create a shit storm but I’ve killed antelope in the wide open prairie at 80+ and the animal never reacted until the arrow hit them, that puts all the emphasis on my due diligence to make sure that arrow finds its mark, I dot my I’s and cross my T’s when it comes to my stuff I’m ocd meticulous and good at what I do, if I couldn’t make that shot or felt doubt I simply wouldn’t take it when you spot and stalk open terrain animals in my neck of the woods you better get good at shooting cuz opportunities are not easy, and I’ve snuck up on coyotes for Christ sake so don’t say I’m not good enough to stalk the terrain just dictates it you can’t hide behind buffalo grass.. their is a time and a place for this but ethics has always got to be your foundation I don’t think it’s unethical to push the limits beyond 60 yds if you truly have the confidence to make the shot, everyone believes they can make that 20 yd shot, and many of animal have been missed, or hobbled off at that range just my 2cents…

15-Sep-22
Geeezusss Christ that’s the longest sentence I’ve ever read.

From: Rocky D
15-Sep-22
“ I honestly don't care about Levi Morgan and his buddy, the poacher, Josh Bowmar, "making" these shots. What these "celebrities" are doing to archery is pathetic.”

Everyone curses these guys but what are you doing to advance bow hunting?

From: Bowfreak
15-Sep-22
No matter what you all do with your fictitious shot distance limitations it all comes down to personal responsibility. Some people can shoot 100 yards and make deadly accurate shots on game and some can’t shoot past 20. It is up to the individual to decide.

From: No Mercy
15-Sep-22
@Rocky D- I teach Hunters Ed in my home state. I am active in local archery clubs and support all youth events. I score for Pope and Young and teach ethics and fair chase. I am completely active in my sport, for the future of our sport, NOT for the love of attention on social media and money like the aforementioned "hunters" are.

From: Will
15-Sep-22
Bou - it's frigging annoying as heck. Ugh.

From: Bowfreak
15-Sep-22

From: Rocky D
15-Sep-22

Rocky D's embedded Photo
Rocky D's embedded Photo
“ @Rocky D- I teach Hunters Ed in my home state. I am active in local archery clubs and support all youth events. I score for Pope and Young and teach ethics and fair chase”

No Mercy, I have done all those things and it’s not Adding a significant enough amount of hunters or bow hunters because our numbers are dwindling!

From: scentman
15-Sep-22
Stand in line at Walmart while waiting to get your license... I think some guys just like to hear themselves talk, not knowing other people are actually listening... I do it all the time ;0]

From: APauls
16-Sep-22
"Administered in the state of Alasica" ;)

From: Rut Nut
16-Sep-22
It's amazing what you hear standing in line at Walmart or the local bow shop. My buddy said one day he overheard a guy saying he had shot 6 bucks so far that season(PA is limited to 1 buck) and had not recovered any of them. I had to ask him If I heard correctly because I couldn't imagine anyone shooting 6 DEER, let alone 6 bucks and not recovering a one! He said that's right- 6 Bucks! I then asked him what he said to the guy? he said "nothing............................I didn't want to get into it!"

I was a little disappointed that he did not take the opportunity to educate this individual and maybe even offer to help him figure out what he was doing wrong..............................

I was shocked that someone would actually admit to shooting that many deer without a recovery! I almost gave up bowhunting my first year after shooting 2 doe and not recovering either of them. Fortunately I was helped by a good professional at our local Pro Shop that figured out why I was not getting good penetration and after changing my set up almost all my shots on deer resulted in pass thrus after that. But I was determined I was not going to shoot another deer until I figured out what the problem was!

16-Sep-22
That's a "K"

From: fdp
18-Sep-22

  • Sitka Gear