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Utah proposed Elk changes
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
LUNG$HOT 26-Oct-22
Bou’bound 26-Oct-22
Tilzbow 26-Oct-22
SteveB 26-Oct-22
LUNG$HOT 26-Oct-22
SteveB 26-Oct-22
wildwilderness 26-Oct-22
JakeBrake 27-Oct-22
BULELK1 27-Oct-22
wildwilderness 27-Oct-22
nmwapiti 27-Oct-22
HDE 27-Oct-22
YZF-88 27-Oct-22
Charlie Rehor 27-Oct-22
HDE 27-Oct-22
BULELK1 28-Oct-22
Sivart 28-Oct-22
HDE 28-Oct-22
nmwapiti 28-Oct-22
Tilzbow 28-Oct-22
Tracker 28-Oct-22
BULELK1 29-Oct-22
DConcrete 29-Oct-22
BULELK1 30-Oct-22
Lee 30-Oct-22
DConcrete 30-Oct-22
HDE 30-Oct-22
DConcrete 30-Oct-22
SteveB 30-Oct-22
DConcrete 30-Oct-22
LUNG$HOT 30-Oct-22
From: LUNG$HOT
26-Oct-22

LUNG$HOT's Link
Looks like some changes coming to Utah.

From: Bou’bound
26-Oct-22
They will make the right decisions

From: Tilzbow
26-Oct-22
Seems like they’re continually moving from quality opportunities to quantity opportunities (and increased tag revenue). I also fail to understand how giving out 15,000 spike tags annually is a justifiable biological strategy to improve herd health. Makes me wish I could’ve burned my 16 points a while back…..

From: SteveB
26-Oct-22
How does this affect non-residents?

"Six additional general-season any bull elk hunting units in the Nine Mile, Paunsaugunt, West Desert, Central Mountains, Book Cliffs and Box Elder areas across the state, while also adding a new general-season spike hunt in the Diamond Mountain unit in northeast Utah."

From: LUNG$HOT
26-Oct-22
Pulling a page from the Colorado playbook. Liberal tag numbers for sure. Basically creating several OTC units.

From: SteveB
26-Oct-22
I'm meaning the increased LE tags in the above listed areas? Will non res get any of those?

26-Oct-22
Usually NR gets about 10% of tags (minus expo tags)

So new LE tags would probably add more opportunities. The way they justify more tags will be to lower age objectives in LE units, thus a decline in trophy quality.

More spike tags theoretically don’t negatively affect herd populations.

Not sure what to make of all the changes.

From: JakeBrake
27-Oct-22
The diamond unit will suffer just like the Bookcliff with that added spike hunt…don’t those idiots learn anything

From: BULELK1
27-Oct-22
They are just Proposals, let's see how they play out and are finalized.

I don't see anything about tag allocation % changes?? so those should stay within the 10% one would consider.

Good luck, Robb

27-Oct-22
I take it Robb you don’t care for any of the proposed changes?

From: nmwapiti
27-Oct-22
Utah has it all wrong for average hunters and will be until they completely revamp their approach. The only people who benefit now are landowners, guides and the rich. Throw in rifle hunters who get an unusual opportunity to hunt peak rut, but that comes with an enormous loss of opportunity for everyone. Adding some more overhunted otc areas and killing more spikes isn't going to help.

Based on 35 years of hunting all over the west, here's my recommendation. No more spike hunts (killing most spikes lowers bull to cow ratios and makes weird herd distributions. It also really depresses the rut activity because of a lack of harassing young bulls). No more otc units (lots of lousy hunting doesn't make anyone happy). No more preference points, bonus points instead (try telling a 20 year old that he can hunt those big bulls in 25 years if he starts paying now). Archery elk runs Sep 1-30. Muzzy runs Oct 1-14. Rifle runs Oct 15-30 (no more shooting the biggest bulls at 900 yards during the peak of the rut). Let the biologists set the herd size objectives. Then you allow the most hunters in each area that you can yearly, based on normal weapon success rates. No one will be able to hunt every year, but you'll get to go every few years. No more waiting 20+ years to chase bulls. They'll still be big bulls as long as you don't overharvest. NM, MT and WY have big elk just like Utah, they just aren't as easy to kill.

From: HDE
27-Oct-22
^^^^ all of this except shorten the muzzy and rifle hunts to 7 and 5 days respectively. Move both muzzy and rifle start dates back a week.

From: YZF-88
27-Oct-22
I’ll never take Utah seriously because of the expo and auction tag theft. These jackwagons pad the wallets and are the only reason certain private organizations exist.

Hope to draw archery elk next year and be done. Hopefully before they lower the age structure.

When they lower the age classes for the LE units as proposed, it’ll allow them to really ramp up the LE tag quotas and make it even more crowded.

27-Oct-22
A non-resident can archery hunt spike bulls and cow elk every year for around $400 bucks. That’s the best deal in Utah.

From: HDE
27-Oct-22
^^^ no they can't Charlie. Price went up.

From: BULELK1
28-Oct-22
I learned the hard way years ago that I'll lose every time by bitching and moaning about Change in any State I hunt.

Now, I just try and see how I can turn the 'New Changes' into a positive option for me to still be able to draw if needed and to hunt.

I've drawn 3 LE Bull Bow tags (Ressy) over the years with all the chitty bow dates and with the changes over that time period.

Good luck, Robb

From: Sivart
28-Oct-22
I will never understand the Spike tag concept. Seems ridiculous

From: HDE
28-Oct-22
^^^ it's a tradition. It's all about family fun in the outdoors.

From: nmwapiti
28-Oct-22
Yeah. Gives opportunity without killing all the breeding bulls. It's a bad idea though. I saw it in the blue mountains in WA state too. Really messed up herd distribution with almost no middle age bulls. I didn't realize how much it suppresses the rut until this year.

From: Tilzbow
28-Oct-22
Its obvious some get the downside of killing lots of spike elk. Just in case anyone isn’t aware, a spike bull isn’t some genetically inferior animal, it’s merely a 17-20 month old bull (last year’s bull).

I had a spike tag in NV this year, they gave out 10 in the unit i hunted and we never saw a spike after 8 days of hunting and two days of scouting. We talked to a park ranger who lived in the middle of the unit and he said he hadn’t seen a spike in over two years, said he couldn’t understand the rational for the hunt and also commented on the negative impact the drought has had on the herd in recent years. The unit I hunted was due south of Ely, NV which isn’t far from the UT border. I guess the good news it there was a lot of monsoonal rain over the late summer and the range looked like a golf course, although most of the higher springs and 50% of the lower springs were still dry.

From: Tracker
28-Oct-22
I have been fortunate to travel out west and hunt elk since the early 80's and killed a few elk on those trips. Lots of rag horns in CO and a few good bulls on my LE hunts. My biggest bull is far from my most memorable. I'm all for giving the most opportunity for the hunter.

From: BULELK1
29-Oct-22

BULELK1's Link
I don't have any experience on any LE units that have spike hunts as far as drawing an LE bow bull tag as my LE unit is 1 of the 3 LE units that doesn't offer spike hunting.

Although, I see they are considering adding a spike hunt to 1 of the 3 in the proposals.

Another link (Land Owner Tags) as it looks like they are trying to Re-invent the Diamond Mnt. LE unit.

Good luck, Robb

From: DConcrete
29-Oct-22
Robb, there’s a lot of hunters that believe blowing up the land owner tag program is going to result in more tags for the public.

The truth is, nothing could be further from the truth.

What you’re going to have happen is this…..the landowners are going to lose out here and they’re all going to be calling in 72 hour kill notices. And the division of wildlife isn’t going to react to those notices. You know if and I know it.

And then they’re going to slaughter them to prove the point to the state. Anyone who thinks otherwise, isn’t thinking.

Sure, the public may get some extra tags for a year or 2. But the unit will end up being slaughtered from 72 hour kill Notices.

From: BULELK1
30-Oct-22
Yeah, it's screwy for sure Jeff.

There just seems to always be a lop hole or a go around to defeat the purpose.

Good luck, Robb

From: Lee
30-Oct-22
What’s a 72 hr kill notice?

From: DConcrete
30-Oct-22
In Utah, if a landowner has animals on his land that they don’t want on there, they call the division of wildlife and give them the legal 72 hour notice to remove the animals. Since the animals belong to the state, it’s the state’s responsibility to remove the animals. If the state doesn’t respond, which they never do, the land owner can kill them All, legally. I have a good friend that owns several thousand acres of corn. Last year, his crop damage was estimated at 300,000.00 from Bull elk.

From: HDE
30-Oct-22
^^^ can the LO back charge the division for damages during that 72 hr wait period...?

From: DConcrete
30-Oct-22
I am not sure if the actual details. This landowner gets quite a few depredation tags. But not enough to offset the true damages.

I don’t know if they can back charge If they get depredation tags or not.

From: SteveB
30-Oct-22
“$300,000.00 from Bull elk” Yeah, because cows don’t eat corn.

From: DConcrete
30-Oct-22
It isn’t them eating it. The bulls go in and ravage it. Rake it, and cause an awful lot of crop damage.

This is a fact. I’ve seen it a lot. And oh yeah, they do offer the cow tags as well. But the property doesn’t get the cows very often.

I realize guys like us would love To have the crop Damage and have the elk. I know I wouldn’t care.

But I’d damn sure care if it were the elk destroying how I made my money. And don’t forget the private Property rights. Which I support 100%.

The animals belong to the state. The state has a legal obligation to remove them.

From: LUNG$HOT
30-Oct-22
The rule/ law also states the LO is not entitled to keep the game meat and is also required to give their best attempt to preserve and care for the meat so the state can “donate” the meat.

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