CBS News talks wolves in CO
General Topic
Click link to watch the foolishness. No mention of hunting, hunters, economic impacts or anything else besides issues to ranchers.
Yep it's begun. The talking points are being established
The last comment from the news commentator says it all "We are trying to right a wrong...."
Yep Colorado is screwed
Honestly that was less one sided than I expected.
I agree John but they definitely tip toed around several issues which are relevant to the people who live and hunt here.
So this to fix the problem of too many deer and elk ?
She said "science based" so we will be ok. LOL
Surprisingly even handed report. Actually talking to Don.
By the way. It’s a small world. Don is wearing my Croswell Cattle Company hat I gave him years ago.
And when I opened the link I was drinking coffee this morning wearing my Stockmans bar T shirt. No lie. Very strange coincidence
I think wolves have brought Yellowstone back to what it was decades ago. The elk and deer had over populated and over grazed the open areas. I have relatives that live out there and they are hunters. I think if the wolves are after your livestock you should be able to shoot them, period.
The report in and of itself was pretty middle of the ground honestly. They didn't depict ranchers as the kill all greedy people that the pro-wolf people did, nor did that have a wackjob wolfy spouting bullshit. Doesn't help us though.
The differences between Yellowsyone NP and Colorado are so stark as to be incomparable.
Elk and deer numbers in Yellowstone being out of control was due to no hunting allowed.
Denver Post lead editorial on Friday. Evil, lazy ranchers vs. glorious wolves that will save the planet. The solution to livestock losses is to "bring livestock in at night", says the HSUS spokeswoman who has likely never seen a cow except outside the Subaru window.
For clarity. This Bar in Walden, not the Hollywood Stockman bars in other western states
“ Elk and deer numbers in Yellowstone being out of control was due to no hunting allowed.”
You’re certainly Not Wrong about that. But Leopold was observing the effects of overabundant ungulates several generations ago now, and it’s not as if the population has been drastically curtailed since then (apart from some CWD control efforts, I suppose).
Thing is, we don’t LIKE hunting at sustainable herd densities. I’ll spare you the rant, but nobody’s going to be happy waiting for a dozen years to hunt a unit that’s not crawling with Elk.
^^^ GF- here in Colorado we have a handful of units which are “trophy” units. That have overly abundant elk herds. Have you ever hunted here?? There’s not deer and elk behind every dam tree. Yes the state as a whole has a large population but we also have tons of acreage and habitat suitable to hold such numbers. We’ve been without wolves on the landscape now for a long time all while maintaining “sustainable herd densities.” As you put it. Your support of this BS is like a writer cutting off his own hand, then acting surprised when he can’t make a living anymore. It’s plain stupidity.
There are no units in Colorado crawling with too many deer. I would also say the same for elk even in the "trophy" units. There are pockets of decent numbers of elk, but there are also large parts of the units that are void of elk.
"There are no units in Colorado crawling with too many deer." I see hundreds of deer on certain stretches of highway.
Look at our numbers deer are down everywhere. I'm sure your "hundreds" of deer is like forty or fifty.
“I see hundreds of deer on certain stretches of highway”.
I’m sure you do during certain times of year. Especially now when in their winter range because snow has pushed them down and forced them to congregate in areas where feed is accessible. As Ryan said, the numbers don’t lie. Deer populations are down and struggling in most areas statewide.
" I'm sure your "hundreds" of deer is like forty or fifty." When I see forty or fifty deer, every 3 or 4 miles, on a stretch of highway, that equals hundreds of deer.
name a unit that is over objective on deer numbers, I'll wait.
More trouble for the hunters
If you can tie Trump to being in favor for Wolves the media will probably do 180 like they did with Covid... an orange Wolf pack would be a great start.
" When I see forty or fifty deer, every 3 or 4 miles, on a stretch of highway, that equals hundreds of deer. "
Or maybe you're seeing the stretches that hold deer, because they have food, water etc. You can't extrapolate from observing one data point - 'deer seen'. You have to look at habitat as well.
Peco obviously didn't live here in the 80s or 90s when we actually had deer.
I moved here in 2004. I didn't see a lot of deer in Summit county, as I did when I moved to Lake county. I have been in Fremont county since 2010. I see many many deer, all of the time now. I frequent Park county, lots of deer there also.
A success story In Colorado is moose populations. Now is the “glory days”. Track the upcoming population trends. As moose populations crater, mark my words. Every excuse (climate change included) will be tossed around. But they won’t utter the word “wolf”.
Z, our moose populations in northern CO are growing and we have all the same variables they are using to explain the drastic decrease in northern WY - ticks, climate change, SUVs, except, you know...the "elephant" in the room..
In 1963 the deer harvest was 147,000+.
In 2021 it was under 41,000.
I caught the tail end in the 80s. Hard to describe to hunters who didn't see what it was like without sounding like a fish story. It was wildly different than what we have now.
“ ^^^ GF- here in Colorado we have a handful of units which are “trophy” units. That have overly abundant elk herds. Have you ever hunted here??”
Only 60 days or so, on the ridge out the back door. My brother has been up there every year for the past quarter century and then some. Up ‘til last season. Had to try someplace new and got onto a young 6x6 at about 20 yards on the first day in a new unit. Not like he doesn’t know what he’s up to.
The problem with Elk out West is the same as with whitetails farther East. It’s not just the numbers; it’s the distribution.
I'm shocked Peco is a transplanted deer expert. I'm still waiting on what unit or units are over objective on deer numbers Peco
Meanwhil;e in NY...more gov't deceit .
Orion, I don't know what the objectives are, I just know what I see, and that is a lot of deer. No one is claiming to be an expert. A lot more deer, a lot less transplants, guess I should have got here earlier.
I'm sure it seems like a lot of deer to you. Go back and look at our herd numbers throughout the years and harvest numbers. You will see that your posts are uninformed
I see a lot of deer, great if there were more in the past. Hope this link works, according to cpw deer population statistics, many units are actually over objective.
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Colorado_Big_Game_Population_Status_and_Management_Summary2_2020.pdf#:~:text=Colorado%E2%80%99s%20statewide%20deer%20population%20declined%20from%20roughly%20600%2C000,Figure%201%20for%20a%20map%20of%20Deer%20DAUs.
So from 2004 to 2021 we lose close to 200,000 deer and we are over objective?
Yea the days of plenty are soon ending. Funny how they just reported a pack came down from Yellowstone and yet they want to trap and release more. Shouldn't the fact that a pack t ave led down tell them to just leave it be, let the wolves naturally come in. It will certainly take longer for them to overrun the state. Trapping and relocating will just speed up the over pop of wolves in a shorter time. Can't help but think the antis have thought about the hunting industry being hurt and I'm sure that one of factors. Good luck to you all, enjoy the hunt while you still have it. I also think ranchers should be allowed to shoot Wolves preying in their livestock, but the climate change folks are jumping for joy with the prospect of less cattle. But don't wolves fart too? Lol
I always assumed herd objectives were set at habitat carrying capacity. I thought we all wanted a lot of deer if the habitat could support it. I learned later they are set more (or as much) by politics and beauracracy. Knowing how many deer we had for decades and then seeing objectives now set close to current populations opened my eyes.
When you are judged by how well you manage a population, setting objectives close to current counts makes that incredibly easier.
Orion, you are killing me. Did you check out the cpw webpage on deer objective statistics? You didn't, or you would see there are many units that are over objective. If I were here in 1980 sure, it sounds like I would have seen more deer. That doesn't mean I'm not seeing many deer now and all the deer are gone. I hear how many monster fish were in 11 Mile back in the 80's also, and those same guys say that there are no fish in there now. LOL OK then. Next thing you will tell me that there are no turkeys here. Guess what I see lots of turkeys too. Back on topic, do wolves eat turkeys?
We have lots of turkeys thats why I kill one every year. I never said the deer were gone I said their numbers are down which is what your arguing. Did you move here from California by chance?
Peco honestly your delusional if you think the mule deer herds in any western state are doing well
Actually you asked him to name 1 unit that's over objective. That's insinuating that none are over objective. And according to CDOW there are DAU that are "over objective"
Wolves and healthy deer herds do not exists. I have wolves here.
I have no tolerance for them. Natural wolf numbers is one thing, reintroduction and no mgt is another.
You guys on singing kumbaya, on tolerating wolves are just naive.
Orion. I never disputed deer numbers are down. I've only stated that I see a shit ton of deer, all year long. I have lived in Cali 1995-2001 while in the Coast Guard. I moved here from Reno. I've lived too many places in my life to be "from" anywhere. I've lived in Colorado longer than any other place in my life.
KsRancher thanks for backing me up, you get it.
there isn't a unit that is over objective for deer. The numbers don't lie. CPW moves the goalpost to keep money flowing and people applying
You need to read Glunts post above again then read it again
Mule deer numbers are down huge. I’m not a Colorado resident. But, I’ve spent 40 days hunting there in the last 15 years. In the same unit. And all but a couple days were spent in the same 6-8 square mile. The difference in elk wasn’t much over those years. But, the difference in deer numbers saw from Denver west, was astounding.
Way less deer. It’s went from an otc unit to needing three points to even think about it. It’s awful what’s happened.
I’ve saw some true world class deer in that unit. Had two less than 7 yards. For minutes I got to watch them totally unknowing of me being within Looggey range. But, I haven’t seen a good buck there in several trips.
Two variables changed. The number of grazing animals have increased to a good 300 percent total. And lots of lion sign and one spotted by a guy in the group.
Orion, you need to click on my link above and read it, then read it again. Then mansplain to me what "above objective" means, or doesn't mean.
Peco you think Mule deer are doing well?
Where I live, and the areas I frequent, yes. I live in Fremont county. I understand where I live doesn't reflect the entire state. Maybe it's different in your part of the state. I feel like you are deflecting. Did you check out the link I posted, and see all of the units that are above objective. I also get what you and a few others are saying, that cpw pads the numbers in order to sell more tags. However, I stand by what I have said, there is no shortage of deer in my area of the state. I'm going fishing now, catch you later.
Hmmm.. DAU 16 in Fremont County had estimated 11,700 deer in the last published post-hunt-survey in 2020, with a population objective of 16 - 20,000. Not sure I would classify that as "doing well".
I just read this in a magazine. Locals most likely already knew this.
But Lou he sees "lots" of deer and its over objective so it's doing fantastic
