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Possible delay for Wolf intro
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
LUNG$HOT 04-Apr-23
Jaquomo 04-Apr-23
yooper89 04-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 04-Apr-23
Jaquomo 04-Apr-23
LUNG$HOT 04-Apr-23
LineHunter 04-Apr-23
Treeline 04-Apr-23
easeup 04-Apr-23
Zbone 05-Apr-23
cnelk 05-Apr-23
MA-PAdeerslayer 05-Apr-23
Billyvanness 05-Apr-23
cnelk 05-Apr-23
Jaquomo 05-Apr-23
cnelk 05-Apr-23
APauls 05-Apr-23
8point 05-Apr-23
Jaquomo 05-Apr-23
KsRancher 05-Apr-23
MichaelArnette 05-Apr-23
fishnride 05-Apr-23
cnelk 05-Apr-23
Jaquomo 06-Apr-23
Sivart 06-Apr-23
bowyer45 06-Apr-23
PushCoArcher 06-Apr-23
Sivart 06-Apr-23
WapitiBob 06-Apr-23
Jaquomo 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Jaquomo 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Glunt@work 06-Apr-23
ryanrc 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Glunt@work 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Grey Ghost 06-Apr-23
Glunt@work 06-Apr-23
Jaquomo 07-Apr-23
Whocares 07-Apr-23
TD 07-Apr-23
From: LUNG$HOT
04-Apr-23

LUNG$HOT's Link
Fingers crossed. Unfortunately a lengthy delay is the best we can hope for at this point.

From: Jaquomo
04-Apr-23
Ha, no. This bill is sponsored by four west slope Republican senators who are doing it to appease their constituents. No dems have signed on. The dem supermajority won't pass it if it gets out of committee, and if a bizarre, parallel universe miracle happens and it somehow passes in the middle of the night, Polis will race to veto it.

Our best hope is for USFWS to intervene and throw a wrench in the cogs, or for a sympathetic judge to slam on the brakes.

From: yooper89
04-Apr-23
I see two Dems listed but I didn’t read the whole article

From: Grey Ghost
04-Apr-23
Wolfies would rather see them starve to death, than admit reintroduction is a stupid idea.

From: Jaquomo
04-Apr-23
I stand corrected. There are two Dems on there. Maybe some hope.

From: LUNG$HOT
04-Apr-23
Yeah Lou, I was shocked to see 2 Dems co-sponsored it as well. Had to do a double take. Not holding my breath but seems to be a small flame remaining in the fire pit.

From: LineHunter
04-Apr-23
Won’t matter. They’ll take matters into their own hands the way many speculate they did in Idaho on Nez Pierce. The reintroduction will happen legally or illegally. The left doesn’t follow the law.

From: Treeline
04-Apr-23
Already too many wolves in Colorado…

From: easeup
04-Apr-23
The reintroduction will happen legally or illegally. The left doesn’t follow the law.

thats how they showed up in the Gila years ago

05-Apr-23
I’ve read that they are being released on private and state land only. (They haven’t got permits to release on federal land ) And in the areas of the state that voted for it. IE; Vail area and others

Has this release location been released.

05-Apr-23

Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
The primary oval includes wolf-friendly Summit and Pitkin counties, two of five counties west of the Continental Divide that voted in favor of the narrowly passed ballot initiative to mandate reintroduction. State wildlife officials are leaning heavily on social acceptability of release sites to avoid or minimize conflict, namely with livestock.

05-Apr-23

Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
Altitude Sickness 's embedded Photo
They want them to migrate into the Flatops where they will have more food.

From: Zbone
05-Apr-23
Dang, there goes the Flatttops....

From: cnelk
05-Apr-23
From the DRAFT Wolf Plan

"Releases will occur on state or private lands. The plan does not currently contemplate releases on Federal lands because CPW does not have the staffing or financial resources to undertake the required National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) analysis prior to any federal land management agency authorizing releases on federal lands. CPW will attempt to select release areas that are likely to promote successful wolf recolonization, while also considering the potential for livestock or human conflicts. Specific release locations will not be made public in this Plan in order to protect private landowner information and sensitive species locations, but targeted outreach will occur with potentially affected stakeholders prior to release."

05-Apr-23
Hopefully not the flat tops… I was hoping one day to hunt with Forrest lol. This has to be one of the dumbest thing I’ve ever witnessed…

05-Apr-23
Had a buddy feeding his horses at daybreak last week between Steamboat and Clark. A lone wolf circled behind his barn on the crust howled a couple times and disappeared. They’re already here

From: cnelk
05-Apr-23

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
I took this pic Dec 6, 2020 on a lake I snowmobile into to ice fish - N Central Colorado near the Wyoming border.

Wolves have definitely been here for quite awhile

From: Jaquomo
05-Apr-23
This is just an end-around the NEPA regulations. Nothing more. Everyone with a brain knows the wolves will spread beyond the little circles very quickly. The "prey base" is only in the Flattops for less than half the year.

05-Apr-23
Lou, will the elk be pushed into new areas. Or just killed. Or both

I know with large wild fires elk have been shown to ride it out and move in and around. But stay in the general area

From: cnelk
05-Apr-23
I had first hand wolves experience last year while archery elk hunting in North Park - they were in the area and the elk were silent, deer were scarce and moose were non-existent

From: APauls
05-Apr-23

APauls's embedded Photo
APauls's embedded Photo
We've got lots of wolves to share ;)

From: 8point
05-Apr-23
For God sake just keep your damn cell phones off, and do what's right. If it's got a collar, throw it into a passing pickup. Colorado restricted my area, and so I'll most likely never hunt west of the Mississippi again, but my sympathies are with you. Give-um hell.

From: Jaquomo
05-Apr-23
8 point, cell phones will still track you, even turned off. This will be the most monitored animal population ever in our country. If a mortality signal is detected on a collared wolf, the helicopters will be there before a passing pickup can be located, and satellite views of the area will be immediate.

Jay, they will do what they did in the GYE and Idaho. They move around as soon as they start getting chased. What will be interesting is to see what happens with the huge herds of 100-200 that roam the big open ranch flats and hay meadows all throughout the hunting seasons now. This phenomenon has developed in the past 20 years ever since bowhunting and fall recreation exploded on the public land above the ranches.

If it breaks them up and moves smaller bunches back into public land, it could be a boon to hunters for awhile.

05-Apr-23
That’s kind of what I was thinking Lou. For the first year it could be good by moving them off of private land.

then they will find a place they’re not harassed whether it’s 20 or 100 miles away. and then after a few years, the numbers will start declining.

From: KsRancher
05-Apr-23
I have no idea how this stuff works. Can they (whoever it may be) just come onto your private because of a mortality signal? Or do they have to get permission?

05-Apr-23
If it works it gives us time for another ballot initiative, which should be our next step

From: fishnride
05-Apr-23

fishnride's Link
Here’s a link to the actual bill

From: cnelk
05-Apr-23
KSRancher - I have rancher friends up in North Park. Recently the CPW called and asked if they could land helicopters on their land when checking moose (as they have in the past) and also asked if they saw a wolf if they could tranquilizer it and land.

The answer was a definite no.

From: Jaquomo
06-Apr-23
Michael, who is going to step up and contribute the millions to generate and promote a ballot initiative that was already decided by the voters?

From: Sivart
06-Apr-23
Trump Jr?

From: bowyer45
06-Apr-23
Wolves in Montana and else ware, have caused the elk to find shelter down on the private properties and avoid the less populated national forest.. The wolves have always tried to avoid man. so private land hunting will get better and the forest areas worse.

From: PushCoArcher
06-Apr-23
Anyone pay attention to the Ute tribe? They gave their opinion to the cpw today its great props to them for taking a stand! Really shows the hypocrisy of the left "native rights" are so important unless they disagree with their benevolent over lord's. I hope the tribe brings a lawsuit might not stop them but a slow down is still a win.

From: Sivart
06-Apr-23
Very true. Dems act all supportive as long as it fits their agenda.

From: WapitiBob
06-Apr-23
"Michael, who is going to step up and contribute the millions to generate and promote a ballot initiative that was already decided by the voters?"

Isn't that why well meaning sportsmen send their hard earned money into guys like BGF and Howl? How many millions has BGF been given and other than buying some steak dinners in D.C. and sending out mass emails, what has he done?

From: Jaquomo
06-Apr-23
Bob, agreed. The Stop The Wolf campaign generated a whopping $300,000 in donations, including some from BGF, and did nothing with it besides make a few long form, 3 minute videos that nobody but supporters watched.

In 2022 it took an average of $4.1 million for a ballot initiative. Some have done math and believe our side could do it with $1.5 million. But I see nothing to indicate it would be defeated this time around, especially with a very popular governor going all in to support dumping wolves ASAP.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23

Grey Ghost's Link
"8 point, cell phones will still track you, even turned off. This will be the most monitored animal population ever in our country. If a mortality signal is detected on a collared wolf, the helicopters will be there before a passing pickup can be located, and satellite views of the area will be immediate.

Lou, is this something you were told by someone who actually knows the details of collaring program? I ask because that's completely different than what is stated in the reintroduction plan. Here's a quote from the plan.

" The collars will be the primary means for monitoring individual wolves post-release. Location data is not immediately available from these collars, it is subject to satellite download frequencies, and it should be expected that there may be several days, sometimes greater from when the animal was at the location and the data are available."

I'm also reading that the "mortality signal" is simply triggered when the collar is stationary for several hours. So, it's not like helicopters are going to be dropping out of the sky the moment a wolf dies.

The article in my link also mentions that the collars are subject to frequent failures, and their lifespan is only about 5 years. One of the wolves they collared recently in North Park slipped it just a few days after being released. it's believed he slipped it on a Sunday and they found it the following Tuesday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not posting this to advocate SSS, just sharing info.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
06-Apr-23
I'm speculating that the statement, "Location data is not immediately available from these collars, it is subject to satellite download frequencies, and it should be expected that there may be several days, sometimes greater from when the animal was at the location and the data are available." is a CYA clause to allow delays in responding to livestock mortality claims. I believe that they will be monitored very closely for the first year, at least. The technology is there to do it in real time.

This is an irreversible experiment unlike any other in a highly-populated state, and they know full well the anger from those who live and ranch in the dumping ground. These wolves will be closely watched, despite how they frame it for public consumption.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23
I'd be surprised if the CPW budget for this mess can afford real-time satellite tracking technology, and the labor force necessary to monitor the wolves as closely as you think, unless they are being secretly funded, somehow. I guess we'll see.

One thing I do know. A lot of folks in my neck of the woods won't tolerate wolves. They'll take their chances with any legal ramifications to keep them away, if necessary.

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23
Hypothetically speaking, if a collared wolf is shot with a long distance rifle, and left to rot without approaching it, how would authorities find and convict the poacher?

Matt

From: Glunt@work
06-Apr-23
When the last 2 dogs were killed in Walden it was stated the CPW confirmed the wolve's GPS info at the attack sites very quickly.

From: ryanrc
06-Apr-23
Hopefully it gets delayed until 2029 at least. Hopefully by then we will have enough negative encounters with what is already here to change the opinion of voters who didn't know any better.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23
Glunt, were the poachers found and convicted?

Matt

From: Glunt@work
06-Apr-23
GG. The "poachers" were two wolves killing two domestic dogs. No need to find them because the CPW knows where they are since they have working collars. They were convicted by the CPW based on GPS and physical evidence at the scenes but there was no sentence other than "Go on now and keep doing what wolves do".

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23
Being in the general area at the time of a poaching, confirmed by GPS tracking, isn't enough to convict a poacher. So, Az's advice is meaningless as usual. My question is, what hard evidence would convict a poacher who killed a wolf, if he simply shot it from 600 yards, and walked away?

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
06-Apr-23
Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Matt

From: Glunt@work
06-Apr-23
I would expect low odds of catching them. But, you never know. I read about an old case of a serial poacher wardens chased for years but couldn't catch in the act or with enough evidence to charge. Then they investigated a fresh kill and found where he had backed into a snow bank getting his truck turned around. Left a perfect image of his license plate in the snow and that led to his house, which led to more evidence and a conviction.

From: Jaquomo
07-Apr-23
Joe Pickett would catch him.

07-Apr-23
G.G. Your governor could ask China Joe to pull a favor from his benefactors and give him some Chinese spy camera footage of the crime scene :>)))

From: Whocares
07-Apr-23
Good one Jaq! And Nate might help him.

From: TD
07-Apr-23
I know one area on the short list for a wolf dump. Ranchers who graze on NF are now required to electronic collar their cattle. Asking CO CPW they hinted the wolf intro "may" have something to do with it?.... but also said they are under a total gag order from the Governor WRT anything wolf.

Lose your job if you say anything publicly. You have not, nor will not hear from the state when anything negative happens, things go sideways. Only way is like when the dogs were killed and private citizens make it public.

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