Mathews Inc.
How long B4 3D becomes Unisex
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
MC2STRNG 27-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 27-Apr-23
UPSTATE 27-Apr-23
lamb 27-Apr-23
greenmountain 27-Apr-23
MC2STRNG 27-Apr-23
Cheesehead Mike 27-Apr-23
DanaC 27-Apr-23
MC2STRNG 27-Apr-23
TonyBear 27-Apr-23
Bowfreak 27-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 27-Apr-23
MC2STRNG 27-Apr-23
Lost Arra 27-Apr-23
MC2STRNG 27-Apr-23
Bowfreak 27-Apr-23
smarba 27-Apr-23
Bowfreak 27-Apr-23
smarba 27-Apr-23
Shug 27-Apr-23
Mpdh 27-Apr-23
Don 27-Apr-23
Lost Arra 27-Apr-23
Bowfreak 27-Apr-23
DanaC 28-Apr-23
t-roy 28-Apr-23
DanaC 28-Apr-23
t-roy 28-Apr-23
scentman 28-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 28-Apr-23
Lost Arra 28-Apr-23
South Farm 28-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 28-Apr-23
South Farm 28-Apr-23
Aspen Ghost 28-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 28-Apr-23
drycreek 28-Apr-23
Will 28-Apr-23
Saphead 28-Apr-23
Missouribreaks 28-Apr-23
From: MC2STRNG
27-Apr-23
With the sports becoming less clear in terms of male/female categories. When do you think we will see unisex shooting classes? Or men's in women's classes and visa versa? It would seem that Archery is a sport that could easily turned into one class of shooters except for maybe age classification.

mike

27-Apr-23
One class makes total sense this day and age.

From: UPSTATE
27-Apr-23
Should be unisex class unless for some reason guys/girls have an advantage usually based on strength characteristics. Is that a thing in archery?

From: lamb
27-Apr-23
i shoot a recurve for 3d 219 fps/ my wife shoots a recurve at 140 fps. that sounds fair??

27-Apr-23
The only 3d shoots I have ever been in were family events . Men ,women and children shot the same targets together . There was a special place for the younger kids to shoot from.

From: MC2STRNG
27-Apr-23
Yes, this could happen in field archery and WA. Maybe just more age unisex classes or bow pull weight classes?

Mike

27-Apr-23
I'm waiting for the cross-bow class. You know, the class for cross-dressers... ;-)

From: DanaC
27-Apr-23
ASA recurve/longbow classes are there already

From: MC2STRNG
27-Apr-23
Only in Trad Comp due to lower numbers? ASA has Trad and Barebow

mike

From: TonyBear
27-Apr-23
Nope, no, sorry keep the sex, biological xx, xy separate.

I have only known one hermaphrodite in my lifetime and that person had so many other health issues shooting a bow was probably out of the question.

From: Bowfreak
27-Apr-23
Women would never win. It is not an obvious strength and speed sport like football but just look at the scores on a given event where women and men shoot the same targets. I shouldn’t say never as Paige Pierce would make the Vegas shoot off but she is an anomaly.

27-Apr-23
How does one know if they are competing against a biological male, or a biological women ? Does it matter ?

From: MC2STRNG
27-Apr-23

MC2STRNG's Link
Both ASA Nationals in 2023 Trad were won by females in Unisex.

mike

From: Lost Arra
27-Apr-23
Competitively, shooting sports where accuracy is the goal would not be harmed by having divisions solely based on age. Any sports that are based on strength, speed, power and especially contact sports, need separate categories based on sex (on the birth certificate).

The purpose of most competitive divisions in shooting sports should be equipment differences but it's also to give out more trophies which results in more entries.

From: MC2STRNG
27-Apr-23
I like it. Fewer stakes. Maybe have to put some weight classifictions in. If your shooting Known 50 and under I dont know as you would even need to.

From: Bowfreak
27-Apr-23

Bowfreak's Link
Your link shows that the Trad class paid $175 to the winner and there were 15 shooters. If that was $20,000 it would be full of men who would dominate the sport. For anyone reading too far into my comments, I am the father of 2 high school girls who play sports. I can't be a stronger supporter of girls sports but once they get past about 8-10 years old females can't physically compete with men. This supports my position on girls/women's sports. I very much am interested in keeping men out of their sports because I want girls like mine to have opportunities.

Serena Williams is one of the most dominant athletes of her era. Arguably the most dominant female tennis player ever. She played an exhibition match in 1998 against the 208th ranked men's player and lost. John McEnroe stated that if she played against men she would be ranked around 700.

For this years' Vegas shoot 25 guys shot 900 rounds. 2 Women shot 900 rounds. The fact that 2 women shot 900 was over the top since only a total of (12) 900 rounds have ever been shot by women. There has been (337) 900 rounds shot by men. This is amazing to me as archery is such a great sport where it seems like the playing field is leveled between sexes. I have shot bows with a handful of women that were tremendous archers so it is hard to believe that there is that big of a difference in a sport that seems like overall strength plays little role in results.

I will say that this is such an interesting topic and I am glad it was brought up on Bowsite. It is nice to see something different after 25 years of which broadhead threads, some of which I have been very much guilty of starting in the past.

From: smarba
27-Apr-23
I'm with Bowfreak. Unless there is a VERY compelling reason as to why there is no physical or other advantage, combining men's and women's events is not the way to go.

And to specifically address sports where it's currently happening (i.e. Trans dudes competing against women) such as swimming, cycling, running, etc., it is flat out wrong and needs to be STOPPED.

From: Bowfreak
27-Apr-23

Bowfreak's Link
I have to admit that this was hilarious though. It is not funny for the women that are actually competing, but it points out the absurdity of the governing bodies' take on men competing in women's sports.

From: smarba
27-Apr-23
Yeah Bowfreak, that guy did it with intention to demonstrate the absurdity of it all. There are other links where it states he's very much against trans dudes competing in women's events and he did it as a statement.

From: Shug
27-Apr-23
That’s funny I was thinking about this the other day… Say Levi Morgan finally comes out and ends up in the “woman’s “ outdoor finals wearing a dress and. 5” high heels sinking in the mud

From: Mpdh
27-Apr-23
I have a grandchild who was a college swimmer. There was a transgender person on the team. Boys and girls competed separately but at the same venue. This person had to test for hormone levels before each meet. More than a certain level of testosterone and she, he was required to compete with the men.

From: Don
27-Apr-23
Problem is a lot of guys egos will be hurt with a woman beating them in their own class. They don’t notice so much when it’s a different class.

From: Lost Arra
27-Apr-23
mpdh: the present level of testosterone is not as important as 18-19 years of testosterone exposure prior to the competition. Why do Olympic athletes get tested out of season? The trans women won't always win because they weren't good enough to begin with.

Men shoot more perfect scores at Vegas because there are a lot more men participating in competitive archery especially at Vegas. There is a bigger pool to choose from. I would bet things tighten up between men and women scores in Seoul, especially Oly recurve.

From: Bowfreak
27-Apr-23
There may be more men but men outshoot women for the same reason they outplay them on the basketball court. Just look at 3D scores. Men’s scores are always considerably higher on the same course.

From: DanaC
28-Apr-23
Re MC2STRING - "Only in Trad Comp due to lower numbers? ASA has Trad and Barebow

mike "

ASA has three non-wheel classes including 'Olympic'. At the ASA shoot here last weekend we had 181 shooters. 6 in Barebow, of whom 2 were women. 1 Olympic shooter, male. 6 in Traditional, all male. We're a small percentage of total shooters so we don't get much say in it. (IBO has more non-compound classes, M&F.)

From: t-roy
28-Apr-23
“However, the union’s competition registration policy states that a competitor’s government-issued photo identification (excluding Youth lifters) must be verified during the weigh-in or equipment check, including date of birth, province, and gender at all competitions.”

Just exactly who’s equipment are they checking, and what are they checking FOR??!!….

From: DanaC
28-Apr-23
Umm, T-Roy, what are you quoting from? 'Lifters'?

From: t-roy
28-Apr-23
There. I edited it for ya, Dana.

From: scentman
28-Apr-23
Trending......., gender puns sprinkled into every thread on Bowsite... getting old fast.

28-Apr-23
Well, lots of ignorant hunters voted for the current administration and their absurd priorities.

From: Lost Arra
28-Apr-23

Lost Arra's Link
>>There may be more men but men outshoot women for the same reason they outplay them on the basketball court. Just look at 3D scores. Men’s scores are always considerably higher on the same course.<<

I guess we can just disagree, all in a friendly way. Archery accuracy is not a function of strength, speed and power like it is in basketball success. There may be some strength advantage at beginner levels that favors males but at elite archery levels the females are not limited by strength. My point is that the overall pool of male archers is much much larger than the pool of female archers so the upper 1% that can shoot perfect scores at Vegas will result in a greater number of males. Example: 1% of 5000 is 50. 1% of 1000 is 10. The number of whitetail deer killed by men is greater than women but not because men are stronger, faster and more powerful but because there are a lot more male bowhunters.

I'm not against keeping mens and womens categories separate but simply to encourage people to enter. More trophies, more entries.

From: South Farm
28-Apr-23
Let's just cut to the chase and simply ELIMINATE every and all forms of competition. I mean is it really fair that there can be just one winner in this new age of inclusivity, equality, and diversity? Everyone's a winner when NOBODY wins!!! Problem solved..

28-Apr-23
Participation ribbons for all !

From: South Farm
28-Apr-23
YEP! LOL!

Hey wait! How come he got his participation before I got mine, no fair! And so begins a new crisis.

My Dad was 100% right when he told me "Life ain't fair". I think that notion has been lost on this generation, but whatever; they'll doom themselves over all this equality inclusivity BS.

From: Aspen Ghost
28-Apr-23
I'm deeply offended at the thought of having a "winner". That is not very inclusive for us "differently coordinated" people.

28-Apr-23
All people are winners, lol.

From: drycreek
28-Apr-23
I just hope we don’t have to knock the antlers off of the Glendel Buck !

From: Will
28-Apr-23
I'm assuming males and females shoot the same distances/targets (pretty sure that's true, but I've not been into competitive archery for a while so could be wrong), if they have similar scores, then it could be reasonable if the athletes were open to it.

The one that really gets me though, is fishing. Seems zero reason for sex based categories in, say, competitive bass fishing or similar. Sorry to digress there.

From: Saphead
28-Apr-23
Since they divide all sports on Sex, You just need a transgender division. :)

28-Apr-23
You might need two transgender divisions, I mean really.

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