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About 10 years ago she was shooting a sub 300gr arrow with 75g Muzzy 3 blade … I watched her perfect shot bounce harmlessly off a gemsbok’s rib … I don’t want a repeat of that!

Thanks, WTF

Do you compound guys have any idea how many pounds you’d have to draw to shoot that arrow from a recurve???

Frame of reference… A 2219 arrow at about 500 grains (which is around what you get for a 27” 2219 with a 100 gr broadhead) has a dynamic spine rating of a bit over 140.

A well made recurve will throw a 500 gr arrow about 225 fps at around #75, if your arms aren’t too short.

Please keep the info coming guys - I am concocting a couple ideas for her best moose arrows. Whatever I settle on - I’ll post it on this thread as well as our real world results.

Good luck on your moose hunt

If you don’t get the penetration that you wanted out of a Contraption, it’s on YOU, not the draw weight. The horsepower is there; you just can’t waste it.

My setup was a 58# recurve shooing a 600 grain arrow at about 170fps and I am 100 percent sure I could have gotten away with less poundage as long at the arrow weight was hefty

Project Moose Missile … I have a few old 340 spine arrows kicking around (FMJ, Gold Tip etc) - will experiment with varying point weights and cutting shafts down until we find one that flies well for her. Goal will be a taw of just north of 500 grains. At this weight, I am gonna impose a 25 yard max distance - set the slider for 20 and never move it. I’m expecting that we will need a 150 grain broadhead to exceed 500 taw. Iron Will 150g SB maybe … For ample steering, I think I’ll use four 3” x-vanes. Any comments, suggestions - snide remarks?

With a 500 up to even 700 grain arrow, I would not shy away from 40 + yard shots if she practices with the setup…

This year for elk on my compound I’m shooting an Easton fmj 340, 75 grain half out insert, 100 grain Simmons Mako broadhead. I’m going to be pretty close to right around the 500 grain taw.

APauls - I remember that Vicki C … her gimmick was that she hunted with an Oompa Loompa. Between her 40lbs and his 22” draw, they still killed a bunch of moose.

Butcherboy - I will check out the Simmons. I have a buddy who has a couple German Kinetics 200 grain 2 blades collecting dust. I’m going to have her shoot several different point weights to see which flies best for her.

Thanks to all for the advice. I’ll keep you updated. WTF

Well done on the moose! Awesome.

I drew a N CO cow tag a couple years back, shot at 30y twice right before dark- two complete pass throughs- 46#, 553g arrow, 2 blade head…..both arrows barely slowed down. She never felt the first arrow, just stood there looking around….she went maybe 10 steps after the second.

First bull I ever shot had broken ribs in AND out - but that was 70lb/29” …

Pretty safe bet no ribs were broken; ask anyone who has ever cracked one if they noticed it when it happened…

@Beendare - do you happen to know the velocity of that arrow?

Last year shot my best Mule deer and this Bull w a 40# @26" Bear TD.

Using a mouth tab I had perfect arrow flight bare shaft. Old carbon patriots shafts 45/60 spine (whatever that comes to w sizing these days) 200 gr up front-Cutthroat right single bevel two blade broadhead. 560 gr total arrow weight, 28% FOC.

Called this Bull in to 20ft. Shot at 15yds broadside thru both lungs. Broadhead penetrated off side about 1/2". 45 paces recovery, died in sight. Broadhead was mirror finish razor sharp.

My first arrow broke ribs in and out. The second arrow hit between the ribs on entry and broke a rib on the way out. She must have cut her head when falling......both shots were broadside at 30y.

Now that I've killed a bunch of critters with that same setup...I chuckle at the guys that think they need an 80# compound....or a massively heavy arrow with Uber FOC....nope, just make sure its flying well with an efficient BH.

These very INEFFICIENT over the top Mech heads have everyone thinking they need a howitzer to put and arrow through a critter. I shot the Trad nationals with the Montana State champ at the time and he killed a lot of critters with a 45#/400-ish arrow.

I saw my buddy shoot a 250# boar with a thick shield; 40# recurve, 440g arrow and that arrow hardly slowed down.

Lots of guys have drank the KOOL AID..... "Massive tip weight...or a very heavy arrow...or a single Bevel".....Nope, you really don't.....in fact, you are more likely to miss what you are aiming at with those massively heavy arrows and extremely high FOC.

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I think lack of tuning is likely the largest cause of poor penetration. An arrow flying that does not delivery 100% of it's energy through the tip of the arrow is going to slow down drastically. It's why arrows penetrate so darn well at long distances. All the wobble has been stabilized right out and that thing is a pure dart.

Many would either gone x-gun or walked away, keep doing the walk.

Enjoy your hunt-

Its a testament to how effective the avg Bow and arrow is as a killing weapon that it can work with a variety of setups.

Her tag is valid starting middle of October, so if we are going to call one in, it will have to be in the first week or so. Otherwise, the rut will be over and we will have to employ other tactics. Either way, we are going to limit our shot to 30 yards. I’m not concerned with the trajectory penalty of a heavier arrow. Our testing and tuning has been put on hold for a bit - I cut her bowstring while adjusting the peep. Custom threads are on the way …

Gun - you are the real deal. Hats off to you … even if your handle isn’t the best :)

I shortened the story for brevity…

I found the cow about 15 minutes from the end of shooting light feeding like crazy in a burn. She was oblivious to anything else, just mowing down the new green growth and crunching along in the gravel.

It was an easy stalk, I think I could have walked in on her- not much skill involved and not much of a hunt, a bit of a layup truth be told.

I shot her at 30y BS behind the shoulder at a little bit less than 1/2 way up the body. She stopped feeding and quickly looked around, did a slow 180 and stood there now offering me the opposite side with her head up looking around. This all took maybe 10 seconds.

I shot her again and she reacted a little, doing another 360, stood there looking around coughed and staggered about 6 steps and going down a small embankment into a creek.

I’ve shot a bunch of critters that had little reaction to a cut on contact BH. Clueless Hogs that looked up and started tusking the pig next to them. I shot a bull elk through both scapulas that just stood there after the shot. I can give the doubters my buddy Kirks number that was calling for me and witnessed the elk …or Tims number that saw the whole moose kill.

You guys might want to try being stealthy without being made on the shot …..and get out and kill something with these 2 blades and find out for yourself….grin

I have a similar one where the buck resumed eating clover after the pass-thru. He was dead on his feet so I didn’t bother with a second shot. 5 seconds later he tipped. I can’t remember if I hit ribs or not on that one.

New string for her bow is shipping today. I’m excited to get back at tuning her bow and building that moose killer arrow. Going to wait until after the June Iron Will giveaway is decided before I reveal my bh choice. Mama needs a 150g single bevel!! :)

I just think its funny that guys are so wrapped up in their uber heavy arrow ideology they are willing to make stuff up that a guy can shoot 2 complete pass thru shots and avoid the ribs completely.

I’m a pretty good shot with that bow but not that good- grin.

My thought is she heard the arrow when it hit the ground on the other side of her…thats why she was looking around over there and never even saw me even after the second shot.

Nope. Not at all. Just asking a question. It’s just I’ve never NOT hit ribs and never NOT had one run, so I went way out on a limb to surmise that getting a rib broken hurts enough to make them want to run away.

Personally, I hope I never have to find out first-hand about hunting with a bow that light, but it’s somewhat reassuring to know that it can be done….

A bow is a magnificent weapon, so long as you don’t hobble it with poor tuning, a too-light arrow, or an god-awfully inefficient broadhead design. YES, there are guys (like Adam) who apparently do everything else right and have ample horsepower to spare, and more power to them. Literally.

As a bandaid for poor tuning, not so much.

I get that… but what’s “really fast”? What’s “really big”?

Why are so many people convinced that either one is necessary or beneficial when super-fast arrows and enormous cutting widths seem to breed more problems than they solve?

And why are the vast majority of bowhunters these days somehow convinced that the same equipment that has been working just fine for 60,000 years has become inadequate in the last 50?

Something just doesn’t add up….

For a smart guy, that’s a dumb thought. I wonder if the original archers had to endure oppositional ridicule from the Rock Throwers.

“These stones have been killing meat since forever.”

There's definitely something to be said with animals running after being hit with a mech. Call me weird but I actually prefer hitting an animal in the boiler and having it run out of sight, and getting to follow the trail. It's like finding the best ever easter egg. Adds another level of excitement beyond getting the shot.

I get Adam’s point about the blood trail challenge, but if that’s really what turns your crank, what’s wrong with a “regular”-sized wound channel and exit?

I've seen amazing results with 2 blade heads. Even when I was shooting a 46# recurve, It was rare NOT to get a passthru.

Contrast that to many of the YouTube vids and guys I've guided shooting big mech heads that can't shoot through a relatively thin skinned critter even with high poundage.

Hey, mech heads work but I think 2 blades and tapered COC 3 blades work better. Its really only been in the last 1/2 decade where the new 'Better Mouse trap' BH designs took over.

2 blades turn a low energy setup into a penetrating monster. Its easy to shoot them for group and to BH test, then touch up and in your quiver. Or to reuse them. I like that system.

I like the double bevels as I can spin check them for perfect alignment with the pointed tip- the SB heads have a weaker less supported edge and a flatter tip which isn't as easy to get perfect. Plus I've seen reports where that rotation in the animal inhibited penetration. Multiple disadvantages. It seems to me, SB's are a problem looking for a solution.

I believe you mentioned in another post that you were still shooting aluminums and carbons from your "trad" bow. Shouldn't you "shed' that technology and put up with the limits. Wood shaft, self cut feathers, stone point and sinew? Actually, is your bow all wood?

I just get a kick out of people that disdain any technology beyond what THEY are using.

The OP was asking about maximizing the benefits of technology to get the best results from a lower poundage bow. Not limiting it for "the glory of the hunt".

And I believe a few people answered that. Beendare testified that it can easily be done, as did a few others. And Carcus nailed it very simply.

I have put mechanicals through moose and lots of other animals, but he's not asking about my set up or yours, he's asking about his good wife's bow with it's limits. And I've no doubt that the team will get it right and pull it of.

I’ll keep you updated on our chosen setup and the outcome of the hunt.

Related topic: as the first step in converting the wife to a controlled release, I switched her to a resistance release. The Carter Attraction can be switched between resistance and thumb - FYI. She was freaked out by it at first, but picked it up very quickly. The improvement in her groups was immediate - she is shooting so well now compared to before, that she doesn’t want to switch from resistance to thumb. What do y’all think? Proceed to the thumb, or hunt with resistance?

Nice work on the moose Crystal!! By your trophy photos, looks like you’re a stone cold killer.

I’m finding it extremely difficult to poke any holes in that logic. Just as long as she grooves it to where there’s no chance she’ll revert to some other technique under stress. But I would think that if she’s happy now, you should let her keep doing what she’s doing until her body doesn’t know any other way.

At least I can sleep better now.

Pulled out some old FMJs that I had from my overdraw shelf “need for speed” days … they are perfect length for her. We played with various tip weights and angels sang at 200 grains. I didn’t even consult a spine chart - the tears are perfect. This results in a taw of 525 grains - a definite moose missile. So now I am shopping for a 200 grain 2 blade coc. Suggestions?

Maybe she will get lucky and I’ll win a pack on the IW giveaway.

I am going to take a swing at doing a semi-live account of her hunt here on the Bowsite. She is determined to get it done - practicing every day. WTF

I’m not certain, but fairly sure that I would be the happiest guy on Bowsite if I had (and could comfortably draw/shoot accurately) a hot-rod longbow that could throw that much weight as fast as her Contraption does. And I’d probably settle for a recurve if I could pull it off with that….

And in the real world for me with a shorter DL - let’s knock 10% off the power stroke and we’ll assume that the calculator is based on data collected from a shooting machine with a mechanical release, which holds for your wife but is going to cost me some…. So figure we probably ought to be looking for closer to 225 out of the calculator to come out at 200 fps from my fingers, so now we’re up to…. About #80. #82, to be real precise about it.

Still worried? ;)

I’m gonna go tune some arrows for my #62….

Just wanted some input from the BS crowd - call it bowbender affirming care. LOL There’s a lot of experience out in the trad community and among those who play in the low dw world. This setup of hers is landing almost exactly where I thought it would. As long as she doesn’t centerpunch the shoulder, I do not expect her arrow to even slow down as it goes thru the moose. She and I have a mule deer hunt together in September. As soon as we get back, she’s gonna switch to the 525g arrow. She will have about two weeks to practice with it before moose go-time on October 15th. We have a grandchild due at the end of October, so she has to get it done before November rolls in.

They stop dead in bone where the straight 2 blades tend to break through.

And I’ll assume you’re pulling our collective leg, seeing as additional penetration on that hit would avail you naught….

I’ve been working up a load for my #62-ish LB…. It calls for a little over 81 pounds spine rating (according to the calculator) and I’m curious to see what I can get out of it according to a chrono, but the nominal performance spec looks pretty solid…

That’s a 2117 with a 150 up front; I also have a recipe for a 400 carbon with 200 up front which is virtually identical, save for the FOC number….

Might actually go to a 350 on this one, bit we’ll see… I’ve been accumulating arrows for this bow for about 5 years now, so hoping to be able to use what I’ve got….

I had given him those BH’s….I didn’t like the bleeders and knob on the ferrule.

I shot the bull 2 x and the second time was videoed… the arrow completely disappeared inside the bulls chest cavity…

Guys with energy to burn compounds don’t notice it but those short chisel heads…and the heads with the short stubby accessory blades plow and have resistance in the wound channel. A smooth tapered cut on contact 2 or 3 blade slices in…not chopping its way in (an exaggeration to help describe it)

Yeah, its being picky….but then I see guys like Lee Lakowski ‘s arrow stop dead on a buffalo (short/wide BH) when I’ve seen my straight 2 blades go through big critters like a hot knife through butter.

Now Lee got enough penetration to kill that buff- some would say its a moot point. I’m in the camp where I want a pass through…and those straight 2 blades give it to me even with my old setup that didn’t make 40 KE