Guided Hunt costs are getting ridiculous
General Topic
Will the costs ever stabilize?
Will the costs ever stabilize?
Pat Lefemine's Link
We felt it was time to revisit this important topic.
Everything is going up, but even after adjusting for inflation, many guided hunts are up 2-3-4-500% in just a few short years. Where does it end? What does that mean for future generations of hunters? Are we killing the dream or just resetting expectations?
It's been predicted for years, that hunting will eventually only be available for the wealthy. It isn't just guide fees. Look at equipment costs, that includes all gear which is taxed higher than most any luxury items. Available public hunting land is either inundated by too many hunters, or is so piss-pounded it is almost not worth the hassle. Urban sprawl, population increases, privatization, etc., has only hurt things even more. In two or three generations, hunting will be unlike anything any of us could ever imagine.
Right or wrong, it’s the market. People are willing to pay $25 grand plus for a moose hunt, or $40-60 grand or more for a sheep hunt. The price escalation will stop, when people stop buying. By the way, I’m not paying those prices.
Ive dreamed of a sheep hunt since i was a kid. Ive come to accept it is never going to happen.
I wish it was different. Just the way it is now. In 10 years i will be lucky if i can still deer hunt. Whitetails in the midwest. People of average means are going to be out. In my opinion. Enjoy what you can while you can.
IMO most outfitters are not making oodles of dough. That being said, the leases, the insurance etc has forced a lot of this. Greed, supply and demand and those of us in or 50s and 60s trying to beat the clock have something to do with it as well. In 5 to 10 years this will most likely blow apart as all markets do.
Great article. I'm 38 years old. Between 2012 and 2014 I went on 2 Mule Deer hunts, 2 antelope hunts, 1 mountain lion hunt, 1 lynx hunt, 1 bobcat hunt, and 2 Canadian wolf hunts. But man prices have changed. My lion hunt was $3K, and now it's $9,500. I'm sitting 7-8 points for Elk in Wyoming and starting to wonder if I will ever even go. I don't have anyone to hunt with for a DIY (my Dad is near 70 with a bad knee). Can I afford $8K for an elk hunt? Yes. But can I justify it? No. $8K for 6-7 days of no frills lodging and food to hopefully draw back on a decent elk seems crazy to me. I missed the boat on sheep and brown/grizzly bears too. Who knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years, but it sure will be interesting to see in this industry.
I have one potential solution, but I dont really like it.
Limit how many times you are allowed to hunt a particular species successfully.
I have been fortunate to have hunted BC and the Yukon for sheep and attend the sheep show in Reno every year. It is a game run by the extremely wealthy. There are many individuals that have killed dozens of sheep and don't blink an eye at buying multiple tags a year covering hundreds of thousands of dollars. I love capitalism and don't begrudge their wealth, as others probably look at me with the same eyes. I do however struggle knowing that they single handedly can drive up the prices as Pat noted in his article. I hate to call them selfish, but in a sense it is.
I don't believe they are not making lots of cash. Even my old outfitter who had marginal success on his few leases and national forest and charged less than everyone else was buying new trucks every year. I stopped buying guided hunts as prices increased and it was the best decision I made. I have much more fun now and nobody is telling me what I can and cannot shoot,and more of a sense of accomplishment when I do get something.
I agree with Gary. When the boomers are gone. There are a few generations coming that will not support that market. They demand will shrink and it will adjust. Or there will be fewer options and those will stay high. But I don’t think it will ever go back to the prices we used to see.
I often wonder if it will hit a tipping point if the statistics about the average age of hunters increasing rapidly holds true. There will always be demand but will it subside substantially in 20-30 years (assuming our conservation model continues and populations for these hunts remains stable).
I’ve accepted I won’t be hunting all the species for this reason. I also think adventure hunts are easily had even by poor people (I should know, I hunted something like 8-10 species before even graduating college on a ramen noodle budget). I wasn’t super successful on all of them but I was still out exploring, hunting, and learning the ropes.
Are we killing the dream or just resetting expectations?
I've been preaching the former for years. And every single one of us who contributed to it are to blame.
Matt
I remember looking at a great elk hunt for 3,500 and passing on it. At the time we were raising kids and money was tight.
I’ve been fortunate to have gone on some great adventures since but I agree that it’s out of control now. That same elk hunt is 11K today.
Glad I went on some that required a guide before prices got silly. Hard to justify now with kids and other responsibilities.
Haven't moose hunted yet. Thought I would get to go here in CO. on my own but after a couple decades of trying for a tag, the CPW torpedoed the odds of drawing a tag with a process change.
I outfitted in the 90s. Good outfits earn every penny.
If I want to go out of state I would do a DIY hunt and save money. Plus I like to hunt for the challenge of it and would rather not have a guide tell me where to sit or take me to.
As another hunter posted, I also can "afford" an elk hunt out west, and I have gone twice in past at a cost of $10k all in, but today I can't rationalize the cost when I weigh it against spending my money on another vacation, down payment on car, home repairs, etc.
I think the demand has increased due to the trophy hunting shows and youtube videos leading hunters to believe the only good hunt is a trophy hunt. The outfitters are fighting for the same piece of ground so I can't blame them. I'd rather spend a day in the CT woods relaxing vs spending thousands to spend a week and lots of money out west, even though to cost of gas may impact how many trips I make to the woods here in Connecticut.
It’s all about expectations and appreciation for what we DO have. I’ve been on a few great adventure hunts and appreciate those opportunities.
However, Monday was opening day of archery season in Massachusetts. A friend who lives 1.5 miles away, owns 18 acres and lets me archery hunt for deer and Turkey. 45 minutes into opening day I shot a horse head doe. I was excited and fired up. Made a great shot with easy recovery. What a fun hunt doing everything myself. Cut the deer up yesterday and shared half with my land owner friend. Next I hope to get a gobbler. Paid $10.20 for that Antlerless tag. To me archery hunting is archery hunting where ever I’m at. You can “get er done” locally too at minimal cost.
It's not just hunting it's fishing.I don't see an end in sight.The guides stay booked don't they.I stay booked and the phone doesn't stop ringing. As for fishing I see more boats on the water than ever before.You'd think that gas was $2 per gallon.And the boats are not cheap these days.There are waiting list on every boat manufacturer and have been.The amount of money on the water these days is staggering.Just look at the pictures of SW Florida and see all the boats.That is just the tip of the iceburg. Leases are highly sought after and rarely vacant.
I saw the prices rising years ago and elected to hunt Africa instead of NA. I felt and still feel Africa is the best value for the dollar. Also, outfitters are willing to make deals with clients.
I have watched the prices of exotics and pigs skyrocket to ridiculous costs in Texas and Oklahoma and they are covered up with pigs. The freeze in Texas a year or so ago is what drove up axis hunts and the weather destroyed the herds. Fuel and feed also have increased and these items are passed on to the customer.
When people are no longer willing to pay, the prices will decrease, but where is the tipping point ?
There will not be a tipping point, price escalation will continue. Mostly one can thank horn porn and slam type of hunting. I do not see that ending.
i regret not going on a caribou hunt 20-30 years ago. i waited and herds declined, opportunities became harder to come by, and the cost is way more than I am willing to pay.
i have a few PP's for out of state hunts planned in the next 1-5 years but they'll probably be DIY. if i didn't have the PP's i wouldn't bother.
i noticed most outfitted antelope hunts are 3 days now. 5 used to be the norm. i suppose most guys kill'em within the first 3 days and the outfitter sends you on your way. it's less cost to them, i get it.
local opportunities for big game for me mostly suck.
i do a fair share of upland bird hunting with my dogs, that's about as DIY and inexpensive as I can make it and opportunities are still decent.
like others mentioned, i am glad i had the opportunities when i was younger. sure wish i would've hunted and went on more adventures.
the young ones are going to have to be wealthy, even to afford the clothes. :)
As long as there are people willing to pay then they will charge. Id like to eliminate some of the outfitter bottlenecks (welfare) and remove barriers to entry for guides(these are not heart surgeons). That will drive the price down.
Once the boomer population ages out we might see some price stabilization. I don't really care either way, I'll never use a guide.
It’s everything guys trophy mule deer are as much as $15,000 now it’s a rich man’s game still some diy opportunity but quality is dwindling as well if you don’t own it plan on paying for it..
A Guided hunt has always been a premium hunt. Most hunters don't use guides, they just go hunting. So even though the "premium" for a guided hunt has gone up, it really has no affect on hunting or future generations of hunters. Those that use guides won't understand this I suppose because they don't realize that they aren't the norm.
It depends on the hunt what is the norm. Many species in Alaska require a guide or a resident, same in Africa.
Great article. Other things to consider: With aging, I am willing to spend more money on hunts now that I have accumulated enough assets to retire. When hunts were cheaper I was raising children and saving money to accumulate assets.
Another contributing factor is the NA 29 and other list hunts. This has increased the demand and price for many hunts and especially some of the more obscure hunts.
While the demand may be slowing down as the younger generation is less interested in hunting as a percentage of the population, the growing population will somewhat offset the reduced demand.
Excellent article. This has hit home. I missed out on Quebec caribou for $1,800. Have done 3 Canada whitetail hunts over the past 21 years. That hasn't gone up too awful much. However, I did a NF moose hunt last year for $4,500. This year the price was $6,900. I suppose that I'm done with moose. 2 years ago, elk hunt was $3500, same hunt is now $5000, (without $1000 tags). Best memories are from DIY hunt trips. Many here know that. Don't begrudge outfitters, but the truth is most of us are the "common working man." Many have the money to do whatever trips we want, but as pointed out, there is an inability to justify spending the hard-earned dollars.
Never waited longer to get dates than I am now. Demand is up.
Hunters are getting older and recruitment is down. Just think about the age of the guys in the last 10 camps you have been in. 50-60++ year old white guys. Homogeneous.
That group can afford it and have the time and money and are spent g it while they can.
When the guys Ruth the money die off demand will go down as there are fewer hunters to take their place
Bou is spot on. Im 37 and most guys in camps that I hunt are 55-65. When boomers age out I bet their will be a cost correction.
I am glad I did a few hunts I did. NZ, Africa, Mt Lion (2,500) in 2007.
I used to think Africa was a great deal. Still is problem now I am hearing is cost to get trophies home is almost more then the hunt.
Hell hogs in Texas are even a fortune. Heck look, if you can find one even management hunts for Mule Deer, Elk or other species aren't cheap.
I can't for most part do DIY so my desire for hunting is pretty dwindling. I am still trying for tags for elk and MD and hoping when I draw I can afford a guide.
I would rather spend my money now paying off my house and maybe even hunting some exotics, that sometimes you can find broken horn etc for reasonable.
I unfortunately don't see the future of hunting being very good. My cousin is young makes very good money and even has to question some hunts he dreams about.
The money that is hunting them now will flow to others who will hunt.
How many sheep are killed in North America in a calendar year? Then there are guys killing multiple per year. 0.00001% of hunters. They’ve got the means. Is what it is. The quicker a guy looks at what he can do, accept it and enjoy it as opposed to looking over the fence the happier you are IMO. Would I love to hunt goats and sheep? Absolutely? Will I ever? 99.5% not
I love capitalism as much as the next guy but we know where this leads. As large corporations grow so large they swallow up every fast rising company. Profits get funnelled into a smaller and smaller number of pockets. The corporations become so wealthy their main growth source is acquisition. Look at the hunting industry. Almost all owned by two conglomerates. Food - nearly all packaged food is produced by a few conglomerates. We know where this is headed
Did a little time in Alaska for an outfitter in 1980, grizzly $3000, Dull sheep $1500, caribou $800, moose $1200, Elk (Frognak Island) $1200, mt. goat $1500. Overhead expense for plane, horses, boat and accommodation plus guide greatly add to the cost and this was during Jimmy Carter's inflation era. Now with a lot of personal wealth the separation will be a greater divide of who can and who can't, it is becoming an European sport with NR DYI getting limited also.
Have to be asleep to dream and thats turned in to a nightmare,no point in being involved or supporting so called conservation/hunting org's etc. Only the elites will be able to"have at it". ALL generations will feel the impact of the royalty type hunting coming on us. Do your thing as long as you can afford it. The sun is setting upon the American way of hunting.
It’s purely a Supply and Demand issue, that’s it.
I’m not sure I understand the part about public land being overcrowded with hunters so now there’s nowhere to hunt? Who’s doing the hunting on the public land? And how is this making hunting disappear? Too many hunters is reducing the number of hunters? Huh?
"My kids are now out of college, with good jobs, and adequate disposable income. Still, a $10k elk hunt is out of the question for my boys - and almost everyone else in their mid-twenties and early thirties. While this article focused on big game adventure hunts, deer hunting costs are increasing too, with leasing, non-resident tag fees, etc."
IMO......folks who never hunted before and look to do a hunt of a lifetime will get discouraged and/or give up after the reality check of costs come in. I think this and a few other things don't help in getting new hunters...or keeping old hunters in the game for that matter.
WRT to license costs.....I've been a long time believer NR's are getting taken to the cleaners by the states. IMO...I've said this before and I'll say it again....there are national organizations and fishing/hunting magazines out there who should be using their influence to advocate on behalf of their members and readers to reign in these runaway NR fees. I think that is a great place to start.
And Pat the part in your article the part about an outfitter dropping the number of hunters he takes and charging more for those hunters would only work if they are getting something more for their money, better trophy quality, better guides, better food, accommodations etc. Maybe if it’s an exclusive territory or he has one thing no one else has that might work but to just reduce the number of hunters an outfitters take to drive up price doesn’t really work. I mean I take 30 bear hunters a year for $5000 each. If I only took 20 hunters I couldn’t just jack my price way up. My hunters would just go to someone cheaper, it’s not that hard to find a good Canadian bear hunt.
One other thing i forgot to mention...i hunt a good friends farm here locally. He hunts himself occasionally. Once or twice a year. A very wealthy man bought farms adjoining his on two sides. He offered my buddy 10k if he would stop letting me hunt. 10k. Not to hunt it himself. Just doesnt want anybody else in there who might shoot one of "his" deer that wanders on to the neighbors place.
My friend told him no. But 10k is a lot of cheese for nothing. If he wanted to take it i wouldnt blame him, and i sure as hell couldnt match it.
Thats where we are at.
Tackling the supply side of hunting is the best solution. Big game management across most of North America is terrible. Mule deer hunting is a prime example, it’s lousy compared to what it used to be. Increase the supply of good hunting and the price will come down. Bear hunting is cheap because there are lots of bears.
I love capitalism as much as the next guy but we know where this leads. As large corporations grow so large they swallow up every fast rising company. Profits get funnelled into a smaller and smaller number of pockets. The corporations become so wealthy their main growth source is acquisition. Look at the hunting industry. Almost all owned by two conglomerates. Food - nearly all packaged food is produced by a few conglomerates. We know where this is headed
Excellent article and a great read.
I'm 50, bust my ass at work every day. Take care of my family and hunt whitetails here in my home state of PA.
I'll never go on a guided hunt unless I win the lottery.
I really enjoy and appreciate everyone's great hunts, pics and recaps here. It's a close as I'll likely ever get.
Apauls, I’m not sure what you are talking about? Guided hunts are almost exclusively done by small business operator, owners. There isn’t a single large corporation in all of Canada that does guided big game hunts.
A lot of good points in this thread.. Ive been a hunter for 42 years and see the end coming... No way I would justify spending $10-40,000 to shoot any animal ... and Ive dreamt of them all. A regular, young person today trying to start their own life, buy a house, vehicle, etc., better have some major money coming in just for those things. Few will be able to afford any hunts, much less high end ones.. Thinking of my own boy, (19) who's been hunting with me for the last 12 years, I often think he should stop hunting. The time, effort and money involved just isn't worth it... as stated earlier by Pete-pec, "Available public hunting land is either inundated by too many hunters, or is so piss-pounded it is almost not worth the hassle. Urban sprawl, population increases, privatization, etc.," sums up my thoughts...
Here in IL, we have relatively little public land. Unpaid access to private land is becoming more difficult. Onerous property taxes are driving more and more land owners to pursue hunting leases to offset costs. I still have access to some ground owned by friends and would love to hunt with some of my wife’s family from WI, but NR license, tag and habitat fees for mom, dad and a few kids make it a pretty expensive trip. It makes hunting difficult to afford to do as a family.
Mike, his hunts were not for black bears. He did stones, grizzly, elk and moose. Decided to cater to high end clients only and provide them with a longer hunt with him personally guiding them rather than his assistant guides. So it was likely a better experience. His costs went way down and profit way up. Had no problem finding 3 clients paying 3x more. This was years ago. But always wondered if more outfitters would adopt that strategy.
I have seen whitetail and elk outfitters going this route, less hunters, better experience. No shortage of clients!
Absolutely Pat, that would work. They are getting more for their money on an fairly exclusive hunt.
I’m 55. Been saying it for years that opportunities are diminishing for out of state hunts guided and DIY. VHS, DVD’s then the internet, it became “cool” to be a hunter. I recall in suburban grade school talking about hunting, none of my classmates hunted, wearing camo in public was unheard of. It became commercialized and thats what drove the masses into hunting, providing the fuel to energize the industry.
Only been on two guided hunts, AK grizz for $4500 in 2009 and a last minute cancellation WY elk hunt into the wilderness for $3800 in 2005. Both were great hunts.
I loaded up both my boys with points and burned them all as fast as we could thru their high school days seeing how fast quality opportunities were dropping.
“Once in a lifetime” hunts will take on a new meaning, as in one out of state hunt in a lifetime as odds for tags become like lotto’s.
I just did a semi guided bear hunt in Virginia and that boy had me cutting and splitting wood every day it was awful his lady cooking probably put 10 pounds on my backside in 3 days.
When I started "guiding" bear hunters in the 80's, it was 250.00$. In the late 80s/early 90s, my Canadian guides charged me 600.00$ for spring bear. Lodging included. I quit going to Canada about year 2000 when my one guy went to 1000.00 no way would I do that. I pass up many 1000.00's every year from people wanting a bear hunt. But I do like to take a few women/kids each year 100% free of charge. (Well, maybe a case of beer)
I just wrote a check for my first lease to hunt whitetails. I hunted the same piece of property for 41 years and got booted back in June because it was leased. It seems like a lot of money to me, and it is, but not nearly what others are paying. Will my daughter and grandkids get to hunt someday when I am gone? I doubt it. I am hoping I will still be able to afford to hunt whitetails in 20 years. My dreams of another elk hunt are about over.
My wife and I just booked a 10 day cruise to Italy Croatia and Greece for under $5000 all inclusive. That equates to 1/2 of a mule deer ,1 WT deer hunt ,1/2 of an elk hunt, 1/10 of a sheep hunt ,one bear hunt . Kind of interesting comparison
Gary, my wife and daughter went to Italy in July. Moved all Over the country. Food and accommodations were cheap compared to a big game hunt. Excluding Africa of course. Also, the African PH could teach NA guides a lot about customer service and professionalism.
Spot on Jay. I get some important bank points by going on a trip and not hunting. Fills her soul. Best regards. G
It’s disheartening to say the least. I have a 16 month old son and if hunting ends up being his thing, I worry what opportunities exist for him out there. Even here at home, where I can look at a map and recognize the majority of landowners on OnX, you aren’t getting knock on the door permission anymore. I’ve been lucky enough to hunt our family farm my whole life, but even that too one day will sell or as the family continues to grow be overran with uncles and more cousins. Land prices have skyrocketed around here and guess what? They’re sold in no time, so someone is buying it up.
I’ve made at least 1 and sometimes 3 trips a year out west and to Alaska since 2015. All DIY, with the help of some great friends. I’ve had some success, I’ve had some flops, and I’ve had a whole lot of fun. But the opportunities to continue doing these hunts each year is getting tougher with point creep and whatnot. It’s the world we’ve created though. I’ve all but given up on the sheep and goat dreams I once had (aside from somehow drawing a tag). Regardless, I’ll keeping sending it each fall until I can’t get a tag anymore or until I croak.
For interest’s sake,
Average US household income 1990 - $30k/year
Average US household income 2021 - 70k/year
That was based off a quick search so not sure how accurate that is. If anything, 2021 sounds high. But that means, guys saying you could be “all in” on a sheep hunt for 2-3k in 1990, would be like 5-7k today.
Pat’s epic Alaskan moose hunt normalized today would be $4600 all in prior to taxidermy. I’d be doing a hunt like that every year!
Great article Pat. I just turned 36, spent the last 10 years dreaming of big hunts, starting over in a new career, and starting a family. Now I am at the point where I have flexibility if time and some resources. I’ll be damned if I ever pay for some of this stuff. The value of it isn’t there. 10 days 35k for a sheep sounds selfish to me, as I could put that towards my kids.
I have been focusing more on the adventure close to home like remote pond fishing, bow hunting deer, land management, etc. still hope to hunt out west and have points building, but it’s been crazy to watch point creep in the last few years.
Julius
There are still plenty of small game opportunities. Squirrel hunting in some areas is at it's best. Coons are thicker than I have ever seen them, lots of geese. It varies by area, but hunting sheep and brown bear is not the end all, and never was for every hunter.
Great article, Pat.
I've been fairly fortunate to do some good hunts. However, there are less and less of them that I want to do that I can afford and/or justify the expense. We have 2 daughters to finish raising. I just cannot justify the expense of some of these hunts with alot of "real life" left to go.
There are still plenty options that I can afford to do, will just have to stick to those and enjoy them.
He's what Ive found, if there is a hunt you want to go on book it now, because prices will never be cheaper. If anyone thinks hunter numbers are down just hit some public land in the west in september and let me know if you'd like to rethink.
Pat great article. There is no doubt that the prices are getting rising at an unbelievable rate. Capitalism at work. I don't think that there is anything that any of us can do about that other than cross our fingers and hope prices level out of hopefully come down at some point.
With that being said if it is a dream to go on one of these hunts, go chase that dream down. Sure the prices are a lot but I am certain that when your looking back on your life, you will cherish the memories that you made a whole lot more than the extra money in your bank account. You only live once and if you live it well, once is enough.
Lets look at it another way, if there is a will there is a way. It comes down to decisions, many buy a new truck every 3 years, some go out to eat every night. If you really want it, go get a second job. For example, If you were able to get $25 an hour and put in 1.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, at the end of the year you would have close to $10K to go experience a dream hunt. Yeah that may be hard work but lets be honest, many here spend more than that amount of that time each day on bowsite. Go out and live life to the fullest!
I have lots of history because I’m old, but I have lots of regrets too. I did take some guided hunts back when I made enough money to afford it and a couple of the most memorable were dry runs if you’re just looking to shed blood. My first archery antelope hunt in Montana comes to mind. It was a rut hunt using a decoy and IT WAS FUN ! My son and I hunted four days, walked ten thousand miles, (seemed like), and both had missed opportunities. The other was a rifle muley hunt in CO and the only thing I pulled a trigger on were two coyotes. I shot one of them on a dead run at about 75 yards, I can remember it like it was yesterday although I can hardly remember what I did last Tuesday. That’s what hunting is about to me, memories made !
I regret that I never went to Africa, it has long been a dream of mine, but I hate airplanes and the full day of flying is just something that intimidated the hell out of me. I should have taken Buffalo1’s advice years ago and just went. Now I’m retired and need to watch my pennies closer. My several trips to Wyoming on DYI private land pronghorn hunts were some of my best memories. I’m afraid that those kinds of hunts are getting out of reach for lots of people, both in price and the points required to draw.
As Charlie said, I can get amped up pretty good by hunting whitetails here at home, just walk out the back door a few hundred yards and I’m hunting. Hell, if it ever rains again I might even have a food plot !
Capitalism, your either for it or not. That's all it is. Good for the outfitters getting what they can get. I'm happy to afford a $5k hunt every other year or so but that's as good as it will ever get for me. There's still great bargains on amazing hunts out there. Pine Acres in Ontario for a bear hunt is a perfect example. Great value there, and there are others out there.
Makes being almost 76 doesn’t seem so bad glad I did what I did but we never used an outfitter those prices are insane thanks for sharing Pat Good luck Lewis
^ this. Not knocking the people (actually a little jealous). But with all of the inherented money around I don't see prices dropping at all.
Very interesting thread. I’ve never had any ambition to hunt anything other than WT deer in my home state of IL. I’ve never considered booking any kind of hunt anywhere, just doesn’t interest me. I guess I could spend some money to do it but it would seem a waste to me. If I’m going to travel, I’d rather do it with my wife and kids. I do love reading about other BS members adventures. Goat, ram, bear and moose hunts are my favorite.
For most of my life I was fortunate to have unlimited access to a few different pieces of private owned ground. This has changed and 5 years ago we lost access to a small woods that my dad had hunted since the 70’s. The owners grandson got into hunting and didn’t want any competition. We completely understood, but I still miss the woods. I still have access to a couple other places but the writing was on the wall, so 3 years ago I bought 50 acres a half mile from the little woods I grew up hunting. More than anything, I bought the ground just to ensure that me and my kids would always have a place to hunt if we want to. I’m also fortunate to have good friends who own a lot of ground and I enjoy a week of camping and hunting with them every November. I mention all of this to say, deer hunting is becoming a sport for people of means. I don’t personally know anyone who regularly takes guided hunts. Most of the hunters I know either couldn’t afford it, or would consider it a waste if they could.
There is always the option of working more and hunting less, then leaving money so the next generation can afford to hunt.
I was recently staying in Canmore, Alberta and checked out the outfitter for Bighorn sheep and what the cost was $43000. When driving through the a Provincial Park I got pictures of Bighorns along side of the road and one walking down the center of the road, talked to then Park Range and he said the Bighorn was one of the dumbest animals he has been around, funny but whatever trip your trigger go for it.
Nothing wrong with a dumb Bighorn, or any dumb game animal for that matter. I wish they were all dumber than me - unfortunately every season it seems the opposite is true.
One area that nobody has talked about, that I have read. That is the cost of licenses. I remember when Pa. had over 1.5 million hunters in the woods on opening day. Hunting camps where full. Roads lined with cars and trucks. Not anymore. If I'm correct Pa. is lucky to get 750k licenses sold every year. I have looked at the price of licenses through out the States. For out of State licenses WOW. The Game Departments have to keep raising license fees because of the lack of or loss of hunters buying licenses. Here in Pa. they made the move to have opening day of deer season start on the Saturday following Thanksgiving, NOT a smart move. IMO. It always started on the Monday after Thanksgiving.
There was a time I went on a big trip out of state every year and thought I always would. Now I have a huge appreciation for the simple hunts close to home that I used to take for granted.
When I was talking about all the money funnelling into smaller and smaller number of pockets I mean some guys get obscenely wealthy. So you have a certain segment of the population that is so insanely wealthy that they can do multiple sheep hunts a year, doesn't even impact their finances. How many sheep hunts are available in North Amera period? As in how many sheep are available to be shot?
According to the wild sheep foundation there are roughly 3600 sheep licenses available through the US and Canada annually. There are 16.3 million hunters in the USA and Canada combined. Many of these 3600 licenses are resident only, so I have no idea what percentage are available to the outsider. Even if you were to say that 3000 licenses were available to non residents that means 0.00018% of hunters can get a sheep license. That means 1.8 in every 10,000 hunters can get a sheep license. Are you one of the top 10,000 income earners among hunters? Cause that's what you're up against.
It's something to consider that 1 in 5,000 hunters can go sheep hunting, and some people go many times over. It's such a tiny segment of the population which relates back to wealth, capitalism, etc. Like I said, not complaining just showing the numbers and stating it like it is.
I don't know how old that wild sheep article I found is. Within the last 10 years or so. But who knows, maybe license numbers have even gone down since then.
Hit the nail right on the head Adam. There are many hunters out there that have worked very hard, are very successful, and now have a shit load of expendable income. Good for those guys! They earned it! Those guys are buying these hunts, and they will continue to. They have earned the right to spend their money however they see fit. It's a finite resource for certain species, it's not going to get better, EVER. If you want to do these hunts yo have two choices, get lucky AF in a raffle or draw, or work harder and save more.
I guess the other thing I did not consider is that hunters from the rest of the globe can also hunt sheep in NA as well I think right? If so, that very small pool of licenses gets divided even further.
When you consider, like some have mentioned those with disposable income and good for them, (not gonna lie wish it was me lol. ) can afford to hunt argali sheep or Markhor which are running triple digits. To them 25 to 40 grand is nothing.
It is sad how the ability to knock on a door and ask permission to hunt is tough if not next to impossible now in some areas.
I can attest to getting lucky af on a raffle hunt Brotsky!
Nothing will get cheaper. If you want to do it, do it now. And that’s not just hunting. Houses, cars, women… nothing gets cheaper
I booked my Yukon hunt in 2018 and scheduled it for 2022. Covid pushed it back to years to 2024. By then that hunt will be 8k higher. Luckily I’m locked in. I’ll be booking for 2025 soon…. Nothing gets cheaper. So if you can lock in a rate, do it
I think that the difficulty of drawing western tags has contributed greatly to the cost of guided hunts that come with available tags. When application fees can total thousands of dollars a year with slim chances to draw it is easy to justify a guided hunt in Canada. The NR costs in western states continue to go up and the odds keep getting worse. If we want to hunt have a quality hunt there are so few options today.
"Nothing will get cheaper. If you want to do it, do it now. And that’s not just hunting. Houses, cars, women… nothing gets cheaper"
Thinking out loud....that 3rd one may be open to discussion.
There are relatively few ways to get a tag to hunt bighorn sheep, moose and mountain goat. Same for high harvest rate hunts for low-pressure hunter numbers for mature animals. Draw odds mean you could go years or, more likely, decades or perhaps die before draw such a tag even if apply in several states.
You only need a few multi-millionaires to scoop up every auction tag for sheep, moose, goat and bison is the Lower 48.
That leaves some elk, deer and pronghorn tags available in the draw with relatively good odds and harvest rates and mature animals but minimal public land so guides can lock up the private land.
NM, OR, and WY all have preferences for guides by outright tag quotas or land rules for non-residents. CO, NM and NV have transferrable landowner tags that allow the guide to effectively slip in there as a broker no matter the rules. UT grabs 200 tags to generate a slush fund for a non-government entity to lobby which is pro-guide.
AK has restrictions on non-residents and dedicated quotas for guides.
A wealthy man has the same access as you in the draw and plenty of ways to gain an advantage by scratching a check at the going rate to hunt sheep or rutting elk or whatever every year.
The thing is, there are very few wealthy guides or outfitters. A lot of mouths to feed including horses and landowners to pay and insurance, etc. My anger is mostly at the legislatures that rig the game against Joe Sixpack and for Richie Rich.
Part of the problem is the infatuation and promotion of all the various “slams” out there. Used to be most hunters were content to hunt white tails near home each year with an occasional western hunt or Canada bear hunt thrown in. Now days we have people upset that they are priced out of trying for a NA super slam.
It really is too bad. Also interesting how outfitters typically would rather guide rifle hunters. Not usually too difficult to get someone within 500 yards of an animal. Bowhunters are just so much more work. Won't be long and you'll need to pay an additional cost to bowhunt.
It's as simple as supply and demand. When Outfitters begin to have a decrease in bookings their prices will come down. Basic economics.
Useless cody carr, in nw montana, repsonded to crappy game populations and low success rates by raising his prices by 40% for elk! Personally, i still hope to read his business gets shut down one day.
My daughters keep me from splurging on hunts and I have way more fun hunting around here with them. I hope I’ll be able to take them on hunts(somewhere other than Fl) one day
I had probably 4 caribou hunts that were $2500 or less in the 80’s and early 90’. Went the last year season was open in Quesbec with Jack Hume-only allowed one tag- i believe it was $5000. At one time i could have gone mountain caribou hunting for $5000. Now its $15,000 just for the hunt. Newfoundland hunt was $35000, now $12,000. The best caribou hunt i ever had was with Tittulick at Camp Oma. The next year they screwed all the hunters and stole their deposits. Quebec was a special place for many, many years, but the seasons have been shut down in Quebec, Labrador, NWT, and parts of Alaska, increasing the demand and costs.
A hunting buddy of mine took his father-in-law hunting Black Bears in Alaska 25 years ago. They hunted off a 50’ yacht with a professional chef in a coastal area loaded with BIG Black Bears. Both of them shot Boone & Crockett boars, all in for $6000. I ran into their guide at a sportsman’s show the following year and I asked him about his Coastal Brown Bear pricing. Same boat, identical hunting area for $18,000! I asked him why the price was TRIPLE when his overhead was identical for the two species. His response was simple: “What the market will bear”. I gave up any hopes of a Brown Bear hunt, and instead have gone on six Namibian safaris.
In 40 years of outfitting , no matter what the economic climate was, we never reduced prices. Yes we had cancellation hunts but we never lowered the list price in order to sell a hunt. In fact if we were having trouble selling a hunt, for whatever reason, we always raised the price to sell it.
There probably outfitters that do that, I never worried about what other outfitters were doing, except I always wanted them to be going it right
Years ago when we were selling about 12 coastal brown bear hunts a year we made a substantial increase in price. When we were told nobody would by them, my response was well maybe not in the states but the Japanese, Mexicans and others will. Global market for sure
As sad as it is no goods or services ever seem to go down so I would assume prices will continue to rise on guided hunts as long as there are people that will pay the price, and there have always been people worldwide that will pay the price. A sad reality for sure
Bud, $18K for Brown Bear is “cheap”.
Remember 1987 Chevy pickup was around 9 grand Good luck all Lewis
ultimately, hunters set the prices for guided hunts. outfitters will charge what the market will bear.
Nick: It was $18000 25 YEARS AGO.
Paying the outfitters for those hunts...just remember your guide on the last day...threw that in for a friend...
An archery Dall hunt in the NWT in 1984 was about $5,000. A Honda Civic about the same price. Today a Dall hunt is $30,000 and so is a Honda Civic....without doing much research on pricing of either.
I couldn't afford the $5,000 Dall hunt back then...same as a lot of folks with today's prices. Not sure the price ratio of the Dall hunt to the car has changed much.
Just got an email from WTA on a pheasant hunt. Two days of hunting and lodging with the chance to kill 3 birds each day. Whopping price of $2300.00 That does not include travel or license. I don't care how good the accomodations are, that's nuts!!!
That's only about $76 per ounce, or around $380 per bird. Might be cheaper than duck?
FYI I heard sheep outfitters in WY increased prices 50% of more overnight to make up for NR sheep tags cut in half next year. Most of them did it, so clearly they coordinated.
So Don if they coordinated does that make it a felony? :)
I paid 6500$ for my brown bear hunt.
On one of the “Slam” threads, someone posted a copy of Bowhunter magazine from the late 90s that had a list of species and prices provided by Bowhunting Safari Consultants for an article on “adventure” bowhunting for lack of a better term. I compared those prices with “average” prices for the same species from this year’s BSC catalogue and calculated an average inflation rate for those 23 years. You can see the rate of inflation is all over the place, but you can see the impact of supply and demand. Species with abundant supply - deer, black bear, etc - basically mirrored inflation trends for the broader economy. More limited species - most sheep, brown bear, etc - had inflation rates much higher than the broader economy. Some high-demand/dollar species, like desert sheep, actually had relatively low inflation rates as they are the one species where hunting opportunities have been increasing thanks to conservation and game management. Keep in mind this was an average rate over the 23 years.
On the whole, the inflation seems to outstrip the broader economy over the time period, but in most cases I wouldn’t say it’s drastically so. Would expect that if you took these rates and compared them to real estate returns or market returns over the same time period they’d be pretty on par. In addition to some of the comments above, the era of accommodative monetary policy has certainly not helped. Plenty of people have been able to tap into equity and capital at low rates to fund these adventures. Will be interesting to see how recent monetary policy will impact things.
Regular hunting remains affordable. It's trophy hunting, in very short supply, that becomes so expensive. Blame capitalism if you want, but wildlife departments, resident hunters, hunting videos and social media share the blame. I just returned from a DIY elk hunt in Colorado, and it was a dream hunt. For a 700$ tag, gas and not much else, we were seeing elk every day, didn't see another hunter except on the road between spots. We didn't get one (my partner missed a good 6x6). And it takes only 2-3 points to get that tag. We hunted there in 2018 and my other partner shot a big 6x6, big for that unit at least. Colorado in September is a glorious - and affordable - place to be. I did guided hunts in the past (elk, moose, caribou, mtn goat, 2 species of sheep) but I had as much fun on that hunt, or in Wyoming on a mule deer-antelope combo that was DIY. So yes, there is still a lot of fun hunting to do without a 5-figure bill, or 20 preference points.
Sheep prices are a direct reflection of a couple organizations concerted efforts to monetize the resource in such a way that skews the access of tags to befit their core constituents. By pricing out the majority of interested hunters they can negate the effects of scarcity by shifting access to a larger percentage of tags, with a price that’s afforded by a smaller percentage of hunters. They have never missed an opportunity to Feather their own nest while banging on the conservation drum.
So specifically what have sheep organizations done to drive up prices? They contribute major dollars to conservation projects that benefit all wildlife. You should take the time to learn about organizations before making such misinformed comments.
In 1989 I purchased a new single cab Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT for $18,500. That same year year I did a 7 day Mountain Caribou hunt in the N.W.T for $2600 plus $500 for the return bush flight. That similar truck I can get today for about $36,000.00, about double. I’d be happy to pay double today what I paid for that Caribou hunt in 1989.
DWU good point. FYI for those who do not know the rule of 72:
Generally speaking if you divide and interest rate into 72 you get the number of years it will take to double. For example if you are earning a 10% interest rate (or inflation is at 10%) it will take roughly 7 years to double. This is a really good tool I use often for estimates.
Complaining about price of hunts and then paying for it? If hunters stood up and said no to the pricing, outfitters would have to adjust. It would take one or two years of no clients to make them adjust, but the problem is egos. Egos of hunters in general when it comes to wall hangers. The industry has really done a number on hunters and itself in the long run. We as a community think that a big rack means a great hunter and maybe years ago it did. In today's world a eighty year old can put up a 200 inch deer every year if they choose to do so, they just have to be able and willing to buy it. The hunting industry has focused on trophy game for the purpose of selling more gear and they have done such a great job of it that eventually it's going to bit them in the arse. The word bow hunting will be extinct in ten years. X bows and airbows will be the weapon of choice, and if you doubt it look at a basspro magazine and look at the pages of xbows they are selling vs vertical bows. Go to public land and just watch the hunters walking in/out of the field and your hard pressed to see a vertical bow. Selling the sizzle is what you do when in sales and outfitters know how to sell it. Stop buying your trophies and the prices will fall, just like any market out their it's all about demand, simple .
"Complaining about price of hunts and then paying for it? If hunters stood up and said no to the pricing, outfitters would have to adjust. It would take one or two years of no clients to make them adjust, but the problem is egos."
You assume that because you can't afford it, or don't want to, others should feel similarly and be similarly restricted. Maybe other just have more money and they can do what some can't. is that an ego issue? are they just blessed/
whatever, but expecting those who can do it, not do it, because someone else can't do it is crazy and not realistic.
Not everyone can afford gas these days should we all stop driving?
Bigeasygator, great chart! It does highlight that many of the species that have greatly increased in price are also the ones that have decreased in supply. Especially the supply of good quality trophy hunts like Stone sheep, Bighorns, Shiras moose, Tule elk, Caribou. If the supply of these hunts could be increased like it was for Desert Sheep then price increases would at least slow.
One year, just one year of not paying their prices and their prices will change. It's business.
Sapcut. Never going to happen. But dreams are what inspires many people
From Huntin Fool. This will only drive up prices for every western hunt even higher.
From Huntin Fool. This will only drive up prices for every western hunt even higher.
From the article: One trend that hasn’t changed in the last 20+ years is the downward trend in populations of wildlife (I’m talking ungulate species, not large predators) and the increase demand for tags to hunt wildlife. OTC tags will soon be gone for non residents in every state.
And this certainly isn’t outfitters somehow fixing the supply.
I completely agree with everything Pat wrote. I have had dozens of unbelievable experiences. That would not happen if I started over. Affordable guided hunt costs, and consistently drawing good tags, are a thing of he past. Their is nothing we can do about this, which stinks.
They only go up for one reason, somebody is rich enough and arrogant enough to pay more than the next guy.
As wealth accumulates through generations you now have a huge number of people with both the time and money to hunt multiple states when it comes to OTC and draw tags. Used to be pretty rare to hear of guys that did multiple states etc. Now everyone does it.
Supposedly hunter numbers are declining, but obviously those same number of hunters are buying way more tags than the old number of hunters did. Not only that, but your average hunter is far more efficient with today's bows and tech.
Ward's Outfitters has barely raised our prices over the past 5 years. Our biggest expense is food and Gas. We offer Youth hunt free hunts with a fully paying adult on all of our deer and Javelina hunts. You would be surprised a t how many DO NOT take advantage of this. Our thought process is getting the youth as the future involved in our sport.
outlaw guiding on public land /national forest shouldn't be allowed to profit off a public resource . never used a guide never will (and yes I can easily afford it) I get more satisfaction diy guide us just a fancy term for babysitter
People want to make more money. Other people are willing to spend it. With tags getting harder to get, it isn’t going to change.
Outfitters these days are like most entrepreneurs looking to make as much with as little effort as they can. I hunted with a friend and three of his guides this fall and listening to them talk about they're clients and how fast they can get them tagged and out of camp shocked me. The talk about the inexperienced hunters and how they will be more than happy with a dink buck for $7000. I'm sure there are great outfits out there but I think they are getting fewer and fewer around
The answer is simple, but hard - we have to grow the resource. If the national forests are better managed, animal numbers will increase and there will be more opportunities. Is that going to happen? I go out of State and see forests that are begging prescribed burns. Huge habitat benefits, not to mention reduced wildfire risk. Not holding my breath. 'Liberal' politicians ban hunting when and wherever they can, regardless of what the resource can sustain. Here in Commie California, areas with lots of game animals can't be hunted, and where you can hunt, it is slim pickings.
Outfitters should get every cent they can. Doing a top-rate job is a year-round effort, and the money only comes in during very limited periods.
Its Inflation pure and simple.
It seems our gov tweaks their inflation numbers trying to fool the avg voter to exclude essentials; Food, Energy and Hunting Trips
Inflation maybe, but they know they can still get customers if they keep bumping prices.
If you’re good you can charge whatever you want!
Outfitters only need to appeal to a small number of people to make a Go of it. They are not trying to be available to the masses
Inflation is part of it. But the bigger part is supply and demand. There’s a lot more demand for Alaska/Yukon moose than there is real opportunities to hunt them. So those outfitters can raise their prices, a lot. Same is true for sheep, brown bear, trophy elk, etc.
There may be a component of the increase tied to inflation, but the increase in many hunt costs is predominantly supply/demand-related. Stone sheep hunts didn’t increase from $35K to $65K in less than a decade due to inflation. That was predominantly due to demand increasing substantially for a very limited resource.
Sounds like PLM tule bull elk hunts will be seeing a ~50% increase from a couple years ago to the next 2 years in most places for the same reason. Hunts that were in the low-mid $20K range will be pushing $35K. Even in instances where guides buy the tags and resell them, the vast majority of those dollars go to landowners who only have a minimal investment in the tags. Those prices are coming about because it has been demonstrated hunters will pay it, not because an increase in the underlying cost to run the hunt demands it.
Funny how nobody else is allowed to make a decent wage except for the guy complaining about price...
Yep. People offering a service are often haggled and told they are too high by guys that want a $20,000 price for their self so they can save money versus, a $30,000 price so the supplier can make the same profit in his business. It’s not a bad phenomenon. It’s just the way it is.
The money the outfitters have in stock, tents, wranglers, and guides is no chump change. The majority of outfitters do it to make a little money. In all reality it’s for the most part of the love for the outdoors. It is a business no matter if you’re only there 5-7 days. They feed livestock and work 365. While we’re back east or wherever they are wading snow feeding everyday. I will not disagree on some of the prices being very high, but I would agree also that it is about knowledge and time in the brush. It’s simply like anything else you pay for. The good ones aren’t looking for clients because they’re waiting in line. To me it’s like a good tradesman. They have work piled up and waiting on them.
With all that being said I cannot afford or wound I pay the high prices for guided hunts if I could. I’ve worked hard for my money as well as everyone else and just feel guilty paying for something I could use the money for my family. Old saying my dad always said “ Son not everyone is broke”.
I have a hard time with the notion that because someone has the time and money to do multiple hunts they are arrogant and selfish.
The only complaint I would have, not that it matters to me personally, is the species that require a guide without an option for DIY. I would exclude the super rare/exotic hunts like polar bear from my beef. Guide requirements are not a problem in a vacuum, but when coupled with the high prices are a real hurdle for some folks. I don't necessarily think it is the best thing for hunting in the grand scheme, but outfitters should be able to charge what they want.
I'm 53 - I missed the chance to build PP's up or to hunt in the 1990's are what (looking back) were cheap prices
Only by moving to Alaska and becoming a resident do I ever have the chance to hunt moose/sheep/goat etc
that's my reality
I’m at the SCI convention that ended yesterday. Prices are insane. up about 80% from what they were about 4 years ago for foreign hunts I’m interested in. Crazy. Needless to say I didn’t book any.
Bullbuster,
Just curious what hunts you were looking at?
I also noticed auction prices seemed to very high too.
It was the highest attended SCI convention to date. They questioned if they should hold it at Nashville. And many did not want to move it.
Ended up being a good decision. I think New Orleans may be next. And I think Indianapolis
Nashville was brilliant. Unless they clean up New Orleans, that would be a disaster in my opinion and I do t understand any draw to Indianapolis.
I booked 2 hunts at the auction and got a decent price. Some outfitter hunts have gone through the roof. A Yukon moose hunt is now 36k. But they’re also booked through 2024. It’s all supply and demand.
If you can afford outfitted hunts and want to spend the money, go.
If not, hunt the DIY opportunities available, and make the most of them. My beef is that outfitters are driving up the demand for leasing of land, which compresses those of us who used to have great private land hunting just by door-knocking or cowboying for a couple weekends a year. But that ship sailed a long time ago, and it ain't coming back in our lifetimes. No sense crying over what "was".
Hunting is still readily available and affordable for everyone. Maybe not for 170 whitetails or 370 elk or Stone's sheep, but if that is important to you, figure out how to make more money or make sacrifices. That's the beauty of living in this country.
1999 a dall sheep hunt cost 19% of an annual median household income. 2022 dall sheep is 38% of median household income. Wages have lagged 8% below BLS projections. Workers shares of corporate income has dropped by 10%. GINI coefficient which was relatively stable until NAFTA went parabolic post early 90s. People make less after adjusting to inflation and the USA is becoming more unequal. Currently about .49 or .5 GINI. Loss of wages and increase in popularity isn’t helping the average Joe go guided.
https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/
Thedude, nobody has a clue what you’re saying but it sounds good…or maybe bad?
Jaquamo.
Absolutely on point.
One persons desire is another persons dream. Nothing wrong with that.
I’ll take on extra work, longer hours ect. to take care of my responsibilities and my hunting dreams.
BTW. There are deals to be had out there. Many outfitters receive deposits and that’s it, thinking they have the client booked, and then the client reschedules or cancels. The outfitter still needs to fill the schedule. It’s a matter of staying in touch and strike the iron when it’s hot.
My Mt .Lion outfitter had this very situation on 2 hunts this past winter and both went 20% below advertised price because he is holding the 2 deposits due to rescheduling.
You just never know.
Agree with Jaq. The loss of land to hunt has been tough on the locals in my area. But like he said, complaining about doesn't help a thing. So I just make the most out of the trips to Colorado. And I bought me a boat. Fishing is a great way to enjoy the outdoors and the whole family can go along
2024 SCI is back to Nashville then New Orleans, and Indy
I agree, no thanks to New Orleans
Holding the show more toward the center of the country both geographically and population wise is a no brainer.
Talked to Jim Lancaster from Nahanni Butte by text today and he said they were swamped. I did not attend but a friend who did said Jim ran out of hunt contracts at the show.
Jim said he's booked out so far, he's booking in 2027.
I booked 2 hunts at the auction and got a decent price. Some outfitter hunts have gone through the roof. A Yukon moose hunt is now 36k. But they’re also booked through 2024. It’s all supply and demand.
Many of the rich got richer during Covid and Big Game management has gotten worse. More demand, worse supply.
You can blame your government bureaucrats, and politicians and the voting public that keep these people in power! Usually it’s leftists, liberals that are causing the problems.
I was single and in the service in 1967, and when my buddies and I came up for rotation, they were like Germany, France, Japan. I chose Alaska and never regretted it. Sheep, moose, caribou, and bears, Oh My. Got discharged in 73, and went back for 10 more years. I'd go back now but I'm so damn old and I couldn't do it justice.
I've been truck shopping and am pulling the trigger. Guided hunt$ are slightly more jaw-dropping somehow.
