Mathews Inc.
WY elk price increase proposed
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Jaquomo 26-Oct-22
standswittaknife 26-Oct-22
Aspen Ghost 26-Oct-22
Cazador 26-Oct-22
BOHNTR 26-Oct-22
BOHNTR 26-Oct-22
Jethro 26-Oct-22
Jordan 26-Oct-22
Snag 26-Oct-22
Willieboat 26-Oct-22
HDE 26-Oct-22
bghunter 26-Oct-22
RonP 26-Oct-22
KSBOW 27-Oct-22
PECO2 27-Oct-22
SBH 27-Oct-22
goelk 27-Oct-22
nmwapiti 27-Oct-22
Chief23 27-Oct-22
HDE 27-Oct-22
Snag 27-Oct-22
Missouribreaks 27-Oct-22
Scoot 27-Oct-22
JL 27-Oct-22
Missouribreaks 27-Oct-22
JL 27-Oct-22
Missouribreaks 27-Oct-22
Snag 27-Oct-22
Jaquomo 27-Oct-22
JL 27-Oct-22
midwest 27-Oct-22
Jaquomo 27-Oct-22
JL 27-Oct-22
ultimag 01-Nov-22
nmwapiti 01-Nov-22
Snag 01-Nov-22
Inshart 02-Nov-22
DonVathome 02-Nov-22
Scoot 02-Nov-22
thedude 02-Nov-22
elkmtngear 02-Nov-22
grossklw 02-Nov-22
pav 02-Nov-22
Bowfreak 02-Nov-22
Bigdog 21 02-Nov-22
pav 02-Nov-22
pav 02-Nov-22
nmwapiti 03-Nov-22
wytex 03-Nov-22
Jaquomo 03-Nov-22
nmwapiti 03-Nov-22
Deertick 03-Nov-22
nmwapiti 03-Nov-22
DonVathome 03-Nov-22
nmwapiti 03-Nov-22
Jeff Holchin 03-Nov-22
ultimag 03-Nov-22
nmwapiti 03-Nov-22
Jaquomo 03-Nov-22
ultimag 04-Nov-22
DonVathome 04-Nov-22
Elkfreak 06-Nov-22
HDE 06-Nov-22
sticksender 06-Nov-22
Jaquomo 06-Nov-22
nmwapiti 06-Nov-22
thedude 06-Nov-22
Jaquomo 06-Nov-22
HDE 06-Nov-22
nmwapiti 06-Nov-22
yooper89 06-Nov-22
WapitiBob 06-Nov-22
nmwapiti 06-Nov-22
yooper89 06-Nov-22
HDE 06-Nov-22
From: Jaquomo
26-Oct-22

Jaquomo's Link
Proposal to increase WY NR special draw fee will bring the total to almost $2K if it passes. This is supposedly to "bring the price more in line with other states".

I would pay that if it brought the draw odds down and reduced point creep.

26-Oct-22
If anything, it will increase point creep overall for the general licenses. Just another reason to rape the NR community and make it harder for everyday hunters to be able to hunt wyoming. I get it to some extent when it comes to raising funds, but also think resident hunters should pay substantially more to help offset the costs. That is coming from a Colorado elk hunter that would pay more for my resident tag. I'm also curious when the RMEF is going to finally have some input here. If I were east of Colorado and on a RMEF committee, I would quite immediately and make my voice heard loudly. What am a getting out of the RMEF accept silence while the west continues to make it harder and harder for me to hunt? A lot of money is raised at the banquets east of elk range, and at some point, my guess is these people won't be that stupid for much longer.

From: Aspen Ghost
26-Oct-22
And then all the other elk states will raise theirs to "bring the price more in line with other states".

Elk hunters are too good at promoting elk hunting. We should have been telling people how much elk hunting sucks for the last 30 years.

From: Cazador
26-Oct-22

Cazador's Link
As a guy who killed an elk in WY this year, had a nice hunt on a GEN tag, no way I'm paying that. There are better options.

Also see the other thread already started here---------->

From: BOHNTR
26-Oct-22
Hmmm, more in line with other states? AZ s still just over $800 (license and tag) for NR’s.

From: BOHNTR
26-Oct-22

From: Jethro
26-Oct-22
Can still apply in Reg draw if can’t afford the $2k

From: Jordan
26-Oct-22
Priority for the rich. To hell with the masses. Red state mentality.

From: Snag
26-Oct-22
Red state mentality…come on.

From: Willieboat
26-Oct-22
Just work a extra shift it comes down to how bad you want it.

From: HDE
26-Oct-22
Hilarious. WY sent me a reminder to apply for my point before the deadline and to not jeopardize losing any points. And then they announce a price hike.

Jokers...

From: bghunter
26-Oct-22
I was going to try and wait a few more years as I only have 3 points. After reading how some have done well in General Units with 3 points I may consider burning them on a hunt

Now comes the fun part if hiring a guide

From: RonP
26-Oct-22
the only upside and reason i would pay this amount is having a tag from the special draw allows you to corner hop. if it weren't for that, i would not even think about it.

From: KSBOW
27-Oct-22
This would be increase for the special what would be cost for regular draw?

From: PECO2
27-Oct-22
"What am I getting out of the RMEF?"

"Ensure the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat and our hunting heritage." This is off the RMEF homepage.

From: SBH
27-Oct-22
Yikes. That's getting expensive for just a tag!!

Aspen Ghost is spot on. Social media, YouTube, go hunt, stone glacier, randy newberg, Eastmans, sitka, Kuiu, meat eater, elk shape, Cameron Hanes and all of the podcast.....the list goes on and on and on. They are pumping hunting and making money. The influx of hunters won't end. Hunting has become "cool".

We are running out of the resource in MT at an alarming rate. Cant' keep this going much longer without dramatic cut in tags. Also agree that residents are getting by too cheaply and non res are funding the whole scam.

From: goelk
27-Oct-22
Spot On Aspen Ghost

From: nmwapiti
27-Oct-22
I completely disagree with the "market approach" to setting tag prices. Increasing the cost until demand drops because only a percentage of the population can afford to hunt is flat out wrong. The wildlife belong to everyone.

From: Chief23
27-Oct-22
Personally, I thought it was slightly arrogant of what Lee Livingston and Sy Gilliland stated that non-residents are still willing to pay whatever it takes to hunt in Wyoming. I have been hunting the Western States since 2004. I have done my share of outfitted hunts in the past but felt it was turning into the saying of . Its all about the money for the outfitters and the hunt was secondary. Much more satisfaction of diy. Kinda like all the Buch Beer banners welcoming the hunters. Is it truly welcoming us NR or dang I hope these NR stop at our place to spend there money. From Washington on down money and greed drives the country.

From: HDE
27-Oct-22
@nmwapiti - correct

From: Snag
27-Oct-22
I thought the government was to serve the people not the other way around. Seems like they are grabbing our money from both ends. Getting it from our taxes and from additional fees. Eventually this will lead to destroying what has been built up. But such is the way of man.

27-Oct-22
There is a big demand for elk, no reason not to raise the fees.

From: Scoot
27-Oct-22
States offering preferential treatment to the rich and to outfitters are doing a damn good job of Fing the common man. Yet another step in the direction of slowly wiping out the heritage of hunting in our country.

From: JL
27-Oct-22
"I'm also curious when the RMEF is going to finally have some input here."

I've been asking that question on here for a long time....and I include other national sportsman orgs that IMO are not looking out for their members.....NRA, SCI, WU, MU, DU, B&C, P&Y....etc. Remember...we're all NR's somewhere. I do believe these orgs carry some weight with these states. If they collectively addressed this rapidly escalating price gouging of NR's...maybe one day all NR's will see some relief and prices come back down.

27-Oct-22
If you have a whole year to plan it is not that difficult to think of ways to raise the necessary funds. Can work harder, sacrifice elsewhere, or eliminate unnecessary habits. One does not have to be wealthy to afford an elk tag, just have to prioritize and budget.

From: JL
27-Oct-22
Here's another thought to chew on. I will go out on a limb here and speculate the larger volume of DIY NR's bring more money to a state's economy than the smaller volume of outfitted NR's in the same state. I suggest that because I believe there are more DIY NR's hunting in a state than outfitted NR's. Food, lodging and local transportation are usually included in the price of the outfitted hunts. Not so in NR DIY hunts.

My theory being......if a state prices out NR DIY folks, their local economies will suffer.

27-Oct-22
Resident hunters do not like non resident hunters and non resident landowners. It is the residents who vote, so politicians smooze them.

From: Snag
27-Oct-22
They just want us to keep sacrificing and sacrificing. A young family man trying to get his kids into hunting have a tough time sacrificing anymore than they already do. Lots of good people almost squeezed out. Shouldn’t be this hard. Why the need for more and more $$$? Me thinks the bureaucracy has grown fat and is still hungry. The way of big govt

From: Jaquomo
27-Oct-22
Snag, maybe $$$ for sought-after out of state hunts. But cost isn't an issue for anyone for resident hunting. In inflation-adjusted dollars, the price for hunting licenses in almost every state is unchanged since the 70s. So nobody is being priced-out of hunting.

Access is another story, and that's probably the biggest hurdle for hunter recruitment and retainment (after age 18). That's a huge problem for residents and nonresidents. Where I deer hunt in eastern CO it used to be a door-knock thing for permission not long ago. Local kids hunted. Now, trespass fee vouchers sell for $6000, and the only kids who hunt are a few on family ranches that aren't leased to outfitters.

From: JL
27-Oct-22
Jaq....states that have a lot of public land (BLM/USFS/State) do not have an access problem.

IMO...Snag is hitting the nail on the head. If a person wanted to take himself, the wife and/or their son/daughter on a NR hunt....they would incur a serious financial hit. MT's NR BG combo is a $1000+. Times two is $2K+, three is $3K+. And that is assuming they all draw together.

From: midwest
27-Oct-22
Agree with Lou 100%. Lack of access is the biggest hurdle for young hunter recruitment.

From: Jaquomo
27-Oct-22
I live in one of the public land states. There is a huge difference between access to public land and access to public land with any sort of quality hunting, or any animals at all, when they are concentrated on the big private ranches. That's the dilemma here, and it is a regular topic of discussion within the CPW. They try all sorts of tricks to distribute animals, but nothing works very well.

As far as cost, there are deals to be had if someone isn't dead set on a big bull.

From: JL
27-Oct-22
I got back to the house from Montana at 0600 this morning after driving all night. Capt Obvious thought....the trick is to hunt away from the towns and campgrounds and don't be afraid to hike in on these public lands. I would agree some close in public land gets beat hard and critters are scarce or non-existent. I didn't have a tag but I was seeing shoot-able antelope bucks on public land everyday....and the season has been going on for a while. I had muley B tags and was seeing public land deer but couldn't get them to cooperate. They were there....but that's hunting. It was tag soup for me hunting after 4 days. It was another fun time though.

I was talking to some local res hunters about access a couple of days ago. One of them was complaining the outfitters that lease up the private ranches in that area are hurting that side of the access opportunity.

From: ultimag
01-Nov-22
stand the RMEF is an elk habitat conservation outfit Wyoming raiseing /tag prices has nothing to do with their charter or it's mission the fact is Wyoming could raise the price to 5k and the tags will still sell out supply and demand there is an extremely high demand for elk & pronghorn hunting in the west Wyoming has the supply ,, Wyoming has the best hunting for both species of any state in the west they. capitolism at its finest

From: nmwapiti
01-Nov-22
Not disagreeing with your statement, Ulti, but I still say that's the wrong approach for hunting. Just because you could raise the price to $10k doesn't mean it's fair to most of the hunting population. The goal is not to raise as much money as possible. This isn't a for profit business. The goal is to manage wildlife for the public. If the wildlife belong to the public, then the fees should be set as low as possible at whatever price point is necessary for management and no higher. Drawings, bonus points and such are how you handle demand.

From: Snag
01-Nov-22
Exactly nmwapiti.

From: Inshart
02-Nov-22
nmwapiti - "The goal is not to raise as much money as possible. " Well, IMHO,,, unfortunately that is NOT how the government money mongers view it. I truly believe it IS ALL about the money. They could care less about us NR, blue collar hunters. Again JMHO, Bob

From: DonVathome
02-Nov-22
PLEASE do not follow the logic of in line with the other states. Tag prices have gone up very disproportionately the past decade. Wyoming set the tone and everyone else caught on.

This literally is the exact same thing as if everyone else jumped off a bridge......

Remember when Wyoming increased non-resident sheep preference Point fees from $7 to $100 overnight? The number of applicants got cut in half So their profits increased sevenfold period Seven times the profits for half the work period it was easy to see the writing on the wall after that and Wyoming did and the other states quickly followed.

From: Scoot
02-Nov-22
"unfortunately that is NOT how the government money mongers view it. I truly believe it IS ALL about the money. They could care less about us NR, blue collar hunters. Again JMHO, Bob"

For the record, Bob, that HO (humble opinion) isn't just your opinion-- that one is shared by many of us here and in the hunting community in general!

From: thedude
02-Nov-22
Anyone in support of the change in the special tag price and allocation must really enjoy providing outfitter welfare. They also support a loss in AccessYes private lands when the outfitters can write bigger lease checks.

Wyoming has the one of the best systems for tags currently. No need to change anything outside of the CPI rates.

From: elkmtngear
02-Nov-22
"This is supposedly to "bring the price more in line with other states"".

Huh? What other State charges 2 Grand for an elk tag? Anybody???

The whole "Special Draw" B.S., is all about generating maximum revenue anyway, throwing out a half a preference point as a "carrot" :^/

From: grossklw
02-Nov-22
I think NMwapiti summed it up perfectly. Selfishly this would be good for me in terms of # of tags as I'll just pay the new price...but I think this would be bad for hunting and our community as a whole.

Why should John Doe factory worker give a crap about a conservation effort or more access if the state gives him the middle finger on tag price, I think that concerns me more than anything is average Joe's quit caring about conservation issues since they won't get to experience it anyway. I don't want it to become a rich man's sport. I get the supply and demand and capitalism deal; I just don't think it should be applied to state run hunting agencies.

From: pav
02-Nov-22
thedude - "Anyone in support of the change in the special tag price and allocation must really enjoy providing outfitter welfare."

I saw the potential fee increase, but is there also an outfitter allocation for NR's included with the rate hike? If so, I missed that part...

From: Bowfreak
02-Nov-22
wapitibob called it a de facto outfitter pool. Outfitters think that those willing to pay $2K for a tag would be disproportionately made up of those that plan to use a guide.

The issue with raising this price so high is that there are still way more people wanting tags than available tags and I am betting it's positive impact on point creep in the special would be negligible.

From: Bigdog 21
02-Nov-22
Wow glade I hunted wy. and Co. in the 80s. use to go every year . No guide needed no fees. Didn't cost a thousand for the hole trip ,gas cabin. And Food ,tag.

From: pav
02-Nov-22
Thanks fot the explanation Bowfreak. Makes sense. I thought the NR outfitter allocation proposal bit the dust. The post I copied had me confused.

From: pav
02-Nov-22
I agree the price increase will have a neglible affect on point creep. I typically apply special draw and this increase won't change that.

From: nmwapiti
03-Nov-22
Here's a similar line of thinking you better hope the Commission doesn't think of: I hear a lot of complaining from southern WY residents about CO folks coming across the border to fish WY lakes and streams. WY could raise nonresident fishing license costs to $500, $1k or whatever it took to price out most CO residents. Demand problem solved, money made. That's the obvious end-state with "market based" pricing.

From: wytex
03-Nov-22
^^^^ I like this idea. Fishing is a bargain in Wyoming for NRs.

I really hope if this passes, increase in NR elk tags that most opt to go DIY since the tag is so expensive, outfitters will be crying.

Missouri breaks Resident hunters actually do like NR hunters for the most part, don't generalize us like that please. Yes, we have a certain set of the population that doesn't but not the majority for sure. Look at the comments sent in your NR behalf for the WTF on some issues.

From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-22
Nmwapiti, as a lifelong resident of N. CO (I live about 8 miles from the WY border now) I agree that ever since the Denver newspapers started publicizing S. WY fishing back in the late 70s, greenies have screwed it up royally. But the fly fishing outfitting businesses and tourism councils that heavily promote it haven't helped either.

How about this tradeoff? WY raises NR fishing prices. CO places a 10% surcharge on all the goods, and a 20% surcharge on the weed the WY people caravan down to buy in Fort Collins. Our massive supply of beautiful single outdoorsy women would be declared off-limits to anyone with a WY drivers license.

Highway 287 between Laramie and Fort Collins is now one of the deadliest stretches of highway in the country. I-25 south from Cheyenne to the Fort can be like driving through Denver. A surcharge might keep some of the invading hordes on the north side of the boundary (they can always shop at the Dollar Tree and keep their money local in WY), and would undoubtedly save lives. Win-win! :-)

Even better, don't allow any NRs to enter a pot store unless accompanied by a CO resident. We could establish a whole new sideline occupation as a "Pot Guide" service.

From: nmwapiti
03-Nov-22
LMAO Jaq! Let's just start a commerce war between states. Hunting and fishing vs hippies and pot smoking.

Wytex, I only generalize if seems accurate. I've been hunting the breaks on and off since about 2000. Haven't met a resident yet that like all the NRs running around. But, I mostly blame that on the FWP for letting too many people in a unit. Those cash cows are the cause of problems in every state.

From: Deertick
03-Nov-22
Lou, will you be my pot guide? We can reciprocate on the wilderness thing if you want.

From: nmwapiti
03-Nov-22
It's just an ugly trend. It ends with only rich guys being able to hunt out of state. CO otc elk tags for $5k. MT breaks tags for $10k. NM draw tags the same price as landowner tags ($20k for the Gila). I don't think that's the way the system was supposed work. Sounds like Europe to me. Thought we left that rat hole so we could run things differently.

From: DonVathome
03-Nov-22
I also think this will not affect point creep. Look at point creep the past 10 years. Now look at tag price and app price increases the past 10 years. Point creep has been bad and fees/tag prices went up a lot during that time. I really wish their was something NR could do but there is not. WY makes more and more money of NR each year. Period. Many did get frustrated and drop out. They made more money anyway.

We need resident help, other then that we have to bend over and take it.

From: nmwapiti
03-Nov-22
Since we're walking this dog, why not crank up the price on the big 5? How about $500k for a bighorn? NM could charge $100k for ibex. Someone would pay it.

From: Jeff Holchin
03-Nov-22
Saw this coming and burned up my points this year. Glad I did.

From: ultimag
03-Nov-22
mnwapiti they are upping the pricing for the big 5 to 5k . thats already in the works go to the hunt talk Wyoming forums there is a discussion about this very subject

From: nmwapiti
03-Nov-22
Yeah. I know about the 5k. What price would it be if they tried to see how much someone would pay? That's the path they're headed down. Let's keep raising the price until people stop paying.

From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-22
Nmwapiti, I studied resource management in college, and determining the willingness to pay threshold for use of any resource is a continuous balancing act. They also have to balance public perception (by their resident constituents) and political pressures from different commercial factions. I got out of Parks and Wildlife early when I saw how it worked.

From: ultimag
04-Nov-22
jaq, that's just it the price hikes are only bring passed in to non resident hunters NOT residents & it's Wyoming residents that are pushing it in 10 yrs if not sooner Wyoming will outlaw or do away with all non resident hunting

From: DonVathome
04-Nov-22
SO, according to several of you, if CO, NM, NV & MT also raise the big 5 tags to $5k, then Idaho should also raise them to $5k to "stay in line with other states" right?

From: Elkfreak
06-Nov-22
I love bowhunting Wyoming and have taken beautiful animals there, but if this proposal passes I will never put in for a Wyoming hunt again. For them to say the price increase puts it inline with other states in simply not true. I put in for Idaho, New Mexico and Arizona every year.

From: HDE
06-Nov-22
Price increase has absolutely nothing to do with "supply and demand". Doesn't matter if 1,000 people apply for 100 tags or 10,000. There are only 100 tags set by the dynamics of the unit and animal population. It has absolutely nothing to do with Capitalism either. Certainly, nobody is going to tax the government for the money it generates from the citizenry and the government will keep all of its generated revenue to be allocated where necessary.

A price increase to match the increase (inflation) everywhere else is another thing. Extravagant increases are just plain greed, aka, "price gouging"...

From: sticksender
06-Nov-22
ultimag can you post a link? Very interested, but I see no active threads on the "5k" topic you cited.

https://www.hunttalk.com/forums/wyoming.471/

From: Jaquomo
06-Nov-22
"Extravagant increases are just plain greed, aka, "price gouging"..."

Yeah, ok, so what? I'm sure the WFGD is terribly concerned that a few nonresident malcontents on hunting forums are upset about that. Meanwhile, on another planet, "I don't want that pay raise because it might make me seem "greedy"? Said no one, ever.

And another gem from our new crackpot, ultimag......of course price hikes are passed on disproportionally to nonresidents. Hello? Always have, in every state, always will. And no, in 10 years WY won't be resident-only. That's just stupid. Nonresidents keep resident hunting fees low. Nonresidents keep WYOGA in business. Nonresidents bring money into little towns. But expect WY and every state to continue to test the willingness-to-pay threshold for nonresidents. That's just good business.

From: nmwapiti
06-Nov-22
Agree with you there, Lou. I don't see NR tags going away. They're too valuable to the state. It could quickly become a game that only the rich can afford to play though. At least for big bulls. They'll toss out some cheap cow tags for us little people.

From: thedude
06-Nov-22
If the welfare queens at wyoga get their way, residents and NRs will both be losing access. Who would have thought wagonhound and other large ranches need government welfare

From: Jaquomo
06-Nov-22
Outfitted hunts may become a game for the rich someday, but DIY hunting on a NR license is just a matter of prioritizing where our money is spent. A day of skiing for a family of four, including meals and lodging, is pretty close to $1000 now. $100 green fees are common. Tickets to see Springsteen are averaging $1181. Guys complaining about NR license fees are driving $60K trucks and shooting $2000 bows while wearing $200 Sitka underwear.

I'm sure somebody will jump in here with the same old "I drive a 10 year old truck and don't ski or golf, and I hunt in 40 year old Woodland camo, and I still can't afford to hunt in WY". That's true. Not everyone has disposable income to justify nonresident elk hunting. So maybe those folks should stay home and hunt 10 deer for four months on their $35 resident license, and put a couple dollars a day into a jar to afford a WY hunt when they finally get enough PPs to draw a general tag.

From: HDE
06-Nov-22
"Yeah, ok, so what? I'm sure the WFGD is terribly concerned that a few nonresident malcontents on hunting forums are upset about that. Meanwhile, on another planet, "I don't want that pay raise because it might make me seem "greedy"? Said no one, ever."

Not the same thing. Not even a little. Not even on the same "planet", but whatever...

From: nmwapiti
06-Nov-22
Lou, I'm not that poor and I'm getting worried about being able to afford it. The way point creep is going I may only have to worry about it every 10 years, though. I also live in Utah so there ain't no shootin 10 deer on a $35 license. Gettin tough for the average guy.

From: yooper89
06-Nov-22
JuSt MoVe iF iTs ThAt ImPoRtAnT

From: WapitiBob
06-Nov-22
"ultimag can you post a link? Very interested, but I see no active threads on the "5k" topic you cited."

Sen Hicks made an amendment to the special price legislation that would have raised the price on the big 5. It failed along with an amendment to raise all nr license fees. Both may be introduced as legislation by Hicks for the 2023 session but without task force approval they won't carry the same weight.

The amendment was to raise sheep to $3,000, Moose to $2,750, Goat to $2,750, Bison to $6,000, and G Bear to $7,500

From: nmwapiti
06-Nov-22
Yooper, I'd love to move to MT or WY. My wife hates snow though. If I can afford it some day I'll get a second house and change my residence. Definitely wasn't part of the equation when I did my retirement planning years ago.

From: yooper89
06-Nov-22
NM - total sarcasm. Can't stand when people reply with that sort of comment because for most of us it's completely unrealistic.

From: HDE
06-Nov-22
...and for most people it's simply unrealistic to just pick up and move...

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