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Don't turn non hunters into antis
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
fuzzy 22-Dec-22
fuzzy 22-Dec-22
fuzzy 22-Dec-22
fdp 22-Dec-22
Bou'bound 22-Dec-22
Live2Hunt 22-Dec-22
fuzzy 22-Dec-22
soccern23ny 22-Dec-22
TonyBear 22-Dec-22
fuzzy 22-Dec-22
Jaquomo 22-Dec-22
Bou’bound 22-Dec-22
timex 22-Dec-22
tradi-doerr 22-Dec-22
Corax_latrans 22-Dec-22
DonVathome 23-Dec-22
KSflatlander 23-Dec-22
DanaC 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 23-Dec-22
BC 23-Dec-22
DanaC 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 23-Dec-22
Boreal 23-Dec-22
DanaC 23-Dec-22
fuzzy 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 23-Dec-22
Bou’bound 23-Dec-22
fuzzy 23-Dec-22
Jaquomo 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 23-Dec-22
Jaquomo 23-Dec-22
Jaquomo 23-Dec-22
Missouribreaks 23-Dec-22
70lbDraw 23-Dec-22
Grey Ghost 23-Dec-22
Corax_latrans 23-Dec-22
Rocky D 24-Dec-22
KSflatlander 24-Dec-22
Rocky D 24-Dec-22
timex 24-Dec-22
Rocky D 24-Dec-22
timex 24-Dec-22
Jaquomo 24-Dec-22
DanaC 24-Dec-22
Will 24-Dec-22
Jaquomo 24-Dec-22
jjs 24-Dec-22
Catscratch 24-Dec-22
gflight 24-Dec-22
RK 24-Dec-22
WV Mountaineer 24-Dec-22
Rocky D 25-Dec-22
DonVathome 25-Dec-22
2Wild Bill 25-Dec-22
Missouribreaks 25-Dec-22
DanaC 25-Dec-22
Grey Ghost 25-Dec-22
Rocky D 25-Dec-22
Jaquomo 25-Dec-22
Grey Ghost 25-Dec-22
Rocky D 25-Dec-22
Jaquomo 25-Dec-22
Rocky D 25-Dec-22
Jaquomo 25-Dec-22
DanaC 25-Dec-22
gflight 25-Dec-22
From: fuzzy
22-Dec-22
https://www.ajc.com/neighborhoods/north-fulton/trespassing-bow-hunters-killing-beheading-deer-in-sandy-springs-frustrated-neighbors-say/KELR6NLYFFBNZPFYGPEJJKZ5D4/

From: fuzzy
22-Dec-22
Typical non hunting press negative spin on the story but the complaints: unrecovered arrows, carcasses left, etc. are poor P.R. Let's do what we can to present a positive image and reduce the urban hunting negative "footprint ". Talk to landowners about what we do and why. Remove the whole animal including gutpile. Recover arrows. Hunt a safe and socially palatable away from residences. Don't block access to driveways. Don't leave trash. Offer game meat, or maybe a card or small gift card after season.

From: fuzzy
22-Dec-22
There WILL be "Karens" don't engage them. Be polite. Maybe "I apologize that you have that feeling but this is my recreational choice and it helps the community and the animals in the long view" if they are not screaming lunatics. Don't argue.

From: fdp
22-Dec-22
Excellent points that you have made.

From: Bou'bound
22-Dec-22
Out of sight out of mind is best.

From: Live2Hunt
22-Dec-22
I've been stating is as this if I am asked about hunting, I am a human being animal, and am meant to be omnivorous. I am just doing what is human instinct. But, I do agree, we cannot doing things that are inappropriate.

From: fuzzy
22-Dec-22
Live2Hunt, exactly. And our standards of care should be somewhat sensitive to the residents in a residential area. I'm not saying coddle them just take a little extra care. Remember that a non hunter doesn't recognize the difference between a caped , gutless butchered carcass, and one that's been decapitated for the "trophy" and left to waste. I once lost hunting rights to a farm because I lost a broadhead arrow in a grass field. I told the owner and he appreciated my honesty but asked me not to bowhunt there again. I can see his point but it stung.

From: soccern23ny
22-Dec-22
A lot of good points. Trespassing/ shooting towards houses/ hitting them is bad. I hunt and dont want a carcass/ gut pile left in my yard. Cant imagine how a non hunter would feel.

From: TonyBear
22-Dec-22
As a mixed Anglo European, French Canadian , Native American me and my ancestors have been hunting for over an Epoch.

After the puzzled look goes off of their face I hand them a deer stick or jerky. I have only been turned down a few times.

From: fuzzy
22-Dec-22
TomyBear same here. Did you read the article?

From: Jaquomo
22-Dec-22
Just like some other behaviors in society, the vast majority of people don't object to what we do, so long as we don't rub their noses in it. When we force them to "watch" is when ambivalence becomes anger.

From: Bou’bound
22-Dec-22
We don’t need to win non hunters over we just need them not to become antis. Neutral is fine

From: timex
22-Dec-22
Here's a non hunters perspective. This guy is a great fisherman but doesn't hunt. He has no problem with legal hunting and enjoys venison and other game I've cooked especially roasted duck. His problem is trophy hunting. Road hunting is a big problem where he lives and folks addiction to Horns really gets on his nerves. He views trophy hunting as reverse evolution taking the biggest & strongest from the heard. Again the guy kills fish for food and has no issues with meat hunting and animal control. But between the road hunters and the glorification of horns he definitely has issues about trophy hunting. When we fish together it's a rule on the boat that deer hunting is not discussed.

From: tradi-doerr
22-Dec-22
+1 Jaquomo, I married into a non-hunter family (well there was one other hunter on her side), they support and understand hunting but just don't care to participate or witness it. Wife now loves wild game meat and loves to help me butcher my kills, she loves seeing the freezer fill up with great eating meat. I also learned to not call it "A sport", they feel saying it's 'sporting' is the wrong way to represent what hunting is, I agree with them on that phrase.

22-Dec-22
It’s pretty simple, really….

A lot of people are OK (in principle) with people who identify as LGBTQXYZ, but don’t care to see a coupla guys making out on a park bench, or pictures of similar activities posted to Facebook.

That’s how non-hunters feel about blood&guts hero shots, gutpile humor, prominent displays of game being transported, etc.

By and large, most folks tend not to oppose other people’s choices until they’ve been shocked or offended by them. You don’t want Anti-Hunting legislation? Don’t offend non-hunters. Just because it seems “normal” to you as a Hunter doesn’t mean that it’s not going to gain the antis an ally.

From: DonVathome
23-Dec-22
Goof post fuzzy. I agree with out of sight out of mind. Very important. If discussion comes up - consider your audience. When asked about hunting by neutral people you have a good chance to plant some good seeds. Share game meat.

Last I heard 10% of us hunt and 10% are antihunters. That leaves a LOT of neutral folks, offend 1% of them and you double the number of antihunters, and kill our sport.

From: KSflatlander
23-Dec-22
Too many hunters are passive and won’t speak up or call out other “hunters” when they do, say, or post unethical and ant-conservation stuff. It happens here sometimes for all the public to see. Then some wonder why non-hunters think we are all knuckle-draggers. Maybe if we would call out other “hunters” on such behavior then it wouldn’t be a cool back-slapping thing to do. For example, the SSS posters or hunters who value only wildlife they can kill or wild places they can hunt.

From: DanaC
23-Dec-22
10-10-80. 10 percent of people are pro-hunting, 10 percent are anti-hunting, the other 80 percent don't want to be bothered. Why bother them? Why 'gross them out'? Why even make them uncomfortable? They still VOTE, and alienating them is likely to push them against us if a referendum question shows up on a ballot.

From: Rocky D
23-Dec-22
“ Out of sight out of mind is best”

“ We don’t need to win non hunters over we just need them not to become antis.”

Bou, this methodology has not been working! This is why we are slowly losing the battle and will continue to do so unless we change our mindset.

It’s like Jack Dempsey said “that the best defense is a good offense”.

From: BC
23-Dec-22
“Out of sight out of mind” works fine where I live and hunt. Not many allies in suburban Boston. Those that do let us hunt on their property are great but don’t want grief from neighbors. We keep it low key for us and them. Works out pretty good.

From: DanaC
23-Dec-22
" It’s like Jack Dempsey said “that the best defense is a good offense”. "

A *good* offense doesn't include offending potential allies. Or turning them against yourself.

From: Rocky D
23-Dec-22
“ Out of sight out of mind is best”

“ We don’t need to win non hunters over we just need them not to become antis.”

Bou, this methodology has not been working! This is why we are slowly losing the battle and will continue to do so unless we change our mindset.

It’s like Jack Dempsey said “that the best defense is a good offense”.

From: Rocky D
23-Dec-22
“ A *good* offense doesn't include offending potential allies. Or turning them against yourself.”

DanaC, our only defense is to try to control other hunters. It does nothing for winning the hearts and minds of no hunters.

I wonder why homosexuality, transvestites, or cross dressing doesn’t gross them out!

They have an offense and they are definitely on the offensive!

We bemoan our low numbers while they embrace theirs as unique and special!

From: Boreal
23-Dec-22
A couple of problems with this "article": The headline says "trespassing bow hunters killing, beheading deer" and yet no where in the article does it cite an example of this, only a deer stand reported on private property and even that doesn't give any verification.

"Hunting on public or private property requires written permission from the landowner." Really?? Hunting on public property requires permission?

This is an amateurish, poorly written article which is based on hearsay and lacks any verification.

From: DanaC
23-Dec-22
" DanaC, our only defense is to try to control other hunters. It does nothing for winning the hearts and minds of no hunters. "

Non-hunters might be impressed by 'hunters feeding the hungry' programs, just for one instance. Promoting safe gun handling for young people. Concerned with keeping nature 'in balance' with the habitat.

I meet guys who think they're 'helping' by posting in-your-face pix of dead bloody animals on social media. Yeah, it may feel good in a 'F* you antis' way but remember that 10-10-80? You offend 8 times as many non-hunters as anti-hunters.

You want to offend antis? Show up at one of their rallies in a fur hat, leather jacket, eating a cheeseburger.

From: fuzzy
23-Dec-22
Boreal I agree. That's the "spin" I mentioned. The only way to combat media spin is to be so squeaky clean that they have nothing to spin.

From: Rocky D
23-Dec-22
“ I meet guys who think they're 'helping' by posting in-your-face pix of dead bloody animals on social media. Yeah, it may feel good in a 'F* you antis' way but remember that 10-10-80? You offend 8 times as many non-hunters as anti-hunters.”

DanaC, don’t become part of the problem. No one has developed a good offense but wasn’t it Einstein who said something about continuing to do the same things and expecting a different result was the true sign of ignorance.

Somehow we need to make hunting to be as a cool thing to do like eat organic, be a participant within nature, or self reliance!

We can expect the hunting organizations to continue and do NOTHING!

From: Bou’bound
23-Dec-22
Rocky I would say hunters in general have not been out of sight out of mind. too many have been behaving poorly in pain sight and are then in the minds of people who otherwise could care less what happens out of sight.

How many guys drive down main street with a gutted deer in the bed of their truck because they can. How many people don't want to see that and remember it next time.

like any other population a very memorable, but very small minority can mess things up for the huge majority.

too many hunters are leaving impressions on people that are bad for hunting.

From: fuzzy
23-Dec-22
RockyD the quote you mentioned is that the definition of INSANITY (not ignorance) is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. It's most commonly and falsely attributed to Albert Einstein but sometimes Confucius, Ben Franklin etc. Actually though it is a good life lesson, scientically it's not entirely accurate since it doesn't account for randomness. For example, roll a pair of dice and you can and should expect different results from one roll to the next. And people and their actions and reactions are certainly often random.

From: Jaquomo
23-Dec-22
Hunting will never be perceived as "cool". The Left media and educational system will see to that, along with the entertainment industry.

The best we can hope for is that it continues to be accepted by the majority of voting adults. In another generation, that may not be the case anymore.

From: Rocky D
23-Dec-22
“ Rocky I would say hunters in general have not been out of sight out of mind.”

“ Hunting will never be perceived as "cool". The Left media and educational system will see to that, along with the entertainment industry.”

Bou, jaq provided my reply! We cannot hide from the problem!

Here is the perceived reality which could be very near to truth but is cowardly approach to life and the legacy!

“ The best we can hope for is that it continues to be accepted by the majority of voting adults. In another generation, that may not be the case anymore.”

From: Jaquomo
23-Dec-22
Cowardly? Really. What are you suggesting, that we beat up nonhunting voters and force them to eat raw deer liver? Throw elk blood on them? Put "Hunting is cool!" bumper stickers on our pickups? Figure out a way to make school kids watch "Smack Daddy" videos in class? That'll bring them around.

From: Jaquomo
23-Dec-22
Colorado Parks and Wildlife spent millions on the Hug A Hunter media campaign, for several years. Prime time TV ads, very well done, showing the positive side of hunting and hunters.

What did it get us? Wolves...

23-Dec-22
Jaquomo is right on the mark.

From: 70lbDraw
23-Dec-22
Interesting topic. When I lived in ABQ, I could bowhunt the Sandias for almost 4 months on an over the counter resident tag. Inevitability I would run into tree huggers. They were there to disrupt the hunt, and if you were successful they’d shame you and pester you.

Hunting in general is going the same way as every other tradition we used to enjoy. Thanks to the internet, everyone’s business is in everyone else’s face all the time. Instead of live and let live, we now instantly need to cancel that which we disagree with.

Not to mention the term “Hunter”, gives the non hunting crowd an image of someone with a “gun”. That in itself is a slam dunk for gun haters!

Look around, it’s not just hunting. Anything that is recreational in someone’s mind is reason enough for someone else to ruin it for them. Nothing we can do is going to change that…especially these days!

From: Grey Ghost
23-Dec-22
Something I always try to do with my non-hunting family and friends is share my cool and unusual hunting sights and experiences that don’t involve killing an animal. It may be a sunrise on a peak at 12k feet. Or a chipmunk that scampers over my boots while sitting in a blind. Or an owl that lands on a branch just above my head while in a tree stand. Or a fox eating a chunk of bologna out of my hand. Or 2 magpies sitting on the back of a bedded bull elk. Whatever I can capture in a pic or video that they aren’t likely to ever witness themselves.

I send it to them via personal text messages, or emails, not on social media. And I always mention that I was hunting when it happened. They always seem to enjoy and appreciate it.

One thing I never do is send them pics that involve bloody dead animals or carcasses.

I’ll be seeing some of them this weekend. I can almost guarantee I’ll be asked about my hunting season within the first few hours of our visit. They don’t hunt, but they are always curious about my hunting. I don’t recall any negativity expressed from any of them.

Matt

23-Dec-22
What GG said.

A lot of people appreciate Nature; they just don’t see themselves as Active Participants

From: Rocky D
24-Dec-22
“ Cowardly? Really. What are you suggesting, that we beat up nonhunting voters and force them to eat raw deer liver? Throw elk blood on them? Put "Hunting is cool!" bumper stickers on our pickups? Figure out a way to make school kids watch "Smack Daddy" videos in class? That'll bring them around.”

Jaq, no need to go off the deep end of being ridiculous with your comment but that’s very typical behavior for you!

Instead of actually thinking about an opposing thought you just clamor away with some garbage.

I am suggesting that if we continue the same mantra of just policing ourselves we can expect to see the same results!

Why try to kill the discussion? Let’s not discuss different alternatives or solutions that may be good for the sport to go along with policing ourselves.

This is not the first time that we’ve had this discussion and I always say the same thing and you do likewise.

Our current method is losing and unfortunately the smack daddy has probably inspired more future bowhunters than most.

I’m beginning to think the smack daddy bothers other bowhunters more than it does non hunters.

This is a like listening to the GOP and then they vote for the $1.7 trillion and bitch about earmarks.

From: KSflatlander
24-Dec-22
“ I am suggesting that if we continue the same mantra of just policing ourselves we can expect to see the same results!”

Rocky- I’ve yet to see you call out those who say unethical things about things here in regards to hunting.

“This is a like listening to the GOP and then they vote for the $1.7 trillion and bitch about earmarks.”

Stupid and irrelevant strawman.

From: Rocky D
24-Dec-22
“ Cowardly? Really. What are you suggesting, that we beat up nonhunting voters and force them to eat raw deer liver? Throw elk blood on them? Put "Hunting is cool!" bumper stickers on our pickups? Figure out a way to make school kids watch "Smack Daddy" videos in class? That'll bring them around.”

Jaq, no need to go off the deep end of being ridiculous with your comment but that’s very typical behavior for you!

Instead of actually thinking about an opposing thought you just clamor away with some garbage.

I am suggesting that if we continue the same mantra of just policing ourselves we can expect to see the same results!

Why try to kill the discussion? Let’s not discuss different alternatives or solutions that may be good for the sport to go along with policing ourselves.

This is not the first time that we’ve had this discussion and I always say the same thing and you do likewise.

Our current method is losing and unfortunately the smack daddy has probably inspired more future bowhunters than most.

I’m beginning to think the smack daddy bothers other bowhunters more than it does non hunters.

This is a like listening to the GOP and then they vote for the $1.7 trillion and bitch about earmarks.

From: timex
24-Dec-22
I've had peta anti's spit spit on me. I've had folks that have never hunted a day in their life ask to go & I said sure you can come watch to which they say I want to shoot one myself to which I replied sure but you have to practice first and that's the end of that.

The actual kill is such a small part of the experience but yet the only " publicized" part of the experience.

Gonna be a lot of turkey, ham, prime rib eaten on Xmas day and folks aren't thinking about the killing of the critter their eating.

How often do you see the slaughter of domestic food animals " publicized". Basically ,,,,,never,,,,, the food industry is a lot smarter than us hunters in that aspect.

Probably the absolute worst is when a hunter makes the shot and the immediate celebration of joy and emotion is had on video. I get it I'm a hunter but to a neutral non hunter this celebratory joy is probably more damaging then the bloody dead animal pick.

Ever seen a video of someone in a slaughter house celebrating in joy just after bolting a cow in the head and saying ,,,,,,,,,wooooooh smoked em,,,,,,,,,and high 5ing the video guy.

No...I didn't think so.....were our own worst enemy. TIMEX

From: Rocky D
24-Dec-22
“ No...I didn't think so.....were our own worst enemy. TIMEX”

Timex, I’m not advocating for the current hunting show voodoo that’s going on but gays didn’t get excepted until they came out of the closet!

The antis believe that animals are sentient beings and there’s no convincing them otherwise.

The non hunter is the majority and to think that we can individually change enough of their minds to win the battle is nonsense.

P&Y, B&C, RMEF, and the many other pro hunting organizations have done little to nothing to grow hunters numbers to combat the issue.

We can’t organize because they are most concerned about their own survival!

We are our worst enemy because all we do is put other hunters down and continue the same mantra while we wait for our demise.

From: timex
24-Dec-22
Rocky D....the anti's aren't the issue no more than the hundreds of millions of non hunters eating turkey for Xmas dinner tomorrow. They know that turkey was killed. The biggest problem hunting is facing in the future is the lack of youngster's being introduced into hunting and perhaps the ever increased difficulty in obtaining decent places to hunt.

Your comparison of hunting acceptance to the lgbtq community movement is just __________ you pick the word. I don't want to be insulting.

From: Jaquomo
24-Dec-22
"The non hunter is the majority and to think that we can individually change enough of their minds to win the battle is nonsense."

We don't NEED to change their minds. The majority of nonhunters are ok with hunting so long as they can keep it at arms length and not have to watch the sausage be made. Virtually every national survey and poll shows this.

Ok, Rocky, let's hear some suggestions that have been proven to work. Every one of your posts on this thread is simply a criticism of what others have posted. The gay analogy is a red herring. Gays aren't killing millions of beautiful creatures everyone loves. If gays were having gay sex out in the streets and posting gay sex videos all over YouTube, and making videos to show on their own gay TV channels, the "acceptance" would turn into revulsion. Yet that's what you seem to advocate for hunters.

From: DanaC
24-Dec-22
Maybe you want an 'exciting' solution? There is none. Sorry.

There's the slow, dull plodding work of bringing people into the fold one by one. Mentoring. Holding kids- and beginners-friendly shooting events so they get jazzed. Holding hunter education/safety classes so they can get licenses anywhere. (Tried to find a course lately? Instructors needed!)

Working to keep fisheries/wildlife boards free of antis is dull but necessary work. Ditto working to keep open land available to the public. Working to keep your local shooting ranges/sporting clubs healthy.

Keeps a lot of us busy!

From: Will
24-Dec-22
This is an interesting thread, and I've appreciated reading it.

Speaking of my experiences hunting some pretty suburban areas of one of the most liberal states in the union, I've been pleasantly surprised the last 3-5 years. One family I chatted with for about 45' one afternoon, definitely getting me in the woods to late, but leading to 1.) them remembering me when they saw me the next year; 2.) their kids actually thinking hunting stuff, at the least, was cool, as I showed all my gear to them and explained it; 3.) I've found since, that some of the neighbors had chatted with that family and are much more open to me and tend to chat positively.

One NWR I hunt I've had multiple people who live on the dead end road I park on, which is covered in 800K+ homes has been similar. One afternoon this past fall I had an elderly woman and then middle aged guy, both walking dogs, chat, and wish me luck - even expressed frustration with the deer eating their plants.

One other NWR abuts some of the most $$$ towns about 20' west of Boston in good traffic. I found walking in the past few years that a few sort of neutrally negative interactions (cold shoulder but not negative commments/behavior) were single women. Sadly, in todays world, if I was a single woman walking a trail in the woods and a guy with a weapon and all camo'd up walked by, I'd probably have one hand on the mace, soooo hard to read that. I've had good interactions with groups of women, with random guys etc.

I did have one guy this year, hunter, in the lot, pretty much introduce himself to me by saying he used to hunt a private farm but the owner didnt like his maga stickers/hat etc and told him no more, before bashing non maga folks for a few minutes. Most of you know that I'm, uh, lets say WELL to the left of the average bowsiter politcally. So is the guy I was hunting with. He was even wearing a shirt that was from a liberal hunting group he's in ha ha ha! Once the dude did his venting though, we all had a good chat and saw him a few more times. Nice guy.

Point being, in that case, he lost a private land spot not because they didnt like hunting, but because the owner didnt appreciate the maga stuff in his face. May be worth considering if you try to get private land in suburbia in less conservative areas.

Overall, by sharing and explaining. By "killing with kindness" so to speak when we interact with non hunters... I think most folks can find hunting decent. Certainly a lot more "newbies" are coming in from the point of view that they can spend time in nature and bring home super healthy food, also more women, those demographic shifts in the hunting population likely lead to more acceptance - SLOWLY - in future years.

Ill admit this... I used to go into interactions with non hunters defensively. And I found that lead to my responses or communication fostering defensiveness in them as well - that's a negative. I've really tried to imagine I'm talking to my non hunting parents or sister or friends now. So I approach it with curiosity, humbleness and as open a mind as I can muster at the moment. So far, that makes a difference.

From: Jaquomo
24-Dec-22
Great post, Will. I was at a Christmas party last night with only one other hunter besides my wife and I, and he only hunted pheasants as a kid. My wife told them all about the deer she shot a couple weeks ago, the hunt, her excitement, and how we process it ourselves. There was no antagonism, no snide remarks. Only honest questions about her experience and how we cook our venison. We also talked about the future impact of wolves on the local moose they all love.

I doubt any of those folks will be picking up a weapon to hunt. But I can pretty much guarantee that their perception of hunting is positive. That's what we need, especially in referendum states.

When hundreds of popular Hollywood stars and musicians "come out" and start extolling the wonders of the hunting lifestyle, proclaiming they did not "choose" to be hunters but instead were born that way, then maybe hunting will start being cool in the mainstream. Until then, we can make positive impressions one nonhunter at a time.

From: jjs
24-Dec-22
I do not wear my hunting clothes or display anything until I get to the course of hunting, times change and less visibility is good including hunting decals on the back truck windows.

From: Catscratch
24-Dec-22
I've taken a lot of people on their first fishing trip. Introduced shooting to a ton of people who have never held a gun before. Fed people deer and morel mushrooms who had never eaten something that wasn't farmed. The vast majority of people that have never experienced these things are either afraid, or never had opportunity. Also have introduced a bunch of people to dove hunting. Let a kid whose never shot at something before burn through 3 boxes of shells at those little rockets and they'll be asking about deer hunting in no time. People love these things after they've tried them.

To change things the average person needs to understand that holding and shooting a gun isn't the scariest thing in the world. They need to understand that when an animal dies it isn't like looking Bambi in the eyes as it's life fades and it says something sappy with it's dieing breath. They simply need to have someone introduce them to it and make it safe and enjoyable.

Do I think we are on the right track, and if not will it change? No. Those of us that can afford to hunt aren't exactly eager to share our leases or named trailcam bucks with a newbie, let alone several newbies. Giving these people a chance is a sacrifice most appear to be unwilling to make. Being discreet and pleasant about hunting may keep someone from becoming an anti but we need to invite those same people over for an experience before they will become pro.

From: gflight
24-Dec-22
I have seen alot more interest in hunting and self sufficiency since the big drama we had a year or two ago.

.

I talk straight forward. Gut piles feed other animals. If someone wastes meat by leaving a carcass I give my view on those "winners" but it also feeds other animals.

Would "they" rather see distemper or CWD "bodies" because wildlife is not managed.

I will never hide from the public. But I won't be a "Ted" either. If they don't see things about hunting they may never ask questions and just believe what the media tells them...

From: RK
24-Dec-22
G How does managing wildlife Control distemper or CWD

24-Dec-22
Great post catscratch, Lou, Timex, and Will.

From: Rocky D
25-Dec-22
“ Ok, Rocky, let's hear some suggestions that have been proven to work.”

Jaq, how effective is what you are suggesting continuing to work and attract new hunters.

I don’t understand why an intelligent man like yourself would continue to advocate for a one dimensional that is slowly failing over time.

Know one said that we can’t continue doing what has been advocated for the seventy and something else!

Identifying the problem doesn’t mean that you have a problem but to continue on the same path is self inflicted suicide!

“ I doubt any of those folks will be picking up a weapon to hunt. But I can pretty much guarantee that their perception of hunting is positive. That's what we need, especially in referendum states.”

What you need is not to be a referendum state! Advocate for biological game management versus the people choosing what is best!

Wow, that would be a different approach for hunters to get politically involved!

Again, you would rather bicker with other hunters and take different opinions as personal attacks instead of trying to come up with solutions to the problem!

What you are advocating is the least that we can and should do!

From: DonVathome
25-Dec-22
Out of sight out of mind is easy to do, and will help not swing the 80% to anti. Helping them see the benefits of hunting is even better. In college my friends and I would plan large rafting trips to WV. I always made sure I have enough backstrap from a tasty doe to bring. I marinaded it and took a time to trim cook it properly. Some years I served 30 people, almost none of which hunted. Many times I had people approach me, often woman and thank me and were impressed I took the time and effort. At times it lead to questions about hunting - good curious questions. I like to think that I gave a few people a good impression of a hunter.

There are not a lot of organic ways to open communication with the 80%, but when we can we have a rare opportunity.

Times are changing and we need to sway the 80% far more then we did just 20 years ago.

From: 2Wild Bill
25-Dec-22
Who should we blame for roadkill, the largest volume of dead animals people see?

25-Dec-22
I think it is best to use common sense and not act and look like uneducated Bubbas. We will mostly lose the battle to hunt many species in mass, just hope to slow the progression. I have no use for pictures of dead animals plastered on social media, I think it is dumb. Out of sight, out of mind works for me, that is how the wolf gains so much love.

From: DanaC
25-Dec-22
Roadkill is an opportunity to point out the adverse effects of over-population of the animals, the role of hunters in managing deer populations to healthy levels etc. etc.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Dec-22
Rocky, I’m quite sure Lou, and others here, have tried the only suggestion you’ve offered so far (get politically involved). I’m really not sure why you are calling Lou out. From my perspective he’s been a true ambassador of hunting. What have you done?

Matt

From: Rocky D
25-Dec-22
GG, Lou doesn’t need your help and I haven’t said that he’s not been an ambassador for hunting.

As for calling him out he simply replied to my comment in the same way as always on this topic and I just wonder why he continues with the same mantra. I am by no means trying to disrespect Lou and I value his comments!

Let’s see other than being certified bowhunting instructor With many hours of instruction, being a voting member of the Commanding General’s wildlife advisory committee, and I have taken many people hunting for their very first time.

As a matter fact, I have taken one of these young guys who is home on leave from Ft Campbell hunting everyday this week to include providing cold weather clothes for him to be able to hunt in the current temperatures!

The last two years he’s asked for hunting trips for Christmas presents and tomorrow he’s going alligator hunting!

Now, do you want to how many bows and and firearms that I have given as graduation and birthday gifts?

I can also attest to the fact that some of these individuals are hunting guides, trap animals professionally, have deer tracking dogs, and have killed world class animals with a bow.

I haven’t ever sold a bow but instead I give them away to people to get into bow hunting since you asked!

From: Jaquomo
25-Dec-22
Rocky, if your solution is to not live in a referendum state, that rules out 23 states. That is the weakest "solution" offered for any problem, ever. You live in a vaccum, so you don't understand what goes on in the real world.

So I'll ask again - what is your solution, besides moving? If you have a brilliant strategy you should make all the state DNRs aware of it, because they are out of answers, according to the public outreach officials from numerous states I interviewed for an article. In CO they have basically given up on youth recruitment because almost all stop hunting when they turn 18, according to license sales. Instead, they are now targeting 30 somethings for recruitment.

Yes, I have been politically involved, speak at public meetings, published point-counterpoint columns in the Denver Post (500K circulation), attend and speak at Sportsmans Roundtables, contribute to organizations fighting the battles, etc.. I do everything I can to positively influence nonhunting voters. But when only about 4% of the voting public is comprised of hunters, our voices are squeaks compared to the roars of the media, the entertainment industry, Dem politicians and the huge money from out of state anti-hunting billionaires and foundations like Tides.

So when you say "politically involved", what do you mean? What will that do to recruit new hunters. And what has been your level of "political involvement" to promote hunting? As I said before we don't need to "change the minds" of nonhunters. They already support us. We need to do what we can to NOT change their minds, which was the premise of the OP. Your logic on this has been all over the map.

I simply made a statement based on supportable facts. You came after me for it. That does not constitute "bickering" from my end. But I will continue to defend my beliefs when challenged.

Have a Merry Christmas.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Dec-22
Rocky, introducing newbies to hunting and giving them equipment is admirable. I hope we’ve all done that.

But, that’s not a resume of political hunting accomplishments. I don’t have a resume of those either. But, Lou does. He deserves more respect than you showed him earlier in this thread, IMO.

And more importantly, Merry Christmas, my friend

Matt

From: Rocky D
25-Dec-22
GG, Lou doesn’t need your help and I haven’t said that he’s not been an ambassador for hunting.

As for calling him out he simply replied to my comment in the same way as always on this topic and I just wonder why he continues with the same mantra. I am by no means trying to disrespect Lou and I value his comments!

Let’s see other than being certified bowhunting instructor With many hours of instruction, being a voting member of the Commanding General’s wildlife advisory committee, and I have taken many people hunting for their very first time.

As a matter fact, I have taken one of these young guys who is home on leave from Ft Campbell hunting everyday this week to include providing cold weather clothes for him to be able to hunt in the current temperatures!

The last two years he’s asked for hunting trips for Christmas presents and tomorrow he’s going alligator hunting!

Now, do you want to how many bows and and firearms that I have given as graduation and birthday gifts?

I can also attest to the fact that some of these individuals are hunting guides, trap animals professionally, have deer tracking dogs, and have killed world class animals with a bow.

I haven’t ever sold a bow but instead I give them away to people to get into bow hunting since you asked!

From: Jaquomo
25-Dec-22
I replied with the same mantra (hunting will never be cool, it is an anathema to today's societal norms, not considered cool by young girls, trying to not offend nonhunting voters) because they are verifiable facts, and accepted by every professional in the wildlife field. They will all tell you that not offending nonhunting voters is critical to the future of hunting. Not sure why this is such a trigger for you, but it is what it is.

Your solution (take someone hunting, give a kid a bow, deeam of some fantasy that hunting will turn from being perceived as kind of icky by kids, into being Super Cool, etc..) is admirable and we all do it. But there is also verifiable data to show that it isn't working. Hunter numbers continue to drop. Very few kids keep hunting after age 18. That's not debatable. The license sales across the country prove it.

If you can't accept facts, then there is a bigger problem.

From: Rocky D
25-Dec-22
Jaq, I’m not disagreeing, I am just saying that we will continue on the same path if we don’t do more but you would rather shoot the messenger and attack the person!

Merry Christmas!

From: Jaquomo
25-Dec-22
Rocky, we're on the same page. I simply pointed out the fact that hunting will never be perceived as "cool", and you went after me. You then tried the absurd comparison between gay acceptance and hunting acceptance. I never attacked you, only your ideas because they can't be supported with facts. You somehow seem to be against the concept of not offending nonhunting voters, which is really puzzling, but whatever.

Have a Merry Christmas

From: DanaC
25-Dec-22
We will continue to lose hunters not because of 'politics' but because of changing demographics. Less people living in 'rural' areas vs urban or suburban areas. People have less exposure to farming, ranching etc. - and that includes the hunting 'lifestyle.' Land is sub-divided into housing and industrial use and hunting opportunity is reduced further.

Kids grow up never seeing an animal killed, skinned and processed. They do grow up thinking that video games and social media are important. I don't see these trends changing for the better. BUT we still have to do our best to preserve what we have. And part of that - the topic here - is 'image management'.

From: gflight
25-Dec-22
"G How does managing wildlife Control distemper or CWD."

.

Reducing populations of deer and racoons which are prone to CWD and distemper helps prevent spread of those diseases.

I would say to a non Hunter "you wouldn't want Spot to get distemper because of too many racoons. Mother Nature is not pretty when she controls populations. You should always support good biologically sound conservation programs in your state."

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