Contributors to this thread:
Baldwin is charged
Involuntary manslaughter. It’s about time. I hope he goes to jail.
The person who belongs in jail is the weapons 'expert' who didn't make good and bleeping sure that no live ammo was loaded in any gun there.
This will be a case of throwing each other under the bus.
It doesn’t matter. If I hand you a gun and tell you it’s not loaded. Then you point the gun at someone and kill them. Claiming stupidity doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for that persons death.
A half-decent public defender will be able to get him off this. But the weapons expert is in big trouble.
It may very well absolve him depending on what the jury says. He is not being charged as Baldwin the actor. The fact he is the producer and has broader responsibility fir the whole deal is why he is being charged. If that was just another actor he could have pleaded out for probation like the other guy and only the armorer would have been up on manslaughter.
He's a liberal elitist azzhole but it's not his responsibility.Hes the producer with the deepest pockets.It will be settled out of court by his insurance company.
He pulled the trigger. There were mistakes on every front. But, Baldwin is responsible at the top. Followed closely by whomever was in charge of making sure the rounds were blanks.
4nolz: Two separate issues. The azzhole is being charged with a Crime. Deep pockets and insurance companies will get involved with the expected Civil suit.
Baldwin will likely not go to jail and will probably just pay whatever financial fine comes with it.
The weapons expert isn't to blame and would have to be proven in court beyond all doubt they knowingly and maliciously intended the death to happen the way it did.
I can't stand the guy. With that said movies are made everyday with actors point guns and pull the trigger when pointed at the camera. I still think the person that is most responsible is who ever let live ammo on set and put in gun. I'd be ok if they locked up 90% of the Hollywood folks and threw away the key, but this is a tough one.
Knowing and malicious are not elements of involuntary manslaughter
HDE, i'm no attorney, but what you're describing is murder (malicious intent). They're being charged with involuntary manslaughter (accident or negligence)
The person that allowed the live ammo on set should be charged. What I don't know is when they do these shooting scenes, if they are supposed to not point at the person in the movie they are shooting at in the movie?
He is responsible for the gun. he as using a gun should of checked it himself. When I get handed a gun the first thing I always do is check the chamber. And a revolver is even easyer to see a round in the gun it doesn't sit behind the barrel. Easy to see . I hand you a gun and tell you it's not loaded and you point it and kill someone who is going to jail. He is responsible for the gun if it's in his hands. Loaded are not.
He is responsible for the gun. he as using a gun should of checked it himself. When I get handed a gun the first thing I always do is check the chamber. And a revolver is even easyer to see a round in the gun it doesn't sit behind the barrel. Easy to see . I hand you a gun and tell you it's not loaded and you point it and kill someone who is going to jail. He is responsible for the gun if it's in his hands. Loaded are not. . The guy that robs the store and shoots the worker, the cops show up and the robber says my brother Owens the gun he told me it was empty?
"Involuntary manslaughter is the unintentional killing of a person while committing a misdemeanor criminal offense. Involuntary manslaughter can also occur if a person is engaging in a lawful act but unintentionally kills someone by being negligent or not exercising due care."
regardless of whether or not the armorist screwed up, if baldwin pointed the gun at the cinematographer and pulled the trigger it is certainly negligent or not exercising due care. hard to argue that. i wouldn't be surprised if he pleads guilty and gets probation.
Number one rule to fire arms always check it and make sure it’s not loaded. And never point the barrel at anyone.
I think it's safe to say that Alec Baldwin has fewer fans here than Josh Bowmar. However all our combined opinions concerning his guilt or innocence really mean squat. He'll be tried by a jury of his peers, which would be impossible here on Bowsite. After hearing all the evidence I'm guessing those 12 jurors will decide his punishment if any.
With that said, I'm thinking that SOB wishes now he'd move out of the country after all.
When John Wick or the random 6 guys he's fighting empty 30 round mags in a scene, I doubt the actors unload and reload every round in the mag before the camera rolls to ensure they are blanks.
Not saying Baldwin doesn't have some responsibility. I would like to know how live ammo got near the set, mixed with blanks, and then in the gun.
If the gun went off the first time he pulled the trigger it wasn't a accident . You just don't drop a bullet in a SA and it go off the next time you half to spin and align the loaded cylinder , to rotate and go off next. I still wonder who loaded. And why . There's more to it . You half to wonder why was this women really killed. Who really loaded the gun. Who could be hiding what. .
In the end he will be sentenced to 2 years of double secret probation
"He is responsible for the gun. he as using a gun should of checked it himself. When I get handed a gun the first thing I always do is check the chamber. And a revolver is even easyer to see a round in the gun it doesn't sit behind the barrel. Easy to see . I hand you a gun and tell you it's not loaded and you point it and kill someone who is going to jail. He is responsible for the gun if it's in his hands. Loaded are not."
If you were an actor, and were the person that was going to be on the receiving end of a gun shot, would you trust some random actor to check the gun? I sure as hell would not. I'd insist that the actor handled the gun as little as possible and that the armorer was the only one to load the weapon.
AB is 100% responsible for what happened during the movie production as he is the producer. Luckily this trial will be held in New Mexico and not NYC. Still, I wouldn't hope for justice given that the new gold standard for the demarxist is based on "intent". As I understand the victim H. Hutchins was also beginning work on a documentary concerning pedophilia and human trafficking that had the Clintons as accomplices. AB is an avowed Clintonista.
If your given a prop gun that is supposed to be loaded with blank dummy rounds but instead has live rounds I don't see how the actor is responsible.
This is a movie set folks basic gun safety rules don't apply when the movie script says to shoot the bad guy.
This is 100% on the movie set gun handler ....
I agree, the weapons expert is in trouble BUT he still should have checked the cylinder before ever pointing it at ANYTHING not intended to be destroyed, especially a person... I cant even imaging playing around with firearms loaded with intended blanks and pointing them toward live human beings... Anything bad that can happen likely eventually will happen playing with gunpowder...
I'd assume he's being charged as the producer. Similar to how I would be charged if an employee of mine died because I failed to ensure safety procedures were in place.
As long as it makes his life a hell for a while, I'm good...
I highly doubt every actor that shoots a scene with a firearm removes all the blank rounds and checks them before the scene starts. We are talking about filming a movie, not showing your buddy a new gun you bought while sitting in your living room.
I highly doubt every actor that shoots a scene with a firearm removes all the blank rounds and checks them before the scene starts. We are talking about filming a movie, not showing your buddy a new gun you bought while sitting in your living room.
Bet they do now!!
I agree as the producer he assumes responsibility, as an actor though I don't believe he is wrong for not checking first.
I agree that as an actor he has no responsibility to check the gun. But as a producer he’s responsible for the safety of everyone on that movie set. It falls on him as much as the armorer. He also did himself no favors going on national tv and saying that he didn’t pull the trigger and takes no blame whatsoever.
These same enlightened liberals that bash we responsible gun owners. Make their living faking and dressing in costumes. Playing make believe with weapons. Have the Gaul to preach about gun violence, gun safety, gun rights. To us that have had years of real training.
Are the same ones that could benefit most from an NRA membership and a basic 1 day NRA safety class.
I’m guessing the firearm “professionals” they hired don’t know squat about firearms. And looked down their nose at traditional firearm safety pros. After all these type of people are smarter than the Hicks that carry guns everyday.
Who amongst us would hand these people even a fake unloaded firearm.
And I certainly would never stand there with one of those geniuses waving a pistol around without checking it safe, myself first.
Lot of reasons to take tv/movie gun work with a large grain of salt.
There's a lot of finger pointing among the armorers involved. There's a lot of speculation and guessing here about the training of the armorers. It was reported that guy providing the guns did not provide live rounds. Then they searched his shop and found live rounds even though his business is providing prop guns to movies.
It will all come out in court.
If your given a prop gun that is supposed to be loaded with blank dummy rounds but instead has live rounds I don't see how the actor is responsible. This is a movie set folks basic gun safety rules don't apply when the movie script says to shoot the bad guy.
This. This isn't your local range. This is a movie set with what are supposed to prop pieces and dummy ammo. They are literally being instructed to break everyone of the basic rules of firearm safety on the set for that reason. I'm not sure Alec Baldwin would have even known how to check the gun or what a live round even looked like.
"If your given a prop gun that is supposed to be loaded with blank dummy rounds but instead has live rounds I don't see how the actor is responsible."
because he pointed the gun at someone that he never should have pointed it at...and pulled the trigger...there was no reason for the gun to be pointed at her...they werent even filming...he was rehearsing a scene.
Was the empty brass checked for prints?
back when this happened there were a lot of reports that there were many instances of of sloppy process and procedures with live rounds, plinking at lunch, etc. They are just reports, likely by people like us who know nothing about the facts first hand, but like to pretend we do, but if those reports are valid negligence via gross process deviation will be a lot easier to get a jury to buy into than if this was a one off error by an actor who obviously would never knowingly kill someone in a movie or have any reason to believe there was any potential for an accident.
I thought I read on the fox site the deal before him was 6 months probation, signed already by the DA.
How many of us could shoot and kill someone and get that deal? I'd sign that in a heartbeat. We'll see if his giant ego leaves any room for common sense in his inflated head.
Altitude Sickness 's Link
The charge is involuntary manslaughter, so I'm sure the penalty wouldn't be too harsh if he was convicted.
Lawyers can spin and twist this case all they want.
Baldwin violated the 1st & 2nd rule of firearm safety. Treat every firearm as if it was loaded. And never point a firearm at anyone . Once the firearm was in his hand , he, and he alone was responsible for safe handling of the firearm.
How did John Wayne or Clint Eastwood never fire a live round??? They killed a load of guys in the movies!!
I had the same thought as Glunt.........How does live ammo even get on let alone near the set? How???
There was a lot in the news here in NM when it happened. Baldwin is being charged as being the producer and "the buck stops here". It is my understanding he would be charged just the same even if someone else had pulled the trigger.
According to what was stated on local news, apparently "they" were using live rounds to shoot bottles etc. adjacent to the set during breaks, the weapons master wasn't the only person to load guns, wasn't the only person to be in control/contact/storage of guns, etc. There were apparently numerous acts of negligence, and as producer it falls under his responsibility.
Baldwin is an arrogant leftist..so n so on. But, I would think most actors trust the weapons handler/expert to check the weapons on set. The weapons expert should be held responsible. I don't care for Baldwin but I think this is messed up.
Squash.....jg420 beat me to it..........it's a movie set, watch any western, war, or cop show and the 1st & 2nd rules of firearm safety have been violated literally millions of times.
If you can't understand this I'd guess you can't enjoy a good John Wayne movie.
Well he is under the gun and the prosecutors are gunning for him.
I had heard the head armorer (the young lady in charge of the firearms) was pinking off set with friends with that revolver during their lunch break, and they suspect that is where the overlooked live round came from...
This is the longest sentence in bowsite history.
“ They are just reports, likely by people like us who know nothing about the facts first hand, but like to pretend we do, but if those reports are valid negligence via gross process deviation will be a lot easier to get a jury to buy into than if this was a one off error by an actor who obviously would never knowingly kill someone in a movie or have any reason to believe there was any potential for an accident.”
Based on what my wife told me, both Alec and his hired weapons handler should go to jail. I’m good with that.
The one thing that Baldwin should have done is kept his big mouth shut and NOT constantly profess that, "I never pulled the trigger". That lie destroys any other credibiity he may have had. Yes Al, you DID pull the trigger. Short of a mechanical issue with the weapon, that's the ONLY way a revolver of that sort can be fired. You can cock it without the trigger, but you damn sure cannot release that cocked hammer unless the trigger is engaged.
The armorer on the set was not inexperienced and I have to believe that bringing live ammo to any movie set is an industry wide NO-NO! It's interesting that we really haven't heard much from her. We are going to hear a lot from her in the trial.
Yep. LOTS of questions on this one!
And in this day and age of high tech computer gizmos, why do they even use real guns on movie sets anymore? They can dub in all the "gun" sounds they want. All it has to do is LOOK like a gun.
“ Baldwin is an arrogant leftist..so n so on. But, I would think most actors trust the weapons handler/expert to check the weapons on set. The weapons expert should be held responsible. I don't care for Baldwin but I think this is messed up.”
While I generally agree, there are other actors who have learned how to check their weapons to confirm that the weapon is in the condition they are told. Almost like you or I would do in a gun store when being handed an “unloaded” weapon.
Baldwin obviously did not do and got right to blaming everyone else. That just a didn’t sit right with me.
Maybe if he had just moved to a Canada when Trump was elected like he said he would, none of this would have happened.
Yes and another twist the assistant director he is already pleading guilty the news reported. Assistant Director handed Baldwin the gun.
The so called weapons expert was a lackey hired by Baldwin, didn't have or want to spend the money in a quality armoer, first mistake. Secondly, the most basic gun handling rule of all, never trust someone who hands you a gun , always check it . Third, never point a gun at something your not willing to blow away and in the movie bus a real firearm cannot be point at a person, they have to have a dummycrap pistol ifs it's pointed at a human. Baldwin is guilty of neglegence and will be found guilty. No way do they convict the armoer and not Baldwin. Now, what kind of time does he do is a different matter, again it's going to be equal to the armoer , if not it will be the celeb gets a break and the common person gets screwed. He might think,of cutting a deal and get his time over with.
I’m guessing he was supposed to point the gun at and shoot another actor with blanks during filming of a scene, right? I wonder who that other actor was and if there was any foul play involved to get the live ammo into the gun. I’ve never heard this being discussed but it seems like a possibility….
Will be interesting to see the evidence. Prior to this Baldwin filed suit against the armored and the armored filed suit against the ammo supplier.
Any decent defense attorney could win this one drunk. Once again publicity stunt charging something you cannot prove.
Sounds like it's going to be one big case of "Dindu Nuffin's" !
Again, that is the big question here, how and why was live ammo brought onto a movie set that involves shooting scenes?
I read this morning that the armorer took a plea deal that includes a suspended sentence and probation
I think it was a deliberate act to cause harm by someone on the set. Why else would you bring live ammo to a movie set. Maybe they wanted to kill Baldwin but it got put in the wrong gun.
ILBow288 - No, it wasn't attempted murder. Malicious intent can still be wanting to harm someone. Setting a tripwire to make someone fall to break their wrist or arm is malicious intent to do harm. I should've used a different conclusion instead of using the word "death". Oh well, the sun came up anyway and nobody got hurt or died...
The question remains, why was a live round even allowed to be on set with a bunch of "pacifists" against guns in the first place?
Seems the facts are that he shot the bullet that killed the young woman. All the special circumstances involved in making a movie don’t make them immune to laws of our society. Horrible and sad accident.
NPR did a story about this that would be worth reading for many here. There is supposed to be training in the set. The first rule is to treat every gun as if it were loaded. Actors are trained to not point weapons directly at people - the camera angles are used to make it appear as they do. And live ammunition is never to be on the set.
There are many unreported facts in this case. Something I was thinking of is, given how many movies have been made with people shooting guns in the last hundred years from war movies to cowboys to just overall killing people, only two gun related deaths come to mind, Brandon Lee was killed when a blank fired a 44 slug that was caught in the barrel (I don’t believe charges were filed) and another actor that was playing Russian roulette and fired a blank at his temple causing traumatic brain bleeding.
Other than that it appears that having a gun fired at you in a movie may be safer than flying.
Wally very good point. This should be investigated more. Why was live Ammo on the movie set. Who brought it there? Was this bullet meant for someone else? This should never happen on a movie set. Maybe these actors need to take a hunters safety test for use of fire arms. Or use a gun that can not fire a bullet. Hmmm. 5 years? For taking a life. In a true accident scenario. Maybe.
What a idiot hope he goes to jail
It’s surprising to me that any of the weapons used in the making of ANY movie, are capable of firing live ammo.
I'd sentence him to the Hallmark Channel for life!!
Seriously, what an unfortunate accident and loss of a life that should never have happened and could have easily been prevented.
"Actors are trained to not point weapons directly at people - the camera angles are used to make it appear as they do. And live ammunition is never to be on the set."
thats why its not nearly as much of a slam dunk for the defense as some people might think. negligent homicide only requires unintentionally killing someone by being negligent or not exercising due care...thats a pretty low bar in this case. if he was charged with murder...no chance in hell. negligent homicide...not exercising due care...big difference.
Timex, Yes, you are correct, too bad someone had to die to show the lax firearm handling on movie sets. But are you saying because it’s a movie set it’s OK to be careless handling a firearm ? That’s what it sounds to me.
If you are a firearms owner and a hunter I would never hunt with you. I guess you do not understand, that firearms can be deadly if handled carelessly, even on a movie set.
You or I do not know if John Wayne and Clint movie sets ever had live rounds ? If they did they were just damn lucky and irresponsible.
I don't see how it's possible to claim in such a broad manner that there is lax handling with firearms on movie sets. That's an unfounded claim considering most, if not all, of the people here have never been involved with firearms on a movie set.
This and a few instances in the past are horrible examples of lax handling but should not be used to say that is a general policy in the movie industry.
No One should be exempt from the law. But he does know people that are.
Wouldn’t it be good if Baldwin got about 20 years in the slammer? His Biden impersonation would be perfected by the time he got out.
This discussion has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime (to paraphrase Thomas Paine). Some of you are so driven by hate that you won't even look at facts or consider what isn't known.
I sure hope you don't consider yourselves Christians because that I see nothing Christian-like in that behavior.
Phil- what does Christianity have to do with Timex's opinion? Seems you're a bit off yourself. "Take the mote' out of your own eye first".
I wasn’t talking about Timex. My eye is fine.
[The so called weapons expert was a lackey hired by Baldwin, didn't have or want to spend the money in a quality armoer, first mistake. Secondly, the most basic gun handling rule of all, never trust someone who hands you a gun , always check it . Third, never point a gun at something your not willing to blow away and in the movie bus a real firearm cannot be point at a person, they have to have a dummycrap pistol ifs it's pointed at a human. Baldwin is guilty of neglegence and will be found guilty. No way do they convict the armoer and not Baldwin. Now, what kind of time does he do is a different matter, again it's going to be equal to the armoer , if not it will be the celeb gets a break and the common person gets screwed. He might think,of cutting a deal and get his time over with.]
As a 40 year safety professional veteran, I have to agree with most of this statement. As soon as you take possession of the firearm, check it. The "I didn't know it was loaded" defense won't fly with the friends and family of the deceased. If I was on the jury, wouldn't fly with me either.
A good team in the entertainment industry (something I did get involved with a few times in my career), involves a risk management review of the storyboard, movie set, stunts, etc. Following all the rules of firearm safety certainly would be part of that reasonable risk management review. Sounds like they did a poor job of it, someone lost their life as a result. Basically unacceptable.
How can you be so sure if the outcome when you have so few of the facts? I’m not defending Baldwin, I’m defending the legal process. You may be right but it seems very premature to know what any jury would say.
Phil you’re 100% right but the whole Internet is based on premature opinions and uninformed and biased perspectives so that’s what we deal with.
Isn’t that the truth. And it is such a huge industry making so much money but we are the pawns.
Involuntary Manslaughter is a 4th degree felony in New Mexico. 4th degree felonies are punishable by UP TO 18 months in prison and a $5,000 fine.
Most here are missing the technicalities as reported in the news. Baldwin is being charged because as producer he's responsible for set safety. There's a lot more responsibility than him simply being an actor who mistakenly pulled the trigger with a live round in the chamber. He's going to be held to a higher standard as the producer.
He can't be held to any higher standard than the maximum punishment allowed by statute for the offense he is charged with and then found guilty of.
Most here are missing the technicalities as reported in the news. Baldwin is being charged because as producer he's responsible for set safety.
Do you have a link to something that says this? Color me skeptical that the charges have anything to do with him being the producer. It may be something the prosecution argues (he should have a heightened awareness on set safety). But I highly doubt that's why he's being charged. There are six named producers for the movie. No other producer is being charged. I think it's pretty clear he's being charged because he was holding the gun when this went down.
It seems to me that if he is being charged as the producer, it would be a civil suit and not a criminal one?
Think Trump is doing a happy dance. :))
You pointed it, you pulled the trigger. End of story.
Of course, but Baldwin says he DIDN'T pull the trigger, which unless the pistol had a mechanical malfunction, is a lie, which makes him even more culpable.
Ok , your friend hands you a gun and says it’s unloaded, then you point it at him and you kill him.
Your totally at fault for not checking to see if it’s loaded.
Trust no one, period.
He had the port unity to have the cameras stop and check .
They used the gun to do some “ plinking”
Squash.......... Your nothing more to me than a name on my phone just so you understand that.
I will however defend my gun safety record. My father a marine corps officer, was on the marine corps skeet shooting team and personally won the NC state championship twice. I started shooting skeet and hunting at a young age , at 18 years old I had the 3rd highest skeet average out of 60 shooters at bull run shooting center west of northern VA. The deer in this pic were killed doing man deer drives with rifles, we did this every weekend for 20 years. Never once in my life have I come close to unintentionally killing a person. 50 plus years of competition shooting and hunting without incident.
Kinda hard to pass judgment on a name on the internet brother...or at least it is for me !!!
This is just a thought and I have basically zero experience with blanks- dummy rounds. How do these compare visually to wadcutters ???
Oh Yes, the judge may sentence above the maximum and they do it often.
Plea deal? Hard to say. Guy believes gun did it not himself.
Someone has to pay. This woman is dead and the guy with smoking gun was standing over her.
No Attorney is going to flip this in favor of the Evil gun as the culprit.
The crimp of a blank looks nothing like a wadcutter.
One of the 10 Commandments of handling a gun.... " Treat every gun as if it were a loaded gun". I say throw him in jaii.
This seems so easy to argue as a lawyer. He was handling what he believed was a prop gun. I'm sure no one here has ever broken the cardinal rules of gun safety when handling a toy gun, right? You've never pointed a bb gun, air soft gun, nerf gun, etc at another person, have you?
It's not a prop gun, its a real firearm which can fire live ammo. No, I do not point firearms at people including bb and airsoft guns
Meh...It's Santa Fe...he'll walk free!
^^^^ Yep. If you think Mary Carmack-Altwies, the demarxist liberal lesbian is going to severely prosecute A.B. well.........The script is set, and the actors are ready to do their part to see that justice is done.
"This seems so easy to argue as a lawyer. He was handling what he believed was a prop gun. I'm sure no one here has ever broken the cardinal rules of gun safety when handling a toy gun, right? You've never pointed a bb gun, air soft gun, nerf gun, etc at another person, have you?"
I agree it seems a slam dunk case to argue in court, although from the opposite side. Involuntary manslaughter means he was negligent and led to the death of another. Doesn't mean he didn't mean to do it. Doesn't mean others aren't at fault as well. Just means he didn't take the necessary precautions one should and another person is dead now because of it. Should be a text book guilty verdict for both himself and the armorer.
"Should be a text book guilty verdict for both himself and the armorer."
That's how I see it too. And add to it his denial that he ever, "...pulled the trigger", and his credibility is weakened even more. I mean, if he says he didn't pull it when he obviously did, then how do we believe him when he says he didn't mean to hurt anyone?
So now all the folks that were our resident medical experts for Covid and law enforcement experts during the insurrection are judge and jury for this case.
How about letting the legal process play out, evidence presented and a jury decision first? Then you can all tell them where the legal system worked or failed.
"So now all the folks that were our resident medical experts for Covid and law enforcement experts during the insurrection are judge and jury for this case.
How about letting the legal process play out, evidence presented and a jury decision first? Then you can all tell them where the legal system worked or failed"
Phil Magistro for the win!
Not jumping to second hand ill informed is no fun. What is the purpose in that.
"So now all the folks that were our resident medical experts for Covid and law enforcement experts during the insurrection are judge and jury for this case. Unbelievable."
wasnt it you that said a half decent public defender will be able to get baldwin off?
Good point Rick. Phil jumped to a conclusion and shared an opinion. That not what we do on the internet.
Bigeasy, I’m sure you are aware that because a lot of others have done it. Or even that I didn’t mean too, and now feel really, really bad is not a defense in our legal system.
The reason This particular actor is drawing so much fire. Is his decades long war on legal gun ownership. He is a shining example of a liberal anti-gun zealot, that thinks he knows best. because he is the smartest one in the room.
His arrogance is what led to this negligent death. Since he is the Almighty, standing on high, telling us peons, that we do not need firearms. in his mind he did not need basic firearm training, or God forbid a legit NRA professional on the site.
I am very doubtful that he will get the same level of punishment you or I would. He’ll pay a fine, do 30 days and do public service announcements about the evils of firearms. And then go back to business. dressing up in costumes, and record himself shooting and playing a tough guy with a gun. While scolding we commoners to turn in our weapons.
This is why we despise hypocrites from the Media, Hollywood and DC
I personally don’t care if he’s found guilty or not, as long as he and his ilk stay out of the Personnal protection conversation. And leave it to people that live in the real world and know what they are talking about.
Funny part is two folks were shot one killed. Where are the charges for the man who was wounded as well. This is a very strange case on the AG's / prosecutors part. Also, a strange case made worse by a guy who gave many interviews after the act. To add there was a civil payment already made out b.y A. B. Very unusual case but it must be dealt with as you cant have a Hollywood that get a judicial precedent that says "since your on a movie set and you kill someone you get a pass". The charges are kinda iffy too. Why is he not just charged with negligent homicide? Or, is this a part to get him to plead down to that? I mean he did willfully kill and wound these two people. Bh
Yes I shared an opinion. And I may be wrong. But I didn’t let my hatred of a person let me disregard any of the reported facts as more than a few here did.
Some of you have been so brainwashed that your hatred of anything you’ve been told is liberal clouds every decision you make. It must be tough going through life hating and condemning 50% of the people that didn’t vote the way you thought they should.
Now I’m done here. You guys keep defending the indefensible and I’m sure America will be a better place. For those of you in Rio Linda, that’s sarcasm.
One thing we know - for the first time in history, a revolver fired itself without the trigger being pulled. If other firearms learn to do this, we will have a big problem on our hands.
Lol Jaq. I do think his argument of “I didn’t pull the trigger” could come back to bite him. Clearly he’s lying about that.
If it looks like a fish, swims like a fish, and smells like a fish, it's probably a fish !!! There's definitely something fishy about this...
Horn hustler says 2 people were shot ??? I haven't concerned myself with this drama but this is the first I've heard of a 2nd victim.
Also the media is saying that in all of Hollywood movie production, Brandon Lee and the Baldwin incident are the only two gun shot related fatalities ever... I have a hard time believing this statement, however if it's true, that's an incredible safety record.
No, I do not point firearms at people including bb and airsoft guns
Well you shouldn’t look into what people do with airsoft guns, Orion. Sounds like you can’t handle it.
His arrogance is what led to this negligent death.
Whatever your opinions about Alec Baldwin, this statement is a huge stretch.
Should be a text book guilty verdict for both himself and the armorer.
I don’t know, Trevor. The consensus of opinion pieces I’ve read from legal experts seem to suggest that this was a bit of overreach and proving that something criminally negligent happened might be difficult for the persecution based on the evidence available (which includes statements that Baldwin asked if the gun was safe and he was told it was cold).
How about letting the legal process play out, evidence presented and a jury decision first?
Hi Phil, meet the Internet.
Horn hustler says 2 people were shot ??? I haven't concerned myself with this drama but this is the first I've heard of a 2nd victim.
Yup, another person was shot. Here’s an opinion piece from Andrew McCarthy at Fox News and he talks about it being curious that the DA didn’t bring charges related to the other person getting hit.
Even a blank round can seriously injure you or kill you if used improperly. So can a lead ball/bullet prop put in front of a blank. There are at least two well-documented cases of that issue in Hollywood. Its a known hazard.
Phil, Hatred ?
Speaking for myself. There is no way I would allow such a minuscule person to drag me down into such a place where I could hate him. That is so petty and immature.
But please enlighten us where liberalism is not a factor in this entire fiasco.
The liberal lackadaisical attitude towards firearms ?
Hiring someone (not just the armorer) based on their sex and sexual orientation instead of Quals?
The media covering him?
The liberal state which he is being tried in. ?
It is all relevant.
This Hippy film cast shoots one movie together and 2 people get shot.
Not bias, Fact
I never would of thought that a real gun would be used in a movie. I always assumes they were using prop guns that only could fire a blank of some sort. I bet he pays a fine and goes on his merry way still saying he never pulled a trigger. I hate it when trigger fairies start setting guns off magically.
“ Horn hustler says 2 people were shot ??? I haven't concerned myself with this drama but this is the first I've heard of a 2nd victim.”
Hmmm, I wonder why that tidbit of information seems to be omitted in most reports of the incident…
The most ironic thing about this thread is Phil implying his opinion, hatred, and bias, the he always expresses when jumping to a conclusion, is superior in intellect.
Thanks Bigeasy I know exactly what airsoft is, if im not playing then I'm not randomly pointing a gun at someone like you suggested. You also stated it was a prop gun which is a 100% false.
"Yes I shared an opinion. And I may be wrong. But I didn’t let my hatred of a person let me disregard any of the reported facts as more than a few here did. Some of you have been so brainwashed that your hatred of anything you’ve been told is liberal clouds every decision you make. It must be tough going through life hating and condemning 50% of the people that didn’t vote the way you thought they should."
this has nothing to do with hating anyone...it has to do with the law. involuntary manslaughter is accidental...it doesnt require intent. the way i see it a woman lost her life because of two acts of negligence...one is that a live bullet was placed in a prop gun...the other is a prop gun was pointed directly at a person that it shouldnt have been and the trigger was pulled. neither were intentional...both were negligent. whether or not a jury will see it that way is a whole other thing...but thinking that baldwin committed involuntary manslaughter...regardless of what you think of him as a person...it totally legitimate. thinking that the only reason a person could come to that conclusion is out of hate is not.
Please take some time and read up on everything that lead up to the day 2 people were negligently shot on the set. Amongst many other unprofessional issues. The Armor was tasked with multiple duties, before during and after firearms were brought out. She complained many times that her entire focus when firearms were being handled should be on firearm safety practices. She was actually scolded for not performing other menial tasks on set by the producers, they told her they didn’t have the money for her to only perform the one job role. This and many other negligent practices to save money are why the Big Cheese of the production and movie is being charged. Pointing and firing the pistol is merely the final act of negligence.
As I understand it the gun was not handed to AB by the armorer but by the asst. director. Thats a loss of chain of custody. I also early on read that live ammo, 45LC, had been brought onto the set for the crew to play around with and target shoot the guns. Why was that allowed and who supplied it? I'll wager it wasn't the armorer. AB is going to do everything he can to see that the blame lies with her, but I don't see that happening. She didn't pull the trigger; she wasn't even on the set at the time of the shooting. She may be negligent but not criminally so. I also understand this was her first solo work as the armorer on a production following her apprenticeship. I can just imagine the intimidation AB may have heaped upon her for following the rules of safety. He'll fight you in the street if you park in the wrong spot right? LOL! I hope this spectacle is televised.
the bullet went completely through the woman and hit the man behind her. he was hospitalized too.
I’m now going out to run my new Sig .45, My new Glock Gen 5, 10mm And a new 12 gauge thru some drills
The only thing in danger will be some paper, wood and dirt
Oh and me for inhaling more PFAS
Here’s my take on it. Did he pull the trigger? Yes. Was he negligent? Yes. Were there others responsible and negligent? Yes. He and others should be held accountable for the action/inaction. Whether I agree or disagree with the outcome of a trial, well, that’s a different story.
Two people were shot. The bullet went thru one and hit the other. I can’t remember which one was fatal and which one was wounded. I haven’t paid that much attention to this case.
Anyone ever watch the training some actors/actresses do with firearms? I’m impressed with some of them. Will Smith, Keanu Reeves, Haley Berry, are just a few.
Unless the prosecutor can prove criminal intent they’re wasting their time. They have to prove that the ammo used was secure and only handled by one person to prove negligence on his part. Reasonable doubt comes into play, did someone slip up and a live round was marked improperly. Do actors consider the firearms being used as weapons or movie props. There is more questions than answers and they shouldn’t charge anyone until they have some concrete evidence.
I don't think involuntary manslaughter requires intent.
"Unless the prosecutor can prove criminal intent they’re wasting their time."
the only thing that has to be proven is negligence...not intent.
Yeah, 45LC penetrating through one person and into another made me think it wasn't light plinking cowboy round...
Darn right. The hole exit hole in her back was very large. The rest of bullet that was torn up hit the second gentleman. Funny how most dont even know what happened.
This charge was obviously made to get a plea. You can find a Jury pretty easily that knows the trigger man has made civil payments already. Won't play well with a jury with a criminal case.
Its a strange case made stranger by a the accused making equally strange statements on camera. Got guilty of Negligent Homicide written all over it.
Good the see the liberal bias oversight here in the open. bh
Phil has a point. The accidents that have happen on Hollywood sets isn't many compared to the movies that have been made. Whether it's Alec Baldwin or whoever, I don't want to see anyone blamed for something they didn't intend to do...a freak accident. Yes, he should have been more safety minded but I'm sure it would be easy to become complacent after years of being on movie sets. I still say that whoever was in charge of the weapon safety would be responsible.
Be clear this was no accident. There is no question that the shooter has culpability. Yes, criminal culpability. There is a huge difference in manslaughter and negligent homicide legally. His statements saying the gun did it not him hurt his case measurably. I would think more charges as to the second party are pending depending on what kind of deal can be agreed to.
If he can say something as flat out, 180 degree false as "I never pulled the trigger", then how can you believe him when he says he didn't mean to kill anyone? Not saying he did mean to necessarily, but you CANNOT go by his word. How can you believe ANYTHING he says about this?
One thing we do know for sure.....he's a liar.
For all practical purposes under New Mexica statute Involuntary Manslaughter and Negligent Homicide have the same legal description as well as the same punishment imposition and are essentially the same.
Woods Walker learn more about the gun. it can go off without pulling the trigger just a little pressure on it when you cock it and it will go off.
If it was a early colt then yes it could go off. But if it was a third gen chances are no, without pulling the trigger it's not likely. Alec Baldwin stated in a taped interview that someone is responsible, but it's not him. Well, as every responsible gun owner knows you never, never point a gun at another person and pull the trigger. Things happen and if anyone if you were to accidentally pull the trigger and kill another person you would be seeing the inside of a prison. The fact that it's a movie set should not matter. He was reckless and considering he ignored the firearms training that was given to others on the set makes him even more reckless.
LB I agree totally just saying it can happen. I have a old 45 that will go off at half cock when pulling trigger. It shouldn't but it does.
The revolver in question has been evaluated and tested to the extreme. They did everything they could to make it go bang w/o pulling the trigger and couldn't. When you have to have the best, Pieta.
My buddy loaded these 45 Colts a bit weak...
My buddy loaded these 45 Colts a bit weak...
Although they say Pietta is as close to Colt as you can get, I think they are junk. If they couldn't get it to fire like Baldwin said, good for them, but my last Pietta lasted 200 shots before the cylinder hand broke so I bought a Ruger. Us gun people familiar with single action revolvers all knew he pulled the trigger and let the hammer go with his thumb. Interesting how the camera person didn't even notice there were shells, whether live,or blanks, looking at them out the business end of the cylinder when the gun was supposed to be completely empty. I don't think they shoot blanks directly at the camera person at close range because unburned powder can be particulate projectiles and blind someone.
You also stated it was a prop gun which is a 100% false.
And you, apparently, don’t know what a prop gun is.
A prop gun is a gun or gun replica that is used primarily by movie and television productions or in theatre performances. As a prop, these guns can be divided into non-firing guns (replicas) and firing guns (firearms).
"I don't want to see anyone blamed for something they didn't intend to do..."
negligence doesn't require intent...even drunk drivers dont intend to kill anyone.
There is a big difference in Manslaughter and Involuntary Manslaughter in most states. I think NM has no negligent homicide code which means one is a felony the other isnt. Boils down to same premise. Manslaughter is and act where person acted without malice. NM Criminal Code; Involuntary Manslaughter is the same as Negligent Homicide in the most other states. So, there is a big difference in sentencing guideline for felonies and higher class misdemeanors. Bh
Bigeasy a true "prop" gun can't fire live ammo it would have blown up in his hand. By the way how is your wrist?
"negligence doesn't require intent...even drunk drivers dont intend to kill anyone."
Yes they don't intend too however, they do make a choice and choices have consequences. And Baldwin made a choice, actual multiple choices. 1st, didn't check the weapon,2 nd. Pointed a real gun at another person and 3rd pulled the trigger. Choices are made and the outcome has consequences, he must pay for his bad, no ,terrible choices. Just as a drunk drivers who kill people go to jail, so must Baldwin if found guilty. The problem with our society is no one wants to assign blame to people for their bad deeds.
I would not get to wrapped up about a Prop weapon and a weapon. They are both weapons my friends. We have had many many WW2 movies made in last 20yrs all with BAR's, Garands, Springifields, Thompson's, and War on Terror movies with all our newer systems. They are all real weapons modified to function with blanks to look and perform as if they were using live munitions.
Can you put live ammo in one and would it fire. Damn right in will and it will blow the end of the barrel where its welded with a gas escape hole, round right at whom evers in front of it. Blow the bolt right out the back at the poor bastard that fired it as well.
A single action Army copy blank firing studio wpn is nothing more than a SAA with a barrel on it with no rifling I would assume. Not built to take the chamber pressures of a real SAA. Will it fire a 45LC down the pipe. Yes sir, bullet was prolly tumbling 6" out the barrel. Prolly why the victim had a huge hole in chest and back.
Symantics about is a wpn a prop wpn is not a factor. They are all weapons. Studios pay big money to do war films to contractors to get this stuff correct. Dale Dye has one such company. Not sure if he does his Weapons Pool and or sub contracts that out. Its a difficult and dangerous job when doing these types of movies. This green headed Armorer in charge of the wpns pool is in a word Skrewd. Bh
Baldwin faces culpability as actor and producer Baldwin was playing the lead role in "Rust" and was taking a producer credit on the film.
"He was the actor that pulled the trigger so certainly he's charged as an actor but also as a producer," Carmack-Altwies said.
"He also had a duty to make sure that the set was safe and we know from our investigation that there had been accidental misfires prior to this."
The prosecutor said investigators discovered "there were people complaining about safety on set." Baldwin, she added, "should have been aware that safety was an issue ... And then, as an actor that day, he should have checked that gun, checked those projectiles."
"He's a liberal elitist azzhole but it's not his responsibility.Hes the producer with the deepest pockets.It will be settled out of court by his insurance company."
EXACTAMUNDO!!! It's always somebody else's fault where a liberal is concerned. Baldwin won't spend 2 minutes in the clink..
"Baldwin won't spend 2 minutes in the clink.
As much as I DESPISE that comment, I wouldn't bet against it....
I wonder how many live rounds were in the cylinder.
At least one that we know of. Maybe ask Alec? Oh wait.....forget it....
New mexico has an interesting law that I hoped they would enforce in this case.
80-100 years ago a poacher killed a game warden and claimed it to be a hunting accident. The poacher got off. To keep that from happening again the legislature passed a law that says the person firing the gun is responsible for where the bullet ends up regardless of intent.
I'm not able to find where I saw that story right now but it certainly would apply to this tragedy. I've wondered why no one brings it up.
"......the person firing the gun is responsible for where the bullet ends up regardless of intent."
EXACTLY! When I was a kid, I went from playing with toy guns, to shooting real guns in about 2 year period 60 years ago. And what you describe in your quote was imbedded in my brain and muscle memory forever. That's a great law New Mexico made!
Well, the director was shot. The assistant director already plea'd out to the negligent use of a firearm. Halls is going to testify to the agreement made. Halls was guy who handed firearm to the Shooter and said Cold weapon. he's getting suspended sentence and six months probation on a non felony charge.
This careless shooter should get ready to spend millions to put on a defense that will fly in the face of every weapon film and procedures in the modern Hollywood era. He should get ready for a trial where his coworkers are going to testify he did not use industry standards of safety and redundant measures to ensure safe filming with weapons which caused the death and wounding of two people. The legacy costs alone to the wounded person will run in the millions. Not to mention the behavioral health costs to bystanders and crew. Multi million dollar court actions will and already have been initiated. Bh
Regardless of outcome, another significant point to consider is how can this be prevented in the future? How about this......when someone wants to get legal permission to operate a motor vehicle on public highways, they are required to get a learners permit, then their drivers license. Want to ride a motorcycle? fine, take a road test for it. Want to drive a big rig....not until you get your CDL. Want to be a star in Hollywood? I'm guessing that all roads go through the SAG (Screen Actors Guild). Movie ratings usually state whether the film has sex, violence, language, etc......so, if you want to star in a "R" rated shoot'em up John Wick type of script, first, you have to pass a gun safety course....much like a driver passes the drivers exam. This wouldn't be THAT difficult, would it? I even see a second benefit to the requirement of firearm training for thespians.....perhaps a better understanding of firearms would help them to understand and respect guns the way most firearms owners do.....and as a result, their positive support could be directed towards common sense legislation regarding gun control.
Death by a gun on a tv or movie production is apparently so rare that one has to assume foul play. I didn't hear of a prop master on the Rust production.
Baldwin has already paid out millions to the family, so the civil side is down. Now it's the criminal side and the family of the dead woman was happy to hear that charges were being filed. It will be interesting how this works out, after all justice is suppose to be blind, so we will see.
P.S Next time Alec decides to make a movie with guns he might want to hire the armoer who worked on the Jon Wick movies lol.
....and to also make sure that no one on the set ever allows HIM to have a gun in his hands!