I watched that last night, alot of truth to that, so many today are chasing accuracy down rabbit holes when reps behind the bow are the biggest attribute to becoming better the little things make a difference after you’ve mastered your form and shot
He was so angry in that video. Lol. You start with great arrow flight and you’ll have less of a chance to shoot bad groups. Awesome info and good for him for giving the archery world a big FU. Love it.
I listened to on the line podcast with Levi Morgan today while driving and he basically said the same thing ingnorance is bliss he said how he won practically everything in his prime with mediocre equipment and setups but could hold and shoot so good it didn’t matter
It's not about the equipment UNTIL you can shoot well consistently. Too many people - newbies especially - substitute gear-head-ism for solid practice and skill.
It was a good video. I shot a cougar magnum for 20 years. My thinking was that at the time it was the best. Until I achieved what that bow was capable of I had no desire to buy another. The biggest reason I got my mq1 was poundage- I wanted to go from 70 to 60. I have had my mq1 about 20 years now and still love it but I still strive to better my form each time I practice with it.
Reminds me of when I shot trap year ago as a young guy. I had a 870 and would hit 17/25. I thought I needed a new gun until a guy on our team who was very good showed up right from work with no gun. He grabbed my 870 and shot a 25 with it. I realized it was the shooter not the gun at that point.
It is about the equipment first. It doesn't have to be expensive, top shelf stuff, but it has to be capable. Do you think the best shooters shoot poor quality, untuned bows and arrows of the wrong spine? Ensuring he has good capable equipment is where a good shooter starts.
Jeff, I think the point is that until you're getting all you can from your current set-up (yeah, it's tuned, arrows match etc.) then upgrading your rig is less important than practice. The best shooters have shot enough to *know* when an upgrade will actually help. The guy who shoots three months a year and never shoots for score is guessing, and 'hoping' that he can buy more accuracy.
Fly fishing guru Lefty Kreh used to say that only a small percent of anglers could get the full casting range from a really good fly rod. Ain't many archers gonna buy the 'best' and magically turn into 300 scorers. A 295 archer might.
Good video message but 500 arrows in this heat?? I get it. Practice..... a lot. But sheesh.
>>Talent trumps the tool in about every endeavor that exists<< Thanks Bou'. I'm saving that.
Reminds me of when a friend dying of cancer asked me to take his son elk hunting after he died. It was a great hunt, the kid was 17yo and a hiking/hunting beast. Before the trip he came to my house to sort our gear and do a little practicing with the bows. He was shooting a left handed compound. I was shooting a right hand longbow. He was deadly accurate with the compound and asked to try my longbow. He goes from LH compound to a RH longbow and drops three in a row right in the vitals at 25 yards.
I'm going to have to save that video and repost it every time someone argues with me on here about these things. I've been preaching this stuff forever here.
Seems like not that long ago it was the "in" thing to check your string for natural arrow rotation so you would know if you need left or right helical... LOL. Or how about the guys saying you can never have too much helical...LOL
FYI, That is better shooting than 95% of Bowsite members are capable of (when they're not tired)... and it's almost not even archery MOA... That was an 8" group at 70m. and yet there are still several here who claim they can shoot that well with broadheads...
I agree with most of your post but unless the 10 ring on that target is 12” that group was tighter than 8”, I’d give it 5” at best and that’s better shooting than probably 99% of Bowsiters.
Other than that comment, all I can say is if I shot 400-500 arrows per day I’d be my orthopedic surgeon’s best friend…..
Since that video has come out he has added 2 other videos as well. The latest video is going to burst some bubbles for some of the extreme FOC guys.
Charlie said it best. Confidence goes a long ways! Left helical/right helical 10% FOC or 20% FOC it doesn’t matter. But believing in one or the other can build confidence. Just like shooting a certain bow can as well. For years I shot Mathews and shot them well. Decided to shoot a Hoyt for a number of years. Didn’t shoot very well. Switched back to a Mathew’s this year. Got sone practice in and the confidence jumped sky high. Do I think one brand is better than the other. No. But I have more confidence with one brand than the other. So in return I am shooting better again. Even with all my confidence I can’t shoot as good as he does. But a guy can keep trying anyway.
Re-watching, I'll give that group about 6.5". My hand is 8" from tip of thumb to tip of pinky when stretched out. I feel I could just barely touch the two nocks that are farthest apart. However, it seems the points are closer than the nocks on that elk target. I originally typed it as 99% as well, then changed it so I wouldn't get roasted by the members here. :)
Before my shoulders failed me I would put in that much shooting and also spent very little time super tuning my target bows. Hunting bows are a different animal though and must be throwing the arrow with as little wobble as mechanically possible. I can "eyeball" my indoor and outdoor target bow setups but, my hunting bow takes me all day to tune.
He’s making some comments on his last video that need more context. He made a statement contradicting the thought that a heavier arrow won’t retain more speed at distance vs a lighter arrow…..and he said that’s false based on him shooting light vs heavy arrows from the same bow………but he didn’t shoot those arrows all at the same FPS to gather better data. I’d be willing to bet that a heavier arrow (within reason) launched at the same FPS as a lighter arrow will indeed lose speed at a slower rate than a lighter arrow launched at the same FPS. Say measure it at release and then at 70 yards.
Good video and good advice. By the time I got to arrow #100, I'd be shaking like a leaf, let alone holding groups like that at arrow #500. But, in my practice sessions, I'll remember his advice. I do not shoot at 75 yards-ever. 60 yards max. But, most of my practice is 30-50 yards. We tease each other over bow brands and equipment, but if you have quality equipment that is in good shape and tuned, you can concentrate on form and technique and forget about the equipment. Just make the shot.
Boreal, if you’re referring to my post…..I have a different opinion. That data would prove/disprove why a heavier arrow holds momentum/speed at distance in order to out penetrate a lighter arrow in an animal. Thanks.
I really like Dudley met him at TAC and he’s a class act has done a ton for archery, he had a podcast with a guy that has a PHD in arrow flight so to speak, it was an hour and 45min long I listened to it last night mowing my lawn, sorry to say I got nothing out of it, the expert might have spoke 100 words in that time cuz Dud couldn’t stay on topic or let the guy speak without cutting him off, I heard something similar about his seminar at pope and young last year..
Archers are notorious for looking for accuracy in all the wrong places. Terry Ragsdale would win Vegas with arrows kicking wildly out of his bow. It has never been about the equipment for guys that can shoot, for the rest of us mortals it definitely helps. Just like during the time of Christ, some do their best to strain out gnats but continue to swallow camels.
Murph, agreed. Dud, was talking super high level target archery. But, the thing I did get out of the podcast…..which I suspected….was that extreme helical is the same as most other helicals out to about 60-70 yards….and is NOT as accurate at distance. It just makes sense.
Heavier arrows have more momentum at "any" range, simply because they are heavier. Would you rather I hit you over the head with a bowling ball traveling at 1fps or a beach ball traveling at 10fps? That physics is sound should not be up for discussion. The point is that there are real points of diminishing returns. That bowling ball isn't going to hurt you if a can't accurately hit you with it.
The one thing we all need to remember here is that about 90% of this video subject matter is NOT directly related to broadhead tipped arrow flight. John's inner circle of friends and archers spend most of their time shooting long range targets with field points. Preparing for 3D, Field and FITA tournaments. Most of us reading this thread are smart enough to know he wouldn't have the same size groups (centered with the FP's) with fixed BH's on front of the arrow, unless he did some real tuning. I believe this video is directly aimed at the keyboard experts on ArcheryTalk, and not at the guys trying to get FP's and BH's to group together at 30 yards.
He's not wrong however about the practice time... in my humble opinion.
I’m only speculating but I’d bet he’s not shooting 400 to 500 arrows in a day with a 70# bow. He’s obviously in good shape and didn’t mention his bow weight but I’d guess it’s closer to 50# than 70#. All that said I enjoyed the video and have gone down some rabbit holes in the past so some of it hit some past attempts on the head.
At the young age of 64 and after chasing a few of those ghosts, I have to agree. I shoot good equipment that is well tuned. I know when I do everything right that my arrow will be in the bullseye without looking. Problem is I don’t always do everything right. It’s not my equipment. I am my own worst enemy. But then again practice is good therapy.
I had the opportunity to spot for Dudley at the Utah 2022 TAC. Basically he would help people take 110 yd poke at the green Sasquatch. What I witnessed was mind blowing. A gal or guy would walk up with a max 40 or 50 yd pin. He would look at the set up, draw the bow, look at the arrow weight and length. Then after about 10 seconds of computing in his head. He would take a phone photo of the trees above the target. Show them where to aim. Probably 7 out of 10 would hear foam when they shot. Truly incredible to witness that and how cordial he was with everyday archers. Legit guy
After my last post and podcast spectacle I just heard Dudley’s with Darrin Cooper and I was pleasantly entertained with the content I used to read Darrin’s content when he wrote for Eastmans bowhunting journal very knowledgeable guy and the Dud was great at reciprocating in this one, totally redeemed himself lol!!!
