Rattle Snake bit our dog
Turkey
This is a pic of Whitley the beagle on a better day
This is a pic of Whitley the beagle on a better day
Last Sunday we were out looking for antlers and turkeys when our beagle "Whitley" had a rattle snake encounter. She was bit in the face. Luckily one of boys and I were nearby and could hear the snake so we knew what happened when she barked and came running. I'm sure most of you are prepared and knowledgeable about this stuff but I was not. Wanted to share this with you guys in case it happened to someone else, or much worse to you or someone you're hunting with. I was ignorant about snake bites and honestly hadn't talked to the boys about them and what to do if they had an encounter. We split up a lot and with no service this all got me thinking about what could happen to one of the boys if he were bit and no way to get in touch. I learned a lot about snake bites and their effects on dogs/humans. I recall a thread a few years back on here where a bowsiter was bit by some kind of snake and had some really terrible reactions and long recovery too. Cant recall who that was at the moment.
At any rate, I wasn't sure what needed to happen but by this time Whitley is laying on her side, her face is puffed up and she's hyperventilating. We have 4 boys and they LOVE this dog. So do I. Hard to see her like that. We didn't have service so we got up top to make a call and found out it was very important to get her to the vet within the first 4 hours. Most likely she would not die from the bite (that was a big relief) but time was of the essence and she would be in more pain the longer it took along with more possible negative outcomes the longer it took to get there. We were about an hour from the vet in normal conditions so it was pretty doable.......This being not normal conditions.....I was moving at a slightly faster pace than conditions allowed......I got a flat tire on the drive there!! Can't make that up. Slow down Matt!!
We made it to the vet and she was given "antivenin" and pain killers. She wasn't doing great and had to spend the night there. They got her stable and on the mend. We were able to pick her up the next day and take her home. The swelling in her face really blew up overnight.
Happy to report she is doing much better today. Still on some pain meds but eating normal and has gone out for a few walks. Swelling has gone way down. Definitely not back to her old self yet but on the right path. Hope this inspires you to do a little research and have a plan in place for something like this. Have fun and be safe out there!
Side note: The turkeys didn't cooperate but we added a few more antlers for the pile at home.
Glad to hear your little friend is ok, she is a cutie ;0] scentman
Oh man, that's terrible. Hope Whitely heals up ok and you all have years of time together!
Thx for posting this story and glad the outcome was positive.
That's terrible. Glad you got her taken care of quickly and sounds like she will be ok. When I saw the thread title, I expected the worst.
Glad to hear Whitley is on the mend. I grew up with beagle(s) or mixes and they are great dogs.
Glad you had a good outcome and that the rattler gave you a warning so you didn;t run in blindly to it and possibly get bitten yourself!
You are right that the quicker you get the first dose of anti-venom the better! My toxicologist said 6 hours is the "magic window" so to speak for humans- if you get it within 6 hours you probably won't die and won't end up with serious tissue damage or amputation. But every minute past 6 hours and there are no guarantees.............................................
The other thing is swelling is actually a good thing- so don't do anything that will inhibit swelling like putting ice on it or taking anti-inflamatories..............................................just get to the hospital ASAP!
And if you have an Inreach or other sattelite communiation device ALWAYS take it with you! If I had one back in 2018 I could have saved myself a lot of time and pain and suffering! : (
Here is the link to my story for those who missed it. There is a lot of good information in it. I learned more about rattlesnakes than I ever wanted to know! ;-)
Down here we need to keep our dogs away from these guys too. Ran up on this guy last month. Originally, he was stretched out across the road.
I grew up on a farm in the middle of rattlesnake country. Both parents, my daughter, girlfriend and numerous animals were snake bitten. Although it does absolutely nothing for the actual venom antibiotics were always given by the local vets/doctors due to secondary infection. When my daughter was bit the hospital said they weren't needed. She was back in 36 hours with an infection that was worse than the bite. Glad to see your dog is doing better.
Glad to hear your pup is on the mend, she's a cutie!
Thanks for posting this as a cautionary tale for all of us with 4 legged friends.
Rut, thanks for posting the link to your snakebite ordeal. It should be mandatory reading for everyone this time of year!
Stay vigilant and safe out there.
Ive treated many many snakebites Ive always felt AV needs to be given within 2 hours to make a difference-but Im talking timber rattlers and eastern diamondbacks,alot of dogs will survive a mocassin bite withput AV of course hindsite is 20/20.Many dogs bitten by EDB die en route to my office.Every bite is different depending on type of snake,size,amount of venom etc
if youre in MT I assume it was a western DB- there is a vaccine available Im not sure if its commonly used in MT I kow its common in TX,NM,AZ to vaccinate.Of course vaccine and antivenom are completely different.
That’s a good point Bruce! They say rattlesnakes carry a LOT of nasty bacteria on their fangs! I thought they ALWAYS give anti-biotics with snakebites.......................
Jim- I usually see a thread like this in the Spring or early Summer that reminds me to post that link.
I just mailed out a pair of snakeboots to a Bowsiter this week. I got a new pair of lace-up boots(little different style) and figured instead of my old ones collecting dust in the closet I should try to find them a new home. They were still in very good shape!
EVERYONE should have SOME KIND of snake protection if you have poisonous snakes in your area! Either boots, gaiters or chaps! It is “cheap” insurance! DON’T be THAT GUY(me) that says I really don’t want to spend the money for the few times a year I may be around poisonous snakes! : (
Glad she’s going to pull through
Next to my deck step here at the house a couple days ago. Moved him before the dogs or kids interacted.
We do a professional snake aversion training session with our Vizslas. Well worth it. Western bird dog clubs probably know where to get a training class. Google does too.
Glad the beagle is doing well!
4nolz - that's awesome about a vax for WDB bites. Very cool. I could definitely see dogs getting into snakes, and venomous snakes are not good at teaching gentle lessons.
Lawdog, is that a cottonmouth?
Ksgobbler, what kind is that one? Really pronounced markings, cool looking snake.
From: 4nolz@work02-Jun-23
Every bite is different depending on type of snake,size,amount of venom etc
And time of year. Toxicity usually peaks in mid-July............................. And it's not only the size of the snake, but the size of the animal/human bitten. They actually formulated my anti-venom based on 3 factors: My body size, amount of venom recieved(verified by bloodwork) and time of year.(July 19th so just about peak toxicity)
Thanks guys.
Yes, Rut you were the one I was remembering! Thanks for the link to that thread.
Glad your outcome was better than mine. My dog got it in the face twice from a prairie rattler. She survived the bite, but the infection almost got her. She pulled through that then got leukemia 2 months later from the stress (according to the vet). Something I guess she would have got later in life. One of my saddest days. I won’t own another dog now.
Relocated two Timbers in the last couple of weeks both within 100 yards from the house.What’s interesting is that I hunted every piece of this property without seeing one rattlesnake saw a few copperheads and that was it.In the last 6 or 7 years we’ve encountered over a dozen where did these guys come from.Good Luck Lewis
Gotta ask... what did that vet bill run ya?
KsGobbler's snake appears to be massasauga rattlesnake.
Beagles seem more likely to get bit in my experience-maybe because there are a lot of beagles and they hunt nose to ground.I saw one bit in the eye-lost the eye but lived.It got bit again a few weeks later and died.Beagles have intense prey drive.
Damn, thanks for sharing that, Matt. Glad she pulled through. My wife and yellow lab had a very close call with a rattler last week. Best wishes for a full recovery.
We don’t have many rattlers in East Texas, but we had plenty on the place I used to lease. It was always my fear that my pointer would get bitten because they do come out of their dens on warmer days. I stayed away from the rocky bluff next to the Colorado River because I knew that they denned there. It was not uncommon for the landowner’s SIL to catch 50 to 75 of them in the spring. I always looked around really well before I sat down when calling turkeys.
We only have to worry about copperheads and cottonmouths where I live, but both of those are more aggressive than rattlers. I’ve been struck twice but not bitten. I look for them constantly when it’s warm enough for them to be out which is probably ten months out of the year. We had one little terrier dog and one lab get bitten. The lab was bitten by a cottonmouth and the little dog by an unknown snake, probably a copperhead. His head and neck swelled so badly it looked like his back feet would come off the ground. Both made it ok with no lingering effects. I’m glad yours turned out ok.
There is absolutely no point in allowing a venomous snake to live, especially if kids, livestock, or pets are exposed. There are literally thousands of other predators that handle rodent problems. I carry a silenced .22 pistol everywhere I fish, and I've shot snakes in public places and nobody the wiser. Snakes rarely kill people, but a limb can be lost to necrosis and hospital bills can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
The training works!! Last year we had more rattlers in our yard than ever before. The second one found in yard was on a weekend, so I had the time for training my young lab. We were shooting with dog out with us when we saw it just over a fence in higher grass. I grabbed dog before he found it and took him in the house to put him on a leash and put training collar on while my son kept tabs on it. We drug it in yard and I approached with dog on leash while my son kept it riled up. As soon as the pup inched closer and showed interest I gave him a good jolt. He pulled away after I tried approaching again. Fast forward 3 weeks and we had one next to house in yard where dogs are. As soon as we rounded corner it was fired up. I looked back to catch dog before he got close, but no need, he stopped immediately and wanted nothing to do with it. Already had one in drive a few weeks ago, and will give the dog a refresher if I can.
From: Lewis 02-Jun-23
Relocated two Timbers in the last couple of weeks both within 100 yards from the house.What’s interesting is that I hunted every piece of this property without seeing one rattlesnake saw a few copperheads and that was it.In the last 6 or 7 years we’ve encountered over a dozen where did these guys come from.Good Luck Lewis
Lewis- I believe rattlesnakes are protected to some degree everywhere. Here in Pa there is a season to “hunt” them but you need a special permit and then only allowed to take(kill) one per year. You are not supposed to kill them the rest of the year. With protection like that, it is no wonder they are becoming more prolific in different areas. There are many known dens where people hunt them, but I’m sure with those snakes reproducing every year, there are snakes moving out regularly searching for new habitat and prey just like most species...................
I have to ask...............did either of those Timber Rattlers you encountered this year rattle when you got close?
Glad that she is doing well. When I was a boy hunting with my grandfather a rattlesnake bit his dog in the eye. The dog was a small one about the size of your dog. We were hours away from town so he used an old time remedy (at least that's what he called it) which was pouring kerosene on the wound). The dog continued to live a long life but was blind in that one eye. Your dog's care is surely better than what my grandfather's dog got so I am hopeful that your dog will be fine.
Rut my interpretation of the word relocation is more than likely different from most folks but if a venomous snake enters my space it will be relocated using my definition of relocation Tennessee has a law protecting all snakes I’ll leave it at that Good luck and stay safe Lewis
I hear you Lewis- same here! ;-)
A couple photos of some good looking limb covers...which is about all they are good for IMO
I’m running out of bows lol ??
LOL! My favorite kind of Rattlers.............
Yes the one I posted was a small massassagua. Ive had bigger massassaguas on my front porch. But massassaguas are generally a small snake. My work is has a bunch of them. Here is one that was on the front porch.
So glad to hear Whitley is recovering from the snake bite. Yes, people can sure love a dog. We had a two year old beagle that we lost back in February due to an incident on our road with a car. There is barely a day that goes by that I don't think of him.
glad to read the pup is on the mend.
snake bites are a big worry of mine for my bird dogs. there are some areas and certain temperatures in the early season where i won't chukar hunt because of snakes. some years i have to wait almost to november to be sure there has been enough cold weather to force them in.
this time of year we hike really early in the morning when it is still cool in the high desert where there are snakes or, head to the mountains where there is almost no chance of running into one.
Limits ? Seasons ? Damn, I’m glad I live in Texas !
Will. It is a cottonmouth. They are everywhere here. I've had several in my backyard over the years. The times I saw them the dogs were either inside or hadn't seen them before I got them back inside. SBH, glad your guy will be ok.
Wow, what a story! Those bastards suck, I will kill every rattler I come across, no mercy!
Great to hear Whitey is doing well.
ElkNut
Had a duck hunting friend lose his dog that was bitten in the face. Glad you were there to help. The Platte Valley Hunting and Retrieving Club has conducted a few seminars on What to do, per snake bits. Actually there are a few guys that conduct these seminars that use real snakes and they teach the dogs by sight and smell to stay away, but using a "shock Collar" to teach the dog to back off. I think there is snake anti venom that is available to have it the field but, A recent study showed this. Here’s some good news: If your dog does get bit by a snake, no matter which antivenom your veterinarian chooses, it will be effective. However, clearly it’s better to avoid snake bites if you can. Beyond the risk to your pet, the treatment is expensive—often more than $2,500. Beyond the normal costs of emergency care, the average vial of antivenom costs $600 to $1000, and your pet may need more than one. “The antivenom is so expensive, we only give as much as we have to,” says Dr. Carotenuto.
rattlers are pretty common around here, Having raised hounds for years i'm kinda surprised i never had one bit, plenty of porcupine problems, (if you have never sat on a snarling growling hound pulling quills at 2:00 AM, trust me its not for the light at heart)
But yea you just learn to watch for them, and NO they do not always rattle, saw this one the other afternoon...People from downstate , not accustom to being in snake country show up at the cabins every weekend...shorts and flip flops, and when they see a rattler...it's usually panic time.
Rut Nut apparently that dog is tougher than you.
Must not have gotten a full dose of venom. Lucky. Glad to hear things went well. Who doesn’t love a beagle! And Rut Nut! ;-)
Very glad your beagle survived - that had to be a very frieghtening experience for you snd your pup.
Lewis - here in middle TN we call it "re-homing", which is nothing more than the S3 rule.
Snake training: I can 2nd or 3rd the effectiveness of snake training. We lived in TX for many years and hunted in snake country with our quail with a very hyperactive brittany.
Trainers used 2 different "defanged" snakes with one snake having its tail duct taped to keep it silent. Dogs were trained to avoid the sound of the rattles as well as their scent.
We had Freckles snake trained when she was 12 months old and brought her back annually for refresher training 2x afterwards.
Through the years we had multiple rattler encounters and she avoided being bitten each time.
Again, we're glad your pup is ok.
LOL Mule! For sure! I couldn’t imagine getting bit in the FACE............... : (
I was pre season scouting one year on a very , steep, thick ,rocky mt...got down on all fours to crawl under a big blown over tree rather than go around. when i dropped down i was literally face to face with a big yellow Timber rattler, like 2' or less face to face....lucky for me he was in a good mood, he rattled slightly and slithered down in the rocks.
I'm thinking it would not have gone well getting bit in the face....far from the truck, no cell....probably would have gotten pretty ugly.
We have all our pups snake avoidance trained. Many years ago, one of our previous dogs, was bitten 2 weeks before she was to attend the course. She spent a couple of days in intensive care, but recovered in time to take the course. Our newest pup, a 1 1/2 year old lab, just went through it. She actually ran over, and stepped on a snake, a year ago without being bit. It seemed to really scare her, though. While all dogs are different, I highly recommend the course. It's not foolproof, but it gives most dogs at least a pause when encountering a snake. Also, all our dogs are collar trained , so I reinforce the training with a freshly killed, beheaded snake when I kill one.
They also get the rattlesnake vaccine. It doesn't make them immune, but may give you more time to get to a vet.
I also recommend health insurance for your pups, especially working dogs. It's always more than paid for itself for us. And then we don't have to worry about exorbitant vet bills.
Glad your dog is getting through it.
I am also a vet that treats snakebite every year. I highly recommend the rattlesnake vaccine. Best recommendation I can make is that I give it to my own dog every spring. We recommend hunting dogs get it in the spring and fall. No, it doesn’t save every dog that is bitten, but it does give you a fighting chance and a little more time to get to the vet. It also seems to limit swelling/skin damage more than unvaccinated dogs.
The face is actually the best place to be bitten. No big muscles or blood vessels. Swells up quickly and that actually helps contain the venom
My standard snakebite treatment:
Anti venom , I V fluids, IV cortisone (one dose at the beginning only), pain killers, and antibiotics. One of the few dogs I lost to snakebite was to septicemia from secondary infection. Was a big dog and owner didnt bring it after the bite until it was septic.
The vaccine is excellent for western diamondback I've researched and talked to Vets at the company and they mol said it's a crap shoot for the eastern diamondbacks,timber rattlers,pygmy rattlers and moccasins here in Florida.In fact now you have to get special permission from the State Vet to use it.(last time I checked).But I'd definitely use it if I lived west of the Mississippi.
Beendare, what kind of skin is backed on that top bow, Timber rattler?
Looks like eastern diamondback
My bet it’s a Timber they come in all kinds of shades good luck Lewis
14 rattles!
14 rattles!
We had this Western Diamondback strike out at us while driving by in the Ranger this Spring in West TX-all I could think about was the venom load a snake like this was carrying! I am 6 feet tall so this snake is approaching 7 feet! He's at the taxidermist now....
Dang No Mercy, you could back a whole bow with that one, both limbs...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to see the anti-venom bill for that one! : (
That’s if there was an anti venom bill Rut Nut…
YIKES. Man I really don't like snakes.....
Yeah, good point Nick!
My leg is hurting just looking at that pic! : (
Beendare knows how to relocate them
Glad to hear your dog is on the mend. Scary.
My sister and BIL like in the Black Hills of SD. They had a dog that was bitten on 2 different occasions. AV administered in both instances. Scary as the 2nd time was on the weekend. Had to wait for on call vet. BTW The definition of irony. The dog’s name was “Lucky”.
We have dogs hit by copperheads and it is amazing how quick they recover. Had an old friend that was a vetrinarian got hit by a copperhead, he wrote down the time and killed the snake. They took him to the hospital and he told them the time and brought the snake. They said "are you having offensive reactions to horse seruem? As a vet he said how the hell do I know. SOO, they did nothing and his leg got real black and big but he got over it. It was extremely painful and lasted for days.
What the heck is "horse seruem"?
That’s how anti-venom is made. They inject a small amount of snake venom into a horse and when it produces anti-bodies, they take some blood (from the horse) and the anti-bodies become the anti-venom. In other words, the horse’s anti-bodies neutralize the snake venom.
Although this(horse serum anti-venom) may become a thing of the past. Researchers are now working on a synthetic anti-venom in pill form that could make treatment much faster, more readily available and could cut the cost substantially!
Interesting Rut Nut, thanks for sharing,,,
I'm glad your dog is doing OK. That's a big rattler No Mercy...probably break your leg if it bit you
Damn it! Glad he is doing better.
You’re welcome Zbone.
My toxicologist at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center told me about the new synthetic anti-venom when I was there. He said I got bit about 10 years too soon! ;-)
Neighbor gave me this one yesterday I just tacked it out to dry.The board is 6 1/2 foot. His 3 6mo old pups had it bayed 5 yards from his back door. :0
Dang, I hate snakes. Even the non poisonous variety. The only time anyone will hear me scream like a little girl is when a snake slithers around me. Lol
Rut Nut, I could be wrong and I am too lazy to look it up right now but... Crofab is what is commonly used as antivenom in North America. I believe it is derived from sheep.
Yes- sheep and goats are the other animals used to make anti-venom. Not sure which ones use which animals...........................
Edit: I looked it up and you are right- CroFab uses sheep
Just for grins I will post the labels on the antivenin we use:
I take it that Antivenin is for dogs, cats and horses, not for humans?
Yep. My patients are dogs cats and horses..
Cat snakebites are rare, but had one last month on the front leg. This antivenin was part of a treatment that saved him. Lost a lot of tissue on his forearm but seems to have 95% function of that leg.
Zbone- antivenin and antivenom are the same thing- just different terminology. It is used for both humans and animals. I'm assuming txhunter has the one for animals since he is a veterinarian.
Pretty much synonyms.
https://www.askdifference.com/antivenom-vs-antivenin/
Don’t think it really matters what species you are discussing. I have actually always spelled antivenom, but spelled it here like it was on the box.
I will say this though. The antivenom we have used in the past was very purified and very small volume. The current antivenin is a 50 ml bag of horse plasma that has antibiodies in to snake venom. That could be the actual difference.
