To shoot or not shoot
Elk
There is an elk that is facing a private fence standing on BLM land 5 yards away. The others elk have cross already. You have a shot you can take. You know who the landowners are. Do you shoot or not shoot
Too close for me, if I shot one and it went over after a few hundred yards I'd try to get permission. If I couldn't get permission I'd probably call the game warden to see if they could help. Shooting one that just close seems like you're begging for an issue. You didn't say though, is he standing at a corner of 2 public parcels? Ha ha ha!
If I know the landowners and I know they would let me recover, I shoot. If I know the landowners and I know they wouldn't let me recover, I don't shoot.
Yes, but I center punch a limb I didn't see because he was so close and I'm excited
We go our separate ways
You know he's going to follow the herd. And unless you're capable of executing the perfect spine shot, then you also know he's going to make it more than five yards.
I'm with Bowfreak, it would depend on the landowner's policy on trespassing to look for wounded game.
I know of several spots where hunters line up on fence rows between public and private hoping to catch elk coming off of private alfalfa fields. The landowners also outfit their properties, so typically they don't allow trespassing to look for wounded game. Every year, inevitably a few hunters are denied access. The game warden respects the landowners wishes and won't press the matter. He told me, "if guys are dumb enough to hunt that close to the property lines, they get what they deserve."
Matt
Interesting question. With a WT, I would 100% take the shot. The vast majority of the time a dead-on-his-feet buck will run on his backtrack. I don’t have enough experience with elk to know what to expect from the bull.
WtF, in my experience, a trailing bull, or cow for that matter, is likely to try to follow the herd. I'm sure there are rare exceptions.
Matt
We don't have elk in Vermont so I can't say. I do know most landowners in my area. All would expect me to finish the job if a wounded animal went on to their property. I would feel obligated to let them know if after the fact. If you don't have the same attitude where you live it would probably be a no shot situation.
If I know the land owner it's already been talked about and decided ahead of time.
Been practicing out to 100 all year. Head shot. Wont make it to the fence
I’m not an elk hunter, but I’m with Catscratch. I have that situation where I deer hunt. My box blind is a few yards from a small property that we surround on three sides. The guy that sometimes hunts it is the GW in the county where I live, but not in the county where I lease. I’ve never met him but we are both on the Texas Bowhunter site and we exchange messages from time to time. We have already discussed this scenario and sure enough, two years ago I shot a buck that went to his side of the fence. Luckily the buck only went about 30 yards before piling up, but I still texted him and told him. Of course he said “go get him”.
Before anyone comments about hunting that close to the fence line, know the situation. Point one: I can’t see five yards into that property it is so thick, so any deer I see will be on “my” side. Point two: I love to hunt food plots, but the main revenue of the folks that own this property is timber or oil/gas. We cannot touch a tree that has monetary value so we can only plant areas that are open. Lucky for me that spot had about a half acre that the planted pines did not live, so I located my blind there. For the first three years I hunted it I didn’t think anybody hunted the neighboring property. As a GW, I imagine he has lots of places he can hunt so it’s no problem to him. ;-)
Let's flip the scenario a little. If you were the landowner, and you had never met the hunter, what would you do if he wanted to track a wounded animal that he shot right on your property line?
Matt
That would be a no go for me.
Missouri, fortunately it's never happened to me, yet, but I've thought about it. My neighbor allows permission to several hunters I've never met. If this scenario ever played out, I'd probably allow them access one time only, with a stern warning that it won't ever happen again. It would also depend on their attitude. If they were unapologetic for hunting too close to my property line, it would be a no go for me, too.
Matt
If I’d previously received permission from the landowner, I would take the shot. If I hadn’t previously received permission, then I wouldn’t take the shot.
"Let's flip the scenario a little. If you were the landowner, and you had never met the hunter, what would you do if he wanted to track a wounded animal that he shot right on your property line? Matt"
Grab a couple of celebratory beers and go help him find/drag out his animal. Probably get to know him a little and talk about future scenarios.
Catscratch - good response. Flipping the situation actually helped me decide on my position here.
As the landowner, how large of a ‘no-hunting buffer’ should I expect around my claim? If you say 50 yards, why not 100? Or 250 just to be safe… an elk could easily go further than that … The correct answer is zero.
There are 4 directions the animal could go, and only one of them is bad. I would shoot and hope that the landowner is a reasonable guy.
I shot a whitetail little forward, he went over a mile, off public into private, I back tracked to the truck went around knocked on owners door and he responded with “go get him, those signs are for Poachers”. Back down to where the trail ended followed him All the way back up, across the road. Ended up on him bedded about 45 yards and go another arrow into him. After that the owner got my deer with his tractor and his wife had some hot soup and coffee when me and my old man got back to his house where we parked. We got “lifetime permission” so long as his family still owns the land. Which they’ve owned for over 100 years. They’ll let anyone hunt so long you ask and respect the land and treat it as you’d treat your own. Fortunately haven’t had run ins with people who wouldn’t let me track..
I never was a poke and hope advocate. If there is a good chance the animal will head to private where I don’t have permission to track it, I pass. But that’s me.
Matt
Quite honestly I'm shooting or I wouldn't be there in the 1st place!
ElkNut
I hunt a place near some private. With a rifle I would absolutely shoot him, high in the shoulder. With a bow, not a chance. I already talked with the game warden about it. I am about certain that I would not be allowed to retrieve it. I would have to sit on the public side and watch it rot on private.
Depends on if the day of the week ended with a "y".
The original question stated I know the landowner. So if I know them I would know their tracking policy. I would follow elk nuts philosophy. If I am there, I know the landowner. I then know his tracking policy. I am shooting then.
Are there any western states that the landowner doesn’t have the option to say no? There are definitely whitetail states from the Midwest to the east that allow the recovery without landowner permission.
I'm not shooting if I feel recovery will be an issue. There is nothing wrong with shooting, I just like to keep hunting fun, positive and drama free.
Most elk I have seen hit go the direction they are pointed, especially if the herd is that way. Not always, just most.
“You know who the landowners are”
I need to know if I will have an issue blood trailing the legally shot bull onto the property owners land that I know.
I’m assuming if I’m hunting that close the the fence of the landowner I know, I already know blood trailing won’t be an issue. I would be shooting in that case.
If recovery on the landowners land is a no go, I wouldn’t be hanging out on his fence line.
Like others have stated, I’m not into a bunch of drama.
One of the most important pieces of the puzzle is missing in the original post.
Under the circumstances described in the OP, go ahead and shoot - but use a 338 with good bullets. This is BOW hunting and if you can't follow a blood trail for _whatever_ reason you have no business dropping the string.
I know a rancher that will prosecute anyone that follows a hit elk onto his place.
The consequence/fine for the trespasser is to spend 30 days fencing on the ranch.
If it's in NM, and, the Landowner is on the "Unit Wide" list... I'm shooting!
A CO I spoke with said "If you ever run into a situation like this call me. If they say no maybe I can work something out." He said he's had a lot of luck retrieving deer. I don't think he would advocate trying it so close to a property line though I think he was referring to an animal that ran pretty far after the shot.
Dang Brad......that sounds pretty reasonable.
I had a similar scenario in. CO elk season one year. My leg was in a cast- broken ankle. I was hunting off a road with private 400Y away. I shot a bull right at dark with my arrow hitting the one small vertical twig I didn't see..... that was 100y from the fence...and dang if he didn't jump the fence. Next morning we could see him dead 50y inside the fence, called the GW, Nope, no way that LO would let us recover that bull. I was shocked....GW said nothing he could do.
I guess, if you know the landowner, it depends entirely on what you know about him/her. And it seems that would hold up on either side of the fence.
I don’t know if it’s a (CO) legal requirement or just a “best practice” recommendation, but I remember being informed by someone whom I recall as having some specific authority on the subject that there is/should be kind of a 150 foot (or perhaps 150 yard?) de facto buffer zone around private land. If nothing else, keeping your distance from the line seems like it could save you a lot of grief…
I really don’t think I would want to screw up some of the best days of my year by courting disaster that way; if I knew the owner would say “thanks for checking and go to it”, that’d be one thing. If I could reasonably expect him to be grumpy about it….. one great thing about going hunting is that you get to get away from Grumpy People. Why mess that up?
What I don't understand about a landowner not allowing you to retrieve a critters is if is left to rot, the hunter is likely to go back to hunting near your property lines. They are likely going to bugger the elk even more and possibly kill another bull that frequents their property.
Interesting responses. FYI The landowners have giving me there phone numbers. Situation happen I was just walking back to the truck end of the day, took a short cut. my though was, if i shoot he jumping the fence to follow the others.(maybe or maybe not) . I passed on the shot. I just didn't want the drama and waited for another day. Colorado law is LO can decline you permission and GW cannot force them. which i think stinks .
It would seem to me, any LO would let you recover game- so I’m shooting…. but as I stated above, I found the hard way that is not always the case.
I don’t think you can blame LOs for not wanting word to get out that they are fine with people recovering animals from their property, because that just gives people a reason to set up on their fence line hoping to catch the animals as they head to a refuge area…. That’s sort of giving up some of their own acreage. If it’s a friend of yours who’s taken a just-legal bull or a cow, you probably wouldn’t have any issue, but if it’s That Guy from down the way and there are a lot of inches involved, that could get old FAST.
I guess I could only bring myself to be as happy about allowing entry as I was happy for the other guy that he’d gotten the Elk….
De asemenea, este important pentru noii veni?i la pariuri s? urm?reasc? meciurile. Aceast? abordare îi va ajuta s? se orienteze în dependen?ele dintre linia casei de pariuri ?i evenimentele din lupta real?, ceea ce reprezint? https://betanoro.com/aplicatia/ una dintre cele mai importante cuno?tin?e pentru un juc?tor. Desigur, este nevoie de mult timp, dar pe m?sur? ce experien?a se acumuleaz?, clientul de pariuri poate face mai pu?ine vizion?ri ?i se poate baza mai mult pe statistici.
The only confusing thing for me here is the relationship with the land owner. Goelk posted that he knew who the landowners are, but not that he knew them. If I had no idea about the landowners views on this, or if I knew he wouldn't grant access to look for an animal, then I wouldn't shoot. I also wouldn't hunt right on the fence line if I knew this. If he had given me permission previously or I knew by reputation that he would allow access I'd shoot. If the bull jumped the fence I would call him before I followed, to make sure he or someone else wasn't in there hunting at that time. I have guided on many private properties and we always allow people to follow an animal, but we sometimes require them to wait until we are out of the area before they enter.
Re Knowles - no. Thanks anyway ;-)
Dang Beendare. That would suck. Where I hunt that would probably be what would happen also. I can't imagine being able to see my elk across the fence and just have to let it rot. I wonder what the law is regarding that. Can the hunter be ticketed for anything? And if he continues to hunt and gets another one can he be ticketed?
There should be a law that allows you to retrieve the elk. You did nothing illegal, you shot it on public land. The LO should be ticketed for wanton waste if he disallows recovery. If they don't allow recovery on their land, they shouldn't be allowed to recover theirs on public land. If I were a LO I wouldn't be such a prick.
So for those that shoot and can’t pursue it assuming you hit it do you quit hunting after the lost animal or just figure I wasn’t able to get it due to factors beyond my control and I am going to continue to try to fill this tag
I think hunting fence lines is well within the hunters control.
Sometimes though, despite the best efforts, game is lost. In that case, I would keep hunting.
“ I think hunting fence lines is well within the hunters control.”.
I agree, it is within the hunter’s control. Under this scenario, with the bull 5 yards from the property line, following the herd that has already crossed, you know darn good and well where that bull is going to go. Unless I’d previously obtained permission from the LO, I would never put myself in the position to have to make that decision. IMO, if the LO denies permission after the fact, that’s on the hunter.
Something similar but with a buck. I had been paying a day rate to bowhunt a Lo's property next to public. A day or two after not paying to hunt his place any longer, I hunted the adjacent public. While hunting public, I shot a buck on the property line. I needed to recover the buck on his property and since his ranch house was miles away I decided to recoverer the buck before I would pay him for access. I recovered the buck and then went to tell him about the situation. He was madder than a wet hornet when I told him what had transpired but did a 180 when he realized that I had brought him a nicely wrapped hind quarter and he thanked me for giving it to him so we parted friends. This all happened out of state in Wyoming. Every situation can be a little different but I try to do the right thing after maybe not properly thinking ahead.
Bou'bound, "So for those that shoot and can’t pursue it assuming you hit it do you quit hunting after the lost animal or just figure I wasn’t able to get it due to factors beyond my control and I am going to continue to try to fill this tag"
36 yrs of bowhunting whitetails. I've hit a couple in that tine that I didn't find. Sucks but happens. I've never shot a 2nd one in the same season. I figured putting an arrow into one is the same as signing my tag. If I can't find it that's on me, but I don't keep shooting deer.
If i cant get to an animal to put my tag on it, Im going to keep hunting until i do. Or until I run out of days off to hunt. I do everything legally allowable to fill my tag. I dont take stupid shots at big game though. But , i make the decision on whether its stupid or not. I dont let someone else make it for me.
I’m gonna let it fly. We hunt a property that is right next to a ranch that is “off limits” to us but the owner has always allowed us to recover an animal that jumped the fence but does demand we show him blood on our side of the fence. He once watched me draw on a nice 5 point bull 4 times that we had called off his property without getting my shot. He came down from the ridge above , shook my hand & said that one of his I wasn’t gonna take home. 2 days later I killed that bull at the same location after calling him back in from over a half mile.. He didn’t even want to see the blood, just said go get him. He’s a good guy.
Whether you’re hunting a fenceline or not, is really dependent on how far a wounded animal can run under the greatest distance possible scenario. If they could make it that far before dying, you wanted to close to the fence line be at 5 yards or 5 miles
I have some prime land in great whitetail country of western Wis. I never have or would deny access to recover, from either, private neighbors and some public. I only ask, that you do notify me, or partner, and we will help. You got to be a real prick, not to allow a recovery, from someone that ask. I have met some good hunters thru the years
when is too close not too close? 5 yards? 20 yards? 50 yards? 100 yards? would you feel the same if elk just crossed onto blm land instead of the other way around?
at the end of the day, the game doesnt belong to the landowner so if its legally shot on public land...the landowner should allow recovery.
