Contributors to this thread:
Low draw weight for moose
Wife drew a moose tag for the bowzone at home. Looking for advice on taw and bh from any of you who have been down this road, and successfully killed a moose with less than 45lb/27”DL.
About 10 years ago she was shooting a sub 300gr arrow with 75g Muzzy 3 blade … I watched her perfect shot bounce harmlessly off a gemsbok’s rib … I don’t want a repeat of that!
I helped a small woman who killed a Shiras moose with a 45# @ 26" longbow. She used a 425 grain arrow, 2 blade COC, and got a passthrough, killed the moose dealer than hell, and quickly.
I would think 45# with a heavier arrow and broadhead as jaq described would work, just have to get the best tuned rig that you can . Good luck to you and yours on the hunt.
I know two older guys (Marv Clynke and Wayne Depperschmidt) that killed Shiras bull moose in Colorado with 40-45 pound longbows. I know that Wayne got a pass-thru with a 4-blade broadhead. Not sure about Marv's setup but could ask.
Thanks jaq. Turns out I just made her a batch of 420 grain Axis arrows before she drew the tag. What broadhead did your friend use? I have no experience with 2 blades - I’ve always shot 3.
My Daughter arrowed this Cow Buff at 25 yds with 48#s and a 2219 Aluminum arrow tipped with a 3 blade Rocky Mountain premier. Went 60 yds. Her arrow penetrated about 27".. Total arrow weight in the 500+,- grs
A friend of mine killed a Shiras moose with a Border style recurve / long bow, 39 lbs. Some coc fixed head. Border bows are from Scotland
When I first started bow hunting I shot Bear broadheads, 145 grains. I’ve killed elk with them and have seen many elk killed with them as well. I gravitated towards 4 blade muzzy, then 3 blade muzzy’s for years. Then went to 3 blade VPA’s. After that I wanted my old school 2 blades again for penetration. Shot cutthroat’s for a few years and killed elk with them as well. Now, I’m shooting Simmons 175 grain swamp sharks off my longbow and 100 grain Simmons Mako off my compound. So far, I’ve been very impressed with them and hope to put one through an elk this fall. Definitely have your wife shoot a sharp two blade with the right amount of foc up front. Not too much foc. What spine of axis is she shooting? 400, 500?
Thanks guys! Her arrow is 400 spine. 27” ctc. 50 grain outsert - broadhead not yet chosen. I was going to have her shoot a 100grain head which would make her taw 420. But I might have enough spine for her to shoot a 125 grain head.
“48#s and a 2219 Aluminum arrow”
Do you compound guys have any idea how many pounds you’d have to draw to shoot that arrow from a recurve???
Frame of reference… A 2219 arrow at about 500 grains (which is around what you get for a 27” 2219 with a 100 gr broadhead) has a dynamic spine rating of a bit over 140.
A well made recurve will throw a 500 gr arrow about 225 fps at around #75, if your arms aren’t too short.
For what it's worth, my son completely shattered a bull moose front leg with a 400 spine Easton carbon 400 grain arrow and a 100 grain Slick Trick. The range was about 30 yards and he was able to quickly put him down with a double lung shot. We have since gone to 125 grain Slick Tricks which seem to penetrate even more with a little tighter groups. Although His draw weight was probably quite a bit more than she will be drawing, I think that she would be fine with something similar with a 125 grain head
Badbull - what was your son’s dw and dl?? Compound I assume …
Trevor, compound bow, dw70 lbs,dl 28". I know that you are focusing on a lower dw but from what others have experienced and say the dw and dl my son used is way more than needed for good penetration on a moose. I and another son have shot bull moose with a single arrow in the weight range stated and they all went down within 40 yards or less. The moose in Wyoming and Colorado are such that I believe getting the tag is the hard part. Getting into an effective range does not seem that difficult in our experience. Good luck to your wife. If she can get good shot placement at her effective range she will be successful. Bob
Thanks Bob. Ya I’ve shot several moose with my 70# 29” bows and blown thru every one, breaking bones with everything from 450 to 600 grain coc tipped arrows. Also had a bad experience in Africa - poor penetration with her 45# bow and a very light chisel tipped arrow.
Please keep the info coming guys - I am concocting a couple ideas for her best moose arrows. Whatever I settle on - I’ll post it on this thread as well as our real world results.
This is an interesting subject for me as I have some grandkids with lower draw weight bows (and maybe me as I age). I think that good penetration can be a problem for all big game so I am curious about what you come up with in your findings.
Moat game in North America was killed with 40 to 50 lbs bows for thousands of years.
Good luck on your moose hunt
The original post was asking about draw weight (under 45# at 27”).
Do the math. Arrow Mass X Feet/Second for your bow, then go see how many pounds of recurve or longbow are required to equal what you’re getting.
If you don’t get the penetration that you wanted out of a Contraption, it’s on YOU, not the draw weight. The horsepower is there; you just can’t waste it.
I've only killed one moose so take this with a grain of salt but I think the main issue is to stay at or over 500 grain and get an efficient broadhead. Get her a true cut on contact and stay at 500ish and I'd say she will blow through moose so fast with any legal draw weight.
My setup was a 58# recurve shooing a 600 grain arrow at about 170fps and I am 100 percent sure I could have gotten away with less poundage as long at the arrow weight was hefty
Ok here’s the plan. Gonna carry on with tuning her new bow to shoot her 400 spine Axis arrows. They are 420 taw with a 100g head. This is her every day arrow - for deer, 3D and shooting in the yard. No doubt this arrow is capable, but we’re going to go heavier.
Project Moose Missile … I have a few old 340 spine arrows kicking around (FMJ, Gold Tip etc) - will experiment with varying point weights and cutting shafts down until we find one that flies well for her. Goal will be a taw of just north of 500 grains. At this weight, I am gonna impose a 25 yard max distance - set the slider for 20 and never move it. I’m expecting that we will need a 150 grain broadhead to exceed 500 taw. Iron Will 150g SB maybe … For ample steering, I think I’ll use four 3” x-vanes. Any comments, suggestions - snide remarks?
You might need to increase point weight to get it to tune. That is not a bad thing. I would work more from the broadhead back to the arrow. A 200 grain BH will out penetrate that 150 grain head…
With a 500 up to even 700 grain arrow, I would not shy away from 40 + yard shots if she practices with the setup…
Can it be done? Yes That doesn't mean it should be done. This is why Ontario has a minimum 50lb draw weight for moose.
A 45# bow and a sharp two blade BH and proper arrow placement, dead animal. You might do a you tube search and see what others have done.
A 45# bow and a sharp two blade BH and proper arrow placement, dead animal. You might do a you tube search and see what others have done.
If you watch the moose mania videos with Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo she shoots a pile of moose with a 40lb bow. Good pump up vids as well as something you can watch for validation. It can be done easy. A 40lb compound today is such an efficient arrow slinging machine. At around 500gr with a COC head she'll be in great shape. I've got a great video of my brother shooting a nice bull with a 50lb recurve. That's substantially less "bow" than what your wife will be using. Enjoy and looking forward to the results!!!
VPA and Simmons broadheads plus a few more out there all have weights that range from 100 to 200 grains. I’m really liking the Simmons. They open a big hole for a fixed blade coc.
This year for elk on my compound I’m shooting an Easton fmj 340, 75 grain half out insert, 100 grain Simmons Mako broadhead. I’m going to be pretty close to right around the 500 grain taw.
Kannuk - the legal minimum is SK is 40lbs. Gonna tweak her bow up a couple more lbs from her current 42. She is determined to be pulling 50 by October, but I think that’s too much. Based on the feedback I’m getting here - we are ok at 44-45.
APauls - I remember that Vicki C … her gimmick was that she hunted with an Oompa Loompa. Between her 40lbs and his 22” draw, they still killed a bunch of moose.
Butcherboy - I will check out the Simmons. I have a buddy who has a couple German Kinetics 200 grain 2 blades collecting dust. I’m going to have her shoot several different point weights to see which flies best for her.
Thanks to all for the advice. I’ll keep you updated. WTF
Minimum Poundage and Minimum arrow weight..... Shot right through him at ~ 15 yards.
Mallards - what was the poundage and the arrow weight? Also interested in the broadhead choice. Do pink cams help penetration?? A well placed shot certainly does.
Well done on the moose! Awesome.
I suggest a heavy arrow and a quality 2 blade 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" BH
A 2 blade turns any good flying arrow into a penetrating monster.
I drew a N CO cow tag a couple years back, shot at 30y twice right before dark- two complete pass throughs- 46#, 553g arrow, 2 blade head…..both arrows barely slowed down. She never felt the first arrow, just stood there looking around….she went maybe 10 steps after the second.
would a single bevel be ok like 250 gr Cuttthroat?
Sure, as long as it flies great and you get it scary sharp. The problem with EFOC is that some people think that's enough, and overlook a little arrow wobble which negates whatever penetration advantage EFOC might provide.
Thanks Beendare. What’s with the gash on the side of the head? I’m not surprised that the arrow didn’t slow down if you missed ribs entirely. But what if you’re not so lucky? Do you remember the autopsy? I am curious - broken ribs or missed ribs??
First bull I ever shot had broken ribs in AND out - but that was 70lb/29” …
“ She never felt the first arrow, just stood there looking around…”
Pretty safe bet no ribs were broken; ask anyone who has ever cracked one if they noticed it when it happened…
@Beendare - do you happen to know the velocity of that arrow?
If the setup bounced an arrow off the rib cage of a gemsbok I doubt you will fare any better using the same setup on moose. Arrow construction and a good cut on contact 2 blade head are your best bet, in addition to accurate shot placement.
I had shoulder surgery a year ago March. Two torn tendons and complete rotator cuff overhaul w a Cadaver graft. In a wedge padded sling for 3 months 24/7. I shot w my teeth and a mouth tab season before and killed 3 does. I used Jeff Fabry's system from YouTube.
Last year shot my best Mule deer and this Bull w a 40# @26" Bear TD.
Using a mouth tab I had perfect arrow flight bare shaft. Old carbon patriots shafts 45/60 spine (whatever that comes to w sizing these days) 200 gr up front-Cutthroat right single bevel two blade broadhead. 560 gr total arrow weight, 28% FOC.
Called this Bull in to 20ft. Shot at 15yds broadside thru both lungs. Broadhead penetrated off side about 1/2". 45 paces recovery, died in sight. Broadhead was mirror finish razor sharp.
You guys are making claims that are plain wrong. I was there- grin
My first arrow broke ribs in and out. The second arrow hit between the ribs on entry and broke a rib on the way out. She must have cut her head when falling......both shots were broadside at 30y.
Now that I've killed a bunch of critters with that same setup...I chuckle at the guys that think they need an 80# compound....or a massively heavy arrow with Uber FOC....nope, just make sure its flying well with an efficient BH.
These very INEFFICIENT over the top Mech heads have everyone thinking they need a howitzer to put and arrow through a critter. I shot the Trad nationals with the Montana State champ at the time and he killed a lot of critters with a 45#/400-ish arrow.
I saw my buddy shoot a 250# boar with a thick shield; 40# recurve, 440g arrow and that arrow hardly slowed down.
Lots of guys have drank the KOOL AID..... "Massive tip weight...or a very heavy arrow...or a single Bevel".....Nope, you really don't.....in fact, you are more likely to miss what you are aiming at with those massively heavy arrows and extremely high FOC.
its amazing to me how many guys don't understand the factors involved, and how effective the right bow/arrow/BH combos really are...and then they get sold a bunch of hooey on the internet.
I think it stems from guys having poor performance on game with large inefficient mech heads. First, the guys using mech heads are doing it because they have a penetration robbing arrow wobble that they can't tune out. Then add that mech head requires a lot of energy to open. Lastly, Physics tells us that resistance goes up exponentially with the speed of the arrow.....
So we have very fast and light arrows with a tiny wobble hitting critters with big mech heads...and they aren't performing well- who is surprised? The guys shooting tuned bows that have good arrow flight and are using a somewhat efficient BH that doesn't create a lot of resistance on contact are crushing these critters.
Trying to solve penetration issues on avg critters by going to a massively heavy arrow or uber FOC is like solving accident avoidance by driving a big 2 1/2 ton commercial truck to the grocery store. They actually create more issues than they solve.
Some guys shoot mech heads because they've tuned their setups and can afford the marginal inefficiency of the design and enjoy large holes for their efforts.
I think lack of tuning is likely the largest cause of poor penetration. An arrow flying that does not delivery 100% of it's energy through the tip of the arrow is going to slow down drastically. It's why arrows penetrate so darn well at long distances. All the wobble has been stabilized right out and that thing is a pure dart.
Gun, your dedication to the hunt successfully with the trad bow is a high bar that very few would even take ( never give up).
Many would either gone x-gun or walked away, keep doing the walk.
Enjoy your hunt-
“Some guys shoot mech heads because they've tuned their setups and can afford the marginal inefficiency of the design and enjoy large holes for their efforts.” You don’t have to defend your choice of mechs- they work. I was just explaining the physical characteristics of different setups for the OP.
Its a testament to how effective the avg Bow and arrow is as a killing weapon that it can work with a variety of setups.
Mechs are not an option here. Perfect arrow flight and 2 blade coc are a must in this scenario.
Her tag is valid starting middle of October, so if we are going to call one in, it will have to be in the first week or so. Otherwise, the rut will be over and we will have to employ other tactics. Either way, we are going to limit our shot to 30 yards. I’m not concerned with the trajectory penalty of a heavier arrow. Our testing and tuning has been put on hold for a bit - I cut her bowstring while adjusting the peep. Custom threads are on the way …
Gun - you are the real deal. Hats off to you … even if your handle isn’t the best :)
Wish there was a "like" button for Beendare's posts. I've "beendare" with low poundage trad bows many, many times.
How the heck can you break ribs without the critter knowing it’s been hit??? I’ve seen some odd stuff, but never seen THAT happen!
OMG, so you are calling me out Corax? So many keyboard warriors
I shortened the story for brevity…
I found the cow about 15 minutes from the end of shooting light feeding like crazy in a burn. She was oblivious to anything else, just mowing down the new green growth and crunching along in the gravel.
It was an easy stalk, I think I could have walked in on her- not much skill involved and not much of a hunt, a bit of a layup truth be told.
I shot her at 30y BS behind the shoulder at a little bit less than 1/2 way up the body. She stopped feeding and quickly looked around, did a slow 180 and stood there now offering me the opposite side with her head up looking around. This all took maybe 10 seconds.
I shot her again and she reacted a little, doing another 360, stood there looking around coughed and staggered about 6 steps and going down a small embankment into a creek.
I’ve shot a bunch of critters that had little reaction to a cut on contact BH. Clueless Hogs that looked up and started tusking the pig next to them. I shot a bull elk through both scapulas that just stood there after the shot. I can give the doubters my buddy Kirks number that was calling for me and witnessed the elk …or Tims number that saw the whole moose kill.
You guys might want to try being stealthy without being made on the shot …..and get out and kill something with these 2 blades and find out for yourself….grin
Beendare - please pm me the phone numbers so I can fact check :)
I have a similar one where the buck resumed eating clover after the pass-thru. He was dead on his feet so I didn’t bother with a second shot. 5 seconds later he tipped. I can’t remember if I hit ribs or not on that one.
New string for her bow is shipping today. I’m excited to get back at tuning her bow and building that moose killer arrow. Going to wait until after the June Iron Will giveaway is decided before I reveal my bh choice. Mama needs a 150g single bevel!! :)
I just think its funny that guys are so wrapped up in their uber heavy arrow ideology they are willing to make stuff up that a guy can shoot 2 complete pass thru shots and avoid the ribs completely.
I’m a pretty good shot with that bow but not that good- grin.
My thought is she heard the arrow when it hit the ground on the other side of her…thats why she was looking around over there and never even saw me even after the second shot.
“ OMG, so you are calling me out Corax? ”
Nope. Not at all. Just asking a question. It’s just I’ve never NOT hit ribs and never NOT had one run, so I went way out on a limb to surmise that getting a rib broken hurts enough to make them want to run away.
And FWIW I’m totally with you on mechanical heads, 2-blades, and the overall silliness of people thinking that they need a bow that performs like a #95+ recurve to kill a #150 whitetail when there are credible people reporting clean pass-throughs with stickbows that may not even make most states’ legal minimums, strictly speaking.
Personally, I hope I never have to find out first-hand about hunting with a bow that light, but it’s somewhat reassuring to know that it can be done….
A bow is a magnificent weapon, so long as you don’t hobble it with poor tuning, a too-light arrow, or an god-awfully inefficient broadhead design. YES, there are guys (like Adam) who apparently do everything else right and have ample horsepower to spare, and more power to them. Literally.
As a bandaid for poor tuning, not so much.
A two blade head has a reasonable good chance of not hitting a rib. A three blade has almost no chance. But you need a bigger two blade to get the same inches of cut as a three (or four blade). And really big, fixed two blades don't fly well out of a fast compound. They might at the range with perfect conditions and form, but not so much in an actual hunting scenario.
Id say grab some properly spined FMJ's and add a 100-125gr COC and go kill that moose
“ And really big, fixed two blades don't fly well out of a fast compound. ”
I get that… but what’s “really fast”? What’s “really big”?
Why are so many people convinced that either one is necessary or beneficial when super-fast arrows and enormous cutting widths seem to breed more problems than they solve?
And why are the vast majority of bowhunters these days somehow convinced that the same equipment that has been working just fine for 60,000 years has become inadequate in the last 50?
Something just doesn’t add up….
^^^ “… the same equipment that has been working just fine for 60,000 years has become inadequate in the last 50?”
For a smart guy, that’s a dumb thought. I wonder if the original archers had to endure oppositional ridicule from the Rock Throwers.
“These stones have been killing meat since forever.”
Believe it or not I actually shot my first black bear with a thunderhead that didn't know it was hit. Just stood there bleeding and keeled over. When we skinned it out it looked like the head had passed between ribs on both sides and barely touched them if at all. Might be one in a million but every million shots it's gotta happen...
There's definitely something to be said with animals running after being hit with a mech. Call me weird but I actually prefer hitting an animal in the boiler and having it run out of sight, and getting to follow the trail. It's like finding the best ever easter egg. Adds another level of excitement beyond getting the shot.
Thanks, Ambush!! I can always use a laugh… You just have to bear with me because I came of age with this warped perspective that the whole point of an Archery Season was to SHED technological advances and advantages…. Not that I wouldn’t jump on a stickbow that would shoot as fast for me as if I had another 3” of DL to work with….
I get Adam’s point about the blood trail challenge, but if that’s really what turns your crank, what’s wrong with a “regular”-sized wound channel and exit?
I used a Grim Reaper on my bear this year, it tipped over quick. I've shot tons with a 2" Rage and most went further than I would've expected. I agree Adam animals run further when hit by a mech, but it's kinda fun following the blood trail. With that said I also like watching them tip in sight.
Some good comments.... Shooting low energy trad setups has been an education for me;
I've seen amazing results with 2 blade heads. Even when I was shooting a 46# recurve, It was rare NOT to get a passthru.
Contrast that to many of the YouTube vids and guys I've guided shooting big mech heads that can't shoot through a relatively thin skinned critter even with high poundage.
Hey, mech heads work but I think 2 blades and tapered COC 3 blades work better. Its really only been in the last 1/2 decade where the new 'Better Mouse trap' BH designs took over.
2 blades turn a low energy setup into a penetrating monster. Its easy to shoot them for group and to BH test, then touch up and in your quiver. Or to reuse them. I like that system.
I like the double bevels as I can spin check them for perfect alignment with the pointed tip- the SB heads have a weaker less supported edge and a flatter tip which isn't as easy to get perfect. Plus I've seen reports where that rotation in the animal inhibited penetration. Multiple disadvantages. It seems to me, SB's are a problem looking for a solution.
"... that the whole point of an Archery Season was to SHED technological advances and advantages…. Not that I wouldn’t jump on a stickbow that would shoot as fast for me..."
I believe you mentioned in another post that you were still shooting aluminums and carbons from your "trad" bow. Shouldn't you "shed' that technology and put up with the limits. Wood shaft, self cut feathers, stone point and sinew? Actually, is your bow all wood?
I just get a kick out of people that disdain any technology beyond what THEY are using.
The OP was asking about maximizing the benefits of technology to get the best results from a lower poundage bow. Not limiting it for "the glory of the hunt".
And I believe a few people answered that. Beendare testified that it can easily be done, as did a few others. And Carcus nailed it very simply.
I have put mechanicals through moose and lots of other animals, but he's not asking about my set up or yours, he's asking about his good wife's bow with it's limits. And I've no doubt that the team will get it right and pull it of.
Well, I suppose he who is without sin should probably launch the first arrow, but functional equivalence is fine by me.
My plan is to get her bow dialed in for the ‘every day’ arrow. That one comes in at 420 taw. (a little under 10 grains per pound…). Based on some of the input here, I am beginning to doubt the need for that heavier arrow - but I’m going to tinker anyway. Plan is to leave the tune of the bow alone and play with tip weight on the heavy arrow until I find a combo that flies nicely. Carcus will be glad to hear that I have a few old fmj’s kicking around. I think they are 340 spine. With the right weight on the nose, this might end up being her moose missile.
I’ll keep you updated on our chosen setup and the outcome of the hunt.
I really like my fmj 340’s. Sure my arrow speed is slower but dang they hit hard, easy to tune my bow, bow is more quite. If I changed it would be to go with 400’s and a little lighter on the front. I think your wife’s set up with fmj’s would be better with a 400 spine then add weight to the front as needed to get the arrow to tune. Mine are 340 cut to 27 1/2”, 75 grain brass insert, 100 grain Simmons Mako. DL is 28”, bow is 68#. Thought about dropping down to 60# but my bow is older and Not as efficient as the newer ones are.
I shot this moose last year at 48 lb draw weight at around 45 yards. I did have to go get a second shot on it, but it was bedded down bleeding upon arrival and ultimately a success. Fixed blade Iron Will broadhead. Maxima Red SD 250 arrows.
If you decide to go single bevel I would shoot a marked, bare shaft about 3' from your target and see what way you arrow is naturally spinning. Based on that I would then fletch and bevel to match that rotation.
Thanks for the input. I replaced the bowstring that I cut, so her bow is back in action and she is shooting great. We have her ‘everyday arrow’ pretty much dialed in -now for the fun part. I have a bundle of old fmj 400 spine - plan is to play with points until I find one that flies. Then I’ll go shopping for a broadhead of that weight. Can’t play with inserts because hits are already installed.
Related topic: as the first step in converting the wife to a controlled release, I switched her to a resistance release. The Carter Attraction can be switched between resistance and thumb - FYI. She was freaked out by it at first, but picked it up very quickly. The improvement in her groups was immediate - she is shooting so well now compared to before, that she doesn’t want to switch from resistance to thumb. What do y’all think? Proceed to the thumb, or hunt with resistance?
Nice work on the moose Crystal!! By your trophy photos, looks like you’re a stone cold killer.
As far as the release goes, to me the answer is a no-brainer. You say she’s shooting great with the resistance activated and she doesn’t want to switch. Absolutely zero reason to make her switch.
“You say she’s shooting great with the resistance activated and she doesn’t want to switch. Absolutely zero reason to make her switch.”
I’m finding it extremely difficult to poke any holes in that logic. Just as long as she grooves it to where there’s no chance she’ll revert to some other technique under stress. But I would think that if she’s happy now, you should let her keep doing what she’s doing until her body doesn’t know any other way.
“I’m finding it extremely difficult to poke any holes in that logic”
At least I can sleep better now.
Thank you. I may change up my release as well since im getting a new bow string soon. Good luck on your all's hunt :o)
I think I already know the answer on the resistance release. Just looking for a reality check - or maybe someone who had good/bad experience with it ina hunting scenario. I struggled with my resistance release for months. She picked it up in 1 session - after years of being an epic trigger smasher!! Please - nobody tell her that what she has done is pretty much impossible :).
I take it the HIT’s were installed with epoxy then? I used epoxy once just to give it a try and I vowed to never do that again. I use the low heat hot melt. I will even screw my broadheads into the insert then glue all that in.
Carter Back Strap #1
Carter Back Strap #1
Carter Back Strap #2
Carter Back Strap #2
WtF, back when I was finally able to shake the effects of a World-Class case of target panic, a Carter Back Strap resistance activated release had a lot to do with overcoming that TP demon. I shot it exclusively for 2 hunting seasons. I took two shots at animals over those two years...these guys will attest to how well that release performed. BTW, my son still uses that same release to this day. In addition to being a great shot, he's killed multiple elk with it, including a 330 bull. Long story short, your wife will do just fine. ;-)
WYO - great pictures. Thanks for the input on the release and TP. I think we’re gonna stick with the resistance release - at least for this fall. She will have all winter to learn the thumb button if she so chooses.
Ok - so we finally got her tuned up for her ‘everyday’ 400+ grain arrow. Broadhead tuning out to 30, with groups in a 6” circle every time - and we still have a couple months to improve.
Pulled out some old FMJs that I had from my overdraw shelf “need for speed” days … they are perfect length for her. We played with various tip weights and angels sang at 200 grains. I didn’t even consult a spine chart - the tears are perfect. This results in a taw of 525 grains - a definite moose missile. So now I am shopping for a 200 grain 2 blade coc. Suggestions?
Maybe she will get lucky and I’ll win a pack on the IW giveaway.
I am going to take a swing at doing a semi-live account of her hunt here on the Bowsite. She is determined to get it done - practicing every day. WTF
You could go with some 150 grain Magnus Stingers or Buzzcuts.
Any native american indian would have traded his gear for what we have now... But If you would have asked him if you needed gear like we have to kill game.....he would have said...only if your a poor hunter.
You could use the Steelforce Phat Heads they weigh 190grains
Thanks Bowboy. The all-steel construction looks good. Only a 1” cut, but that might work in our favour - penetration is job #1.
WTFOC - any idea what velocity she’s getting with the 525 gr?
I’m not certain, but fairly sure that I would be the happiest guy on Bowsite if I had (and could comfortably draw/shoot accurately) a hot-rod longbow that could throw that much weight as fast as her Contraption does. And I’d probably settle for a recurve if I could pull it off with that….
Corax - I don’t have a chrono, but a speed app suggests approx 200fps.
OK, so ball-parking off of the standard spine calculator, assuming weight at 28” and a 28” DL, 525 gr at 200 fps is a 28” 2117 with a 160 gr broadhead coming off of a high performance longbow of #65.
And in the real world for me with a shorter DL - let’s knock 10% off the power stroke and we’ll assume that the calculator is based on data collected from a shooting machine with a mechanical release, which holds for your wife but is going to cost me some…. So figure we probably ought to be looking for closer to 225 out of the calculator to come out at 200 fps from my fingers, so now we’re up to…. About #80. #82, to be real precise about it.
Still worried? ;)
I’m gonna go tune some arrows for my #62….
Corax, can u keep a secret? I was never worried.
Just wanted some input from the BS crowd - call it bowbender affirming care. LOL There’s a lot of experience out in the trad community and among those who play in the low dw world. This setup of hers is landing almost exactly where I thought it would. As long as she doesn’t centerpunch the shoulder, I do not expect her arrow to even slow down as it goes thru the moose. She and I have a mule deer hunt together in September. As soon as we get back, she’s gonna switch to the 525g arrow. She will have about two weeks to practice with it before moose go-time on October 15th. We have a grandchild due at the end of October, so she has to get it done before November rolls in.
I wouldn’t use a Steelforce phat head
They stop dead in bone where the straight 2 blades tend to break through.
Good grief, BD - were you shooting up-hill??
And I’ll assume you’re pulling our collective leg, seeing as additional penetration on that hit would avail you naught….
I’ve been working up a load for my #62-ish LB…. It calls for a little over 81 pounds spine rating (according to the calculator) and I’m curious to see what I can get out of it according to a chrono, but the nominal performance spec looks pretty solid…
That’s a 2117 with a 150 up front; I also have a recipe for a 400 carbon with 200 up front which is virtually identical, save for the FOC number….
Might actually go to a 350 on this one, bit we’ll see… I’ve been accumulating arrows for this bow for about 5 years now, so hoping to be able to use what I’ve got….
For the record, that elk vertebra was not my shot-its a buddies I was hunting with that didn’t want to take a frontal and shot when the bull turned. He won’t try that again- grin
I had given him those BH’s….I didn’t like the bleeders and knob on the ferrule.
I used a 505 gr Fmj with a 3 blade VPA with a 60# round wheel compound which energy wise would be on par with lighter weight high energy bows…
I shot the bull 2 x and the second time was videoed… the arrow completely disappeared inside the bulls chest cavity…
Good luck WTF! Lots of good heads in that range. Steel Force, Iron Will, VPA, Magnus to name a few. Looking forward to seeing her results. Almost every elk and moose I've shot were with smaller diameter ever fixed heads. If hit remotely in the ball park they were very dead. The other beauty of tracking moose is you almost don't need a blood trail usually. You can track them from the tracks. So like you, I'd be more concerned about accuracy and penetration.
Hey Beendare, curious about your comment on the Phat head - you’re saying that the tapers on the ferrule are too abrupt? There’s no point in me buying Phatheads anyway. Gonna win a V200 3 pack in about a week.
WTF, Re Phat heads; I think in most cases those heads are just fine…but since we are talking about maxing out a low energy setup- Yeah, the big bump out on the Phathead ferrule is going to inhibit penetration….even on ribs and heavy muscle tissue.
Guys with energy to burn compounds don’t notice it but those short chisel heads…and the heads with the short stubby accessory blades plow and have resistance in the wound channel. A smooth tapered cut on contact 2 or 3 blade slices in…not chopping its way in (an exaggeration to help describe it)
Yeah, its being picky….but then I see guys like Lee Lakowski ‘s arrow stop dead on a buffalo (short/wide BH) when I’ve seen my straight 2 blades go through big critters like a hot knife through butter.
Now Lee got enough penetration to kill that buff- some would say its a moot point. I’m in the camp where I want a pass through…and those straight 2 blades give it to me even with my old setup that didn’t make 40 KE