Fossil Fuel Reparations
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
sundowner 21-Nov-22
sundowner 21-Nov-22
Missouribreaks 21-Nov-22
Woods Walker 21-Nov-22
Snuffer 21-Nov-22
HDE 21-Nov-22
Bigdog 21 21-Nov-22
sundowner 21-Nov-22
azelkhntr 21-Nov-22
ILbowhntr 22-Nov-22
fuzzy 22-Nov-22
Norseman 22-Nov-22
BC173 22-Nov-22
Charlie Rehor 22-Nov-22
Brotsky 22-Nov-22
70lbDraw 22-Nov-22
12yards 22-Nov-22
Knifeman 22-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
bigswivle 22-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 22-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 22-Nov-22
HDE 22-Nov-22
ahunter76 22-Nov-22
Treeline 22-Nov-22
DanaC 22-Nov-22
Bowaddict 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
Rocky D 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
APauls 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
Rocky D 22-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 22-Nov-22
Mad Trapper 22-Nov-22
t-roy 22-Nov-22
Matt 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
bigswivle 22-Nov-22
HDE 22-Nov-22
Beendare 22-Nov-22
12yards 22-Nov-22
Beendare 22-Nov-22
bigeasygator 22-Nov-22
Matt 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
HDE 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
[email protected] 22-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 22-Nov-22
Bake 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
butcherboy 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
[email protected] 22-Nov-22
Matt 22-Nov-22
12yards 22-Nov-22
Matt 22-Nov-22
Beendare 22-Nov-22
Beendare 22-Nov-22
70lbDraw 22-Nov-22
Beendare 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
Rocky D 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
HDE 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
HDE 22-Nov-22
fuzzy 22-Nov-22
elkmtngear 22-Nov-22
Rocky D 22-Nov-22
Patdel 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
WhattheFOC 22-Nov-22
peterk1234 22-Nov-22
Patdel 22-Nov-22
KSflatlander 22-Nov-22
Tjm1534 22-Nov-22
Beendare 23-Nov-22
KSflatlander 23-Nov-22
KSflatlander 23-Nov-22
12yards 23-Nov-22
sundowner 23-Nov-22
Bigdog 21 23-Nov-22
fuzzy 24-Nov-22
KSflatlander 24-Nov-22
KSflatlander 24-Nov-22
fuzzy 24-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 24-Nov-22
Thornton 24-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 24-Nov-22
bowhunt 24-Nov-22
Grey Ghost 24-Nov-22
70lbDraw 24-Nov-22
Mike Ukrainetz 24-Nov-22
Matt 24-Nov-22
70lbDraw 25-Nov-22
KSflatlander 25-Nov-22
Thornton 25-Nov-22
2Wild Bill 25-Nov-22
Beendare 25-Nov-22
KSflatlander 25-Nov-22
Matt 26-Nov-22
WV Mountaineer 26-Nov-22
DanaC 26-Nov-22
Grey Ghost 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
fuzzy 26-Nov-22
Bowbender 26-Nov-22
2Wild Bill 26-Nov-22
Bowbender 26-Nov-22
Stix 26-Nov-22
Bowbender 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
2Wild Bill 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
Bowbender 26-Nov-22
Beendare 26-Nov-22
KSflatlander 26-Nov-22
Ambush 26-Nov-22
Matt 26-Nov-22
Ambush 26-Nov-22
DL 26-Nov-22
DL 27-Nov-22
Bou'bound 28-Nov-22
From: sundowner
21-Nov-22
Joe Biden has pledged $1,000,000,000 U.S. taxpayer dollars to a fund to be distributed to "poorer countries" as reparations for our use of fossil fuels. Moreover, China, one of the world's worst polluters, will not be contributing to the fund due to it's "Developing Nation" status.

This may seem impossible, it can't be true......no US President would do this. He did it.

Hopefully the Republican-controlled House will withhold this payment, as they will control funding beginning in January.

From: sundowner
21-Nov-22
The blithering idiot also pledged $11.4 billion of your taxpayer money to " help poor countries move away from fossil fuels and to develop wind, solar, and other forms of renewable energy ".

This, while American families are struggling to buy everyday necessities and purchase fuel to get to work. I hope we survive this man's insanity.

21-Nov-22
Crazy people.

From: Woods Walker
21-Nov-22
Let's Go Brandon!

From: Snuffer
21-Nov-22
That's because joe is an idiot.

From: HDE
21-Nov-22
Be cool if everyone could walk away from their jobs for a couple months. No pay, no taxes, no gov't funding...

And joe biden is a damn fool idiot.

From: Bigdog 21
21-Nov-22
He did pardon the turkey today. Wonder if while he was petting it if he snift it neck. :)

From: sundowner
21-Nov-22
What? No bowlibs here to defend their decrepit, demented anti-American hero?

From: azelkhntr
21-Nov-22
Only $1 billion? Why not. The dollar is worthless at this point anyway.

From: ILbowhntr
22-Nov-22
The printing presses used to make money are working 24/7.

From: fuzzy
22-Nov-22
Lol....why not? We are paying "reparations" for everything else.

22-Nov-22
That money will go to a corrupt government of course not the citizens of that “damaged” nation.

At which point the corrupt officials kick back a little to the slime-balls in DC. It’s the game they have been playing for decades. Just a new excuse and cover to initiate the cash transfer.

From: Norseman
22-Nov-22
That should help fight inflation…

From: BC173
22-Nov-22
His stupidity is overwhelming!

22-Nov-22
59 years ago today President Kennedy was shot. The years sure fly by.

From: Brotsky
22-Nov-22
Still awaiting my reparations for how the Irish were treated in Blazing Saddles.

From: 70lbDraw
22-Nov-22
We don’t have enough wars going on right now to satisfy the defense industry kickbacks and political favors. What better replacement is there for extorting money from working class Americans than climate change?

“His stupidity is overwhelming!”

It’s overwhelming stupidity ‘by design’.

From: 12yards
22-Nov-22
I will enjoy seeing how they separate what disasters were caused by man-made vs. natural climate change and divvy up the money.

From: Knifeman
22-Nov-22
The koolaide drinkers on gorbal hockey really believe this crap, so the money means nothing if they believe the planet is at risk. I actually saw someone argue on the leatherwall that the more windy days bowhunting were a result of climate change. and he is supposedly an educated liberal. No really. You cant make this shit up.

22-Nov-22
We shouldn’t even call it “renewable” energy or “green energy.” Windmills, solar panels and bio mass burning is all incredibly destructive to the planet. Much more destructive than fossil fuel use, burning coal is better than these ridiculous, useless forms of energy production. Throw in electric vehicles and you have the biggest scam in history being perpetrated on the Western World.

Like everyone says here, it’s just a new money laundering program!

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
“ Windmills, solar panels and bio mass burning is all incredibly destructive to the planet. Much more destructive than fossil fuel use, burning coal is better than these ridiculous, useless forms of energy production.”

Excluding biomass, do you have any credible proof of this claim?

From: bigswivle
22-Nov-22
Why we don’t build state of the art nuclear facilities is just crazy.

22-Nov-22

Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
That’s 25-50% of the planet covered in solar panels and windmills!
Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
That’s 25-50% of the planet covered in solar panels and windmills!
Haha, I knew one of the indoctrinated liberals/paid political operatives would come out of the woodwork! Welcome to the thread KSflatlander!

You can read all about the destructive nature of solar panels and windmills by environmentalist Michael Shellenberger from California. They are intermittent power, they have a massive footprint on the landscape, hundreds of times larger than fossil fuel production, they have a short useful life, the parts can’t be recycled, their total fossil fuel generation doesn’t get accounted for, the rare earth minerals that the batteries need are incredibly destructive to mine, the list goes on and on…

You should educate yourself. Read his book and then get back to the thread. Thanks!

22-Nov-22
Bigswivle, you are 100% correct. If we were serious about reducing carbon emissions then we would be promoting nuclear use, instead Western Liberal leaders are trying to shut it down.

Shellenberger goes into nuclear extensively in his book. You can also find him on Twitter and Instagram if you want the summarized versions of his extensive, scientific research.

From: HDE
22-Nov-22
"Excluding biomass, do you have any credible proof of this claim?"

What's the footprint of a solar field to produce 1 MW?

From: ahunter76
22-Nov-22
Charlie Rehor-I passed through Dallas on the 21st. 5 years in the Navy & discharged headed home. He was shot there the next day. I was hitch hiking & some where S of Peoria, Ill a Greyhound bus driver stopped & picked me up (free ride) Asked if I had heard about the President & I replied no. He told me. One of the saddest days of my life.

From: Treeline
22-Nov-22
I need to get that book…

The total environmental cost of all of these “green initiatives” is far and beyond that of hydrocarbon based fuels. Nuclear power is by far and away the lowest environmental cost per unit of power produced.

The “green” movement has never done anything to improve anything or anyone other that a select few who have leveraged it to line their pockets.

Yet another spewing of diarrhea from “Let’s GO Brandon!” and the leftists that will further grow the yoke of slavery upon the American citizens.

From: DanaC
22-Nov-22

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
Solar is Big business. This is an aerial shot of some clearing a few miles from here, future solar site. I could post picture after picture of the existing 'farms' in this area, hundreds of acres worth.

From: Bowaddict
22-Nov-22
^solar is just as bad. Could show you a few places where pronghorn used to be, now it’s acres of solar panels. Another where I used to see guys goose hunting in crop fields, now solar panels. They take up a huge footprint!!

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
I’ve read the book. It is flawed fundamentally because Shellenberger does like most of you Trumpers do with science. He establishes a position then seeks the data to back up his claims. This is pseudoscience. He also uses a lot of anecdotal data which is also pseudoscience.

Shellenberger claims we can continue growing economically without environmental negative costs. That’s his fundamental premise. This is absolutely laughable because there’s a cost to everything.

I do agree with Shellenberger that we should use more nuclear power.

“They are intermittent power”

Absolutely true and it’s a problem. However, just because they are intermittent doesn’t mean they are useless. There is a race right now to find viable storage for renewables. You solve that problem then you can call Musk a pauper. But until then renewables will need traditional power sources to overcome intermittent issues.

“they have a massive footprint on the landscape, hundreds of times larger than fossil fuel production”

This is not true. Wind projects only take 1-2% of the land use of the minimum convex polygon of all turbines. That’s why farmers and ranchers sign the lease agreements. They can get paid for power and still farm or ranch 99% of the property. I’ve done the loss of land use analysis myself using GIS. Solar has more impact but it’s not 100%. Part of our business is ecorestoration of solar projects. Often, solar projects are placed in low ecological value land and it is restored and improved to function as pollinator habitat. But of course all forms of energy have ecological costs. The ecological cost of renewables vs fossil fuels is very different especially when to take into account the results of climate change on ecology. Fossil fuels don’t win here and that’s part of the reason that the cost per electron is becoming cheaper for renewables…without the tax credits.

“they have a short useful life, the parts can’t be recycled”

Yes, they have a shorter lifespan than traditional sources or nuclear but that is not all bad. The efficiency technology is changing rapidly so being able to upgrade can be a good thing. They are absolutely recycling a lot of things on the renewable sector. By law they can’t throw away storage batteries. The hydraulic fluid is recycled. Rare earth metals are recycled. You’re probably referring to fiberglass turbine blades but there are some startups that now recycle them. This is American exceptionalism.

“their total fossil fuel generation doesn’t get accounted for”

I’m not sure here because you’re being so general. Both fossil fuel and renewable energy take electricity and raw materials to build. Any study that compares the difference should either include manufacturing energy costs for both or not at all. If you have scientific data that says it cost more then I’d like to see it. Don’t forget to account for all the costs and waste in shipping fuels in the fossil fuel energy sector during operations. Wind and solar have ZERO costs to ship fuel during operations.

“the rare earth minerals that the batteries need are incredibly destructive to mine”

You are correct that this is a big problem. However, how much destruction occurs from mining coal or drilling for oil? What about oil spills?

Like it or not the transition from carbon based energy to alternatives that are more renewable has the momentum and there’s no way your going to stop it no matter how much you whine, cry, and stomp your feet. It’s cheaper and better for the environment in the long run and there is a public demand for it. That’s not to say that renewables don’t have impacts because they do but they are less than fossil fuels. But until they figure out the storage issue we will need either fossil fuels or nuclear to supplement for the intermittent issue.

From: Rocky D
22-Nov-22
“ “This is not true. Wind projects only take 1-2% of the land use of the minimum convex polygon of all turbines.”

KS, why you just draw circle to determine the footprint?

This method is used to minimize the footprint and not to provide the overall impact of the footprint!

Let’s get out of the pseudo science and show wind farms for what they really are!

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
Rocky- how else do you come up with a percent? The total acres of permanent impact has to be divided by something. This is done by the minimum convex polygon for the turbines (aka the power plant). The method has nothing to do with minimization and everything to do with a standard of comparison.

From: APauls
22-Nov-22
I am a very conservative thinker and voter. Just getting that right out there up front. But I do attach every argument with an open mind and I do just want to make an observation here.

In GENERAL I have found our resident liberals that everyone loves to hate on to be fairly well spoken. Generally substantiating their arguments with data and logical conclusions of such. They get attacked here pretty hard, insulted etc, and don't seem to jump into the pit as readily. I am happy that they continue to post and argue the other side of the fence even if I do not agree with them. For every argument it is key to have both sides so that you do not fall into "groupthink." There are many hardcore conservatives here that fall into the same category which is great. Then there is of course the name callers that turn a lot of things ugly.

I just wanted to point out that as much as you may disagree we are lucky to have people from both sides of the argument here that can share their view of the world. There is no use in running people out because their views are different. We should always be thankful for that opportunity to talk to all sides. FWIW. This thread so far has been a much healthier debate than many. Great to see.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
APauls post makes me nervous like there a rope-a-dope or a catch here;)

I couldn’t agree more with APauls. Diversity is the spice of life. I come here because #1- bowhunting has been my passion since I was 5 years old. It has shaped everything about me (values, career, religion, relationships). Second on the political stuff…I like hearing different perspectives. It’s a good check on my own bias and bubble. However, I can’t stand when people post hyperbole like it was fact or post BS stuff (that doesn’t even pass the sniff test) they heard from somebody somewhere as fact while never checking it out for themselves.

From: Rocky D
22-Nov-22
KS, using the same algorithm to determine the size of my subdivision you would only measure where the houses are located and not the yards that go with them!

Seems like fuzzy math to this dumb country boy or like calling critical race theory history.

22-Nov-22
KSflatlander, what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I’ll trust Time Magazine’s Environmentalist of the year Michael Shellenberger long before you, you’re just another radical leftist trying to cancel him because he is no longer spewing the correct mainstream narrative.

I’ll give you a real world example, Europe, they have tried to do the renewable energy transition and now they are desperately increasing coal burning and burning trees for fuel. And then leftists say the problem is that they didn’t do enough transition, early enough, complete bull.

Another real world example is in oil and gas rich Alberta they are putting up hundreds and hundreds of windmills yet they still contribute a fraction of the power we need. They’ll need hundreds of thousands of them, all government subsidized, all Made in China. Not to worry though, it’s all low ecological value land, what the heck is that, desert, prairie?! I notice they never surround cities with windmills where the power is needed, that would not be tolerated by the Liberal city dwellers.

“Renewables” and “Green transition” are leftist lies without most of the energy coming from nuclear. The rare earth mineral demand alone for batteries is a physical impossibility.

How much do you get paid for each post you do or are you just a contract, leftist worker? Uh, oh here comes bigeasygator and grey ghost…

From: Mad Trapper
22-Nov-22
Man, that gentleman from Kansas is really smart. He is not only an expert on constitutional law, he is an expert on the climate. I am sure that he is also an expert on other issues as well. We are soo lucky that we have him here!

From: t-roy
22-Nov-22
You mean ksflatliner (aka Ryan Hrabe)?

From: Matt
22-Nov-22

Matt's Link
APauls x2

"I’ll give you a real world example, Europe, they have tried to do the renewable energy transition and now they are desperately increasing coal burning and burning trees for fuel. And then leftists say the problem is that they didn’t do enough transition, early enough, complete bull."

You somehow forgot to mention the bulk of that is being driven by the war in Ukraine (temporary and un-anticipatable) resulting in massive cuts in fossil fuels deliveries from Russia. More simply put, burning coal and trees isn't an alternative to renewables, it is an alternative to fossil fuels.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
Rocky- if the subdivision is built in agriculture do they still plant corn in the yard after the houses are built. We are talking about land use conversion and it’s obvious you don’t get it. If it’s agricultural before the wind turbine is built they still plant corn within 15 ft of the base. I factored in this offset in my calculations on the percent land conversion..

For land conversion, Wind has a very low impact compared to fossil fuels.

Keep digging t-roy

From: bigswivle
22-Nov-22
Solar fields have gotten a lot of my friends wealthy the last couple years(land deals)lol. The world can’t run on solar, great idea but technology isn’t there.

From: HDE
22-Nov-22
"^solar is just as bad. Could show you a few places where pronghorn used to be, now it’s acres of solar panels. Another where I used to see guys goose hunting in crop fields, now solar panels. They take up a huge footprint!!"

I know the answer to my question. I want to see if KSflat is willing to answer since solar clearly is not a viable replacement....

From: Beendare
22-Nov-22

Nobody does the math.

Why have the wind farms Failed? Large wind farm in Hawaii in one of the windiest places on earth- mothballed. The Altamont wind farms near me have gone bankrupt twice. Wind is a pipe dream, only viable with gov supported supplements.

From: 12yards
22-Nov-22
Climate science is virtually the poster child of Pseudoscience.

From: Beendare
22-Nov-22
And now we see whats in the joke of a “Inflation Reduction act”

The Dems added nat gas fuel taxes estimated to raise over $6Billion.

These input costs just get passed on to us- the consumers. Its a stealth tax that will actually INCREASE inflation…and hit the lower income folks the hardest.

I’m sorry…..but Dem voters are just not that smart. They don’t realize they are getting hosed by these Democrat politicians. The berate these big corporations…when all they are doing is passing on input costs from these politicians talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Just One more example of Democrats doing what they do; Tax and Spend.

.

From: bigeasygator
22-Nov-22
I’ll give you a real world example, Europe, they have tried to do the renewable energy transition and now they are desperately increasing coal burning and burning trees for fuel. And then leftists say the problem is that they didn’t do enough transition, early enough, complete bull.

The logic isn't entirely unsound...however, there just aren't readily available "alternatives." The long term goal should be to transition towards a net zero emissions energy world. But the people wanting to transition away from fossil fuels need to put realistic expectations on the timelines to get us there and not ignore the economic realities of moving too fast. Sacrificing energy security for the energy transition is not the answer.

I will say this as well. It's a wild time to work in the oil patch. The complexities of the current situation - balancing security and transition against the backdrop of a strong price environment and the geopolitical climate of today is unlike anything I've seen in my 20 year career.

From: Matt
22-Nov-22
BEG x2

'And now we see whats in the joke of a “Inflation Reduction act'”'

I still can't believe there was not more public criticism given the disconnect between the bill's name and what the bill actually includes. To your point, it has mechanisms that will actually increase inflation.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
BEG X3

“Large wind farm in Hawaii in one of the windiest places on earth- mothballed.“

Hawaii currently gets about 7% of its energy from renewable (all time high). Which wind farm are you referring to? There are multiple wind farms in Hawaii. Hawaii may have good wind resource but they are lacking in terrestrial space to build. Turbines need space as the turbulence from one turbine can severely decrease the efficiency of the neighboring turbine. Mountains can have the same effect. I’m guessing leasing land I Hawaii is more expensive than the mainland so renewables may have a tough time competing. I believe there are several offshore wind projects in development to help with the turbine spacing.

“The Altamont wind farms near me have gone bankrupt twice. Wind is a pipe dream, only viable with gov supported supplements.”

Altamont Pass was one of the first wind farms in the U.S. just like the early automobile industry, many companies tried it and failed. That is a natural progression of emerging technologies. Do you have a credible link to the bankruptcies? Altamont Pass is currently being repowered with better, more reliable and efficient turbines. Why is that? FYI other forms of U.S. energy also have “supplements” but emerging technologies can’t? You can say wind is not viable all you want but the market contradicts you. The proof is in the pudding.

You act like all wind farms have failed when in reality they are producing more electrons then ever?

Beendare- I swear most of the stuff you post you just make up.

HDE- questions end with a question mark.

From: HDE
22-Nov-22
^^^ and?

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
There isn’t a single question mark in your post.

22-Nov-22
If we want help poorer countries, we should send them a billion dollars worth of petroleum instead of cash. Harnessing fossil fuels for energy and products is the biggest technical benefit ever to bless humanity.

22-Nov-22
I forgot about Matt Burke from California, another member of the Indoctrinated Liberal Dream Team. Paid operatives on Bowsite. They never stray far from the mainstream narrative.

From: Bake
22-Nov-22
KS says "This is not true. Wind projects only take 1-2% of the land use of the minimum convex polygon of all turbines."

Then KS says "Turbines need space as the turbulence from one turbine can severely decrease the efficiency of the neighboring turbine. "

Which is it? They don't take up much room? Or they need lots of room?

I understand why farmers and ranchers sign the leases. . . money is king. But I HATE to see those damn wind farms out west. They are a blight on the landscape. I love those open prairie landscapes and the wind farms ruin it. The only reason no one brings that up is because they're in places where the liberals don't want to live. But I hate them.

If the city voters want wind, they should make the windfarms there where they have to deal with them. Put them up blocking their views of city skylines. See how they like them when they have to see them and live near them.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
“Which is it? They don't take up much room? Or they need lots of room?“

Lol. One is in reference to land conversion and the other is to wind turbulence relating to turbine efficiencies. So it’s both and I stand behind what I said. You must be confused.

Congrats on the nice buck this year Bake!

From: butcherboy
22-Nov-22
What's the footprint of a solar field to produce 1 MW?

That was from HDE’s first post. I don’t know about you but I see a question mark there. Lol

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
“What's the footprint of a solar field to produce 1 MW?“

That will vary on the solar panel used, the spacing of the panels, the solar resources, etc which is variable. 5-10 acres in the Great Plains based on my experience.

How many homes does 1 MW power?

22-Nov-22
Those giant wind turbine blades should be also be solar panels...crap, I should have called my buddy Elon before saying that out loud.

From: Matt
22-Nov-22
"I forgot about Matt Burke from California, another member of the Indoctrinated Liberal Dream Team. Paid operatives on Bowsite. They never stray far from the mainstream narrative."

Registered republican since I became of age to vote who tries to never stray too far from the facts or common sense. You should try it.

From: 12yards
22-Nov-22
BEG Says: "But the people wanting to transition away from fossil fuels need to put realistic expectations on the timelines to get us there and not ignore the economic realities of moving too fast."

Thank you! If the left can't come to grips with this, it will fail. If they can't, well, they just want your lifestyle to significantly change to a much more "stay at home, do nothing, and be happy" type situation.

From: Matt
22-Nov-22
"If the city voters want wind, they should make the windfarms there where they have to deal with them. Put them up blocking their views of city skylines. See how they like them when they have to see them and live near them."

I don't like them either (they are an eye sore and kill the heck out of raptors in my area), but wind farms are located very specifically based on a number of criteria (most specifically wind speed sufficiency). As a result, vast areas of this country (and likely most major metropolitan areas) are unsuitable for wind power developments.

From: Beendare
22-Nov-22
Made up, eh?

There are 6 derelict decommissioned wind farms in Hawaii- pick one......it doesn't take much to realize the 'Why' ........they aren't efficient or profitable. Not just Hawaii, but its estimated in this link there are 14,000 derelict turbines nationwide.

If the folks like KSflatlander involved in these renewable boondoggles could actually do the math...we wouldn't have all of these disastrous scars on the earth.

Heres a link to the Hawaii free press article, "Broken Promises; The rusting wind turbines of Hawaii" at hawaiifreepress.com

Excerpts from the article; Not to put too fine a point on it, for some wind energy investors it was simply a tax scam.

But as tends to happen with a business that is driven by financial incentives, it lasted only as long as the subsidies.

And just like the gold rush miners who had rushed to the same Californian passes a century earlier, the wind prospectors departed in such a hurry that they didn’t even bother to take down the turbines they had littered across the state.

With so many moving parts to worry about, maintaining turbines is expensive — too expensive when the electricity they could produce was suddenly worth so little.

‘So when something broke, you simply didn’t send a repairman because it just didn’t make financial sense,’ Hawaii wind sceptic Andrew Walden told me.

With some turbine makers going out of business, there were no spare parts either.

According to the California Energy Commission, the collapse in subsidies stalled the state’s huge wind energy industry for nearly two decades.

No one who has driven past one of America’s mega wind farms today can fail to be struck by how few have blades that are turning, even in strong winds. Wind power sceptics estimate 14,000 turbines across the U.S. have become derelict since the Eighties, while there are around 38,000 in operation across the country.

Paul Gipe claims the number abandoned in his state of California is around 4,500, of which 500 are still standing.

In Hawaii, which is soon to get a new subsidised wind farm, Andrew Walden argues that whatever turbine makers boast about their machines’ impressive kilowatt per hour output, there remains an intractable problem with any industry that can survive only with government help.

‘The key lesson from history is that when the subsidies go, the wind farms go,’ he told me. ‘It costs too much to maintain them and they just get abandoned.’

From: Beendare
22-Nov-22
Oh how I wish these renewable idiots would learn math.

Wind power is incredibly inefficient; A maximum of 59.3 percent of the wind’s kinetic energy can be converted, based on Betz’s law.

In reality, the average turbine operates at an efficiency rate of 20 to 30 percent....not to mention, it only works when the wind is blowing.

Thats what folks like KS Flat want us to rely on? We saw their theory in action last year in Texas....

From: 70lbDraw
22-Nov-22
“You act like all wind farms have failed when in reality they are producing more electrons then ever?”

If only there were a reliable long term storage solution for electricity?!

From: Beendare
22-Nov-22
And now we see whats in the joke of a “Inflation Reduction act”

The Dems added nat gas fuel taxes estimated to raise over $6Billion.

These input costs just get passed on to us- the consumers. Its a stealth tax that will actually INCREASE inflation…and hit the lower income folks the hardest.

I’m sorry…..but Dem voters are just not that smart. They don’t realize they are getting hosed by these Democrat politicians. The berate these big corporations…when all they are doing is passing on input costs from these politicians talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Just One more example of Democrats doing what they do; Tax and Spend.

.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
Beendare- Yes, you just skim stuff and fill in the blanks with made up sh#t. Sundowner does the same crap. Never stopping to actually research to see if what you are saying is true.

Hawaii free press is not free press at all. It’s not even news. Do you ever check your sources? Andrew Walden…do you know his background. Regardless…

“No one who has driven past one of America’s mega wind farms today can fail to be struck by how few have blades that are turning, even in strong winds. Wind power sceptics estimate 14,000 turbines across the U.S. have become derelict since the Eighties, while there are around 38,000 in operation across the country.”

This should be a clue to a critical mind. Anyone in the business knows that turbines build in the 80s are derelict because they have run out their lifespan. Blades don’t spin on some turbines for a reason. It not always that they are broken or “derelict.” There could be routine maintenance (like with absolutely all energy sources), transmission constraints, etc.

For anyone with first hand experience it is obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about. You regurgitate the icing but never actually bake a cake. It purposeful ignorance and that’s on you.

If you’re going to gobble up rags and not check sources then remain ignorant. That’s your problem.

Whine, cry, lie, make up stuff, stop your feet it doesn’t matter. The last couple of wind farms I worked on sold their electrons to private companies with a long term contract on the energy price. Try that with fossil fuels.

Beendare/sundowner- does the truth not matter to you? Doesn’t relaying misinformation or disinformation bother you at all? Were you not raised as I was to tell the truth? Bearing false witness? You’re not duped because you have tool in your hand to research the facts.

From: Rocky D
22-Nov-22
“ Rocky- if the subdivision is built in agriculture do they still plant corn in the yard after the houses are built. We are talking about land use conversion and it’s obvious you don’t get it.”

KS, I bet that you include all your acres when referring to your farm even though it is probably not all agricultural.

This is simply downsizing the objective reality!

This is classic “don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

Frankly, I don’t why they don’t cube it!

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
Rocky- I’m speechless on how dumb your comment is. Nobody is pissing down your back…it’s actually rain. You need to stop and think about what you are saying.

Please tell me how it should be calculated. Approximately what percent land conversion (so the landowner can’t use it for ranching or farming) occurs with a 300MW project with 2.5MWs per turbine? Assuming all acreage impacted is for farming or ranching. What percentage is not usable to the farmer after the wind plant is built?

Hi much space to you think a turbine base (60ft diameter) and gravel access road (12ft wide)takes up?

From: HDE
22-Nov-22
"There isn’t a single question mark in your post."

Questions also begin with who, what, when, where, how, will, which, etc. There is one of those in my post. The question mark does not make it a question. Doesn't surprise me that it went right over your head...

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
LMAO. I’m not arguing with you on question marks. You win.

From: HDE
22-Nov-22
^^^ damn straight I win. Post does have a question mark, and not added recently from an edit.

From: fuzzy
22-Nov-22
"Reparations A through G were taken so we call it 'reparation H'"

From: elkmtngear
22-Nov-22
Back to Obama's "Apology Tour" days...SMH!

Let's just guilt ourselves into Poverty...for no reason at all !!

From: Rocky D
22-Nov-22
“ You need to stop and think about what you are saying.”

KS, you forgot to tell us that Shellenberger was a huge advocate of wind and actually sold Obama on it but changed his opinion.

Again, we are just seeking the truth and do not proclaim be all knowing.

Bottom line is green is not getting us to energy independence and never will!

You talk about Trumpettes and all I see from you is the party line.

Where’s any objectivity?

That was a really nice buck you killed.

From: Patdel
22-Nov-22
Ksflatlander, i buy your argument about the wind turbines footprint allowing ag use of the same land they occupy. It works and ive seen it work.

You also say solar doesnt have 100% footprint. I disagree with that...the ones ive seen absolutely are using 100% of the former farms they occupy. I also cant figure out what is green about them. They look like hell. A farm in my old neighborhood is completey covered in them. Not even weeds grow there.

The city owns own that farm now, and i suspect its some kind of government boondoggle to get a kickback or grant for something else. Subsidies.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
“KS, you forgot to tell us that Shellenberger was a huge advocate of wind and actually sold Obama on it but changed his opinion.“

I didn’t know I was obligated to tell you that. It wasn’t my source or post. So what if he was? (The ? is just for you HDE).

“You also say solar doesnt have 100% footprint. I disagree with that...the ones ive seen absolutely are using 100% of the former farms they occupy.”

It is true that a solar farm takes agricultural out of production 100% if placed there. My point was when they put a solar farm in agriculture many companies plant back pollinator habitat. Companies like it because the pollinator habitat doesn’t require much maintenance once established. It’s good ecologically because you took a nonnative monoculture and converted it to native forbs which is good for many animals (insects, small mammals, birds, etc). The point was it’s not a paved parking lot and actually a net positive (somewhat) ecologically.

From: WhattheFOC
22-Nov-22
Anybody wanna see the buck I passed on today? Or too busy with solar panels?? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ????

From: peterk1234
22-Nov-22
WhattheFOC, do you know that hunting near solar panels can be really good? The panels blind them so you can shoot them from only ten yards!

From: Patdel
22-Nov-22
Ksflatlander...thats the problem. The 2 big solar farms ive seen with my own two eyes are gravel parking lots. There isnt any pollinater habitat or anything else growing there. They are just an eyesores. Theyre spraying the gravel with roundup a couple times a year

So when i hear people tell me different, its hard for me to put much faith in the rest of their staements.

From: KSflatlander
22-Nov-22
Yes, gravel is less maintenance too and I have seen that also. But I am also seeing a transition to pollinator habitat and natural resource agencies are requesting it more and more.

From: Tjm1534
22-Nov-22
Climate change. Yes you can make this bs up.Friggin idiots.

From: Beendare
23-Nov-22
Ks, You asked about wind farms that have been decommissioned…and then disregard the facts that there are many. My buddies have been running cattle in the Altamont for decades- that wind farm has been a joke from day one- only sustainable due to tax credits and gov supplements.

Admit it, You can’t do the math. And you are consulting renewable energy? Sheesh. Plus, there are so many unintended consequences that in the rush to these windmills folks like yourself missed.

You use the lib progressive strategy of disregarding the facts to just keep pushing your Climate policy. Windmill FACTS; 1) Are not efficient, 2) are a scar on the earth, 3) need a massive amount of maintenance, and 3) they need gov subsidies to be viable. Those are facts…that you casually disregard.

Then, has anyone actually considered what effect all of these windmills will have on changing the climate? Of course not…its just like the fact they failed to consider bird kills.

We need energy that is productive and can stand on its own- like the new gen nuclear. We keep wasting our time/money building windmills..,then tearing them down…all due to people like yourself that can’t do the math and have no critical thinking skills…..all while you rake money from this industry. Just like the oldest profession, eh?

From: KSflatlander
23-Nov-22

KSflatlander's Link
“1) Are not efficient“

They operate as intended and efficient as designed and they make ROI as expected.

“ 2) are a scar on the earth,”

All wind projects I’ve worked have a “return to original contours” clause in the leasing contract when the wind project has run its life. The decommissioning is also bonded.

“ 3) need a massive amount of maintenance”

Compared to what? To a coal, natural gas, or nuclear plant. Wind has a fraction of maintenance employees compared to other power plants based on per MW production.

“3) they need gov subsidies to be viable”

You sure about that.

“ Lazard’s most recent Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) analysis shows U.S. renewable energy prices continued falling fast in 2019, with wind and solar hitting new lows, after renewables fell below the cost of coal in 2018. LCOE measures the total cost of building and operating a facility over its lifetime, and shows renewables beating fossil fuels by ever-larger margins – even without subsidies – with that trend forecast to continue for decades to come.” see link.

“ Then, has anyone actually considered what effect all of these windmills will have on changing the climate? Of course not…it’s just like the fact they failed to consider bird kills.”

Wind turbines do kill birds. However, they aren’t the major overall contributors to bird kill. Domestic cats kill magnitude more birds. Glass mirrored buildings kill more (like Trump Tower). Hell, cars kill hundreds times more birds. So if bird conservation is a value for you then keep your cats inside, don’t visit Trump buildings, and drive slower. I’ll post a link in the next post.

Domestic electricity production should be an all of the above solution and nuclear should be a part of that.

From: KSflatlander
23-Nov-22

KSflatlander's Link
If you really want to know what are the major killer of birds (including wind turbines) here you go.

As far as Hawaii, true there are decommissioned wind projects but Hawaii is producing more renewable energy than ever before. The proof is in the pudding. See link in previous posts up the chain. Or ignore it. You have a right to remain ignorant.

From: 12yards
23-Nov-22
I'd rather have all nukes power. Bulldoze those ugly damn solar fields and windmills. Why do we need those if nuclear would be more reliable. I'd rather spend way more in nuclear than dot the country -side with panels and mills.

From: sundowner
23-Nov-22
So called "Climate change" is the religion of the left. It's a hoax perpetrated by the dem party to scare young gullible people looking for a "cause" that can't be proven. It used to be called "global warming" until they noticed record cold in some parts of the world that didn't fit the narrative.

Like the old south Texas rancher said when he was asked if the 103° temp could be called Global Warming.........."No, we just call it summertime".

From: Bigdog 21
23-Nov-22
As a glacier over in France melts.they find artifact's from American soldiers in wwi in the caves that was in the glacier. So what come first wwi are glacier., We find City built on the ocean floor where ice has melted ? And do they Tell anyone we just past threw are 5th ice age? Arrows under the ice ? How did all this get under the ice? Global warming? NOT. Just earth doing it's thing.

From: fuzzy
24-Nov-22
Climate changes is real, natural, inevitable and relatively insignificant compared to other looming world issues facing mankind. It's a "red herring" (like COVID was) to hold the attention of the masses so they miss what's really coming.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-22
So what happens to all the CO2 and methane that goes into the atmosphere and what are the reactions of rising CO2 in the atmosphere?

Covid was a red herring? That’s great news. I need to tell my cousin who died from Covid. I’m sure he will be relieved to hear that.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-22
Welcome back Shawn. Now go away the adults are talking.

From: fuzzy
24-Nov-22
Flat lander, I lost a dear friend to COVID as well. It definitely is a potentially deadly illness, like many others. I also have a good friend who is currently recovering from an injury with complications which would have killed him if it'd happened during the COVID protocols.. The media hype and overblown response is the red herring.

24-Nov-22

Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
A nice little solar panel “farm” on your favourite glassing spot out in the “low ecological value” desert!
Mike Ukrainetz's embedded Photo
A nice little solar panel “farm” on your favourite glassing spot out in the “low ecological value” desert!
Some of my favourite parts of this thread is from KSflatlander, like when he only counts the base of the wind tower as used up, “low ecological value habitat”, even though he admits that many of wind “farms” are completely sprayed down with round up far from the base. But not to worry though because he’s “seeing a transition to pollinator habitat”.

First of all, it’s not a wind “farm”. That makes it sound nice but it’s no “farm”. And then they are “transitioning” to pollinated habitat, they aren’t actually in real life but they are trying. I wonder how many pollinator bees will get wiped out by the giant spinning blades?!

I also wonder if ole flatlander also counts the mountains covered in solar panels as not using up the habitat because they are raised 10 feet off the ground?

From: Thornton
24-Nov-22
Must you respond to everything Ryan Hrabe? (KsFlatlander) Is there nothing you are not an expert in?

24-Nov-22
Another good one is by “Republican Matt” where he says they don’t put windmills near his favourite Liberal cities because they need sufficient wind speed and that isn’t near big cities yet there isn’t a single windmill near, chinook wind prone Calgary, Alberta yet there are lots of them out in hillbilly, Politically Conservative farm and ranch land! Not one on the very windy route to Banff where the Liberals commute and go for a mountain drive.

There are lots of them east of Calgary where there is less wind!

The government pays people to be influencers to their approved agenda. Don’t think Bowsite is escaping this propaganda, to “stop misinformation!” Look how much time KSflatlander is spending on here! Why? And if he is failing a bit on his arguments, Bigeasygator or Grey Ghost or Matt or Mike in CT will come to the rescue with more theoretical mumbo, jumbo!

From: bowhunt
24-Nov-22

From: Grey Ghost
24-Nov-22
Ranchers (“hillbillies”) are signing the windmill leases in my neck of the woods, Mike, and glad they did. $5-7K a year for one turbine per 80 acres. And they can still farm/graze 78 acres around each turbine.

They vote for the red team too.

Matt

From: 70lbDraw
24-Nov-22
Why are we posting potentially personal information for people we know nothing about?

Everything has a fine line, and that crosses it when it comes to Bowsite etiquette. Talk shit about folks all you want, but don’t be posting other people address. Whether it’s legit or not!

24-Nov-22
Yes, Grey Ghost, that’s called government subsidies. More money being laundered through the system by crooked politicians, same as these reparations!

From: Matt
24-Nov-22

Matt's embedded Photo
Matt's embedded Photo
"Another good one is by “Republican Matt” where he says they don’t put windmills near his favourite Liberal cities because they need sufficient wind speed and that isn’t near big cities yet there isn’t a single windmill near, chinook wind prone Calgary, Alberta yet there are lots of them out in hillbilly, Politically Conservative farm and ranch land! Not one on the very windy route to Banff where the Liberals commute and go for a mountain drive."

Wind farm locations require minimum average wind speed of at least 15 MPH and maximum of less than 55 MPH. Simple question for you, is 8 more or less than 15? If you can answer that question correctly, it should be abundantly clear to you why there are no wind farms in close proximity to Calgary.

From: 70lbDraw
25-Nov-22

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-22
Shawn, Thornton, t-roy- maybe you all should look up “doxing” and KS state law on cyberstalking. I’m not this person you think I am and you all are exposing yourself to some personal liability. I prefer not to get caught up in that myself. I had a great day with family yesterday. MY family. You want to threaten MY family or some else’s family on a public website? Not smart. And for the record if you did have my correct name and address you do not have my consent to post it. I assume this person’s name you are posting you think is me hasn’t consented to your posting of their name or address either. You better consider what might happen if they find out. Just really not smart. And for the record Shawn Magyar, I only posted your name because you actually posted your government ID in the past. You consented based on the law. I have not. Happy thanksgiving to you all but please grow up.

Mike U- something is seriously wrong with your cognitive abilities. First, roundup a wind farm? That’s seriously a dumb comment and I never said that. No wind farms are completely sprayed with roundup. 20,000 acres of roundup. Lol. And why would they do that? Just dumb. Oh and that solar farm is in China. Not the U.S. Seems pretty inefficient to me as some of those panels would be in the shade at least 1/2 the time. Some states require a mitigation for wildlife habitat loss. That means replacing what was lost in case you don’t know what habitat mitigation is. But you knew that right.

And you are just dumb enough to think that designing wind farms is just building turbines in windy areas. The first rule is always wind transmission along with wind speed as Matt points out. You have to get electrons to your customer or the grid. That is controlled by regional grid operators and they in turn need to understand variability effects. That’s just one issue way oversimplified. There are 100 more decisions in deciding where a wind or solar is located. Only a simpleton like you would think it’s that simple. Wind turbines in cities. This statement obviously shows you are clueless. For example, check out effects of turbines on radar, tv signals, radio waves, etc. that’s just one of many complex issues.

Seriously, when right wing nuts are exposed for their looney tunes, why do they go to “you must be a paid operative? Why turn straight to conspiracy BS. I assure you that…you personally, this site, or Pat are really not that important for me to waste my time banging my head against a wall of idiocy.. I come here voluntarily because bowhunting has been my passion since I was 5 years old. The woods is my church, and wildlife is my interest and career. Making right wing nuts look silly with the cuckoo stuff they post is just something to do. The truth and facts do matter. That’s the only reward. I thought maybe exposing them for their mis/disinformation would get them to stop. I figured out it’s not that simple with simpletons. But that’s about to change as I can see based on recent threads the damage this back and forth does. The truth just doesn’t matter to some people I guess.

From: Thornton
25-Nov-22
I have yet to see anyone who has threatened you. If you feel threatened, it is by insecurities of your own making. I would feel insecure as well, if I had spent over a decade degrading and slandering anyone who thought differently than I on a public forum. Internet doxxing is not illegal, especially if you voluntarily entered into a debate on a public forum. Kansas is a third party state, and any conversations can be recorded as long as the recorder is part of the conversation. You throwing your credentials around apparently seemed to illicit verifications by some and it has been said one of your own acquaintances gave out your last name to a bowsiter. Your attempt at humanizing yourself by reminding us that you had a normal Thanksgiving with family and that you love bowhunting hints of an attempt to play victim. One of your last posts, you called someone "dumb" on here. I do not think any judge in their right mind would rule in your favor when you're stalking people who have registered their real names on this site, and arguing with them constantly. If someone showed up at your door, which is public record, or at the community college where you work part time, which is also public record, then you might have have a case. In the meantime, there are guys on here that have screenshot every personal attack you've ever done.

From: 2Wild Bill
25-Nov-22
"But until"

The two most real words in all of what KS said. "But until" is where we are now. The expense of getting to where KS wants to be is at the expense of believing technology(the best man can do) is capable of anything. In this case the trust required to continue in this direction is based only in a dream/idea/educated guess, which in substance is an actual MAYBE. His is the same ancient idea as turning lead into gold. It can be done today, but at a cost far exceeding a rational purpose for doing so. Those guys who wanted the ability to make gold are long ago gone, their dream, folly. Man's "anything" ability is limited to the providence of Almighty God.

“All my discoveries have been made in answer to prayer.” - Issac Newton

Is the plan to impliment renewable energy today being carried out by people wanting to glorify God or mankind? I'm of the opinion that anyone's success depends on their personal relationship to God. Maybe KS could see this also, but he is mixed in with bad company and as of yet, has no credible proof of success down the road of renewable energy.

From: Beendare
25-Nov-22
The folks like KS that are pushing these wind farms and making a living from this bad math are throwing tax dollars away.

The facts; 1) Wind power is incredibly inefficient; A maximum of 59.3 percent of the wind’s kinetic energy can be converted, based on Betz’s law 59%- very inefficient

2) Then on top of Betz law, the average turbine operates at an efficiency rate of 20 to 30 percent. Compare that to a molecule of Nuclear energy that is one million times the potential in an oil molecule.

3) These wind farms have proven to be net negative. They cannot survive without gov supplements and big tax breaks. All we need to know is that many have gone belly up due to the unsustainability....its a fact. There are 5 or 6 in Hawaii alone....something like 14,000 estimated derelict windmills in the US....but these Environmentalist folks keep pushing them.

The environmental types like KS that just plain cannot do the math.....consulting and making $$ from this are akin to the oldest profession. Its actually worse because these WM are estimated to cost about $1,000 each to remove....and this is all money that could be spent on something like Nuclear that is a net positive.

The fact we keep building these things is a testament to the stupidity of hack environmental types.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-22
Beendare- I’m curious what you think the efficiency of a coal, nuclear, or natural gas plant is? Do you know how much of the coal/uranium/gas is actually converted into an electron in your home? It’s around ~30% for the first 2 and around ~40% for natural gas. The difference is you don’t have to mine wind or sunlight then burn it to heat water to turn a turbine. As long as humans will be in existence there will be wind and sunlight. The fuel cost for wind and sunlight ZERO. So if your fuel is unlimited then efficiency isn’t as big of an issue. But reliability is still a problem. Nuclear is the most reliable.

You think we will still be using fossil fuels in 100, 200, 500 years? How much will an electron from fossil fuels cost (finite source) be in the future? You know that supply demand stuff. Supply is absolutely going down and demand (population) is growing exponentially. I know the fuel cost for renewables now and a million years from now…ZERO. We haven’t figure out how to effectively and efficiently store renewable energy so for now we will need all current power technologies and sources.

IMO the biggest energy transition with be decentralized power production. We will generate power locally at our homes and not just through solar or wind. The transition is happening now (see off grid cabin build thread for example). However, we will still need centralized power sources for industry and manufacturing due to the large (need on demand) loads. But I believe in American exceptionalism and we will find a way. We don’t have a choice and necessity is the mother of invention.

My math is just fine.

From: Matt
26-Nov-22
“The difference is you don’t have to mine wind or sunlight then burn it to heat water to turn a turbine…”

Or pay to ship it to where it can be used to generate power.

26-Nov-22
^^^^On the reverse of that way of thinking, I use wind power energy all the time. I often take my baselayer off and hang it in a tree while hunting. So it dries after a walk up the mountain. We do the same with the laundry at home too. Works great. I just can’t figure out how to load it up and take it with me though.^^^^

I’m not suggesting you don’t agree. But, fossil fuels aren’t going any where.

To others, It’s ridiculous to argue with Flathead. His science is hand picked. On every subject from wolves to religion. It’s comical to read his thoughts. So biased and one sided he’s stopped being legitimate a long time ago. So, why argue with him?

Regardless of flatheads real name, job, occupation, etc…., you’ve got to remember one thing. His science is motivated. He’s guilty of everything he accuses others of on the science HE chooses. And, that’s what he does. He chooses his facts from wolves to religion. So, why argue with a man that does that?

From: DanaC
26-Nov-22
"Kai Kukano"

Do you have some kind of 'silly name generator app' going there?

Sorry bub, but you can't change your literary 'spots' that easily. >;-)

From: Grey Ghost
26-Nov-22
The old timers knew the value of wind and solar power. Windmills have pumped water for centuries, and still do. Passive solar house designs have been around since humans lived in cave dwellings. Both forms of energy have a purpose. But, trying to convert wind or solar into electricity without an adequate storage solution is pushing the cart ahead of the horse, IMO.

Matt

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22
KK/Shawn Magyar- you do not own the copyright to that photo nor do you have consent.

November 26, 2022

From: fuzzy
26-Nov-22
Matt/Grey Ghost, possibly but we have to start somewhere. Fossil Fuel energy is a dead-end technology. Not because of climate change, but because of the finite supply. We will be seeing a trend toward more diverse energy sources in the next few decades. Fossil fuels are necessary to power the shift but eventually we (or our descendants) will have to become more frugal, and more accepting of alternatives.

From: Bowbender
26-Nov-22
WTF...... Pat, Charlies. Phil.......Why is crap like this from Shawn allowed to continue? We have a thread started by Jaq, long time contributor, helped me (and others) with elk hunting via phone calls and PM...his legitimate thread gets yanked. Meanwhile we get to deal with the likes of monkey boi, booger eater Shawn. All because he is unable to handle a different opinion, position, viewpoint.

You three make it quite clear to this community that his input is valued over long time contributors that are not only a benefit to Bowsite but to the bowhunting community as well. Shawn, and a few others are neither.

From: 2Wild Bill
26-Nov-22
"He chooses his facts from wolves to religion. So, why argue with a man that does that?" - WV

There is not much chance of changing liberal's minds. "There is none so blind as he who will not see". But you cannot let their lies stand. You have to refute them with the facts. - sundowner

He's working his self righteous way to heaven. He's good enough, despite his support of killing innocent babies created by God.

"I’m comfortable for my list of works thus far. I’m ready today to meet me maker." -KS

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 14:12 and Proverbs 16:25 Said twice to stress the importance of avoiding delusional faith.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8&9

"I’m comfortable for my list of works thus far. I’m ready today to meet me maker." -KS, the boaster. Unbelievers, believers and make believers, KS, you are the latter.

From: Bowbender
26-Nov-22
Missed nothing. Been here since '97. Same handle. Full name. You just can't handle the fact that not only does someone have an opposing viewpoint, but defends and backs is viewpoint.

There used to be quite a number of liberals on here that posted regularly. Gene Jockey, Mark Hogan, Blue Dog, Catfish...to name a few. You speak of tolerance. Yet, I have yet to see KS or the others that I have mentioned engage in the Bravo Sierra that you do. I wish Pat would update this forum. Add an ignore feature. That way the garbage doesn't show in ones feed.

Pat, you need to get a handle on this sh!t. Quite a few of us are aware of why the CF was shut down in June of 2019. The cyberbullying and defamation is now spilling onto others. Not just you. Guessing this post has a life expectancy measured in minutes... Meanwhile, the trash is still stinking up the house.

From: Stix
26-Nov-22

From: Bowbender
26-Nov-22
I voted for Trump. Twice. What's really refreshing is to see your stereotype of Trump voters shot to hell.

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22
Keep digging Shawn/KK/KG.

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22
Shawn- please post a link to this website you speak of…more libel. Keep digging.

From: 2Wild Bill
26-Nov-22
I've been at Bowsite since the 90's. People are here for various reasons with bow hunting the obvious common denominator. I like the switch to liberty vs. repression, not like Leatherwall where the loud preference is to bury their heads in the sand. I agree that moderation as deemed by the owner is a just condition. I don't have to sign in at every visit, but doing so is a daily thing because I want to.

I was not someone who followed the daily gripes regarding politics on the community board, but, religion was taking some ugly whacks and the worse behavior of people did disturb me and my participation dropped off on that part of the site. I'm back with a profound interest in "the people". After this many years there are not many bow hunting subjects I haven't heard, but the personal stories, unique hunts and gear reviews which I appreciate, are those where the posters reveal themselves in some small way or another. Photos are most enjoyable as a window into the world outside my own.

I'm a recurve bow hunter, religious and political. Other people like me are also on this site and whether we agree or disagree, the opportunity to exchange something of ourselves makes this site invaluable to my purpose in life, a community which stimulates my days, of which I have a limited number remaining.

My only disappointment with this site is losing my ability to initiate private messages.

A free site in a free country with freedom of speach, IS making Bowsite great again.

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22

KSflatlander's Link
“Ryan Hrabe superbowsite Socialist. Your chit is everywhere online. Open sourced, you put it there and all legal to see, send and comment on.”

You sure about that Shawn? I think you checked all the boxes.

Again that photo is copyrighted and I did not give you consent. You seriously should stop.

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22
Nice deer. I’ve been here since the late 90s so 2 decades.

From: Bowbender
26-Nov-22
Nice buck, Ryan!!

Ultimate irony. A POS, that has been booted, many many times, has false registrations, no full name, calling out another member that has had personal info posted and no longer posts his full name. You may have served but you have ZERO honor.

From: Beendare
26-Nov-22

Lets not lose sight of the initial premise here; our gov is throwing billions of $$$$$ away- essentially blackmail money that does nothing to advance our country forward. Its bad policy.

Renewables definitely have a place in the energy solution; solar on homes….some localized wind power, geothermal, hydro, etc.

We have such a massive demand, the bulk of our energy has to come from reliable and a very efficient source. It could be that fission is that source in the future but we arent there yet.

My point is to illustrate the fallacy of the current Environmentalists thinking that we can run the entire country on wind and solar- it simply won’t work and there are plenty of bad examples to learn from inc last years debacle in Texas.

From: KSflatlander
26-Nov-22
“My point is to illustrate the fallacy of the current Environmentalists thinking that we can run the entire country on wind and solar- it simply won’t work”

As of right now, this is 100% true.

From: Ambush
26-Nov-22
I probably strongly disagree with KSfl on about eighty percent of his opinions and vehemently disagree with another five percent, but I’d still rather have him at my table than someone who has to use twenty fake names to get readmitted. Man Shawn, you got to get that head of yours treated!!

I think California is a great example or maybe even a grand experiment in alt-energy viability. And so far it’s a failure and will become even more so with each passing green initiative. And for some reason they believe that BC OWES them hydro electric because they are saving the world for us. BC has massive hydro electric capacity and potential, way more than we can utilize affectively. And yet our rates are ridiculous and all to subsidize “Green” And often someone else’s Green, all while they chide us for spoiling “their” world.

It’s kinda like people who want to eat meat, but don’t want to know or admit it involves the death of an animal.

From: Matt
26-Nov-22
"I think California is a great example or maybe even a grand experiment in alt-energy viability. And so far it’s a failure and will become even more so with each passing green initiative. And for some reason they believe the BC OWES them hydro electric because they are saving the world for us. BC had massive hydro electric capacity and potential, way more than we can utilize affectively. And yet our rates are ridiculous and all to subsidize “Green” And often someone else’s Green, all while they chide us for spoiling “their” world."

As a Californian, I can't agree more. To tangentally add to your critique of our leadership's response to climate concerns, we have our own EPA and the most restrictive pollution laws in the US (sale of new gas vehicles will be eliminated in 2035 and the sale of all offroad gas motors such as weed whackers and chain saws will be eliminated in 2024).

With all this, a study recently demonstrated that our 2020 wildfire season in which 4.3M acres burned wiped out 16 years of climate gains. That stage was set largely through decades of bowing to preservationist greenies. The state recently instituted an initiate to perform prescribed burns totaling 400,000 acres/year. The math suggests that California will begin proactively wiping out ~1.5 years of climate gains annually through this initiative. The obvious question is whether the state will expect Cal Fire to manage all those prescribed burns with electric chain saws?

From: Ambush
26-Nov-22
^^^ Yes, it’s good to be ideological motivated, but you still have to practically driven.

From: DL
26-Nov-22

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
Yeah we are the problem!! When these countries start cleaning up their act maybe we could help. Guaranteed money given to these countries will go to corrupt leaders

From: DL
27-Nov-22

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo

From: Bou'bound
28-Nov-22
Foolishness

  • Sitka Gear