Corax_latrans's Link
This is a link to an article on the 10 most overrated cartridges, and that 10 MM that so many of you guys have been advocating actually made his list.
Read the article if you wish. Come back and argue if you feel like it. I don’t really have a dog in the fight except that I do think that maybe a wheelgun enthusiast with some realistic expectations as to his upper limit for recoil might take a hard look at the .45 LC. Near as I can figure it, a hot-loaded .45LC is right on par with a .44 Mag., or you can (factory loaded) take it down to about 1/2 thr ME of the .44 Mag…. And if you’re a SA guy, why would you not go .45??? LOL
I expect a .44 mag is more versatile still (because of the SPCLs), if you can manage the hot stuff in the mag.
It's a handful but with practice, it's fine. Great big game round and pretty amazing range off a set of sticks. Mine is a 5.5" Ruger Bisley.
Gotta love those antique cartridges that are scaled for BP loads. SO much untapped capacity. Now I just need a Marlin in .45LC… To go with the the .45/70…. ;)
(I would not care to shoot 45-70 in any handgun, no matter how heavy!)
If the LC comes anywhere close to the Casull, I can only think of one reason to buy a Casull, which is that a purpose-built revolver in that chambering would be correspondingly massive.
From a packability standpoint, I was thinking the standard Blackhawk, though I suppose it’s possible that that one is not rated for those very high pressures…
I just have to approach everything from a “what’s going to fit me?” POV, and a lot of the popular choices and I just aren’t physically compatible. For a while many years ago, a particular girl & I kinda had a thing for each other…. She was 6’1”…. Some things worked better than others.
The .41 magnum outperforms the 10 mm in every way, and the 10 mm may “kick” too much for a wuss, not so for an accomplished shooter. The .280 AI will do anything a 7 mm magnum will do and the 7 mm magnum is a good, flat shooting cartridge. I wonder sometimes how these “gunwriters” even survive. BTW, an animal will never know whether you kill it with a .41 mag or a .44 mag. The .41 shoots a little flatter but the difference in bullet weight is less than a .22 long rifle bullet.
And just in case you’re wondering, the Ruger revolvers will stand damn near any reasonable cartridge that you can stick into them. They aint your grandaddy’s Colt ! Peruse the Single Action Pro Boards sometimes and read about the wildcats and SAAMI approved cartridges those guys shoot. It should be an eye opener.
I don’t know enough about being a gun crank to opine on Petzal & his preferences other than that he writes well, and that I was very pleased when he came to the revelation that the mild-mannered 7-08 is every bit as good as the guy not getting his head knocked off by it… I being a reformed 7-Mag owner myself… I hated to let that one go, but I can’t say that I’ve missed it any.
I don’t know enough about being a gun crank to opine on Petzal & his preferences other than that he writes well, and that I was very pleased when he came to the revelation that the mild-mannered 7-08 is every bit as good as the guy not getting his head knocked off by it… I being a reformed 7-Mag owner myself… I hated to let that one go, but I can’t say that I’ve missed it any.
2nd is the Ackley's. I can't speak for em all but I do have some experience with a 6mm AI. And WOW. Easily over 4000fps with lighter varmint bullets and 500 fps faster than a factory loaded 243 with deer sized bullets.
These days I shy away from heavy recoil guns and my long range deer rifle is a custom 6.5x284 win. fairly low recoil and super flat for a short action cartridge working with around 50 grains of power.
As far as hand guns go imo the difference between a critter killing pistol and a people killing pistol is like night & day. I've never shot a 10. But but have plenty of experience with a 357 mag and would consider that to be about the most recoil I'd want in a people killing gun. And would consider the 357mag to be about the lightest handgun cartridge for deer sized game. I had a Dan Wesson 357 maximum silhouette pistol that I killed a few deer with and wish I still had. I also hunted with a few 44 revolvers, TC's and a rem xp 100 in 7mm br. But lost interest in pistol hunting for some reason. Recoil anxiety mostly. I have two 9mm's & a 38 for cc purpose and do not and probably never will hunt in big bear country.
You’re Trolling again today? Because nobody ever said they were “comparable”.
And I guess “good” is subjective.
A 7Mag won’t do anything that a 7-08 won’t do, but if you’re willing to carry a heavy, long-barreled rifle and put up with the additional expense, recoil, muzzle blast and meat loss, the belted round WILL do it from another 100 or couple hundred yards away. The 7-08’s useful to about 250 yards, which is about 50% farther than the longest shot I’ve ever taken on an animal and frankly, there was just no juice in it.
Zeroed at 200 yards, my old Sako would pretty much hit dimes at that range. A gallon jug usually has a 3” circle on at least one side, and at 300 yards, when I hid the cap of the jug behind the crosshairs, the bullets always landed in the circle. I can’t recall if that scope topped out at 7X or 7.5X. Didn’t matter. I killed a LOT of milkjugs for a few years…
Anyway, for me there’s just no up-side to a Magnum ANYTHING, really. Not that I couldn’t figure out how to put one to good use, but I’m just not that interested.
I live and hunt in wide open KS and a few Western states. The 7 mag is actually looked upon by many as underpowered by guys that hunt Idaho and Colorado where 500 yard shots and beyond are common. Some prefer the 28 Nosler, 300 PRC, 7mm STW, or the .30-378Weatherby and the such. 250 yards is close, off-hand 30-30 range. I've got a pair of 7 mags. And have killed, with one shot, out past 500 yards. The threaded Tikka, I use my YHM Phantom silencer, and it reduces the report to a .22 and recoil to a nudge so soft, my neighbor's 12 year old daughter shoots it with ease. Your 7mm-08 is useful far beyond 250 yards. I guarantee with the right scope, ballistics chart, and ammo, you could make hits past 600 yards fairly easily with it. That being said, it doesn't hold a candle to the 7 mag at long range for either energy, or trajectory.
I somewhat agree with you that the 7mag is not a significant improvement over the 7mm08 with let's say 140 grain bullets. But load the 7mag with a 180 grain berger vld with a ballistic coefficient of 673 in front of some slow burning powder & a long barrel and now your comparing a VW bug to a porsche. You hunt hardwoods and the 7mm08 is a great choice. In the late season I sit on the edge of several hundred acre corn & been fields. I really don't consider it hunting it's more like grocery shopping with a gun. But heavy high bc bullets pushed by slow burning powder from long barreled guns definitely have their place.
What's "better" is subjective. Is a 30-378 a better elk round than a 6.5 Creedmoor? If you can shoot both equally well, maybe. Most elk are lost by poor placement more than what cartridge the hunter used.
So I don’t think I’m selling the 7-08 short; I’m just playing the game under the rules I grew up with.
If you want to hunt with a gadget that tells you exactly how far away you are, that’s fine. I don’t. I like to get Close Enough that it doesn’t matter. That’s the point of the exercise, and if I have to think about it, I’m not there yet. I’m just more interested in solving the strategic problem of getting myself closer to the target than solving the math problem of where to aim from where I am.
Other folks’ priorities may differ, but that’s why they’re THEIR priorities and not mine.
For some reason some of Y'all speak as if you believe a big magnum is required to shoot past a few hundred yards.
I’ll admit that I like the .284 just as it is, but with a properly constructed bullet, 130 in a 6.5 oughtta be pretty slick on deer & smaller…
When I bought the 7-08, Big Green was loading an “Extended Range” round for it with a 154 boattail. My little Mtn Rifle shot that one like they were made for each other.
Of course, if I wanted a short-action bolt-gun In Case Of Bears, I’d probably look at something in a .338…. But I already have the .45-70, so…..
You complain about 7 mag recoil but have a 45-70 ?????
And I'm getting the impression that you feel the 6.5 is at best a varmints & thin skinned game bullet. .......,.if so you couldn't be more wrong......now I'm not saying I'd use the 130s I shoot deer with but I'd kill everything in north America except a grizz or polar bear with my 6.5x284.
I know what a long action magnum is. I know what a short magnum is. I know the difference between light-for-caliber and heavy-for-caliber bullets. And I know you can do a hell of a lot more these days with the same cartridge/caliber bullet than you could do 35 years ago when I was getting into this stuff. Provided that you choose the right bullet for the application.
I don’t think I “complained“ about the recoil of the seven mag; I just don’t miss it. No doubt it was a terrible choice for a first hunting rifle, but I got to where I could keep my eyes open, see the milk jug blow up, rack a second round into the chamber, and never let the second milk jug out of my field of view through the scope. So I think I had it pretty well under control. I just don’t see much point in soaking up the added recoil for the privilege of throwing the same bullet faster just so that I could hit targets far beyond anything I ever would have considered for hunting purposes even when I was most interested in long range shooting.
So if I’m going to put up with added recoil, I want it to be because I am throwing a suitably convincing hunk of lead at adequate speed to get myself out of a jam in close quarters. Honestly, that’s not likely to ever come up, but meanwhile, standard factory .45/70 loads are actually kind of pleasant to shoot once you get away from the bench and they’re a good deer round. And now that we know that high-velocity slugs splatter lead fragments all through a carcass, I’m even happier shooting low-velocity slugs at stuff I’m planning to eat.
Or arrows, ideally. Steel’s non-toxic ;)
As far as bullets designed to deliver extreme hydrostatic shock inside the chest cavity of an animal spreading lead particals throughout the entire animal. You just can't be serious @@##$$&&.... near about every animal I've ever killed with a rifle the area around the bullet impact and exit is a bloody quagulated mess and non edible irregardless.
